What If the Therapist Was the Most Powerful Intervention in EMDR?

Reclaiming the Human Thread in Trauma Therapy

In the world of EMDR therapy, conversations about techniques, protocols, and procedures often dominate the training space. But what if something even more powerful has been quietly present all along? What if the most transformative tool in EMDR isn’t the protocol—it’s the presence of the therapist?

In a recent episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, we sat down with Dana Carretta Stein—EMDR therapist, consultant, and creator of @the_emdr_coach—to talk about something we believe is foundational but too often overlooked: the humanness of the therapist.

What started as a conversation about social media quickly became a deep dive into identity, presence, and the profound responsibility we carry as healing professionals. Together, we explored the tension between objectivity and authenticity, protocol and personhood—and how returning to our full humanity may be the very thing that deepens healing for everyone in the room.

The Therapist Is Not a Blank Slate

Why Authenticity Isn’t a Liability

From the earliest days of graduate training, many of us were taught to strive for neutrality. Keep your personal life out of the room. Don’t display family photos. Don’t self-disclose. Don’t “do therapy on your friends.” While some of this advice is meant to protect boundaries, it also sends a subtler message: your full self does not belong here.

Dana, a deeply relational therapist and group practice owner, pushes back on that message with both clarity and warmth. She shares openly about the exhaustion of compartmentalization and the healing power of being “unavoidably authentic” in the therapy room.

“Clients don’t need a perfect therapist,” Dana reminds us. “They need a human one.”

This doesn’t mean we flood the space with our stories or blur boundaries. It means we let ourselves be present—not as clinical instruments, but as nervous systems, as parents, as people with real emotions, histories, and insight.

Intersubjectivity Is Powerful—And Necessary

Relational Healing Requires a Relational Presence

One of the core themes of this episode is the reclaiming of intersubjectivity—the idea that therapy is not just something we do to a client, but something we co-create with them. The standard EMDR model often emphasizes staying out of the way, trusting the protocol, and avoiding contamination of the client’s process.

But what happens when we over-apply that detachment? What do we lose when we forget that transformation often happens between us, not just within them?

We explore this together by naming what we see in our own work:

• Therapists who dissociate behind the script
• Clients who learn to “perform” EMDR without truly connecting
• Sessions that feel technically correct but relationally sterile

Instead, we offer a vision of EMDR that is alive with presence. One where therapist and client are both brave enough to be real.

Countertransference Isn’t the Problem—Disconnection Is

Why Your “Stuff” Belongs in the Room (with Reflection)

Dana names something many of us intuitively feel but rarely say: the therapist’s unresolved material will show up in the work. The question is not whether it appears, but whether we recognize it, reflect on it, and take care of it somewhere outside the session.

In this episode, we talk about the difference between:

• Reflexive self-disclosure and intentional vulnerability
• Hidden agendas and clean attunement
• Transference reenactments and relational repair

Bridger names this beautifully: “What brought us into this field is often the same strategy we re-enact during the work itself.” Without awareness, this strategy can hijack the process. But with reflection, it becomes a strength—a superpower, as Dana says.

Human First, Then Therapist

Why Presence Is the Foundation of Conceptualization

When Dana trains therapists in her practice, she begins with one simple phrase:

“Human first. Then be a therapist.”

This isn't just good advice for preventing burnout. It’s a core principle of case conceptualization. The more connected we are to our own internal world, the more intuitively and compassionately we can understand our clients.

From this lens, the therapist’s body isn’t a neutral container—it’s an instrument of resonance.

The therapeutic relationship isn’t a backdrop—it’s the medium through which healing travels.

This conversation reaffirms what many therapists long to hear:

You are not too much. Your humanness is not in the way. It is the way.

Want to Go Deeper?

If this conversation sparked something in you—if you’ve ever felt unsure how to bring your full self into EMDR therapy, or if you’re craving a framework that honors both person and protocol—we’d love to invite you into further learning:

The SIP Training

Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP) is our signature approach to relational, neurodevelopmentally-informed EMDR therapy. It helps therapists move beyond rigid techniques into real-time attunement, case conceptualization, and presence.

