Jen and Bridger finally sit down to share stories and reflections from the 2024 EMDRIA Conference — a few weeks (or months?) later than planned. From early-morning flights and beachside content shoots to laughter-filled dinners and deep professional reflections, this episode captures the whirlwind of being presenters, exhibitors, and community builders all at once.

They talk candidly about what it was like to present Enactment-Focused EMDR for the first time, the energy of meeting listeners face-to-face, and their behind-the-scenes take on the polarizing buzz around EMDR 2.0. It’s part travelogue, part professional reflection, and all the reasons this work matters.

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In this episode, Bridger and Jen sit down with David Polidi, Bruce Hersey (Syzygy Institute), and Peggy Kolodny (Art Therapy Collective) to explore the forthcoming anthology IFS-Informed EMDR. Together, they unpack how EMDR’s eight phases can be enriched—not replaced—by Internal Family Systems (IFS), art therapy, and Jungian active imagination.

You’ll hear:

• Why Bruce views the target as a part—and how that changes the way we conceptualize trauma work.
• How protectors vs. exiles organize around different types of energy (urge vs. disturbance).
• The emergence of Phase 2.5 / Discovery, bridging resourcing and processing.
• How art-making and active imagination safely access nonverbal, somatic memory.
• Bridger’s chapter, “A Window and a Mirror”, introducing the Somatic Integration and Processing (SIP) model for case conceptualization as an intersubjective, diversity-honoring map.

This conversation is both practical and philosophical—an invitation to deepen precision, creativity, and compassion in trauma therapy.

Preorder the book: IFS-Informed EMDR: Creative and Collaborative Approaches on Amazon

Support the show: patreon.com/thinkbeyondhealing

Trainings & consults: connectbeyondhealing.com → Trainings tab

Follow: @Notice_That_Podcast

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The Mosaic Enneagram (Limited Series)

A five-part companion to a six-month consultation cohort for therapists, this series reimagines the Enneagram as a living mosaic across the head, heart, and gut. Grounded in the Nurtured Nature Personality Framework (NNPF), we explore how agency, bonding, and certainty shape our strategies for belonging and becoming. Each episode blends story and theory—moving from personal mistyping and “type rigidity” toward a more generous, triadic self-portrait. You’ll meet the Mosaic Discovery prompts, unpack tensions and coherence within your three centers, and end by crafting an honest self-narrative you can share with safe others. Whether you’re Enneagram-curious or clinically trained, come for language that honors complexity—and tools you can use right away.

Ideal for: therapists, coaches, and reflective humans

For more information, head over to our website.

Series arc: Agency → Bonding → Certainty → Authentic Self-Narrative

The Mosaic Enneagram reframes typology as a three-center mosaic (head/heart/gut) shaped by life in relationship. This episode sets the foundation: why single-type identity feels rigid, how “mosaics” increase nuance, and how the series will guide listeners toward an authentic self-narrative.

Episode Thesis

Personality makes the most sense when we track the interplay of agency (gut), bonding (heart), and certainty (head) across a lifetime—not as one fixed label but as a living pattern that can be named, tested, and refined in safe relationship.

Segment-by-Segment Outline

1. Welcome & Purpose of the Series

• Limited series accompanying a 6-month therapist cohort.
• Practical application over theory-heavy NNPF, but grounded in it.

1. From Pop Typology to Depth Work

• How people often meet the Enneagram (tests, pop content).
• Initial typing vs. lived complexity; why mistyping is common.

1. Personal Origin Stories

• Early encounters with the Enneagram (tests, books, Rohr lectures).
• Relational context matters: partners/teams mirror what we can’t see.

1. Limits of Single-Type Thinking

• Stress/growth paths and wings can still feel constraining.
• “Storying to fit” vs. noticing where the story doesn’t match behavior.

1. Enter the Mosaic

• Three centers = three core “vectors”:
• Agency (gut) – how we move/act/withhold action
• Bonding (heart) – how we seek/guard connection
• Certainty (head) – how we make sense/secure meaning
• Identify a dominant style in each center to form your mosaic.

1. Lived Examples of Reframing

• Reconsidering “type” after deeper relational observation.
• Why a social Five who “feels a lot” isn’t a contradiction.
• How a Nine-in-gut can steer major life decisions toward balance.

