Reckoning with Jason Herbert

This week Kevin Rusnak, Tyler Peterson, and Michael Bazemore drop into talk about the Cold War, daredevils, and the birth of the Space Program.  We have a lot of fun talking about the men and women who made NASA and maybe the coolest movie poster of all time. 

This week poet and screenwriter Jimmy Santiago Baca joins Jimmy Patiño and me to talk about his 1993 epic Blood In Blood Out. We talk about Jimmy's life story, the challenges facing Chicanos in the 70s & 80s and the film's legacy today. This is a special pod. Hope you like it.

About our guests:
Jimmy Santiago Baca is a poet and activist of Chicano and Apache descent and author of Martin and Meditations on the South Valley (1987), which received the 1988 Before Columbus Foundation’s American Book Award in 1989. In addition to over a dozen books of poetry, he has published memoirs, essays, stories, and a screenplay, Blood In Blood Out (aka Bound by Honor) (1993), which was  directed by Taylor Hackford.

Jimmy Patiño seeks to critically excavate alternative imaginings of democratic practice among aggrieved communities in the midst of global capitalism. Concentrating on Mexican-origin and broader Latino/a/x communities at the U.S. Mexico Border and in major U.S. urban settings, his work attempts to dialog about the ways that concepts of race, gender and nation create hegemonic class disparities AND formulate an array of identities that mobilize social movements and initiate class struggles on multiple fronts. His first book, Raza Sí, Migra No: Chicano Movement Struggles for Immigrant Rights in San Diego asserts that important contingents of Mexican-origin activists in the U.S. engaged, across generations, the crisis over the “illegal alien“ through attempts at organizing the Mexican-origin community across differences of national affiliation and citizenship status. Focusing on San Diego due to its vital positioning as both urban and border space where consistent migration and race-based border policing has occurred, the project illuminates a serious challenge to deportation-oriented immigration policies between 1968 and 1986 through the ideological prism of Chicano self-determination. He is now working on a number of other projects, including a study that investigates the conceptualization and historical practice of solidarity primarily through the lens of African American, Chicana/o/x, and Puerto Rican sites of struggle in the twentieth century. Important to this investigation are the ways regional differences and geo-historical contexts facilitated articulations of Black-Brown/Afro-Latinx diasporic solidarities and how these articulations led to counter hegemonic activities and theories of revolution across local, national and transnational boundaries. Through a relational and comparative framework, the study will ground these analyses in historical activities in the Midwest, Texas, California and New York in the burgeoning Black and Brown Power movements at the mid to late 20th century. His broader research and teaching interests include Comparative Ethnic Studies, Chicano/a-Latino/a History, diaspora/transnationalism/borderlands, social movements and political mobilizations, and Cultural Studies.

This week Greg Eghigian drops in to talk about Steven Spielberg's first extraterrestrial film and his new book charting the global history of UFO sightings. We get into the histories behind the sightings, how the Cold War affected how we think about space aliens, and whether or not one should put gravy on Devil's Tower.

About our guest:
Greg is a professor of history and bioethics at Penn State University. A historian of both the human sciences and modern Europe, he is particularly interested in how societies grapple with the questions and problems associated with modernity through the vehicles of science, technology, and medicine. His research has largely focused on the nature of power and the relationship between the state, science, and medicine in understanding and managing things such as disability, deviance, criminality, mental illness, and security. He regularly writes articles and present papers on the general history of madness and psychiatry. In recent years, however, his interests have moved into studying the history of supernatural and paranormal phenomena. 

This week Jamie Goodall joins #HATM regulars John Wyatt Greenlee and Leah Lagrone to get to the bottom of a serious question: to which generation does The Goonies belong. We are up to no good in this episode and even through in some pirate history to boot. HATM never says die.