If you want to understand what’s really happening in the space between you and your client—and how to work with it—this training is for you.

EMDR Certification Program

Already trained in EMDR but feeling stuck in the structure? Our certification program is a mentorship-rich, community-based path to reclaiming your confidence and creativity as an EMDR therapist.

We focus on real-world application, reflective consultation, and helping you become the therapist you were always meant to be.

Free Resource: Exploring Your Humanness in Therapy

Want to start now? Comment the word “mirror” on any of our social media posts and we’ll send you a free download of our chapter:A Window and a Mirror: Somatic Integration and Processing for Case Conceptualization. It’s a practical, reflective guide to help you see how your own story shows up in the therapy room—and how to make it your greatest asset.

Takeaways for Your Practice

Here are a few questions to carry with you this week:

• What parts of yourself feel most at home in the therapy room? Which ones still feel left out?
• How does your own nervous system shape the intersubjective field?
• Are you hiding behind the protocol—or letting it support your presence?
• What would change if you trusted your intuition just a little more?

The relational thread of therapy is not a liability to manage—it’s the fabric that holds the work together. When we remember this, the work becomes less about what we do, and more about who we are when we do it.

Let’s keep walking that path. Together.

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“To be a culturally competent therapist is to be a human first—curious, aware, humble, and willing to grow.”

In this powerful episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Jen Savage sits down with EMDR therapist, author, and cultural competence advocate Mark Nickerson, LICSW for a rich and timely conversation about what it really means to bring cultural responsiveness into our clinical work.

This episode invites clinicians to think beyond checkboxes and intake forms—and to reflect on how their personal stories, social identities, and cultural histories shape the therapy they provide. Together, Jen and Mark explore how EMDR can help process both internalized oppression and social bias, and how the work of healing requires an ongoing willingness to look inward.

“Cultural humility isn’t an add-on—it’s at the heart of any real change.”

— Mark Nickerson, LICSW

Why This Conversation Matters

Therapists often long to be affirming, inclusive, and aware—but aren’t sure where to begin. Mark’s insights offer both practical steps and deep philosophical grounding. His perspective is shaped by decades of clinical work, social advocacy, and a commitment to human rights.

He shares stories from early workshops where EMDR was used to process two core themes:

1. A memory of being excluded or discriminated against
2. A memory of holding bias or participating in exclusion

In both cases, EMDR offered clarity, healing, and increased self-awareness—making space for deeper empathy and greater readiness to grow.

Featured Topics:

• What it means to do your own cultural work as a therapist
• How identity, privilege, and power dynamics shape the therapy process
• Using EMDR to target internalized oppression and social bias
• Legacy trauma, intergenerational pain, and cultural narratives
• How cultural humility invites us into lifelong self-examination
• Why EMDR is well-suited to address culturally based trauma—when practiced with awareness

About the Book

Mark is the editor and contributing author of the seminal book

Cultural Competence and Healing Culturally Based Trauma with EMDR Therapy (2nd ed., 2023).

Spanning more than 400 pages, the book includes seven chapters by Mark and 20 more by authors with diverse identities, backgrounds, and clinical expertise. It addresses racial trauma, immigration and asylum seeking, social class, systemic oppression, and cultural adaptations of EMDR around the world.

Whether you read it cover-to-cover or use it as a chapter-by-chapter resource, it’s an essential tool for therapists seeking to deepen their work.

📘 Learn more about the book and Mark’s work at: markinickerson.com

Want to Go Even Deeper?

If this conversation stirred something in you—if you’re beginning to ask how your own story shows up in the therapy room—consider exploring the Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP) framework.

SIP isn’t a replacement for EMDR. It’s a lens that helps therapists explore the worldview they bring into their work. It asks:

• Why do I respond this way in session?
• What does safety mean to me?
• What am I unconsciously avoiding?

