In this episode, AJ and Gabby take a break from their regular programming to discuss the sale of public lands as part of the federal budget reconciliation bill. 

On June 11, 2025, the Energy and Natural Resources Committee Hearing to Examine the President’s Budget Request for the Department of the Interior for Fiscal Year 2026 took place. In it, senators discuss “The “Mandatory Disposal of Bureau of Land Management Land And National Forest System Land for Housing,” which would require the sale of 2-3 million acres of Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land and U.S. Forest Service (USFS) land within a five year period.

BLM and USFS land is public land—YOUR land. Why are senators trying to include the sale of our land as part of the budget reconciliation bill? Some theorize that it’s part of a systematic, long-term approach to shift public lands towards private control. The current reconciliation effort isn’t an isolated policy—it’s the culmination of decades of ideological moves.

If you care about the American public retaining access to the land we collectively own, now is the time to speak up. Contact your senators via social media, phone, email, or snail mail and tell them what you think. Three million acres of your lands are on the line.

Listen to past episodes here: Project Upland Podcast

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Links

• Watch the Senate hearing here.
• Read “More Details Emerge Around the Public Land Sale Bill — and It’s Worse Than You Think” by Andrew McKean here.  
• This ArcGIS map visualizes the 250+ million acres of public lands eligible for sale in the Senate budget reconciliation package.

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How an 1885 dissection unraveled a hidden story about invasive worms and the migration routes of the American woodcock in North America.

In 1887, Frederick Webster, a taxidermist from Washington, D.C., wrote a short article in a scientific journal. In it, he described dissecting a woodcock from Martha’s Vineyard that had a crop filled entirely with ferns. Why did this woodcock stray from its usual diet of invertebrates? A.J. and Gabby, hosts of the Project Upland Podcast, search for the answer—only to uncover the surprising story of invasive worms in North America. 

Together with woodcock researcher Dr. Amber Roth and soil ecologist Dr. Peter Groffman, we learn how eco-engineering has destroyed native landscapes, contributed to the spread of ticks and invasive plants, and more. From woodcock migration during the Ice Age to the tobacco trade, this investigation is full of twists and turns.

Listen to past episodes here: Project Upland Podcast

If you want to support independent journalism, check out the Project Upland Podcast Patreon.

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In this episode, Gabby and AJ explore the mystery of ruffed grouse drumming—starting in the 1700s, when naturalists first theorized about the sound, and tracing the evolution of human technology that finally unlocked the truth behind this unique behavior. Along the way, they talk to biologist Alaina Roth, Wisconsin’s statewide ruffed grouse specialist, who sheds light on grouse life history, drumming counts, and how technology is transforming wildlife surveys. This episode covers everything from historical myths and early scientific discoveries using cameras to modern AI-driven drumming surveys and the critical role of habitat in grouse conservation.

Listen to past episodes here: Project Upland Podcast

If you want to support independent journalism, check out the Project Upland Podcast Patreon.

You can also subscribe to the Project Upland Podcast on:

• Amazon Music
• Apple
• Spotify
• YouTube

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In this episode, Gabby and AJ talk about the North American Upland Bird Hunting Survey, which has been conducted annually since 2018. The eighth iteration of this survey explores everything from hunting dogs and shotguns to upland bird species—and just how much and how people hunt them. The 2025 edition includes an expanded opinion section covering current and historical policies, environmental issues, and political leanings. Learn how hard the Project Upland community hunts, all the way to their favorite dog breeds.

Listen to past episodes here: Project Upland Podcast

If you want to support independent journalism, check out the Project Upland Podcast Patreon.

You can also subscribe to the Project Upland Podcast on:

• Amazon Music
• Apple
• Spotify
• YouTube

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In this episode, Gabby and AJ talk to Mark Avery, author of A Message from Martha. As a biologist and conservationist, Mark takes us back in time to reconstruct the biology, habitat, and final era of the Passenger Pigeon. The Passenger Pigeon's extinction is one of the most dramatic extinction stories of the 20th century, resulting in the loss of the most numerous bird on Earth. This episode explores everything from nesting biology and historical accounts to habitat destruction and the last Passenger Pigeon to die in captivity at the Cincinnati Zoo—Martha.

Listen to past episodes here: Project Upland Podcast

If you want to support independent journalism, check out the Project Upland Podcast Patreon.

You can also subscribe to the Project Upland Podcast on:

• Amazon Music
• Apple
• Spotify
• YouTube

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In this episode, Gabby and AJ talk to Associate Professor and Rangeland Wildlife Extension Specialist at Utah State University, Dave Dahlgren. As a sage grouse researcher and scientist, Dave explores the threat of cheatgrass and fire in the Great Basin to habitat. He also shares his experience with changing technology in radio telemetry and GPS tracking and how his pointing dogs have played a role in his research. Lastly, we discuss one of the most influential and limiting factors in sage grouse survival: area fidelity.

This is the second episode of a two-part series about sage grouse in Utah.

Listen to: Great Basin Sage Grouse Part One

If you want to support independent journalism, check out the Project Upland Podcast Patreon.

Clarification Note
After the release of this episode, Dr. Dahlgren provided helpful feedback to clarify a couple of technical points related to telemetry and radio-marking methods:

• Rump-Mount vs. Backpack GPS Radios: In this episode, we referred to GPS radio units used in research. It’s important to note that rump-mount GPS radios, which are used in our discussion, secure around the legs and hips. Backpack-style radios, in contrast, have straps that go around the wings and breast. Backpack-style marking has been shown to have significant negative effects on survival in most gamebird research.
• Telemetry Terminology: The term telemetry refers to all radio-marking and monitoring activities with wildlife, including GPS technology. In some cases, we might specify “GPS telemetry” or “VHF telemetry” to distinguish between newer GPS-based tracking and the older method involving ground or aerial tracking.

These distinctions don’t impact the main takeaways of the episode, but we appreciate the additional insights from experts in the field.

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In this episode, Gabby and AJ talk to Utah-based sage grouse expert Dave Dahlgren. As a sage grouse researcher and biologist, Dave teaches us about huge amounts of habitat sage grouse need to survive and explains human-centric issues impacting their continued existence.

This is the first episode of a two-part series about sage grouse in Utah.

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Read Clint Wirick's article "Are Pinyon Jays the Next Sage Grouse?"

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Project Upland presents the new Project Upland Podcast, a cinematic and science-based production that delivers on the independent storytelling you have come to love. 

Cohosts AJ DeRosa and Gabby Zaldumbide learn from researchers, biologists, and subject matter experts about birds, nature, conservation, dogs, and more. 

Join us as we travel into the deepest, most obscure, and nerdiest realms of the uplands.

After all, these are your stories.

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The Project Upland Podcast Patreon

Support the show