We all want to make sure carbon removal works. But who is working to make it beautiful? And could creating beauty be one of the most important jobs in all of climate?

Leila Conners is a filmmaker who has been making environmental films for decades, including legendary ones like The 11th Hour with Leonardo DiCaprio. Her latest opus is Legion 44, which is a wonderful documentary highlighting so many alumni from this podcast and the CDR industry.

We also discuss why the antihero is such a popular archetype, how you should construct your media diet, and the role of the feature film when long-form and short-form content are polarizing media duration.

Legion 44 is now available for viewing on its own website and several other places, as well as on Tree+: Leila's new tv channel that you can download right to your smart tv. Please support her work spotlighting climate solutions and the delightful world of carbon removers.

"The world will be saved by beauty."

- Fyodor Dostoyevsky

-- Dorothy Day

--- Michael Scott (jk... unless?)

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: forestry project developer in the EU⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Listen to the RCC episode with Ryan Covington from Philip Lee LLP

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Leila Conners IMDb⁠

⁠Legion 44⁠

⁠Tree Media⁠

⁠Tree+ tv channel⁠

The 11th Hour

Koyaanisqatsi

Philip Glass's theme from ⁠Koyaanisqatsi⁠

Dorothy Day: The World Will Be Saved by Beauty: An Intimate Portrait of My Grandmother is also a lovely book by Kate Hennessy, and also probably what highlighted this beautiful sentiment for me.

Ari Aster

Hereditary

Graham Hancock

David Attenborough

Or "project finance", for that matter? Or are these just the current words we say at happy hours?

Today, we attempt to nail down some of these definitions so we might have a chance of achieving either of these concepts.

Ryan Covington is an attorney and partner in the Climate Projects team of Philip Lee (US) LLP, focused on the development and financing of engineered and nature-based carbon projects. Ryan shares his experience in structuring large financial deals in the carbon removal and climate tech space.

Can carbon removal ever achieve scale without sufficient commercial finesse? Likely not, but isn't it pretty to think so?

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: forestry project developer in the EU⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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J'Accuse...!

Ryan Covington's profile at Philip Lee LLP

Philip Lee LLP's Climate Projects page

The Sun Also Rises by Ernest Hemingway

Midnight in Paris scene with Ernest Hemingway

"359: Why Is the Pulp and Paper Industry So Great for CDR?—w/ Natalie Khtikian & Jon Rhone, Co-Founders of CO280"

Are you interested in sailing from Seattle to San Francisco on a sailing vessel older than World War 1?! Well, you can at the end of October 2025. Moreover, you'll be crewing alongside me.

I recently joined the team of Maritime Blue as an Executive in Residence, working with ocean tech startups on commercial strategy, storytelling, and go-to-market. They're putting on a fabulous ocean conference in Seattle October 20th-26th.

Right after that and until November 3rd is a passage they've chartered onboard the Statsraad Lehmkuhl that you can join as working crew.

Check out the links to Maritime Blue, One Ocean Week, and the One Ocean Expedition below!

Resources

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Maritime Blue

One Ocean Week

One Ocean Expedition (book your passage here!)

Statsraad Lehmkuhl on Wikipedia

S2E33: Sailing in the age of climate change—w/ John Kretschmer, author and sailor

I found the image on Wikipedia and it is is: By Ronnie Robertson - Statsraad IMG_5206, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=56179943

I take no responsibility for the success or failure of the trip. Participation is at your own discretion. I have personally accepted the risk for myself, but every person must choose for themselves.

Raising kids is hard enough. How do we do it now when existential dread is such a major part of youth experience? And how do we keep ourselves mentally healthy enough to be good at both our professional climate work and parenting?

Today's show is with Ariella Cook-Shonkoff, psychotherapist and author of the new book, Raising Anti-Doomers: How to Bring Up Resilient Kids Through Climate Change and Tumultuous Times.

She answers a bunch of questions I have about how much I should actually be staring into the abyss (but not whether it also stares back into me, weird I know...), agency, how to think about individual vs. collective safety, and how to bring children into a world where the grownups are either asking these enormous questions or pretending we don't need to.

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: forestry project developer in the EU⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

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Resources

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⁠Ariella Cook-Shonkoff's website⁠

Ariella's book, Raising Anti-Doomers: How to Bring Up Resilient Kids Through Climate Change and Tumultuous Times

Ariella's Psychology Today blog, "The Anti-Doomer Mindset

Cultivating Resilience in an Age of Uncertainty"

Climate Action Venn Diagrams from Dr. Ayana Elizabeth Johnson

Is that a noble man rejecting modernity and embracing tradition? Or is it a lunatic with a lance trying to disembowel a shepherd?

The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha by Miguel de Cervantes (Saavedra) is the much beloved literary classic—and perhaps the world's first true novel—but its reputation goes far beyond the book itself. The character has spawned his own adjective: "quixotic", which gets levied at anyone who dares to dream a bit too big.

But is this a word kind of like "epicurean", whose true meaning is subverted by modern use? I believe the answer is yes.

