Real Talk with Rachael Podcast

This week on Real Talk with Rachael it's the final episode of my church series where we've been engaging in healthy conversations about church and leadership all while keeping our hearts pure in the process. While I'm a licensed professional counselor, I want to be clear that I am not professionally counseling you on this podcast today. My goal is to offer some pastoral counseling by providing you with a system to follow when you're walking through something hard in life through the acronym HEART.

• H - Healthy Order of Processing: Begin with God, seek support from trusted loved ones, consider professional help, and reserve online sharing for last. When you’re working through a past experience or emotion, start by giving yourself space to actually feel it. Many people tend to avoid or suppress their feelings, but there’s strength in feeling and acknowledging our experiences. Sometimes, our bodies even hold onto memories physically, and techniques like EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) can help release those memories without carrying the emotional weight.
• E - Examine: Explore personal triggers and trauma responses, understanding their root causes. This promotes healing rather than simply avoiding discomfort. Take time to notice what triggers you. You might feel a reaction in your body, like tension or discomfort, or you may go into “fix it” mode, trying to solve or dismiss the feeling quickly. Start observing your responses and consider how they affect you and those around you. Remember, self-awareness is key, especially if you’re in a leadership role. Being aware of your responses doesn’t disqualify you from being a leader—in fact, it makes you a stronger one.
• A - Allow Grief: Acknowledge grief as a natural, non-linear process and permit yourself the time and space to feel a range of emotions. Grief is a complex process full of sadness, anger, confusion, and even moments of joy. It’s okay to allow yourself to feel whatever comes up without judging it or putting it on a timeline. Let yourself enter that space of feeling, knowing that grieving well actually makes you healthier and stronger over time.
• R - Repent: Embrace self-reflection, addressing judgment or unforgiveness toward others or yourself. We’re all accountable as the church, not just those in the spotlight. Sometimes we need to turn inward and ask ourselves if we’re carrying judgments or bitterness. This one can be tough, especially when we’re hurt by others or witness people, especially leaders, stumble. It’s easy to point fingers, but true healing and strength come when we’re also willing to reflect on our hearts. This is about keeping our hearts clear and open and taking responsibility for our growth and healing.
• T - Take Care of Your Whole Self: Prioritize holistic self-care, including emotional, mental, spiritual, and physical health. Don't forget to tend to all aspects of our well-being—physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual. Life can be so busy that we often overlook self-care, thinking we don’t have time. But creating margin is crucial. That might mean scheduling in time for a walk, a creative outlet, or connecting with friends who “get it.” Find what fills you up and creates space for you to feel grounded.

• Screenshot the HEART acronym from today’s show notes as a reminder
• Get a copy of The Care and Counsel Bible
• Share this series or a favorite episode with someone who needs to hear it

The Care and Counsel Bible The Body Keeps the Score You can find a list of Christian counselors at The American Association of Christian Counselors or through Focus on the Family’s Christian Counselor Network.

Connect with Rachael: website | Instagram | Facebook

This week on Real Talk with Rachael, I'm chatting with my friends, Jeff and Terra Mattson. Jeff and Terra are authors of Shrinking the Integrity Gap: Between What Leaders Preach and Live, hosts of the Living Wholehearted Podcast, executive coaches, social entrepreneurs, and proud parents to two girls. Together, they co-founded the counseling and organizational development firm Living Wholehearted and a grassroots movement, Courageous Girls, that helps moms walk with their daughters in every stage of their growing years.

Jeff is also an organizational development specialist, while Terra is a licensed marriage & family therapist and keynote speaker. Whether through their podcast or their professional work, the Mattsons are committed to equipping individuals, families, and organizations to thrive.

