Image: The Project Twins – Art from the Braver Angels, Seattle

Dr. Ann Kelley sits down with Dr. Bill Doherty to explore the idea of “Citizen Therapists” and how therapists — and all of us — can help bridge divides in a polarized world. Together, they dive into discernment counseling for couples on the brink of divorce, the groundbreaking work of Braver Angels in fostering dialogue across political differences, and the skills we all need for hard but healing conversations. This conversation highlights the power of curiosity, respectful boundaries, and understanding – whether in our closest relationships or across society.

08:14 Exploring political divides in relationships

Bill Doherty is a Professor Emeritus in the Department of Family Social Science at the University of Minnesota. As a therapist, he focuses on couples on the brink of divorce and on political stress in relationships. He has authored 14 books for professionals and the public. Following the 2016 U.S. Presidential election, he co-founded Braver Angels, a citizen initiative bringing conservatives and liberals together to counteract political polarization and restore the fraying social fabric in American society. Bill is the chief designer of the Braver Angels workshops and has conducted sessions all over the country, including for corporations, state legislatures, and the Problem Solvers Caucus in Congress. Braver Angels now has volunteers working in all 50 states. Among his awards is the Lifetime Achievement Award from the American Family Therapy Academy.

Braver Angels – Website and resources leading the nation’s largest cross-partisan, volunteer-led movement

“Becoming a Citizen Therapist: Integrating Community Problem-Solving Into Your Work as a Healer” – Purchase your copy by William J. Doherty and Tai J. Mendenhall

https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/tu153-how-good-boundaries-actually-bring-us-closer-replay-with-juliane-taylor-shore/

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

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Ann Kelley and Diana Hill dive into the concept of wise effort and its impact on how we manage our energy in both personal and professional life. They explore the difference between life force energy and anxiety, the role of emotional sensitivity, and why community resilience matters. Diana shares insights on how to wisely channel your “genius energy,” break free from stuck patterns, and cultivate compassionate connections that support growth and balance.

09:54 Distinguishing life force from anxiety

Diana Hill, Ph.D. is a modern psychologist, international trainer, and a leading expert on Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and compassion. Drawing from the most current psychological research and contemplative practices, Diana bridges science with real-life application to help organizations and individuals develop psychological flexibility so that they can grow fulfilling and impactful lives. She is the host of the Wise Effort podcast and author of four books including Wise Effort: How to Focus Your Genius Energy on What Matters Most, I Know I Should Exercise, But…: 44 Reasons We Don’t Move and How to Get Over Them, The Self-Compassion Daily Journal, and ACT Daily Journal. She has been featured on NPR, Wall Street Journal, Psychology Today, and numerous other media channels. She lives in Santa Barbara, California.

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Benjamin Fry, a psychotherapist and founder of Khiron Clinics, joins Sue Marriott to discuss his personal experience with trauma and how it influenced his therapeutic work. He talks about building his clinic and exploring innovative approaches like EMDR and somatic experiencing, which led him to help develop the PhysioCam—a technology that allows clients to see their nervous system responses in real time. As mental health treatment continues to evolve with new technologies, Benjamin and Sue explore how education and better access to care can support healing and offer hope to those who need it.

04:22 Benjamin’s personal journey and early life

Benjamin is the founder of Khiron Clinics, one of the world’s leading residential trauma-treatment centres, and Televagal, an innovative mental health technology platform. An accredited psychotherapist, couples therapist, speaker, author, and entrepreneur, he has written four books, including The Invisible Lion: How to Tame your Nervous System and Heal your Trauma. With a diverse career spanning psychology, media, and business, Benjamin read Physics and Philosophy at Oxford University and then did an MFA in Film Production at USC, directing a feature-length film distributed by HBO and Paramount. He later went on to set up various enterprises in the hospitality industry before completing an MA in Psychotherapy and Counselling at Regent’s College and an Executive MBA from Oxford University. His first book led to his role as the expert psychotherapist on the BBC series Spendaholics. Benjamin speaks at mental health conferences worldwide, raising awareness of the effectiveness of nervous system-based therapies for treating trauma. He also delivers workshops to help people optimize and heal their relationships through trauma-informe practices and education.

