Quarterly Podcast: The Future of Window Treatments: Trends, Tech & Marketing Secrets!

Guests Profile:

Joe Kendall

President – Made in the Shade Eastern Shore

Owns Kendall furniture , Made in the shade dealer went from 58th place, to 5th place, to second place and in 2024 #1 Volume dealer in North America

Ryan Gilberts

Owner of Shaded Window Coverings

With over a decade in the window covering industry, Ryan launched Shaded Window Coverings in 2022 to bring his vision to life. Starting as an installer and moving into sales, he quickly mastered the business and took the leap to entrepreneurship. Now, nearly three years later, his company is thriving, recently securing a six-figure project for 1,900 shades in a new apartment complex.

Other Notes/Links:

To learn more about

Joe Kendall visit:

MITS Eastern Shore

Ryan Gilberts visit:

Shaded Window Coverings

pssst…. want to be a guest on the show?

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Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhI2cJpxIu8&ab_channel=WindowTreatmentMarketingPros

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Transcript

Will Hanke (00:00)

All right, everyone. Welcome to another episode of marketing panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their strengths, about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today is our Q2 preview. We’re going to talk about what happened in Q1. We’re going to talk about what we think is coming up in Q2. I’ve got two guests with some great insights that I’m excited to interview.

First of all, we got Joe Kendall, president

of Made in the Shades Eastern Shore. Joe owns Kendall Furniture, a Made in the Shade dealership. He went from 58th place to fifth place in the Made in the Shade franchise, then second place, and in 2002, 2024 became the number one volume dealer in North America. Joe, thanks for being on the show today.

Ryan Gilberts (00:31)

Okay.

Joe Kendall (00:40)

you

You’re very welcome. We’re happy to be here.

Will Hanke (00:57)

Thank you.

We’ve also got Ryan Gilbert’s Ryan owns Shaded Window Coverings in Montana. Shaded Shaded Window Covering started in May 2022 after Ryan was working for some other businesses in the window covering industry over the last 10 years. He wanted to. He first started in the industry as a part time installer, then moved to lead installer position and eventually a hybrid role of installer and salesperson.

Ryan Gilberts (00:58)

you

Will Hanke (01:27)

Now almost

three years later, there’s really no turning back. He’s just started his largest sixth figure project, 1900 shades for an apartment building under construction. Ryan, thank you for joining as well.

Ryan Gilberts (01:39)

Thanks, Will.

Will Hanke (01:40)

1900 so you’re going be a little bit busy I guess for at least the next couple days right?

Ryan Gilberts (01:44)

Fortunately, it’s being built out in stages.

Will Hanke (01:46)

Awesome. Yeah, that’s great. Congrats on that. So I want to start by talking about some different industry trends. What emerging trends are you guys seeing in the industry right now? And how can other window treatment dealers kind of align with these trends to stay competitive?

Joe Kendall (02:02)

Ryan, think what you’re doing is, Ryan and I spoke a little bit beforehand, Will, and we really love that the exterior market is exploding. you need to make sure you’re talking to your clients because they don’t know all the cool things you know as far as that goes. I was talking to Ryan and we were discussing how you might go into a customer wants to get some roller shades up on four windows that are consecutive.

Ryan Gilberts (02:12)

Yeah.

Joe Kendall (02:28)

And you leave the house with an exterior roller shade motorized. their beautiful in-tort, their trim on the inside is left alone. It’s gorgeous. And they can have that true builder look, but yet get the results they need when they need them. I think the exterior, and people, great too. I think they expect to pay more for exterior blinds.

And it’s with the warranties that some of these manufacturers are offering, it’s really a great way to go.

Ryan Gilberts (02:55)

Yeah, I got to agree on that too, but.

Will Hanke (02:57)

Yeah, I like that.

Ryan, are you seeing something similar?

Ryan Gilberts (02:59)

So yeah, I mean I like the exterior products They’re definitely a little bit more sleek, but they’re definitely a touch more expensive than some people anticipate But the cool thing is there’s a vast majority of dealers or I should say vendors that are starting to manufacture those and get into the market so I Don’t think price points all gonna be all that

Will Hanke (03:21)

I know when we talked with some of our guests on the Q1 podcast that we had talked about, they mentioned the luxury buyers are really popping up more. Are you guys seeing that as well?

Ryan Gilberts (03:32)

Absolutely.

Joe Kendall (03:33)

yeah. Yeah. Our average ticket for the last six months is up about 15%.

Will Hanke (03:38)

Okay.

Joe Kendall (03:38)

You know, we were in the $4,400 average ticket. We’re now in that a hair over 5,000, 5,200 area, which I think is just people are buying nicer stuff.

Will Hanke (03:48)

Yeah, I think that’s a great point. when I started in this industry as the marketing guy, about seven years ago, we niche down specifically just to the window treatment and awning industry. The average job was 2,500, 3,000. So obviously part of that is, I guess you could say inflation, but also I think it’s just people are buying better quality stuff.

Ryan Gilberts (04:03)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Kendall (04:11)

And, you know, there was always… Go ahead, Ryan, I’m sorry.

Ryan Gilberts (04:11)

Absolutely.

no, I was just saying absolutely. But I would probably say a year ago, I kind of crossed over that bridge with Hunter Douglas and became one of their dealers. But I will say that going into that bridge and are going into that realm of the market and being able to offer those very high quality products, my ticket sales have definitely increased tremendously. And I’m also getting a lot of those larger ticket deals and showing them.

The cool stuff, I guess you can say.

Joe Kendall (04:40)

You know, and I train, we have two full-time salespeople. I still train them and remind them of the famous, you know, Bloomingdale’s three bread maker stories about a good, better, best versus just a good or a best. And, you know, I encourage my people that when they’re presenting a product, and let’s say they’re talking about a Roman shade or they’re talking about a roller shade, and you pop out a Hunter Douglas vignette, you know, I’m a big believer in telling the client straight up,

hey, this is a more expensive product. There’s a decent chance, you the average salesperson might think, God, they’re going to be bummed. But really they go, cool, this is what I want. And I always like to tell people, because obviously if a roller shade was $49, we’d sell everybody we talked to. But not being afraid of the more expensive products and sharing with your customer, hey look.

Ryan Gilberts (05:18)

Okay.

.

Joe Kendall (05:32)

This is

a more expensive product, but let me tell you why and what you get. And then it’s like, well, this makes perfect sense. selling higher up, it takes work. But if you do it right, it really, really can pay off.

Ryan Gilberts (05:37)

Okay.

I gotta agree with you on that. Definitely education with your customers or clients is I think gonna make you stand above the crowd and definitely show your worth and then also get those larger ticket items.

Joe Kendall (05:56)

Definitely, definitely.

Will Hanke (05:57)

I love the idea of upselling, right? You already got them on the hook. Now if you can walk out with 10 % more than you thought you’d get or something like that, it’s a fantastic growth strategy for your business.

Joe Kendall (06:08)

You know, I’m going to share a quick story if I could, Will. When I first started selling 30 years, 35 years ago, I was selling roofs and my closing ratio was excellent, but my gross profit was just barely average. So the owner says, Joe, I want you to go out to dinner tonight with Zeke, who’s our highest profit guy. makes a thousand dollars or more than you a week. He’s going to teach you how to sell higher. And I was like, my God, this is going to change everything.

We go out to happy hour drinking, long story short, we get to midnight, we’re at 7-Eleven, we’ve had some cocktails. And I said, Zeke, we’re gonna be in deep trouble, you didn’t train me tonight. And we ran up the owner’s credit card. So Zeke can barely stand up and he asked the cashier, says, for a napkin and a pen. And I said, sure. So Zeke goes, here you go, on a 20 square roof, what’s your opening price? I said, well, I usually start around 4,200.

Zeke burps up some beer and says, okay, try it again, but this time instead of writing a four down, write a five. And the moral of story is just open up a little higher and you’ll get more, it’ll make a higher sale. It’s that simple. Just start a little higher. And I always remind people you can’t go up, but you can go down. So that’s one of my favorite training stories.

Will Hanke (07:17)

I love that you were able to write the night off on the.

Joe Kendall (07:19)

You

So.

Will Hanke (07:20)

Draining

Cool, that’s great. I love to hear that so Quick disclaimer both of you guys are clients of window treatment marketing pros So you guys are obviously, you know doing the SEO stuff doing the paid ads. I wanted to talk a little bit more about professional connections Local networking those kinds of things. What are you guys doing in that area to help generate leads and maybe even longer-term relationships?

Joe Kendall (07:49)

Go ahead, Ryan.

Ryan Gilberts (07:50)

To generate leads, mean, I’m talking to the sphere of people that I hang out with. I’m pretty fortunate with the area in Montana that I’m at. We have a lot more cattle than we do people. So the people that I’m dealing with are going to be a lot of business owners. The 1900 shade project that I got was due to one of my good buddies that is doing all the dirt work for this project. He just simply sent a text and said, who does all your shades?

call this guy. So it’s, really the sphere of people that I’m dealing with, but also kind of going back to what Joe was just saying about getting those higher ticket items, dealing with those larger, more expensive products. It’s actually the word of mouth of those people. You know, I’m, I’m giving them good, good solid products, great service, and they’re just talking to more people. As far as the marketing aspect goes that you can actually

pinpoint where your dollars are going. I still do local marketing. I don’t know if you guys have Valpac over on the East Coast or what have you, but Valpac is one of them. I am in with a lot of magazines for top realtors and also in magazines that just strictly market the top 1 % of homeowners in the area. And I also do TV commercials.

