This episode is a bonus cross-post of my conversation about Sentientism with Josh Milburn on his Knowing Animals podcast, founded by the late and much loved Siobhan O'Sullivan, as part of their Protecting Animals series.

Make sure you subscribe to Knowing Animals wherever you listen. Of course Josh has also been my guest on Sentientism back in episode 50. You can find it here on the Sentientism YouTube (don't forget to subscribe and click the bell!) and here on the Sentientism Podcast.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what (and who) matters?”

The Sentientism worldview answers those questions with a commitment to "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings."

Find out more at ⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Delci is an animal protection lawyer, scholar, teacher and programme builder. She is an associate professor of law and Director & Founder of the Animal Law and Policy Institute at Vermont Law and Graduate School. The Institute is committed to training animal advocacy leaders (e.g. masters degrees and programmes, Farmed Animal Advocacy Clinic) and serving as a resource hub.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

- Elan Abrell episode

02:30 Delci's Intro

- A non-traditional path, straddling academic & activism

- Pragmatic idealism "I was there to help animals"

05:38 What's Real?

- "My mom grew up in a fundamentalist, fear-based #cult"

- "She really didn't want us to experience that - so we didn't go to church at all"

- Mom still had strong religious beliefs "but she didn't force them on us", #agnostic dad

- "I grew up... naturalistic and being critically minded and making decisions based on what I observed in the world"

- "I probably have disappointed my mum in that I'm an #atheist"

- "I was just born argumentative... always pushing back and asking questions"

- Hearing about the trauma of family because of the cult "it gave me a critical lens on religion... what is the agenda here? Who is

- "I've always had a really strong moral compass... why would someone in a position of authority create terror and suffering in

- "I do have a tremendous respect for evolution... for systems that have evolved over millennia"

- #meditation & secular #buddhism "There is a whole lot we don't know"

12:19 What Matters?

- "For as long as I can remember  have had a very strong moral compass that is not based on any external... religious document... fear of punishment..."

- "Just a deep sense of #justice in my core... and as sense of needing to speak up about that"

- Shyness, social anxiety "but there are times when something just bubbles up in me and I need to speak out... do something about it"

- Featuring in #OphrahWinfrey 's "O" magazine as "The Crusader"

- "I have this very strong conviction of what's right and wrong"

- "Fairness... not causing unnecessary suffering"

- Being pragmatic, so considering specific situations but "informed by an overlay"

- Authoritarianism, harming others for profit, lacking transparency

 16:29 Who Matters?

- A traumatic experience at 14 yrs. Raising two pigs from birth as companions then "they were unexpectedly slaughtered"

- "I loved animals before then... but that really set me on a journey... I just started reading about factory farming, animal rights... Peter Singer's Animal Liberation"

- Ep: 156 with Peter Singer

-  "It resonated with me very much that sentience mattered... that has been a fundamental touch-point for me... I've added complications to it over the years"

- Precautionary principle re: assessing sentience

- "My focus tends to be on individuals & sentience... overlaid with a respect for systems... and interconnectedness"

- "I loved eating meat and didn't really think about the connections to animals"

- "It was a huge wake-up call for me... I felt like I had been living a lie... I had been betrayed... there was all of this awfulness & corruption in the world that I had been totally unaware of"

A Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Jo-Anne McArthur is a photojournalist, public speaker, animal rights activist and author. She is best known for her We Animals Media project, a media agency and photography project documenting human relationships with animals. Jo-Anne offers presentations about human relationships with animals in educational and other environments and provides photographs and other media for those working to help animals.

Jo-Anne was the primary subject of the 2013 documentary The Ghosts in Our Machine, directed by Liz Marshall, and with Keri Cronin, she is the founder of the Unbound Project, which aims to celebrate and recognize women animal activists. Her first book, We Animals, was published in 2013; her second, Captive, was published in 2017; and a third, Hidden, which featured a foreword by Joaquin Phoenix, was published in 2020. Jo-Anne has been awarded a range of commendations for her photography and activism, including several commendations in the Wildlife Photographer of the Year awards and joint first place in the COP26 photography competition.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

2:23 Jo's Intro

- Striving to be open, active, helping, empathic, compassionate, humble

- Founding We Animals Media "What was once me with camera is now me & 15 staff & over 100 contributing photographers globally"

- "My own ethos about being generous in the world"

3:57 What's Real?

