Sauna Talk

Today on the Sauna Talk podcast we welcome Ashley Mason.

Ashley Mason, earned her PhD in clinical psychology from the University of Arizona. She is an Associate Professor of Psychiatry in the Weill Institute for Neurosciences and the UCSF Osher Center for Integrative Health. Ashley is a clinical psychologist and directs behavioral treatment for insomnia at the UCSF Osher Center Clinic. She is Director of the UCSF Sleep, Affect, and Eating (SEA) Lab. Ashley is the Co-Director of the UCSF Center for Obesity Assessment, Study, and Treatment (COAST). She is primarily a researcher but also treats patients for insomnia within the Osher Center Sleep Clinic.

In our chat today, you’ll learn about her work surrounding “whole body hyperthermia.”

Her 2023 BrainMind Summit presentation touches upon sauna and how heat treatment may have a positive impact on depression by regulating body temperature. Reintegrating thermal stress could be an effective approach to treating some individuals with depression.

There is correlation between core body temperature and depression. Editing thermal stress out of our lives (air conditioning, climate controlled indoor living has put is in “the narrow band.”, when all along, acute heat stress could help us! Especially when the idea of an ice cold lake plunge after sauna is about the best idea we’ve ever heard!

I’m pleased to welcome Ashley Mason to Sauna Talk.

Today on the Sauna Talk podcast, i’m pleased to present Earric Lee, who is a leading researcher surrounding the health benefits of sauna.

As you listen along, you’ll hear the background noise of the busy-ness and hustle and bustle of London streets. As, instead of on the sauna bench, we capture this episode outside a London hotel.

Earric and I converged for the recent British Sauna Society Sauna Summit. And it was here, in London, where I was able to capture Earric. And share with you his exhaustive yet budding effort to help bring sauna research to the forefront.

Earric Lee is a fellow board member of the Sauna Research Institute. He has a clear focus on helping de-silo sauna researchers globally. He is also committed to helping advance studies towards what you and I know to be true. Sauna is good for us.

So, let’s welcome ..

This is episode #100 of Sauna Talk.

Do you want to know the Sauna Talk origin story? Well, when I started this podcast in 2016, 8 years ago, the idea was to help capture a bit of what felt like on the sauna bench. That’s a place where deep, collaborative conversations can happen. It’s often a place of untangling the wires in our heads, where our minds can open up to creative thinking, and problem solving.

It’s a fun place. Sauna Talk is described here as:

Sauna talk is a different kind of talk. It is casual talk between a father and his teenage son, and reconnection talk with a friend you wish you could see more frequently, or collaborative talk amongst NHL hockey players or business partners working through a strategy. This happens because we have no distractions and we are relaxed in mind, body, and spirit.

As we know, sitting on the sauna bench creates an interesting environment. Our bodies are being stressed, yet we are feeling very relaxed. For many of us, talking and thinking is difficult. Yet for others, it’s an environment where thoughts and ideas start flowing like in a kaleidoscope of colors.

In this episode, you will hear some excerpts from a few of the 99 episodes:

The Sauna Talk origin.

Tom and I are still very close buds. He and I are working on the book Sauna Life, and it’s a slow process.

Daryl Lamppa 22:46 – the old style stoves in the area.

17:48 peddling to hockey stores.

18:15 Finding the hockey player entrepreneurs in their own towns.

17:03 Sauna & Cold. 19:03

30:10-30-55 goals for further sauna research

29:35-32:06, explaining veniks.

33:20-35:21. Finland happiest country. Explains his reasoning.

Bring the owners into the sauna.

35:20 – 37:18. That feeling that you have contributed to something good in life.

I hope you enjoy any one or number of these 100 episodes! It has been a pleasure hearing and sharing the motivations and passions of so many remarkable people!

Putting these episodes together has been a privilege. Sharing them with you continues to be a joy.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Ragna Marie Fjeld, General Secretary, Oslo Badstuforening.

What does Badstuforening translate to in English? Sauna Association. So, let me tell you a bit about the Oslo Sauna Association. Founded in 2016, the same year as the 612 Sauna Society in Minneapolis, Minnesota. But the difference start here. Where 612 has one sauna, and granted it is the original sauna with the same work horse original sauna stove, benches, walls, and spiritual patina abound, Oslo Badstuforening’s inaugural first sauna seeds were planted in much more fertile soil.