Joe Kendall (09:02)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s the old saying that, you know, half of my advertising works. I just don’t know which half, but I know this plug for Will, Will’s works. So without a doubt, one of the things I’m going to we’re talking to people in the industry. I simply for sake of a better term, pay off real estate agents that are sitting in a new neighborhood.

Will Hanke (09:02)

Okay, Joe.

Ryan Gilberts (09:12)

Yep.

Joe Kendall (09:23)

It’s just what I do. There’s a neighborhood and I went and talked to them and gave them. There’s a great restaurant company in town that has about 10 awesome restaurants. One gift card. I gave them each a $500 gift card. people might think that’s a lot, but all I got to do is get one purchase and I’m even. And I love giving that gift so big.

that now they feel guilty. Like they have to get me referrals now. You know, they’re the ones that are like, my God. So I love real estate agents. Word of mouth is the big thing. I love taking every service call that we should charge a hundred bucks for and not charging them and telling the people we should charge you. But if you get me a referral, you meet somebody who’s talking about window coverings, just make sure you pass my name along.

Ryan Gilberts (09:56)

Mm-hmm.

Joe Kendall (10:06)

Since you saved them 200 bucks, now they feel the guilt where they, gosh, we gotta find Joe a referral. So I love doing that. One thing too, this is gonna be the, well, the basketball going on. You’ve heard like, you know, the five star lock of the week, the team you have to bet on. Here’s my five star lock of the week, Will. Change how you respond to five star reviews. Don’t say thank you. Don’t say, well, obviously say thank you.

but use that review time, the response, to sell. Hey, we really love Tom the installer, he was great. Hey, that’s awesome. Tom, like all of our installers, is completely certified and has been with us for X amount of time. Tom’s been through four certifications in XYZ and loves his job. Thank you for mentioning him. So when people are reading that, they go, shit, these guys got good people. Or, wow, I love the shutters.

And don’t forget, all of our products have a lifetime warranty. So if you have a problem, please call us. Put in your responses to your Google reviews. Selling words, you know, hey, I’m so happy we could get that installed within your quick timeline. Oh, they do stuff quick. So people are reading their reviews, but they’re also going to review, read your responses. So that’s my 50 star pointer.

Will Hanke (10:56)

You

Joe Kendall (11:18)

I guess of this podcast is to change how you do your reviews and will do not use AI to do it for you. Be personal that you can be more personal. And again, though, you can you can sell. You got a chance because people are going to read reviews, so make them read stuff that you want to tell them. That’s all.

Will Hanke (11:35)

Yeah,

I love that it’s a missed opportunity if you just say thank you.

Ryan Gilberts (11:36)

Let me touch base on that.

Let me touch base on that review. I love it. I’m a very personable person when it comes to my reviews. give, you know, hey, Cheryl, thank you so much for the great review. It’s been extraordinary working with you, getting your automated roller shades or automated honeycomb shades up for you. But it’s also and I only have one of these a four star review. It’s how you respond to those.

I mean, so I’ve been in business for a short time. I, 2022 customer gave me a four star review because I, well, it freezes here and my spackle was frozen that morning to fill in the old screw holes of his vertical blind. That’s why I got a four star review. I responded back with, let me, let me come and earn that fifth star. He never, he never changed his review, but he’s bought four more times since then.

Joe Kendall (12:03)

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

Ryan Gilberts (12:31)

stuff.

That fourth star haunts me.

Will Hanke (12:33)

That’s awesome. I love that. That’s great. And I love the idea of being personal about it, you know, and replying to each of those individually. AI can get a little dry on it. Obviously also an opportunity to use certain keywords and locations. You know, we really enjoyed installing the window treatments in your Chesterfield home, you know, something like that where it doesn’t violate any privacy type stuff, but

Joe Kendall (12:34)

Yeah. Yeah.

You

Will Hanke (12:59)

you do get the name of the place in there as well.

Joe Kendall (13:02)

Mention in the neighborhood, Will. Good point, good point.

Will Hanke (13:04)

Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So I want to talk a little bit about expansion. So when it comes to reaching out in your particular area, you know, have a little bit of an advantage because you’re located in that area. And especially Ryan, I’m assuming in Montana, cities are maybe a little bit further apart than they are for Joe. Right. So so how do you handle

expansion or driving a certain distance tell us about that.

Ryan Gilberts (13:31)

Yeah, I I probably cover a two hour span from my location around. So I try to group all my appointments. Sometimes it works out, but I mean, hey, I’ll go over to this part of the neck of the woods and we’ll get a few appointments done that day. We’ll go over to next part of the neck of the woods.

So we’ll do that, but I mean, we’re getting a lot more. You can go into the bigger cities and I call them the cities, but you know, it’ll be a little bit more.

solid people like you can walk through neighborhoods and things like that still. It’s not, you know, you’re not going on a 40 acre ranch or a 3000 acre ranch and every every house that you go to. A lot of the communities that we’re in, they are going to be in your, would say eight, 900,000 to a million and a half dollar homes when they’re in neighborhoods like that. So

Will Hanke (14:15)

Yeah.

Ryan Gilberts (14:27)

They are typically a solid appointment.

Will Hanke (14:29)

I like that. I like how you stack them together, know, do a couple in one area. Yeah, especially when you’re traveling that far.

Joe Kendall (14:32)

Yeah, you have to,

Ryan Gilberts (14:32)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

For sure. For sure.

Will Hanke (14:38)

Yeah, Joe, what about you? Obviously, things are a little bit more compact in your area. I know you just added another location. Tell us about that.

Joe Kendall (14:42)

Yep, yep.

So we added a second location. The way our town is set up, our area is set up is we’re up against the Atlantic Ocean. So we do half circles. We don’t do full circles, you know? But there’s a really wealthy part, and I opened up on the street to that wealthy neighborhood area.

Will Hanke (14:56)

you

Joe Kendall (15:04)

with the idea of getting some stop in traffic and things like that. And we’re also showing higher end goods there. We’re not showing faux blinds in that location. So far so good. We’re making the so-called nut. But it’s like anything. It’s repetition, repetition, customers seeing and hearing about your name and so forth.

One nice thing I love about the Maiden the Shade is it’s purple and gray with a tint of yellow. So purple signs kind of stand out a little bit. But it’s a classic, you know.

A lot of people who are, nothing wrong with this, but who are trunk slammers and they want to go to that first store. You know, I was mentoring a Made in the Shade dealer and I was like, what hours are you going to be open before you expand? And they said, we’re going to go a nine to two and be closed on Saturday and Sunday. And my response was either going to be a retailer or you’re not going to be a retailer. And retailers are open seven days a week.

and depending on your town, till seven o’clock at night. And they’re like, oh, we don’t want to do all that. And I was like, well, then you don’t want to have a store. You don’t want to become a retailer. So I don’t know, if that was more what you were thinking about, like when to expand and so forth. For us, I looked at it like an advertising spend. It’s going to cost me $5,000 a month to have that store.

with the people and everything and I figured well hell $5,000 a month a billboard is in my neighborhood is $1,500 a month so it’s like buying two or three billboards but I’ll have a physical person I’ll be on the main drag so there’s a lot to think about before expansion obviously but

Will Hanke (16:40)

Sure.

Yeah, but there’s the nice thing about the window treatment industry is the average job is fairly high as we mentioned earlier. So it doesn’t take a lot to make that money back.

Joe Kendall (16:50)

No, no, no.

Will Hanke (16:51)

That’s great. Yeah. So I want to talk to you guys a little bit about partnerships, collaborations. Is there anything that you guys are doing that would be beneficial to the listeners around similar to what you said, Joe, with the real estate people in anything else like that?

Joe Kendall (17:08)

If there’s new construction in your area, get after those agents that are sitting in the house. That’s your bread and butter. Hey, hi Will, it’s nice to meet you. How long you been with NVR Homes? Hey, where’s your place? Do you have plantation shutters? Would you like to get plantation shutters? And I always say, hey, know, my manufacturer gives me some leeway on some sample products.

I love to put some sample products in 10 of your windows. We’ve done that before for people and put plantation shutters in their house. That was in the neighborhood that we got 23 jobs from. It’s just the best $3,000 I ever spent. So I’m a big believer in the real estate agents. I’m a big believer in having someone like Will do your Google buy.

I respond, Will will ask me a question, and I’ll say, Will, you’re the pro, buddy. It’s working so far. Don’t ask me. You got that covered. But that’s my one thing I would say is that’s where it’s at. a $100 gift card or a $50 gift card doesn’t do anything. Go to $500. That’s my tip of the day, second tip of the day.

