Taylor Swift’s 11th original studio album, “The Tortured Poets Department,” was released last week into a world feverishly gripped by anticipation for a Taylor Swift album. Some were primed to adore her latest work, which Swifties broadly expected to be a thorough excavation of her relationship with her ex-partner of six years, actor Joe Alwyn; others were primed to mock and flame it. We, two rather casual Swift fans, were drawn in by the sheer intensity of the gathering discourse — not to mention our own anticipation of another album. And after almost a week of listening and relistening to the album, following the critical reactions to it, and stewing in the public debates raging about it, we decided we were ready to wade in.
But not without help! For this conversation, we’re joined by writer, critic, and Taylor Swift scholar B.D. McClay, (BDM ),who has written some of our favorite pieces of Swiftian criticism. You can find her work at outlets like The New Yorker, The Baffler, and Commonweal, as well as on her Substack, Notebook, which we highly recommend. Her Substack piece on “TTPD” is excellent, and helped us clarify our own reactions to the album:
There’s no doubt that “TTPD” is a huge amount of music to sift through — and that’s before accounting for the lore, the Easter eggs, the references, and how the entire work plays with and against her ubiquitous public presence and well established brand. At the moment this album came out, after months of being on top of the world, selling out massive shows for her international Eras tour and holding a nation rapt with her public romance with Super-Bowl-winning tight end Travis Kelce, Swift was overexposed and hovering at the precipice of an almost inevitable backlash. Then she announced “The Tortured Poets Department” by working it into a Grammy’s acceptance speech, a move widely perceived as crassly commercial. The name of the album and the promotional materials around it (including an odd library installation in Los Angeles featuring Spotify-branded, faux-aged papers with misspelled lyrics draped over typewriters) fed into a narrative that the album would be cringe, a long-form dark academia TikTok full of adolescent pretension. There was so much discourse about this album before it even dropped.
When it did drop, the reactions were far from uniformly laudatory. Many critics have noted that the album is overly long, unedited, a bit shapeless perhaps. The lyrics can veer into the goofy and embarrassing. The musical motifs seem to echo her recent past albums. There’s merit to a lot of the critiques. And yet… we found a great deal to love on the album as well. And the longer we sit with it, the more we relisten, the more we find irresistible hooks hidden away in the back halves of songs, glimpses of dry humor, and moments of profoundly lovely lyricism.
In this conversation, we tried to cover as much ground as we could in just a couple of hours, discussing our favorite songs, what we think about the angry and vulnerable Taylor who appears on this album, what stories and themes she’s exploring in it, whether it’s fair to read her newer works as emotionally stunted songs about boys and bullies, and why she keeps flooding us with so much new music.
Further Reading + Listening:
“Taylor Swift Still Isn’t Your Friend,” B.D. McClay’s 2023 Slate essay about the controversy surrounding Taylor’s relationship with Matty Healy
“Taylor Swift Derangement Syndrome with B.D. McClay,” Know Your Enemy pod
"Taylor Swift's 'Tortured Poets' is written in blood," Ann Powers, NPR
“Come for the Torture, Stay for the Poetry: This Might Be Taylor Swift’s Most Personal Album Yet,” Rob Sheffield, Rolling Stone
"Taylor Swift's Tortured Poetry," Amanda Petrusich, The New Yorker
"The Tortured Poets Department / Anthology" review, Olivia Horne, Pitchfork
“The Performative Poets Department,” Craig Jenkins, Vulture
“The Real Reason Taylor Swift Dresses Like That,” Cathy Horyn, NYMag
“Is ‘The Tortured Poets Department’ Taylor Swift’s Most Controversial Album Ever?,” Every Single Album pod, The Ringer
“Taylor Swift seems sick of being everyone’s best friend,” Constance Grady, Vox
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