Hey, hey, what's going on, everyone? This is Steve Larsen, and you're listening to another episode of Secret MLM Hacks Radio. Here's the real mystery. How do real MLMers like us who didn't cheat and only bug family members and friends, who want to grow a profitable home business, how do we recruit A players into our downlines and create extra incomes yet still have plenty of time for the rest of our lives? That's the blaring question, and this podcast will give you the answer. My name is Steve Larsen, and welcome to Secret MLM Hacks Radio.
Hey, guys, this is a bit of a different episode. What I did is I went out and I found a guy who is a honestly spectacular individual. He is rare, meaning, he's gone out and he has made seven figures in traditional business, and then he made another seven figures inside of MLM. What's kind of cool is he's going to go through and teach. I asked him to come on this podcast and teach some of the strategies that he's been using. Does that make sense?
So he's going to go through and he's going to show, number one, some of the strategies that he's been using inside of MLM to grow a downline that honestly it's run like an actual business. He doesn't recruit people personally anymore. All he does is teach his other people how to do that. Does that make sense? He has embraced this idea of duplication. He's embraced this idea of recruiting people the right way without ...
Let's say you are talking to family members and friends. How do you do it in a respectful way? So he's going to go through some of those things with you as well as one of the most powerful recruiting strategies I've ever heard. So anyway, kind of sit back. Relax a little bit with this. It is a little bit of a longer episode, but I think this interview is going to be powerful, and I think it'll be ... This is technically the first interview of this podcast, and I plan to do a whole bunch more. I have in my other show, but, anyway, this'll be a good one, and excited for him. His name is Jon Penkert, and he has actually pulled in through his downline over half a billion in revenue, and he's done this kind of stuff several times.
He knows what he's talking about. So anyways, very, very honored to have him on the show, and let's dive right in. We have a very unique opportunity to hear from honestly one of the most brilliant people I've ever met. I actually only met him probably only a month or two ago, but right off the bat I could tell something was different. I have on the call with me Mr. Jon Penkert, who alone inside of the MLM industry, he's one of the top income earners. He's one of those rare guys that has done both seven figures in regular business but also seven figures in the network marketing business.
One of the things he's taught me is that most people only recruit two and a half, one, two to three people into their MLM business ever, and to say that he's done, which is true, over 500 million in his own downline is absolutely amazing. So anyway, I'm excited to have Mr. Jon Penkert here with me. How are you doing, man?
Hey. Good morning, Steven. Thanks for having me on the call. It's a privilege to be speaking with you.
I'm really excited that you're here. This is a very unique take. Most of the time when you hear the word "MLM," I'm sure you were the exact same, you kind of tend to run the other way. Most people do, anyway, and I know that you've have figured out, though, the way that this whole thing works. But before we jump into that, I actually wanted to ask, how did you get into MLM?
I was an entrepreneur out of college and moved to Southern California. I wanted to take advantage of the business opportunities there and leverage my skills and my degree. When I arrived, in California, it's kind of the mecca for network marketing. I never really heard of MLM, and so a friend of mine invited me to a meeting, and I was very skeptical. It just seemed too good to be true.
Sure.
I couldn't believe all the money they were making, and so I was like, "Man, I got to check this out. And it's funny. You say that people run from MLM. What happened is I started getting involved in network marketing, and then people started running from me.
Exactly.
So I learned very quickly that this MLM business, it's rife with problems, and you end up losing a lot of your friends in the beginning because you don't understand what's required to be successful. You don't understand the key ingredients to network marketing that make successful champions are no different than any other facet of life, whether it's business or music or sports. There's a formula to success, and once you figure that out and you embrace the formula, then guess what? You begin to have the success that you long for.
Did you know what that formula was when you first started?
No. As a matter of fact, I have about 10 years of pain, which means failure. I learned that success is built on the back of failure, and I certainly, I used to tell people, "I'm the biggest loser in network marketing because I tried everything and did it wrong." So I got about 10 years of pain before I figured out, you know what, there's got to be a smarter way to do this.