- #catholic background but not very religious family

- "Know the stories, know the moralistic tales... which are largely quite good & translate across many religions... do unto others... take care of one another"

- "I am personally #atheist / #agnostic atheist... I do have a very #spiritual sense of the world... did I just contradict myself? I don't think so."

- "Everything is interconnected... I am from the earth and will go back to the earth."

- "It's a beautiful system this earth has evolved over billions of years... I am in awe of that."

- "If I have a spiritual leaning it's towards reference for the earth"

- "My dad commented... I seemed like an earth worshipper... indigenous ideology? pagan ideology?"

- "I go through the world in awe of what is around me"

- "You protect what you love... I do love the plants... trees, birds in the trees & the old dog I adopted & other people..."

- "Perhaps that reverence has led me to be a full time activist for others"

- "There were no clashes (with supernatural religious beliefs)... it just seemed to me that the scientific experiment is what holds truest to me... how biology works... how the cosmos works... I just gravitated towards that"

- "3 of my 4 parents are very religious now... we don't talk about it very much because we disagree on some major things"

- "They feel that I will go to hell if I don't find Jesus so they pray for me... yet we have a gorgeous, wonderful, close relationship"

- "We disagree on these things but we can still love one another"

- "It was quite a religion free zone at my house. I was free to develop my worldviews."

- "My parents guided me but also took a back seat to the things that were apparently precious to me... protecting others"

14:22 What & Who Matters?

34:42 A Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Varda Mehrotra is an animal advocate and movement builder, exploring intersectional solutions. Most recently, she founded Samayu to undertake intersectional work and apply a systems approach for issues surrounding justice and animals in food systems. Under her decade-long leadership, FIAPO - India’s federation for animal organisations - was recognized as one of the most effective animal charities. She has spearheaded several large-scale undercover investigations, campaigns for farmed animals, companion animals and wild animals and was the architect of India’s largest plant-based advocacy network which has created many animal advocate leaders in the country. Prior to that, she spent several years organising within the grassroots animal advocacy movement in Scotland.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:41 Varda's Intro

- "An activist first"

- Scotland, India, US

- Advocating for farmed, wild, companion animals

- Policy work, mobilisation, vegan advocacy, corporate engagement

- Intersectional thinking "in practice" "a bigger picture approach... correcting the omission of animal interests in the broader discourse around our planetary crisis

- Co-founding Samayu "working with the inter-linkages" https://samayu.org/

3:45 What's Real?

- A Hindu religious upbringing

- "All our holidays were spent in the forest... the value of the natural world... you hold it in wonder"

- Mum researched Buddhist philosophy "a lot of Buddhist concepts mixed in [with traditional Hinduism]"

- As a rebellious teenager "I was a staunch atheist for a while... Now the question of atheism has almost disappeared... ceased to matter"

- "I just didn't see any evidence... there was just no way I could relate to faith on its own... and the dogmatic side of religion... that I still strongly disagree with. I wasn't convinced then and I'm not convinced now."

- "My worldview has shifted - I don't believe in the single or multiple male gods"

- "I just identify as a nothingist"

- "That was one of the many things I was talking about doing differently... at a very young age I said 'I'm not OK doing that' [eating meat]"

- "Exploring modalities... #meditation, #yoga... evidence for a general sense of connection... empathy... acknowledging everything is interconnected"

- "I don't think there is anything 'greater than'... but certainly there is a fundamental interconnection that goes beyond transactional relationships... that grounds me."

- Naturalistic and supernatural versions of #spirituality

- The ethical risks of spiritual, supernatural & religious worldviews (#cults #alternativemedicine harsh punishments, authoritarianism...) "There's a huge difference if they are taking actions from those beliefs or not."

- "Buddhist monasteries are still serving meat and dairy"

- "Any belief system can easily become dogmatic"

- "Spirituality can be equally dark... as organised religion"

21:30 What & Who Matters?

