Religion To Reality

What does it really mean for the Church to walk together — and what do Catholics in Brooklyn actually say they need? Fr. Joseph Gibino, pastor, vicar, deacon director, and co-director of Brooklyn's Synod on Synodality, pulls back the curtain on what the faithful are really asking for, and why the answer might surprise you. From family prayer to sacramental living to the radical act of listening without an agenda, this conversation is a hopeful, grounded look at where the Church is headed.

Fr. Joseph Gibino is pastor of St. Charles Borromeo Parish in Brooklyn Heights and administrator of St. James Cathedral. He serves the Diocese of Brooklyn as Vicar for Evangelization and Catechesis, Director of the Permanent Diaconate Program, and co-directed the Diocese's Synod on Synodality alongside Sister Mary Ann Seton LoPiccolo. He is also adjunct faculty at St. Joseph's Seminary and — by his own description — the diocese's chief "party planner" and wildfire put-outer.

Start Praying as a Family — Where to Begin

Fr. Joe offers this simple on-ramp for families who feel disconnected from faith at home:

The Three Things Brooklyn Catholics Said They Need

"The fruit of good listening is the Holy Spirit — because until we drown out all the other voices, how can we hear the authentic voice of the Spirit?" — Fr. Joe Gibino (00:13:00)

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Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality. 

What if the biggest obstacle to ministry isn't a lack of resources, programs, or content — but a missing system for actually knowing the people in front of you?

In this bonus episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich sit down with Josh Packard, sociologist of religion and co-founder of Future of Faith, for a wide-ranging conversation about one of the most urgent challenges facing the Church today: how to do genuine relational ministry at scale.

Drawing on years of research data and his experience at Spring Tide Research Institute and NCEA, Josh explains why trust in institutions is collapsing — and why the only antidote is time spent in a real, consistent relationship. He introduces practical tools anyone can download free at futureoffaith.org, shares why Gen Z isn't "leaving the church" (their parents already did), and makes a compelling case for why AI will only make human connection more, not less, essential.

If you work in ministry, Catholic education, or any field that depends on reaching young people, this episode is required listening.

Josh Packard is a sociologist of religion and a former professor at the University of Northern Colorado, where he taught applied sociology. He was the founding executive director of Spring Tide Research Institute, one of the most respected sources of data on youth and faith in the United States. He is now co-founder of Future of Faith, a nonprofit dedicated to helping ministry leaders build scalable relational tools grounded in a theology of sacred listening.

1. Trust has collapsed — and that changes everything
2. Relational ministry needs a system, not just good intentions
3. The Text to Connect tool
4. Belonging before believing — and time before truth
5. Gen Z didn't leave — they were never there
6. The Church's strongest offering may be its most overlooked
7. AI will deepen — not solve — the relational challenge

 

For sharing on social media or in your community:

"I want to be useful, not interesting. — Josh Packard"

"Belonging comes before believing. It goes time, trust, truth. — Josh Packard"

"The church is often answering questions that nobody is asking. — Fr. John"

"They're not leaving the church. Their parents left. — Josh Packard"

"There are armies of PhDs who are not trying to make Instagram better. They're trying to make you look at Instagram more. — Josh Packard"

"If we spend enough time with you, if we get to know you, if we're in a relationship with you, we can build trust with you — and then I can get to share with you the truth that is so beautiful that I want you to know. — Josh Packard"

Future of Faith

futureoffaith.org

Sign up for the newsletter to receive updates on new tools and research. (Josh guarantees it will contain the most emojis of any newsletter you receive this year.)

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Learn more about our work: Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.

What happens when the Church you love has also hurt you? For many Catholics, there's no safe space to hold both truths at once, until now. In this powerful bonus episode, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich talk with Paul Fahey, licensed counselor, catechist, and host of the Third Space Podcast, to unpack what spiritual abuse really looks like, why so many Catholics unknowingly surrender their freedom, and how genuine listening may be the most prophetic act the Church can offer right now. 

[00:00] — Introducing Paul Fahey Paul shares his background: eight years as a parish Director of Religious Education, husband and father of five, and now a licensed counselor in Michigan.

[01:30] — From Pope Francis Generation to The Third Space Paul co-founded the Pope Francis Generation Podcast with Dominic Dusa of Smart Catholics after unexpectedly leaving his parish job. As his work with abuse survivors deepened, he began noticing gaps between Pope Francis' teaching on human dignity and his governing decisions — prompting a full rebrand toward a podcast centered on Christ in the vulnerable and marginalized.

