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I've had a poem stuck in my head, and it isn't one of biophilia and whimsy. It's about liminality, death, and interregna. Let me read for you one of my favorites and one of the all-time classics of English literature, William Butler Yeats's "The Second Coming".
While beautiful for its own sake, I'll also make a case for the defense of useless things, an argument for the horror genre as a serious art form, and a close reading of a poem that has become a kind of shared vocabulary for moments when the center will not hold.
I work through the imagery line by line, and connect it to everything from Frankenstein and Genesis's exile from Eden, to Tig Notaro's stage presence, to theriantropic madness from The Office's Michael Scott, to H.P. Lovecraft, to Slavoj Žižek on Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds, and more.
The trigger wasn't climate policy rollback or the war in Iran, as you might guess—it was actually thinking about artificial general intelligence, and that the falcon that can no longer hear the falconer.
Listen in to hear more about why "The Second Coming" reads as present-progressive horror rather than past-tense lament, why "troubles my sight" is a master class in economy of language, what monsters are actually for (the etymology connects to the Spanish mostrar—to show; which I minorly mispronounce in my freestyling—forgive me!), how Hereditary, The Babadook, and Jordan Peele's films use horror to talk about grief, depression, and race, and why this liminal moment between world orders feels so monstrous: not because the new world has arrived, but because the rough beast is only now slouching toward Bethlehem.
"The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born. Now is the time of monsters."
- Antonio Gramsci
Resources
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"The Second Coming" by William Butler Yeats
Paul Muldoon's reading of "The Second Coming"
In Praise of the Useless Life: A Monk's Memoir by Paul Quenon (referenced via Thomas Merton)
Slouching Towards Bethlehem by Joan Didion
Eschatology on Wikipedia
Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe
Paris 1919: Six Months That Changed the World by Margaret MacMillan
Paris 1919 (album) by John Cale
Pervert's Guide to Cinema — Slavoj Žižek on Hitchcock's The Birds
Segment on The Birds
Treaty of Versailles
Treaty of Trianon (I didn't mention this by name, but I've been thinking a lot about how it shaped/shapes Central Europe.)
Hereditary
The Babadook
Jordan Peele
HP Lovecraft
Id, ego, superego in Freudian psychoanalysis
Michael Scott's theriantrope fantasy/nightmare/prophecy from The Office
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
This is the kind of episode you put on and laugh along with us. This isn't the one where you'll get super quick tech takeaways within 30 minutes that you can drop at your next meeting. It's something else entirely.
Emily Swaddle, co-host of The Carbon Removal Show and one of the funniest people in carbon removal, joins Ross for a wide-ranging conversation about life, art, language, climate communications, and the absurdity of having a career in all of the above. A good chunk of the reason The Carbon Removal Show is so fun is because Emily is so fun, and this episode is basically an extended version of her (in)famous segment on TCRS, "Emily's Language Chat".
Emily Swaddle is a storyteller, communicator, and co-host of The Carbon Removal Show alongside Ben Weaver-Hincks and Tom Previte. She's been making the show since 2020, producing deeply researched, highly produced seasons that have become a go-to educational resource for the carbon removal community. Emily brings a unique perspective shaped by her background in the arts, her love of language, and her instinct that the climate conversation needs more humanity, more humor, and far less jargon.
Listen in to hear more about why Emily thinks silliness and vulnerability are underrated tools in climate communication, and why we even bother doing this climate work when it isn't the glamorous, high-paying energy executive type work.
You'll also hear about the Carbon Removal Show Coalition funding model, the tension between monetizing the natural world and actually caring about it, how British class dynamics show up in language and accent, why being a generalist in a specialist world is both a gift and a curse, and what happens when two podcast hosts stop talking about carbon removal policy and start talking about Disney villain queer coding, Mary Poppins, and whether "rabbit tube" should be a phrase.
