In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Frank von Hippel—physicist, diplomat, policy-maker, architect of disarmament treaties, and co-founder of Princeton’s Program on Science and Global Security. One of the most influential voices in the history of nuclear arms control, von Hippel worked hand-in-hand with Soviet scientists to reduce the nuclear arsenals of both countries. He’s sounding the alarm about the state of nuclear diplomacy today. Von Hippel explains what’s at stake when policymaking loses its scientific foundation—and how to rebuild.

Von Hippel reflects on a career spent navigating the space between scientific expertise and geopolitical brinkmanship: from citizen-driven movements that helped shift U.S. nuclear posture in the 1980s, to negotiating with Gorbachev, to the ongoing dangers posed by nuclear modernization and renewed great-power rivalry. Von Hippel shows us not only how policy changes happen, but how fragile progress can be.

The conversation touches on the great questions of today’s nuclear landscape. What does deterrence theory assume about human behavior? How do weapons labs think about nuclear testing? Why has China altered its long-held posture of nuclear minimalism? And what does it mean to rebuild a knowledge-based policy system in an era of deep political polarization?

Von Hippel also discusses the vulnerabilities of civilian nuclear power systems, lessons from Fukushima, and the long, troubled legacy of plutonium reprocessing—an issue that continues to shape global nuclear security debates far beyond the weapons complex.

This episode is a reminder that experts, citizens, and institutions all play a role in reducing nuclear dangers. Progress has never been inevitable—but neither is backsliding. As von Hippel notes, periods of cynicism and misinformation have historically been followed by stronger public engagement and reform. The task now is to stay engaged long enough for that next turn.

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Timestamps

00:00 – The return of Cold War–era tensions and the shrinking space for science-based policymaking

02:18 – Indiscriminate deregulation and the challenge for the next generation of scientist-advocates

05:22 – Star Wars, ballistic missile defense, and how scientists reshaped U.S.–Soviet perceptions of nuclear war

09:54 – Behind the scenes: von Hippel’s advisory role with Gorbachev and the push for a nuclear test moratorium

13:39 – The road to the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and why testing still matters today

16:40 – Deterrence theory, risks of accidental war, and whether nuclear weapons are truly necessary for stability

20:57 – China’s evolving nuclear posture and the complexities of three-way deterrence

25:55 – No-first-use policy debates and how U.S. allies shape American nuclear doctrine

27:46 – Civilian nuclear power: Fukushima lessons, regulatory capture, and spent-fuel vulnerabilities

33:35 – Plutonium reprocessing, proliferation risks, and the political economy of nuclear waste

Bonus Content for All Subscribers: Frank von Hippel on Family Legacy, the Manhattan Project, and Becoming a Citizen-Scientist

In this extended conversation, von Hippel shares a personal account of his grandfather’s role in the Manhattan Project—and how earlier experience with chemical weapons shaped his views on the moral obligations of scientists. He reflects on his own path from particle physics to public policy during the Vietnam War, and the rise of student-driven scientific activism that helped reshape congressional and executive science advising. These stories offer a rare, intimate look at how individual scientists navigate the responsibilities that come with knowledge and influence.

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