[06:00] — What Is "The Third Space"? Inspired by a conversation with mentor Monica Pope, Paul identified a void: survivors of Church harm are met either with Catholic defensiveness or with "why do you even stay?" The Third Space holds both — a place for people who want congruence between their experience of harm and their experience of good in the Church.

[07:45] — Who Is This Podcast For? Survivors of clerical sexual abuse, yes — but also the much broader category of spiritual abuse. Paul cites research from Dr. Lisa Oakley (UK) suggesting roughly 75% of Christians have experienced coercion or manipulation in their church communities. His audience is anyone harmed by the Church, and anyone with ears to hear the Gospel as told by those who've been hurt.

[10:00] — Why Podcasting? More than convenience — podcasting allows for live dialogue and spontaneous vulnerability that writing simply can't capture. Paul describes it as closer to leading RCIA or a small group than publishing an article.

[13:00] — Is the Church Doing Podcasting Well? A candid take on the lay-driven nature of Catholic media — and the troubling amount of spiritually harmful content circulating under the Catholic label. Bad Catholic content isn't poorly produced; it's content that misrepresents God, misrepresents the Church's teaching, and coerces consciences.

[16:30] — Defining Spiritual Abuse Paul walks through the core definition: a pattern of coercive or controlling behavior in a religious context, using spiritual authority to control others. Key markers include claiming something is a mortal sin for another person, presenting personal opinion as Church teaching, or using religious fear to manipulate behavior.

"If you have a podcast, you're putting yourself in a position of authority — and if you're using that to get people to change their behavior rather than to present the Gospel and give them space to wrestle with it, you've moved into spiritual coercion."

[22:00] — The Appeal of Surrender Many Catholics — perhaps all of us to some degree — are tempted to hand their freedom over to rules or authority figures. Paul reflects honestly on seeing this tendency in himself, and how mature conscience formation requires taking personal responsibility.

[25:00] — Father John's "Fenced Playground" Story Children in an unfenced playground huddle in fear; children in a fenced playground spread out freely. The insight: parameters don't restrict freedom — they create it. Religious structures, when used rightly, do the same.

[28:00] — Spiritual Warfare, Fear, and the Devil as Scapegoat Can spiritual warfare language become a bypass — a way to avoid personal responsibility? Paul draws on René Girard's scapegoat mechanism: using "the devil" to avoid accountability is the devil's playbook. The demonic is found in the scapegoat mechanism itself.

"If talking of the devil leads to scapegoating, it's harmful. If it leads us to actually work against abusive systems, that's a proper way to understand it."

[39:30] — Scripture, Tradition, and Experience in Tension Paul resists pitting lived experience against Scripture and Tradition — instead, he draws on Pope Francis' early Jesuit writing: realities are more important than ideas. Living in that tension, with expectation that the Holy Spirit will do something creative, is the work of synodality.

[43:00] — How Paul Measures Success Not downloads. Paul measures success by individual conversations — people who say, "You gave me the language to understand what happened to me," or "I finally don't feel alone."

[47:00] — "The Glory of God Is Man Fully Alive" Theosis — our divinization, our transformation into Christ — means being fully alive is giving God glory. This is not an intellectual endeavor. It is total personal transformation.

[48:30] — What Surrender Looks Like in Paul's Life Showing up in prayer as he actually is, not performing. Trusting his desires as the Lord moves through them — drawing on St. Ignatius' Discernment of Spirits: the good spirit moves those close to God through drawing and inspiration, not fear.

[51:00] — Is Spiritual Abuse Perennial or New? Perennial — but modern communications have dramatically amplified our capacity for harm. The response from Catholic Social Teaching is the virtue of solidarity: a personal commitment to human dignity and a social responsibility to dismantle structures of sin.

[55:30] — The Prophetic Act of Listening Father John argues the most prophetic witness the Church can offer right now is listening without agenda. Paul grounds this in Pope Francis' concept of accompaniment and Carl Rogers' person-centered counseling — empathy, genuineness, and unconditional positive regard create the very conditions where people naturally heal and grow.