Will Hanke (18:10)

You

Ryan Gilberts (18:11)

What? I’ll go off that. There’s an organization here in town called MOR for Kids, so Missoula Organization of Realtors, and it’s a nonprofit for kids. And I am the only window covering person in that organization. And I reach 800 realtors. There’s 800 realtors in the Missoula account.

Joe Kendall (18:26)

Oof.

Ryan Gilberts (18:28)

It’s just insane. But I’m the one window covering guy and I’m there competing in all their nonprofit organizations and it’s fun for me. We do a charity kickball tournament. We do a charity golf tournament and we do a winter gala. I get the most donations in the kickball tournament. My team typically always wins in the golf tournament. And last year,

I spent the most at the charity and I got the most awards.

So that’s kind of how I shotgun blast my name out there.

Will Hanke (18:55)

Fantastic.

Joe Kendall (18:58)

Yep, I love it.

Will Hanke (18:59)

That’s really cool. love that collaboration.

Ryan Gilberts (18:59)

They all call me Shady Ryan

for a reason.

Joe Kendall (19:01)

I love it. like that. Shady Ryan. I like that.

Will Hanke (19:04)

That’s great. And

at the end of the day, you’re supporting something, right? So there’s that whole PR side of things too, where you can get a little bit of that out there.

Ryan Gilberts (19:12)

Exactly.

Joe Kendall (19:12)

That’s, and

Ryan’s right on with, what’s your Realtor Association name, Ryan?

Ryan Gilberts (19:18)

M-O-R.

Joe Kendall (19:18)

The moon. OK. So we have the Coastal Association of Realtors. Here you go. Every town you’re in has an association of realtors and you can be what’s called a whatever kind of member you are, Ryan. It’s not accessory member, but it has a name. That means you’re not a realtor. Thank you very much, Ryan. Yeah, you’re an affiliate member. you get and with that, Ryan, you also get right emails, phone numbers for everybody, every realtor in town.

Ryan Gilberts (19:19)

Mozilla organization of realtors.

an affiliate.

Yep, exactly.

Joe Kendall (19:43)

So

lots of marketing you can do with that.

Will Hanke (19:45)

Wow, that’s awesome. So cool, we talked to… Go ahead.

Ryan Gilberts (19:46)

and also building industry associations.

Joe Kendall (19:49)

Yes, yes, yes. Ryan, I’m gonna get off this phone, off this podcast here, and I’m gonna figure out how I can get a commercial job like that. My biggest commercial job so far is 17 roller shades at a restaurant. But that kind of stuff gets me excited. That gets me wound up.

Ryan Gilberts (20:04)

Yeah, yeah,

we got three more coming in.

Will Hanke (20:08)

I saw you.

Joe Kendall (20:09)

Ugh.

Will Hanke (20:09)

That’s

great. Joe, saw your brain ticking back there when he said it.

Joe Kendall (20:12)

my god, it’s crazy. You can actually see my brain right here. There

it is.

Will Hanke (20:16)

Yeah, so cool. talked about kind of collaborations and partnerships. Let’s switch and talk about the customer. What do you guys do to help build those relationships when it comes to getting into the home or even before you get into the home?

Joe Kendall (20:29)

So I’ll go first this time, OK. So the like to send.

Ryan Gilberts (20:30)

I’ll start. just kidding, Joe. You got it.

No, no, go ahead.

Will Hanke (20:32)

Ha!

Joe Kendall (20:38)

a video or two. If it’s a shutter job, we like to send a video or two. Like to send a link to our five star reviews beforehand. And then we really try, we do try to give a gift. Right now we’re giving away, it costs us about 40 bucks, but it’s a custom made cardboard box. I might have shown this to you well. It’s a custom made cardboard box, purple and yellow paper, and it has four rocks glasses in it, and they’re each engraved.

a palm tree, a setting sun. I can’t remember the other two. But given that as a gift and really, you you’re not going to get anything unless you ask for it. And when we give that gift, we like to say, hey, look, anybody ever talks about us, you know? And the thing is, is the kind of cool thing is anytime they get those glasses out and they have guests over, hopefully all come up in conversation. So that’s what we’re really trying to, you know, I’ve come up with the idea of

A $10 Starbucks card, if they lose that, who cares? But something that has value in their eyes, that’s what we’re going after for a gift when we ask those customers for the review and for the referrals.

Will Hanke (21:39)

That’s great. Love that. Ryan, how about you?

Ryan Gilberts (21:41)

So yeah, so as far as like gifts go, do like, if you know of anyone that needs a window coverings, I’ll do, I give a little gift card or not a gift card, but a little postcard. And there’s three options, like a, like a $50 gift card to Amazon or a hundred dollar gift card to a steak house that I did all their shades in.

or I have another a hundred dollar gift card to another buddy that owns a tap house. So, kind of something like that. It’s, it’s supporting my customers already and also trying to get more customers out there. But before I get into a house, the biggest thing that I’ve come to find out, because I’ll tell you guys, cause you see me on a screen. I’m six foot five and 285 pounds. I’m not a small person. So,

I always send an appointment reminder to people with this ugly mug and saying, Hey, I’m going to be at your doorstep. It takes a lot of hesitation off of people.

Will Hanke (22:34)

You

Joe Kendall (22:37)

Do you have like a height thing? Like you’re in a 7-Eleven doorway showing them how tall you are.

Ryan Gilberts (22:42)

You know I should, but we don’t need that.

Will Hanke (22:45)

Yeah.

Joe Kendall (22:45)

goodness, I love it, I love it.

Will Hanke (22:45)

That’s

I love the tips that you guys have shared. think those are great. Ryan, you mentioned the Amazon card. If somebody came to my house selling something and they mentioned that, I guarantee my wife would be all over that. I mean, she’s just ordering stuff every day off of there. So it’s interesting how far that can go for not a big spend. All right. So one other thing I wanted to ask about challenges.

Ryan Gilberts (22:58)

Right. Yep.

Will Hanke (23:09)

and maybe some solutions. What kind of challenges are you guys seeing out there when you’re trying to build those connections, grow your network, and for other people listening, maybe what are some ways that they could overcome those?

Ryan Gilberts (23:21)

So I can go because I’m the youngest probably in the industry on this podcast right now as far as being in business. My biggest thing is obviously competing. Obviously competing against the bigger names. Fortunately, I don’t have a made in the shade in my local area, but I do have that other cheap fish company that hasn’t

I wouldn’t say hasn’t stepped up in the realm of quality and customer service. But I always get with the realtors or with this other person like, hey, we had such and such company already do our shades. We already had this company do them. I already know this guy. So I mean, that’s my biggest hesitation. But then I come in and say, hey, you know what? That’s actually a shade that we also are a dealer for.

I can get that replaced for you. No problem. Get you a warranty issue taken care of. No problem. Because my competition didn’t want to call back or show up for a warranty appointment.

Will Hanke (24:14)

Great. Joe, how about you?

Joe Kendall (24:15)

lost them.

So one of the things that that one of my salespeople came to me with and were like, you know, how do I, know, bigger is better. Bigger means that they have more buying power. And I said, you know how to handle that, that question right there? How can I compete against 23rd day blinds or how can I compete against those guys? If you’re if you’re a small

and company you say, know what, it’s really, people probably wonder how can I compete against those big guys? And be honest, say, yeah, they probably buy the blinds for less than I do. But last time I checked, we don’t have a regional sales manager or regional divisional manager. We don’t have a regional vice president. We don’t have an office in Chicago. We don’t have this. We don’t have that. You know, I pay the same kind of bills they pay, but mine have a lot less zeros. So if you want someone that really knows the industry.

Ryan Gilberts (24:56)

and

Joe Kendall (25:07)

and can really

save you money, work with someone small and local. We’re here for you. And once you learn that objection, to get over that objection, the sky’s the limit. And that’s something that really, I always tell our people, remind them that there’s only six of us in the company. We don’t take retreats to Orlando to talk about how we’re going to sell this year. We might go out to

Ryan Gilberts (25:16)

you

.

Joe Kendall (25:32)

Alpac Steakhouse, but you know, that’s about it. But anyway, but that’s something that I think that people should get over when they’re a smaller company. When you’re a one person operation, is just remind them you don’t have regional vice presidents and director of sales and all that crud. So that’s the biggest thing I think is because that’s what they’re selling against you as. they’re so small. They’re so small, they can’t compete against us. That’s what they’re

saying. So say the exact opposite.

Will Hanke (25:59)

Yeah, I like that. When it comes to challenges, how about technology? How does that work in your world?

Joe Kendall (26:05)

Brian, lead boomerang, right buddy?

Ryan Gilberts (26:07)

Well I’m not really into the lead boomerang to be honest with you. I have used it. It’s just another Another thing I kind of I do solo tech and QuickBooks so You know, I still have the lead boomerang and it still transfers over into the solo tech I’m just not in lead boomerang daily

Joe Kendall (26:19)

Okay.

