Over the weekend the singer Sam Smith released a statement which read: “I’ve decided I am changing my pronouns to THEY/THEM.”

Coming from a pop artist who has sold over 20m records, this felt like a moment where non-binary hit the mainstream. Sam’s post sparked a debate about gender, identity and language.

Tom Rasmussen is a drag queen, writer and actor who identifies as non-binary, and Sam Smith credited Tom for helping them understand what it is to be this. We invited Tom into the Beyond Today studio to talk about pronouns, Celine Dion, and the trickiest conversations they’ve had with their mum.

Producers: Lucy Hancock and Alicia Burrell