The soil along the harbor of Oslo’s fjord was ripe for sauna expansion. Yes, their original first sauna is still operational, and with a spiritual patina rating of 9.4, but surrounding this flagship sauna is a fleet of 18 additional saunas: 14 other floating saunas, and 4 mobile saunas. And as you listen to this, chances are that these numbers will be outdated and higher.

The Osla Sauna Association train is not slowing down. As you will hear in this episode, the constraints to growth and expansion are, well, just not there.

Revenue? No. They are most often fully booked (and by the way, very reasonably priced for all economies of economic income scales).

Steam master hosts? No. As you will hear, their HR department is busy with applicants. Including doctors and politicians.

Builders? No. Matter of fact, every architect in Norway wants to design a sauna.

Their corporate offices are unassuming and yet buzzing with activity. People dig working here, and their Secretary General, Ragna Marie Fjeld runs a collaboratively effective ship. Let’s listen in.

Today on Sauna Talk, we welcome Alan Jalasjja who shares with us “The Spirit of Sauna.”

Alan is an evangelist who is with us to help promote the experience. Growing up with sauna his whole life, as a Finnish Canadian, we get the perspective of what sauna spirit means to him.

The growth of the event compared to 2022

I encourage you to click through the link towards his Op Ed opinion piece that recently appeared in the Globe and Mail, which discusses “enjoying sauna in the now.” Sure the health benefits are there for the long term, but wow, let’s enjoy our sauna time now.

We discuss the value of time. The holy trinity to a good cool down: cold water, nature, time.

• fire
• air
• water
• earth (the stones).

Some magical gems from Alan, and happy to share with you here.

A lot has happened with Lasse Eriksen, 2.0, from our first Sauna Talk just a little over two years ago.

This meeting took place on the beach in front of Farris Bad resort, south of Oslo, Norway.

Here Lasse is the Development Manager for this top notch resort set along the shore of Norweigen’s majestic coastline. Development Manager means that Lasse is given a lot of reign to help steward sauna (bastu in Norwegian) as both a noun – the place we go, as well as the verb – the thing we do inside the hot room.

And for the verb, guests are treated to aufguss, and all its glory. Upon check in, guests are welcome to grab an updated flyer, which lists all the saunas on property, as well as a schedule of the aufguss events for that week.

As you will hear in this interview: Lasse’s aim is true. We know that sauna is wonderful for our wellbeing. And Lasse is deeply committed to sharing and promoting it. In addition to Development Manager for FarrisBad, Lasse is board member of the International Sauna Association, and the Norwegian Sauna Association. Lasse is Vice President of Aufguss WM, a kindred spirit to many of us, and I’m pleased to say a great friend of mine.

I love this guy. Maybe i’m getting to be a soft in my grey hair age, but Lasse had me in tears a couple of times. I feel his passion, and I hope you do too.. I’m pleased to present Lasse Eriksen, to Sauna Talk!

Today on the sauna talk bench we are joined by Stew and his sons David and Kyle Wilson, from the Homecraft sauna heater family.

Who is Homecraft? Homecraft is one of Canada’s longest running sauna manufacturers, this multigenerational, family-owned business has steadily grown in the shadows of towering old-growth cedar trees outside Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.

We gather on my sauna bench, the three of them lined up for interrogation as I manage the steam and the microphone from down low. Yes, those in the sauna industry from Canada are well aware that the Wilson’s are polite straight shooters from Canada, but these virtues come forth loud and clear during this episode on the sauna bench. As I throw water and make steam, there is little room for anything but clarity and transparency.

So, we are the beneficiaries. We learn about sauna culture in Canada, the history of this family company, and what good sauna means to Stew, David, and Kyle.

No matter what the product, it could be a couch, or a pen, or a bar of soap, more and more of us are interested in learning more about the people behind the product. And this is true also for electric sauna heaters. How a sauna heater preforms is critically important. How is the steam? Is there someone in North America to support the product after the sale? Are the elements going to fail? And if so, will I be pulling apart 300 rocks to replace an element in six months? These are the kind of questions we are asking ourselves.

