In episode 80, Chris and Emma talked with Heather Anne Keyes, a neuroqueer Gestalt psychotherapist and educator based in Durango, Mexico. Together, we explore the intersections between sexuality, neurodivergence, and development through the lens of Dąbrowski’s theory of positive disintegration.

This conversation invites listeners to think about how we relate to ourselves and others when we step outside of convention. Heather’s insights bridge psychotherapy and lived experience, showing how awareness, compassion, and honesty can transform the way we love, communicate, and grow.

Topics include:

* Rethinking monogamy, non-monogamy, and ethical relationships

* The overlap between giftedness, neurodivergence, and relational complexity

* Gestalt therapy as a practice of awareness, authenticity, and co-creation

* I-Thou relationships and the ethics of seeing others as full humans

* The role of language in communication and self-understanding

* How Buddhist psychology and radical acceptance inform Heather’s work

Heather also shares moving reflections on loss, love, and the lifelong process of learning to “accept pain without turning it into unnecessary suffering.”

Resources from this episode

Heather’s website

Humans of Gestalt (website)

Humans of Gestalt (YouTube)

Connect with us

* Positive Disintegration on Substack

* Visit the Dabrowski Center website

* Facebook

* Instagram

* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel

* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook

* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma

* Email us at [email protected]

* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.

* Find Positive Disintegration Merch

If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 79, Chris and Emma explore the revolutionary idea that positive disintegration extends far beyond individual psychology with guest Richard Edelman, founder of Living Arts Wisdom and a cultural evolution strategist who synthesizes neuroscience, evolutionary philosophy, and trauma-informed practices.

Drawing from interpersonal neurobiology, evolutionary theory, and climate psychology, Richard demonstrates how Dabrowski's developmental framework operates as a fractal pattern—appearing at the individual level, within relationships, across cultural systems, and throughout our species' evolution. This conversation reveals how our current global crises, from climate change to political upheaval, can be understood as manifestations of species-wide disintegration, and how individuals can become conscious participants in determining whether this leads to collapse or transformation.

Key Topics Explored:

* Interpersonal Neurobiology & Integration: Richard explains Dan Siegel's framework connecting mind, brain, and relationships, and how understanding integration helps us better comprehend what disintegrates in positive disintegration.

* The Deep Neuroculture: A fascinating concept describing our collective nervous system as a species: the "mycelial network" beneath the surface of individual consciousness that shapes our biological and cultural niche.

* Species-Wide Disintegration: How humanity is currently experiencing a collective positive disintegration driven by climate crisis, requiring us to transform our relationship with our environment.

* Toxic Enculturation & Cycle Breaking: The process of liberating ourselves from harmful cultural patterns passed down through generations, with special attention to parents who refuse to perpetuate trauma.

* Third Factor as Evolutionary Avatar: Reframing third factor individuals as harbingers of consciousness and relational evolution, essential for species survival.

* Courage and Authenticity: The vital role of bravery in expressing our authentic selves and challenging the status quo, even in seemingly small interpersonal moments.

Connect with Richard Edelman:

* Richard’s website: livingartswisdom.com

* Email: [email protected]

Resources Mentioned:

* Dan Siegel's work on interpersonal neurobiology

* Iain McGilchrist's book "The Master and His Emissary"

* Internal Family Systems (IFS)

* Climate Psychology Alliance

* Enactivism and Francisco Varela

* Britt Wray’s Unthinkable (the book: Generation Dread)

* The Third Factor (Dabrowski Center website)

This episode offers a powerful reframe of the theory of positive disintegration, showing how individual transformation is intimately connected to the larger evolutionary challenges facing humanity. Richard's synthesis of multiple frameworks provides both theoretical depth and practical pathways for those seeking to navigate—and actively participate in shaping—our current polycrisis toward positive transformation.

Connect with us

* Positive Disintegration on Substack

* Visit the Dabrowski Center website

* Facebook

* Instagram

* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel

* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook

* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma

* Email us at [email protected]

* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.

* Find Positive Disintegration Merch

If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 78, we continued our rich and engaging conversation with Autum Romano, an educator, bodyworker, and author from Colorado Springs, CO. This is the second in a two-part conversation exploring polyvagal theory and its relevance to personality development, healing, and human connection.