- "Everybody matters... all human and non-human beings matter"

- "Each of us are on our journey to be able to put that into action"

- "Sentience is the scientific basis of including beings in our moral compass"

- "Looking at nature... and including that... within that moral compass"

- "Intrinsic value... Every animal exists with his or her own interests"

33:23 Making a Better World

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Nicolas is Associate Professor of Philosophy and Environmental Studies at the New College of Florida. In Fall 2023, he will join the College of Charleston as Assistant Professor of Philosophy.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:55 Nico's Intro

- Philosophy PhD in France (the moral status of animals - a #relational theory)

- PostDoc @nyuanimalstudies2689

- Chicago Uni Law School w/ #MarthaNussbaum

- Asst. Prof @NewCollegeofFL

- #Vegan, dad, runner

03:17 What's Real?

- "I'm a pretty strong naturalist"

- A non-religious family - #protestant parents "a minority in France & in Belgium"

- Religion classes in Belgium: Segregated into #Catholic, Protestant & "the others"

- Father's ethos: "Self discipline, a sense of integrity... and he hated the Pope... but he didn't really believe in god... some higher order of things that he was not sure about... an #agnostic more than a #theist "

- No particular revelation, but didn't believe in god after 12-13 yrs old

- "A strong distrust of religious authorities"

- Studying philosophy, drawn to #spinoza and #nietzsche

- "#nietzsche has really stuck with me"

- As a pre-teen "I remember thinking... nasty things about god then feeling very guilty..."

- "The world just made more sense for me without a supernatural entity that would be its creator & legislator"

- There's so much we don't understand... because of a strong commitment to epistemic humility... I'm not in the habit of ruling out a priori the existence of things that we think don't fit the current worldview. That being said... I don't believe in a god... supernatural entities... ghosts."

- #Meditation & #psychedelics "I think there is such a thing as mystical experiences but... don't reveal really anything that is possibly hidden from a broadly naturalistic understanding of the world"

- "The naturalistic framework makes you enquire about the world... in constant revision"

11:15 What Matters?

- "Anti-realist on many issues... I'm not a moral realist"

- "I don't think there are real mind-independent facts about morality"

- "A Protestant integrity"

- "I grew up with #punkrock... gave rise to some of my commitments with respect to #animalrights "

- Talking about #anarchism with dad: "I disagree with them politically... but some of the most moral people I've ever met are anarchists"

- "Whether or not you believe in god... you can still have a commitment to right & wrong"

- "What I think I took from punk rock & in part from Nietzsche... is that people come up with their own values... and have to get along somehow."

- "There's room for moral talk - I wouldn't be an ethicist otherwise"

- If anything is going to be right or wrong... it's going to be... the result of some form of constructive/deliberative/expressive process"

- "Of course I was tempted by #nihilism" & #relativism

- Having a "robust commitment to justice" while rejecting hierarchy/authority is arguably more moral? (why dad respected anarchists)

- "Nihilism was the big worry for Nietzsche at the end of the 19th Century"

- "Some values are worth promoting but we have to think about which values... but they don't have a bedrock that's independent"

- Even without moral realism we have "tools to criticise other communities' moralities"

- Descriptive vs. normative assessments

29:53 Who Matters?

1:15:11 Making a Better World?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Walter is an inter-disciplinary philosopher. He works primarily on the Philosophy of Cognitive and Biological Sciences, the Philosophy of Mind, Applied Ethics and particularly in the intersections of those fields. Much of his recent work has focused on animal minds, welfare, and ethics, as well as evolution. His new book ‘A Philosophy for the Science of Animal Consciousness‘ integrates this research into a coherent whole. It is being launched today (16th June) with Routledge.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Taster clips!

01:02 Welcome

02:22 Book Launch: A Philosophy for the Science of Animal Consciousness

03:40 Walter's Intro

- Peter Godfrey-Smith & Paul Griffiths

- Heather Browning

- "An evolutionary, non-anthropocentric approach"

- "A lot of the denial of pain [e.g. fish, crustaceans, octopuses] has rested on a very #anthropocentric position"

- Some animals have different eyes vs. humans but that doesn't mean they can't see. The same applies re: the architectures underpinning consciousness

- "what animal lives are like... what kinds of subjective experiences would be useful for them to have from a #Darwinian perspective"

- Studying consciousness "as a natural phenomenon... rather than... as a human phenomenon"

- Did human social contexts (barter, trade, co-operation, agreements) lead to us having more abstract cognitive facilities?