SIP helps therapists do their own work—by mapping how our nervous systems, identities, and histories shape our therapeutic presence.

📥 Want to explore it for yourself?

Comment “mirror” on our Instagram page or visit connectbeyondhealing.com and search “SIP” to receive a free PDF chapter on the SIP model.

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What happens when a visionary academic, a few decades of lived EMDR experience, and a global perspective meet a pair of U.S.-based EMDR trainers hungry for evolution?

You get a conversation that challenges everything we take for granted about training, research, and the future of trauma therapy.

In a recent episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, we had the immense honor of sitting down with Dr. Derek Farrell—clinical psychologist, international EMDR leader, Trauma Aid Europe president, and editor of the forthcoming Oxford Handbook of EMDR. His voice is rare in our community: one that spans the trenches of EMDR practice, the architecture of academic programs, and the politics of international research.

And he’s not afraid to say what others only whisper.

“EMDR is very, very good at talking to itself,” Farrell told us. “But it would be very useful to be more friendly with other organizations.”

Farrell sees the echo chamber. He names the structural gaps. And he points toward the opportunities we’re missing if we don’t open up.

The Missed Opportunities of a Siloed Model

Since his first training with Francine Shapiro in the 1990s, Farrell has witnessed the evolution of EMDR from fringe to globally recognized treatment. But he’s also watched how the field’s franchise-style model has limited its ability to join the larger scientific conversation.

“If you look at the ISTSS annual conference, how many papers are based on EMDR? Very few,” he noted. “And that’s a missed opportunity, because they’re one of the major political players in informing health policy.”

Farrell urges the EMDR community to step out of self-reinforcing training cycles and into more robust, interdisciplinary partnerships—particularly with academic institutions and trauma researchers in CBT and related fields.

“We have to stop being so insular. If we don’t, we’ll lose space to something else. The future won’t be in our hands—it’ll move on.”

The Case for Academic Integration

Farrell isn’t calling for the abolition of professional trainings—but he’s asking us to see their limits. Especially in countries where trauma prevalence is high and mental health infrastructure is limited, the standard credentialing pipeline simply isn’t realistic—or ethical.

“You can’t make decisions in first-world economies about how third-world health systems should deliver care,” he said, referencing his trauma capacity work in Iraq. “They don’t have 10 years to wait for an indigenous EMDR trainer.”

In one particularly poignant story, Farrell described how a UK university removed EMDR from its trauma curriculum entirely because their two course leaders—both widely published psychologists—weren’t credentialed EMDR trainers. The credentialing system, he argued, had failed the field.

“That would’ve been an amazing opportunity to bring EMDR into mainstream trauma psychology. And we missed it.”

Credentialing Is Not the Enemy—But It Can’t Be the Only Path

Despite his critiques, Farrell is no enemy of credentialing. In fact, he sees it as critical for clinician protection and client safety.

“If a client is choosing between two EMDR therapists—one credentialed and one not—they will always choose the credentialed one,” he said. “And they should.”

But he’s clear: our current model doesn’t serve the spectrum of learners, educators, and clients. We need both professional and academic pathways. We need to distinguish between basic attendance and demonstrated competence. And we need to stop pretending that a seven-day training is equivalent to a psychotherapy education.

“The contradiction is we call it a basic training, but we also say EMDR is a powerful therapy,” he told us. “Those two things don’t go together.”

What About the Protocol? Isn’t That Enough?

In the trenches, EMDR therapists often cling to the eight-phase protocol as a kind of life raft. But Farrell challenged us to see it differently.

“The protocol is highly forgiving,” he said. “We miss bits out, we forget the VOC or the negative cognition, and the client still processes. That’s the magic of it. But we need to teach people not just the steps—but why and how to break the rules wisely.”

Farrell encourages trainers and educators to move beyond memorization and into meaning—especially when the bulk of clients are not single-incident trauma survivors.

