On our season 6 finale, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman explore some of the consequential decisions from the final days of the Supreme Court term, including Mahmoud v. Taylor – which involves parents who want to opt their children out of curriculum they find in conflict with their religious beliefs – and U.S. v. Skrmetti, which focuses on access to medical care for transgender youth. They discuss the real world implications of these and other recent rulings. Amanda and Holly also celebrate a decision from the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals striking down Louisiana’s law requiring the posting of the Ten Commandments in every public school classroom and share why this case might find its way up to the Supreme Court before too long.  

SHOW NOTES

Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Recent activities and news

For the latest on the budget reconciliation bill and ways to make your voice known, visit BJConline.org/budgetbill2025

Segment 2 (starting at 07:01): A federal court decision and a Supreme Court case with far-reaching implications

Roake v. Brumley is the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals case that struck down the Louisiana law mandating the posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms. Read more about the decision and BJC’s brief on our website: Federal appeals court finds Louisiana’s Ten Commandments law unconstitutional as Texas enacts a similar measure

Trump v. CASA is the case often called the “birthright citizenship” case that is about national injunctions. Amanda and Holly recommended listening to the oral arguments and reading the decision and the dissent. All are available on the Supreme Court’s website. 

Segment 3 (starting at 19:07): The decision in Mahmoud v. Taylor and its potential impact

Amanda and Holly discussed oral arguments in Mahmoud v. Taylor in episode 15 of season 6. You can read the decision and the dissent on the Supreme Court’s website.

Holly mentioned this piece on the case from Religion News Service: ‘We were called book burners’: Families react to SCOTUS LGBTQ+ books decision

Segment 4 (starting 46:13): U.S. v. Skrmetti and what’s ahead for the Court

Amanda and Holly discussed U.S. v. Skrmetti in episode 6 of season 6. You can read the decision and the dissent on the Supreme Court’s website.

For more on the case involving the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act that the Supreme Court will hear this fall, read this piece by Adam Liptak for The New York Times: Supreme Court to Hear Rastafarian Prisoner’s Suit Over Shaved Dreadlocks

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

What’s the difference between religious privilege and religious freedom? How does Christian nationalism spread? Why do so many ideas that start in Texas expand to other parts of the country? On this podcast, we bring you a special panel discussion on Christian nationalism in the Texas public sphere, recorded live on April 8. It features BJC Executive Director (and Respecting Religion co-host) Amanda Tyler, scholar David Brockman, professor Mark Chancey, and journalist Robert Downen. Moderated by Jack Jenkins, it was part of an all-day event focused on telling the story of religion in Texas through journalism, hosted by the Texas Tribune in partnership with Religion News Service, the Institute for Diversity and Civic Life, and Southern Methodist University’s Religious Studies department.

SHOW NOTES

Segment 1 (starting at 00:33): Introducing today’s show and the panelists

Learn more about the Texas Tribune’s April 8 event titled “Telling the story of religion in Texas through journalism” on the website of the Texas Tribune. The website page dedicated to the event includes YouTube videos of each speaker and panel presentation. 

The day-long event was held in partnership with the Texas Tribune, Religion News Service, the Institute for Diversity and Civic Life, and Southern Methodist University’s Religious Studies department.

Segment 2 (starting at 02:51): Panel presentation

You can watch a video of this presentation on YouTube, including a Q&A following the conversation.

The panelists are:

• Amanda Tyler, executive director of BJC (Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty), lead organizer of Christians Against Christian Nationalism, and co-host of this podcast
• Dr. David Brockman, a non-resident scholar in religion and public policy at Rice University’s Baker Institute who also serves as an adjunct professor at Texas Christian University
• Dr. Mark Chancey, professor of religious studies at SMU
• Robert Downen, senior writer at “Texas Monthly” 

The moderator is Jack Jenkins, national reporter at Religion News Service.

NOTE: After this panel was recorded, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott did sign legislation requiring every Texas public school classroom to display the Ten Commandments. Read more in this piece by Sameea Kamal for the Texas Tribune: Texas will require public school classrooms to display Ten Commandments under bill signed by governor

Amanda and Holly talked about the Texas Bible curriculum in episode 2 of this season: Oklahoma and Texas try to force Bible teaching in public schools

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

With decisions from the Supreme Court, a new travel ban, and a federally militarized presence in Los Angeles, there are many activities in our world that deserve attention. Amanda and Holly discuss several current events in this episode, including the revival of one of the ugliest policies of the first Trump administration. Plus, they review the unanimous decision in a Supreme Court case about religious exemptions to employment law and discuss the Court’s decision not to hear a case involving the protection of sacred land. 