We deepen our exploration of polyvagal theory and its connections with developmental experience, neurodivergence, and positive disintegration.

Together, we unpack:

* How neuroception and energetic sensitivity shape relational dynamics

* The intersection of PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance), trauma, and cues of safety

* How overexcitabilities can become dynamisms that help us grow in relationship

* The role of relationships in co-regulation, especially for intense and neurodivergent individuals

* Why true connection is essential to healing and development—and how hard it is to cultivate in unsafe environments

Chris reflects on their own experience as a gifted PDAer, highlighting how sensitivity to energy and autonomy needs has shaped their emotional regulation and social interactions. Autum and Emma both offer powerful insights about learning to tune into not just how others affect us, but how we impact them, too.

This episode is rich with hard-earned wisdom about nervous system safety, embodied growth, and the power of safe, attuned relationships. If you’ve ever felt “too much,” struggled with co-regulation, or wondered how to find the green zone in your life—this one’s for you.

Links from this episode

Autum’s website

Body Wisdom and the Polyvagal Theory (Autum’s book)

PDA: Resistance and Resilience podcast with Marni Kammersell and Chris Wells

Episode 56: Autoethnography for Personal Growth

Living with Intensity

PDA North America

Intense World Theory

Dr. Stephen Porges, Safe and Sound Protocol

Connect with us

* Positive Disintegration on Substack

* Visit the Dabrowski Center website

* Facebook

* Instagram

* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel

* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook

* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma

* Email us at [email protected]

* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.

* Find Positive Disintegration Merch

If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 77, Chris and Emma were joined by Autum Romano, an educator, bodyworker, and author from Colorado Springs, CO. This is the first in a two-part conversation exploring polyvagal theory and its relevance to personality development, healing, and human connection.

Autum brings 28+ years of experience in the healing arts and a rich understanding of the nervous system. Together, we dive into the basics of polyvagal theory—including the three autonomic states (ventral, sympathetic, and dorsal), neuroception, and co-regulation—and connect it with Dąbrowski’s theory of positive disintegration.

Topics include:

* How our nervous system shapes our experience and reactions

* Using body-based tools for nervous system regulation

* Understanding fight, flight, and freeze responses in relationships

* Recognizing your dominant pattern and learning to move between states

* How safety, connection, and emotional healing are intertwined

* The overlap between polyvagal theory and Dabrowskian development

* Personal stories about trauma responses, self-awareness, and growth

Autum’s insights offer a compassionate, grounded lens on how to support development—not by avoiding dysregulation, but by learning to move through it with awareness. Whether you’re new to polyvagal theory or looking to deepen your understanding, this episode offers something valuable.

Stay tuned for Part 2, where the conversation continues.

Links from this episode

Autum’s website

Body Wisdom and the Polyvagal Theory

Connect with us

* Positive Disintegration on Substack

* Visit the Dabrowski Center website

* Facebook

* Instagram

* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel

* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook

* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma

* Email us at [email protected]

* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.

* Find Positive Disintegration Merch

If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In this special crossover episode, we’re sharing Episode 3 of cosmic cheer squad—our new podcast from the Positive Disintegration Network. Chris and Bee are joined by a very special guest: Emma Nicholson, co-host of Positive Disintegration, for an in-person, around-the-table conversation recorded in Madison, Wisconsin.

Together, they reflect on:

* How they became friends and collaborators through the theory of positive disintegration

* The idea of cosmic pockets as a way to hold intense feelings until it’s safe to process them

* Inner critics, intrusive thoughts, and how to rewrite old narratives

* Parenting yourself while raising others

* Emotional trampolines, anti-cults, and resisting illegitimate authority

* Why the Gravitron might be the perfect metaphor for development

Plus: Bee’s legendary toffee, Aussie accent jokes, trench coat metaphors, and the beginnings of a truly cozy counterculture.

💫 It’s part reunion, part origin story, and all heart. Come sit with us.