1. Honest Self-Narrative as the Goal

• Naming strategies we use vs. what’s authentic.
• Why we need safe others to see ourselves clearly.

1. What’s Next & Homework

• Complete the Mosaic Discovery prompts before Episode 2.
• Next episodes: Agency → Bonding → Certainty → Self-Narrative.

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New EMDR therapists often feel a gap between basic training and confident, real-world practice. In this conversation, Carol Miles, LCSW-BACS (trainer, consultant, and leader in the South Louisiana EMDR community) joins us to unpack why clinicians drop off after training—and what actually keeps EMDR alive in agencies and private practice.

We cover:

• The five reasons clinicians stall out after basic training—confidence gaps, time/workload, organizational barriers (including insurance/90-minute sessions), cultural & ethical considerations, and keeping skills fresh.
• How relationships, community, and consultation bridge the “I learned it” → “I can do it” gap.
• Using WeMind’s EMDR practice avatars to build real-world confidence with complex presentations.
• What agencies and group practices can do to reduce barriers (scheduling, leadership buy-in, Medicaid/EBP support).
• EMDR’s “yes-and” posture—honoring standard protocol while integrating DBT skills, somatic work, intensives, and innovations like EMDR 2.0 (Ad de Jongh & Suzy Matthijssen).
• The field’s shift toward cultural humility and anti-racist practice, and why it matters for outcomes and equity.
• An invitation to Ad & Suzy’s New Orleans training on Oct 24–25, 2025 (live + virtual) on complex trauma, dissociation, and personality disorders.

Whether you’re fresh from Part 2 or years into EMDR, this episode will help you practice with confidence, find (or build) the right community, and keep your skills both ethical and current.

Guest: Carol Miles — trainer, consultant, and host of the South Louisiana EMDR Regional Network • https://carolmiles.com

Don't forget to check out the training Carol mentioned with Ad de Jongh and Suzy Matthijssen, hosted in person in New Orleans with virtual seat options available. Head over to Carol's website for more details.

Also, if you're interested in the training Jen talked about in the intro with Sarah Butler, check out the event page here: Understanding Intensive EMDR and use the promo code BEYOND55 for 20% off!

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EMDR 2.0: A Conversation with Suzy Matthijssen & Ad de Jongh

Recorded live at the EMDRIA conference, Bridger and Jen sit down with the developers of EMDR 2.0, Suzy Matthijssen and Ad de Jongh. Together, they explore how intensive trauma treatment, working memory taxation, and reconsolidation theory are shaping the next generation of EMDR. From four-sessions-a-day protocols to online innovations born during COVID, this conversation brings cutting-edge clinical research into dialogue with the everyday realities of client care.

Summary

In this special conference episode of Notice That, Jen and Bridger interview Suzy Matthijssen and Ad de Jongh, two of the leading voices behind EMDR 2.0. The conversation moves between history, research, and practice, offering clinicians a front-row seat to the evolution of trauma treatment.

Key Themes:

• Origins of Intensive Trauma Treatment
• Suzy and Ad describe how intensive models—four sessions a day across multiple days—emerged from working with treatment-resistant clients and evolved further during the pandemic into effective online formats.
• The Science of EMDR 2.0
• They outline three core pillars:

1. Activation – ensuring traumatic memories are fully brought into working memory.
2. Taxation – increasing working memory load through diverse tasks (eye movements, spelling, music interference, etc.) to reduce vividness and emotionality.
3. Motivation – equipping clients to actively engage in bringing memories forward rather than passively relying on the therapist.

• Reconsolidation vs. Suppression
• The guests emphasize the importance of ensuring memories are altered and reconsolidated—not avoided or suppressed. Special techniques like blind-to-therapist protocols and flash-forward work help clients stay engaged while navigating shame, fear, or anticipatory anxiety.
• Rethinking Stabilization
• EMDR 2.0 challenges the assumption that long stabilization phases are necessary. Instead, therapists are encouraged to begin trauma processing sooner while maintaining attunement and supporting clients within their window of tolerance.
• The Future of EMDR
• Suzy and Ad share their vision of expanding EMDR beyond PTSD guidelines into personality disorders, depression, and anxiety—arguing that wherever intrusive memories or imagery are at the core of symptomatology, EMDR should play a central role.

