Service Design Show

All you want to do is run away…

Okay, so you’re standing in a boardroom overlooking a beautiful vineyard, leading a workshop for a major client, and the only thing that's going through your mind is: How do I get out of there?

This was a real moment for this episode's guest, Ben Rennie.

And it's a feeling that I think many of us can relate to, even if the setting is different (vineyards sound good though).

We’ve all heard stories of people who achieve incredible success. The entrepreneur, the athlete, the professional, only to end up feeling empty and miserable.

They had their eye on "the prize," did everything to get it, but upon achieving their goal, they end up more unhappy than before.

Well, this story is about what happens next.

Ben co-founded a design agency that, by all external measures, was a huge success.

He was working for leading brands and riding the wave.

But one day, during that exact workshop overlooking the vineyard, he had enough.

He quit his own agency.

That single decision sparked a new journey, one full of unknowns.

But one thing was certain: Ben was going to rebuild his life around work that was deeply meaningful and aligned with his core values.

He traded fossil fuel clients for partnerships with Patagonia, driven by a new manifesto that took him 15 minutes to write on a piece of paper, not days in a boardroom.

For me, Ben’s story is a powerful reminder that we need to define what success truly looks like for ourselves... before it’s too late.

So how do we define that? And what can we do to get one step closer to it every single day?

That's what we're exploring in this episode.

The message of this episode is so important, and surely not solely limited to service design.

Because when you spend your most precious possession — your time and energy — for often 40+ hours a week, it better be towards something that gives you fulfilment and pride.

The stakes are just too high.

Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!

Be well,

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to the show

04:30 What is creativity?

07:00 The price we pay

08:30 The imposter syndrome story

10:30 The two lives

13:30 A different turn

17:00 Momentum without boundaries

19:00 From profit to purpose

20:00 How Patagonia became a client

22:00 What is systemic design?

23:30 Creativity as confidence

33:30 What needs to change?

36:45 A word of advice

41:00 The accountability of design

42:30 Transition design examples

45:00 Vote with your money

50:00 A good starting point

52:30 Legacy for the next generation

54:00 Questions about creativity

57:00 Fewer experts, more curiosity

59:00 Resources

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/benrennie
• Lessons in Creativity (Book) - https://benrennie.com/collections/create/products/lessons-in-creativity
• Website: https://benrennie.com/

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What makes time go fast for you, and what makes it go slow...

It's a powerful question that might just help you find more meaning and heck, yes even more joy in your work.

We see a brighter future, but the system moves slowly. This mismatch can lead to frustration and burnout. What if the secret to creating change wasn't about the system, but about you?

In this conversation with Martha Edwards, a public sector veteran, we talk about powerful personal habits that keep her effective and optimistic.

In this episode we explore topics like:

How to find satisfaction in work that might not bear fruit for years

Why the energy you bring to a room is one of your most powerful professional tools

And how a simple practice like writing "week notes" can be a hack to recognize your small wins and give you the motivation to keep going.

This framing takes the pressure off and allows us to be kinder to ourselves, knowing we’ve contributed a piece to a larger, longer story. I'm curious if this metaphor resonate with you too.

Enjoy the episode and keep planing seeds .

Be well,

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 234

04:00 The current state of public sector design

07:30 How Systemic Uncertainty Affects Designers

08:30 From "Designer" to "Public Servant"

09:30 Finding Meaning in Government Work

12:30 How she can find herself still grateful

16:00 Big learnings: working as a creative writer

18:00 Seeing a "Parallel Universe" at UK's GDS

20:00 Avoid the "Design Colonialist" Mindset

22:30 How it shifted

23:30 government digital service to canadian government

28:30 How Sharing Work Waters the Seeds of Change

30:30 what she recommends to share

36:30 staying patient in a government organization

38:00 how do we navigate that?

43:30 Exercise to Recognize Your "Small" Wins

45:15 Being flexible with your role in the public service industry

48:30 How to Make Smart Compromises

54:30 Finding Your Joy

57:30 Question to ponder

59:30 Connect with Martha

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marthaedwardscan/
• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/maredwards.bsky.social
• Website: marthaedwards.ca 

Readings:

• Going beyond planting seeds
• I’m a service designer and I’ve never done co-design
• Leading with design at the Ministry of Environment
• The long slog of public service transformation - by Martin and Kara
• Barriers to Service Design in Government - Created by Linn Vizard, Marie Serrano and Spencer Beacock

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What if we’ve been led down the wrong path…

When it comes to service design, we’re often told the main goal is to break down silos. And that makes sense, right?

Our organizations are structured vertically, but the experiences we design flow horizontally. This clash creates friction, so the natural instinct is to declare war on silos.

But what if that’s sending us in the wrong direction?

Silos exist for a reason; they bring focus and efficiency to specific tasks. The real problem is often the broken connection between them. So, what if instead of trying to eliminate silos, we focused on repairing them?

In this episode, I talk with Ellen Pittman, a researcher who shares a fascinating case study from a high-stakes organization struggling to meet a critical, time-sensitive performance target. On the surface, the pressure was on a single department to solve it.

But as they dug deeper, they discovered the true bottleneck wasn't in that department at all, or even on the organizational chart. The real roadblocks were less visible and far more human.

So what does it take to overcome these hidden barriers?

Ellen found a specific mix of ingredients that allowed them to collaborate across team boundaries and address the issue with great success.

In our conversation, we explore what those ingredients are and why it seems so hard for most organizations to get them right.

This episode has the potential to reframe your thoughts on silos, leadership, and the roadblocks you think are in your way.

A theme that I really loved exploring was how easily organizational metrics can be "gamed". We've all seen it, you hit the target but miss the actual goal... we talk about antidote in the episode.

Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact.

