What happens when the hardest season of your life becomes the foundation for your strongest one?

In this deeply honest and reflective conversation, Abbe from Koko Cosmetica returns to the podcast two years after her first appearance, and she is not the same woman. Since we last spoke, she’s navigated postpartum depression, grown her salon to five years strong, welcomed a third baby, survived the FIFO juggle, and stepped into a calmer, more grounded version of herself as both a mother and business owner.

We talk honestly about postpartum mental health, delegation in business, the pressure to keep expanding, sustainable systems, and the uncomfortable truth that growth often requires letting go.

If you are a mother in business, a salon owner feeling stretched, or a woman quietly navigating your own hard season, this one will feel like a hand on your back.

What we cover:

1. The reality of postpartum depression as a business owner
2. Why discomfort is often the birthplace of growth
3. Letting go of a business idea that no longer fits
4. Delegation as both leadership and self protection
5. Creating sustainable systems in motherhood and business
6. The power of separating work and home energy

This episode is a reminder that you can survive the mud, grow through it, and come out clearer, calmer, and stronger on the other side.

Timestamps:

00:00 Episode Summary

04:03 Meet Abbe Again: Five Years in Business, FIFO Life & New Baby

05:44 Putting Projects Down: Pausing the Clothing Brand to Focus

07:43 Choosing Baby #3 After Postpartum Depression Fears

11:31 A Healing Postpartum

13:53 Spotting the Signs: Anger, Overwhelm & Business Pressure

20:37 Sustainable Business Habits: Delegation, Stock & Systems

29:12 Motherhood + Business Balance: Separation, Routines & Small Wins

33:04 Ditching Social Media - Replacing Scroll Time with Podcasts

34:13 The 1% Reminders That Change Your Day

35:18 Family Systems That Save Your Sanity

36:49 Delegation Without Perfection

42:27 Close the Loops: Tackle One Annoying Area to Build Momentum

43:57 Why Uncertainty Is Needed to Level Up

48:06 Seasons of Business

50:33 Putting Projects Down and Staying True to You

55:02 Redefining Success & Legacy

Mentioned in this episode:

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

https://www.salonrising.com

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

Loneliness is something we don’t talk about enough in our industry, yet it’s quietly impacting our health, our work, and our relationships.

In this solo Mini Moment, Jen reflects on a recent conversation sparked by Ange Davis and a statistic that stopped her in her tracks: loneliness has a similar impact on the body as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. From there, she explores how modern life, business efficiency, and the rise of solo work can unintentionally strip away real human connection.

This episode is a reminder of the unique role salon professionals play. For some clients, the chair is the only place they’re truly seen, heard, or even touched. And while connection can feel inconvenient, loneliness is far more costly. This Mini Moment invites you to pause, reflect, and consider how small acts of presence can profoundly affect both your clients’ wellbeing and your own.

Because in an industry built on human connection, showing up as a human might be the most powerful service you offer.

Mentioned in this episode:

https://www.salonrising.com

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

In this episode of Salon Rising: The Podcast, Sam and Jen sit down with the amazing Chantelle from Telleish for an honest, expansive conversation about what it truly takes to build and lead a large salon business, without losing yourself along the way. From humble beginnings and major personal sacrifice to creating one of Melbourne’s most iconic salons, Chantelle shares the reality behind the growth most people only see from the outside.

Together, they unpack the identity shift from hairdresser to leader, the emotional weight of managing big teams, pricing with confidence, paying stylists well, and why heart led business can be both your superpower and your biggest challenge. Chantelle also opens up about motherhood, stepping back from the floor, navigating staff turnover, and building systems that allow a salon to scale sustainably while still feeling human.

This episode is a grounded, real look at leadership, money, team culture, and long term thinking, especially for salon owners questioning what “success” actually looks like in this season of their life.