• Integrity isn’t about achieving perfection; it’s an ongoing, daily commitment to align actions with values. Growth in integrity means recognizing where you fall short and working toward closing that gap.
• Leadership isn’t only for executives or public figures. If someone looks up to you—be it a sibling, friend, or colleague—you have a sphere of influence. Embrace the responsibility and impact that comes with it.
• Leaders, especially those in high-impact roles, often face challenges in aligning their personal lives with their public personas. Acknowledging this gap is the first step to growth and maturity in leadership. Recognizing when you need help and being quick to seek it doesn’t make you weak; it’s a sign of maturity. Healthy leaders get support to avoid larger issues and continue growing.
• Integrity doesn’t mean being flawless. Instead, it involves honestly owning your mistakes, making corrections, and allowing grace for yourself and others. Accepting the inevitability of imperfections allows you to lead authentically.
• Trauma is often misjudged as only extreme events, but even smaller disruptions, like frequent moves or emotional challenges in childhood, can leave lasting effects. Leaders should reflect on these potential impacts, as unresolved trauma can influence their leadership style and decision-making.
• Saying "no" can be difficult, especially for leaders used to shouldering responsibilities. However, stepping back not only benefits personal health but also empowers others to grow and contribute. Boundaries allow leaders to focus on areas where they can have the greatest impact.
• Many leaders carry hidden shame from past experiences or unmet expectations, which can affect how they interact with their team. Recognizing and addressing these feelings—especially those rooted in early life or trauma—can lead to a more authentic and effective leadership style.
• It’s crucial to build a sense of self that isn't tied to work or accolades. Leaders who understand their worth apart from external success are often more resilient and fulfilled, fostering a healthier work environment for all.
• Neuroscience shows that old neural pathways can be replaced through intentional practices and experiences. Repetition and small, steady changes are essential for rewiring the brain toward healthier beliefs.
• Feeling guilt for specific behaviors can be healthy, as it indicates moral awareness. However, ongoing shame (e.g., "I am bad") must be addressed, as it can hinder personal growth and relationships.
• Leaders need trusted spaces outside their professional environments to share struggles. Coaches, counselors, or a few close friends outside work systems can offer safety and objectivity. Confidentiality and reciprocity are crucial for these relationships. Healthy leadership involves welcoming correction and feedback, even when it feels uncomfortable.
• Leaders often struggle with being vulnerable because they are accustomed to being in control. It’s essential to develop the humility to ask for help and allow others to see and speak into their challenges.
• Leaders should prioritize character over charisma to avoid the pitfalls of seeking power or using others to meet personal needs. Systems that prioritize appearances without true accountability often result in harmful consequences.
• Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) involves grandiosity, entitlement, lack of empathy, and an image-focused mentality. Research shows narcissism can thrive in church systems because of the platforming of leaders and the absence of accountability structures. Churches need to resist “hero worship” of leaders and remember that Jesus is the only true hero.

• Ask the Lord about the blind spots you're missing
• Ask a trust person if they see any blind spots and listen to their feedback
• Take the Core Value Index Test
• Share the episode with a leader

Wholehearted Leadership Cohorts Let Us Prey: The Plague of Narcissist Pastors and What We Can Do About It You can find a list of Christian counselors at The American Association of Christian Counselors or through Focus on the Family’s Christian Counselor Network.

Connect with Jeff & Terra: website | Instagram | Facebook | podcast Connect with Rachael: website | Instagram | Facebook

This week on Real Talk with Rachael, I’m speaking with Dr. Josh Zeichik. Josh is the Director of Church Engagement for Focus on The Family. With experience in youth ministry and church planting, he oversees their pastoral ministry, The Focused Pastor. He holds a DMin in Biblical Counseling from Midwestern Baptist Theology Seminary.