“We’re teaching to a model that doesn’t reflect the reality of most people’s caseloads,” he said. “It’s no wonder there’s burnout and drop-out after level one.”

So… Where Do We Go From Here?

Farrell’s parting thoughts were both sobering and deeply hopeful.

“We need to get the AIP model into undergrad. Into graduate programs. Into social work and psychology and counseling degrees. Because when students understand that model, EMDR is no longer a leap. It’s a natural next step.”

He’s also spearheading a massive academic effort to support that very integration: The Oxford Handbook of EMDR, set to release later this year.

“We’ve built it as a robust, evidence-based academic text,” he shared. “Forty-five chapters. Past, present, and future. It will be the most definitive handbook we’ve had.”

Farrell’s message to the EMDR community? The time is now. To break out of silos. To let go of professional tribalism. To prioritize accessibility and integrity over exclusivity.

“Francine always said the future is in our hands. But if we’re not careful, it won’t be.”

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What If EMDR Was a Fully Somatic Therapy?

In the world of EMDR therapy, conversations about somatics are becoming more and more common. But what if somatics wasn’t just a helpful layer to add onto EMDR? What if it was the foundation? What if we could reimagine EMDR as a truly somatic therapy—one that centers the body as the primary source of healing, rather than just another variable to account for?

In a recent episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Melissa, Bridger, and Jen gathered to reflect on their first EMDR Basic Training as trainers through Beyond Healing Institute—and to introduce a new series that dares to ask big, paradigm-shifting questions about the nature of trauma and the future of EMDR.

Launching Something New: The First Beyond Healing EMDR Training

After two years of planning and waiting for approval, the team finally launched their EMDR Basic Training—and it exceeded expectations. What struck them most was how natural the experience felt. The structure of the training emphasized spaciousness, human connection, and honoring the therapist as a vital part of the therapeutic process. Participants left not just informed, but embodied—ready to bring the work into their practice with confidence and clarity.

For Melissa, this experience prompted deeper questions about the nature of EMDR itself—questions that have been simmering for years: What would it mean to practice EMDR from a truly somatic orientation? What would change if we made the body—not the memory—the primary focus?

Trauma as the Disallowance of Natural Expression

One of the core ideas introduced in this episode is a somatic definition of trauma:

Trauma is a moment when the body is disallowed its natural response.

Whether through physical restraint, anesthesia, shaming, fear, or relational danger, the body’s innate need to express gets halted. What remains is energy that no longer has a context—a charge without a story. That disoriented energy gets stored in the body and, over time, leads to patterns of dissociation, confusion, and eventually depression.

From this lens, trauma work is about recontextualizing that energy—giving it back its story—and then addressing the fear (or phobia) that originally caused it to be repressed. Healing, then, becomes about both remembering and reclaiming what the body lost access to.

Suppression, Repression, and Depression: A Somatic Venn Diagram

The team explored the difference between suppression and repression, noting that these terms are often used interchangeably but reflect very different processes. Suppression is a conscious decision to hold something back—functional, temporary, and often socially necessary. Repression, on the other hand, is unconscious and usually the result of overwhelming trauma.

Chronic repression, over time, often leads to depression—what Melissa described as a loss of access to the body’s vital energy. This devitalization shows up as apathy, confusion, loss of identity, and disconnection from wants, needs, and affect. The work of trauma healing becomes a process of revitalization—not just regulation.

Moving Beyond Regulation

One of the major themes of this episode is the critique of the current cultural obsession with “nervous system regulation.” While regulation is a helpful part of the process, it is far from the whole picture. Melissa invites us to ask:

Why are we so afraid of activation? Why do we associate calmness with healing, and intensity with danger?

From a somatic lens, regulation is not about minimizing activation—it’s about supporting the body in accurately responding to the environment. That means we need to move beyond the dichotomy of regulated = good and dysregulated = bad. Sometimes, yelling, shaking, crying, or expressing intense emotion is the most accurate and necessary response a body can have.