- Modern discoveries re: advanced cognitive and social capabilities in non-human animals (e.g. corvids, octopuses)

10:53 A Darwinian Perspective

- Daniel Dennett "Complexity matters - but what kind of compexity"

- IIT & HigherOrderTheory

- Brain hemispheres operating more independently. Two separate streams of experience?

- Theories of consciousness that are untestable or fail to make predictions

- Panpsychism, illusionism

- "The Darwinian bottleneck"

- "Philosophers very rarely ask the question 'where does the mind come from?'"

- "In order to understand how it works we'll need to understand why it evolved"

- "We can only understand what consciousness is by understanding how it evolved"

- Evolution & development processes

- Epiphenomena

- Marian Dawkins

- "This attitude that anything goes in the literature... it doesn't seem like we're making any progress... we're just creating new outlandish views without having any means of trying to filter them out... like panpsychism"

- JW: "It's very common for people to say 'we know nothing about consciousness' which I find a bizarre statement"

- "We've made so much scientific progress"

- "There are some mental properties that are unique to humans but it's very unclear those are the ones that matter for moral purposes"

20:31 The Origins of Sentience & Consciousness

- "It is adaptationist... very complex phenomena don't just appear out of nowhere... They almost always have a functional role. They're not just spandrels..."

- "Consciousness is just far to complex and evolutionarily fine tuned for that to happen"

- "In our own experience we can see how well it helps us... even if it sometimes can misfire"

- The mistaken view that consciousness must be sharp-edged & binary, on or off

- "If you can't explain how it can gradually come into existence you must believe that it has always been there" #panpsychism

- Wanting to apply crisp well bounded concepts (baldness, life, health, consciousness) to a messy reality

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Anita is Executive Director of the Plant Based Treaty initiative and the Animal Save Movement, a worldwide network of Save groups bearing witness to farmed animals & promoting veganism & love-based, grassroots activism. She describes herself as an animal rights and an environmental activist. She is the co-author of the book "The Secret Lives of Pigs".

Nicola is Director of Communications for the Plant Based Treaty initiative and works on the Animal Save Movement's communications team. She has over 20 years of experience in pressure campaigning in the UK.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

02:22 What's Real?

- NH:

- Raised #atheist with strong values & morals "be open-minded & critical & follow my heart & dreams... encouraged to find my own way." "My journey to #veganism has led me to question everything."

- Being told a cow is "beef"... "I was horrified". "You'll have to eat it or you'll die... we only eat the animals when they die of old age... no harm done."

- Becoming #vegetarian then #vegan... breaking the brainwashing

- #Punk, #hardcore & DIY "You can't go to a punk gig without coming hope with some pamphlets." Moby's Punk Rock Vegan Movie

- #Paganism & earth based religions

- Grounded in own experiences (e.g. taking people on excursions to chicken farms & bearing witness)

AK:

- Dogmatic #Catholic household "my journey was always trying to rebell against that... it didn't seem very authentic... the same performance every week... I didn't find it interesting or convincing"

- Parents from the former Yugoslavia

- Seeing "The Animals Film"

- Discovering #CarlSagan and #Cosmos "that rang true with me"

- Rejecting the sexism / discrimination often found in #christianity

- "We had very different worldviews from my parents"

- "I sort of like to think that animals have souls" #leotolstoy 's "Calendar of Wisdom"

- "Treat others as you'd like to be treated... we all know it applies to animals... also love thy neighbour... they're universal principles... if there's life on another planet... they apply"

- "I don't believe in the dogma of religion... or miracles... but there's something very special about life"

19:26 What & Who Matters?

AK:

- Regan Russell's Anglican upbringing

- "It wasn't difficult to move away from the [Catholic] world that I was living in"

- Peace & conflict studies, environmentalism, animal ethics at university

- "I was human centric... it didn't even occur to me to think about other animals"

- "When I saw the [Animals] film... it completely changed my world-view... it became a core value for me"

- #feminism & animal agriculture

- Studying environmental thought: "Does a tree have standing, does the Grand Canyon matter?... it opened my world"

- Going beyond sentience. Protecting trees for their own sake "Nature is incredible - it's such a gift... trees and this forest have rights in and of themselves - they're not just a utility to us or animals or sentients"

- "Sentience is absolutely important"

NH:

- A human-centred upbringing but "my mum used to take me over to the animal rights stalls... sign the petitions against fox-hunting & fur..."