What we cover

1. The identity shift from stylist to leader (and why it can feel like grief)
2. Building and sustaining a large team without burning out
3. Pricing, profitability, and the roadmap to higher stylist earnings
4. Why not everyone will like you — and why that’s part of leadership
5. Creating a “salon for life” model that supports clients through every season

This episode is proof that there’s no single “right” way to build a salon. But there is a way to build one that feels rich in life, aligned with your values, and sustainable for the long haul.

Timestamps

00:00 Episode Summary

01:59 Guest Introduction

05:41 The Story Behind Telleish

09:56 Expanding and Innovating the Salon

22:44 Leadership and Team Management

30:00 Navigating Challenges and Personal Growth

41:30 Building Trust in the Workplace

41:46 The Importance of Team Loyalty

43:04 Challenges in the Hair Industry

44:00 Raising Prices to Elevate the Industry

44:48 Investing in Employee Growth

49:45 Balancing Business and Personal Life

55:06 Navigating Financial Challenges

58:26 Adapting to Industry Changes

1:12:22 The Value of Team Diversity

1:17:22 Concluding Thoughts and Future Plans

Mentioned in this episode:

https://www.salonrising.com

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

In this Mini Moment, Sam and Jen talk honestly about something salon owners rarely prioritise properly: a dedicated day to work on the business, not just survive inside it.

As they head into 2026, this chat is about boundaries, nervous system care, and why diarising your wellbeing is just as important as diarising clients. From admin Mondays to non negotiable “me days,” this episode is a reminder that sustainability is not lazy, it is leadership.

If you ended 2025 depleted, reactive, or running on fumes, this Mini Moment is your permission slip to slow down strategically and build a year that actually supports you.

What we cover

1. Why a weekly business admin day changes everything
2. The difference between maintenance work and true rest
3. Nervous system burnout and recognising the warning signs
4. Scheduling therapy, physio and health like real business commitments
5. Booking holidays early so rest is planned, not reactive

In short: this episode is a reminder that you are the asset. When you protect your energy, your business becomes stronger, calmer and far more sustainable.

Mentioned in this episode:

https://www.salonrising.com

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

Confidence as a salon owner is a funny thing. You can be incredible in the chair, calm with clients, talented as hell… and still feel completely rattled by team stuff, quiet weeks, money pressure, reviews, or the fear of being judged.

In this episode, Sam and Jen unpack the invisible weight salon owners carry and why confidence doesn’t mean “nothing goes wrong”, it means you keep leading even when things do.

We talk about the difference between winging it as a stylist (with foundations underneath) versus winging it as a business owner (and accidentally winging the outcome). This is your reminder that confidence is built through clarity, numbers, boundaries, brave conversations, and keeping promises to yourself. Not through pretending you’re smashing it when you’re secretly drowning.

What we cover

1. Why confidence gets shaken by team issues, quiet weeks, reviews and judgement
2. The difference between “faking it” and leading with real foundations
3. Why business owners lose confidence when they don’t know their numbers
4. How systems, boundaries and clarity create calm leadership
5. Why brave conversations (and owning your mistakes) build trust fast

In short: confidence isn’t something you magically have. It’s something you build, one clear decision, one hard conversation, and one honest look at your numbers at a time.

Timestamps:

00:00 Episode Summary

02:50 Confidence and Team Dynamics

06:58 Handling Judgement and Self Worth

11:07 Continuous Learning and Adaptation

23:33 External Validation and Self Worth

28:02 Living the Day Twice

28:29 Financial Planning and Sacrifices

29:11 Support Systems and Confidence

30:55 Boundaries and Business Decisions

36:28 Systems and Procedures

37:31 Knowing Your Numbers

39:41 Leading with Clarity

43:58 Brave Conversations

51:02 Building Confidence

53:18 Homework for Confidence

Mentioned in this episode:

First Align, then Redesign — Live Masterclass

If you’ve been moving from one season to the next without really stopping, this is for you.