Ryan Gilberts (26:28)

I I’m a two man operation. I’m very mobile. I don’t have a storefront. I do have a office, but I’m not out at every day. So I’m out on the streets. If I’m in the office, I’m not really making money to be honest with you.

Joe Kendall (26:41)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So for me, the lead boomerang is everything. I can look at it. I can see calls that come in. With the lead boomerang customer tracking, I spend about three to five minutes in the morning updating our opportunity board. Today so far, we’ve gotten five phone calls. They’re all new leads.

Will Hanke (26:43)

How about you, Joe?

Joe Kendall (27:01)

with using lead boomerang and letting customers know, hey, the product’s been ordered. Hey, the product’s been shipped. Hey, it’s here. We have totally sliced and diced the incoming phone calls. Where’s my blind dad? was wondering when I was one. I was just curious. Those days are over for us. And I also have a second job running a furniture store.

So, and believe it or not, we actually, and this might sound terrible, but it’s the way it is. We found out when we got lead boomerang up and running with the opportunity page, we let our receptionist go. Just didn’t need her. Just didn’t need her. She was answering five calls a day saying, hey Joe, this customer wants to get an estimate. So I can handle five calls a day, you know, but we were getting 20 to 40 and so forth.

You know, it’s process to build it and to understand it, how it goes. And I’m a firm believer that I’m probably using 30 to 40 % of what lead boomerang can do. Whereas with my iPhone, I’m probably using 5 % or with my laptop, I’m using 5%. So I really feel like I’m getting a lot out of lead boomerang. And I have a State of the Union call with Will here on Friday, and we’re going to

Ryan Gilberts (28:04)

you

Joe Kendall (28:18)

spend some time

and to make sure I’m doing everything I should be doing with lead boomerang to get the most out of it. You know, we’re on a roll. We’re getting three to five, five star a week. And, you know, all of our business is not what I like. It’s what Google likes. Right, right. Well, does Google like this? Let’s do it. So that’s the biggest thing. Our automated responses, people will have conversations with our automated responses. God bless them.

Ryan Gilberts (28:20)

.

Will Hanke (28:33)

That’s right.

Ryan Gilberts (28:38)

.

Joe Kendall (28:43)

You know, thanks so much. Glad to hear from you, Joe. Looking forward to seeing you soon. You know, and you’re like, okay. But anyway, no, that’s the big thing. And I think the CRM is everything nowadays. That’s how the younger people work. They want text messages. They don’t want to wait. They don’t like phone calls, you know. But so that’s the big thing. Good CRM.

Ryan Gilberts (28:47)

.

Will Hanke (28:46)

You

Ryan Gilberts (28:55)

and

Will Hanke (29:00)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Ryan will need to get you some, some training and get you in there doing more of the stuff. Be happy to do that with you.

Ryan Gilberts (29:06)

That’s what I was just going to

Joe Kendall (29:07)

Brian, close

are you to big sky? Or skiing out there?

Ryan Gilberts (29:09)

About three and a

half hours three and a half hours away.

Joe Kendall (29:12)

All right, well, maybe we’ll work, we’ll figure something out. I’ll come out there and ski and teach you how to use lead boomerang.

Will Hanke (29:19)

There you go.

Ryan Gilberts (29:20)

you know where Yellowstone was filmed,

Joe Kendall (29:22)

What’s that, sir?

Ryan Gilberts (29:23)

You know where Yellowstone was filmed?

Joe Kendall (29:24)

couldn’t hear ya. Yeah!

Ryan Gilberts (29:25)

Yeah, I’m like 20 minutes from that. Yeah.

Joe Kendall (29:27)

That’s you.

how cool is that? How cool is that? That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So.

Will Hanke (29:33)

Very cool. All right, well one

last question for you guys. And then I wanna get some last thoughts from you. But I’m interested in what do you see as kind of the future of window treatment industry, where we’re going, and what can other business owners do to prepare for what’s coming up in Q2 and for the rest of the year?

Joe Kendall (29:53)

Wow.

Will Hanke (29:53)

You

Joe Kendall (29:53)

Ryan, go ahead and look at your crystal ball first.

Ryan Gilberts (29:54)

Well,

Will Hanke (29:56)

Hahaha

Ryan Gilberts (29:56)

yeah, I think, well, not I think, but I’m fairly certain that automation is going to just be the whole way of the future. You you’re going to get rid of the pulley strings. You’re going to get the automation systems, the motorization systems that are going to be standard. You’re not going to have the continuous cord loops, the beaded chains. You’re going to just have motorization. And with that, you’re going to have different price point motorizations.

Hopefully they get rid of the wand systems, but I think that’s just going to be kind of the way of the future. Shoot even films, window films that are going to be, you know, the transparent to the tint. That’s going to be a little bit more standardized, I think, especially with the way the Supreme Court’s Yep.

Joe Kendall (30:33)

Partner with somebody. Partner

with somebody as soon as you can. Partner with a company. We have one, Delmarva Tent, and they give me leads and I give them leads. But yeah, definitely. Sorry for jumping in, Brian, but yeah, I love that tent story.

Ryan Gilberts (30:47)

Go ahead Joe, let’s see what you got.

Will Hanke (30:48)

That’s great, Joe,

how about you and your crystal ball?

Joe Kendall (30:50)

I’m right with Ryan. Anytime you can, I think we’re going to start getting phone calls, a lot more phone calls about this phone call. I’m building a house and I want to have automation in my house and I haven’t broke ground. What do I need to do? So I would become familiar with the low voltage talk, try to get on any type of, whether it’s Alta Hunter, Norman, any type of low voltage talk, be familiar with that because you’re to get that call.

And you don’t want to go, I think you guys got to run speaker wire. So I just want to have a little bit of backstory, being able to talk about it, being able to talk about the distribution box and things like that. But I think that is what’s coming. And I think if to be prepared, one of the biggest home builders in my area is

sells window coverings to the customer. And they’re a Hunter dealer and a Norman dealer. And all it’s going to take is for these home builders who are so cookie cutter, they’re so buy the book, they don’t want any type of change, someone’s going to tell them, you know, we can make an extra $40,000 a house if we offer somebody a home, a smart home with pre-wired low voltage circuits to these windows. So I would just be ahead of that.

and be prepared for that. But I think I couldn’t agree with Ryan more that automation is going to be everything I would, I think in 20 years, you might even manual appliance might be gone in 20 years. Very good chance. So prepare for that and be ahead of that and have that knowledge in your back pocket when it happens.

Ryan Gilberts (32:11)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Will Hanke (32:22)

Love it, some great in-plate.

Ryan Gilberts (32:22)

Definitely future-proofing your

house.

Joe Kendall (32:23)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Will Hanke (32:24)

That’s great. And I would assume

that kind of stuff is increasing the value of your home nowadays, right, for people that are shopping for homes.

Joe Kendall (32:31)

Right. Right, right, right.

Will Hanke (32:32)

That’s great. Well, guys, thank you so much. Before we finish up here, just wanted to get any last thoughts for window treatment business owners that are out there struggling right now and want to obviously build their business over the rest of the year. What kind of advice would you give to them? We’ll start with Joe.

Joe Kendall (32:50)

No one’s gonna feel sorry for you.

It’s a tough world out there. You’re not going to be given anything. Become an expert. anytime you talk to people, there’s two great words to use, is unique and expert. People want unique products delivered by an expert. So those two words,

Will Hanke (32:55)

So you eat what you kill.

Joe Kendall (33:08)

are what I try to use all the time. You know, I don’t say salesman. I say expert. I don’t say, yeah, we have blinds. We have some very unique offerings. Separate yourself. But that’s, know, hey, listen, it’s not a cash cow. It’s work.

I can only imagine how far Ryan drives every day. But he’s working it and he’s doing it. But that would be my tip. Unique and expert are two words I would use as much as possible.

Will Hanke (33:39)

love that. Ryan is somebody who’s been in the industry for about what three years now. There’s people in your shoes or maybe even a little bit behind there. What advice would you have for them?

Ryan Gilberts (33:51)

Well, technically I’m fortunate that I have worked in the industry for almost 15 years. but I’ve owned the business on my own business for now three. biggest thing that I, I knew from when I went from here to here was honestly switching to my current website provider, throwing that one out there for you. Well,

Will Hanke (34:00)

Yeah.

Ryan Gilberts (34:11)

and

Will Hanke (34:12)

Thanks.

Ryan Gilberts (34:13)

Honestly, the marketing, making sure you look professional as a business and as a person. Anyone can slap a logo on the side of your van, but you need to know your product. Go out there, learn from your vendor reps. Get to know your vendor reps, learn from them. Start getting systems in place and getting your business a lot more efficient. So that way you’re not spending

four hours a day in your office grouping orders together because you want to save that $25 on a minimum.

Don’t jump over a dollar to save a dime.

Will Hanke (34:45)

Yeah.

I love that.

for sure, love that. Thank you guys so much for some incredible conversation today, I do appreciate it. Joe and Ryan, you guys have been amazing. As a listener, if you’ve been inspired to take your window treatment business to the next level, start applying some of these strategies right away. These guys have been doing this for quite a while, they know what works, take their advice and apply, I think is the best piece here.

