In this conversation, Dr. Ann Kelley and Occupational Therapist Kim Barthel explore the conscious evolution of the human spirit, the importance of self-compassion, and the integration of neuroception with therapeutic practices. Through Barthel’s book, ‘Conversations with a Rattlesnake,’ they dive into the significance of sensory integration and attachment in personal development. Using Porges’ “Safe and Sound Protocol”, they touch on how understanding one’s own nervous system and the cues of safety can lead to better emotional regulation and connection with not only oneself, but others. Follow along as they discuss the themes of trauma, healing and the science of connection.

05:32 Conversations with a rattlesnake: A journey through trauma

Kim Barthel is an occupational therapist, speaker, multi-disciplinary teacher, mentor and best-selling author who is active in supporting people in many contexts globally. She is passionate about understanding complex behavior, neurobiology, trauma-sensitive practice, sensory processing, attachment, and mental health. An advanced NDT (Neuro-Developmental Treatment) instructor, Kim has 40+ years of practice in helping people to be their best selves. She is a contributor to a number of textbooks on Pediatric Occupational Therapy, NDT, and Trauma, and in 2019 Kim was honored to receive the Award of Merit from the Canadian Association of Occupational Therapy. Kim’s overall mission is to support the conscious evolution of the human spirit.

Conversations with a Rattlesnake: Raw and Honest Reflections on Healing and Trauma – Book by Kim Barthel and Theo Fleury

Kim’s website – Resources and information

@kimbarthelotr – Kim’s Instagram

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Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

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Ann and Sue share a special conversation with Dr. Stephen Porges where they explore how modern attachment meets Polyvagal theory. From the evolution of attachment theory to understanding bodily states and how they influence our interactions, they dive into the intricate relationships between emotional expression, brain function, and therapeutic techniques. Together they explore the Safe and Sound Protocol and its role in promoting engagement as well as insights into the application of these techniques both professionally and personally.

06:53 The evolution of attachment theory

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Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

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Dr. Ann Kelley and Dr. Alexandra Solomon discuss her book ‘Taking Sexy Back,’ exploring the intersection of gender and sexuality, the impact of societal messages on women’s sexual experiences, and the importance of self-advocacy in relationships. They dive into the complexities of desire, body image, and the influence of patriarchy on both men and women – emphasizing the need for emotional awareness and connection in intimate relationships. Explore the evolving landscape of sexuality across generations and the impact of online dating and pornography on sexual experiences.

02:47 The intersection of gender and sexuality

Alexandra H. Solomon, PhD, is internationally recognized as one of today’s most trusted voices in the world of relationships, and her framework of Relational Self-Awareness has reached millions of people around the globe. A couple therapist, speaker, author, professor, podcast host, and media personality, Dr. Alexandra is passionate about translating cutting-edge research and clinical wisdom into practical tools people can use to bring awareness, curiosity, and authenticity to their relationships. She is a clinician educator and a frequent contributor to academic journals and research, and she translates her academic and therapeutic experience to the public through her popular and vibrant Instagram page, which has garnered over 200K followers. She is an adjunct professor in the School of Education and Social Policy at Northwestern University and is a licensed clinical psychologist in private practice. Her hit podcast, Reimagining Love, has reached listeners across the globe and features high-profile guests from the worlds of therapy, academia, and pop culture. She is the award-winning author of Taking Sexy Back: How to Own Your Sexuality and Create the Relationships You Want, Loving Bravely: 20 Lessons of Self-Discovery to Help You Get the Love You Want, and Love Every Day: 365 Relational Self-Awareness Practices to Help Your Relationship Heal, Grow, and Thrive.

Special Featured event: Ann and Sue are deep diving into clinical application of their work at the Psychotherapy Networker Symposium – March 20-23, 2025. It’s an incredible conference – they’d love to see you there!

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Dr. Ann Kelley and Shadeen Francis, LMFT unpack the intricate nature of desire, extending beyond just the sexual realm. They unpack the challenges in identifying true desires, the role of embodiment in self-awareness, and the key distinction between wanting and liking. Together they discuss intimacy, self-discovery and communication – with an emphasis on the need for negotiation and authentic connection in sexual experiences.

05:15 The challenge of identifying desire

Shadeen Francis is a licensed marriage and family psychotherapist and a board-certified sex therapist. Her expertise spans the domains of mental health, emotional intelligence, and the intersection of sexual wellness and social justice. A sought-after voice in her field, Shadeen has been featured on major networks including ABC, NBC, and CBS, and has been the subject matter expert for prominent brands such as Essence, Bumble, Tinder, and Teen Vogue. Shadeen’s work extends beyond the therapy room, influencing nationally implemented curricula, global media strategies, and public health policies. Known for her signature brand of warmth and humor, Shadeen’s work is inspired by her commitment to helping people live lives full of peace and pleasure.

shadeenfrancis.com – Shadeen’s website, resources, and other information

[email protected] – The best way to contact Shadeen

@shadeenfrancis – Shadeen’s Instagram handle

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Featured event: Ann and Sue are deep diving into clinical application of their work at the Psychotherapy Networker Symposium – March 20-23, 2025. It’s an incredible conference – they’d love to see you there!

