In this episode of the Granta Podcast, we speak to the novelist and essayist Rachel Kushner, author of the books The Mars Room, The Flamethrowers, Telex from Cuba and The Hard Crowd. Her latest novel, Creation Lake, will be published in September 2024.

We discuss her story, ‘The True Depth of a Cave’, which appeared in Granta 167: Extraction, as well as the mysteries of prehistory and the variance between abstract and mimetic art in fiction.

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Leo Robson is a cultural journalist whose work has appeared in the London Review of Books, the New Yorker, and the New Left Review. 

Josie Mitchell is senior editor at Granta.