Paul Fahey is a limited licensed counselor in the state of Michigan and the host of the Third Space Podcast. A former Director of Religious Education at a Catholic parish, Paul transitioned into counseling with a specialized focus on spiritual abuse, both individual experiences of it and the systemic structures that enable it. He creates workshops for church leaders on recognizing spiritually abusive systems and works individually with survivors of Church harm.

"If you have a podcast, you're putting yourself in a position of authority — and if you're using that to get people to change their behavior rather than to present the Gospel and give them space to wrestle with it, you've moved into spiritual coercion." — Paul Fahey [16:30]

"Belonging comes first — before right belief and right behavior. If I make right belief the litmus test for belonging, I've undermined the Gospel." — Paul Fahey [55:30]

"If talking of the devil leads to scapegoating, it's harmful. If it leads us to actually work against abusive systems, that's a proper way to understand it." — Paul Fahey [28:00]

"The glory of God is man fully alive — and me being fully alive is me being transformed into Christ. This is not an intellectual endeavor. This is about total personal transformation." — Paul Fahey [47:00]

"You've given me the language to understand my own experiences. And now I don't feel alone in them." — A listener, as recalled by Paul Fahey [43:00]

"I still catch myself in prayer — performing. Not being able to show up as I am and let the Lord meet me there." — Paul Fahey [48:30]

"Anytime you hear anyone say 'this behavior is a mortal sin' — that is spiritually abusive. I can't possibly know the conscience of another person." — Paul Fahey [19:30]

"Perhaps the most prophetic witness the Church can give right now is the genuine art of listening — not to convince, not to point out flaws, but to listen without agenda." — Father John [55:30]

Visit our website: religiontoreality.org

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Leave us a rating and review—it helps others discover the show!

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Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.  

What does it really mean to live the Gospel, not just inside church walls, but on the street corner, in the storefront, and in the lives of people the world has written off? In this powerful bonus episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Father John Gribowich are joined by Father James O'Shea, a Passionist priest and co-founder of Reconnect, a community organization in Brooklyn that has spent over a decade transforming lives through employment, mentorship, and belonging. Father Jim shares why crossing the street, literally and figuratively, is the first and most essential act of discipleship. This conversation will challenge you, inspire you, and might just upend your narrative.

About Father Jim O'Shea

Father Jim O'Shea, CP, is a member of the Passionist Congregation and currently serves as Provincial of the Passionists' Holy Cross Province, based in Queens, New York. Ordained in 1989, Father Jim spent approximately 25 years in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, where he earned a Master's in Social Work from Fordham University and became deeply involved in community organizing, affordable housing advocacy, and youth ministry. In 2010, he co-founded Reconnect, a social enterprise and mentorship program for young men in distressed communities. Reconnect is now based at Thomas Berry Place in Queens.

"If you don't want to leave the block, then we transform the block." — Father Jim O'Shea

"Moralizing with people is easy. But the legitimate question back to me is: what's your value add in my life?" — Father Jim O'Shea

"The church is the only institution I see that really has the capacity to continually witness: you are worth us doing this because we know who you are." — Father Jim O'Shea

"It's very hard to hate someone that you've really deeply listened to." — Father Jim O'Shea

"I'm not going to pontificate about it until I hear people's stories." — Father Jim O'Shea

"If you really believe that Jesus is alive in each and every single person, every single person is going to be an opportunity to hear God speak." — Father John Gribowich

Visit our website: religiontoreality.org

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Leave us a rating and review—it helps others discover the show!

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Learn more about our work: Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality

In this bonus episode of Religion to Reality, Renée Roden, a freelance religion journalist and Catholic Worker community member, has an in-depth conversation about living faith in action. Renee shares her journey from theater student at Notre Dame to running a Catholic Worker house in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, while offering a thoughtful exploration of how Catholics can bridge the gap between sacramental life and works of mercy. This conversation challenges listeners to reconsider what it means to truly live out their faith beyond Sunday Mass.

[00:03:00] The Catholic Worker Movement Explained Renee provides an accessible introduction to the Catholic Worker movement, founded in the 1930s by Dorothy Day and Peter Maurin. She explains how Dorothy Day prayed for a way to unite her writing skills, love for the poor, and newfound Catholic faith—and the next day met Peter Maurin, who introduced her to Catholic social teaching. Within months, they launched The Catholic Worker newspaper (cleverly named to counter the communist Daily Worker), and the movement exploded from 2,500 copies to six-figure readership within three years. The movement centers on Houses of Hospitality, voluntary poverty, and practicing the corporal works of mercy.