• Although media coverage of prominent church leader failures affects trust in clergy, not all pastors are leading double lives. Most pastors are sincere in their service to God.
• The early church faced similar challenges, with warnings of false teachers and leaders who exploited people. Today, it's not necessarily a rise in such issues but increased awareness.
• Every pastor sins, but not every sin is the same. The way the church responds should depend on the severity of the issue, with criminal actions treated differently than personal failings.
• When church members experience hurt from pastoral leadership, it can lead to doubt, mistrust, and even cynicism. Doubt is natural, but the Bible encourages believers to remain steadfast in their faith and to show mercy to those struggling.
• The term "spiritual abuse" is frequently used, but "sinful pastoral leadership" may be a more accurate term to describe a spectrum of behaviors where pastors either exploit their position for personal gain or fail to live morally according to their teachings.
• Just like identifying counterfeit money, we must understand the biblical qualifications for pastors to discern unhealthy leadership. Most qualifications are based on character, not just skills. we often prioritize charismatic speakers, but Scripture highlights the importance of a pastor’s integrity, relationships, and spiritual life.
• Pastors must have a structure of accountability, like elders or deacons, who regularly check in on their personal and spiritual lives. Isolated pastors without accountability are in dangerous positions.
• It’s important to differentiate between personal preferences and clear sin when dealing with church leaders. Not every disagreement is a sign of sin.
• If a pastor refuses to repent privately, there is a biblical precedent for public confrontation. This isn’t gossip but a necessary step when sin is unaddressed.
• Congregants need to be in the Word to recognize false teaching. Knowing Scripture personally helps you validate what is taught in the church. We all have a role to play in studying the Bible. Don’t rely solely on Sunday sermons; engage with Scripture personally to grow in faith and discernment.
• Even when hurt by leadership, we are called to forgive. Holding onto bitterness can hinder spiritual growth, even if the pastor never seeks reconciliation.
• When dealing with victims of pastoral abuse, it's important to start with compassion, just as Jesus showed in Matthew 9. Even if a victim’s reaction may not be Christlike, their hurt is valid and should be acknowledged and heard with patience.
• The book of Jude offers vital guidance on addressing false leaders who misuse their authority. We must protect other victims while maintaining a spirit of mercy, and avoiding bitterness or vindictiveness.
• Even when justice feels delayed, God remains faithful. Trust that He will bring justice in His timing.

• Don't be afraid to ask good questions
• Share the resources at TheFocusedPastor.org
• Pray for your pastors

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This week on Real Talk with Rachael, I'm speaking with Max Lucado. Max is known for combining poetic storytelling and homespun humor with the heart of a pastor. His trade books all begin as sermon series at Oak Hills Church, and his sermons all start with Max asking himself this question: “What can I say on Sunday that will still matter on Monday?” He’s been dubbed “America’s Pastor” by Christianity Today, “The Best Preacher in America” by Reader’s Digest, and the “Ted Lasso of Pastors” by the Dallas Morning News. Max Lucado has penned more than 40 works of adult nonfiction, standing alongside dozens and dozens of bestselling children's books, gift books, Bible studies, commentaries, and collections. His books have been published in 56 languages worldwide and regularly appear on bestseller lists, including The New York Times, Publishers Weekly, and USA Today.

• Biblical teachings are meant to prepare, not scare. Focus on preparation, maintaining faith, and trusting God’s guidance rather than being overwhelmed by fear.
• Rather than fearing the end times or personal endings, view them as beginnings of something greater. This shift in perspective can bring peace and reduce anxiety about aging or the future.
• In moments of fear or uncertainty about the future, trust in God's character and the promise of eternal life by focusing on faith and spiritual growth rather than dwelling on fears.
• The concept of the rapture is meant to be comforting, offering hope and healing. Rather than focusing on fears of being left behind, we should see it as a moment of divine reunion and restoration.
• The rapture is described as the next major event on God's timeline, where believers will be taken up to avoid the chaos of the tribulation. This encourages believers to live in readiness, keeping faith and trust in God's plan.
• The Antichrist will emerge after the rapture, charming people and leading them during a time of chaos. The tribulation is a seven-year period of great suffering following the rapture. During this time, Satan will empower the Antichrist, but there will also be a Jewish revival led by 144,000 evangelists. This calls for believers to be prepared for difficult times while holding onto hope.
• Believers should test the teachings they receive, especially regarding end-times prophecy, to ensure they align with Scripture. If something doesn't feel right or biblical, it's okay to set it aside and trust that God will reveal truth in His timing.
• Upon death, believers enter paradise, a place of healing and peace, which is like the front porch of heaven. This encourages Christians not to fear death but to view it as a transition to eternal rest and joy.
• After the tribulation, Christ will return to reign on earth for a thousand years (the Millennium), followed by a final judgment. Believers will not face this judgment because their sins have been forgiven, reinforcing the importance of faith in Christ.
• H - Hang in there: Life's troubles are temporary compared to the eternal glory ahead. O - Overcome pessimism: Fight cynicism, especially with age, and embrace optimism. P - Pray expectantly: Focus prayers not just on personal needs but with the bold hope for Christ's return and greater things. E - Explore eternity: Keep the perspective that this life is temporary, and greater joy and fulfillment are promised in the next.