Align Masterclass

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

https://www.salonrising.com

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

Growing your salon doesn’t always mean adding more days, more late nights or running yourself into the ground.

In this Mini Moment, Sam and Jen break down what actually moves the needle when you want more profit without more exhaustion.

This is a practical, honest chat about working smarter not harder. From optimising your appointment book, to charging correctly for the work you’re already doing, to being confident enough to say no to bookings that don’t serve your business.

If your diary feels full but your bank account doesn’t, this one will hit home.

What we cover:

1. Why optimising your appointment book can unlock thousands without adding hours
2. The real cost of undercharging
3. How treatment menus and client choice remove the awkwardness around retail
4. When it’s okay to say no to smaller bookings to protect higher value services
5. Why knowing your hourly number changes everything about how you book clients

This episode is a reminder that more clients isn’t always the answer. Better systems, clearer pricing and smarter booking decisions are.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast

00:17 How to Grow Your Salon Without Working More Hours

00:37 Optimising Appointment Books

01:13 Offering Additional Services

03:03 Pricing Strategies for Salon Services

03:41 Efficient Booking Practices

06:18 Balancing Workload and Client Satisfaction

10:30 Final Thoughts and Tips

www.salonrising.com

Mentioned in this episode:

https://www.salonrising.com

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

What happens when the babies on hips become teens with attitudes, endless school events and bigger problems…but business still needs you too?

In this raw, funny and very real episode, Sam and Jen return to one of the Inner Sanctum’s most loved topics...Motherhood in Business. And dive into what it really looks like when you’re raising kids while running a salon and carrying the mental load of it all.

From chaotic mornings and four different school drop offs, to the guilt, the overwhelm, the constant tabs open in our heads and the pressure to do it all… this episode is equal parts cathartic, comforting and hilariously relatable.

If you’ve ever felt like you’re doing the school run with one hand and holding your business together with the other, this one is for you.

What we cover

1. The mental load of older kids: bigger ages, bigger stakes
2. Why business owners need more support than ever
3. The money traps busy mums fall into (and what to look at instead)
4. Systems, hacks and tiny changes that save your sanity
5. How to find pockets of joy when life feels like “too much”

In short, this episode is a love note to every exhausted salon mum doing her best. A reminder that you’re not alone, you’re not losing it, and you’re allowed to choose joy and support over self sacrifice.

Timestamps

Mentioned in this episode:

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

https://www.salonrising.com

In this bite-sized chat, Jen is joined by Brayden from Your Salon Support, for a jargon free breakdown of the marketing terms every salon owner thinks they should know… but often doesn’t.

From marketing plans to AIO, social strategies to loyalty systems, Bray strips it all back so you know what matters, what you can ignore, and what actually moves the needle depending on whether you’re a solo operator or running a full team.

If marketing feels overwhelming or you’ve ever wondered “Do I really need all this?”, this is the episode that finally makes it make sense.

What we cover

• What a marketing plan actually is (and why it’s the foundation of everything)
• How a social media plan differs — and why it should never exist in a vacuum
• Why EDMs (email direct marketing) are the most underrated sales tool in the industry
• The rise of AIO and how ChatGPT is literally recommending salons
• The non-negotiables for solos vs. small salons vs. larger teams

If you’ve been feeling lost in the marketing maze, this Mini Moment is your permission slip to simplify, streamline and get strategic. Let’s make tech (and marketing) sexy, one clear plan at a time.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to Marketing Terminology

00:40 Understanding Marketing Plans

01:30 Crafting Effective Copy

05:02 Social Media Strategies

05:50 Email Direct Marketing (EDM)

08:57 The Importance of a Website

11:31 Artificial Intelligence Optimisation (AIO)

14:57 Tailoring Strategies for Solo Operators and Salons

16:09 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Mentioned in this episode:

https://www.salonrising.com

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

What a year!!