[00:11:00] Navigating Political Division The conversation tackles how Catholics can remain faithful during politically charged times without getting distracted by national politics at the expense of local, concrete action. Renee explains Dorothy Day's anarchism: she marched for women's suffrage and was imprisoned for it, yet never cast a vote herself. Day believed the state always serves its own interests and those of corporations or elites. Rather than focusing on distant political figures we don't even know personally, the Catholic Worker approach asks: "How do I care for my neighbor right now?" This localized focus prevents us from treating national political disagreements as distractions from the immediate, joyful work we can do in our own communities.

[00:15:00] Personalism as a Third Way Drawing on philosopher Emmanuel Mounier's concept of personalism, Renee articulates how the Catholic Worker offers a political vision centered on human dignity and freedom—distinct from both individualistic capitalism and collectivist ideologies. She explains that personalism asks fundamental questions: "What causes a human person to flourish? Are our structures supporting a person's ability to seek the good?" This approach shifts the focus from abstract national policy debates to concrete encounters with neighbors at the local level, bringing politics back to its first principles.

[00:20:00] Voluntary Poverty and True Freedom Renee wrestles honestly with the challenging concept of voluntary poverty, sharing how her partner James once told her "voluntary poverty promotes community and is freeing"—which initially baffled her. She explains how it's not about deprivation but about answering the question: "Who do I depend on?" Rather than depending on personal wealth and self-sufficiency, voluntary poverty means bringing your needs to God and depending on community. It creates genuine relationships based on material need, not just emotional connection, making community more meaningful and human.

[00:27:00] The Eucharist and Works of Mercy Connection Father John and Renee explore the deep connection between sacramental life and active service, addressing why the discipleship study shows Catholics excelling at liturgical participation but struggling with consistent works of mercy. Renee discusses the liturgical movement's influence on Dorothy Day, particularly the understanding that the Eucharist contains a call to "go be Eucharist in the world." As Pope Francis teaches in The Joy of the Gospel, churches shouldn't serve material needs while neglecting spiritual needs—and vice versa. The goal is integration: there should be no division between "helpers" and "the helped." Father John adds that the Eucharist trains us to see beyond appearances—recognizing Christ both in consecrated bread and in the person on the street.

[00:36:00] Community Living: Ideals and Reality With refreshing honesty, Renee addresses the challenges of intentional community living, acknowledging that many Catholic Worker houses have struggled or failed. She contrasts Catholic Workers with Benedictine monks who have "a 1,300-year-old rule and two years of novitiate training"—clear structures and guardrails. Many Catholic Worker communities lack sufficient "clarification of thought" about what it means to be a Catholic Worker and what their goals are. Renee notes that the movement is thriving among families who practice hospitality in their homes, providing natural stability through marital commitment and intimacy. Her advice: start with friendship first, read Catholic Worker literature together with like-minded people, and focus on your neighborhood community rather than just who shares your household.

[00:43:00] Finding Your Catholic Worker Community Renee addresses young Catholics who discover Dorothy Day, get excited, but then feel disillusioned when they visit Catholic Worker houses that don't reflect the sacramental, orthodox Catholicism they value. She encourages them to seek out the many Catholic Worker communities that do have "a beautiful liturgical life" and are "on fire" with energy and commitment. The Catholic Worker website makes these communities easy to find. She also explains that Catholic Worker houses practice "radical welcome," which draws many wounded people who've never felt belonging elsewhere—whether rejected by church or society. This can create challenges, but also opportunities for dialogue and parish partnerships that bring new life to communities.

ABOUT RENEE RODEN

Renee Roden is a freelance religion journalist who writes for America Magazine and US Catholic. She had a book about Christian unity in Jerusalem published by Liturgical Press last June. Renee currently lives at a Catholic Worker house in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, with her partner James, where they practice hospitality and community living.

"If we believe that we are part of the mystical body of Christ, well then, all of our institutions ought to reflect that fact that we have this great dignity as Christ's body."

"Politics essentially is how I treat my neighbor and how me and my neighbors work together."

"Voluntary poverty is freeing... It shifts who you depend on—do I depend on myself and my capabilities, or do I depend on God?"

"The point of the works of mercy is we're all supposed to be doing it for each other. We all come into this world needing to be fed."

