The most consequential church-state case of this Supreme Court term involves whether the government could – or even must – fund religious charter schools. Amanda and Holly examine key moments in the oral arguments from Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond, playing clips from the courtroom and looking at how the justices may apply recent precedent to shape future law. As BJC noted in the brief we filed, if the government funds religious charter schools, it will drag our government deeper into questions it is unfit to answer on matters of doctrine and church composition. That’s not government neutrality toward religion – that’s religious preference repackaged as educational choice.

 

SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 01:53): Developments since our previous show

Amanda and Holly talked about the Catholic Charities/Wisconsin case in episode 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times

We released our episode with Melissa Rogers to coincide with the first 100 days of the Trump administration. It is episode 13 of season 6: Active citizenship: A conversation with Melissa Rogers about promoting religious freedom and the common good

President Donald Trump issued a proclamation on the National Day of Prayer and he signed an executive order on the same day establishing the Religious Liberty Commission. 

The American Bar Association has a website page dedicated to National Law Day You can click this link to read President Donald Trump’s proclamation on “Loyalty Day and Law Day.”

The Respecting Religion podcast won a 2025 “Best in Class” award from the Religion Communicators Council’s DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards for our episode titled: “But … is it Christian nationalism?” from season 5.

 

Segment 2 (starting at 09:51): Oral arguments in Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond

Holly mentioned this article from The Washington Post by Justin Jouvenal and Laura Meckler that provides an overview of the case: How religious public schools went from a long shot to the Supreme Court

Holly and Amanda discussed these cases as they worked their way through the courts in episode 16 of season 5: The trouble with *religious* charter schools

BJC filed an amicus brief in Oklahoma v. Drummond, along with other Christian organizations as well as Jewish, Muslim and interfaith groups. Click here to read our brief.

We played four clips in this segment from the oral arguments in Oklahoma v. Drummond. You can visit the Supreme Court’s website for a transcript of the arguments and an audio recording of the arguments. 

• Clip #1: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson & Solicitor General John Sauer
• Clip #2: Chief Justice John Roberts 
• Clip #3: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson 
• Clip #4: Justice Elena Kagan & Michael McGinley

Amanda and Holly mentioned three decisions authored by Chief Justice John Roberts that developed a new way of understanding the Free Exercise Clause. They are: 

• Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (2017)
• Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue (2020)
• Carson v. Makin (2022)

Holly’s 2017 column on the Trinity Lutheran decision is titled “Decidedly narrow, deeply troubling.”

 

Segment 3 (starting 37:12): What do we expect?

We played one clip from the oral argument in this segment: The opening statement of Greg Garre, who argued the case for the attorney general of Oklahoma.

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