That's amazing. So when you first joined, though, I guess, what happened? Where was all that kind of failure? Most people don't talk about the failure parts, but I think we can all relate to it.
Well, I don't fail small; I fail big. I joined a company. Back in the '80s people in California were making $30,000 a month in network marketing, and there was a company called Fund America. You can research it. It actually is the case ... all the case law studies. It changed the industry because back then, you paid a lot of money for your membership fees. It was high membership fee to get involved in these clubs, these MLM clubs.
And the federal government shut them down for illegal Ponzi scheme, and so the big boys like Herbal Life and Amway, they all went to school on that, and they changed how they come to a market. So all the case law for network marketing was really centered around that Fund America. You can do the research on the lawsuit. It turned out they came out on the other side nine months later innocent and not being convicted of a Ponzi scheme because it wasn't, but it ruined the business opportunity, and all the downline had dissipated.
So all of us had got involved and began to build saw the rug literally pulled out from under us and what we thought was the biggest opportunity of our life, and we're all going to become millionaires, and the truth is you realize, you know what, if you don't have experienced leaders that have set a foundation to do it right, you're going to get taken out, and there's a lot of examples of that today, but the case law began with that Fund America opportunity that I was knee-deep in and got the rug pulled out from under me.
So you came in while that was all going on, then?
Yeah. Actually I had the misfortune of coming in at the end. I got all my guys in, and we started running right as they closed the doors.
Oh, man. Oh my gosh. So did you pick up and go obviously to somewhere else, then, I'm sure?
Yeah. Then I got into a couple other companies. I tried to travel industry is big in network marketing, and I tried supplements. That's also big in network marketing. The number one product in network marketing is weight loss. We live in a culture that suffers from obesity. And everybody wants the quick fix. So there's a formula to losing weight, but everybody wants to take a pill, often times in network marketing companies begin with weight loss. It's very common.
The problem with weight loss, for those of you who are in weight loss know that 90 to 120 days into the journey, people do one of two things: They lose the weight and get off your product, or they don't lose the weight, and they blame your product. And you lose your residual income oftentimes in weight loss because people don't stay loyal to the product. So weight loss is a tough way to create residual income.
Interesting. I mean, so that is fascinating, then. So did you deliberately steer away from that? I mean, obviously you're asking questions that most people who are brand new in MLM like never ask. Those are an awareness of the economy, and the market, and what's selling and what isn't. It's through the roof. It probably wasn't like that at the beginning, though, I'm sure, was it?
Well, it's not. I mean, when you look at an opportunity, most people get involved in an opportunity because it's based on hype, right? "My really good friend found the product they love, and now I love it, and we're going to get rich together, and we're going to do network marketing." Those are not good reasons to join a network marketing company. Unfortunately, that's how most people get involved in network marketing, and then when they don't make the money, then they're like, "Oh, what happen?"
So there's like five pillars of things that are important in network marketing. For those of your listeners that want to do the ... I was like, "Where do I find out about how to be successful?" Harvard Business Review actually has a study on MLMs and what it takes to be successful. Go read it. Google it and find out here's the key ingredients that you need to be successful in network marketing. It's out there. It's not a secret.
That's fascinating. That's fascinating. So you go into was it Fund America? And they go, and they kind of go under and go through all that big stuff. Then you transfer to another MLM. Were you successful, you'd say, in that one, or were you kind of still learning what it took to be successful with it?
Yeah. Well, I mean, I had I'm a Type A driver, and I'm very successful-oriented, so I'm a guy that I'm going to just try to make it work. And so I've done a lot of network marketing opportunities, but where I had the light bulb moment, the aha moment was when one of my friends, I said, "Hey, get involved in this one. We're making a lot of money, and we're driving the new cars, and we're doing all this stuff." He looked and me and he said, "Jon, you always get the car, but none of the rest of us do," and that was where I went, "Wait a minute."
Powerful.
"It's not about how much money I can make or what I can do. I want to find an opportunity where I can mentor people and help them drive the new car." So that was a paradigm shift in my thought process. I said, "You know what? I have to look for something. There's a word that is abused in network marketing. It's called 'duplicated.' I got news for you guys: Everything duplicates. Success duplicates and so does failure. So if you're using your influence to build your network marketing business, it's not duplicatable and ultimately will fail because your people don't have your influence."