"How powerful would our witness be to the world if Catholics lived that way? Where it's like, they look at that person and they see God, they see Christ."

"Community life is hard... but you have a 1,300-year-old rule. Catholic Workers don't have enough clarification of what it means to even be a Catholic Worker."

Visit our website: religiontoreality.org

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Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.

What does it truly mean to live out your Catholic faith in everyday life? In this compelling conversation, Peter Andrastek, Senior Consultant at The Evangelical Catholic, challenges the common misconception that holiness means becoming more like a priest, nun, or monk. Instead, he reveals how ordinary Catholics are called to extraordinary holiness right where they are—in their workplaces, families, and communities.

Discover why most parishes aren't equipped to form laypeople for their unique vocation, how the distinction between "ministry" and "apostolate" changes everything, and what practical steps you can take today to become salt, light, and leaven in your corner of the world. This bonus episode offers a refreshing vision of Catholic life that goes far beyond Sunday Mass attendance.

Understanding Ministry vs. Apostolate (02:40)

What Sanctifying the World Actually Looks Like (09:00)

The Skills vs. Holiness Debate (16:00)

The Seminary Challenge (20:00)

Pastoral Principles That Work (24:00)

A Practical Starting Point (28:30)

The Real Models of Holiness (33:00)

The Airline Pilot's Apostolate (43:00)

Something's Got to Give (37:00)

Peter Andrastek is the Senior Consultant at the Evangelical Catholic, a private nonprofit based in Madison, Wisconsin, that forms and equips Catholics to live out the Great Commission. Since joining EC, Peter has specialized in experimental initiatives, including seminary formation, workshops for priests, and developing curriculum for lay apostolate. He's been married for 20 years and has eight children ranging from a college sophomore to a four-year-old.

Connect with the Evangelical Catholic and learn more about their formation programs at

https://evangelicalcatholic.org

On the Lay Vocation:

"The life of an ordinary Christian is materially just the life of an ordinary person, but transformed from the inside by divine love... somehow mysteriously, without anything being different, somehow mysteriously everything is different." (09:30)

On Evangelization:

"If we reduce evangelization to something you can just train someone for, just a set of skills or a technique for saying something, we reduce evangelization to the manipulation of human techniques." (16:45)

On Starting Small:

"If you're distracted by all the things and all the people who are in your circle of concern, but not in your circle of influence, you are not going to be effective. Instead, you have to focus on a few, just like Jesus on a mustard seed." (25:30)

On Holiness and Apostolate:

"At the end of the day, holiness and apostolate are the same reality. You know, we distinguish them conceptually, but at the end of the day... when I am trying to be more cheerful at home as an act of love for my wife and kids, am I growing in holiness or am I being more apostolic with them? Why would there be a difference?" (47:00)

Fr. John's Perspective:

"My heroes are not priests, nuns, and monks. My models of holiness actually are the people who are raising the eight kids and who are juggling so many different responsibilities and living tremendous lives of sacrifice." (33:15)

Learn more about our work: Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality

What if the struggle in your spiritual life isn't a sign of failure, but proof that your relationship with God matters deeply? In this intimate conversation, spiritual director Mary Glowaski reveals how spiritual direction creates sacred space for encountering God's love in unexpected ways, especially in our deepest struggles and shame.

Mary shares her unexpected call to spiritual direction, the profound difference between counseling and spiritual companionship, and why being harsh with ourselves blocks us from experiencing God's unconditional love. If you've ever wondered what spiritual direction actually is, how to find a director, or whether it's right for you, this episode offers compassionate wisdom from someone who has walked with countless souls through their most sacred stories.

Discover why spiritual direction isn't about getting answers; it's about learning to see yourself and others through God's eyes of infinite compassion.

[00:00] Introduction and welcome

[00:36] Mary's background: From social work to spiritual direction

[02:00] What is spiritual direction?

[05:00] The focus on relationship with God, not human guidance

[06:00] Common misconceptions about spiritual direction

[08:00] Suspending what we think we know

[09:00] The gentle stance of spiritual direction

[10:43] The struggle with self-love and feeling lovable

[12:00] Spiritual direction vs. counseling vs. mentoring

[14:00] How spiritual direction changes the director

[16:00] The unique interior access of spiritual direction

[18:00] Humility as foundational for spiritual directors

[20:00] Stories of growth and transformation

[24:00] What a typical session looks like

[27:00] Meeting with other spiritual directors

[29:00] How to find a spiritual director

[31:45] Does a spiritual director need to be clergy?