Rewriting the Protocol: Why EMDR Isn’t Somatic (Yet)

Despite its growing popularity, EMDR in its standard form is not a somatic therapy. As Melissa puts it bluntly:

“The only thing somatic about the standard protocol is one question: ‘Where do you feel that in your body?’”

Even the body scan at the end of Phase 6 is often used to check if the client is “done,” rather than to deeply listen to the body’s story. Somatics, in its truest form, isn’t about control or compliance. It’s about contact. Real, honest, present-moment contact with the body as it is—not as we want it to be.

The team explored how preparation in somatically-focused EMDR would look radically different. Rather than beginning with calmness and containment, it might begin with something more raw and real:

“Welcome to your body. How does it feel to be here? What sensations do you notice? Can you feel your aliveness?”

Preparing the Body for Healing

In this series, the team will continue to explore how trauma healing changes when we lead with the body. Upcoming episodes will dive into:

• The concept of affect phobia—why we’re so afraid of feeling, and how to titrate our way back into sensation.
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• The somatic preparation phase—how to support clients in making safe, loving contact with their bodies before jumping into memory work.
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• The reclamation of sensation and affect—how we guide clients back into vitality in ways that feel empowering, not destabilizing.
• 
  

And most importantly: how to do all of this without losing the humanity, play, and relational connection that makes healing possible

Want to Learn More?

If this episode sparked something in you—whether a question, a memory, or a deep resonance—we want to invite you into further learning. Beyond Healing Institute’s EMDR Basic Training is infused with this somatic lens, and there are three opportunities to join us in 2025:

🗓️ May 15–17 | Springfield, Missouri (Live + Zoom)

🗓️ August 7–9 | Springfield, Missouri (Live + Zoom)

🗓️ November 13–15 | Springfield, Missouri (Live + Zoom)

You can learn more and register at connectbeyondhealing.com

Takeaways for Your Practice

Here are a few reflections you might carry with you into your clinical work:

• Reconsider what it means to “regulate.” Is calmness the goal—or is presence?
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• Invite the body into the process—not as a data point, but as a guide.
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• Be curious about what was disallowed. What energy, affect, or expression was blocked—and why?
• 
  
• Give clients permission to rediscover themselves. Vitality can be confusing at first. Let there be room for exploration, play, and gentle messiness.
• 
  

The somatic turn in EMDR isn’t a rejection of the protocol—it’s a reimagining of what’s possible when we bring the whole human into the room. Including ourselves.

What stood out to you from this conversation? How are you thinking about trauma, the body, and EMDR differently? Drop a comment or reach out—we’d love to keep this dialogue going.

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In the world of EMDR therapy, it's easy to get caught up in technique—perfecting protocols, refining scripts, and ensuring procedural accuracy. But what happens when we step beyond protocol and start seeing the therapeutic process as an intersubjective experience—one that includes not just our clients but ourselves as well?

In a recent episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, we had the opportunity to sit down with Jenniffer Weller-White, LCSW, and Nicole Deems, LMFT, both clinicians and EMDR consultants who have been immersed in the work of Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP) for several years. Their journey through EMDR, SIP, and case conceptualization offers a powerful insight into how these frameworks can revolutionize the way we think about therapy—not just for our clients, but for our own growth and development as therapists.

Case Conceptualization: More Than Treatment Planning

One of the core themes of this conversation was rethinking case conceptualization. Traditionally, case conceptualization has been viewed as a tool for treatment planning—a structured way to organize symptoms, identify target memories, and plan interventions. But Jenniffer and Nicole emphasize that it’s so much more than that.

“Case conceptualization is not just about treatment planning—it’s about every facet of the therapeutic process, including our own professional development.”

At its core, case conceptualization is about making meaning—understanding how a client’s strategies, symptoms, and relational patterns are expressions of their life experiences. SIP provides a language and framework for recognizing these patterns in a way that humanizes them rather than reducing them to clinical formulations.