• Get a copy of Max's book What Happens Next, then share and discuss it with someone
• Become familiar with the end times timeline
• What's one thing God spoke to you in this episode? Process it by journaling or talking with a counselor

You can find a list of Christian counselors at The American Association of Christian Counselors or through Focus on the Family’s Christian Counselor Network. Join the Joy Mail community for monthly updates and exclusive resources by visiting RachelGilbert.com and clicking the freebies tab. Be sure to leave a review or share the episode on social media by tagging @RachaelJGilbert for your chance to win a copy of What Happens Next

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This week on Real Talk with Rachael I'm having a conversation with Dr. Robert Paul. Robert Paul is Vice President of the Focus on the Family Marriage Institute. He is both a marriage therapist and an accomplished speaker who presents regularly at professional conferences and enrichment events both nationally and internationally. He has co-authored six books, including “The DNA of Relationships,” with Drs. Gary and Greg Smalley, and “9 Lies That Will Destroy Your Marriage: And the truths that will save it and set it free,” with Dr. Greg Smalley. He is a former professor at Evangel University where he taught in both the biblical studies and psychology departments, specializing in Marriage and Family Counseling, Human Sexuality, and the integration of faith into all areas of life. Bob and his wife, Jenni, live in Springfield, Mo., have been married for over 43 years. They have four children and seven grandchildren.

• Addressing deep-seated desires and achieving relational success offers relief and freedom.
• Recognizing and breaking the reactive cycle in relationships can empower individuals to improve their dynamics by understanding and halting predictable conflict patterns.
• Group support can provide reassurance that marital challenges are universal and not unique.
• Faith and personal transformation, as highlighted by Robert's and his wife's journey, play a crucial role in sustaining relationships.
• Utilizing available resources for counseling and self-improvement, such as those mentioned in the episode, can be immensely helpful.
• Emotions are morally neutral and serve a purpose in signaling areas needing attention; understanding this helps in better managing them.
• The care cycle emphasizes the importance of balancing personal care with nurturing the relationship, leading to healthier interactions.
• Practical advice on nurturing oneself and the relationship, including suggestions for summer activities and self-care strategies.
• Recognizing the subtleties of negative thoughts and maintaining a 'no losers policy' promotes a healthier team dynamic in marriage.
• The need to build trust and address past relationship baggage and family influences for better current interactions.

• Take the Reactive Cycle Assessment
• Catch up on previous episodes
• Create a summer "being" list

You can find a list of Christian counselors at The American Association of Christian Counselors or through Focus on the Family’s Christian Counselor Network. Join the Joy Mail community for monthly updates and exclusive resources by visiting RachelGilbert.com and clicking the freebies tab

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If you’ve been around the show long, you might remember that God asked me to lay down the Talk Therapy episodes at the beginning of 2024. However, as I was out for a run the day after my 40th birthday, He dropped a word about finishing with excellence so strongly on my heart that I knew I had to share it with you in this episode.

How do we achieve excellence? To put it into simple words, do the right thing. Excellence is the result of caring about what we do, and of putting our very best effort into what we care about.

Key Verses:

Colossian 3:22-25 (MSG), "Servants, do what you’re told by your earthly masters. And don’t just do the minimum that will get you by. Do your best. Work from the heart for your real Master, for God, confident that you’ll get paid in full when you come into your inheritance. Keep in mind always that the ultimate Master you’re serving is Christ. The sullen servant who does shoddy work will be held responsible. Being a follower of Jesus doesn’t cover up bad work."

2 Timothy 4:7, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

Process: 

God, what are you asking me to finish with excellence?

Resource:

If you are not yet in our JOYmail community, I want to invite you to join today. Once a month I send an email with a personal note from me, favorite finds, podcast updates, and a free therapy resource. Go to rachaelgilbert.com and click the freebies tab to join the community.