- Family time in nature

- "The Hidden Life of Trees" - "It's blown my mind... they work as a community... you want to protect them"

- "I do absolutely extend my moral scope to the environment around us - we are all connected"

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Peter Singer is often referred to as the “world’s most influential living philosopher.” He is the Ira W. DeCamp Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University. He specialises in applied ethics, approaching the subject from a secular, naturalistic, utilitarian perspective. He wrote the books "Animal Liberation", Why Vegan? and "Animal Liberation Now!" (launched on the same day as this episode! - speaking tour here), in which he argues against speciesism and for a shift to plant-based food systems and veganism. He also wrote the essay "Famine, Affluence, and Morality" and the books "The Life You Can Save" & "The Most Good You Can Do" which argue for effective altruism - using evidence & reasoning to do the most good we can for all sentient beings both human and not. In 2004 Peter was recognised as the Australian Humanist of the Year by the Council of Australian Humanist Societies. In 2005, the Sydney Morning Herald placed him among Australia's ten most influential public intellectuals. Singer is a cofounder of Animals Australia & the founder of The Life You Can Save.In 2021 he received the Berggruen Prize for Philosophy and Culture. Peter donated the $1 million prize money to the most effective organizations working to assist people in extreme poverty and to reduce the suffering of animals in factory farms.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

- Animal Liberation Now! - why now?

- Sentientism's links to ancient naturalistic, sentiocentric themes of thought & Peter's work

- Sentientism's 1) naturalism, 2) sentiocentrism & ethical pluralism, 3) implications of not needlessly harming or killing

- "What needlessly killing amounts to... is a question... that could have a lot of discussion"

- "In terms of what really matters in itself I agree that Sentientism is the right view"

- The challenges of the words speciesism & sentientism - too many syllables!

- Peter's entry on our "I'm a Sentientist" wall

06:12 What's Real?

- Non-religious Jewish parents "they came to Australia as refugees from the Nazis, leaving Austria"

- Mother "a fervent agnostic... there isn't reason to believe in a god or a supernatural being or life after death"

- "In some parts of the United States it's almost necessary to belong to a religion to have a community"

- Rabbi cousin in Mobile, Alabama "When I say god I mean whatever it is in the universe that is a force for good... (e.g. some human beings)"

- "I kind of thought of them as fairy stories"

- Childhood meeting with Catholic kids "don't ask him any more questions - he'll only blacken his soul & go to hell... I wasn't in the least frightened"

- Negative aspects of religions: Religious wars & "very often a conservative force against what I see as progressive reforms"

- "If there were no religious teachings against #abortion I don't think the US would be divided over the issue"

- Why religious organisations get social licence to continue #sexism , #homophobia , #transphobia

- "[Religious] teachings about sex which have been a very negative influence... making people feel guilty"

- Previous guest Lisa Kemmerer

26:25 What Matters?

38:58 Who Matters?

01:10:05 How Can We Make A Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Michael is head of philosophy at the University of Liverpool. His current work spans transhumanism, death & meaning. He has written a vast range of topics, including on whether non-human animals can have meaningful lives & "What It Is Like to Be a Bot". He says of his work: "As a philosopher, I am a generalist, which is a nice way of saying that I have done many different things & I am not really an expert on anything in particular."

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:42 Michael's Intro

- What it means to be human, to live a good life, a meaningful life

- Transhumanism & human enhancement

- Meaning & life & death

- When dealing with foundational, broad questions: "It is very difficult to be precise... I hardly ever feel that 'now I've got it'"

06:06 What's Real?

- "It's much easier to point at something & disuss whether that is real"

- "If you can name something then in some sense it must be real"

- Raised #Christian & sent to Sunday school & Bible classes & regular confessions to the village priest

- "I sort of believed there was a god when I was little"

- A god watching me "a means of controlling me... Big Brother in heaven... it was just oppressive... a punishing god, a critical god"

- "I didn't feel the presence... I just believed that there was something because I was told there was something"

- "Very quickly I dropped my religious beliefs... as soon as I started to think for myself I became an #atheist"

- "It just faded away... it was always superficial"

- "Some people take me for a Christian because I share some of the intuitions religious believers have"

- "I'm not entirely comfortable with calling myself a naturalist although I don't believe in anything supernatural"

- "Naturalism is also very programmatic & ideological"

- "There are a lot of things in this world that we cannot understand...& some naturalists are very confident that we can understand everything & that's there's no mystery... there is a lot of mystery."