This episode highlights how EMDR 2.0 builds on the original eight-phase protocol while integrating decades of research, pointing toward a future where trauma treatment is more efficient, intensive, and broadly applied.

If you want to learn more about EMDR 2.0, head over to www.enhancingtraumatreatment.com

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In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen continue the Back to Basics series by exploring the ever-expanding landscape of EMDR protocols. Why are there so many? Do we really need a new protocol for every presentation, or are there deeper themes that connect them all?

We discuss:

• The difference between the standard 8-phase protocol and the many specialized variations
• Common themes across protocols, such as the three-pronged approach (past, present, future), dual attention, and externalization
• How to discern when to use a specialized protocol and when to trust your clinical creativity within the standard framework
• Why case conceptualization is more powerful than memorizing endless techniques

Whether you’re new to EMDR or a seasoned clinician, this episode will help you feel less overwhelmed by the “protocol overload” and more confident in your ability to adapt EMDR to your clients’ unique needs.

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In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen reconnect after a summer hiatus, weaving personal updates with professional developments that have defined their recent months. Highlights include:

• Summer Life & New Beginnings – From extended family time and outdoor writing sessions to the surprise timing of Willa Jean’s birth during an EMDR basic training, they share stories that set the tone for a season of growth and transition.
• Book Development – They offer a behind-the-scenes look at their collaborative process for The Relational Thread, including how they balance poetic relational writing with research-driven legitimacy, structure chapters, and aim to make dense concepts approachable for any clinician.
• Enactment-Focused EMDR – A preview of their upcoming EMDRIA conference presentation, exploring how enactments reveal the “space between” attachment wounds and why modifying EMDR protocol to center relational dynamics can deepen healing. They outline the theory, the three-layered strategy framework, and the role of the therapeutic relationship as both a mirror and a practice ground for change.
• Bringing it All Together – Both the book and the EF-EMDR protocol grow from the same root: a commitment to address the gaps in EMDR literature, elevate the role of relationship, and invite clinicians into creative, responsive work that goes beyond scripts.

Listeners will leave with a richer understanding of enactments, practical insight into relationally informed EMDR, and a peek at what’s to come in their training and writing projects.

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What happens when EMDR and play therapy collide? In this episode, Bridger and Jen sit down with Christine Mark-Griffin—EMDR child therapist, trainer, and author of The EMDR Workbook for Kids—to explore the art and science of bringing EMDR to children and families. Together they unpack the power of play as a language for healing, how to work with parents as co-regulators, and why case conceptualization is key for working with kids in ongoing trauma. From Roblox as a safe place to the sacred vulnerability of a child pointing to a doll, this conversation invites therapists to join the world of the child—rather than asking the child to join ours.

Whether you’re new to working with kids or ready to deepen your practice, Christine’s insights will leave you inspired to bring more creativity and compassion into your EMDR work.

🎧 Listen now to discover why Christine calls EMDR a superpower for kids—and why we desperately need more EMDR child therapists in the world.

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Why Does EMDR Work? A Dive into Network Neuroscience and the Brain’s Healing Potential

Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) has transformed trauma therapy, but an age-old question lingers: How does it actually work?

For decades, the EMDR community has debated this question. Early theories focused on specific brain structures—the hippocampus for memory, the amygdala for fear, the prefrontal cortex for executive control. This modular perspective helped us make sense of a complex process. But neuroscience has evolved, and so has our understanding.

In Episode 2 of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Bridger Falkenstien and Jen Savage explore a paradigm shift—from modular to network neuroscience—and how this broader lens reshapes the way we think about trauma, healing, and EMDR.

From Modules to Networks: A Shift in Understanding the Brain

Traditionally, neuroscience taught us that individual brain regions had specific jobs. The amygdala processes fear. The hippocampus handles memory. The prefrontal cortex regulates impulses.

This modular view isn’t wrong—it’s just incomplete.

In reality, the brain functions as a dynamic, interconnected system of networks. Modern neuroscience shows us that even when one area specializes in a task, it does so within a web of relationships. Trauma doesn’t just impact a single region; it disrupts the collaboration between networks.