Special thanks to the team at The Carbon Removal Show for loaning us the perfection that is the "Emily's Language Chat" reggae jingle.
"Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent."
- Ludwig Wittgenstein
This Episode's Sponsor
Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers
Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP
Resources
Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
The Carbon Removal Show podcast
"Wild Geese" by Mary Oliver
The Carbon Removal Show Coalition
Why Would You Say Something So Controversial Yet So Brave?
Unruly: The Ridiculous History of England's Kings and Queens by David Mitchell
What Makes Disney Villains so Gay?
Money can be exchanged for goods and services from The Simpsons
"The Darmine Doggy Door" from I Think You Should Leave
Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World by David Epstein
Sumptuary Law
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
Right now, the world's climate policy architecture is under siege. The US has withdrawn from the Paris Agreement and UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC). Right-wing populism is rising across Europe. And Europe itself is torn between defending against geopolitical threats and sustaining the climate policies it has spent years building.
What happens to carbon removal in this environment? And what happens to CORSIA—The Carbon Offsetting and Reduction Scheme for International Aviation from within the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO)—when a key moment of judgment arrives this June?
Lev Gantly is a partner at Philip Lee LLP, a law firm specializing in carbon markets and climate law, and one of Reversing Climate Change's sponsors. He advises a broad range of clients on emissions reduction and carbon dioxide removal projects, both through natural solutions like biochar and engineered technologies.
His deep understanding of international carbon markets, Article 6 of the Paris Agreement, and the evolving regulatory landscape makes him a critical voice on where climate policy is actually heading—and where it can actually survive political pressure.
Listen in to hear more about how CORSIA works and why it matters (or doesn't matter so much?) for carbon removal. You'll also learn about the specific moment this June when the EU must decide whether to keep the scheme or revert to its original plan to impose its own emissions trading system on international aviation.
Plus, where Lev is actually seeing durable policy support for carbon removal right now—and what it takes to make climate policy sticky enough to outlast a change in government.
This Episode's Sponsors
Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers
Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP
Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry
"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow
"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com
Resources
Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Lev Gantly
Philip Lee LLP
Linear reduction factor
European Union Emissions Trading System
ICAO
CORSIA
NDCs
"How Carbon Removal Loses: The End of "Pre-Compliance""
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
The foundational assumption of carbon removal has been the "pre-compliance" story—that the voluntary carbon market and early corporate offtakes are necessary but not sufficient, and that we're all waiting for compliance to automate demand. That story depends on Japan, Canada, the EU, and the UK carrying the torch while the US sits on the sidelines heckling.
In this monologue episode, I walk through why I no longer think that story holds. Right-wing populism is surging across every country the pre-compliance story depends on. Energy prices are climbing. Growth is stalling. And voters facing rising costs and security threats don't prioritize abstract, probabilistic, future-oriented problems no matter how catastrophic those problems actually are.
This isn't a doom episode. It's a planning episode. If you work on anything strategic in carbon removal or climate tech, you need a clear-eyed view of what the world is actually doing—and a plan for what your company looks like if the world doesn't regress to the mean.
"If you want to make an omelette, you've got to break a few eggs."
- Joseph Stalin
"Where's the omelette?"
- George Orwell
This Episode's Sponsors
Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers
Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP
Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry
"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow
"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com
Resources
Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
338: Carbon Security and the Geopolitics of Carbon Removal—w/ Sarah Godek
364: Lowering the Onion into Hell: Strategic Realism vs. Christian Pacifism
Sanae Takaichi
Pierre Poilievre
Mark Carney
Albertan secessionism
National Rally
Gilets Jaunes (yellow jackets)
Friedrich Merz
Willam F. Buckley Jr.
Alternative for Germany (Alternative für Deutschland) party
Nigel Farage
Reform UK
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
Is all of carbon removal really just about alkalinity? There's a case to be made for quite a lot of it. Weathering, ocean alkalinity enhancement, even parts of direct air capture—they all come back to manipulating pH and moving basic materials to where they can cancel out excess acid in the atmosphere and ocean.
