Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

Most relationships, romantic or otherwise, tend to get stuck in predictable patterns of conflict. This episode is about how to resolve that conflict, and get things moving again. Dr. Rick and Forrest draw on Rick's decades of work with couples and families to talk about getting on the same team, healthy boundaries, making clear requests, differentiation, and the pursuer-distancer dynamic. The episode closes with Forrest and his fiancée, associate therapist Elizabeth Ferreira, on fixing versus feeling, and how they worked through it in their own relationship.

Key Topics:

00:00: Intro

01:30: What Rick wishes couples did differently

09:22: How to ask for what you want

16:36: Differentiation and family systems

28:33: When both people are right: content vs. tone

37:58: Why fighting can feel good

42:09: The pursuer-distancer dynamic

47:15: Resentment and requests about the future

55:33: Fixing vs. feeling with Elizabeth

1:06:59: Recap 

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Forrest is joined by Dr. Ashley Mason, a clinical psychologist and sleep researcher at UCSF, to discuss Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for insomnia (CBT-I). They talk about what separates insomnia from a few rough nights, why people with insomnia sleep (on average) only a little less than everyone else but experience the night completely differently, how insomnia develops and what keeps it going, and the five pillars of CBT-I. Dr. Mason walks through what treatment looks like in practice: fixing your wake time, restricting time in bed, working with 2am thoughts, a surprisingly early caffeine cutoff, and why meditation apps in bed are a hard no. 

About our guest: Dr. Ashley Mason is a clinical psychologist and associate professor of psychiatry at UC San Francisco, where she directs the Sleep, Eating, and Affect Lab and leads the insomnia treatment program at the UCSF Osher Center for Integrative Health. 

Key Topics:

00:00: Introduction

03:43: What insomnia is, and why it’s not just about hours of sleep

14:06: How insomnia develops

20:40: Sleep hygiene, the five pillars of CBT-I, and caffeine 

27:02: What treatment looks like: wake time and time in bed restriction

35:20: Sleep anxiety, tracking, and working with 2am thoughts

39:31: Sleep as a performance category, fear-mongering, and alcohol 

46:00: Meditation apps, relaxation, and brain dumping

50:34: How well CBT-I works, and using heat for sleep and depression

1:03:26: Recap

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.

Sponsors

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In this second episode on self-acceptance, Forrest and Dr. Rick focus on how to accept the parts of ourselves we don’t like. They explain why "just love yourself more" rarely works, walk through a four-step process, and talk about why acceptance gets easier when you can set boundaries with yourself. They also cover accepting the “bad” parts of who we are, how to work with the persona you've built to get through life, and self-authorship: taking a hand in who you're becoming. 

The Healing Link: In this new six-week live online course course, Rick will teach you how to use concepts from neuroscience to repair old wounds and change some of our most ingrained patterns. Learn more at RickHanson.com/Linking, and use promo code BeingWell25 to receive a 25% discount.

Key Topics:

0:00: Intro

3:31: If I accept myself, won't I get complacent?

10:01: Why "just love yourself more" doesn't work

14:36: Group 1: Authentic parts we don’t like

23:51: Boundaries with your own parts, and sticking up for them

32:07: Accepting the difficult stuff

41:01: Own it to regulate it: mean streaks and near enemies

45:49: Group 2: Working with the act

54:46: Self-authorship

1:01:02: Recap 

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.

Sponsors

Check your health the way I do with 160+ lab tests and access to scans through Function, all for only $365 a year. Learn more at https://functionhealth.com/BEINGWELL and use code BEINGWELL25 for a $25 credit.

Visit https://Rula.com/BEINGWELL to find affordable, high-quality therapy that’s actually covered by insurance. 

Listen to Turning Points: Navigating Mental Health wherever you get your podcasts. Follow the show so you never miss an episode. 

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Self-acceptance gets recommended constantly, but are we really supposed to accept the parts of ourselves we don't like? Won’t that stop us from changing? Dr. Rick and Forrest discuss what self-acceptance is, what it isn't, and why it’s the starting point for real change. They share the four stages of competence (and why conscious incompetence is where learning stalls), the two escape hatches people take from it, why harsh self-criticism is a form of avoidance, and Rick's three circles model of the act, the scared self, and the being. 