But if you have a system that people can follow to make money, the system will duplicate, and then you have an opportunity in network marketing to create a sustainable residual income. So the system has to duplicate. You can't just use you influence. And that's when the light bulb went off for me. I said, "You know what? It's not good enough for me to be able to do it. I have to enroll people on the journey and will help them actually accomplish their goals."
That's huge. So from that point on, you went for it and just noticed it. I mean, it's got to be a system that's duplicatable rather than you being duplicatable. System-wise what did you go create? What was it that you knew you had to go do?
Well, the first thing that I do when I look at a network marketing company is I say, "Look, I need 90 days to see if the system duplicates," because once you begin ... Most people make the mistake of measuring their success on their sign-up bonuses: "I went out and got a few people to sign up, and they got some people to sign up, and in the first 30 days, I made $3,000." That's not a duplicatable system; that's a sales job. And so the money you make on the front end isn't as important as if I sign you up, Steven. How much money do I make on you four months from now when you're on autoship? That's the key because if I want to residual income, it's not your sign-up bonuses, but it's your monthly autoship that creates an income for me.
Now, if I have a product that doesn't have a monthly autoship component, you can't create residual income. So it's got to be something that you need or want every month. Most people will buy something for a couple of months. But is it sustainable? What does that mean? Is it something that as a consumer six months from now you're still going to buy, because if you're not going to buy it, then I don't have a residual income stream. So I always measure the opportunity not how much money do I make up front, but what kind of residual incomes am I making on an autoship function three, four, five months out? And then I look at the percentages of growth.
If my growth percentage is there, then I've got something, not the paycheck. If you look at your paycheck in the first two or three months of any opportunity and measure the long-term viability, you're making a mistake.
Fascinating. So 90 days to prove the system. Got to have the monthly autoship as a component, so the MLM let me choose. What other components should people look for when they are choosing one?
So there's a saying in business. Remember, I'm a ... One of the things that made me successful in network marketing is realizing that my entrepreneurship business skills in traditional business, they don't translate will to network marketing, and so when you try to bring you skill set from a traditional business model into network marketing, it doesn't work. It doesn't translate-
Like what? What do you mean?
... until you h- ... Well, entrepreneurship requires a skill set where you have an ability to take risks, and make very quick decisions, and cut your losers fast, and leverage a skill set more than a system. And so you try to bring your skills into network marketing, it doesn't work because why? You're managing a volunteer army. Nobody works for you. It's like a sports team. Everyone's part of the team, and we want to win together, but since no one works for me, I can't hold them accountable. I have to motivate them, which is why network marketing oftentimes leverages self-help, right? Become a better version of yourself. Work on yourself because the stronger self you have, the more people you're going to lead.
Fascinating. So it's all about the motivation, then, for that. I didn't realize ... I mean, I knew that, I mean, MLM is kind of like biz op wrapped around ... with the personal development wrapped around it. But that's a fascinating way to describe that though. I've never thought of it that way.
So, let's look you said, "What's important? What do I look for?" Sports parallels business that parallels network marketing. What am I talking about? Leadership is the number one thing that has the biggest impact on your success. Why is that? Because the rate of the pack is determined by the speed of the leaders, and it doesn't matter if you look at successful sports teams or business or network marketing, you got to have good leadership.
So that's one of the things that I leverage going into an opportunity is are the leaders experienced? Are they just a bunch of guys that found a product that have never run a marketing company? Or are their leaders proficient at the global business model? Because, listen, you guys, today network marketing is the business model of the 21st century. There is no greater. And what you are going to get paid to do is monetize networks that you build globally, not networks locally in a local market, but your ability to sell products and services globally in a global marketplace, which means what? Language conversion, currency conversion, you monetize global networks, you want to be with a leader who's done that before, somebody who's opened up other countries, someone who understands logistically how to deliver products into those countries because you can have the greatest product in the world, but if you don't have a leadership team that can deliver, you're going to end up with a lot of unhappy customers.