SHOW NOTES

Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Recent and still-developing news

Holly and Amanda discussed changes in policy about sensitive locations in S6, Episode 10.

We discussed the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia in a special episode released April 21 with Melissa Rogers. 

We discussed the harmful school voucher provision in the “big beautiful bill” during their live episode, released May 27. Hear the episode at this link or in your podcast feed, or watch it on YouTube.

Join BJC for a webinar on the problems with the budget reconciliation bill on Monday, June 16, at 2:30 p.m. Click here to register for the event, which is hosted by BJC, NETWORK Lobby for Catholic Social Justice, and Bread for the World.

Read more about the fallout from Rep. Mary Miller referring to a Sikh prayer leader as a “Muslim” and erroneously claiming our country was founded as a “Christian nation” in this article by Andrew Solender for Axios: Rep. Mary Miller faces bipartisan fury over “ignorant” Sikh comment

In memory of Dr. Walter Brueggemann, listen to his 2019 conversation with Amanda on our podcast series exploring the dangers of Christian nationalism: Theological view of Christian nationalism with Walter Brueggemann

Segment 2 (starting at 13:17): The new travel ban

After President Trump issued his new travel ban on June 4, Amanda released a statement you can read on BJC’s website: BJC condemns new travel ban as ‘state-sanctioned discrimination’

Visit BJC’s website to read more about the case of Trump v. Hawaii and the history of the travel ban.

Support the NO BAN Act: Click here to use BJC’s form to contact your members of Congress about the legislation.

Segment 3 (starting 20:09): The decision in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission

Supreme Court decisions we are waiting for include:

• Mahmoud v. Taylor (Hear a discussion of oral arguments in S6, Ep. 15)
• U.S. v. Skrmetti (Hear a discussion of oral arguments in S6, Ep. 06)

The case Apache Stronghold v. U.S. involves the sacred land of Chí’chil Biłdagoteel — loosely translated in English as “Oak Flat.” Read more about the denial of cert on BJC’s website: U.S. Supreme Court declines Oak Flat petition, allows for federal transfer of sacred land to mining company. Amanda and Holly talked about this issue on a podcast back in 2022: S3, Ep. 17: Religious freedom and our Indigenous neighbors: Save Oak Flat.

Amanda and Holly talked about the oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin in Ep. 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

A case with a thin record is raising plenty of questions at the Supreme Court. In this episode, Amanda and Holly examine the case of Mahmoud v. Taylor, which involves parents who want to opt their children out of public school curriculum they say conflicts with their religious beliefs. But, what’s the difference between expected exposure and unconstitutional coercion? Does age matter? What happens when opt-out options become too burdensome and overwhelming to accommodate? Amanda and Holly examine the issues in this case as well as the challenges for the school district and for the parents. They also share what the oral arguments revealed about the justices’ interest in the books and discussions outside of the courtroom.  

SHOW NOTES

Segment 1 (starting at 01:50): Remembering Justice David Souter

Amanda and Holly released a live mini-episode on Tuesday, May 27, to review the Supreme Court decision in the religious charter school case, the voucher proposal in the budget reconciliation bill, and a court decision halting the dismantling of the Department of Education. Hear the episode at this link or in your podcast feed, or watch it on YouTube.

Amanda and Holly mention the other two church-state cases this term addressed in previous episodes:

• Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin in Ep. 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times
• Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond in Ep. 14: The blockbuster SCOTUS case over religious charter schools

BJC Executive Director Emeritus J. Brent Walker wrote a reflection piece on Justice David Souter when the justice retired in 2009: Walker reflects on Souter’s Supreme Court tenure

Amy Howe wrote a piece on Justice Souter for SCOTUSblog: David Souter, retired Supreme Court justice, dies at 85

Segment 2 (starting at 06:58): The facts (that we know) in the case and what’s at stake

BJC has a post on our website describing Mahmoud v. Taylor: In oral argument, U.S. Supreme Court wrestles with the limits of public school parents’ opt-out rights

The U.S. Supreme Court has a transcript of oral arguments and the audio recording of oral arguments in Mahmoud v. Taylor available on its website.