- Max More's #transhumanism ... pits science vs. religion

- Origins of the universe & life & consciousness "we don't know!" Science might figure it out - it might not

- "... whatever there is is part of nature"

- Over-confidence vs. humility

- The subjective & the objective

- Plato & Parmenides: "being is more real than becoming"... "but we live in a world of becoming... how can that be less real?"

- The "normative use of reality"... to "declare something else as not real... a term to deny something else its reality"

- The denial of animal suffering "not so common any more" & the #cartesian model

- "If you see an animal in pain you know it is in pain... it takes a lot of willful blindness not to acknowledge..."

- "If we assume the world is good & we see all the apparent suffering... then it cannot be... A moral reason behind denying the suffering of animals"

- JW "An echo of a religious mode of thought that's then re-built in a humanist mode of thought"

- "If we have evolved naturally... there's no reason to assume our brains are capable of understanding the universe... what possible use can it have?"

- "A naturalistic perspective should actually teach us humility"

29:03 What Matters?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Elan is a cultural anthropologist focusing on human-animal interactions, environmental justice, and food politics. He is assistant professor of the practice in environmental studies and coordinator of the animal studies minor at Wesleyan University. He is the author of the Gregory Bateson Prize winning book: "Saving Animals: Multispecies Ecologies of Rescue and Care". He also contributed a chapter called "The Empty Promises of Cultured Meat" to the book "The Good it Promises, the Harm It Does: Critical Essays on Effective Altruism".

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

01:25 Elan's Intro

- Cultural anthropology and teaching animal studies "my favourite thing to teach!"

- Appearing on Knowing Animals & Our Hen House

- Working with Kathryn Gillespie

02:42 What's Real?

- Raised mostly #secular

- Dad believed in #reincarnation

- At 12yrs old becoming aware of major religions & thinking "probably none of them are right"

- "Materialist with a small 'm', empiricist with a small 'e'"

- "Probably when we die, we die... that just makes our lives more poignant & important"

- Being given a bible stories book by a #jehovahswitness "this god person is really cruel... like a villain"

- "Reassuring in a humbling kind of way... I'm a tiny part of this vast universe... we're no less important for that"

- "Mildly #agnostic... I know that I don't know"

- Not spiritual but "a certain sense of wonder"

- An #ayahuasca retreat. Most others talked of "spiritual" experiences. "I felt pretty in touch with the particles of the universe... I don't have any anthropomorphic encounters to explain I just felt deeply in touch with creation and appreciative that I'm a part of it... that went down like a lead balloon."

- Ego dissolution... "the seed of #sentience ... that I share... with other animals"

17:00 What Matters?

- #comics : "#spiderman was my favourite super-hero... with great power comes great responsibility" (vs. #judgedredd and "law and order" :) )

- "We have an obligation to help each other when we can"

- Fairness: "Some people's extra benefit isn't really worth anybody else's suffering"

- "I don't have a #utilitarianism perspective of maximising pleasure... but for each individual who experiences the world they deserve to have minimal suffering & maximal enjoyment of life"

- Understanding bad actions that may be a response to trauma or desperation - not bad ethics

- "An openness to understanding what might be motivating people even in conflicts"

- Neil Levy: "Why bad beliefs happen to good people"

- Peter Singer

- Ethical pluralism: #care/#virtue/#deontological/relational ethics as long as all sentient beings get to count "that's exactly right"

- #elonmusk & the ethics of self-driving cars "it's deeply flawed if you can take individual lives & throw them away without their consent because you think it will actually benefit more people in the long run"

- #consequentialism

- Risks of utilitarianism: aggregating, offsetting, replacement, maximisation, ends justifying means, epistemic / ethical uncertainty & risk

26:21 Who Matters?

- Beyond #anthropocentrism

- Growing up "having relationships with members of other species"

49:43 How To Make a Better Future?

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!