[33:45] What Mary wishes people knew

[35:00] Practices that support spiritual direction

[36:45] The connective tissue: Awareness of mystery

[38:00] Being present vs. letting ego take over

[40:00] Christ's easy yoke vs. spiritual struggle

[42:00] Universal human struggles

[44:00] True empathy: "I could be there"

[45:00] Self-compassion and taking responsibility

[47:00] Looking for witnesses

Mary Glowaski is a spiritual director, pastoral counselor, and former social worker who spent 20 years working in victim assistance, pastoral care, mediation, and crisis intervention for the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend. After receiving her master's in pastoral theology and completing three years of Ignatian formation, Mary has dedicated her life to creating sacred space where people can encounter God's love and gentleness. A mother of two sons, mother-in-law to two daughters-in-law, and grandmother to three, Mary brings deep wisdom, humility, and compassion to her ministry of spiritual companionship.

"Spiritual direction is really about looking at the whole... These moments in someone's lives, even the things that we struggle with, there's sacredness there."

"Too often, I find people that it's not that they don't feel loved, they don't see themselves as lovable."

"Before someone comes to me, I pray, get me out of the way. Really, who cares what I think? It doesn't matter."

"We spend so much time anthropomorphizing God, making God into us instead of making me an image, a reflection of God's image."

"When a relationship with God is a struggle, I say thank you, because that says to me that it's of value."

"Given the right circumstances, I'm certainly capable of doing the same thing. And so that just really relieves me of like, I don't need to judge it because I could be there."

"We can take a deep breath and begin again."

Visit our website: religiontoreality.org

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Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.

In this bonus episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Father John Gribowich sit down with Friar Rick Riccioli, a Franciscan Friar Conventual and parish pastor in Brooklyn, for a wide-ranging and deeply honest conversation about what evangelization looks like in the real world today.

With over four decades of religious life and pastoral ministry across Canada and the United States, Friar Rick reflects on the tension between radical welcome and Gospel truth, the difference between accompanying people and trying to control their faith journey, and how parishes can become places of genuine belonging without losing their Catholic identity.

From Alpha and Divine Renovation to funerals, young adults, parish leadership, and the quiet heartbreak of parents whose children have left the Church, this episode offers practical wisdom, lived experience, and Franciscan humility for anyone who cares about the future of parish life.

[00:00] Introduction & Friar Rick's Background

[03:00] Francis Corps: Faith Formation Through Service

[06:00] Bridging the Gap: Social Justice vs. Church Connection

[11:00] Creative Outreach: The 11:11 Service

[13:00] The Art of Accompaniment

[20:00] Copyright & Church Teaching: Holding Truth with Humility

[22:00] Leading Parishes Through Cultural Change

[31:00] The Power of Funerals in Evangelization

[42:00] Reimagining Church Buildings & Sacred Space

[46:00] The Wedding Dilemma: Rules vs. Relationship

[55:00] The Young Adult Paradox

[01:00:00] What Is Community, Really?

[01:08:00] The Uncomfortable Path to Vocation

[01:11:00] Final Thoughts

Friar Rick Riccioli is a Franciscan Friar Conventual and parish pastor in Brooklyn with over four decades of religious life and pastoral ministry across Canada and the United States.

“Everyone is welcome—but not everyone’s next step is the same.”

“Evangelization happens at the speed of relationship.”

“You can’t drag people into holiness. You have to walk with them.”

“The Church’s greatest moments of evangelization often happen at funerals.”

Learn more about our work: Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.

What does authentic prayer look like in the digital age? Monica Martinez, Parish Lead at Hallow, shares her powerful journey from a teenager who stopped going to Mass to becoming a passionate advocate for healing through faith. In this deeply personal conversation, Monica discusses how prayer evolved from a childhood habit into a transformative relationship, why apps like Hallow are helping people discover faith safely, and how the modern Church can create genuine spaces for encounter. Whether you're exploring prayer for the first time or seeking to deepen your spiritual life, this episode offers practical wisdom on listening, silence, and meeting God in the everyday moments.