This episode goes out to all of the climate people who dare to dream of a better, kinder world, and why I don't think your critics know what being "quixotic" means.

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: forestry project developer in the EU⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

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Resources

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"(What's So Funny 'Bout) Peace, Love And Understanding" by Elvis Costello & The Attractions

Don Quixote

Jainism

It's hard for me to think about Don Quixote without also thinking about Sir Digby Chicken Caesar from That Mitchell and Webb Look since it is so clearly based upon Sancho and Don Quixote...

And also Ignatius J. Reilly from A Confederacy of Dunces

Man of La Mancha (musical)

Reject Modernity, Embrace Tradition meme

"Golden Helmet of Mambrino" from Man of La Mancha

Intertextuality

I didn't explicitly name cases of left-wing nostalgia, but you can look to the Paris Commune (and earlier revolutionary moments in France), primitive communism, republican Spain, the consensus capitalism nostalgia of Michael Moore, etc.

Henry VIII: King and Court by Alison Weir

In The Brothers Karamazov, the character Grushenka tells a story about an old peasant woman who never did a good deed in her entire life and went to Hell when she died. The woman's guardian angel petitioned God to let him search her life for a single good deed and if he found one, God would let her into Heaven. God agreed. It turns out she had once given a beggar an onion! Her single good deed! So God told the guardian angel to lower the onion into Hell to lift her out of the Lake of Fire...

What happens next depends upon the teller of the tale...

Today we venture into theology and the surprisingly radical nature of Christianity. Dorothy Day once quoted in The Long Loneliness, "no one gets up in the pulpit without promulgating a heresy." I do my best to untangle what is genuinely striking in reading the Gospels with fresh eyes, and contrast that against much of the market-oriented and security competition games that dominate our world.

So much of where that leads us sounds silly in the cold light of day. It's downright maladaptive to worldly success. But as Léon Bloy once said, "the only real sadness, the only real failure, the only great tragedy in life, is not to become a saint." So, what the hell are we supposed to make of a world that is so at odds with the gentleness commanded by so many of the world's spiritual traditions?

I'll share with you what I've learned about myself in trying to become simpler, and do so with as open a heart as I can muster.

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

— Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself,", Leaves of Grass

“It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.”
― Voltaire

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: forestry project developer in the EU⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

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Resources

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Realism (international relations)

Liberalism (international relations)

Prisoner's dilemma

338: Carbon Security & the Geopolitics of Carbon Removal—w/ Sarah Godek

Pax Americana 
Henry Kissinger

Robert D. Kaplan

Sermon on the Mount on Wikipedia

The Sermon on the Mount starting with Matthew 5, King James Version (for the idioms alone)

Anabaptism

Catholic Worker Movement

The Long Loneliness by Dorothy Day

The Kingdom of God Is Within You by Leo Tolstoy

"The Epistle to the Galatians" on Wikipedia

The Autobiography of Malcolm X by Malcolm X & Alex Haley

A Hidden Life (go watch this film right away!)

345: Why Too Many TV Antiheroes May Be Bad for the Climate

Default to Good (TvTropes)

It isn't thematically exactly right since I argue against many of its verses, but the chorus to Bob Dylan's "My Back Pages" is apt: "Oh, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now!" I prefer the version by The Byrds.

Everything is Tuberculosis: The History and Persistence of Our Deadliest Infection by John Green

The "no one should die from a preventable illness" meme

Casablanca

Romanticism

Les Misérables

Jean Valjean

Chaotic Good (TvTropes)

D&D Character Alignment (TvTropes)

Grushenka's onion story (it's in the middle of the chapter; feel free to search by "onion" to find it)

The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky

One of my biggest podcasting regrets is not having been able to interview the anthropologist Dr. James C. Scott before he died in 2024. We had corresponded by email, but he'll forever be one of the ones who got away... Rest in peace, James. Your scholarship is still making people think.

Today's show serves as an introduction to anthropology, and to some key Scottian concepts like "legibility" that Grant Faber and I apply to the carbon removal and carbon offsetting spaces.

Why do states prefer straight lines? Why do more organic shapes take place seemingly everywhere else? How can creating legibility be simultaneously great for transparency and order but perilous for justice and truth? When complexity is often so much more accurate, what is it within us that yearns to abandon it? What is in us that desires to make everything legible to our gaze even if it creates a wasteland and calls it peace?

If that's a soupy theoretical mess for you, you'll probably enjoy this episode. It's a doozy!

“A language is a dialect with an army and navy."

— Max Weinreich, attributed

"[The Romans] create a desert and call it peace."

— Tacitus

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: forestry project developer in the EU⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Descript's transcripting and podcast editing service⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Resources

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Grant Faber's Carbon-Based Commentary on Substack

James C. Scott's Wikipedia page

James C. Scott's posthumous In Praise of Floods: The Untamed River and the Life It Brings

Weapons of the Weak: Everyday Forms of Peasant Resistance by James C. Scott

The Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia by Jame C. Scott

"Not 'gay' as in 'happy' but 'queer' as in "f**k you'." is a line I've heard that is maybe informative here.

