Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. We now have transcripts available too (Click on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post to access them).

In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Jeffrey Tumlin, a 30-year transportation leader and former executive director of the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency (SFMTA). Jeffrey shares how robotaxis first came onto his radar, what the SFMTA is responsible for, and why San Francisco has long been a proving ground for new transportation technologies.

The conversation centers on autonomous vehicles in San Francisco, including the city’s turning point with AV deployment, how traffic incidents are tracked, and the ongoing challenges around data transparency. Jeffrey explains what AV companies could do better when working with cities, the cultural friction between public agencies and private operators, and practical ways to make early AV rollouts less chaotic.

We also explore congestion, safety, and the broader impacts of autonomy — drawing lessons from rideshare, discussing how AVs could affect traffic, and reflecting on the collapse of Cruise. Jeffrey closes with his perspective on whether cities should embrace AVs, how edge cases requiring human intervention might be addressed, and the most meaningful upsides autonomous vehicles can bring if deployed thoughtfully.

Editor’s Note: Jeffrey’s video unfortunately did not record (I blame Zoom) so that’s why there’s no video of him speaking in this episode. Audio is still great though!

Chapters

(00:00) Introduction to Jeffrey Tumlin

(01:08) When did Robotaxis first come to your radar while at the SFMTA?

(02:08) What is the SFMTA responsible for?

(02:45) San Francisco’s history with transportation technology

(03:50) San Francisco’s turning point with AV technology

(05:19) How San Francisco tracks traffic incidents, and data transparency problems

(08:06) What AV companies could do better on data transparency

(10:07) The cultural clash between cities and AV companies

(11:49) What solutions exist to make these early days of AV introduction smoother for AV companies and cities?

(14:48) The main adverse effects of AV proliferation

(17:36) How did rideshare affect traffic congestion, and lessons learnt

(20:58) How AVs would affect congestion, and solutions that exist

(22:30) Jeffrey’s take on the safety argument for AVs

(27:05) Should cities embrace AVs, and how?

(30:07) The demise of Cruise and lessons learnt

(37:29) How do we solve AV edge cases that require human intervention

(40:26) The main upsides of AV introduction

(44:20) Conclusion and final thoughts

Notes/Links:

* You can find Jeffrey on Linkedin (link).

* You can also find Jeffrey on BlueSky (link).

* Jeffrey’s interview with David Zipper on Bloomberg about robotaxis in San Francisco, mentioned at the 13:49 timestamp (link, no paywall).

* RSG article on how Uber and Lyft affect congestion, mentioned at the 18:10 timestamp (link).

* New York Times op-ed by Dr. Jonathan Slotkin about robotaxi safety, mentioned at the 22:31 timestamp (link, no paywall).

-Harry

Thanks for being a subscriber to The Driverless Digest! If you enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with someone who might like it too. And if this email was forwarded to you, why not subscribe and stick around :)

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thedriverlessdigest.com