Omar Sadoon is the Director of Strategic Partnerships at Planetary Technologies, an ocean alkalinity enhancement company working to remove carbon by adding carefully-sourced alkaline materials to the ocean.
Listen in to hear about the enormous logistical and scientific puzzle of finding the right alkalinity sources, getting them to the right ocean sites without breaking the LCA, and the lessons learned from Planetary's Cornwall and Tufts Cove projects. It's a show about community engagement, the surprising value of relationships in carbon removal sales, humor, and how Omar's background as a mental health nurse shaped his approach to partnership building.
This Episode's Sponsors
Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers
Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP
Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry
"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow
"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com
Resources
Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Planetary Technologies
"Planetary Technologies Cancels Its mCDR Project In Cornwall" in Carbon Herald
Guano and imperialism
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
Sometimes when people think they are coming at an issue from first principles, they're already pretty far downstream. What if rethinking an issue means really blowing past the current framework entirely and figuring out how to get the result in an entirely new way?
Emma Fuller is the Cofounder of Fractal Agriculture, a firm which takes minority equity stakes in farmland to help farmers switch to more regenerative practices.
Listen in to hear more about how to do business in an extremely creative way that blends customer insights and clever design to reduce friction, correct misaligned incentives, and the bypass the pathologies of the old way of doing things.
This Episode's Sponsors
Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers
Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP
Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry
"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow
"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com
Resources
Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Fractal Agriculture
Fractal Ag on LinkedIn
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
Carbon removal used to have technology developers who were also project developers. But oh, the times they are a-changin'...
What happens when grizzled CDR veterans pluck technology off the shelf and focus on developing projects that produce highly insurable, investable, and offtakeable carbon removal credits?
You get something like Residual Carbon.
Ted Christie-Miller is the cofounder of Residual and is on the show to discuss the lessons he learned from one year as the carbon partner of numerous projects he has under development, as well as his process of raising funds from family offices.
This Episode's Sponsors
Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers
Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP
Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry
"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow
"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com
Resources
Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Residual Carbon
Peep Show
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
Sometimes we talk carbon removal. Sometimes we talk poetry. Come let me read you one of my favorite Walt Whitman poems from "Song of Myself" in Leaves of Grass. We'll also explore why it's okay to love only some elements of a work of art, and why Whitman's kaleidoscopic view of grass is so remarkable.
A child said What is the grass? fetching it to me with full hands;
How could I answer the child? I do not know what it is any more than he.
I guess it must be the flag of my disposition, out of hopeful green stuff woven.
Or I guess it is the handkerchief of the Lord,
A scented gift and remembrancer designedly dropt,
Bearing the owner's name someway in the corners, that we may see and remark, and say Whose?
Or I guess the grass is itself a child, the produced babe of the vegetation.
Or I guess it is a uniform hieroglyphic,
And it means, Sprouting alike in broad zones and narrow zones,
Growing among black folks as among white,
Kanuck, Tuckahoe, Congressman, Cuff, I give them the same, I receive them the same.
And now it seems to me the beautiful uncut hair of graves.
Tenderly will I use you curling grass,
It may be you transpire from the breasts of young men,
It may be you are from old people, or from offspring taken,
It may be if I had known them I would have loved them, soon out of their mothers' laps,
And here you are the mothers' laps.
This grass is very dark to be from the white heads of old mothers,
Darker than the colorless beards of old men,
Dark to come from under the faint red roofs of mouths.
O I perceive after all so many uttering tongues,
And I perceive they do not come from the roofs of mouths for nothing.
I wish I could translate the hints about the dead young men and women,
And the hints about old men and mothers, and the offspring taken soon out of their laps.
What do you think has become of the young and old men?
And what do you think has become of the women and children?