This is where network neuroscience comes in. Instead of asking which part of the brain?, we ask:

• Which networks are interacting?
• How are they integrating—or failing to integrate—under stress?
• How does EMDR facilitate re-integration?

Meet the Big Three: Core Brain Networks in Trauma and Healing

Research in network neuroscience highlights three large-scale networks that play a crucial role in both trauma and recovery:

1. Salience Network (SN)

• Function: Detects and filters what’s important—internal sensations, external stimuli, emotional cues—and decides what deserves attention.
• Trauma Impact: Becomes hypervigilant or shut down, tagging even neutral cues as threats.
• In EMDR: Helps shift between the past (default mode) and present (executive control).

2. Default Mode Network (DMN)

• Function: Self-reflection, autobiographical memory, mentalizing (“Who am I? What happened to me?”).
• Trauma Impact: Loops in shame, rumination, and “frozen” identity narratives.
• In EMDR: Holds the story of the traumatic experience and the meanings made from it.

3. Central Executive Network (CEN)

• Function: Working memory, decision-making, regulating attention.
• Trauma Impact: Goes offline in overwhelm, leaving clients unable to think clearly or plan.
• In EMDR: Critical for top-down regulation of subcortical processes.

These networks don’t operate in isolation—they’re in constant conversation. Trauma disrupts that conversation, leading to disintegration. Healing requires restoring their collaborative flow.

How EMDR Works in the Brain: Beyond the Protocol

During EMDR, when a traumatic memory is activated (Phase 3) and bilateral stimulation (BLS) is applied, something remarkable happens:

• The SN flags the traumatic memory as salient—“Pay attention. This matters.”
• The DMN pulls up self-referential meaning—“This means I’m unsafe/useless/etc.”
• The CEN is invited back online through dual attention tasks, helping the client hold both the memory and the present moment in awareness.

This isn’t just a mechanical process. It’s a forced redistribution of cognitive resources that breaks the brain out of its trauma-locked loop.

As Bridger explains:

“It’s like unpacking an avalanche—slowly taking out the debris so the mountain can reorganize.”

The goal isn’t just to desensitize distress. It’s to help the networks regain their natural flow—so that the body and mind no longer behave as if the trauma is still happening.

The Role of Working Memory Theory

Working Memory Theory suggests that when we overload the brain’s working memory—by recalling the traumatic memory while engaging in a second task like BLS—the vividness and emotional charge of the memory fade.

This theory helps explain why EMDR works, but it’s not the whole story.

• Strength: Shows how “dual attention” can disrupt trauma loops.
• Limitation: Doesn’t account for why some clients feel worse after sessions or why deeper transformation requires relational safety.

This is why Beyond Healing integrates working memory theory within a larger, network-based, relational perspective.

Why Therapists Should Care About Neuroscience

Some may wonder: Why bother with all this neuroscience? Isn’t it enough to follow the EMDR protocol?

Here’s why it matters:

✅ Understanding networks builds confidence in the method.

✅ It empowers therapists to adjust their interventions with intention.

✅ It helps clinicians see why attunement and resourcing aren’t optional—they’re essential to reintegration.

As Savage reflects in the episode:

“This shifts us from memorizing a protocol to creatively, relationally helping clients heal.”

Key Takeaways for Clinicians

• EMDR works by regulating relationships between the SN, DMN, and CEN.
• BLS is more than eye movements—it’s a physiological regulator.
• Attunement and relational safety are as critical as technical precision.
• Neuroscience doesn’t limit creativity—it expands it.

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EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) has transformed the way clinicians approach trauma. But what exactly makes it so effective? Is it the bilateral stimulation? The eight-phase protocol? Or is there something deeper at play in the brain?

In this blog post, we unpack one of the leading theories behind EMDR’s effectiveness: working memory taxation. Drawing from neuroscience, clinical research, and therapist experience, we explore how EMDR works by engaging specific brain systems and redistributing attention and memory resources. This post is ideal for clinicians, students, and curious learners who want to understand the science behind EMDR in clear, accessible terms.

What is Working Memory, and Why Does It Matter in Trauma Therapy?

Working memory is your brain's ability to hold and manipulate information over short periods of time. It’s the mental workspace where you solve problems, remember a phone number long enough to dial it, or pay attention while taking notes.