The Healing Link: In this new six-week live online course course, Rick will teach you how to use concepts from neuroscience to repair old wounds and change some of our most ingrained patterns. Learn more at RickHanson.com/Linking, and use promo code BeingWell25 to receive a 25% discount.

Key Topics

0:00: Intro

3:04: What self-acceptance is (and isn't)

6:43: The four stages of competence

10:59: Two bad exits: "idiot" self-acceptance and excessive self-criticism

13:24: Critical self-acceptance: judge the behavior, not the self

22:13: The three circles: the act, the scared self, and the ‘being’

26:44: The two things people struggle to accept

32:27: Should you accept the act?

43:20: Being with, working with, and the two levels of acceptance

51:35: Recap 

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Shame is one of the hardest emotions to work with, in part because it blocks what we need most when we’re feeling shame: self-compassion. Dr. Chris Germer, co-developer of the Mindful Self-Compassion program, joins Forrest to discuss how we can get around that trap. They talk about where shame comes from, how to recognize it when it’s hiding behind other emotions, and practical tools that help us experience less shame. 

About our Guest: Chris Germer is a clinical psychologist, lecturer at Harvard Medical School, co-developer of the Mindful Self-Compassion program with Dr. Kristin Neff, and author of the new book Self-Compassion for Shame.

Key Topics:

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.

Sponsors

If you’re ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try SimplePractice. Start with a 7-day free trial, then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to https://SimplePractice.com to claim the offer.

Try Gusto today at https://gusto.com/BEINGWELL, and get three months free when you run your first payroll. 

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Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is the world's most researched, recommended, and criticized form of therapy. Clinical psychologist Dr. Ellen Hendriksen joins Forrest to talk about what CBT is, its history, its strengths and weaknesses, and why it's gotten such a bad rap. They walk through the common criticisms: that it's spreadsheet therapy, that it's a form of self-gaslighting, and that it has an, er, "complex" relationship with insurance companies. They then apply the best of the CBT toolkit to Ellen's areas of expertise: self-criticism, perfectionism, procrastination, and social anxiety. 

About our Guest: Ellen is a clinical psychologist at Boston University's Center for Anxiety and Related Disorders and the author of How to Be Yourself and her newest book, ⁠How to Be Enough: Self-Acceptance for Self-Critics and Perfectionists⁠.

Key Topics:

00:00: Dr. Ellen Hendricksen and what differentiates CBT

7:54: Is CBT warm?

10:25: The first wave: behaviorism

19:57: The second wave: cognitive therapy and Aaron Beck

26:18: The third wave: mindfulness driven approaches

31:44: How the same problem would be handled by the three waves

34:53: Issues of fit

38:00: Critique 1: CBT is reductive

42:30: When CBT is a poor fit: trauma, intellectualizers

53:27: CBT for social anxiety and perfectionism

1:01:14: The two ingredients of perfectionism 

1:07:46: Perfectionism and procrastination 

1:25:07: Recap

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! ⁠If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.⁠

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Pain psychologist Dr. Rachel Zoffness joins Forrest and Dr. Rick to explore what pain is, why it can persist long after an injury has healed, and what actually helps. Rachel explains why the brain, rather than the body part that hurts, is what constructs pain, the difference between acute and chronic pain, and the distinction between hurt (what you feel) and harm (what's damaged). They get into the biopsychosocial model, the "pain dial" that stress, sleep, mood, and social connection can turn up or down, the disappointing response rates for most pain treatments, why pain is absolutely not “just in your head,” what sham surgery and open-label placebo studies reveal about how pain works, and why the research is so hard to interpret. 

This is not medical advice. Please do not start, change, or discontinue any medication based on this episode. All decisions should be made with your doctor.

About our Guest: Dr. Rachel Zoffness is a pain psychologist, assistant clinical professor at the UCSF School of Medicine, and the author of Tell Me Where It Hurts. 

Key Topics:

0:00 Introduction

1:42 Acute vs. chronic pain

3:41 What is pain?

9:20 The biopsychosocial model

11:11 Hurt vs. harm: the tale of two nails

19:10 The pain dial

23:10 Nociception vs. pain

26:46 Your pain recipe

29:46 The "all in your head" stigma

31:23 Central sensitization

35:53 Pushback from pain patients

40:42 Loneliness and pain

46:51 Pacing

50:48 Reducing distress vs. reducing pain

54:26 Does anything work?

