PennHIP for the Win on Reducing Incidence of Hip Dysplasia

[caption id="attachment_14411" align="alignleft" width="399"] Dr. Karen Potter showing one of her German Wirehaired Pointers.[/caption]

Host Laura Reeves is joined by Dr. Karen Potter to discuss the value of PennHIP evaluations to reduce the incidence of hip dysplasia in a breeding program.

“While yes, I do PennHIP my dogs,” Potter said, “I typically will go back and still get an OFA score on them. So I have both avenues to look at as I'm going through my breeding. With Penn Hip, we're able to have a number that I can use in order to then go forward with breeding and that gives me an idea of if I have a dog with a higher laxity score to then breed that to a dog with a lower laxity score to try to continue to bring the number down in the offspring trying to improve the quality.

“What the PennHIP program has done is they determined the laxity score, which is how much the hip joint is able to luxate during movement. We all know the hip is a ball and socket joint and the laxity being how much the ball can come out of the socket. And so when that ball comes out of the socket, in each step, they found that those forces and each concussive force is what we then develop osteoarthritis from.

“When we're looking at a PennHIP score, we're looking for a score that is smaller, lower numbers are better. So it's a distraction value saying this is how much we can passively distract the hip from the socket. And I say passively because we're doing this while the dogs are under heavy sedation or anesthesia.”

Listen in to take a deep dive into the world of PennHIP scores, how the test works, what it tells breeders and how to use the scores in a breeding program.

For additional information on the studies done on the efficacy of this testing method check out this LINK.

Episode 700: Re-imagining Dog Shows and Dog Breeding

It’s become a tradition here at Pure Dog Talk to celebrate the important milestones. Episode 700 feels surreal to me! Since November of 2016, NINE years, I’ve been hopping in the van with you guys for your road trips, joining you on the treadmill and the lawnmower, at the grooming table and discussions around the dinner table. Crazy talk!

But, here we are. This year we even kicked off a new adventure with the Marty and Laura Show, reaching out to the general public, your puppy buyers and your cousin’s uncle’s girlfriend with trusted, knowledgeable information on all things pet health.

We’ve also developed the Pedigrees to Pups Seminar series and are actively in process of making those available as courses on demand.

I’ve got a new audio book about to hit the shelves and a long list of really excellent conversations upcoming. So the future looks bright in podcastlandia.

I’m just a little concerned I’m going to be talking to myself here eventually. As I watch the sport of dog shows dwindle, litter registrations drop off and dog breeders retire, age out, drop out and give up, it gives me pause for our future.

I had a call recently from a long time judge who shared my concerns about the “future of the sport.” It’s not a new conversation. It’s been around for at least the last 25 years. And we’re still here chugging along. A little more spread thin with lots and lots and lots of small shows. A little greyer and gimpier. My friend discussed various initiatives from AKC that she thinks are to blame. But honestly I think it’s simple.

Dog shows are expensive. Breeding dogs is ridiculously expensive. And really hard. You get the tremendous highs but those heartbreaking lows are really hard to take. Those of us who have dedicated our lives to this can’t understand why people don’t want to abuse their bodies, emotions and wallets for the chance at creating that one big winner.

But a thing one of my guests said recently has really stuck with me. In his book Familiaris, David Wroblewski touches on a theme that I think we need to let roll around in our minds for a while.

His fictional dog breeder character describes the importance of creating something lasting and beautiful in the world. The idea of pursuing one impossible thing. That dog breeding is something like a “great quest” and gives our lives purpose.

So here’s my pitch.

We need MORE dog breeders, not fewer. But we need more GOOD dog breeders. People who put the dogs not the profit margin first. Not saying making money is a sin. It isn’t. But when you center the dogs, the breed and the buyers, you might not retire a billionaire, but you won’t go broke either. We’ve spent a good bit of time this year on providing content that helps people understand HOW to do this and do it well. That’s a big part of why we created the Pedigrees to Pups seminars. We had Matt Stelter on to talk about website and content creation. We talked to my friend BB who started a YouTube channel with his Brittany litter.