So what are you doing to train people below you to become leaders? Because that, like you said, really does seem where all that duplication is even possible.
Leadership, I have my own philosophy on leadership, and in the leadership circles, I've studied leadership, and there's a great argument in leadership, and it's are leaders created or are they born? They go back and forth on that question, and the truth is it's neither. Leaders aren't born. You're not a born leader, and you can't just choose someone and create a leader. I like to look at leadership one of two ways: You're either a cheerleader, which sits at the back of the room and encourages everybody to be the best they can be, and go out there and charge, and go do it; and then there's the servant leader that says, "You know what? I'm going first. I'm going to go, and go across the river, and swim across, and make sure it's not dangerous, and make sure it's attainable. Then I'm going to encourage my people to follow me."
So leaders are neither born nor created; leaders are chosen. And the masses will chose to follow you if you're cutting the path, and doing the right things, and having the success. Success attracts success. So as a leader moves forward quickly, there creates a vacuum that people will follow. So my definition of a leader first and foremost is the visionary who's following the path and setting the right example. And the people will follow.
That is definitely the best definition of leadership I've ever heard, okay, a cheerleader or a servant leader, and you're chosen by others based on you cutting the path and being an example. Wow, that's amazing. So you go out, and you're teaching others to do that obviously, and that's, you know, because you've chosen an MLM with the monthly autoship and you have to develop new skills, you now have the potential for actual residual income. What are you doing to actually find people?
It was fascinating, you told me when I first met you, man, what did you say, the average person recruits only like 2.3 people in their life ever? Is that what the stat was?
Yeah. Well, the industry standard, and, look, these are standards. Jim Rohn is a great leader and champion of network marketing, and you can't beat the system, and the system says the average person is going to recruit 2.5 people in their career. So what network marketing companies try to do is they try to attract the superstars recruiters that are going to recruit 200 people, but just do the math. Eventually if you have a system that requires the average person to recruit more than 2.5 people, for instance, well, you're going to set them up to fail because you can't beat basically the laws in network marketing.
Interesting. So one of the other pieces you taught me just floored me. I mean, I just was blown away by the strategy. Do you mind jumping into it? Now, I actually before was, before I did any marketing, I actually was going into CIT. I was going to be a programmer, and I was learning about these things called binaries, but you dropped that word, and it meant something totally different for the MLM world. Do you mind describing what it is that you were sharing with me?
Well, let's take a step back. The one thing that's consistent in life is change. Change is always going to happen. If you would've come to me 10 years ago and said, "Jon, I got an MLM, and it's a binary. Will you join?" I don't want to join that because an old-school definition of a binary, the way they set them up really hurt people, and so the fairest comp plan was the uni-level. There's matrix, and there's different comp plan styles, and different hybrids, but all of the legacy companies ran a uni-level platform. But the truth is in a uni-level, you got to bring your 20 friends into a room, get them signed up, push them out, and say, "Go get your own 20 friends." That's how I make residual income, but you got to go to work and get a job.
That really catered to the type A drivers who could recruit, but it doesn't help the average person. Why? Because the average person is only going to bring in a couple of people, and now you need a front line of 20. So it begins to unravel. Now, I say that; I made a lot of money in uni-levels, but today the hybrid binaries serve the masses the very best. Why do I say that? Because if you have a system where the average person is going to get 2.5 people recruited, and you have a three-legged system, four-legged system, five-legged system to be successful, you're setting yourself up to fail, but if you have a binary system, which is a two-legged system and you're building a team, and 100% of the people, as the recruiter, that you bring in either go into your left team or your right team, that means each person benefits from not only your ability to recruit, but I've set them up to succeed because their 2.5 people does what? It qualifies them, one left, one right, and now they have a least a half a person overflow into their downline.
So now every person is adding to the success of the system, and the system supports the 2.5 people they're going to get, if that makes sense. I know sometimes when you talk about numbers, people get a little foggy, but that's the reason the binaries today are the best leverage point to create residual income.