This week on Real Talk with Rachael I'm chatting with Stefanie and Caleb Rouse. Stefanie and Caleb are dynamic relationship mentors and digital creators passionately guiding singles and couples toward fulfilling and resilient relationships anchored in faith. With their master’s degrees in marriage and family therapy with an emphasis in theology (Stefanie) and in education (Caleb), they offer tailored courses, mentorship, and guidance. These are all rooted in prayer, backed by training in psychology and biblical counseling, encouragement from Christ, and practical strategies for love that lasts. Speaking to an engaged audience across multiple social media platforms, Stefanie and Caleb provide daily insights into the transformative power of faith across all relationship stages. Their vision is a world where we learn to love each other out of God’s abundance of love, leading to impactful and joyous relationships.

• Stefanie and Caleb wrote Wholehearted Love for those who have put up barriers attempting to avoid disappointment or getting hurt. At some point, those barriers can spread to our relationship with God and stop us from experiencing His love like we did before. But He wants us to live wholeheartedly - a life where we are fully known, deeply loved, and vibrantly alive.
• "Wholehearted" love is all-encompassing. God loves all of you - even the parts you attempt to hide.
• When we experience trauma, we can develop the sense that we're not worthy of love. The beautiful truth of Christ is we cannot earn love because it is a gift He freely gives. However, it can be difficult to accept. To move to a place where we can receive love, we must allow God's truth to "rebreak" us into a reflection of His image.
• The lies we believe about ourselves can be deep-rooted and painful. Many of these lies are based on the responses of the people around us, so if the pain becomes too much, we may choose to hide behind a mask that ultimately isolates us, rather than engaging in vulnerability that would lead to fostering healthy relationships.
• You can retrain your negative thought patterns by engaging with God's Word as a habit. Express gratitude, start small, and ask for the Holy Spirit's guidance.

Take the Reactive Cycle Assessment and share it

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This week on Real Talk with Rachael I'm speaking with the authors of Pastors' Wives Tell All: Navigating Real Church Life with Honesty and Humor, Stephanie Gilbert, Jessica Taylor, and Jenna Allen. They are also the cohosts of the Pastors’ Wives Tell All podcast - a podcast by pastors’ wives for church leaders and anyone desiring to peek inside their proverbial glass houses. As best friends from three different churches and denominations, they are breaking down walls within the Church and crushing pastor wifey stereotypes with a little ministry therapy and a whole lot of Jesus—plus the occasional Instagram dance party!

• So often people pressure pastor's wives to meet certain expectations. When they don't, it can leave congregants feeling disappointed. The best way to not get lost in other's expectations of you is to remember who you are and who you belong to. We do not seek the approval of man, but rather to serve Christ.
• It's common for people to assume pastor's wives are too busy or that they have a large community they spend time with, but truthfully being a pastor's wife can be lonely. Support your pastor's wife by checking on her and including her in your events.
• When you're part of a pastor's family, it puts your life on display. People always seem to catch you in your worst moments and it can create disillusionment. The best solution is to create a new culture of vulnerability. Only then will walls start to break and change will happen.
• Seeking counseling is unfortunately still a taboo subject in the church. Some consider it a sign of weak faith and others believe that it's an attempt to replace God's counsel, but seeking therapy is not an either/or, it's a both/and. Faith is our foundation, but the Bible advises us to seek wise counsel. Lay down your pride and seek counseling from God and a professional therapist. What you don't talk about owns you.
• Changing the stigma around therapy in the church starts from the top. Your pastor is not a licensed counselor and there are times when it's wise to seek a licensed professional therapist.

• Do you have a negative stigma about seeing a counselor? Ask the Lord if He's directing you to see a counselor. You can find a list of Christian counselors at The American Association of Christian Counselors or through Focus on the Family's Christian Counselor Network.

Connect with Pastors' Wives Tell All: website | Instagram | Facebook Connect with Rachael: website | Instagram | Facebook

This week on Real Talk with Rachael in talking with Jess Connolly. Jess is the author or co-author of several books, including Wild and Free, You Are the Girl for the Job, and Breaking Free from Body Shame. Along with her husband, Nick, she planted Bright City Church in Charleston, South Carolina, where they live with their four children. Jess is a woman who wants to leave her generation more in awe of God than she found it. She is passionate about family, God's Word, and seeing women take their place in the kingdom.

