What happens when therapy stops being about techniques — and starts becoming about you?

In this deeply reflective episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen are joined by therapist and trainer Jessica Downs for an intimate conversation exploring the inner life of therapists, professional identity, and the personal work that inevitably emerges beneath clinical practice.

Together, they explore the hidden motivations that draw people into helping professions, the illusion of the “next training” as a solution to therapeutic stuckness, and the moment many therapists encounter when professional development turns into personal reckoning.

This episode moves beyond theory into experience, as Jessica guides a live experiential exercise inviting listeners to connect with younger parts of themselves — demonstrating how EMDR principles, ego state work, and imagination can foster integration and self-compassion.

Themes explored include:

• Why therapists often chase new modalities or trainings
• The relationship between burnout and unresolved inner dynamics
• Countertransference and the therapist’s personal history
• Ego states and parts work through an EMDR lens
• The role of suffering in human experience
• Individuation, identity, and professional evolution
• Healing as wholeness rather than symptom elimination

This conversation is slower, more inward, and intentionally reflective — an invitation to pause, notice, and reconnect with the parts of yourself that brought you into this work in the first place.

In This Episode, We Discuss

• The unconscious reasons therapists become therapists
• When “helping people” isn’t the whole story
• Capitalism, continuing education culture, and therapist insecurity
• Internal imagery and symbolic work in healing
• Parenting, therapy, and mirrors of the self
• Jessica’s “spotlighting” ego state exercise (follow along included)
• The La Loba myth and reclaiming lost parts of self

About Our Guest — Jessica Downs

Jessica Downs is a trauma therapist, EMDR clinician, and co-founder of Iris Training Collective. Her work integrates EMDR, ego state approaches, symbolism, and depth psychology to help therapists reconnect with authenticity and wholeness in both personal and professional development.

Resources & Links

• Iris Training Collective
• Live Well Counseling Center (Grand Junction, CO)
• Notice That Podcast
• Beyond Healing trainings and consultation opportunities

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What if resilience isn’t about “bouncing back,” but about the brain’s ongoing ability to adapt—moment by moment, across a lifetime?

In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen are joined by Laurel O’Neal Thornton, EMDR clinician, consultant, and educator, for a rich conversation on the neuroscience of resilience and what it actually looks like in EMDR therapy.

Drawing from neuroscience, EMDR, and years of clinical experience, Laurel reframes resilience as an innate human capacity—one that exists even in the presence of trauma, depression, neurodivergence, and chronic stress. Together, we explore how shame disrupts resilience, why meaning-making matters, and how EMDR can foster regulation, integration, and adaptability without chasing perfection or symptom elimination.

This episode is especially resonant for clinicians working with complex trauma, neurodivergent clients, chronic depression, or anyone feeling stuck in rigid models of “healing.”

✨ In This Episode, We Explore:

• Why resilience is adaptation, not toughness or “bouncing back”
• How EMDR naturally supports resilience through plasticity, regulation, and integration
• The role of shame as a major disruptor of innate resilience
• Why healing doesn’t mean never being triggered again
• How meaning, purpose, and relational connection show up in resilience research
• Working creatively within the EMDR protocol—especially Phase 2 and Phase 8
• Supporting neurodivergent and highly intelligent clients in EMDR
• Why spontaneity, play, and pattern-breaking matter in therapy
• What it really means to “trust the brain” in EMDR

🧩 Key Takeaways for Clinicians

• Resilience exists before healing—and therapy helps clients reconnect to it
• EMDR doesn’t fix broken brains; it helps glitching systems reintegrate
• Decreasing shame may be one of the most powerful therapeutic interventions
• Creativity and flexibility are not deviations from EMDR—they’re part of its design
• Healing is about faster recognition, quicker recovery, and greater self-understanding

👩‍🏫 About Our Guest

Laurel O’Neal Thornton is an EMDR clinician, consultant, educator, and practice owner who specializes in the neuroscience of trauma, resilience, and neurodivergence. She trains and consults clinicians internationally and is passionate about helping therapists integrate neuroscience in ways that are practical, humane, and deeply respectful of the client’s nervous system.

Learn more about Laurel’s work at Whole Brain Solutions

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In this episode of Notice That, we dive into one of the most avoided—and most essential—topics in mental health: sex, pleasure, and sexual health.