So, for example, and just so everyone understands on who's listening as well, my first month of MLM was a classic example of ultimate failure. I did a great job of recruiting people. I literally went down Main Street and I recruited 13 people in that first month, but I spread them so wide. They were out all over the place, and you're saying that's not what I should do, right?
Yeah. Let's look at it: I like analogies in life, and if you take a very large room and you have all of these light bulbs that are lighting the room, the light source defuses the light, and it lights the room. But that's not maximizing the energy. Laser beams maximize the energy, so if you took all the light and you focused it into a small beam, you could cut steal with it.
So when I'm running a team as a leader, I want to maximize their efficiency, so I don't want them focused on 10 legs on their front line. I want them to run this business with maximum leverage. So a two-legged systems does what? It focuses their time and energy in basically two streams. So you're not diffusing your energy; you're focusing your energy, and your teams can run faster.
So you're saying, just in case people don't understand also the lingo or jargon, you said only two-legged, meaning I'm only going to put two people directly below me, right, and then try and do that for the people below them also, right?
Yeah. In a binary system, I sign you up, Steven, and you go get two people, one left, one right. They get two people, one left, one right. Now when you get the third person in the business, it has to go under Team A or Team B. So now what's happened is those people that have joined you in the business opportunity, they take advantage of their upline, your ability to recruit to help them build their residual income. That's powerful. That's what J. Paul Getty said when he said, "Look, I'd rather have 1% of 100 people's energy than 100% of my own." Right.
I want to join a team of leaders that are recruiting because I'm going to bring my two people, and my people are going to bring their two people. But then you've got the overflow, you have an opportunity now to gain the advantage of your upline's recruiting ability, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it really does, actually. That's fascinating. When you were saying that all binaries are not created equally as well, I guess compared to what you just said right there, could you show what a bad binary would look like?
Well, I hesitate to step into that because there's a lot of people that make extraordinary incomes in uni-levels and extraordinary incomes at what I would consider a bad binary. There's good binaries and there's, let's say, better binaries, right?
Sure.
So I look for best in class, and there's a series of things that are qualifiers that will tell me, is this a good deal, or isn't it? You know, honestly, I'm going to step aside for a second, you guys. Look, you don't do this business by yourself, and part of when I lead people, I tell them, "Look, you're a sum total of the five people that most influence you. Who are the five people that surround you?"
My life is no different. I've got very good leaders around me that I consult with, and so when we look at a comp plan, I don't look at it by myself? I get my business partners to pick it apart as well because I'll only see certain deficiencies, but I've got guys that they break it down, and they go, "Look, here's why it'll succeed, and here's why it won't." So I don't just rely on my own ability to analyze. I've got strong partners around me, and each of you should do that. Who are your upline, your upline's leadership, and the downline, the people that you're attracting into your business? You have to surround yourself with strong people, and that's a business acumen issue that's not just MLM; it's good business.
Now, you've completely opened my eyes to more of these; the way you run the business, it's fascinating. Even the fact that you said, "I have a business card. Why don't you have your own business card to hand out to everyone?" You run it really cool, man. It's like so awesome.
I don't have a business card because I want my people to trust me. As a leader, if you lose trust, you lose everything. And so when I go into and speak, I'll speak in front of rooms of 20 people and 2,000 people, but what happens is people come up to me and they say, "Hey, John, I want to join your team. I want to be part of your deal," or, "Do you have a business card so I can contact you?" I'm not there to recruit my people's people. The only way you get ahold of me is really through one of my leaders. So I don't have a business card because I'm not looking to recruit anybody.
The other thing is what I've learned in the business as well is even if I come across a cold prospect on an airplane, if I give them my business card, I have a 100% chance of them never calling me. They just don't follow up. But if I say, "You know what? I don't have a card, but let me get your number, and I'll follow up with you," now I've taken control of the relationship. It's amazing how I always have a chance to follow up with them if I don't give them a business card.
So it's part of a business practice, but it's also a part of my leadership where I don't want people thinking I'm going to cross-recruit their people. I work for them, and when I'm in one of their business meetings, then you can always contact me through them. If they want to give out my phone number, they can, but I really ... That brings up kind of another subject that you ... I'm going to keep rambling here because-
No. I love it. Keep going.