Links from this episode

Find Emma online:

* Tragic Gift (blog)

* Adults with Overexcitabilities (YouTube)

* Adults with Overexcitabilities (Facebook group)

* Positive Disintegration (Instagram)

We referenced:

* Cosmic Pocket

* Sneaky Stimming

Positive Disintegration:

* Episode 33: A Personal Journey of Self-Discovery, with David Sweeney

* Episode 37: Self-Directed Education with Marni Kammersell

In Episode 75, Chris and Emma were joined by Gordon Smith, a Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselor, Coach, and Creative from Gifted and Growing in Asheville, NC. Together, they explore how community, creativity, and authenticity support the journey of positive disintegration.

Gordon shares how his rediscovery of giftedness helped him make sense of his life and deepen his work with clients. The conversation dives into the challenges of unmasking in front of others—especially family—and how the safety of group spaces can empower people to become more fully themselves. Gordon introduces his unique group offerings and the powerful “Magnum Opus” exercise that facilitates self-discovery through poetry and flow state.

This episode touches on key Dabrowskian themes, including the transformation of internalized shame, the shedding of masks, the role of community in personal growth, and how creative practices support authenticity. We reflect on how our disintegrations have unfolded and offer heartfelt encouragement for listeners on their journeys.

Topics Include:

* Gordon’s journey back to giftedness and the theory of positive disintegration

* The importance of self-knowing and depathologizing difference

* Creating safe spaces for unmasking and self-expression

* Using creativity and community to support growth

* Reflections on grief, parenting, and nervous system healing

* How discovering language for our experiences can be transformative

Resources from this episode

* Visit Gordon’s website: Giftedandgrowing.org

* Gordon Smith, LPC (Facebook)

* More about Yunasa

Connect with us

* Positive Disintegration on Substack

* Visit the Dabrowski Center website

* Facebook

* Instagram

* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel

* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook

* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma

* Email us at [email protected]

* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.

* Find Positive Disintegration Merch

If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

Episode 74 includes Part 2 of our very first in-person podcast special. After years of collaborating across continents, Chris and Emma finally sat down together face-to-face in Madison, Wisconsin. In this spontaneous, laughter-filled continuation, we’re joined by Bee Mayhew and Pam Ryan for a warm and off-the-cuff conversation about friendship, imagination, healing, and what it really means to be ourselves.

In this episode:

* The power of community and co-regulation for people who’ve long felt “too much”

* What happens when deep thinkers stop masking and start mirroring each other

* A kitchen full of neurodivergent magic and mirroring

* Finding safety, resonance, and spiritual alignment in community

* From shared values to shaping new realities—how our friendships have become frameworks

We reflect on how much we’ve grown, how much we’ve healed, and how profoundly we’ve changed by allowing ourselves to show up as our true selves, together.

Big news: Chris and Bee have launched a brand new podcast together—✨ cosmic cheer squad ✨

Visit cosmic cheer squad on Substack

Follow @cosmiccheersquad on Instagram

It’s a show blending resistance, storytelling, transformation, and soul-friend energy.

Links from this episode

Bee’s Substack:

* Pragmagination

Pam’s groups on Facebook:

* Rogue Valley Brainery & Ludoteca

* Voodoodleydooers

Connect with us

* Positive Disintegration on Substack

* Visit the Dabrowski Center website

* Facebook

* Instagram

* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel

* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook

* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma

* Email us at [email protected]

* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.

* Find Positive Disintegration Merch

If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

Welcome to a very special episode of Positive Disintegration! For the first time ever, Chris and Emma sat down together in person to record—not virtually, not over Zoom or SquadCast, but face to face in the heart of Madison, Wisconsin. In this warm and unscripted special, we reflect on our friendship, the podcast’s evolution, and the joy (and awkwardness!) of finally being in the same room after three years of collaboration.

In this episode:

* Behind-the-scenes stories from Emma’s trip to the U.S.

* Meeting Michael Piechowski and getting hosted with tea and cookies

* Visiting the Henry Vilas Zoo, hanging out with James, Jason, and Jack—and, of course, the infamous hound dog, Champ

* Reflections on growth, healing, and laying new paths

* Creating the Positive Disintegration Network and dreaming forward into 2025

* How their work and friendship have evolved over years of podcasting together

* Early glimpses of new projects: cosmic cheer squad and PDA: Resistance and Resilience

✨ This is part one of a two-part special to our listeners—an intimate conversation full of laughter, reflection, and visioning for what’s next.