• We live in a defeated acceptance of exhaustion. Living right now is too much. Life is tiring and we’re accepting defeat because we think this is just how things are.
• Women often feel they need permission to rest, but we don't need permission. God invites us to rest - He even commands it. He wants rest for us.
• There will always be more to do. Ask yourself if you need to see accomplishment more than you need to feel at home in your body and soul. Do we need acceptance from others more than we need communion with God, our bodies, and our people? God integrated rest into life. We work from rest, not rest from work. We’ll never be prepared if we don’t start from a place of rest.
• Spiritual exhaustion occurs anytime we trade abundance with God for obligation. We are not obligated to do things for God. He can act independently of us. God asks us to help and join in His good works, but His love for us is not based on our actions or inaction.
• Our society has reached a point where exhaustion is normal – maybe even something to be proud of. Yes, there are life factors that affect sleep, but many of us aren’t victims of fatigue, we’re volunteers. Consider this - would God praise you for working past the point of exhaustion or would He want you to be a good steward of your body and energy?
• There are a lot of practical ways to get more sleep like turning off the TV, putting the phone down, using blue light blocking glasses, or journaling. Pay attention to your pace during the day. Did you overcommit? Are you consistently feeling rushed? Notice the cues your body is giving you and give yourself what you need.
• Don't overcomplicate the sabbath. It's simply 24 hours of enjoying God and the life He has given us. How you enjoy Him is your choice, but don’t try to get ahead.

What area of rest do you need to lean into with the Lord and reevaluate this season? What beliefs do you have about rest and do those beliefs line up with God’s Word?

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This week on Real Talk with Rachael, I'm chatting with Calvin Burns. Calvin is a Licensed Professional Counselor in Austin, Texas, who is deeply committed to guiding individuals through their challenges with eating disorders, substance abuse, and trauma. His approach is built on a foundation of empathy, understanding, and a personal dedication to each client's journey.

• Calvin struggled with suicide and addiction until God blessed him with the opportunity to walk away from it, but walking away wasn't easy. Stopping his addiction felt like a significant loss, but the truth is the addiction was blocking what God had in store for him. 
• If you have chosen addictions that help you numb the hard things you're facing, choosing to stop will come with a lot of complex feelings. It's important to anchor yourself to things that have been proven true, right, and trustworthy.
• Calvin began his career counseling individuals with alcohol addiction but soon noticed similar thought processes in people who struggled with eating disorders and body image. When we face hardships, it's easier to numb through a variety of addictions rather than process our thoughts and feelings. It can be more complicated when it comes to food addiction as you can't avoid eating like you would other substances.

• Disordered eating is a pattern of eating habits or an approach to food that is inconsistent or driven by insecurity, fear, or uncertainty. Disordered eating is the first stage of an eating disorder when those insecurities become identity.

• Behind most men struggling with eating disorders is a fear of weakness. Their value gets distorted and they believe that their strength is their worth. But it's not limited to men. Both men and women struggle because of a desire to be in control or desired, sometimes it's an attempt at emotional management, and other times it can be a struggle to ask for help.
• If there is a man in your life struggling with body image issues, be consistent and direct in addressing him about it. 
• If you are struggling with body image, it can get better. You can have a life where you enjoy yourself and your body. When you can be present in your life, your relationships will be better.
• Community and support are crucial when you're working to change your thought processes around body image. You will not always have the internal motivation you need to succeed.
• If you see that someone you love would benefit from counseling, practicing vulnerability yourself is a great invite for them to feel comfortable opening up.
• Men can feel that showing emotions is a sign of weakness, but true strength is acknowledging what’s wrong and the willingness to do something about it. Change offers growth, opportunity, and momentum.
• Suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character, character produces hope, and hope doesn’t lead us to shame. Our hope in a good God that loves us and is for us is everything.

   

What suffering have you endured? Have you allowed Jesus as your high priest to embed hope in your heart in the darkest situation?

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