They are alive and well somewhere,
The smallest sprout shows there is really no death,
And if ever there was it led forward life, and does not wait at the end to arrest it,
And ceas'd the moment life appear'd.
All goes onward and outward, nothing collapses,
And to die is different from what any one supposed, and luckier.
—From Leaves of Grass (David McKay, Publisher, 1891) by Walt Whitman.
Resources
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Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Song of Myself, 6 [A child said, What is the grass?] from Leaves of Grass
Walt Whitman
Leave of Grass
Freemasonry
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
Are we trying to get parts per million of greenhouse gases down as quickly as possible? Or are also trying to solve the nested problems of fertility, toxicity, and resilience as well as the systems that got us here in the first place?
In this episode, I contrast high carbon-efficiency biomass burial approaches (Biomass Carbon Removal and Storage/BiCRS) with biochar and other methods that sacrifice some carbon efficiency but generate wide-ranging cobenefits.
We explore commodification, fungibility, and the dream of a “tonne is a tonne” carbon market—alongside the discomfort some feel when complex ecological realities get flattened into a single tradeable metric. Is that clarity necessary for scale, or does it repeat the same abstractions that helped create the crisis?
Ultimately, this isn’t a fight between good and bad actors. It’s a productive friction between two worldviews: the PPM-obsessed technocrats and the polycrisis systems thinkers each have their own blindspots and their own superpowers. My hope is not to settle the debate, but to help you notice where your intuitions land—and why.
" we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we use when we created them."
- Albert Einstein
" The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house."
- Audre Lorde
" If a problem cannot be solved, enlarge it."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
This Episode's Sponsors
Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers
Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP
Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry
"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow
"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com
Resources
Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
"385: Polycrisis, Collapse, Rebirth: Is Regenerative Economics Inevitable?—w/ Eugene Kirpichov, Work on Climate"
"384: Graphyte's Strategy is a Masterpiece of Simplicity—w/ Barclay Rogers & Hannah Murnen"
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
Content Warning: this episode discusses suicide in literature, specifically Judas Iscariot from the Gospel and Javert from Les Misérables.
Why do this work? You could be doing so many different things. What calls you to it, and what (or who?!) is doing the calling?
In today's monologue show, host Ross Kenyon (also known as "me") reflects upon the nature of vocation, aesthetics, and what it means to labor at something as hard as carbon dioxide removal, climate tech, and so many things adjacent.
After a first attempt years ago at J. R. R. Tolkien's short story, "Leaf by Niggle," I listened to a podcast about it that had been sitting on his phone for years. After revisiting the short story, I was again reminded that art often finds you when the time is ripe.
"Leaf by Niggle" is a deceptively deep story, which is unsurprising given how strongly Tolkien disliked allegory, and how mythologically dense Lord of the Rings is. In fact, Lord of the Rings has so much symbolic power that many parts of it defy an easy mapping to theology or mythology.
This show dives into some of what I have learned now that I'm in the middle of my career about what kinds of work to do, how to accept unexpected work with grace, and why creativity might be so much weirder than we usually imagine.
This Episode's Sponsors
Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers
Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP
Rainbow: a developer-centric carbon removal registry
"Why carbon markets need field engineers, not just scientists" on Rainbow
"What scientists actually do in carbon removal" on rosskenyon.com
Resources
Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Vocative case
"Leaf by Niggle" by J. R. R. Tolkien
J. R. R. Tolkien
C. S. Lewis
"222: Leaf by Niggle by Tolkien" from the podcast Classical Things You Should Know
The Lord of the Rings
Judas Iscariot
Javert
Les Misérables
The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri
Resources
This episode's page on the web
Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack
Books from the show, at Bookshop
My other show, Climate Workers Anonymous
Correction: at 17:46 it's Frodo, not Sam, who asks Gandalf why Bilbo spared Gollum ("The Shadow of the Past," The Fellowship of the Ring). I've left it in. Memento mori.
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