About our guests:
Dr. John Wyatt Greenlee is  a medievalist and a cartographic historian. His academic research is primarily driven by questions of how people perceive and reproduce their spaces:  how movement through the world — both experiential and imagined — becomes codified in visual and written maps. You can find him on twitter at @greenleejw

 Dr. Leah LaGrone is an assistant professor of history and public history director. She graduated from Texas Christian University in Fort Worth, Texas, with a PhD in history focused on borderlands, labor, and gender studies in early 20th century. Her research examines state legislation and the discourse on minimum wages for women, specifically the connections of sex work with low wages. Her current book project, “A Woman’s Worth: How Race and Respectability Politics Influenced Minimum Wage Policies,” demonstrates that the politics around race and the minimum wage for women drove conversations among labor, politicians, and progressive reformers about the future of white supremacy in Texas.


Dr. Jamie L.H. Goodall is a historian at the U.S. Army Center of Military History in Washington, D.C. All views expressed on my website are my own and are not reflective of my employer, the U.S. Army, or the Department of Defense. She also teaches part-time at Southern New Hampshire University in their College of Online & Continuing Education. She is the author of Pirates of the Chesapeake Bay: From the Colonial Era to the Oyster Wars (Charleston, SC: The History Press, 2020), National Geographic’s Pirates: Shipwrecks, Conquests, and their Lasting Legacy (Washington, D.C.: National Geographic, 2021), Pirates and Privateers from Long Island Sound to Delaware Bay (Charleston, SC: The History Press, 2022), and The Daring Exploits of Black Sam Bellamy: From Cape Cod to the Caribbean (Charleston, SC: The History Press, 2023).

This week Julio Capó, Jr. drops in to talk about The Birdcage. We get into Robin Williams' queer performances, what this film meant then, and what it means now. We also talk about Julio's scholarship of Miami's immigration and LGBTQ+ history, along with our mutual love of Florida. One of the best pods we've ever done. I hope you enjoy.

About our guest:
Professor Capó is a transnational historian whose research and teaching interests include modern U.S. history, especially the United States’s relationship to the Caribbean and Latin America. He addresses how gender and sexuality have historically intersected with constructions of ethnicity, race, class, nation, age, and ability. His first book, Welcome to Fairyland: Queer Miami before 1940 (UNC Press, 2017), highlights how transnational forces—including (im)migration, trade, and tourism—to and from the Caribbean shaped Miami’s queer past. The book has received six awards and honors, including the Charles S. Sydnor Award from the Southern Historical Association for the best book written on Southern history. His work has appeared in the Journal of American History, Radical History Review, Diplomatic History, Journal of Urban History, Journal of American Ethnic History, Modern American History, GLQ, H-Net, American Studies, and several volumes.

Capó’s research extends to his commitment to public history and civic engagement. He curated “Queer Miami: A History of LGBTQ Communities” for History Miami Museum (open from March-September 2019) and participated in a National Park Service initiative to promote and identify historic LGBTQ sites and contributed a piece on Miami’s queer past for its theme study. Prior to entering graduate school, he worked as a broadcast news writer and producer, and his work has appeared in several outlets such as The Washington Post, Time, The Miami Herald, and El Nuveo Día (Puerto Rico).

Capó is the recipient of several awards including the Audre Lorde Prize from the Committee on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender History and the Carlton C. Qualey Award from the Immigration and Ethnic History Society. He currently serves as the co-chair of the Committee on Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender History and on the Editorial Board for the Journal of American History.

This week Max Felker-Kantor and I talk about what may be the world's most unlikely history movie: 21 Jump Street. We talk about the real-life attempts to embed police officers undercover in schools, the rise and fall of D.A.R.E., and the role DARE played in creating the carceral state. This is such a surprising episode with some real revelations and Max is an awesome guest. I hope you dig it.

About our guest:
Max Felker-Kantor is an associate professor of history at Ball State University. He teaches courses in twentieth-century American and African American history. His research explores policing, race, policing, politics, and cities since World War II. His first book, Policing Los Angeles: Race, Resistance, and the Rise of the LAPD (University of North Carolina Press, 2018) explores policing and antipolice activism in Los Angeles from the Watts uprising to the 1992 Los Angeles Rebellion. His second book, DARE to Say No: Policing and the War on Drugs in Schools, is a history of the DARE Program and will be published by the University of North Carolina Press in 2024. He is currently working on a new project on the history of the Los Angeles Police Department’s Rampart Scandal and the origins of twenty-first century policing. His work has been published in the Journal of Urban History, Modern American History, Journal of Civil and Human Rights, Boom California, and the Pacific Historical Review, as well as a range of other academic and popular outlets.