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Dr. Emily Nagoski joins co-host Sue Marriott for a deep and insightful conversation about desire, pleasure, and the impact of societal norms on sexuality. Together they explore the evolving landscape of trans rights and healthcare, emphasizing patient-centered care and the urgent need for societal support. Through her journey as a sex educator, Nagoski advocates for deeper understanding and connection, while also sharing practical approaches to educating young people about gender and sexuality, managing stress, and finding meaning and purpose in life.

01:02 The intersection of sex, boundaries, and burnout

Click here to access her newsletter

EmilyNagoski.com – Website, resources and other important information 

@ENagoski – Instagram profile

Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle – Book by Dr. Emily Nagoski & Amelia Nagoski

Feminist Survival Project – Her current podcast with co-host Amelia Nagoski

Come As You Are – (Limited Series, 2022) – Podcast

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Featured event: Ann and Sue are deep diving into clinical application of their work at the Psychotherapy Networker Symposium – March 20-23, 2025. It’s an incredible conference – they’d love to see you there!

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Choose the right doctor for your needs – compare high quality, in-network options, and click to instantly book an appointment. Go to ZocDoc.com/TU

Dr. Krista Jordan & co-host Sue Marriott LCSW CGP dive into the messy, fascinating world of the 4th attachment category – disorganized attachment. Through intimate personal stories, they describe how it shows up in therapy, relationships, and everyday life. They explore the Adult Attachment Projective (AAP) and Adult Attachment Interview (AAI), unpacking what is sometimes called disorganized, unresolved, dysregulated, dissociated attachment that can ripple through generations.

Learn how dismissive strategies work so well they can stop us from growing, why feedback (and a little distress) is crucial for self-awareness, and how shame and anger are often two sides of the same coin.

06:05 Personal experiences with attachment styles and finding our she was “disorganized”

Dr. Krista Jordan, expert on Disorganized Attachment

Dr. Jordan received her PhD in Clinical Psychology from UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas in 1996. Her training included children and adults and focused on psychodynamic theory in treatment. She went on to establish a private practice in Austin, Texas in 1998 and has been treating clients through individual and couples therapy for the past 26 years. Dr. Jordan trained with Dr. Stan Tatkin, the originator of the Psychobiological Approach to Couples Therapy from 2008 until 2022 and is a

Featured event: Ann and Sue are deep diving into clinical application of their work at the Psychotherapy Networker Symposium – March 20-23, 2025. It’s an incredible conference – they’d love to see you there!

We’re kicking off February with a powerful conversation with the incredible Pam Benson Owens. Alongside co-host Sue Marriott, they explore what it means to live with purpose, navigate systemic challenges, and find liberation in everyday choices. Pam shares her wisdom on the role of self-care in activism, the courage it takes to engage in difficult conversations, and how fear shows up in DEI work. This episode dives deep into the intersection of personal and organizational growth, touching on themes of vulnerability, belonging, and the evolving landscape of diversity and identity. Sue and Pam also tackle honest conversations about race and privilege, the “messy middle” of personal transformation, and why pacing yourself is essential for long-term impact.

10:03 Engaging with difficult conversations

Pamela Benson Owens is the President and CEO of Edge of Your Seat Consulting, Inc and retired from the CEO of Six Square in September of 2024. For more years than she cares to admit to, Pam has owned Edge of Your Seat Consulting, a unique consulting firm that is dedicated to assisting for-profit, nonprofit, and faith-based entities. The major focus of Edge of Your Seat Consulting, Inc., is to provide methodologies that help manage perceptions and narratives about complex and challenging issues with courage and strategic passion. She is an

PamelaBensonOwens.com – Website, information & resources

The Lessons of Lists – book by Pam Benson Owens

Pamela Benson Owens: Aligning with Influence – ATX Woman article

Find her on Instagram – @pamelabensonowens @edgeofyourseatconsulting & @4theculturecoffee

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Just released!  “The Way of Play” – Book by Dr. Georgie Wisen-Vincent & Dr. Tina Payne Bryson, we recommend you get your copy today!

Co-host Sue Marriott, with special guests, Tina Payne Bryson and Georgie Wisen-Vincent, discuss the relational neuroscience behind the powerful role of play in child development and its therapeutic benefits. Play fosters emotional resilience, strengthens parent-child attachment, and supports positive neuroplasticity. They bring in positive neuroplasticity, emotional discomfort and tons of very practical techniques.

Learn how embracing play can nurture emotional growth and empower both children and parents in meaningful ways.