We’re joined by Cassie Krajewski, LCSW, AASECT-certified sex therapist, EMDRIA Approved Consultant, and co-founder of Iris Training Collective. Cassie brings a deeply integrative lens to sexuality—one that moves far beyond technique and into conceptualization, embodiment, and healing.

Together, we explore how sexual health is not a “specialty concern,” but a core dimension of human wellness—and how EMDR therapy offers a powerful, attuned framework for addressing sexual shame, desire, pleasure, and trauma.

In this conversation, we explore:

• Why sexual health is a birthright, not a performance metric
• How culture, religion, and shame disrupt embodiment and desire
• The role of pleasure as a healing mechanism, not a reward
• Why many therapists avoid sex—and how that avoidance shows up clinically
• Integrating sex therapy principles into EMDR case conceptualization
• Creative and embodied resourcing for sexual trauma and low desire
• Consent, curiosity, and reclaiming agency in sexuality
• How therapists can reflect on their own relationship to sex and pleasure

This episode is an invitation—to therapists and humans alike—to pause, notice, and gently question the stories we’ve inherited about sexuality… and to consider what healing might look like if pleasure were allowed back into the room.

Free Resources on Cassie's website at inneratlastherapy.com

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EMDR for Couples: Healing Together Through Simultaneous Processing

A Conversation with Arilda Surridge, LMFT

What happens when EMDR moves beyond the individual—and into the relationship itself?

In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen sit down with Arilda Surridge, LMFT, author and EMDR clinician, to explore how EMDR can be ethically, safely, and powerfully integrated into couples therapy. Arilda shares a clear, grounded framework for working with two nervous systems in the room—without deviating from EMDR fidelity—and offers concrete clinical examples that bring this work to life.

This conversation goes far beyond theory. Together, we walk through:

• When couples EMDR is and is not appropriate
• How to assess whether a trauma is individual, shared, or relational
• What simultaneous EMDR reprocessing actually looks like in practice
• How compassion, accountability, and repair emerge through bilateral stimulation
• Why tools alone often aren’t enough for deeply dysregulated couples

Arilda also shares clinical wisdom from her work with couples navigating car accidents, attachment injuries, guilt and shame, trust ruptures, and relational enactments—highlighting how EMDR can help partners move from reactivity to empathy.

This episode is especially valuable for:

• EMDR therapists working with couples
• Clinicians navigating attachment trauma and relational enactments
• Therapists curious about maintaining EMDR fidelity in non-traditional applications
• Anyone interested in how trauma lives between people—not just within them

About the Guest

Arilda Surridge, LMFT is a licensed marriage and family therapist, EMDR clinician, and the owner of Wellness Counseling Inc. She specializes in integrating EMDR into couples therapy while maintaining fidelity to the eight-phase protocol. Arilda is the author of a practical, clinician-focused book on EMDR for couples and offers professional trainings on this emerging area of practice.

Find out more about her practice here: https://wellnesscounselinginc.com/about/

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In this special “take your learner hat off” episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen sit down with Jennifer Ann Counseling—EMDR therapist and comedy content creator—for a playful, honest conversation about being a therapist and a human.

This episode isn’t about teaching a specific technique. It’s about humor, authenticity, and why laughter belongs alongside depth in trauma work. We talk about how Jennifer’s platform grew, what it’s like navigating social media as a therapist, handling negative comments, and why being real often connects more than being polished.

We also explore EMDR in everyday practice—ritual, intention, parts work, and the familiar client experience of “I don’t know why this works… but it does.”

Connect with Jennifer Ann Counseling

Instagram / TikTok: @JenniferAnnCounseling

Free resources available via her bio

If this episode resonates, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a colleague who needs a reminder that therapy can be human, playful, and deeply meaningful.

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In this episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Jen and Bridger sit down with Dr. Arielle Schwartz—somatic psychologist, EMDR therapist, and author of EMDR Therapy and Somatic Psychology—to explore what really happens when EMDR and body-based work are woven together in the therapy room.

Together, they dive into:

• How Arielle’s early training in somatic psychology shaped the way she learned and practices EMDR
• Why the body scan and somatic check-ins are not just “boxes to tick,” but core guides for pacing, target selection, and resolution
• Polyvagal theory’s view of how trauma gets “tagged” in the nervous system—both in external cues and internal sensations
• What to do when clients say, “I don’t feel anything in my body” and how even that response is meaningful data
• The myth that SUDs “should always go down,” especially with dissociative and complex trauma presentations
• Arielle and Barb Maiberger’s “golden nugget practice” and why we shouldn’t wait for a SUD = 0 to install and future-template meaningful shifts
• Therapist embodiment: using our own nervous system as an instrument for attunement, pacing, and repair

Arielle also shares about her Somatic EMDR trainings through BodyLab, her therapist retreats in Sedona and Costa Rica, and her Beyond Trauma nervous system care retreats, including an immersive experience in South Africa that combines yoga, nervous system education, and observing animals in the wild.

