Primary & Secondary Podcast

Originally recorded December 7, 2016. This archival episode returns with a new introduction and sponsor acknowledgments. Equipment references, course schedules, and personal updates in the original conversation reflect that period.P&S ModCast 76 features Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics in a wide-ranging discussion about defensive firearms instruction, pistol red dots, developing shooting skill, and the responsibility that comes with teaching others.

The conversation brings together military, law-enforcement, competition, and firearms-industry perspectives.The recurring question is why. Why teach a technique? Why choose a particular piece of equipment? What does a drill actually measure, and how does that result relate to the situation a student is preparing for? Across more than three hours, the panel examines how better explanations, honest feedback, and a willingness to reconsider established habits can improve both individual performance and training programs.

Host: Matt Landfair

Panel:
Steven A.
Aaron Cowan
Tim Herron
Scott Jedlinski
Rick Labistre
Matt Meckley
Adrian O.
Adam Pini
Matt W.

Episode Sponsors:

Blue Alpha Belts:
https://www.bluealphabelts.com/

High Desert Cartridge: https://highdesertcartridge.com/

PHLster educational content: https://www.youtube.com/@PHLster

Our Patreon can be found here:
https://www.patreon.com/PrimaryandSecondary

Primary & Secondary:
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P&S ModCast 468 — Defensive Display Done Right

What separates a justified defensive firearm display from brandishing, intimidation, or an unnecessary escalation? And what happens when displaying a firearm successfully stops an attack—but the defender shoots anyway?

Host Matt Landfair joins firearms instructor Steve Moses, litigation consultant Shawn Vincent, and criminal defense attorney Don West for a discussion of defensive firearm displays, sound judgment, and the legal consequences that can follow a self-defense encounter.

Drawing on their training and case experience, the panel examines how an armed defender’s decisions look to investigators, prosecutors, witnesses, and juries. The conversation connects firearm handling and threat assessment with the broader responsibility to avoid unnecessary conflict and recognize when a threat has changed.

Topics include:

• Defensive display versus brandishing, and why circumstances and state law matter.
• The distinction between displaying a firearm, pointing it at someone, and firing it.
• Recognizing an imminent threat and reassessing when an aggressor stops or retreats.
• Breaking contact, creating distance, and avoiding a return to the confrontation.
• How ego, anger, and the desire to have the last word can undermine self-defense.
• Safe gun handling, muzzle direction, trigger-finger discipline, and maintaining visibility of a potential attacker’s hands.
• Verbal boundaries, managing unknown contacts, and preparing a response before an emergency.
• Training beyond shooting drills, including decisions about when to draw—and when to stop.
• OC spray and other options between verbal commands and a firearm.
• The tactical risks and legal consequences of warning shots.
• Calling 911, video evidence, witness accounts, and the importance of context.
• Jury selection, the presentation of a self-defense claim, and the financial and personal costs of prosecution.
• How social-media advice, firearm slogans, and prior statements can influence decisions and complicate a defense.

Real-World Cases:

Michael Drejka — The panel examines the Florida parking-lot shooting and the critical distinction between drawing a firearm to stop an assault and firing after the aggressor begins backing away.
Sheri McClatchy — A laundromat attendant breaks contact after an assault, calls 911, and displays a firearm when the attacker approaches again. The panel uses this encounter to discuss resolving a threat without firing.
Alexander Weiss — A Minnesota traffic incident illustrates the risks of retrieving a firearm and returning to a confrontation, along with the difficulty of using a gun to control another person’s behavior.
Jeffrey Smith and Arthur Kohn III — A Michigan gas-station confrontation highlights how returning to an argument and introducing a firearm can compromise a subsequent self-defense claim.
Dean Keller and Jeffrey Weigle — An Indiana neighbor dispute demonstrates how displaying a firearm can cause another armed person to perceive an immediate threat, with consequences for both physical safety and criminal liability.
Mark and Patricia McCloskey — The panel discusses firearm handling, defensive positioning, and the consequences of pointing weapons during the confrontation outside their Missouri home.
Kyle Carruth and Chad Read — The Lubbock, Texas, shooting provides another example for discussing disengagement, retrieving a firearm, and returning to a dispute.