My challenge, dear listeners, is to extend your involvement. If you haven’t yet, consider working with your breeder to whelp and raise a litter under their guidance. Decide that ribbons get dusty, but building a strong family of dogs who will go on to bring joy to hundreds maybe even thousands of people over multiple decades is a vision worth having. It is a lifetime project that is WORTH your time, your effort, your investment, your blood, sweat and tears.

Because I promise you, when you start walking toward the end of your path, and you look back at your “body of work” with pride and love and the extended family of puppy buyers going back decades, it IS worthy of your effort.

Building something lasting doesn’t have to be a bridge out of concrete. It can be as real and as warm as the trusting gaze of an old friend looking out at you from the eyes of a new puppy.

We don’t have to buy the propaganda that PETA has sold us. We don’t have to hide our dogs and our passion. We don’t have to accept that the general public has zero concept of animal husbandry. WE can be the difference. We can use our voices to educate. If you aren’t comfortable speaking yourself, share resources like this one or the marty and laura show. AKC has resources. Our world is *drowning* in information that isn’t getting to the audience that needs to hear it. Preaching to the choir ain’t going to  fix it y’all.

We don’t have to accept anti breeder legislation. WE can introduce ourselves as subject matter experts and be the ones the lawmakers call when in doubt. WE do have the power of our own destinies. Somehow, we have allowed those to be stolen from us by slick slogans and people who have never bred a litter of puppies in their lives telling us how to do what we do. And I don’t mean AKC. I mean YOU. Literally, you. Our numbers may not be legion, but our passion is.

It is long past time that we stand proud with that in our communities.

So, do a quick check on your heart. Are you showing that gorgeous bitch to her triple quintuple grand champion platinum? How about you breed her? Or at least support someone in the trenches who is doing the work and buy a new dog. And yes, you can find someone to sell you a good dog. I promise. If you’re struggling, email me. I’ll help.

We need you guys, All y’all, to hang with it. To dream. To plan. To get knocked down and *get back up again*! No matter what tragedy, what horror, what sadness or betrayal, it’s a safe bet you aren’t alone.

Surround yourself with positive people who find constructive ways to improve instead of finding other people to blame. Find your tribe. If you haven’t already, I invite you to join ours. The Pure Dog Talk Patrons community is deep and rich with support and knowledge and camaraderie. Stop by the website and click the Patrons tab to join us.

Everyone starts somewhere and certainly I’m no exception.

Nine years ago I didn’t know what a podcast even was. Mary kept pushing me to host this thing and I just was baffled. I googled and poked around and most of them were booooooring things about stuff I couldn’t understand.

Then I ran across a name I knew! Back in the Seattle days, I was running the Human Rights Watch Film Festival and one of our sponsors was The Stranger, a sort of alternative newspaper. The primary reason it was semi famous was one columnist, a dude I knew to wave at by the name of Dan Savage and his, mmm, quirky sex advice column called Savage Love. And there it was! The Savage Love podcast!

He had *500* episodes at the time and I figured I’d make it a goal to surpass that…. I’m past that now, but I haven’t quite managed to eclipse the kinky sex pod, so I guess we’ll just have to keep trying! And that’s kind of a circular way of making my point … Keep going, find a way to motivate yourself and keep going some more.

While you’re at it, help me beat Savage Love! Like, share, review and subscribe.

Talk ON. Peace….

Jake Bartells on NAVHDA, Epagneul Breton and Dog Clubs

Host Laura Reeves is joined by Jake Bartells, a member of the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association (NAVHDA) and breeder of Epagneul Breton. Their wide-ranging conversation about the inherent challenges of dog clubs is applicable to any club, of any type, anywhere.

About NAVHDA

“NAVHDA is an organization of about 10,000 members,” Bartells said. “It's mainly a testing organization that gathers data in a registry and that's where it houses the data is through the registry. All of the tests are done per a standard. So you're judged against the standard and each dog tested and each member has both a handler record and then the testing record for the dog. That data in an ideal world is used by breeders to then continue and better the breeds that we recognize and it's super useful.”