Instead of seeing symptoms as pathology, SIP invites us to view them as adaptive strategies—deeply ingrained responses that once served a purpose. When we shift from problem-solving mode to meaning-making mode, we create space for clients to understand themselves in a new and profoundly validating way.

The Language of Strategy: Reframing “Symptoms”

A major takeaway from this discussion was the importance of language in therapy. Words shape perception. The way we describe a client’s experiences directly impacts how they interpret themselves.

Jenniffer and Nicole shared how SIP has changed the way they talk about “triggers” and “maladaptive behaviors”—terms that can sometimes feel pathologizing. Instead, they use the word “strategy.”

“Being able to neutralize language around being ‘triggered’ and instead frame it as a strategy is incredibly softening for clients. It shifts the focus from ‘something is wrong with me’ to ‘this is how I learned to survive.’”

This subtle shift can be transformative. When a client moves from feeling shame about their symptoms to seeing them as intelligent, adaptive responses to past experiences, they can begin to approach their healing with compassion instead of self-judgment.

Even more powerful? When clients themselves adopt this language.

“I love when clients start using the word ‘strategy’ themselves—when they say things like, ‘Oh, I think this is just my system’s strategy to keep me safe.’ That’s when you know a shift is happening.”

The Intersubjective Space: Healing Through Relationship

A core principle of SIP is the intersubjective space—the relational field between therapist and client where healing occurs.

In traditional EMDR, the therapist’s role is often viewed as directive: administering the protocol, tracking the client’s responses, and moving them through the phases of treatment. While this structure is necessary, Jenniffer and Nicole spoke to the depth that is added when we integrate the relational component.

“At first, EMDR felt too prescriptive to me. When I found SIP, I realized it was giving language to what I was already doing—bringing in the human, relational, and nuanced aspects of therapy.”

When we understand the intersubjective space, we become aware of what’s happening between us and our clients in real time—the subtle shifts, the unspoken communication, the moments of connection or disconnection. Instead of simply “delivering” EMDR, we learn to co-create the experience with our clients.

This is especially important when working with complex trauma, where the wound itself is often relational. Healing doesn’t come from following a script—it comes from the experience of being truly seen and understood.

“Disconfirming experiences happen in the intersubjective space. Clients don’t just hear new information—they feel something different in the relationship with us, and that’s what changes them.”

Building Community Through Shared Language

One of the most exciting aspects of SIP isn’t just its impact on client work—it’s how it has helped build a professional community.

Jennifer and Nicole shared how their shared language has transformed the way they collaborate—from peer supervision to case consultation to even co-facilitating trainings.

“We can reduce barriers in our field by building shared language. Even if our sessions look different, we can come together with the same foundational understanding.”

This vision has led them to expand SIP training in South Carolina, where they are working to bring together clinicians who want to connect through this framework and build ongoing consultation communities.

Takeaways for Your Practice

So, what can you take from this conversation and start using in your own work?

1. Reframe symptoms as strategies – Instead of seeing client behaviors as “problems,” recognize them as adaptive strategies that have helped them survive.
2. Use shared language to enhance therapy – Introduce terms like strategy, intersubjective space, and system activation to help clients better understand their experiences.
3. Recognize the role of relationship in EMDR – Protocols are important, but healing happens in the relational space. Stay attuned to what’s unfolding between you and your client.
4. Build community around case conceptualization – Having a shared framework makes consultation richer, deepens professional relationships, and combats burnout.

Upcoming Opportunities to Learn More

If this resonates with you, there are some exciting opportunities to engage further:

EMDR Canada Conference (March 2025 – Vancouver, BC)

We’re thrilled to be presenting Breaking the Relational Enactment: Mapping the Cycle of Repression, where we’ll explore how unconscious cycles keep clients stuck and how we can interrupt these patterns in EMDR therapy.

SIP Training in South Carolina (May 2025 – Hybrid Option Available)

Jennifer and Nicole are hosting an in-person SIP Level 1 Training, where you can dive deep into this framework and connect with a growing community of therapists integrating these concepts.