Segment 3 (starting 25:54): The two big substantive points from the oral argument

We played two clips from the oral argument in this segment:

• Justice Elena Kagan and Eric Baxter, who argued on behalf of the group of parents (the petitioners) 
• Justice Samuel Alito and Eric Baxter

Amanda and Holly talked about the Texas Bible curriculum in episode 2 of this season: Oklahoma and Texas try to force Bible teaching in public schools

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

In a conversation broadcast live on May 27, Amanda and Holly provide updates on a day of big news in the religious liberty world. They first look at the surprising 4-4 deadlock from the U.S. Supreme Court in the Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond case, which preserves a religious liberty principle by stopping the creation of the nation’s first religious charter school. They also discuss the troubling school voucher proposal that was slipped into the budget reconciliation bill that the U.S. House of Representatives narrowly passed on May 22, offering tips on how you can help stop it as it goes to the Senate. Plus, they give an update on last week’s court order stopping President Trump’s dismantling of the Department of Education and share why that’s good news for public education and religious freedom.

Show notes:

You can watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/live/i8S3xcBTs14?feature=shared

Holly read the entire two sentence decision in the Drummond case, which is available on the Supreme Court’s website. You can also read Holly’s statement released the day of the Oklahoma v. Drummond decision on BJC’s website. 

The discussion of the budget reconciliation bill starts at 8:23. BJC has a website page with the latest on the bill and the actions you can take to stop it in the Senate. Visit BJConline.org/budgetbill2025 for more, including tips on finding a town hall to attend so you can connect with your lawmaker in person.

Click here to directly contact your U.S. Senators about the voucher provision, using our simple form.

Want to send us a video or an audio recording about why this budget bill would harm your community? Click here!

On May 22 – the same day the House passed the budget bill and the Supreme Court released its Drummond decision – U.S. District Judge Myong Joun granted a preliminary injunction stopping the Trump administration from dismantling the Department of Education. The conversation about this begins at 15:04.

Want to make sure you don’t miss future live episodes of the podcast? Subscribe to our email list to be notified of future shows, and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Bluesky, X, or LinkedIn.

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

The most consequential church-state case of this Supreme Court term involves whether the government could – or even must – fund religious charter schools. Amanda and Holly examine key moments in the oral arguments from Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond, playing clips from the courtroom and looking at how the justices may apply recent precedent to shape future law. As BJC noted in the brief we filed, if the government funds religious charter schools, it will drag our government deeper into questions it is unfit to answer on matters of doctrine and church composition. That’s not government neutrality toward religion – that’s religious preference repackaged as educational choice.

SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 01:53): Developments since our previous show

Amanda and Holly talked about the Catholic Charities/Wisconsin case in episode 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times

We released our episode with Melissa Rogers to coincide with the first 100 days of the Trump administration. It is episode 13 of season 6: Active citizenship: A conversation with Melissa Rogers about promoting religious freedom and the common good

President Donald Trump issued a proclamation on the National Day of Prayer and he signed an executive order on the same day establishing the Religious Liberty Commission. 

The American Bar Association has a website page dedicated to National Law Day You can click this link to read President Donald Trump’s proclamation on “Loyalty Day and Law Day.”

The Respecting Religion podcast won a 2025 “Best in Class” award from the Religion Communicators Council’s DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards for our episode titled: “But … is it Christian nationalism?” from season 5.

Segment 2 (starting at 09:51): Oral arguments in Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond

Holly mentioned this article from The Washington Post by Justin Jouvenal and Laura Meckler that provides an overview of the case: How religious public schools went from a long shot to the Supreme Court

Holly and Amanda discussed these cases as they worked their way through the courts in episode 16 of season 5: The trouble with *religious* charter schools

BJC filed an amicus brief in Oklahoma v. Drummond, along with other Christian organizations as well as Jewish, Muslim and interfaith groups. Click here to read our brief.

We played four clips in this segment from the oral arguments in Oklahoma v. Drummond. You can visit the Supreme Court’s website for a transcript of the arguments and an audio recording of the arguments. 