Apply what you’re doing. If you love this episode, send it to a friend and don’t forget to click the subscribe button. We would love to make sure that you can hear all of our future podcasts as well. Ryan, Joe, thank you guys so much for taking some time out of your day to be with us.

Appreciate it guys. Thank you. We’ll catch you on the next one.

Joe Kendall (35:28)

OK.

Ryan Gilberts (35:28)

Thanks, Will.

Have good one.

Transcript

Will Hanke (00:00)

All right, everyone. Welcome to another episode of marketing panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning service providers or business owners about their strengths, about their successes and struggles related to marketing their business. Today is our Q2 preview. We’re going to talk about what happened in Q1. We’re going to talk about what we think is coming up in Q2. I’ve got two guests with some great insights that I’m excited to interview.

First of all, we got Joe Kendall, president

of Made in the Shades Eastern Shore. Joe owns Kendall Furniture, a Made in the Shade dealership. He went from 58th place to fifth place in the Made in the Shade franchise, then second place, and in 2002, 2024 became the number one volume dealer in North America. Joe, thanks for being on the show today.

Ryan Gilberts (00:31)

Okay.

Joe Kendall (00:40)

you

You’re very welcome. We’re happy to be here.

Will Hanke (00:57)

Thank you.

We’ve also got Ryan Gilbert’s Ryan owns Shaded Window Coverings in Montana. Shaded Shaded Window Covering started in May 2022 after Ryan was working for some other businesses in the window covering industry over the last 10 years. He wanted to. He first started in the industry as a part time installer, then moved to lead installer position and eventually a hybrid role of installer and salesperson.

Ryan Gilberts (00:58)

you

Will Hanke (01:27)

Now almost

three years later, there’s really no turning back. He’s just started his largest sixth figure project, 1900 shades for an apartment building under construction. Ryan, thank you for joining as well.

Ryan Gilberts (01:39)

Thanks, Will.

Will Hanke (01:40)

1900 so you’re going be a little bit busy I guess for at least the next couple days right?

Ryan Gilberts (01:44)

Fortunately, it’s being built out in stages.

Will Hanke (01:46)

Awesome. Yeah, that’s great. Congrats on that. So I want to start by talking about some different industry trends. What emerging trends are you guys seeing in the industry right now? And how can other window treatment dealers kind of align with these trends to stay competitive?

Joe Kendall (02:02)

Ryan, think what you’re doing is, Ryan and I spoke a little bit beforehand, Will, and we really love that the exterior market is exploding. you need to make sure you’re talking to your clients because they don’t know all the cool things you know as far as that goes. I was talking to Ryan and we were discussing how you might go into a customer wants to get some roller shades up on four windows that are consecutive.

Ryan Gilberts (02:12)

Yeah.

Joe Kendall (02:28)

And you leave the house with an exterior roller shade motorized. their beautiful in-tort, their trim on the inside is left alone. It’s gorgeous. And they can have that true builder look, but yet get the results they need when they need them. I think the exterior, and people, great too. I think they expect to pay more for exterior blinds.

And it’s with the warranties that some of these manufacturers are offering, it’s really a great way to go.

Ryan Gilberts (02:55)

Yeah, I got to agree on that too, but.

Will Hanke (02:57)

Yeah, I like that.

Ryan, are you seeing something similar?

Ryan Gilberts (02:59)

So yeah, I mean I like the exterior products They’re definitely a little bit more sleek, but they’re definitely a touch more expensive than some people anticipate But the cool thing is there’s a vast majority of dealers or I should say vendors that are starting to manufacture those and get into the market so I Don’t think price points all gonna be all that

Will Hanke (03:21)

I know when we talked with some of our guests on the Q1 podcast that we had talked about, they mentioned the luxury buyers are really popping up more. Are you guys seeing that as well?

Ryan Gilberts (03:32)

Absolutely.

Joe Kendall (03:33)

yeah. Yeah. Our average ticket for the last six months is up about 15%.

Will Hanke (03:38)

Okay.

Joe Kendall (03:38)

You know, we were in the $4,400 average ticket. We’re now in that a hair over 5,000, 5,200 area, which I think is just people are buying nicer stuff.

Will Hanke (03:48)

Yeah, I think that’s a great point. when I started in this industry as the marketing guy, about seven years ago, we niche down specifically just to the window treatment and awning industry. The average job was 2,500, 3,000. So obviously part of that is, I guess you could say inflation, but also I think it’s just people are buying better quality stuff.

Ryan Gilberts (04:03)

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Kendall (04:11)

And, you know, there was always… Go ahead, Ryan, I’m sorry.

Ryan Gilberts (04:11)

Absolutely.

no, I was just saying absolutely. But I would probably say a year ago, I kind of crossed over that bridge with Hunter Douglas and became one of their dealers. But I will say that going into that bridge and are going into that realm of the market and being able to offer those very high quality products, my ticket sales have definitely increased tremendously. And I’m also getting a lot of those larger ticket deals and showing them.

The cool stuff, I guess you can say.

Joe Kendall (04:40)

You know, and I train, we have two full-time salespeople. I still train them and remind them of the famous, you know, Bloomingdale’s three bread maker stories about a good, better, best versus just a good or a best. And, you know, I encourage my people that when they’re presenting a product, and let’s say they’re talking about a Roman shade or they’re talking about a roller shade, and you pop out a Hunter Douglas vignette, you know, I’m a big believer in telling the client straight up,

hey, this is a more expensive product. There’s a decent chance, you the average salesperson might think, God, they’re going to be bummed. But really they go, cool, this is what I want. And I always like to tell people, because obviously if a roller shade was $49, we’d sell everybody we talked to. But not being afraid of the more expensive products and sharing with your customer, hey look.

Ryan Gilberts (05:18)

Okay.

.

Joe Kendall (05:32)

This is

a more expensive product, but let me tell you why and what you get. And then it’s like, well, this makes perfect sense. selling higher up, it takes work. But if you do it right, it really, really can pay off.

Ryan Gilberts (05:37)

Okay.

I gotta agree with you on that. Definitely education with your customers or clients is I think gonna make you stand above the crowd and definitely show your worth and then also get those larger ticket items.

Joe Kendall (05:56)

Definitely, definitely.

Will Hanke (05:57)

I love the idea of upselling, right? You already got them on the hook. Now if you can walk out with 10 % more than you thought you’d get or something like that, it’s a fantastic growth strategy for your business.

Joe Kendall (06:08)

You know, I’m going to share a quick story if I could, Will. When I first started selling 30 years, 35 years ago, I was selling roofs and my closing ratio was excellent, but my gross profit was just barely average. So the owner says, Joe, I want you to go out to dinner tonight with Zeke, who’s our highest profit guy. makes a thousand dollars or more than you a week. He’s going to teach you how to sell higher. And I was like, my God, this is going to change everything.

We go out to happy hour drinking, long story short, we get to midnight, we’re at 7-Eleven, we’ve had some cocktails. And I said, Zeke, we’re gonna be in deep trouble, you didn’t train me tonight. And we ran up the owner’s credit card. So Zeke can barely stand up and he asked the cashier, says, for a napkin and a pen. And I said, sure. So Zeke goes, here you go, on a 20 square roof, what’s your opening price? I said, well, I usually start around 4,200.

Zeke burps up some beer and says, okay, try it again, but this time instead of writing a four down, write a five. And the moral of story is just open up a little higher and you’ll get more, it’ll make a higher sale. It’s that simple. Just start a little higher. And I always remind people you can’t go up, but you can go down. So that’s one of my favorite training stories.

Will Hanke (07:17)

I love that you were able to write the night off on the.

Joe Kendall (07:19)

You

So.

Will Hanke (07:20)

Draining

Cool, that’s great. I love to hear that so Quick disclaimer both of you guys are clients of window treatment marketing pros So you guys are obviously, you know doing the SEO stuff doing the paid ads. I wanted to talk a little bit more about professional connections Local networking those kinds of things. What are you guys doing in that area to help generate leads and maybe even longer-term relationships?

Joe Kendall (07:49)

Go ahead, Ryan.

Ryan Gilberts (07:50)

To generate leads, mean, I’m talking to the sphere of people that I hang out with. I’m pretty fortunate with the area in Montana that I’m at. We have a lot more cattle than we do people. So the people that I’m dealing with are going to be a lot of business owners. The 1900 shade project that I got was due to one of my good buddies that is doing all the dirt work for this project. He just simply sent a text and said, who does all your shades?

call this guy. So it’s, really the sphere of people that I’m dealing with, but also kind of going back to what Joe was just saying about getting those higher ticket items, dealing with those larger, more expensive products. It’s actually the word of mouth of those people. You know, I’m, I’m giving them good, good solid products, great service, and they’re just talking to more people. As far as the marketing aspect goes that you can actually

pinpoint where your dollars are going. I still do local marketing. I don’t know if you guys have Valpac over on the East Coast or what have you, but Valpac is one of them. I am in with a lot of magazines for top realtors and also in magazines that just strictly market the top 1 % of homeowners in the area. And I also do TV commercials.