EMDRIA Conference Proposal (Fall 2025 – Pending Approval!)

We’ve submitted our proposal for Enactment-Focused EMDR: Targeting the Space Between Attachment Wounds. This presentation will focus on how attachment wounds shape enactments in therapy and how EMDR can be used to target the space between those wounds, helping clients break free from unconscious relational patterns.

If you’re interested in learning more about these trainings, upcoming events, or getting involved in consultation, check out Beyond Healing Institute.

SIP, EMDR, and case conceptualization are more than clinical tools—they are invitations into deeper understanding, connection, and transformation. Whether you’re a new therapist or a seasoned clinician, there is always room to refine the way we make meaning of our work.

What are your takeaways from this? How has case conceptualization shaped your clinical journey? Drop a comment and let’s keep the conversation going!

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Bridging EMDR and Somatic Experiencing: A Conversation with Amanda Johnson & Rachel Cagle

Curious about how EMDR and Somatic Experiencing can work together? In this episode of Notice That, we explore the integration of these two modalities, the challenges and rewards of blending them, and how they can enhance trauma therapy. Tune in to hear Amanda Johnson and Rachel Cagle share their insights and experiences with Jen.

Listen to the Full Episode: Somatic Experiencing and EMDR: Interview with Amanda Johnson and Rachel Cagle 

Why Blend EMDR and Somatic Experiencing?

Many trauma therapists are trained in both EMDR and SE but struggle with how to integrate them effectively. EMDR provides a structured, protocol-driven approach to trauma reprocessing, while SE is a more fluid, intuitive method focused on tracking bodily sensations and releasing stored survival energy. Despite their differences, these modalities share a common goal: helping clients process trauma in a way that feels safe and regulated for their nervous system.

Our guests, Amanda Johnson, LCSW, and Rachel Cagle, LPC, share their journeys into both EMDR and SE and how they’ve learned to blend them in practice.

💬 Amanda: “I had a profound personal experience with a therapist who integrated EMDR and somatic work. That moment changed everything for me—I realized there was so much more happening in my body than I had been aware of.”

💬 Rachel: “Talk therapy alone felt like it was missing something. When I started receiving somatic therapy as a client, it shifted something internally for me. I knew I wanted to bring that into my work with clients.”

Where EMDR and SE Complement Each Other

Throughout the episode, Amanda and Rachel highlight specific ways that SE can enhance EMDR, particularly for clients who struggle with embodiment.

🔹 Pendulation and Titration: SE emphasizes moving between activation and regulation, mirroring EMDR’s use of dual attention and calm place resourcing. “In SE, we learn to gently introduce activation, pendulate back to safety, and slowly build the nervous system’s capacity for intensity,” Rachel explains.

🔹 Tracking the Body’s Cues: EMDR often includes body scans, but SE provides a deeper framework for understanding bodily signals. Amanda describes how SE helps her notice micro-movements in clients—like subtle shifts in breath or posture—that offer valuable information for the healing process.

🔹 Expanding Affect Tolerance Before Reprocessing: One of the biggest mistakes therapists make in EMDR is pushing into reprocessing before a client has the affect tolerance to stay with activation. SE teaches clinicians how to gradually increase that tolerance, making EMDR more effective. “If a system doesn’t yet know how to process and release activation, it’s too early for trauma processing,” Amanda explains.

Challenges in Integration

Despite their synergy, integrating these approaches can be tricky. Amanda shares a formative experience early in her training where she presented an EMDR case at a Peter Levine case consultation.

💬 Amanda: “I had just finished my EMDR training and had worked with a client using a single-episode trauma approach. When I described this in the consultation, I felt like I had made a huge mistake—like EMDR wasn’t supposed to be used for this client’s complex trauma history. That moment really threw me. I actually put EMDR on the shelf for a while because I wasn’t sure how to reconcile the two approaches.”

For Rachel, the challenge has been introducing SE concepts to long-term EMDR clients.

