Bob sits down with his longtime friend Jen Hatmaker for a conversation about friendship, suffering, and what it means to be a truly safe person. Together, they explore how showing up matters more than fixing, why presence heals more than advice, and how walking alongside one another can bring strength in the hardest seasons.

Jen's newest book, AWAKE: A Memoir, released September 2025, and chronicles her raw, real-time journey through the shocking end of her 26-year marriage and surprising reinvention. Grab a copy wherever books are sold.

Connect with Bob: @bobgoff

Connect with Jen: @jenhatmaker

Join Bob at an upcoming workshop: bobgoff.com/events