1:00:07 What placebo actually is

1:03:19 Acupuncture, sham surgery, and open-label placebo

1:09:42 Why the research is such a mess

1:14:10 Hopelessness, and trying one more thing

1:17:46 Mindfulness and attention

1:23:02 Advice for friends and family

1:30:22 Recap

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.

Sponsors

Go to https://Zocdoc.com/BEINGWELL to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.

Check your health the way I do with 160+ lab tests and access to scans through Function, all for only $365 a year. Learn more at https://functionhealth.com/BEINGWELL and use code BEINGWELL25 for a $25 credit.

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Dr. Rick and Forrest talk about what separates people-pleasing from the fawn response, and why those differences affect what actually helps. They trace the surprising history behind both ideas, explain each’s relationship with trauma, and answer common questions along the way. They discuss why old friendships pull you back into old patterns, when appeasement is actually the right call, how to assert your needs when people expect you to concede, and how to figure out what you want after a lifetime of tuning into everyone else. 

Sign up for Dr. Rick's new Boundaries workshop, and use promo code BeingWell25 to receive a 25% discount. RickHanson.com/Boundaries

Key Topics:

0:00: Introduction

2:05: What’s the difference between people-pleasing and “just being nice?”

8:50: Common signs of people-pleasing

21:00: Where "people-pleasing" and “fawning” come from

27:00: Pete Walker, trauma, and how the two terms got merged

30:45: "Is the conflict causing my anxiety, or is my attachment style causing the conflict?"

39:10: Becoming more assertive 

47:30: How to change relationships built on the pleasing version of you

55:15: Emotional neglect, shame, and learning what you want

1:04:30: Recap

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.

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Forrest is joined by his parents, psychologist Dr. Rick Hanson and nutritionist Jan Hanson, to discuss "Depleted Mother Syndrome:” the exhaustion, brain fog, and low mood so many mothers experience. They talk about how Jan hit bottom in the years after Forrest and his sister were born, why the hardest stretch often comes two or more years after birth, the problem with dismissing these experiences as "just motherhood,” and how people can recover.

Key Topics:

00:00: Intro & welcome Jan!

2:39: What inspired the book

10:02: Dr. Rick’s perspective

13:30: Depleted Mother Syndrome

18:33: The accumulated impacts of motherhood 

25:44: Taking care of your health as a mom

36:40: Rick & Jan’s personal experience

50:08: Small actions that maintain and repair a relationship

1:04:19: What Jan would tell her younger self

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.

Sponsors

If you’re ready to simplify the business side of your practice, now is a great time to try SimplePractice. Start with a 7-day free trial, then get 50% off your first three months. Just go to SimplePractice.com to claim the offer.

Go to Zocdoc.com/BEINGWELL to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.

Get better sleep, backed by your own data. Go to OrionSleep.com/BEINGWELL for 15% off.

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We’ve all been told to “feel our feelings,” but what does that actually mean, and how do you do it? Forrest talks with trauma therapist Simone Saunders about how to go from knowing your patterns to being able to do something about them when things get intense. 

They discuss what your nervous system does when it decides you're not safe, why the tools you've collected go offline in exactly the moments you need them, and how a sense of agency changes that equation. Simone walks through her three-step process for noticing a sensation, working out what it's asking for, and doing something different with it. They also talk about the functional freeze, what to do when you “don’t feel anything,” and how to relate to shame and grief.

Key Topics:

00:00: Intro: overthinking, cognitive bypassing, and intellectualizing

4:42: What it means to “be in the body”

9:46: Bottom-up approaches and trauma

18:33: How to recognize disconnection and functional freeze

28:38: Moving out of a dictatorship and into a partnership with your body

34:51: How to actually feel your feelings

46:29: The difference between emotions and feelings

52:14: Meeting your needs

57:40: The limit of self-understanding, frameworks, and tools 

1:00:07: Moving into experiments, titration, and when you feel too much or not enough

1:17:28: Recap

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.

Sponsors

Level up your bedding with Quince. Go to https://Quince.com/BEINGWELL for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty-five -day returns.

Visit https://Upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. 

Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at https://RocketMoney.com/BEINGWELL.

MasterClass keeps adding new classes, so there’s never been a better time to get in. Get at least 15% off any annual membership at https://MasterClass.com/BEINGWELL

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