💬 Rachel: “With newer clients, I can naturally integrate both approaches from the beginning, but with established clients, I sometimes have to introduce SE more explicitly. It can feel like I’m asking them to do something totally different, and that takes some adjusting.”

Do Therapists Need Formal SE Training to Work Somatically?

If you’re an EMDR therapist who wants to bring in more somatic awareness but isn’t sure if full SE training is the right path, Amanda and Rachel suggest exploring:

✅ Polyvagal Theory: Learning about nervous system states can significantly enhance your EMDR work.

✅ Shorter Somatic Trainings: Many organizations offer introductory somatic courses that are less intensive than full SE certification.

✅ Personal Somatic Work: One of the best ways to integrate somatics into your practice is to experience it yourself. “If we’re asking our clients to engage with their bodies in this way, we should be doing that work, too,” Amanda emphasizes.

Final Thoughts: An Ongoing Integration

Blending EMDR and SE isn’t about choosing one over the other—it’s about allowing both to influence the way we show up with clients. As Amanda puts it:

💬 “EMDR gave me the coloring book—the structure and framework—but SE taught me how to color outside the lines in a way that makes sense for each client.”

For therapists who feel torn between structured and fluid approaches, Rachel offers this encouragement:

💬 “Everything doesn’t have to fit neatly into a model. The best therapy is relational, responsive, and flexible. Give yourself permission to integrate what works for you.”

Connect with Amanda & Rachel

If you’re interested in learning more about integrating EMDR and SE, Amanda and Rachel both offer consultation:

🔹 Amanda Johnson, LCSW – amandajohnsonlcsw.com

🔹 Rachel Cagle, LPC – Connect via Beyond Healing

What are your thoughts on blending EMDR and SE? Have you tried integrating somatic approaches into your trauma work? Let us know in the comments below!

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Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger sit down with Kristine Mark-Griffin for a discussion on working with children using EMDR. Christine is the founder of EMDR for Kids. She is an EMDRIA approved Consultant & advanced trainer. She is the author of the award winning EMDR Workbook for Kids and is the lead trainer at EMDR for Kids. Christine’s professional experience has included working in non-profit, child welfare, juvenile justice, community mental health, school-based mental health and higher education settings. Working in these various settings over the years has deepened her knowledge and understanding of complex trauma but has also exposed her to some of the most beautiful stories of healing and resilience. Christine is also a perinatal mental health certified therapist and loves working with expecting and new mamas! She provides a variety of EMDR consultation services & training and welcomes EMDR clinicians to join her offerings below!

If you are a therapist who is interested in working towards EMDR certification or becoming a Consultant-in-training (CIT) with Christine, please complete the

All EMDR therapists are welcome to join monthly drop-in EMDR consultation groups.

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Listen in to hear Jen, Melissa, and Bridger talk about their relationship over the past five years in starting Beyond Healing and embracing authenticity and humanness through it all.

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Happy New Year! Listen in to hear Jen and Bridger talk about some super exciting things coming in 2025 including a new podcast setup, conference presentations, a new EMDR Basic Training, and so much more!

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In this exciting episode, we sit down with Danielle Ciccone and Michele Topel, the creators of Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy. Combining the transformative power of EMDR with the therapeutic benefits of ketamine, this innovative modality is expanding the possibilities for trauma healing and mental wellness.

Danielle and Michele, co-founders of the Ketamine-Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute, share insights into the neurobiology behind this approach, the development of their EMDRIA-approved advanced training, and the results of their 2024 pilot study demonstrating significant reductions in PTSD symptoms.

Tune in to explore:

• How Ketamine-Assisted EMDR was developed.
• The unique synergy between EMDR and ketamine therapy.
• Key considerations for clinicians interested in integrating this modality into their practice.

Whether you're an EMDR therapist or someone passionate about cutting-edge trauma therapies, this episode is packed with valuable insights you won’t want to miss.

Learn more about their work at ketamineassistedemdr.com.

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