About Dog Clubs

“(It’s important) to have a complete transparent communication with (the membership). I think they deserve to know exactly where the organization's at at all times and not have to ask for it, have it be provided and put out there. I wanna see financial strength in the organization, having money gives you resources that allows you to do more, and then just absolutely upholding our mission, mission first by all stretch. I think that's done through building teams of great people. Nobody has to do the job alone.  For a living, I project manage and I can't build a house or build a casino or build anything else without teams and upon teams of great talented people. And with 10,000 members, we have an unbelievable amount of very talented people in very specific fields and most of which are willing to do it for the organization.

About Epagneul Breton vs Brittany

“It's one of those things where on paper, it doesn't look that different. When you bring two dogs out, it doesn't take a trained eye to start picking them out at a separate dogs very quickly and especially in the way they run. You know, the French say that they should run like a pig. They should have a shorter, choppier stride that comes from being, "cobby.” They’re as tall at the withers as they are long. And so they should move in that manner that's a bit different.

“We can have orange and white, liver and white, liver, tri-color, and then orange tri-color, and black and white. The easy distinction is they're gonna have black nose, black lips, black eyelids, and they can have black on their heads, black toenails. So even the orange and whites are going to have black nose, black eyelids. It's never going to look like the pink nose of an American Brittany.”

Three Words That Strike Fear in Vets and Owners

Host Laura Reeves is joined by Dr. Marty Greer talking about the three words that strike fear in both veterinarians and owners.

“These three things are what can take a normal, easy, lovely day at the veterinary clinic and turn it upside down and cause clients to have to wait and then swear at their veterinary team because they don't understand why they have to wait because they had an appointment,” Greer said.

Those three words, according to Greer, are GDV (bloat), Pyo (pyometra) and HBC (hit by car).

Refresher on these three critical care situations:

Pyometra is a uterine infection.

“Fevers are almost never seen with pyometras,” Greer said. “And it's a hard thing to understand how you can have a uterus full of pus and not run a fever. But apparently the uterus is a privileged organ and it allows for foreign things to happen in it. That could be a pyometra. That could be a puppy.

“So unfortunately, they almost never run a fever, so don't rely on that to be a symptom. If you were waiting for a fever to happen, it means that the uterus probably just ruptured and the dog now has a belly full of puss instead of just a uterus full of puss. And when your belly is full of puss, you're in big trouble. And so, if you're waiting for a temperature, you're decreasing your dog's odds of survival.

“If your dog was recently in heat, they aren't feeling well, they're not eating well, they're perhaps drinking buckets and buckets of water, maybe vomiting, maybe have a vaginal discharge, maybe not. Do not wait for a fever (to take the dog to the vet).”

GDV (gastric dilatation and volvulus) is bloat, where a dog’s stomach fills with air and may twist, causing a very rapid cascade of life-threatening events in the dog’s system.

HBC (hit by car) and other trauma is covered in our K9 911 First Aid seminar series linked here.

Dog Breeding as a Vision Quest

Host Laura Reeves is joined by NYT best-selling author David Wroblewski discussing dog breeding as a vision quest.

Wroblewski is the author of The Story of Edgar Sawtelle and Familiaris both based on the life and history of fictional dog breeder Edgar Sawtelle and his family.

“This sort of primal connection that we have with dogs, to me fundamentally is about how to live a larger, better life in a really broad sense,” Wroblewski said.

“One of the things that you mentioned, kind of like in the theme of the novels, is the importance of creating something lasting and beautiful in the world. The idea that you're pursuing one impossible thing,” Reeves said. “And let me tell you, as somebody who has been breeding dogs since I was a child with my family and still am today, that basically defines our life. So talk to us a little bit about how you came to that and how you incorporated that into your novels.”

“I think that there's only a couple of things that are worth writing about in the larger sense and one of them is love,” Wroblewski said. “And so I would hope that everything that I write is at some level and hopefully multiple levels a love story. But one of those love stories is the love of what you're trying to do in the world with your life.