• Clip #1: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson & Solicitor General John Sauer
• Clip #2: Chief Justice John Roberts 
• Clip #3: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson 
• Clip #4: Justice Elena Kagan & Michael McGinley

Amanda and Holly mentioned three decisions authored by Chief Justice John Roberts that developed a new way of understanding the Free Exercise Clause. They are: 

• Trinity Lutheran v. Comer (2017)
• Espinoza v. Montana Dept. of Revenue (2020)
• Carson v. Makin (2022)

Holly’s 2017 column on the Trinity Lutheran decision is titled “Decidedly narrow, deeply troubling.”

Segment 3 (starting 37:12): What do we expect?

We played one clip from the oral argument in this segment: The opening statement of Greg Garre, who argued the case for the attorney general of Oklahoma.

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

Melissa Rogers joins the podcast for a conversation about how each of us can take steps to promote religious freedom and the common good in the United States today. After leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations, she shares her inside perspective on government, where we are right now, and how people can truly make an impact. Our religious freedom protects everyone’s right to bring their faith to the public square, and you won’t want to miss this conversation about opportunities we have as Americans to engage government at all levels and express ourselves in the face of injustice. 

SHOW NOTES

Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The genius of our constitutional protections for religious freedom

Melissa Rogers served as the executive director of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations. You can click here to read her extensive biography. She is the author of Faith in American Public Life, published in 2019.

She has been on two earlier BJC podcasts:

• Respecting Religion, S2, Ep. 06: What’s next? The Biden administration and religious liberty (2020)
• The Dangers of Christian Nationalism series, episode 9: Religious freedom, church-state law and Christian nationalism (2019), alongside Rabbi David Saperstein. You also can watch a video of that podcast. 

NOTE: On April 21, we released a special podcast episode recorded at the same time as this conversation, focusing on the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia and the rule of law. Click here to hear that portion of the conversation. 

Segment 2 (starting at 10:09): Our current moment as a country

Here are links with more information from this portion of the conversation: 

Melissa discussed the work of the federal government to protect places of worship. Protecting Houses of Worship is a helpful resource on this topic from the CISA (the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency of the Department of Homeland Security). 

She also mentioned the Biden-Harris administration’s work on countering hate. One example is the United We Stand Summit in 2022: Taking Action to Prevent and Address Hate-Fueled Violence and Foster Unity. Click here to read more about the summit, or click here to watch the full summit proceedings.

In addition, the Biden-Harris administration released the U.S. National Strategy to Counter Antisemitism in 2023, and the U.S. National Strategy to Counter Islamophobia and Anti-Arab Hate in 2024.

Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign at ChristiansAgainstChristianNationalism.org.

Segment 3 (starting 16:52): Practical ways to take action 

Here are a few resources and organizations to connect with if you are interested in responding to governmental actions, including by sharing information about their impact on you or your community: 

DOGE cuts:

• Have you been impacted by DOGE cuts? Share your story with the Center for American Progress
• Article published by The Century Foundation: We Led Federal Agencies. Here Are 10 Ways That President Trump and Elon Musk’s Attacks on Federal Workers Will Hurt You by Mark Zuckerman, Julie Su, Lauren McFerran, Gayle Goldin, Rachel West, Chiquita Brooks-LaSure, Ruth Friedman, Carole Johnson, Viviann Anguiano, Kayla Patrick and Loredana Valtierra

Information on various lawsuits challenging governmental actions:

Melissa mentioned the lawsuit challenging the recission of the “sensitive locations” guidance as a violation of religious freedom protections under the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). Read more about the lawsuit on our website, which is being led by Democracy Forward. Another lawsuit on sensitive locations is also being pursued by a group led by the Institute for Congressional Advocacy and Protection. 

You can find more information about this and other pending lawsuits here:

• Updates from Democracy Forward 
• Just Security’s litigation tracker 
• Legal actions of CREW (Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington)

Resource on how to protect democracy:

• Protecting Democracy’s Faithful Fight Toolkit

Interested in calling your congressional representatives about issues you care about? Here’s how you can find their contact information: 

• Click here to find your representative in the U.S. House
• Click here to find your U.S. Senators

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

On this special bonus episode of the Respecting Religion podcast, we are featuring a conversation that could not wait until our normal release date. In this still-developing story, Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia was mistakenly removed by the U.S. government from Maryland to El Salvador. His case and series of injustices are not just things that move all of us as people of faith, but there are also profound ramifications of this situation on due process, the rule of law and freedom for everyone living in our country.

Our next full episode of Respecting Religion will feature a conversation with Melissa Rogers, a lawyer who served in two different presidential administrations leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships. While recording that episode, the conversation turned to this ongoing injustice, and we decided that part of our conversation couldn’t wait until our normal release date.