Khiron Clinics – Benjamin’s global trauma recovery center, information & resources

The Invisible Lion – Bejnamin’s recent book on taming your nervous system and healing trauma

Televagal – PhysioCam transforms your telehealth sessions into a powerful window into your client’s nervous system

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s – Next Q&A September 5th!

Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

In this half of the conversation, Rebecca Kase and the Sue dig deeper into the concept of interoception, emphasizing its significance in therapy and personal well-being. They discuss how our physiological states influence our narratives and the importance of breath in regulating these states. From the roles of implicit and explicit memory in shaping our experiences to how adaptive and maladaptive memories affect our mental health, they highlight therapeutic approaches to updating narratives and the journey of healing and resilience, providing practical tools for therapists and resources for further learning.

02:36 The role of breath in physiological state

https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/feel-it-to-heal-it-the-science-of-interoception-with-rebecca-kase-274/

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s – next Q&A September 5th!

Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

Dr. Ann Kelley and expert Judith Matz unpack the complex relationship between dieting, emotional eating, body image, and weight stigma. Together they challenge conventional views on weight and health, emphasizing that fitness matters more than the number on the scale, and explores why most diets fail both psychologically and physiologically. They also cover the historical roots of fatphobia, the dangers of weight bias in healthcare, and the rise of weight loss drugs like Ozempic. Judith highlights the importance of attuned eating, informed consent, and compassionate care, offering a weight-inclusive approach to healing our relationship with food and body.

Judith Matz, LCSW, ACSW, is a therapist, nationally recognized speaker, and consultant on the topics of diet culture, binge eating, emotional eating, body image, and weight stigma. She is co-author of the new Emotional Eating, Chronic Dieting, Binge Eating and Body Image Workbook, as well as The Diet Survivor’s

Judith Matz – Website, information and resources

Emotional Eating, Chronic Dieting, Bingeing and Body Image: What Every Clinician Needs to Know – Judith Matz’s full day PESI training

Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia – Book by Sabrina Strings recommend by Judith Matz

What We Don’t Talk About When We Talk About Fat – Book by Aubrey Gordon recommended by Judith Matz

Anti-Diet: Reclaim Your Time, Money, Well-Being, and Happiness Through Intuitive Eating – Book by Christy Harrison recommended by Judith Matz

https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/disordered-eating-attachment-intuition-cultural-influence-266/

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s – Next Q&A September 5th!

Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

In 2022, we had the privilege of having Loretta J. Ross on the podcast to discuss “Calling in the Call Out Culture”. With the publication of her new book, “Calling In: How to Start Making Change with Those You’d Rather Cancel” – we felt this message was just as relevant as ever. Together, Sue Marriott and Loretta J. Ross explore the themes of social justice, empathy, and the importance of dialogue in navigating political divides. Loretta shares insights from her book, discussing the need for compassion and under standing in activism. They delve into the complexities of human relationships, the balance between calling in and calling out, and the significance of individual experiences in shaping political views. The conversation emphasizes the power of community engagement and the role of personal growth in fostering a more just society.

Click here to get your copy!

Loretta J. Ross is an activist, professor, and public intellectual. In her five decades in the human rights movement, she’s deprogramed white supremacists, taught convicted rapists the principles of feminism, and, as National Co-Director, organized the second-largest march on Washington (in April 25, 2004, March for Women’s Lives in Washington D.C., surpassed in size only by the 2017 Women’s March). A cofounder of the National Center for Human Rights Education and the SisterSong Women of Color Reproductive Justice Collective, her many accolades and honors include a 2022 MacArthur Fellowship and a 2024 induction into the National Women’s Hall of Fame. Today, Ross is an associate professor at Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts, and is the founder of LoRossta Consulting, with which she runs “Calling In” training sessions online and for organizations around the country.

https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/call-out-culture-168/

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s – next Q&A September 5th!

Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

In this powerful conversation, one of the most influential voices on racial justice and family therapy, Dr. Kenneth Hardy talks with Dr. Ann Kelley about the VCR Method (Validate, Challenge, Request) for navigating difficult conversations without retreating into silence or conflict. Hardy reveals how White-bodied folks and People of Color/Culture (POC) can move beyond either/or thinking by recognizing their multiple selves – the parts that hold privilege and the parts that experience subjugation – no matter who you are. 

