“We often feel like maybe it's a betrayal of our grief to feel joy or that there's no room in grief for joy, or that it means, if we're grieving the loss of somebody who died that we loved, maybe we're not loving or honoring their memory enough or whatever the stories are that we tell ourselves. But we need joy to hold the heavy and the sad.”

• Naila Francis

In this episode, Naila talks with Sarah Davis, producer, about her miniseries, joy as resilience, and the ways that resilience appeared in her conversations.

This episode is part of the Breathing Wind miniseries titled Joy as Resilience, hosted by Naila Francis. The Joy as Resilience miniseries explores why embracing joy is not frivolous and how cultivating it can help us weather challenging times and open our lives to greater connection and purpose. 

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