Robert Grillo, founder of Free From Harm, joins Glen to discuss the systemic challenges of transforming the food system and why targeting top decision-makers — not just consumers — is essential for lasting change. Robert shares how his organization has evolved into a powerful force for grassroots activism, taking on industry leaders, policymakers, and media to expose the harms of animal agriculture.

In this episode, Robert breaks down the outsized role of government subsidies in propping up animal agriculture and why shifting those subsidies to plant-based foods is one of the most powerful levers for change. He discusses strategies for influencing legislators, confronting health officials, and holding industry accountable through public pressure and media exposure. Robert also offers a grounded critique of lab meat and other technological "solutions," arguing that today's grassroots activism — not tomorrow's hype — is what will move the needle. A timely and eye-opening conversation about democracy, food policy, and the future of the plant-based movement.

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CHAPTERS

00:00 - Introduction and book promotion

00:22 - Guest introduction: Robert Grillo and his work

01:33 - The evolution of Free From Harm and systemic activism

04:50 - Activities of Free From Harm and grassroots strategies

06:45 - The importance of confronting industry leaders publicly

10:08 - Engaging with policymakers and media for impact

12:24 - The role of industry-spread diseases like screwworm

15:07 - Progress in the movement and shifting subsidies

17:23 - Legislative efforts and the influence of money in politics

20:12 - Confronting health officials and industry representatives

23:14 - The Save Our Bacon Act and industry lobbying

26:42 - California law and federal industry opposition

29:36 - The challenge of political and industry influence

33:12 - The role of environmental groups and the vegan movement

35:11 - Co-optation and greenwashing in the industry

37:34 - Lab meat and technological solutions: hype vs reality

44:16 - The importance of focusing on current activism over hype

45:43 - The power of industry advertising and influence

46:24 - Where to find and support Robert Grillo

46:56 - Closing remarks and appreciation