"On Truth and Lies in a Nonmoral Sense" by Friedrich Nietzsche

William of Ockham

Nominalism

Michel Foucault

Jacques Derrida

Postmodernism

Hauntologies of carbon removal—w/ Dr. Holly Jean Buck of the University of Buffalo: RCC S3 bonus

Capitalist Realism: Is There No Alternative? by Mark Fisher

Edmund Burke

Thomas Paine

Zhou Enlai

Michael Oakeshott, though I wonder if I have potentially overstated his position...

Precautionary principle

Br'er rabbit

Fordism

Sloanism

333: Coproduction & Additionality: How Do We Draw the Line for Carbon Removal?—w/ Grant Faber, Carbon-Based Consulting

"A primer on additionality and carbon removal" by Grant Faber

350: Robert Höglund Presents: The Many Perils of Being Catalytic in a Carbon Accounting World

David Graeber's Wikipedia page

If there are so many inhabitable planets in the universe, why haven't we made contact with other civilizations? One terrifying answer is that very few civilizations are able to create world-altering technology without also killing themselves off in the process.

This monologue episode introduces the concept of Great Filter Events through the work of Dr. David Grinspoon's outstanding book, Earth in Human Hands: Shaping Our Planet's Future.

Go read it, and listen to the shows I've done with David Grinspoon in the past! Links below.

“The real problem of humanity is the following: We have Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions and godlike technology. And it is terrifically dangerous, and it is now approaching a point of crisis overall.”

― E. O. Wilson

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: forestry project developer in the EU⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Descript's transcripting and podcast editing service⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Earth in Human Hands: Shaping Our Planet's Future by Dr. David Grinspoon

47: David Grinspoon, Astrobiologist

Geology Cage Match: The Sapiezoic vs. the Anthropocene

S2E15: Are you a wizard or a phophet?—w/ Charles C. Mann

Gaia hypothesis

Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence (SETI)

The Wizard and the Prophet: Two Remarkable Scientists and Their Dueling Visions to Shape Tomorrow's World by Charles C. Mann

Objectivism and Ayn Rand

Geologic time scale

Great Filter

Fermi paradox

Drake equation

Schadenfreude

Nuclear War: A Scenario by Annie Jacobsen

Fallout (franchise)

Abiogenesis

Great Oxidation Event

A $50M Series A?! In this economy?

Aircapture recently raised a big round at a time when big raises in climatetech are hard to come by. Their secret? Producing a valuable product better for their customers than what currently exists, and not being dependent upon policy or carbon credits.

They're doing modular direct air capture in places that otherwise need to buy merchant carbon dioxide from companies that sell gases. Shipping merchant CO2 to the Canary Islands isn't cheap. If modular DAC can provide cheaper and less carbon-intensive CO2, that's surely a win for the climate, the economy, and the learnings that allow us to scale along the way.

Matt brought his insights about how he built a successful business in carbontech. Folks would be wise to listen up!

N.B. The photos aren't of actual Aircapture facilities.

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: forestry project developer in the EU⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Descript's transcripting and podcast editing service⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Resources

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Subscribe to the Reversing Climate Change Substack

Aircapture's website

Aircapture's Series A announcement

A Mighty Wind scene about being retro vs. now-tro

357: Making Graphite from Carbon Removal for Lithium-Ion Batteries—w/ Makoto Eyre, Founder & CEO of Homeostasis

Capital efficiency

Writing fiction about climate change is notoriously difficult. Some authors have gone for massive ensemble casts to defeat the hyperobject. But what if one zoomed in to smaller, quieter, interpersonal stories?

Jon Raymond is a screenwriter and novelist whose work I very much enjoy. He is a frequent collaborator of Kelly Reichardt's, on films such as Old Joy, First Cow, Night Moves, and Showing Up. He also adapted James M. Cain's novel, Mildred Pierce, which became an HBO miniseries starring Kate Winslett.

His novels in particular deal with our place in a world with a changing climate. His previous work, Denial, concerns itself with questions of climate culpability for the individual person with great skill. His new novel, God and Sex, asks poignant questions about the nature of miracles and doubt from within a climate context. We discuss both books at length in this show.

They're both worth reading. Pick a copy of God and Sex while it is fresh off the presses!

This Episode's Sponsors

Philip Lee LLP: legal resources for carbon removal buyers and suppliers

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: forestry project developer in the EU

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Become a sponsor by emailing carbon.removal.strategies[at]gmail.com

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Descript's transcripting and podcast editing service⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use this affiliate link to use Riverside to record your podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up for the 9Zero climate coworking space with my referral code⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Resources

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Buy God and Sex

Denial⁠

Bonnie "Prince" Billy

Kim Stanley Robinson

Adolf Eichmann's trial

Eichmann in Jerusalem by Hannah Arendt

Manicheaism

Jean Valjean

Go (re)watch The Sixth Sense—it's great.

Ursula K Le Guin