Key insights include Hardy’s concept of “invisible wounds” – the unnamed racial trauma that affects people of color daily – and why the expectation for Black people to “take the high road” actually perpetuates harm. Through a real example from a heated workshop exchange with a white student, Hardy demonstrates the VCR approach in action, showing how validation, strategic challenge, and clear requests can keep us connected through rupture rather than defaulting to our most activated, subjugated responses.

This episode offers practical tools for therapists and anyone seeking more authentic, healing-centered conversations about difference in general and particularly, race and privilege. Hardy’s framework challenges us to develop both a racial lens and a clear sense of our racial selves, moving from fragility toward the courage to stay in relationship even when conversations get difficult.

05:13 Invisible wounds and racial trauma

Dr. Kenneth V. Hardy is a Clinical and Organizational Consultant at the Eikenberg Institute for Relationships in Newark, DE, where he also serves as Director. He is also the Founder and President of the Eikenberg Academy for Social Justice. He provides Racially Focused Trauma Informed training, executive coaching, and consultation to a diverse network of individuals and organizations throughout the United States and abroad. He is a former Professor of Family Therapy at both Drexel University in Philadelphia, and Syracuse University in New York, and has also served as the Director of Children, Families, and Trauma at the Ackerman Institute for the Family in New York, NY.

Eikenberg Academy for Social Justice – President Kenneth V. Hardy, website and resources

“On Becoming a Racially Sensitive Therapist: Race and Clinical Practice” – Book by Dr. Kenneth V. Hardy 

“Racial Trauma Clinical Strategies and Techniques for Healing Invisible Wounds” – Book by Dr. Kenneth V. Hardy

“The Enduring, Invisible, and Ubiquitous Centrality of Whiteness” – Book by Dr. Kenneth V. Hardy

“Some subtleties of whiteness in the workplace: Steps for shifting the paradigm” – Journal by Dr. Kenneth V. Hardy

https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/navigating-racial-trauma-part-1-203/

https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/racial-trauma-challenges-traditional-therapy-part-2-sriw-series-ep-3-204-2/

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s – Next Q&A September 5th!

Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

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This book on Modern Attachment has an entire chapter dedicated to “When System’s Create Insecurity” to follow up on this topic.  Get your copy of Secure Relating here!!

Sue Marriott is joined by Rebecca Kase to explore how understanding the nervous system—especially the concept of interoception—can support healing from trauma. Rebecca shares her personal story as a survivor and highlights the importance of creating safety, tuning into the body’s internal signals, and approaching somatic work with compassion. Together, they unpack how interoception differs from general perception, why it matters in therapy, and how small, gradual steps can help rebuild connection with the body.

02:45 Rebecca’s journey and healing

Rebecca Kase, LCSW, RYT is a licensed clinical social worker, yoga teacher, author, and nationally recognized expert in trauma therapy. She’s the founder of The Trauma Therapist Institute, where she trains thousands of clinicians each year in EMDR, Polyvagal Theory, and integrative mind-body approaches to healing. Rebecca is the author of Polyvagal-Informed EMDR and self-help book The Polyvagal Solution, which helps readers understand and work with their nervous system to create lasting change. Known for her warmth, clarity, and deep clinical insight, Rebecca brings science to life in a way that’s accessible, empowering, and rooted in real-world healing. When she’s not writing, teaching, or speaking, you can find her nerding out on neuroscience, gardening, or daydreaming about her next horse property.

The Polyvagal Solution: Vagus Nerve-Calming Practices to Soothe Stress, Ease Emotional Overwhelm, and Build Resilience – Book by Rebecca Kase

Polyvagal-Informed EMDR: A Neuro-Informed Approach to Healing – Book by Rebecca Kase

The Applied Polyvagal Theory Flip Chart – A Psychoeducational tool to harness the power of the vagus nerve

Enjoying this episode? Check out similar topics!

https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/addiction-attachment-the-felt-sense-polyvagal-model-with-jan-winhall-193/

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s – Next Q&A September 5th!

Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

Ann’s FAVORITE!  Coffee alternative powered by mushrooms! Right now, you can get 20% off plus a FREE starter kit when you shop exclusively Piquelife.com/tu

Dr. Ann Kelley is joined by Dr. Jill Stoddard as they unpack the complexities of imposter syndrome—why it shows up, who it impacts most, and how to move through it. Drawing on her expertise in psychological flexibility and values-based living, Dr. Stoddard shares strategies to navigate self-doubt, marginalization, and internalized insecurity. Learn how to reframe discomfort, build a healthier relationship with vulnerability, and use these moments as powerful opportunities for connection and growth.

Photo by Orlando Magazine

Dr. Jill Stoddard is passionate about sharing her expertise in psychology to help people flourish in their work and health. She is an international and TEDx speaker, award-winning former professor, three-time book author, licensed psychologist, coach, and co-host of the Psychologists Off the Clock podcast which is ranked in the top .5% worldwide. Dr. Stoddard is an entrepreneur who founded Flexible Communications, LLC, in Massachusetts, and The Center for Stress and Anxiety Management in California. Her books have been translated into twelve languages and include: The Big Book of ACT Metaphors; Be Mighty; and Imposter No More. Her thoughts have also appeared in the Washington Post, New York Times, Woman’s World, Today.com, Psychology Today, Scary Mommy, Thrive Global, The Good Men Project, Mindful Return, The Boston Globe, and more. She regularly appears on podcasts and as an expert source for various media outlets. She lives in Newburyport, MA with her husband, two kids, and disobedient French Bulldog.

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Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s

Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

Sue Marriott continues practical exploration of liberation psychology and communty-centered care by learning from Zimbabwe-based psychiatrist, Dr. Dixon Chibanda.  Don’t miss the first episode about this research based program.  Dr. Chibanda shares his powerful story behind the Friendship Bench, a community-based mental health model that centers healing in the heart of local communities and his new book, launching this week!

They explores how grandmothers (not youth or grandfather’s so much – find out why) are often overlooked in traditional mental health systems. Tapping them they can play a vital role in offering care, connection, and wisdom.Dr. Chibanda discusses the barriers to accessing mental health services, the role of storytelling in the healing process, and the global expansion of their research-based program, the Friendship Bench.

Grounded in research and lived experience, this conversation invites a rethinking of care—away from over-medicalization and toward more accessible, human-centered approaches.

02:34 The role of community elders in mental health

Dixon Chibanda is a leader in the global conversation to democratize mental health care. He is a professor of psychiatry, published researcher, author, advocate, public speaker, and the found of Friendship Bench. He has been featured on the Financial Times, PBS NewsHour Brief But Spectacular episode, Positive News, and has written about his work for The Guardian, LA Times, Project Syndicate and has spoken to audiences at the World Economic Forum, Skoll World Forum, World Health Assembly, the Aspen Ideas Festival, and the TEDWomen conference. As a practising medical doctor, professor of psychiatry & global mental health at the University of Zimbabwe and The London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, Dixon has explored the intersection of indigenous knowledge and western models of care to develop sustainable interventions in global health. His TED talk on why he trains grandmothers to treat depression describes the journey of the Friendship Bench. Over 100 peer-reviewed scientific publications of the program are accessible online. He has been for over a decade a key player in bringing the various stakeholders from local health authorities, health professionals, national and international researchers, and donors together to form successful collaborations.

The Friendship Bench: How Fourteen Grandmothers Inspired a Mental Health Revolution – Get your copy here!

Dixon’s website – Website, resources & information

The Friendship Bench – Website, information & resources

Friendship Bench Youtube Channel – Videos and other content

https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/tu127-friendship-bench/

Learn how your nervous system, your mind, and your relationships work together in a fascinating dance, shaping who you are and how you connect with others.

Online, Self-Paced, Asynchronous Learning with Quarterly Live Q&A’s

Earn 6 Continuing Education Credits – Available at Checkout

As a listener of this podcast, use code BAS15 for a limited-time discount.

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Ann’s FAVORITE!  Coffee alternative powered by mushrooms! Right now, you can get 20% off plus a FREE starter kit when you shop exclusively Piquelife.com/tu

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