Links from this episode

Tragic Gift

Adults with Overexcitabilities

Upcoming podcasts Chris mentioned:

The cosmic cheer squad podcast is coming soon with Bee Mayhew from pragmagination

PDA: Resistance & Resilience is coming later this spring with Marni Kammersell from Wandering Brightly

Connect with us

* Positive Disintegration on Substack

* Visit the Dabrowski Center website

* Facebook

* Instagram

* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel

* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook

* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma

* Email us at [email protected]

* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.

* Find Positive Disintegration Merch

If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

In episode 72, Chris and Emma talked with Dr. Lil Jedynak—a memoir writing coach, multi-potential creative, and gifted adult—who helps people tell their life stories through the lens of autoethnography.

Lil shares her journey of self-discovery, from uncovering her giftedness at 60 to finding new frameworks for understanding her life, such as Dąbrowski’s Theory of Positive Disintegration. We explore how writing became a tool for her healing, integration, and personal growth and how she now guides others on their own storytelling paths.

We dive into:

* How early experiences of invisibility, perfectionism, and cultural expectations shaped Lil’s understanding of her giftedness.

* The role of autoethnography in making sense of one’s life story and deepening self-awareness.

* The interplay between tall poppy syndrome, perfectionism, and the fear of failure.

* The power of embracing past struggles as part of personal development.

* How creativity, intuition, and personal reflection help gifted individuals integrate their complex identities.

* Alternative ways to process and express self-discovery beyond writing.

This conversation is full of insight into the lived experience of positive disintegration and how we can turn our personal narratives into sources of strength. Whether you love to write or prefer other forms of self-expression, there are many ways to make meaning of your story. Join us for an inspiring discussion that celebrates authenticity, creativity, and the art of storytelling.

Resources from this episode

* Website: drlilconsults.com

* Substack: Lil’s Substack

* Lil’s session from DC2024 on YouTube: Fame and Fragility

Join us at the 2025 International Symposium on Autoethnography and Narrative

People mentioned:

Lotte van Lith — A Lot of Complexity & Episode 9

Jennifer Harvey Sallin — InterGifted & Episode 23

Sheldon Gay — I Must Be BUG'N Pod & Episode 63

Books mentioned:

* Living with Intensity – Susan Daniels & Michael M. Piechowski

* Personality Shaping Through Positive Disintegration – Kazimierz Dabrowski

* Bright Adults: Uniqueness & Belonging Across the Lifespan – Ellen Fiedler

* Writing as a Way of Healing – Louise DeSalvo

Connect with us

* Positive Disintegration on Substack

* Visit the Dabrowski Center website

* Facebook

* Instagram

* The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel

* Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook

* The Tragic Gift blog by Emma

* Email us at [email protected]

* Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit.

* Find Positive Disintegration Merch

If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!

*Content Warning: This episode contains a discussion about suicide, which may be distressing to some listeners. Click here for resources.

In episode 71, Chris and Emma continue the conversation with Dr. Stacey Freedenthal, a suicidologist, therapist, author, and professor at the University of Denver.

In this second installment, we delve deeper into the complexities of suicidality, exploring chronic suicidal thoughts and the stigma surrounding suicide. We talk more about what to say and what not to say to someone who is suicidal and how to support those in emotional pain.

Stacey shares valuable insights and practical resources for those navigating these challenging experiences. Chris and Emma reflect on their personal journeys and the power of connection in moments of despair.

This candid discussion provides essential perspectives for anyone seeking to better understand suicide, reduce stigma, and foster compassion.

Resources from this Episode

Speaking of Suicide

StaceyFreedenthal.com

Helping the Suicidal Person: Tips and Techniques for Professionals (book for professionals)

Loving Someone with Suicidal Thoughts: What Family, Friends, and Partners Can Say and Do (book for laypeople)

Frank King, A Matter of Laugh or Death (YouTube)

r/SuicideWatch (Reddit)

ChronicSuicideSupport.com

Alternatives to Suicide

WarmLine

Wildflower Alliance

Live Through This

Chris’s story on Live Through This (Interview date: February 26, 2015, Denver, CO)

Connect with us

Positive Disintegration on Substack

Visit the Dabrowski Center website

Facebook

Instagram

The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel

Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook

The Tragic Gift blog by Emma

Email us at [email protected]

Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization.

Find Positive Disintegration Merch

If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you!