Religion To Reality

In this episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Father John Gribowich explore the critical topic of faith formation, examining the barriers that prevent Catholics from receiving ongoing spiritual development and highlighting practices that have proven successful. Through conversations with three experienced formation leaders, they uncover why trust and personal relationships are foundational to authentic spiritual growth.

Deputy Director, Catechetical Institute at Franciscan University

Pastoral Associate, St. Vincent de Paul Parish

Parish Ministry Leader

"Ministry is defined by degree of intimacy and nothing else." - Dr. Bill Keimig

"The end of evangelization is for you to go out and do it - to radically love people, not have the next thing that you get something out of." - Cindy Black

"Formation aims at the soul for yearning, while education aims at the mind for learning." - Dr. Bill Keimig

"The opposite of faith is not doubt, but the opposite of faith is certainty." - Father John (quoting Anne Lamott)

Trust is Foundational: Authentic formation requires proving you're trustworthy and demonstrating trust in God through daily interactions.

Relationship Before Program: Personal conversion happens through intimate relationships, not programmatic approaches that prioritize calendar schedules over individual needs.

Belong → Believe → Behave: The most effective formation welcomes people into community first, allowing belief and behavior to follow naturally.

Formation vs. Education: Formation targets the soul and develops yearning for God, while education primarily addresses intellectual understanding.

Avoiding Consumer Mentality: True discipleship involves giving what you've received rather than constantly seeking the next spiritual experience or resource.

Long-term Commitment: Effective formation programs often take years to develop culture and see significant results.

Created by: Dave Plisky
Produced and Edited by: Connor Donnelly
An Initiative of: DeSales Media

Religion to Reality explores the intersection of Catholic faith and modern life, helping listeners move from theoretical belief to lived discipleship. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts and visit our website for additional resources and community connection opportunities.

What if prayer isn't just something you do at scheduled times, but the very attention you give to everything around you? In this transformative episode, we explore how "attention taken to its highest degree is the same thing as prayer" and discover why everyone—from busy parents to spiritual seekers—is called to be a mystic in their unique circumstances.

Spiritual Director & Educator, Sunday to Sunday Ministry

Parish Lead at Hallow Prayer App

Pastor, St. Thomas Aquinas Parish, Fairfield, CT

Father John's insight: You know your spiritual foundation is strong when you become less judgmental of how others pray, not more zealous about your particular method (29:30)

Kathy Lorentz serves as a spiritual director and educator, working with the Sunday to Sunday ministry alongside Father John. A mother of five adult sons, she teaches mindfulness in the contemplative tradition and draws on decades of experience in marriage and family counseling.

Monica Martinez leads parish engagement for Hallow, the Catholic prayer app with millions of downloads. She works directly with diverse faith communities and has unique insights into how technology intersects with spiritual practice across denominational lines.

Father David Roman pastors St. Thomas Aquinas Parish in Fairfield, Connecticut, and specializes in mysticism and the universal call to holiness. His reverent celebration of the Eucharist originally drew host Dave Plisky into deeper friendship and faith exploration.

"Pure unmixed attention is the highest form of prayer." - Simone Weil (via Father John, 1:45)

"Everything you're engaging with is far more than what it appears to be... there's a great mystery that lies behind everything." - Fr. John Gribowich (18:30)

"Mystery is not something you can't figure out... it's the reality that you can never exhaust knowing something." - Fr. John Gribowich (20:30)

"You don't need an app to pray, but you also don't need a trainer to get fit. But gosh, it really does help." - Monica Martinez (23:50)

Ministries & Organizations:

Books Mentioned:

Apps & Tools:

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Join the Community: Ready for deeper formation? Join the Called Learning Community's free online gatherings at calledcommunity.com

For more resources, visit religiontoreality.org for episode transcripts, additional materials, and ways to continue the conversation.

Join Dave and Father John as they explore how we actually grow in faith through both formal learning and life experience. They'll explore the distinction between catechesis and evangelization, and why belonging must precede believing.

Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, created by Dave Plisky and produced by Conor Donnelly. This episode features the wisdom of Kathy Lorentz, Monica Martinez, and Father David Roman.

What if your "spiritual life" is actually holding you back from true faith? In this inaugural episode, we challenge the idea that faith should be separated from daily life. Through powerful conversations with pastoral associate Cindy Black and journalist Andrea Sarubbi, discover how encounters at bars can be more transformative than Sunday services, and why the Martha vs. Mary debate misses the point entirely. Learn practical ways to integrate contemplation and action into one unified approach to living.

Bottom Line: Stop treating faith like a separate compartment of your life. Instead, learn to encounter God in every person and situation, from church pews to neighborhood bars.

The Problem with Compartmentalization (03:00)

Sacred Encounters in Unexpected Places (12:00)

The Eucharistic Worldview (15:00)

Beyond Martha vs. Mary (26:00)

The Freedom to Choose Well (27:00)

Cindy Black - Pastoral Associate at St. Vincent DePaul Parish in the Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend, Indiana. Former Catholic radio professional with extensive experience in youth ministry and helping newcomers approach the Catholic Church. Known for her authentic approach to relationship-building across diverse communities.

Andrea Sarubbi - Freelance journalist, former member of Italian Parliament, and contributor to the Pope Video Project spreading awareness of papal prayer intentions. Draws extensively from Ignatian spirituality in his approach to integrated living.

"Attention taken to its highest degree is the same thing as prayer." —Simone Weil

"The truth isn't a set of moral ideals. The truth is a person whose identity is love." —Cindy Black

"The difference between a church and let's say a bar is razor thin... whatever someone is trying to seek in a church, which is some form of acceptance in community, I can guarantee you that's what they're looking for in a bar too." —Fr. John Gribowich

"God is either everything, Christ is either everything, or he is nothing." —Fr. John Gribowich

Episode 2: Prayer - From Personal Practice to Data and Trends
Discover what weekly Mass-attending Catholics really think about their prayer lives and learn practical approaches to deepening your relationship with God.

Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, created by Dave Plisky and produced and edited by Conor Donnelly. This 11-episode series emerges from groundbreaking research on Catholic Intentional Discipleship, featuring conversations with priests, lay ministers, industry experts, and podcasters exploring where data-driven insights meet lived faith experiences.

Have a story about living an integrated life? Email us at [[email protected]]

Listen to the trailer for the Religion to Reality podcast, where we help you live a more integrated life.