In the context of trauma, working memory becomes critical because:

• Traumatic memories often dominate attention.
• When the brain is flooded with fear or shame, it struggles to stay in the present.
• Engaging working memory during trauma recall may disrupt the brain’s typical response pattern.

This is the heart of working memory theory in EMDR: if a client holds a traumatic image in mind while simultaneously completing a working memory task (like tracking a moving object), the emotional vividness of the memory is reduced.

"It’s not just distraction—it’s reconsolidation. You’re using one part of the brain to loosen the grip of another."

Research supports this. Studies by Van den Hout, Engelhard, and others (2012) show that taxing working memory reduces the emotional intensity and vividness of traumatic memories.

Understanding the Brain: From Modules to Networks

Early neuroscience often focused on modular thinking:

• Fear = amygdala
• Memory = hippocampus
• Attention = prefrontal cortex

While useful, this model doesn’t explain why trauma affects everything at once.

Enter network neuroscience, a more recent and comprehensive model. Instead of isolated parts, brain functions are distributed across large-scale systems called intrinsic connectivity networks. These networks regulate everything from thought and memory to emotion and attention.

Among the most important are:

1. Default Mode Network (DMN) – self-reflection, autobiographical memory
2. Salience Network (SN) – threat detection, switching between networks
3. Central Executive Network (CEN) – working memory, decision-making

When trauma occurs, these networks lose synchrony. Clients may:

• Loop in shame (DMN)
• Feel hypervigilant or numb (SN)
• Struggle to think clearly (CEN)

What EMDR Is Doing in the Brain

During EMDR, when a distressing memory is activated:

• The Salience Network (SN) flags it as important.
• The Default Mode Network (DMN) brings up self-referential associations.
• The Central Executive Network (CEN) tries to stay present.

Dual attention tasks, such as bilateral stimulation, tax the CEN, anchoring the client in the present moment. This reduces the cognitive resources available to the DMN, weakening the emotional grip of the memory. Meanwhile, the SN helps orchestrate the shift between past and present.

"The SN becomes the conductor, coordinating two orchestras: past (DMN) and present (CEN)."

Memory Reconsolidation in EMDR

Neuroscience shows that memories are not fixed. According to Nader et al. (2000), a memory becomes labile (changeable) when it is reactivated. If, during that reactivation, new information is introduced, the memory can be reconsolidated in a less distressing form.

EMDR leverages this by:

• Activating the memory (DMN)
• Providing a new experience (CEN + therapeutic presence)
• Re-tagging the emotional salience (SN)

It’s not that the memory disappears. It’s that the brain knows how to relate to it differently.

Critiquing Working Memory Theory: What It Gets Right and What It Misses

What It Gets Right:

• Working memory tasks disrupt trauma memory vividness.
• Bilateral stimulation engages attention and reduces fear.
• Dual-task interference is measurable and repeatable in lab settings.

What It Misses:

• EMDR is not a mechanical task. Relationship matters.
• Trauma isn’t just about intensity—it’s about meaning.
• The SN requires emotional safety to flag experiences as worth integrating.

"The working memory load softens the emotional punch, but it’s the network reconnection—guided by safety and co-regulation—that allows transformation."

Clinical Takeaways: How to Use This Understanding in Practice

• When you slow down and attune to your client, you’re helping their Salience Network reclassify experience from threat to meaning.
• When you invite parts to speak, you’re engaging DMN + SN.
• When you use BLS while grounding, you’re co-activating CEN + SN.

By working relationally with the client, you’re helping the brain do what it was always meant to do: integrate.

Want More?

• Episode 2 of the series explores large-scale brain systems and how EMDR creates reconnection across networks.
• Upcoming episodes dive into AI-supported EMDR and EMDR 2.0 with Dr. Suzy Matthijssen.

Further Reading:

• Van den Hout, M., & Engelhard, I. (2012). How does EMDR work? Journal of Experimental Psychopathology.
• Nader, K., Schafe, G. E., & LeDoux, J. E. (2000). Fear memories require protein synthesis in the amygdala for reconsolidation after retrieval. Nature.
• Chamberlin, E. (2022). The Neurophysiology of EMDR and the Three Core Networks.
• Siegel, D. J. (2012). The Developing Mind: How Relationships and the Brain Interact to Shape Who We Are.

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