Joe Kendall (09:02)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it’s the old saying that, you know, half of my advertising works. I just don’t know which half, but I know this plug for Will, Will’s works. So without a doubt, one of the things I’m going to we’re talking to people in the industry. I simply for sake of a better term, pay off real estate agents that are sitting in a new neighborhood.

Will Hanke (09:02)

Okay, Joe.

Ryan Gilberts (09:12)

Yep.

Joe Kendall (09:23)

It’s just what I do. There’s a neighborhood and I went and talked to them and gave them. There’s a great restaurant company in town that has about 10 awesome restaurants. One gift card. I gave them each a $500 gift card. people might think that’s a lot, but all I got to do is get one purchase and I’m even. And I love giving that gift so big.

that now they feel guilty. Like they have to get me referrals now. You know, they’re the ones that are like, my God. So I love real estate agents. Word of mouth is the big thing. I love taking every service call that we should charge a hundred bucks for and not charging them and telling the people we should charge you. But if you get me a referral, you meet somebody who’s talking about window coverings, just make sure you pass my name along.

Ryan Gilberts (09:56)

Mm-hmm.

Joe Kendall (10:06)

Since you saved them 200 bucks, now they feel the guilt where they, gosh, we gotta find Joe a referral. So I love doing that. One thing too, this is gonna be the, well, the basketball going on. You’ve heard like, you know, the five star lock of the week, the team you have to bet on. Here’s my five star lock of the week, Will. Change how you respond to five star reviews. Don’t say thank you. Don’t say, well, obviously say thank you.

but use that review time, the response, to sell. Hey, we really love Tom the installer, he was great. Hey, that’s awesome. Tom, like all of our installers, is completely certified and has been with us for X amount of time. Tom’s been through four certifications in XYZ and loves his job. Thank you for mentioning him. So when people are reading that, they go, shit, these guys got good people. Or, wow, I love the shutters.

And don’t forget, all of our products have a lifetime warranty. So if you have a problem, please call us. Put in your responses to your Google reviews. Selling words, you know, hey, I’m so happy we could get that installed within your quick timeline. Oh, they do stuff quick. So people are reading their reviews, but they’re also going to review, read your responses. So that’s my 50 star pointer.

Will Hanke (10:56)

You

Joe Kendall (11:18)

I guess of this podcast is to change how you do your reviews and will do not use AI to do it for you. Be personal that you can be more personal. And again, though, you can you can sell. You got a chance because people are going to read reviews, so make them read stuff that you want to tell them. That’s all.

Will Hanke (11:35)

Yeah,

I love that it’s a missed opportunity if you just say thank you.

Ryan Gilberts (11:36)

Let me touch base on that.

Let me touch base on that review. I love it. I’m a very personable person when it comes to my reviews. give, you know, hey, Cheryl, thank you so much for the great review. It’s been extraordinary working with you, getting your automated roller shades or automated honeycomb shades up for you. But it’s also and I only have one of these a four star review. It’s how you respond to those.

I mean, so I’ve been in business for a short time. I, 2022 customer gave me a four star review because I, well, it freezes here and my spackle was frozen that morning to fill in the old screw holes of his vertical blind. That’s why I got a four star review. I responded back with, let me, let me come and earn that fifth star. He never, he never changed his review, but he’s bought four more times since then.

Joe Kendall (12:03)

Yeah.

Right.

Okay.

Ryan Gilberts (12:31)

stuff.

That fourth star haunts me.

Will Hanke (12:33)

That’s awesome. I love that. That’s great. And I love the idea of being personal about it, you know, and replying to each of those individually. AI can get a little dry on it. Obviously also an opportunity to use certain keywords and locations. You know, we really enjoyed installing the window treatments in your Chesterfield home, you know, something like that where it doesn’t violate any privacy type stuff, but

Joe Kendall (12:34)

Yeah. Yeah.

You

Will Hanke (12:59)

you do get the name of the place in there as well.

Joe Kendall (13:02)

Mention in the neighborhood, Will. Good point, good point.

Will Hanke (13:04)

Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So I want to talk a little bit about expansion. So when it comes to reaching out in your particular area, you know, have a little bit of an advantage because you’re located in that area. And especially Ryan, I’m assuming in Montana, cities are maybe a little bit further apart than they are for Joe. Right. So so how do you handle

expansion or driving a certain distance tell us about that.

Ryan Gilberts (13:31)

Yeah, I I probably cover a two hour span from my location around. So I try to group all my appointments. Sometimes it works out, but I mean, hey, I’ll go over to this part of the neck of the woods and we’ll get a few appointments done that day. We’ll go over to next part of the neck of the woods.

So we’ll do that, but I mean, we’re getting a lot more. You can go into the bigger cities and I call them the cities, but you know, it’ll be a little bit more.

solid people like you can walk through neighborhoods and things like that still. It’s not, you know, you’re not going on a 40 acre ranch or a 3000 acre ranch and every every house that you go to. A lot of the communities that we’re in, they are going to be in your, would say eight, 900,000 to a million and a half dollar homes when they’re in neighborhoods like that. So

Will Hanke (14:15)

Yeah.

Ryan Gilberts (14:27)

They are typically a solid appointment.

Will Hanke (14:29)

I like that. I like how you stack them together, know, do a couple in one area. Yeah, especially when you’re traveling that far.

Joe Kendall (14:32)

Yeah, you have to,

Ryan Gilberts (14:32)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

For sure. For sure.

Will Hanke (14:38)

Yeah, Joe, what about you? Obviously, things are a little bit more compact in your area. I know you just added another location. Tell us about that.

Joe Kendall (14:42)

Yep, yep.

So we added a second location. The way our town is set up, our area is set up is we’re up against the Atlantic Ocean. So we do half circles. We don’t do full circles, you know? But there’s a really wealthy part, and I opened up on the street to that wealthy neighborhood area.

Will Hanke (14:56)

you

Joe Kendall (15:04)

with the idea of getting some stop in traffic and things like that. And we’re also showing higher end goods there. We’re not showing faux blinds in that location. So far so good. We’re making the so-called nut. But it’s like anything. It’s repetition, repetition, customers seeing and hearing about your name and so forth.

One nice thing I love about the Maiden the Shade is it’s purple and gray with a tint of yellow. So purple signs kind of stand out a little bit. But it’s a classic, you know.

A lot of people who are, nothing wrong with this, but who are trunk slammers and they want to go to that first store. You know, I was mentoring a Made in the Shade dealer and I was like, what hours are you going to be open before you expand? And they said, we’re going to go a nine to two and be closed on Saturday and Sunday. And my response was either going to be a retailer or you’re not going to be a retailer. And retailers are open seven days a week.

and depending on your town, till seven o’clock at night. And they’re like, oh, we don’t want to do all that. And I was like, well, then you don’t want to have a store. You don’t want to become a retailer. So I don’t know, if that was more what you were thinking about, like when to expand and so forth. For us, I looked at it like an advertising spend. It’s going to cost me $5,000 a month to have that store.

with the people and everything and I figured well hell $5,000 a month a billboard is in my neighborhood is $1,500 a month so it’s like buying two or three billboards but I’ll have a physical person I’ll be on the main drag so there’s a lot to think about before expansion obviously but

Will Hanke (16:40)

Sure.

Yeah, but there’s the nice thing about the window treatment industry is the average job is fairly high as we mentioned earlier. So it doesn’t take a lot to make that money back.

Joe Kendall (16:50)

No, no, no.

Will Hanke (16:51)

That’s great. Yeah. So I want to talk to you guys a little bit about partnerships, collaborations. Is there anything that you guys are doing that would be beneficial to the listeners around similar to what you said, Joe, with the real estate people in anything else like that?

Joe Kendall (17:08)

If there’s new construction in your area, get after those agents that are sitting in the house. That’s your bread and butter. Hey, hi Will, it’s nice to meet you. How long you been with NVR Homes? Hey, where’s your place? Do you have plantation shutters? Would you like to get plantation shutters? And I always say, hey, know, my manufacturer gives me some leeway on some sample products.

I love to put some sample products in 10 of your windows. We’ve done that before for people and put plantation shutters in their house. That was in the neighborhood that we got 23 jobs from. It’s just the best $3,000 I ever spent. So I’m a big believer in the real estate agents. I’m a big believer in having someone like Will do your Google buy.

I respond, Will will ask me a question, and I’ll say, Will, you’re the pro, buddy. It’s working so far. Don’t ask me. You got that covered. But that’s my one thing I would say is that’s where it’s at. a $100 gift card or a $50 gift card doesn’t do anything. Go to $500. That’s my tip of the day, second tip of the day.

Will Hanke (18:10)

You

Ryan Gilberts (18:11)

What? I’ll go off that. There’s an organization here in town called MOR for Kids, so Missoula Organization of Realtors, and it’s a nonprofit for kids. And I am the only window covering person in that organization. And I reach 800 realtors. There’s 800 realtors in the Missoula account.

Joe Kendall (18:26)

Oof.