“I mean, we all need to pay the bills. There are plenty of things that are just functional things about day-to-day living, but there's also the larger meaning of what you're doing with your life. And I've been lucky to have to work with people in a number of different realms that are lucky enough to be able to say I'm not just trying to pay the mortgage. I'm trying to do something bigger than just me.

“And one of the things that readers of Familiaris will run across partway through the book is a sort of accounting of this couple, John and Mary Sawtell. Familiaris is about this history of this kennel where everything takes place later for the Story of Edgar Sawtelle. But just an accounting of how all the work that they've done over the course of 40 years of raising dogs and placing them in the world, how that has accumulated and what the net effect across all human society has been. I feel like every time a dog gets placed with a thoughtful owner, that person's life has been changed forever.”

Swedish Lapphund and the Genetics of the Arctic Spitz Breeds

[caption id="attachment_14251" align="alignleft" width="540"] Desiree Ramirez with one of her Swedish Lapphunds.[/caption]

Host Laura Reeves is joined by Desiree Ramirez to discuss the Swedish Lapphund and the genetics of the arctic spitz “archetype” that developed into landrace dogs and then different breeds over centuries.

Swedish Lapphunds are not Finnish Laphunds or Finnish Spitz or Norwegian Buhunds or Norwegian Elkhounds or Samoyeds or Karelian Bear Dogs. Currently registered by AKC in the FSS, there are only about 40 dogs in the US. They are their own unique breed developed in the same region of the Scandinavian countries by the Sami people of Lappland (northern Norway, Sweden, Finland and northwest Russia). But these breeds all developed in the same basic region of the world.

“We have archeological evidence of these lap -ish dogs going back four to 8 ,000 years,” Ramirez said. “Like some of the first dogs in Scandinavia and Europe. They were the landrace archetype.

“And these dogs all are in haplogroup D and specifically when we talk about genetics specifically subclade group D1. Now haplogroup D is the most recent haplogroup in dog genetics that has the most recent wolf ancestry, barring any, you know, modern wolf mixes that we have. It is the most recent dog breed, dog type with wolf ancestry.

[caption id="attachment_14250" align="alignright" width="536"] Swedish Lapphund puppy.[/caption]

“That's why a lot of these dogs are these spitzy. That's why they looked so wolfy, they have a lot of those holdover traits because they're so close. Subclade Group D is specific to these Scandinavian breeds. So you're Finnish Lapphund, your Swedish Lapphund, Lapponian herders, all the elk hounds, they're all coming from that one subclade D.

“(One) thing that makes them really different (from the Finnish Lapphund). This is where they really shine between the two of them is their temperament. OK, Swedish Lapphunds are a little bit more drivey. The first comparison I ever heard between the two of them was it's like comparing a V6 and a V8 engine.

“The Swedish Lapphund is just going to drive and push and they really want to work, but they're the ones that will turn around and look at you in the yard and be like, OK, what are we doing next that? The handler focus that they have is extreme. They're always looking for you for that next thing that you want to do.

“The Swedish Lapphund or the Lappish dogs were from the Sami people. And these dogs had to be versatile. They had to do everything. So hunting, herding, guarding, keeping the people warm, they had to do it all. There was no ability to specialize, right, if the owner needed it, that dog was doing it.

“And to this day they still like to have a variety within the litter. So you might have a dog that's really good at hunting, which we still have dogs hunting and you might have one that herds and you might have one that is really just a great couch potato and they love that. They love that versatility and variety of temperament within the breed.”

The Tiny but Mighty Chihuahua with Kristi Green

[caption id="attachment_14231" align="alignleft" width="416"] Kristi Green with BIS MBISS GCHG CH Knockout Pretty Little Liar.[/caption]

Host Laura Reeves is joined by Kristi Green, talking about the tiny but mighty Chihuahua. From their slightly mysterious origins to best practices on finding and raising a well-bred dog, Green shares pro tips from her own successes and struggles.

“I think that the biggest part about living with a Chihuahua is that they can be as good of a dog as you want them to be or as bad of a dog as you let them be,” Green said. “There's a lot of user error and really successful users, for lack of a better word, I hear people say that you know, they're truly trying to bite somebody and I think ‘mine don't do that.’