And yet, there’s another line of thought that goes into our electric sauna heater purchase decision. Who are these people? Some may be influenced by authoritarian foreign accents. But, beyond the sauna cognition theory, we may not be fully sure who is making our sauna heater. Is it Jens assembling the sauna heater, or Xinchong’s young teenage daughter assembling the sauna heater? And how far did this box have to travel before coming to our front steps? Well, in the case of Homecraft electric saunas, you’ll be hearing directly from the people behind the product.

And what’s cool is that Kyle, the younger son, like David from Superior Saunas, has a pastoral background. Who better to sit on the sauna bench with than someone who has a spiritual connection to sauna? Stew’s younger son, another David, is a licensed electrician, having run his own company for 10 years. Who better to have your electrician call with a screwdriver in their hands than David at Homecraft?

So, this is what we get with the guys at Homecraft. Practically designed and manufactured by and for electricians. And spiritually designed and manufactured for spiritualists.

We get into the weeds about the mechanics of electric sauna heaters. And I think you’ll find as we listen through, I am the one to get nerdy. And the Wilson guys are the ones to keep it light. Those that know me, know my dedication towards good sauna. I’ve had a rocky road the last couple of years navigating towards both good products AND good people in this space. Like Lamppa Manufacturing in Tower, Minnesota, I am pleased to introduce you to Homecraft from BC Canada.

Again, it’s the people AND the product.. and when it comes to Homecraft, you’ve found both. So, please welcome, David, Stew, and Kyle Wilson to Sauna Talk.

As we look back upon Sauna Days 2024, walking from one sauna to the next, pretty much all of us were comfortably numb.

About 200 guest converged for the fourth Sauna Days event at Larsmont Cottages, North of Duluth, Minnesota, this past weekend. Some came from near, and many came from far. All were able to enjoy the multitude of saunas, speakers, nature, and locally crafted food, beverages, and live entertainment.\

The recipe for a comfortably numb sauna gathering is much like a basic chocolate chip cookie recipe. We don’t need too many ingredients to make something scrumptious.

The foundation for Sauna Days 2024 was 12 mobile saunas and one lämpömassa enriched brick and mortar sauna. Then, sprinkle in various food tents, strategically located hydration stations. Add a pinch of LMNT hydration packets (flavors of choice) and a curation of interesting speakers. Finally, as icing on the cake, infinity cold plunge access into the world’s largest freshwater lake.

A good number of the 200 plus Sauna Days 2024 attendees were repeat vendors and offenders. Familiar faces helped foster countless spontaneous re-connections either on the bench, by one of fire pits, at the bar, on the rocks, or in the lake. “So great to see you again!” And they meant it. “Is this your second or third Sauna Days?”

The spontaneous gatherings were akin to traveling from stage to stage at an outdoor music festival. Then, bumping into familar faces from year’s past. And, like attending a music festival with great bands and few yahoos, at Sauna Days, everyone knew the lyrics. Songs include: keep sandals outside the saunas, help fill up the löyly buckets, ask who is ready for steam before throwing water on the rocks, and by all means, close the sauna door.

As sauna becomes more popular, Sauna Days continues to draw people from places beyond the Great Lakes sauna belt region. I found myself on the bench with a couple who came all the way from the Yukon Territory. Other Canadians included Kyle Wilson, Homecraft Saunas, and his wife from Vancouver BC. We had guests from Salt Lake City, Oregon, Northern and Southern California, Florida. And yet none of these participants received the Furthest Traveled Award. That accolade was awarded to Jake Newport from Finnmark saunas. A close second went to Mika & Wendy from the British Sauna Society. The three represented the UK well, proucly wearing their signature British Blue robes as sauna uniforms.

The Brits added some great flavor to the Sauna Days speaker series. Jake Newport shared a slide of a map of Great Britain, showing 100 dots around the British coastline, representing the number of mobile sauna activations there. “Pretty much every beach around the coastline now has a public sauna.” We breathed along with Nick Fox, Learned about Sauna and Sobriety, gleaned insight into the future and scale of Therme Group’s wellbeing oasis’s (bigger than Yankee Stadium!) with President Robbie Hammond.

Many were quietly sharing that a highlight experience for Sauna Days 2024 was getting wacked around by one of the three Steam Masters. The three administered venik treatments in either the Steam Lodge or Deep Wave Sauna’s Black Night sauna. We were blessed to have three steam masters lead rounds of venik treatments. Dan from The Banya House, California Alex, and B Alex from BSaunas in Buffalo, NY.

