In this episode, hosts Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon examine the presidential veto — what it is, what it isn’t, and why it remains one of the most potent constitutional powers in modern governance.

They dissect the mechanics of Article I, Section 7, and explain the differences between the qualified veto (which Congress can override) and the pocket veto (which Congress cannot). Along the way, they revisit presidential losers like Andrew Johnson, discover why Reagan and Clinton both wanted a line-item veto and explore why even the threat of a veto is often more powerful than the veto itself.

Plus, a special focus on the institutional tug-of-war that defines the separation of powers and how the veto isn’t just a tool for lawmaking, but a key part of constitutional interpretation.

In This Episode

• (00:00:00) Reading the Constitution’s veto clause
• (00:01:42) Why the word “veto” never appears in the Constitution
• (00:02:17) Qualified vs. absolute veto power
• (00:03:58) How pocket vetoes work and why they’re sneaky
• (00:04:56) Override math: why two-thirds matters
• (00:06:46) Less than 10 percent of vetoes are overridden
• (00:07:54) Veto failures: Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, George W. Bush
• (00:10:49) The veto as a political threat
• (00:13:00) Institutional vs. partisan power struggles
• (00:14:00) Madison's veto dreams and regrets
• (00:18:28) Reagan, Clinton, and the failed line-item veto
• (00:20:00) Clinton v. City of New York (1998)
• (00:24:23) Congress’s habit of abdication
• (00:25:26) Can the line-item veto return? Maybe.
• (00:26:00) Why do presidents explain their vetoes
• (00:28:00) Veto messages as constitutional arguments
• (00:29:14) Nixon’s War Powers Resolution veto lives on
• (00:30:00) Who interprets the Constitution? Everyone.
• (00:32:00) Checks, balances, and constitutional fights that matter

Notable Quotes

[00:02:06] “The president can veto a bill, subject to two-thirds override, but the word ‘veto’ doesn’t even appear in the Constitution.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston

[00:04:29] “The pocket veto isn’t in your face. It’s like, ‘Oops, I forgot to act and now all your legislative effort is dead.’” — Savannah Eccles Johnston

[00:11:24] “This almost feels like an absolute veto because you could never muster the political will to override it.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston

[00:24:30] “Congress can’t get its house in order, so they ask the president to run it for them.” 

— Savannah Eccles Johnston

[00:29:14] “Sometimes a veto message gets overridden, but the constitutional argument inside it eventually wins.” — Matthew Brogdon

[00:31:00] “The constitutional system is structured so that each branch has to interpret the Constitution for itself.” — Matthew Brogdon

Resources and Links

This Constitution  

• Website

Savannah Eccles Johnston

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/savannah-eccles-johnston-515a72198/
• https://www.instagram.com/savypolitics/

Matthew Brogdon

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-brogdon-8a21bb89
• https://www.uvu.edu/ccs/people/matthew_brogdon.html