Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

🎙️ Reckoning with Legacy — Dobson, MacArthur, and the Future of the Church with Special Guests Lisa Sharon Harper and Joe Smith

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Dobson and MacArthur shaped a movement. Now it's time to ask: at what cost?

✨ Episode Summary

In this powerful roundtable conversation, host Corey Nathan is joined by author and public theologian Lisa Sharon Harper and pastor Joe Smith to explore the complex legacies of James Dobson and John MacArthur—two towering figures in American Evangelicalism who recently passed away.

What starts as a reflective discussion on personal experiences with Dobson’s and MacArthur’s teachings evolves into a profound analysis of spiritual formation, systemic violence, and the urgent need for a new way forward in faith communities.

Together, the guests courageously confront the intersections of race, gender, theology, and power—and what it means to heal, both personally and as a collective.

⏱️ Timestamps
Time
Topic
00:00
Introduction to the episode & guests
01:00
Lisa Sharon Harper on her spiritual beginnings
03:00
Legacy and impact of James Dobson
08:00
Dobson’s theology of discipline and its cultural roots
14:00
The trauma of “biblical” corporal punishment
20:00
Confessions of former Dobson followers — personal growth and regret
25:00
John MacArthur's institutional power and theological rigidity
30:00
Colonialism and the colonization of scripture
36:00
Reading scripture through empire vs. liberation
44:00
Who benefits from dominant theological frameworks?
48:00
Embracing humility and paradigm shifts in theology
54:00
Stories of change: how family and love reshape theology
1:02:00
Creating soft landing spaces for theological transformation
1:08:00
Substack, Freedom Road, and Lisa’s ongoing work
1:10:00
Final reflections on urgent action, humility, and grace
🧠 Key Takeaways

  • Dobson’s influence wasn’t just theological—it had lasting psychological, cultural, and political ramifications, particularly around corporal punishment.

  • John MacArthur's legacy is marked by strict dogmatism and theological frameworks that protect power structures.

  • Colonial frameworks of reading the Bible have displaced the voices of those who were closest to the original context of scripture.

  • Transformation is possible, but it requires humility, relationships, and spaces where people can ask hard questions without fear.

  • Urgency matters — personal and institutional change cannot come at the cost of marginalized communities' well-being.

    🔥 Notable Quotes

    🗣️ "Dobson taught us to break children like we break horses. But what does that say about our own brokenness?" — Lisa Sharon Harper

    🗣️ "Scripture can't only be understood one way across all time and cultures—that's not reverence, that's colonialism." — Joe Smith

    🗣️ "People's freedom can't wait for our paradigm shift." — Lisa Sharon Harper

    📚 Resources & Mentions

    • Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World, and How to Repair It All by Lisa Sharon Harper - lisasharonharper.com/fortune

    • If God Still Breathes, Why Can’t I? by Dr. Angela Parker - www.eerdmans.com/9780802879264/if-god-still-breathes-why-cant-i

    • Lisa's Substack post on the passing of James Dobson - substack.com/home/post/p-171912453

      🙌 Connect with the Guests

      • Lisa Sharon Harper

        Substack - lisasharonharper.substack.com
        Instagram - www.instagram.com/lisasharper

      • Joe Smith

        Meizon Church GNV - www.meizonchurch.com
        Instagram - www.instagram.com/therealjoe.smith

        📣 Calls to Action:

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        ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

        ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

        ✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

        ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

        🔗 Connect on Social Media:

        Corey is @coreysnathan on...

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            • Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨
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