03:08 The role of play in child development

Georgie Wisen-Vincent, LMFT, RPT-S, ECMHS is a nationally recognized play therapy expert and co-author of the new book — THE WAY OF PLAY (Penguin Random House, January 2025). She is the Founder/Director of The Play Strong Institute, a center devoted to the study, research, and practice of play therapy through a neurodevelopment lens, along with Dr. Bryson, the Founder/Executive Director of The Center for Connection, a multidisciplinary clinical practice in Southern California. Georgie is also a child, adolescent, and family psychotherapist and maintains a private practice at The Center for Connection. A graduate professor at Santa Clara University and active researcher in childhood play, attachment science, and mental health, Georgie has been commissioned as a consultant, program designer, and lead trainer for several major organizations and frequently presents to educators, parents, and clinical professionals on play therapy, trauma resilience, and the power of play-driven learning. She completed advanced study in play therapy at the University of Roehampton, London. Georgie gained specialist endorsement in early childhood mental health after completing the UC Davis Napa Infant Mental Health Fellowship. She is currently in the final phase of her doctoral program, a PhD in Infant and Early Child Development, focused on neurodiversity and parent-child attachment relationships. Click here to view her more detailed bio.

You may already know Dr. Tina Payne Bryson from her two New York Times Best Sellers The Whole-Brain Child and No-Drama Discipline. They’re both co-authored with Dan Siegel and have been translated into over fifty languages. She and Siegel also wrote The Yes Brain and The Power of Showing Up, and Dr. Bryson is the author of The Bottom Line for Baby. Her new book, co-authored with Georgie Wisen-Vincent, is The Way of Play. Her books have sold over 3 million copies combined. Tina is also the Founder and Executive Director of The Center for Connection, a multidisciplinary mental health practice in Southern California. She keynotes conferences and conducts workshops for parents, educators, and clinicians all over the world. She also consults with schools, businesses, and other organizations, including the Nike Sport Research Lab (NSRL), where she is Project Director for Mental and Emotional Performance. Dr. Bryson earned her Ph.D. from the University of Southern California, where her research explored attachment science, childrearing theory, and the emerging field of interpersonal neurobiology.  The most important part of her bio, she says, is that she’s a mom to her three boys. You can learn more about her at TinaBryson.com. 

PlayStrongInstitute.com – Official website for information and resources

Center for Connection – Official website for information and resources

Pre-Order the bonus page for their book – Click here!

Tina’s Amazon shop page – Click here for books, resources and other tools

Click to access Tina Payne Bryson’s Social Channels – Facebook, Instagram, Youtube & Twitter 

Georgie’s Instagram handle – @georgiewisenvincent

TinaBryson.com – Website for information and resources

Click here to subscribe to Tina Payne Bryson’s newsletter

How to contact Tina – Email [email protected]

How to contact Georgie – Email [email protected]

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Ann and Sue are presenting a clinical deep dive at the Psychotherapy Networker Symposium – March 20-23, 2025. Join us!

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Compare high quality, in-network doctors, choose the right one for your needs, and click to instantly book an appointment. Go to ZocDoc.com/TU

The discussion evolves into an exploration of spirituality in the digital age, including thought-provoking perspectives on artificial intelligence’s role in shaping human consciousness and connection.

This nuanced conversation bridges practical psychological insights with broader questions about human connection in an evolving technological landscape.

05:54 Generational perspectives on estrangement

Matthias is a psychotherapist recognized for his expertise in making complex mental health concepts accessible, with a special focus on parent-child estrangement. He is the CEO of the Trauma Institute which provides clinical training for psychotherapists and education for the general public on healing from trauma. Matthias is widely recognized for his unique approach to making mental health knowledge and skills accessible to the wider public. His ability to translate complex topics into relatable everyday language has empowered millions to heal from their past, repair relationships, and take control of their mental well-being. Through platforms like Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and his top-ranking Spotify podcast, Matthias delivers psychoeducational content to a following of over 4 million people. His innovative blend of engaging content and relevant mental health advice has fostered a vibrant online community centered on healing, personal growth, and moving towards what’s meaningful despite hardship. Aside from his online presence, Matthias is an accomplished author and educator. He has self-published several short books and interactive mental health journals, offering a distinctive trauma-informed approach to topics like grief, motivation, burnout, and gratitude. In addition, he has built a diverse library of interactive general public workshops on themes such as anxiety, relational intimacy, and healing from trauma, further establishing his commitment to sharing knowledge and resources for both clinicians and the general public.

Estrangement.com – Sign up here for The Healing Estrangement

MatthiasJBarker.com – Matthias’ website, with resources and other information

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As we close out another year, Ann and Sue take time to reflect on 2024 while sharing some exciting opportunities for the year ahead. The Vitality Series is an exciting new endeavor, where they emphasize creating safe spaces for dialogue, navigating tough emotions, and bringing therapeutic concepts into everyday life. With an honest look at shame, vulnerability, and the challenges of personal growth, they explore how connection can empower both individuals and communities. Along the way, they celebrate the milestones of their podcast, emphasize the importance of self-reflection, and highlight the role of supportive networks in fostering meaningful change.

00:00 Exciting announcements for 2025

Brewing Vitality Series, Ann & Sue’s NEW Course – Click here to learn more and reserve your spot!!

Psychotherapy Networker Symposium – March 20-23, 2025

Rethinking Attachment – Using the Attachment Spectrum in Clinical Practice

Sign up here!

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Featured event: Ann and Sue are deep diving into clinical application of their work at the Psychotherapy Networker Symposium – March 20-23, 2025. It’s an incredible conference – they’d love to see you there!