... what happens is as you build these teams, I've only recruited best effort between 30 and 40 people in any network marketing company I've ever been in because once you start building a team, I start working from my downline, so when I go into your home, I meet your 20 people. Guess what? There's two or three of them that want me to help them build their business, and I meet their 20 people.
So the masses that I've created, I've done one person at a time, partnering with them and building their business. So I don't have to recruit a lot of people personally. All I have to do is be a leader and work with my downline. And the masses will come if you do that.
Yeah, it's great. It's absolutely great, and so if you go out and you have that servant leader attitude obviously that we've been talking about, and ... Anyway, I'm taking huge notes right now, just so you know, and I'm drawing circles around all of the key pieces and putting it together because this is really awesome. I hope all you guys listening are doing that to. I do that for everyone of the people I interview, but this is really, really interesting.
So if I'm brand new in MLM, brand-spanking new, or, say, I just joined a new one, or whatever, what would you think, what are the first key pieces you'd have me do as a new person into an MLM? Let's say it's in the chosen one you like where there's a binary with it, there's autoship. All the pieces are in play. What would my roles be?
I would seek as fast as I can all of who's in my upline and who the leaders are, because the upline leaders are waiting for their phone to ring with their downline because they want to work with them and they want to help build the business. You might as well leverage their experience because I guarantee your two friends that you bring in, they don't know anything more about the company than you do. So the closer you can get to your upline leadership, the better that it is.
I'll tell you what I wish. Here's what I wish I would've done, and for all you guys that are new to the business, I wish when I was out of college I would've gone and looked in ... The DSA today, there's about 20 to 22 legacy companies do over $1 billion. We're in an industry that does $130 billion globally. There's about 20 companies that actually do over $1 billion, but I wish that I would've found a product that I really liked and believed in and then joined the legacy company, for a couple reasons: because then I would've learned the successful tactics and strategies of a network marketing company, and I would've got connected to leaders in the industry because if you think that five years from now somebody's not going to come up with the latest and greatest something and turn it into a network marketing company, you're wrong.
The relationships that you build will sustain you throughout your career. So I wish I would've just gotten involved in really good companies, and learned sound principles, and met amazing leaders because that's what network marketing is about; it's about connecting great leaders. So any of your listeners, go find a good company and get involved with them, not because you ... I hope that you spend the next 20 years with them, but you probably won't because the truth is when you're looking for a good network marketing opportunity, the one thing that I cannot teach or coach you is something called timing.
The timing it in those companies honestly was 20 years ago when they started, right? Now you're not going to create ... It would be a rare person, you know, somebody probably will prove me wrong, but the average person isn't probably going to get in there and create an extraordinary six-figure income become they've had their run. So I want to look for a company that's been around for a couple of years. They've got their groundwork underneath them. They're doing $40 to $50 million a year, and they haven't hit momentum. The key is pre-momentum, and you'll get that in the Harvard Business Study Review when you read it. You want a company pre-momentum so that you're the one that is building the legacy income.
When they do $1 billion, you help them grow from $50 million to $1 billion. So that's what you look for is timing. That's the one thing that you can't teach or coach is to be at the right place at the right time.
That's interesting. Do you have any tips for on how you find a company that's pre-momentum?
Very difficult it's you got to keep your ears open and be connected to a lot of people, which is why I said, you know, if I was ... A great opportunity for even college kids, I think every college kid, the skills that you learn in network marketing will carry you through the rest of your life, and so go out and find a good company that you believe in the product, and get involved, and learn how to create these residual incomes because it's those people that you meet that are going to introduce you to the next big run.
Yeah, and I appreciate it. That's the advice you said if I was brand new. First know the leaders. Know your upline. I never took time to do that my first round at it. Then I joined one seriously just because my buddy was in it. It's the exact opposite of what you just said I should do. Went into that four years ago. Pretty much every entrepreneur I know is out there, whether or not they'll admit it, has been part of an MLM. And it's such an awesome career. It's a great place to go to, but the problem why, the reason obviously why a lot of people have bad taste in their mouth is because some over-eager upline person turned around and badgered their family, and badgered the friends, and honestly hurt some relationships.