“I've had a lot of Chihuahuas come and go throughout my process. And, and how you handle them in certain situations really, really has a lot to do with the dog that you have. What you put in is what you get out. But just day-to-day life with them, they're wonderful dogs. You've got this little dog that thinks you hung the moon and the stars, whether you barely got out of bed that day or you solved World Peace. They love you no matter what. And that really is part of their charm.

“It really has become the gold standard in Chihuahuas now that you do health test the dogs. That really has changed over the last 15 years since I started, and I think that that's important. Look for a breeder that's not just ohh, my dogs are healthy, they've been health tested, but that they're putting those dogs in the database because it says they care about the big picture, not just selling puppies, but they care about what happens in 15 years when somebody wants to learn about a pedigree.

“A Chihuahua that's going to be a good pet really has been home raised. You know, they've been raised in your house. They've been raised under foot. They've been exposed to just life in a house. They also have been socialized. I think it's a good idea to ask the question of, you know, what do you do to socialize the puppies? How are the puppies potty trained? I mean, are you doing anything as far as those things go, because that early framework really does make a big difference as far as how the dog handles life for the next 15 years.”

Read more in our 2018 blog post interview with Green HERE.

What’s Your “Line in the Sand” for Breeding

Host Laura Reeves is joined by Dr. Marty Greer for an important conversation about “what is YOUR line in the sand” when breeding dogs.

This is a conversation around breeding ethics and having a “mission statement” for your breeding program.

“I had a listener ask about a baby puppy with one testicle yoyoing and one maybe, maybe not there and what should they do? And Marty said, ‘Well, there's only a couple things and it won't take very long (to talk about), but I think that there's no reason not to breed that.’ And I'm like, wait, what? So, Marty, I want you to talk to me about why, because this was a very interesting perspective that had literally never crossed my mind.”

The conversation continues from there with Marty describing her “line in the sand” as deadly diseases. Her reasoning being the additional genetic diversity that comes when we don’t “throw out the baby with the bath water” for issues which do not actively impact a dog’s quality of life.

“The world according to Marty Greer is for me a level 1 is something that you don't have a life shortening, life altering disease from. It's a retained testicle. For me it's extra eyelashes. For me it's an entropian. For me, it's an umbilical hernia.

“For me, level 2 is something that requires chronic management, long term allergies. Thyroid disease, things that always need to be on medication. There's an ongoing expense. There's an ongoing thing that has to happen, but it's not serious.

“And for me, Level 3, are life threatening, life altering, life shortening diseases. This is my definition. For me, that's bad temperament. If your dog bites somebody, I don't think that dog should be in your gene pool. If I have to muzzle your dog to breed it, I don't think it should be in the gene pool. That for me is orthopedic diseases that are crippling. Hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, patellar luxation, all this stuff that happens orthopedically. And for me that's things like seizures, because I think seizures are life threatening.

“But that's my world. I live in a veterinary clinic. Remember, that's what I do every day. So I see dogs that come in with owners that are distressed, dogs that are dying, dogs that need to be euthanized. And so my perspective is going to be different than other people's perspectives because that's not the world they live in.”

The Glen of Imaal Terrier’s Place in Ireland

We have friend of the pod Theresa Nesbitt back and you guys know how much I harp on the current dogs are living history, right? Like this is my jam. And that purebred dogs represent a specific place and a specific people in a specific time. Well, Theresa has taken that for the Glen of Imaal Terrier and done this huge deep dive on it. And her information and her stories are so fascinating. You know, in the green room off air we were talking about. How cool it is for kids for adults to learn history using purebred dogs.

In Ireland, the national cultural heritage status of native breeds is protected by the government.

“What they're protecting is yes, the dogs,” Theresa said, “but actually the dog-human connection and where they came from relate to so many parts of Irish history and heritage. And there's only 9 native breeds there so I love getting into it because I felt like it was manageable.