You’ll hear practical language, case examples, and flexible ways to honor EMDR’s structure while staying deeply relational, embodied, and responsive to the nervous system in front of you.

Learn more about Dr. Arielle Schwartz:

• Website (events, retreats, trainings): resilienceinformedtherapy.com
• Website (blog, yoga, additional resources): drarielleschwartz.com

Check out her card deck that integrates nature photography with quotes from The Post-Traumatic Growth Guidebook—a powerful tool for helping clients locate themselves in their healing process and set intentions for EMDR and somatic work.

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In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen sit down with neurofeedback expert Leigh Povia, LCSW, RPT, BCN, founder of Center for Dynamic Growth, to explore how neurofeedback can strengthen, support, and accelerate trauma therapy.

Together, they discuss:

• What neurofeedback actually is—beyond the buzzwords
• How brainwave training mirrors internal states and supports regulation
• Why neurofeedback can open doors when EMDR alone feels “stuck”
• How clinicians can partner with neurofeedback providers
• The developmental trauma connection: attachment, arousal, and brain-based interventions
• A powerful case example of a child whose system finally found calm
• Practical uses for neurofeedback in resourcing, closure, and state stabilization

Leigh shares candidly about her own learning curve, what it’s like to bring neurofeedback into an EMDR practice, and how both modalities can work in harmony rather than competition.

If you’ve ever wondered whether neurofeedback could strengthen your EMDR work, this episode is a rich and relatable introduction.

Resources Mentioned:

• Leigh’s course: Demystifying Neurofeedback
• Center for Dynamic Growth: CenterForDynamicGrowth.com

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In this episode, we wrap up our series on working memory theory in EMDR by sitting down with Sander, co-founder of WeMind—a digital platform designed to optimize bilateral stimulation, track real-time client engagement, and bring advanced working memory taxation into both virtual and in-person EMDR sessions.

We explore:

• How WeMind adapts working memory load dynamically during sets
• Why random-interval taxation may enhance reprocessing
• The shift from hardware (light bars, tappers) to integrated platforms
• Cultural differences in EMDR practice across countries
• How tech can support relational, attuned therapy rather than replace it

This episode features conversation only—the demonstration portion appears exclusively on YouTube.

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Jen and Bridger finally sit down to share stories and reflections from the 2024 EMDRIA Conference — a few weeks (or months?) later than planned. From early-morning flights and beachside content shoots to laughter-filled dinners and deep professional reflections, this episode captures the whirlwind of being presenters, exhibitors, and community builders all at once.

They talk candidly about what it was like to present Enactment-Focused EMDR for the first time, the energy of meeting listeners face-to-face, and their behind-the-scenes take on the polarizing buzz around EMDR 2.0. It’s part travelogue, part professional reflection, and all the reasons this work matters.

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In this episode, Bridger and Jen sit down with David Polidi, Bruce Hersey (Syzygy Institute), and Peggy Kolodny (Art Therapy Collective) to explore the forthcoming anthology IFS-Informed EMDR. Together, they unpack how EMDR’s eight phases can be enriched—not replaced—by Internal Family Systems (IFS), art therapy, and Jungian active imagination.

You’ll hear:

• Why Bruce views the target as a part—and how that changes the way we conceptualize trauma work.
• How protectors vs. exiles organize around different types of energy (urge vs. disturbance).
• The emergence of Phase 2.5 / Discovery, bridging resourcing and processing.
• How art-making and active imagination safely access nonverbal, somatic memory.
• Bridger’s chapter, “A Window and a Mirror”, introducing the Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP) model for case conceptualization as an intersubjective, diversity-honoring map.

This conversation is both practical and philosophical—an invitation to deepen precision, creativity, and compassion in trauma therapy.

Preorder the book: IFS-Informed EMDR: Creative and Collaborative Approaches on Amazon

Support the show: patreon.com/thinkbeyondhealing

Trainings & consults: connectbeyondhealing.com → Trainings tab

Follow: @Notice_That_Podcast

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