So how do you actually recruit, how do you get to getting leads in this industry without actually hurting those relationships. You know what I'm trying to ask? That was poorly worded, but ...
So what happens, oftentimes people get in these network marketing opportunities, they look at it as a get-rich-quick scheme, right, like, "How can I make money off of you and your friends?" Then they get disappointed because that mindset fails them. It's really not the servant leader model. So when I talk to people who have been hurt by network marketing, and we've all been in a marketing company, it didn't work out for lots of reasons. But I always tell them, Zig Ziglar I think said it best. He said, "Give enough people, or create enough people, or create enough opportunity for people and give them what they want, you'll end up getting what you want."
So what I've learned in network marketing, especially if I've dealt with someone with experience, I'll say, "What are the things that your upline didn't do for you?" I teach them to be the upline that they wish they had, and so people resonate with that. They realize, "You know what? If I do the things for my downline that I wish my upline had done for me, I'll create extraordinary success." Again, that's that leadership model of leading by example and not being a cheerleader.
I'm going to get in there and do the hard work with them because together we can do great things, so that's really what I try to get people to focus on when they have bad experiences in network marketing is, "Hey, lets you and I be the leadership team for your downline that you wish you had." So be the upline that you wish you had is my best practice.
I appreciate that answer. I actually very strongly do believe in an element of business karma, and if you go around, and you start trying to help people, and you put out legitimate value out there, it may not happen all at once. There's got to be this mentality of dropping your anchor and not moving forward for awhile. It's not a get-rich-quick thing. But eventually you do get what you'd like, and it'll come and almost be surprising overnight, just kind of show up. That's great.
What people don't realize, that you attract what you put out there, so if you don't like what you're getting, take a step back and look at what you're putting out.
I guess, do you have any last pieces of advice for someone who, let's say they are in one. They like the product. There's not really a whole lot moving along. What should someone be involved in daily, those tasks, those rituals that keep them engaged in the process?
The biggest thing that I can do for each one of your listeners is, you guys, take a deep breath and look in the mirror because the number one quality that drives my business overall is a belief in yourself. You have to believe in yourself. So find a company with integrity, with a great product and a good comp plan, but then look in the mirror and go, "You know what? You are at the right place at the right time. You were chosen for this opportunity," and go get it because I can't stop a person that 100% rock solid belief. They will go out and break every barrier out there if they just believe. As a leader, most often all I do is get people to see that they have everything that they need to succeed. They just have to believe and go do it.
Very enlightening, very fascinating. I appreciate that a lot. Now, you've obviously mentioned you don't have a business card, and you work with the people directly under you. If people wanted to reach out, or learn more about what it is you're doing, or some kind of action follow-up after this podcast, where should people go or what should people do?
Well, Steven, I totally appreciate and respect you, and I'm glad that you invited me to be on your broadcast. This, for me, was really a favor to you. It wasn't an opportunity for me to recruit. I don't think I'm that great anyway, but-
Lies.
... I think that if you find out who I am and what I'm in, and you want to get involved, I would say embrace a local leader in your local market that's on my team. That's great. I'm not here to recruit people. I'm just here to support, so if they want to reach out to you, you know how to get ahold of me. So let's work it that way.
Sounds good. We'll do it that way. Awesome. Jon, thank you so much. I appreciate that. This has been fantastic.
It's my absolute pleasure, and I look forward to working with you in the future. I'll tell you something: In life, when you get two people, I love the mastermind principle, and you get two people, it creates a third more powerful mind, and you can change the world getting two people committed, and believing in themselves, and moving in the right direction. So I thank you, Steven, for what you bring to the table and your commitment to success.
Hey, thanks for listening. Please remember to subscribe and leave feedback. Would you like me to teach your own downline five simple MLM recruiting tips for free? If so, go download your free MLM Masters Pack by subscribing to this podcast at secretmlmhacksradio.com.