The central theme is continual judgment: circumstances change, and a defender must respond to the threat that exists at that moment. A firearm display that ends an attack does not automatically justify a shot afterward. Avoidance, restraint, competent handling, and the ability to explain reasonable decisions all matter.

Recorded September 29, 2026.

Host:
Matt Landfair
Panel:
Steve Moses
Shawn Vincent
Don West

Guest Resources:
CCW Safe — The Armed Defender’s Dilemma, 36 Lessons for Armed Defenders, and the In

Self Defense podcast:
https://ccwsafe.com/

Episode Sponsors:
High Desert Cartridge Company
https://highdesertcartridge.com/

PHLster Educational Content — practical, brand-agnostic guidance on concealment and concealed carry. Explore their YouTube channel and the PHLster Concealment Workshop on
Facebook: https://www.youtube.com/@PHLster

Blue Alpha — belts and supporting equipment for concealed carry, duty, and training:
https://www.bluealphabelts.com/

Support Primary & Secondary:
https://www.patreon.com/PrimaryandSecondary

Primary & Secondary:
Website: https://primaryandsecondary.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/primaryandsecondary/
Forum: https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/
Complete Audio Podcasts: https://www.spreaker.com/show/primary-secondary-podcast

This discussion provides general education. Self-defense laws vary by jurisdiction, and individual incidents require analysis of their specific facts.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/primary-secondary-podcast--2585240/support.

This second half broadens into mindset, fieldcraft, capability, and culture. The panel emphasizes that the job is uncomfortable, demanding, and often poorly supported; the people who last are driven by responsibility and resilience rather than the identity or appearance of being a sniper.

They cover moving-target work, practical accuracy standards, realistic expectations for rifles and ammunition, compact precision rifles for urban or patrol use, and the value of competition and cross-training with civilian and law-enforcement shooters. The discussion also addresses risk-averse training cultures, maintaining a warfighting focus, healthy coping skills, and the importance of asking for help before stress becomes a failure point.


Host: Matt Landfair
Panel:
Alex Hartmann
Rick Labistre
Matt Meckley
Tarrol Peterson
Adam Wilson

Episode Sponsors:
Blue Alpha Belts: https://www.bluealphabelts.com/
High Desert Cartridge: https://highdesertcartridge.com/
PHLster educational content: https://www.youtube.com/@PHLster

Our Patreon can be found here:
https://www.patreon.com/PrimaryandSecondary

Primary & Secondary:
Website: https://primaryandsecondary.com/
Facebook: https://facebook.com/primaryandsecondary/
Forum: https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum
Complete Audio Podcasts: https://spreaker.com/show/primary-secondary-podcast
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The first half focuses on what actually makes a sniper program viable: selecting and developing the right people, earning command trust, building sustainable training, and preserving institutional knowledge instead of relying on one motivated individual. The panel talks through the difference between being assigned a precision-rifle role and becoming genuinely capable at it.

A major thread is honest performance validation. They argue for dry practice, meaningful round counts, 10-round groups rather than flattering three-shot groups, and walk-back confirmation—not simply dialing a rifle to distance and declaring it ready. They also discuss the friction created by limited time, ammunition, funding, training venues, and organizational priorities.

Host: Matt Landfair
Panel:
Alex Hartmann
Rick Labistre
Matt Meckley
Tarrol Peterson
Adam Wilson

Episode Sponsors:
Blue Alpha Belts: https://www.bluealphabelts.com/
High Desert Cartridge: https://highdesertcartridge.com/
PHLster educational content: https://www.youtube.com/@PHLster

Our Patreon can be found here:
https://www.patreon.com/PrimaryandSecondary

Primary & Secondary:
Website: https://primaryandsecondary.com/
Facebook: https://facebook.com/primaryandsecondary/
Forum: https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum
Complete Audio Podcasts: https://spreaker.com/show/primary-secondary-podcast
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P&S ModCast

Matt Landfair is joined by Jon Canipe, Bryan Eastridge, and Nate Osborne for a wide-ranging discussion of small-batch reloading. The panel covers specialty and obsolete cartridges, revolver loads, cast bullets, coatings, practical equipment choices, component fit, load development, and why handloading remains useful even when factory ammunition is available.