This week Liz Covart drops in to talk with Kelsa and I about the final episode of Franklin, along with her thoughts on the show as it was. We get into the diplomatic manuevering at Paris, Liz's Codfish moment, the brigand that was William Augustus Bowles and ask if the French lost the American Revolution.

About our guest:
Liz Covart is a historian of early America who practices scholarly history, public history, and digital humanities, primarily as the Founding Director of Colonial Williamsburg Innovation Studios at the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation. She is the creator and host of the incredible history podcast, Ben Franklin's World.

This week marine biologist and world reknowned shark expert Melissa Cristina Márquez dives in to talk all things Jaws. We talk about her career as a scientist, the role of sharks in the ecosystem, and the impact the book and film had on global shark populations. This is a different look for HATM and a lot of fun talking to an inspiring scholar. We're gonna need a bigger pod.

About our guest:
Known as the "Mother of Sharks," Melissa Cristina Márquez is a Latina marine biologist and conservationist who studies sharks and their relatives (the skates, rays, and chimaeras- collectively, this groups of animals are known as 'Chondrichthyans'). Márquezspecifically studies their habitat use (why they are where they are) and how their portrayal in the media influences attitudes towards marine predators and conservation initiatives. She founded The Fins United Initiative (TFUI; www.finsunited.co.nz) a program that introduces audiences worldwide to the diverse sharks and scientists who study them. You may have seen her on Shark Week or watched her TEDx talk on Youtube, "Sharks & Female Scientists: More Alike Than You Think." She is also a freelance wildlife writer and regularly covers marine science in regards to sharks as a Forbes contributor. You can follow Melissa's worldwide science communication efforts on her Twitter (@mcmsharksxx) or Instagram (@melissacristinamarquez) and learn more about her research and outreach there.  

Listen. You don't need to have watched the Franklin series at this point. Listen to THIS POD. This one. Everything you need is here. We've got Kelsa Pellettiere. We have Michael Hattem. We have JOANNE FREEMAN. We have colonial ideologies and diatribes on where an American Revolution series should go. We have disappointment in Michael Douglas. We have fart jokes. We have codfish (you'll see). Easily one of the most fun conversations of my life. Enjoy.

About our guests:
Kelsa Pelletiere is the guest host for the duration of the Franklin podcast miniseries. I sought out someone who is an absolute expert on the man and his life and seemingly everyone came back with Kelsa. She is a doctoral candidate in history at the University of Mississippi. Her research focuses on early diplomatic history in the United States, specifically Benjamin Franklin and the American Revolution. Her teaching interests include eighteenth, nineteenth, and twentieth-century American history; Revolutionary America; U.S. diplomacy; and the Atlantic world.

Michael Hattem is an American historian, with interests in early America, the American Revolution, and historical memory. He received his PhD in History at Yale University and am the author of Past and Prologue: Politics and Memory in the American Revolution (Yale University Press, 2020) and The Memory of ’76: The Revolution in American History (Yale University Press, 2024). He has taught History and American Studies courses at The New School and Knox College.

Joanne Freeman specializes in the politics and political culture of the revolutionary and early national periods of American History.  She earned her Ph.D. at the University of Virginia.  Her most recent book, Affairs of Honor: National Politics in the New Republic (Yale University Press), won the Best Book award from the Society of Historians of the Early American Republic, and her edited volume, Alexander Hamilton: Writings (Library of America) was one of the Atlantic Monthly’s “best books” of 2001.  Her current project, The Field of Blood: Congressional Violence in Antebellum America, explores physical violence in the U.S. Congress between 1830 and the Civil War, and what it suggests about the institution of Congress, the nature of American sectionalism, the challenges of a young nation’s developing democracy, and the longstanding roots of the Civil War.

This week Kelsa and I ask the tough questions about the series: Are they spending too much time on Temple? Is Lafayette the best character? How will they resolve the series? Which Founding Father would have had an OnlyFans account? Stick around for the wildest discussion on the American Revolution you've ever heard.