SHOW NOTES

Articles with additional information: 

Timeline: Wrongful deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to El Salvador (ABC News)

Video: Jennifer Vasquez making her statement supporting her husband (ABC News)

Article: Democrats Land in El Salvador, Seeking Release of Maryland Resident (New York Times)

Interested in calling your congressional representatives about this issue? Here’s how you can find their contact information: 

Click here to find your representative in the U.S. House

Click here to find your U.S. Senators

There has been no shortage of news from all three branches of government in Washington, D.C., but one thing hasn’t changed: the U.S. Supreme Court continues to be interested in religious liberty cases. On today’s show, Amanda and Holly review the recent oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin, which focuses on a religious exemption in the state’s unemployment compensation laws. There are big questions being asked in this case, such as where one draws the lines, how can “religion” be defined, and what is meant – exactly – by the term “proselytization.” Plus, Holly and Amanda take a moment to step back and talk about the current attacks we are seeing on the rule of law in our country. 

SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): Current state of the courts and various attacks on the rule of law

There are three church-state cases that the Supreme Court will hear this term:

• Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (Oral arguments were March 31)
• Mahmoud v. Taylor (oral arguments will be April 22)
• Oklahoma Virtual Charter School Board v. Drummond (oral arguments will be April 30)

Segment 2 (starting at 08:00): Oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin

Visit the website of the U.S. Supreme Court for a transcript and an audio recording of the oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin. 

We played a clip from the oral arguments between Justice Neil Gorsuch and Colin Roth, who argued the case as the assistant attorney general for the state of Wisconsin. You can read the exchange beginning on page 81 of the oral argument transcript.

Holly and Amanda mentioned the 2021 case of Fulton v. Philadelphia. Read more about that case on BJC’s website. 

Read Amy Howe’s coverage of the Catholic Charities case for SCOTUSblog: Supreme Court likely to embrace expanded tax exemption for religious charities

Read Adam Liptak’s coverage for the New York Times: Supreme Court Leans Toward Catholic Charity in Tax Case

Segment 3 (starting 26:48): Decision thoughts and what’s ahead

Amanda mentioned the upcoming Oklahoma v. Drummond case. BJC filed a brief in that case, and you can read it on our website.

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.

African Americans’ knowledge traditions, religious practices, political cultures and ideas are rich resources that facilitate new concepts of religious freedom. On this episode of Respecting Religion, Dr. Sabrina E. Dent and Dr. Corey D. B. Walker join Amanda and Holly to discuss the book they co-edited, African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities. It’s  a collection of essays that provide novel interpretations of religious freedom informed by African American experiences, which are essential for a full public discourse about the topic. First released in the days before the January 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, the second edition includes a new preface addressing the need for religious freedom to undergo a deep interrogation in our perilous times.

SHOW NOTES

Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Introducing the book and the conversations it inspires

Dr. Sabrina E. Dent is the director of the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation. Learn more about her on BJC’s website.

Dr. Corey D. B. Walker is the dean of the Wake Forest University School of Divinity, Wake Forest Professor of the Humanities, and director of the Program in African American Studies. Learn more about him on the Wake Forest University School of Divinity website.

The second edition of African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities is now available, free to all. 

Dr. Dent mentioned the religious freedom course with students from religious graduate schools at historically Black colleges and universities that began many of these conversations. Read about that in this 2019 article by Adelle Banks for Religion News Service: Black seminarians take first-time religious freedom course

Learn more and read the text of David Walker’s Appeal to the Coloured Citizens of the World on the website of the National Constitution Center.

The Columbia Law School Law, Rights & Religion Project released the Black Religious Liberty Curriculum in 2024. You can see the 12-part video series and access the curriculum on their website. 

Segment 2 (starting at 18:51): Pushback and barriers to expanding the narrative

You can access a PDF or read a flip-through edition of the book African Americans and Religious Freedom. Visit our website for more details.

Segment 3 (starting 31:01): The launch event on February 28

You can watch a recording of the Feb. 28 event celebrating the re-release of the book on YouTube.

The Rev. William Lamar IV talked with NPR about the ruling that gave his church the copyright of the Proud Boys. You can listen to his conversation here.

Learn more about the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation on our website at BJConline.org/center

Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations with a gift to BJC.