Ryan Gilberts (18:28)

It’s just insane. But I’m the one window covering guy and I’m there competing in all their nonprofit organizations and it’s fun for me. We do a charity kickball tournament. We do a charity golf tournament and we do a winter gala. I get the most donations in the kickball tournament. My team typically always wins in the golf tournament. And last year,

I spent the most at the charity and I got the most awards.

So that’s kind of how I shotgun blast my name out there.

Will Hanke (18:55)

Fantastic.

Joe Kendall (18:58)

Yep, I love it.

Will Hanke (18:59)

That’s really cool. love that collaboration.

Ryan Gilberts (18:59)

They all call me Shady Ryan

for a reason.

Joe Kendall (19:01)

I love it. like that. Shady Ryan. I like that.

Will Hanke (19:04)

That’s great. And

at the end of the day, you’re supporting something, right? So there’s that whole PR side of things too, where you can get a little bit of that out there.

Ryan Gilberts (19:12)

Exactly.

Joe Kendall (19:12)

That’s, and

Ryan’s right on with, what’s your Realtor Association name, Ryan?

Ryan Gilberts (19:18)

M-O-R.

Joe Kendall (19:18)

The moon. OK. So we have the Coastal Association of Realtors. Here you go. Every town you’re in has an association of realtors and you can be what’s called a whatever kind of member you are, Ryan. It’s not accessory member, but it has a name. That means you’re not a realtor. Thank you very much, Ryan. Yeah, you’re an affiliate member. you get and with that, Ryan, you also get right emails, phone numbers for everybody, every realtor in town.

Ryan Gilberts (19:19)

Mozilla organization of realtors.

an affiliate.

Yep, exactly.

Joe Kendall (19:43)

So

lots of marketing you can do with that.

Will Hanke (19:45)

Wow, that’s awesome. So cool, we talked to… Go ahead.

Ryan Gilberts (19:46)

and also building industry associations.

Joe Kendall (19:49)

Yes, yes, yes. Ryan, I’m gonna get off this phone, off this podcast here, and I’m gonna figure out how I can get a commercial job like that. My biggest commercial job so far is 17 roller shades at a restaurant. But that kind of stuff gets me excited. That gets me wound up.

Ryan Gilberts (20:04)

Yeah, yeah,

we got three more coming in.

Will Hanke (20:08)

I saw you.

Joe Kendall (20:09)

Ugh.

Will Hanke (20:09)

That’s

great. Joe, saw your brain ticking back there when he said it.

Joe Kendall (20:12)

my god, it’s crazy. You can actually see my brain right here. There

it is.

Will Hanke (20:16)

Yeah, so cool. talked about kind of collaborations and partnerships. Let’s switch and talk about the customer. What do you guys do to help build those relationships when it comes to getting into the home or even before you get into the home?

Joe Kendall (20:29)

So I’ll go first this time, OK. So the like to send.

Ryan Gilberts (20:30)

I’ll start. just kidding, Joe. You got it.

No, no, go ahead.

Will Hanke (20:32)

Ha!

Joe Kendall (20:38)

a video or two. If it’s a shutter job, we like to send a video or two. Like to send a link to our five star reviews beforehand. And then we really try, we do try to give a gift. Right now we’re giving away, it costs us about 40 bucks, but it’s a custom made cardboard box. I might have shown this to you well. It’s a custom made cardboard box, purple and yellow paper, and it has four rocks glasses in it, and they’re each engraved.

a palm tree, a setting sun. I can’t remember the other two. But given that as a gift and really, you you’re not going to get anything unless you ask for it. And when we give that gift, we like to say, hey, look, anybody ever talks about us, you know? And the thing is, is the kind of cool thing is anytime they get those glasses out and they have guests over, hopefully all come up in conversation. So that’s what we’re really trying to, you know, I’ve come up with the idea of

A $10 Starbucks card, if they lose that, who cares? But something that has value in their eyes, that’s what we’re going after for a gift when we ask those customers for the review and for the referrals.

Will Hanke (21:39)

That’s great. Love that. Ryan, how about you?

Ryan Gilberts (21:41)

So yeah, so as far as like gifts go, do like, if you know of anyone that needs a window coverings, I’ll do, I give a little gift card or not a gift card, but a little postcard. And there’s three options, like a, like a $50 gift card to Amazon or a hundred dollar gift card to a steak house that I did all their shades in.

or I have another a hundred dollar gift card to another buddy that owns a tap house. So, kind of something like that. It’s, it’s supporting my customers already and also trying to get more customers out there. But before I get into a house, the biggest thing that I’ve come to find out, because I’ll tell you guys, cause you see me on a screen. I’m six foot five and 285 pounds. I’m not a small person. So,

I always send an appointment reminder to people with this ugly mug and saying, Hey, I’m going to be at your doorstep. It takes a lot of hesitation off of people.

Will Hanke (22:34)

You

Joe Kendall (22:37)

Do you have like a height thing? Like you’re in a 7-Eleven doorway showing them how tall you are.

Ryan Gilberts (22:42)

You know I should, but we don’t need that.

Will Hanke (22:45)

Yeah.

Joe Kendall (22:45)

goodness, I love it, I love it.

Will Hanke (22:45)

That’s

I love the tips that you guys have shared. think those are great. Ryan, you mentioned the Amazon card. If somebody came to my house selling something and they mentioned that, I guarantee my wife would be all over that. I mean, she’s just ordering stuff every day off of there. So it’s interesting how far that can go for not a big spend. All right. So one other thing I wanted to ask about challenges.

Ryan Gilberts (22:58)

Right. Yep.

Will Hanke (23:09)

and maybe some solutions. What kind of challenges are you guys seeing out there when you’re trying to build those connections, grow your network, and for other people listening, maybe what are some ways that they could overcome those?

Ryan Gilberts (23:21)

So I can go because I’m the youngest probably in the industry on this podcast right now as far as being in business. My biggest thing is obviously competing. Obviously competing against the bigger names. Fortunately, I don’t have a made in the shade in my local area, but I do have that other cheap fish company that hasn’t

I wouldn’t say hasn’t stepped up in the realm of quality and customer service. But I always get with the realtors or with this other person like, hey, we had such and such company already do our shades. We already had this company do them. I already know this guy. So I mean, that’s my biggest hesitation. But then I come in and say, hey, you know what? That’s actually a shade that we also are a dealer for.

I can get that replaced for you. No problem. Get you a warranty issue taken care of. No problem. Because my competition didn’t want to call back or show up for a warranty appointment.

Will Hanke (24:14)

Great. Joe, how about you?

Joe Kendall (24:15)

lost them.

So one of the things that that one of my salespeople came to me with and were like, you know, how do I, know, bigger is better. Bigger means that they have more buying power. And I said, you know how to handle that, that question right there? How can I compete against 23rd day blinds or how can I compete against those guys? If you’re if you’re a small

and company you say, know what, it’s really, people probably wonder how can I compete against those big guys? And be honest, say, yeah, they probably buy the blinds for less than I do. But last time I checked, we don’t have a regional sales manager or regional divisional manager. We don’t have a regional vice president. We don’t have an office in Chicago. We don’t have this. We don’t have that. You know, I pay the same kind of bills they pay, but mine have a lot less zeros. So if you want someone that really knows the industry.

Ryan Gilberts (24:56)

and

Joe Kendall (25:07)

and can really

save you money, work with someone small and local. We’re here for you. And once you learn that objection, to get over that objection, the sky’s the limit. And that’s something that really, I always tell our people, remind them that there’s only six of us in the company. We don’t take retreats to Orlando to talk about how we’re going to sell this year. We might go out to

Ryan Gilberts (25:16)

you

.

Joe Kendall (25:32)

Alpac Steakhouse, but you know, that’s about it. But anyway, but that’s something that I think that people should get over when they’re a smaller company. When you’re a one person operation, is just remind them you don’t have regional vice presidents and director of sales and all that crud. So that’s the biggest thing I think is because that’s what they’re selling against you as. they’re so small. They’re so small, they can’t compete against us. That’s what they’re

saying. So say the exact opposite.

Will Hanke (25:59)

Yeah, I like that. When it comes to challenges, how about technology? How does that work in your world?

Joe Kendall (26:05)

Brian, lead boomerang, right buddy?

Ryan Gilberts (26:07)

Well I’m not really into the lead boomerang to be honest with you. I have used it. It’s just another Another thing I kind of I do solo tech and QuickBooks so You know, I still have the lead boomerang and it still transfers over into the solo tech I’m just not in lead boomerang daily

Joe Kendall (26:19)

Okay.

Ryan Gilberts (26:28)

I I’m a two man operation. I’m very mobile. I don’t have a storefront. I do have a office, but I’m not out at every day. So I’m out on the streets. If I’m in the office, I’m not really making money to be honest with you.

Joe Kendall (26:41)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So for me, the lead boomerang is everything. I can look at it. I can see calls that come in. With the lead boomerang customer tracking, I spend about three to five minutes in the morning updating our opportunity board. Today so far, we’ve gotten five phone calls. They’re all new leads.

Will Hanke (26:43)

How about you, Joe?