In addition to Sauna Days being the first weekend of May, the Steam Masters introduced us to a sister event first weekend of October: Banya Fest at a stately church camp just outside Minneapolis/St. Paul. A highlight of the weekend was learning more about the ancient practice of Eastern European banya and venik treatments, documented as a Sauna Days presentation and a soon to be released Sauna Talk podcast.

As wonderful as it was to experience multiple saunas scattered throughout the grounds at Larsmont Cottages, once again, nature seems to provide us with the best amenity. Larsmont Cottages is set along the shores of Lake Superior. Sauna Days guests were treated to rosy red skyline sunsets, night skies bursting with stars, and even a Hawaii-esque rainbow, as we celebrated a passing shower in the later afternoon sun.

Northern Minnesota sauna is always enjoyed in nature. Sauna in nature is bigger than all of us. And no bigger than within Sauna Days 2024 at Larsmont Cottages, Two Harbors, Minnesota.

Today on the actual sauna bench, we are joined and talk with Jake Newport from Finnmark.

Jake makes the journey from Northern England to join me on the Larsmont Cottages sauna bench in Northern Minnesota, by the cold, clear clean water shores of Lake Superior. You can also check out my podcast with Jake and Brother Max from 2020 here.

During this episode, we learn more from Jake about the thermal bathing ecosystem in the UK and globally. From career path change to multi pronged sauna business. Investing and reinvesting in the culture and the company.

Fully grounded by being the first guests to Sauna Days. We enjoy solitary quiet time to ground ourselves through the hot and the cold.

Mika & Wendy – lifetime achievement awards for sauna. BSS founding. The explosion of sauna in Great Britain. Huge number getting into the thermal bathing scene. Beautiful saunas on beautiful beach. Beach Box Brighton.

Three things that give us the feeling of community: a the church, the pub, and the village green society. Britain has become more secular. People now are far more health conscious. A void around community, and a sense of community. A gap waiting to be filled. A huge spectrum of age. Mikkel Aaland, and the “lost bathing culture” and the return of uptick of thermal bathing.

Jake describes the sauna in which we are sitting. How the sauna is Finnish style. He calls out the Western Red Cedar, and full wooden door. Jake describes the Kuuma stove: “This is a heater that you buy once.”

It’s the hot, then the cold, then the normalization. lying outside on the cold wet grass, Jake found himself unwound and relaxed.

Today on Sauna Talk we welcome Charlie from Community Sauna Baths in England.

Who is Community Sauna Baths? Well, they are Community Interest Company, a CIC, who is dedicated to providing affordable sauna sessions to the communities they serve. Currently with four locations, including their flagship locale in Hackney, East London.

Here is where we catch up with Charlie, one of the directors at Community Sauna Baths for this podcast.

Currently Community Sauna Baths are serving thousands of customers from the area. Local Londoners as well as a lot of visitors from abroad. Irish, some Finns, you name it.

As you’ll here, Charlie grew up with the classic toaster oven experience at health clubs. Then, he was deeply affected to the positive, partacking in sauna at the Finnish Church and also Lost Horizons, the pop up social sauna in London.

Feeling a tug to help advance the social communal experience, Charlie leaned in to helping with the ambitious Hackney Baths fundraising project with the British Sauna Society. The fundraising came up short, but it did pave the way towards a more organic project. 2 donated saunas, one from Charlie.

We talk about countless hours of donated time to host sessions. How they are learning as we are going, starting slow by serving random members of the public in Hackney London. Slow organic growth. Adding days. Modifying and improving the site. Victoria and Gabrielle building website and marketing.

The staff provides a real nice blend of skills. Part of the beauty is that good heat and cold does most of the heavy lifting. Staff supports the good heat and cold, and people benefit from and enjoy the experience.

Looking to grow. Charlie is helping work on a new site. We learn about the South London project, in Peckam, as part of the community garden. Bringing saunas into natural spots in London.

4th one in Normandy. Rob’s project. The first beach sauna in France.

UK affordable and inclusive.

Charlie cut his teeth as a management consultant. Great learning experience. Freelance consulting. Started a mushroom farm. Full time. Able to pay himself a salary. Well paying job for staff. Community interest Company. A commercial mind with a non for profit structure.

New community sauna in Bristol. Using profits to seed other new saunas.

Setting the seeds for a community Sauna Network.