“I think for preservation, it's really about the past and the present and the future. So we have to look at what came from the past. Right now, breeders, right now, we're working very hard with breed standards and we're saying, so how do we move forward into the future?

“Breeders can find their purpose for what they need to do today to make sure that those dogs of the future are still able to reach back through time and touch those things. So it's a hard job for us, but we have to do it.”

Theresa’s description of the physical location that is the Glen of Imaal is absolutely fascinating and why it tends to indicate to her the breed would have been unlikely to actually have worked as turnspit dogs.

“What is really important about it being the Glen of Imaal is the antique features and the unrefined to this day. And because (the area) was so hard to get to, the dogs stayed the way the dogs used to be.”

Listen back to the episodes referenced in today’s conversation HERE and HERE.

Pro Tips for Hot Dog Shows and When Safety Overrules Ribbons

Host Laura Reeves brings you Pure Dog Talk's LIVE@5 discussion of the hot summer dog shows and when safety is more important than ribbons.

"Let's talk about what hot means. And everybody has their own understanding of it, right? So what is hot to someone like myself from the Northwest might be no big deal if you're from Phoenix. Understand that if you're hot, your dogs have similar acclimation and so it's really important to understand what your dog can tolerate.

"I was doing my handling class for folks last night and I was talking about this topic and I had a pug dog back in the day, Pug Special, and the day he went best in show in Wisconsin, the thermometer said it was 105 and it was 85% humidity. Yeah, it was really gross. If you look at the photo of me from that day, I look like I've been dipped in olive oil. It is just disgusting.

"The judge was Norman Patton. I remember it all very clearly and he flat told me that the reason my dog went best in show that day, not just was he a nice pug dog or what have you, but on that horrible gross awful day, my dog went around the entire best in show ring without panting.

"And so a lot of that has to do with what the dog is acclimated to. That particular pug dog lived in Nebraska at the time. He was accustomed to gross humidity. And my dogs were not pampered pets. They went outside in the gross humidity. I was careful with them, but they were acclimated to the heat and the humidity, which other dogs If I had brought him straight from the West Coast to that environment, he'd have died. But because he was acclimated after a couple of years in Nebraska, it was more manageable for him.

"And the other thing that I did was manage his situation. So at a hot dog show, you have an ice chest full of ice and water. More water than ice, but it is ice cold water. You do not give that to your dog to drink. You put your cool coat or your shammy or your towel or your whatever you're going to use in that water and then you ring it out as much as you need to for your dog's coat and you put it on the ground and you have the dog stand on it.

"You do not put it over the dog's back because that's not going to get them cool. Dogs release heat from their pads, they release heat from their ear flaps, they release heat in their groin, anus, all of the places that have unfurred space. And so if we're going to keep our dogs cool, the way to keep them cool is to have the coldness underneath them.

"And then I had a good Ryobi fan. I had a spray bottle with water in it, and I had another shammy and I had trained him. So this is the other part. He was trained. That's an important part of this conversation. He was trained. He could lie down on his side in the ring and I would cover his eyes, his whole head up with another cold chamois. And so he was iced, literally, he was chill.

"And this particular ring was outdoors, kind of in semi shade. I spent the vast majority of that time in the best in show ring with the dog lying down and my back to the judge, to the ring, to everything else so that I could put him in the shade. I used my body to shade him because there wasn't as much shade as I would like there to be.

"So you can manage the heat if the dog is accustomed to it, if the dog is fit and if it is acclimated to the basic conditions and then you can keep them cool enough for the amount of time that you have. So that's number one.

"Number two, remember. There's no law that you have to go to the dog show that you entered if it's 100°. Another special, another time, another place. There was a big candy ass. I can't say it another way. God love him. I loved that dog, but he was not heat tolerant and he had won a big specialty in California. And I had a huge falling out with his co-owner over it because I refused to show him the group, because it's gonna be 105 and it was out in more sun and he was going to be miserable and he was not going to perform. And I didn't want to have people see him look bad. Even though there was a reasonably good chance he could have gotten a group placement since he just won the specialty that day. OK, so we make decisions, we make the right decision for our dog."