Episode Sponsors:
Blue Alpha Belts: https://www.bluealphabelts.com/
High Desert Cartridge: https://highdesertcartridge.com/
PHLster educational content: https://www.youtube.com/@PHLster

Our Patreon can be found here:
https://www.patreon.com/PrimaryandSecondary

Primary & Secondary:
Website: https://primaryandsecondary.com/
Facebook: https://facebook.com/primaryandsecondary/
Forum: https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum
Complete Audio Podcasts: https://spreaker.com/show/primary-secondary-podcast
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Primary & Secondary ModCast 78 — Part 3
Recorded December 4, 2016

Part 3 closes out this wide-ranging P&S roundtable with a discussion of political messaging, public discourse, military recruiting, education, and the importance of connecting classroom learning to real-world use.

The panel talks through how experience, mentorship, and clear explanations can help people understand why foundational skills matter. From recruiting conversations to practical examples drawn from military service, the discussion returns to the value of giving people useful context instead of simply expecting them to accept information at face value.

As an archival recording, some references reflect the time it was recorded.

Host:
Matt Landfair

Panel:
SA
Matt Meckley
AO
Chuck Pressburg as Roland
MW

Support Primary & Secondary:
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Primary & Secondary:
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Primary & Secondary ModCast 78 — Part 2
Recorded December 4, 2016

In Part 2, the panel continues its wide-ranging discussion with a closer look at military culture, leadership, institutional priorities, and the realities of preparing people for demanding work.

The conversation also covers practical equipment considerations, including rifle setup, optics placement, night-vision use, and the importance of fitting a weapon system to the person using it. Along the way, the panel returns to a recurring P&S theme: effective instruction starts with understanding the audience, building useful context, and giving people a foundation they can continue to develop on their own.

As an archival recording, this episode includes language and references that reflect the time it was recorded.

Host:
Matt Landfair
Panel:
SA
Matt Meckley
AO
Chuck Pressburg as Roland
MW

Support Primary & Secondary:
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Primary & Secondary:
Website: https://primaryandsecondary.com/
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Primary & Secondary ModCast 78 — Part 1
Recorded December 4, 2016

This archival episode is a wide-ranging panel conversation covering Primary & Secondary community platforms, firearms and equipment setup, the value of having the right tools for the job, and the realities of teaching and learning.

The discussion shifts into instructor development: how to build training around the students in front of you, present foundational material without talking down to experienced people, and give students the tools to continue improving after class. The panel also discusses the time, effort, and responsibility involved in providing worthwhile instruction—particularly for officers and working people who invest their own money and limited time into training.

As an archival recording, some references reflect the time it was recorded.

Host:
Matt Landfair
Panel:
SA
Matt Meckley
AO
Chuck Pressburg as Roland
MW

Support Primary & Secondary:
https://www.patreon.com/PrimaryandSecondary

Primary & Secondary:
Website: https://primaryandsecondary.com/
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Primary & Secondary ModCast

Modern Minuteman is presented by Shane Kerwin through Personal Survival Solutions. This episode focuses on the panel’s recent experience with the course and uses the after-action-review format to examine what the training demanded, what the students learned, and how structured instruction exposes gaps that ordinary practice may leave hidden.

An AAR is most useful when it moves beyond whether an event was enjoyable. The practical questions are what worked, what did not, which assumptions survived contact with the course, and what should change afterward. Those lessons help listeners evaluate their own preparedness and decide where training, equipment, or decision-making needs more attention.


Host: Matt Landfair

Panel:
Craig Caudill
Shane Kerwin
Jess M.
Doc Z.

Episode Sponsors:
High Desert Cartridge
PHLster educational content: https://www.youtube.com/@PHLster

Our Patreon can be found here:
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Primary & Secondary:
Website: https://primaryandsecondary.com/
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Primary & Secondary ModCast part two originally recorded 12/09/2016

The panel discusses Roland aka Chuck Pressburg.

Host:
Matt Landfair

Panel:
Michael Hueser
Scott Jedlinski
Walt Kowalski
Matt Meckley
Chuck Pressburg

Our Patreon can be found here:
https://www.patreon.com/PrimaryandSecondary

Primary & Secondary:
Website: https://primaryandsecondary.com/
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