Monica's Journey to Healing

Prayer Apps and Digital Spirituality

The Evolution of Prayer

Listening in Prayer

Prayer Styles and Traditions

Modern Evangelization

Monica Martinez serves as Parish Lead at Hallow, the #1 Catholic prayer app, where she partners with parishes across the country to deepen prayer lives. Previously, she worked as Associate Director for Alpha in the Catholic context and served in diocesan ministry. Monica's work is driven by her personal experience of healing through faith, particularly her journey through family struggles with divorce and alcoholism. She travels nationally leading missions focused on prayer, evangelization, and creating spaces for authentic conversation about faith.

On Prayer and Relationship:

"Prayer is not so much something I'm doing, it's something I'm allowing to be done to me. When I'm tired, it's not that I'm too tired to pray—I need you, Lord, to help me rest." — Monica Martinez (23:00)

On Digital Tools:

"You don't need an app to pray, but you also don't need a trainer to get fit. But it really does help to learn the right form and not hurt yourself." —Monica Martinez (7:00)

On Healing:

"When you encounter that relationship, when you encounter healing, there's nothing left for you to do but help other people encounter the same." —Monica Martinez (2:00)

On Silence:

"Silence isn't about trying to get absolute quiet. It's about being attentive to the sounds you're missing—in your heart, mind, and spirit." —Father John Gribowich (29:00)

On the Eucharist:

"It's one thing to read about an amazing friend. It's another thing to encounter them—see how funny they are, how wonderful. That's what people long for with the Eucharist." —Monica Martinez (45:00)

Resources Mentioned

Prayer & Spirituality:

Scripture Referenced:

Spiritual Teachers Mentioned:

Research & Studies:

Learn more about our work: Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.

In this bonus episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Father John Gribowich sit down with Catholic educator and mindfulness teacher, Kathy Lorentz, to explore how prayer is far more than just words. It's about cultivating awareness of God's presence throughout every moment of our lives.

Kathy shares her journey from playing the Blessed Mother in a touring play at age 16 to becoming a theology teacher who works with students from preschool through adulthood. Her approach to prayer challenges traditional notions, revealing how attention, gratitude, and presence can transform mundane moments into sacred encounters.

Listen now to discover how you can develop a deeper prayer life without adding more to your to-do list.

The Nature of Prayer and Attention (03:00-09:00)

Navigating the Digital Age Mindfully (09:00-12:00)

Prayer Practices for Everyday Life (12:00-19:00)

The Importance of Intentional Prayer Time (20:00-23:00)

Praying for Others (23:00-26:00)

Misconceptions About Prayer (26:00-29:00)

Cultivating Awe and Wonder (29:00-34:00)

The Power of the Rosary (35:00-37:00)

Generational Changes and COVID's Impact (37:00-41:00)

The Practice of Listening (41:00-42:00)

Kathy Lorentz is a Catholic educator with extensive experience teaching from preschool through adult education. She currently teaches theology at a Catholic high school, where she also serves as a counselor specializing in mindfulness and contemplative practices.

Kathy's faith journey began at age 16 when she was invited to play the Blessed Mother in a touring production across California and Nevada, an experience that deeply shaped her devotion to Mary. Kathy also has a background in marriage and family counseling, compassion work, and inter-religious dialogue.

As a mother of five adult sons, Kathy teaches a class called "Mindfulness in the Contemplative Tradition" and has taught "Prayer and Spirituality" to thousands of high school students over 15 years. She works with Sunday to Sunday and is passionate about helping people discover prayer as an integrated way of being rather than just an activity.

"Let us remember that we are in the holy presence of God—for me, that is everything. It's not as if words need to be said, it's more a sense of being, of being aware of the presence that we exist in." — Kathy Lorentz

"Attention taken to its highest degree is the same thing as prayer." — Simone Weil (quoted by Kathy)

"Attention is a muscle, and the more we practice—with prayer, beginning with taking a deep breath and just taking time to focus on the fact that you are breathing—is a way of practicing to increase your muscle of attention." — Kathy Lorentz

"I believe that what we began with—remembering that we are in the holy presence of God—the awareness of the presence of God will help us know that we are not alone." — Kathy Lorentz

"One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery each day. Never lose a holy curiosity. Don't stop to marvel." — Albert Einstein

"Even if all you said was thank you, that would be prayer enough." — Meister Eckhart

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Learn more about our work: Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, dedicated to helping people bridge the gap between religious practice and lived spiritual reality.