In this raw, honest, and surprisingly uplifting episode, Sam and Jen sit down to unpack the real 2025. The chaos, the curveballs, the court battles, the soaring rent, the unexpected grief, the kids’ schedules, the moments of magic, and the beautiful anchor that their salons have become.

From navigating explosive life seasons to rediscovering joy in small team culture, this conversation is a reminder that you can rebuild, recalibrate and keep rising, even when life feels loud.

They talk through what changed, what surprised them, what hurt, and what healed and why joy, rest, and the power of a mighty small team have reshaped the way they’ll run life and business in 2025. If you’ve had a year that stretched you, softened you or forced you to pivot, this episode will feel like a deep breath and a moment of being seen.

What we cover

1. The lease shock, the pivot plans and choosing a smaller, stronger team
2. Court battles, grief, overwhelm and learning to protect your peace
3. Why joy (not hustle) is the new KPI for 2026
4. The value of unplugging, resetting, and building in space before burnout hits
5. Letting go of control, embracing change and finding your anchor in the chaos

This is a conversation about the year that shaped us and the clarity, courage and joy we’re taking forward.

Timestamps:

00:00 Episode Summary

02:08 Christmas Preparations and Traditions

04:04 Balancing Business and Personal Life

09:10 Lease Challenges and Business Adaptations

16:22 Navigating Legal Battles and Personal Struggles

24:02 Reflecting on a Year in Business

24:39 Embracing the Power of Saying Yes

25:40 The Importance of Taking Time Off

27:17 Overcoming Overwhelm and Finding Balance

28:24 Creating Joyful Memories with Family

29:42 The Need for Personal Space and Self Care

32:22 Pivoting in Life and Business

41:11 Setting Goals and Embracing Uncertainty

46:24 Final Reflections and Looking Ahead

Mentioned in this episode:

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

https://www.salonrising.com

What’s really working for salons right now...and what isn’t?

In this Mini Moment, Jen sits down with Jeanette from Salon First to unpack findings from her Business Success 2025 Survey, which gathered insights from over 200 salon owners across Australia. The results reveal what’s changing, what’s staying the same, and where salon owners should really be focusing their energy this year.

From retention struggles to menu simplification and the rise of lash, brow and skin services, this chat cuts through the noise to highlight what’s actually moving the needle in 2025.

💡 What we cover:

1. The biggest shifts salons are making this year
2. Why retention matters more than reach
3. How to simplify your service menu for profit
4. What 200 salons said about memberships and growth
5. Why listening to clients still trumps every trend

A grounded reminder that success in 2025 isn’t about doing more, it’s about doing what works, and doing it well.

Special thanks to Jeanette McConville from Salon First

@salonfirst

https://www.salonfirst.com.au/

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction

00:52 Discussing the Feedback Survey

03:16 Key Takeaways from the Survey

08:15 Trends and Profitable Services

Mentioned in this episode:

💛 A HUGE Thank You to Our Podcast Sponsors - Timely

We’ve partnered with Timely to bring you something special:

➡ Enjoy a 14 day free trial to see how Timely can transform your salon.

➡ New customers get 50% off their first 3 months.

If you've been thinking about levelling up your salon systems, this is your moment. Timely is designed specifically for salons. Helping you manage bookings, clients, staff, and more with ease.

Use the code SALONRISING at checkout or click the link below to to claim the offer. 👇

Timely

🎧 Event Spotlight: THIS GENERATION

THIS GENERATION, presented by Monique McMahon, is a one-day, industry-led education experience bringing together three hair artists and three unique creative perspectives.

Joining Monique on the day are Taylah Jones and UK award-winning colourist Luci Green, sharing modern technique, global trends and ideas you can take straight back behind the chair.

The day also includes a business and mindset conversation supported by Salon Rising, with Jen and Samara attending on the day.

📍 Edwards & Co Fortitude Valley

🎟 Tickets are limited — find all the details via the link below 👇

This Generation

https://www.salonrising.com