Joe Kendall (27:01)

with using lead boomerang and letting customers know, hey, the product’s been ordered. Hey, the product’s been shipped. Hey, it’s here. We have totally sliced and diced the incoming phone calls. Where’s my blind dad? was wondering when I was one. I was just curious. Those days are over for us. And I also have a second job running a furniture store.

So, and believe it or not, we actually, and this might sound terrible, but it’s the way it is. We found out when we got lead boomerang up and running with the opportunity page, we let our receptionist go. Just didn’t need her. Just didn’t need her. She was answering five calls a day saying, hey Joe, this customer wants to get an estimate. So I can handle five calls a day, you know, but we were getting 20 to 40 and so forth.

You know, it’s process to build it and to understand it, how it goes. And I’m a firm believer that I’m probably using 30 to 40 % of what lead boomerang can do. Whereas with my iPhone, I’m probably using 5 % or with my laptop, I’m using 5%. So I really feel like I’m getting a lot out of lead boomerang. And I have a State of the Union call with Will here on Friday, and we’re going to

Ryan Gilberts (28:04)

you

Joe Kendall (28:18)

spend some time

and to make sure I’m doing everything I should be doing with lead boomerang to get the most out of it. You know, we’re on a roll. We’re getting three to five, five star a week. And, you know, all of our business is not what I like. It’s what Google likes. Right, right. Well, does Google like this? Let’s do it. So that’s the biggest thing. Our automated responses, people will have conversations with our automated responses. God bless them.

Ryan Gilberts (28:20)

.

Will Hanke (28:33)

That’s right.

Ryan Gilberts (28:38)

.

Joe Kendall (28:43)

You know, thanks so much. Glad to hear from you, Joe. Looking forward to seeing you soon. You know, and you’re like, okay. But anyway, no, that’s the big thing. And I think the CRM is everything nowadays. That’s how the younger people work. They want text messages. They don’t want to wait. They don’t like phone calls, you know. But so that’s the big thing. Good CRM.

Ryan Gilberts (28:47)

.

Will Hanke (28:46)

You

Ryan Gilberts (28:55)

and

Will Hanke (29:00)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Ryan will need to get you some, some training and get you in there doing more of the stuff. Be happy to do that with you.

Ryan Gilberts (29:06)

That’s what I was just going to

Joe Kendall (29:07)

Brian, close

are you to big sky? Or skiing out there?

Ryan Gilberts (29:09)

About three and a

half hours three and a half hours away.

Joe Kendall (29:12)

All right, well, maybe we’ll work, we’ll figure something out. I’ll come out there and ski and teach you how to use lead boomerang.

Will Hanke (29:19)

There you go.

Ryan Gilberts (29:20)

you know where Yellowstone was filmed,

Joe Kendall (29:22)

What’s that, sir?

Ryan Gilberts (29:23)

You know where Yellowstone was filmed?

Joe Kendall (29:24)

couldn’t hear ya. Yeah!

Ryan Gilberts (29:25)

Yeah, I’m like 20 minutes from that. Yeah.

Joe Kendall (29:27)

That’s you.

how cool is that? How cool is that? That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So.

Will Hanke (29:33)

Very cool. All right, well one

last question for you guys. And then I wanna get some last thoughts from you. But I’m interested in what do you see as kind of the future of window treatment industry, where we’re going, and what can other business owners do to prepare for what’s coming up in Q2 and for the rest of the year?

Joe Kendall (29:53)

Wow.

Will Hanke (29:53)

You

Joe Kendall (29:53)

Ryan, go ahead and look at your crystal ball first.

Ryan Gilberts (29:54)

Well,

Will Hanke (29:56)

Hahaha

Ryan Gilberts (29:56)

yeah, I think, well, not I think, but I’m fairly certain that automation is going to just be the whole way of the future. You you’re going to get rid of the pulley strings. You’re going to get the automation systems, the motorization systems that are going to be standard. You’re not going to have the continuous cord loops, the beaded chains. You’re going to just have motorization. And with that, you’re going to have different price point motorizations.

Hopefully they get rid of the wand systems, but I think that’s just going to be kind of the way of the future. Shoot even films, window films that are going to be, you know, the transparent to the tint. That’s going to be a little bit more standardized, I think, especially with the way the Supreme Court’s Yep.

Joe Kendall (30:33)

Partner with somebody. Partner

with somebody as soon as you can. Partner with a company. We have one, Delmarva Tent, and they give me leads and I give them leads. But yeah, definitely. Sorry for jumping in, Brian, but yeah, I love that tent story.

Ryan Gilberts (30:47)

Go ahead Joe, let’s see what you got.

Will Hanke (30:48)

That’s great, Joe,

how about you and your crystal ball?

Joe Kendall (30:50)

I’m right with Ryan. Anytime you can, I think we’re going to start getting phone calls, a lot more phone calls about this phone call. I’m building a house and I want to have automation in my house and I haven’t broke ground. What do I need to do? So I would become familiar with the low voltage talk, try to get on any type of, whether it’s Alta Hunter, Norman, any type of low voltage talk, be familiar with that because you’re to get that call.

And you don’t want to go, I think you guys got to run speaker wire. So I just want to have a little bit of backstory, being able to talk about it, being able to talk about the distribution box and things like that. But I think that is what’s coming. And I think if to be prepared, one of the biggest home builders in my area is

sells window coverings to the customer. And they’re a Hunter dealer and a Norman dealer. And all it’s going to take is for these home builders who are so cookie cutter, they’re so buy the book, they don’t want any type of change, someone’s going to tell them, you know, we can make an extra $40,000 a house if we offer somebody a home, a smart home with pre-wired low voltage circuits to these windows. So I would just be ahead of that.

and be prepared for that. But I think I couldn’t agree with Ryan more that automation is going to be everything I would, I think in 20 years, you might even manual appliance might be gone in 20 years. Very good chance. So prepare for that and be ahead of that and have that knowledge in your back pocket when it happens.

Ryan Gilberts (32:11)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Will Hanke (32:22)

Love it, some great in-plate.

Ryan Gilberts (32:22)

Definitely future-proofing your

house.

Joe Kendall (32:23)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Will Hanke (32:24)

That’s great. And I would assume

that kind of stuff is increasing the value of your home nowadays, right, for people that are shopping for homes.

Joe Kendall (32:31)

Right. Right, right, right.

Will Hanke (32:32)

That’s great. Well, guys, thank you so much. Before we finish up here, just wanted to get any last thoughts for window treatment business owners that are out there struggling right now and want to obviously build their business over the rest of the year. What kind of advice would you give to them? We’ll start with Joe.

Joe Kendall (32:50)

No one’s gonna feel sorry for you.

It’s a tough world out there. You’re not going to be given anything. Become an expert. anytime you talk to people, there’s two great words to use, is unique and expert. People want unique products delivered by an expert. So those two words,

Will Hanke (32:55)

So you eat what you kill.

Joe Kendall (33:08)

are what I try to use all the time. You know, I don’t say salesman. I say expert. I don’t say, yeah, we have blinds. We have some very unique offerings. Separate yourself. But that’s, know, hey, listen, it’s not a cash cow. It’s work.

I can only imagine how far Ryan drives every day. But he’s working it and he’s doing it. But that would be my tip. Unique and expert are two words I would use as much as possible.

Will Hanke (33:39)

love that. Ryan is somebody who’s been in the industry for about what three years now. There’s people in your shoes or maybe even a little bit behind there. What advice would you have for them?

Ryan Gilberts (33:51)

Well, technically I’m fortunate that I have worked in the industry for almost 15 years. but I’ve owned the business on my own business for now three. biggest thing that I, I knew from when I went from here to here was honestly switching to my current website provider, throwing that one out there for you. Well,

Will Hanke (34:00)

Yeah.

Ryan Gilberts (34:11)

and

Will Hanke (34:12)

Thanks.

Ryan Gilberts (34:13)

Honestly, the marketing, making sure you look professional as a business and as a person. Anyone can slap a logo on the side of your van, but you need to know your product. Go out there, learn from your vendor reps. Get to know your vendor reps, learn from them. Start getting systems in place and getting your business a lot more efficient. So that way you’re not spending

four hours a day in your office grouping orders together because you want to save that $25 on a minimum.

Don’t jump over a dollar to save a dime.

Will Hanke (34:45)

Yeah.

I love that.

for sure, love that. Thank you guys so much for some incredible conversation today, I do appreciate it. Joe and Ryan, you guys have been amazing. As a listener, if you’ve been inspired to take your window treatment business to the next level, start applying some of these strategies right away. These guys have been doing this for quite a while, they know what works, take their advice and apply, I think is the best piece here.

Apply what you’re doing. If you love this episode, send it to a friend and don’t forget to click the subscribe button. We would love to make sure that you can hear all of our future podcasts as well. Ryan, Joe, thank you guys so much for taking some time out of your day to be with us.

Appreciate it guys. Thank you. We’ll catch you on the next one.

Joe Kendall (35:28)

OK.

Ryan Gilberts (35:28)

Thanks, Will.

Have good one.