Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's November 2025 visit to the United States is his first in more than seven years, and during the past few years Saudi Arabia has assumed an increasingly prominent role in regional and global affairs. In this episode, Brian Katulis sits down with Richard Fontaine, CEO of the Center for a New American Security, for a discussion focused on Saudi Arabia's emergence as a key "swing state" in regional and global dynamics. The two discuss "Global Swing States and the New Great Power Competition," a report that Fontaine published earlier this year with Gibbs McKinley. Richard also discusses his many travels around the world with the late Senator John McCain's delegations, the recent changes in the politics of US national security, and shares personal stories from trips Brian and Richard took together across the Middle East.