Be well,

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 233

05:00 Vertical vs. Horizontal Structures

06:00 Ellen's Journey into Healthcare Change

07:30 Hospital Case Study

10:30 Real Challenge: System-Wide Impact

12:30 Breaking Silos: A Hospital's Approach

15:30 Leadership Beyond KPIs: True Purpose

23:30 Top-Down Initative, Bottom-Up Ownership

25:30 The Consultant's Fear of ED Patients

27:45 Overcoming Fear with Data Experiments

30:00 Data as Curiosity, Not Blame

35:30The CEO's Risky Vulnerability

39:30 Leadership Flexibility: When to Take Control

44:30 Repairing Silos vs. Breaking Them

45:30 Overcoming Jadedness

48:30 Reconnecting to Shared Purpose

52:30 Principles Etched in Minds, Not Walls

55:30 Why Cultural Change Takes Time

59:00 Insulating Change at Every Level

1:01:00 Leaders & The System: Mutual Understanding

1:04:00 Alan's Book: The Hive Model of Fluidity

1:07:45 Question to Ponder

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-ellen-pittman-27311421a/

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Everyone wants change, just not for themselves…

I remember a great experiment we used to do back in my agency days.

At the start of a workshop, we'd ask everyone to put on a prop.

It could be a hat, a pair of oversized glasses, or even a superhero cape. After some initial laughter, everyone usually played along.

But the interesting part wasn't putting the props on. It was what happened in the minutes that followed.

As we started the "official" program, the first person would quietly take their prop off.

Then a second would follow, and so on. At no point had I instructed them to stop wearing the props, yet, one by one, they always did.

It was a powerful way to confront the group with the strong pull towards conformity.

Towards the default mode of doing things. Towards getting back in line.

As service design professionals, we know that to create meaningful change, we have to challenge the way things are currently done.

But doing anything outside the status quo is inherently risky, especially when the incentive structures in our organizations are set up to reward those who play it safe.

To break free, you need a magic ingredient: courage.

But how do you build this courage?

And why would you risk your career when it’s so much easier to conform?

Those are the big questions we explore in a fascinating conversation with Alberta Soranzo. As you'll hear, Alberta has lived these questions.

She shares powerful stories about what it takes to create change.

From convincing a client to choose a risky, unknown path over the safe bet, to the surprisingly profound impact of a personal choice about her own hair.

We also get into what it really means for leaders to provide ‘air cover’ for their teams and how you can find the courage to challenge the system even when you feel powerless — without burning yourself out in the process.

I'm confident that you’ll walk away with some unique insights from this honest conversation about leadership, courage, and taking risks.

If you've been following along with the past few episodes, I think you'll start to see a clear pattern emerging.

When multiple guests, independently of each other, touch on the same topics, it's probably something we should all be paying more attention to.

Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact.

Be well,

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 232

05:00 Why Courage is Key for Organizational Magic

09:30 Two Business Breakthroughs

15:00 The "Change" Illusion

17:30 Signals of true organizational change

22:30 What triggered the landslide

26:00 Inspiration: Oreo hair

29:00 When Leadership Means Role Modeling

32:00 Reframing Workplace Urgency

35:00 Identity Shift: Your Job Isn't Your Whole Self

39:30 Transformation of "my work does not define me, it's part of me"

44:00 vulnerable act vs the real act

46:00 Alberta's Role: Cultivating Team Excellence

49:00 Navigating Resistance

52:45 Learning from corporate rebels

53:45 The Power of organizational empathy

55:00 Empathy for the System

59:00 Courage in Future Generations

1:01:00 Struggle of helping our kids shaping the world

1:02:30 Question to ponder

1:05:00 Resources

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• LinkedIn - http://linkedin.com/in/albertasoranzo
• Website - https://albertasoranzo.com/
• BlueSky - https://bsky.app/profile/albertas.bsky.social
• Good to watch - The Playlist on Netflix

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As a service design professional, what is your primary role...!?

Are you the host who sets the table for collaboration and creates a safe space for everyone?

Or are you maybe a trusted advisor, working quietly behind the scenes to help stakeholders make better decisions?

Well, what if the answer is... both?

This tension between hosting and advising is at the heart of the latest Inside Service Design episode, in which we explore the real, unpolished practice of driving change from within organizations.

In this episode, we have a great conversation with two seasoned professionals, Seth Campbell and Phil LaDeur, who bring some honest perspectives to the table.

Phil shares how we can create the perfect conditions for collaboration and influence by drawing inspiration from the concept of "Unreasonable Hospitality".

And Seth talks about the importance of patience, humility, and the art of giving away choices to empower your team and build long-term trust.

This is one of those episodes where you get a true peek behind the curtains and hear how other service design professionals are approaching their work.

So, if you're ready to discover new ways that will help you move the needle inside your organization, this one is for you!

I'm curious, in your current role, do you feel more like a "host" or an "advisor"? Leave a comment on the episode and let me know. I'd love to hear which role resonates more with you.

Enjoy the conversation!

Be well,

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to the June Round Up

04:30 Phil's Journey to Service Design

06:45 How Seth started his role

11:00 The Challenges and what Seth actually does

13:00 Service Design in a Faith-Based Organization

17:00 Defining success in service design

20:30 Seth's Personal Success Metric

24:45 Phil: Small Wins & Feedback"

26:00 The Circle's "Dinner Table" Discussions

28:00 Hospitality as Influence (Phil)

30:00 Theatrics of Design (Seth)

35:00 Overcoming Time Blocks

37:30 Phil's "Restaurant" Framework

41:30 Seth: Hard-Earned Lessons

45:45 The Caboose of a project

46:00 Phil: Learning Organization Horizon

49:30 Investing in Relationships

51:30 Seth: Essential Service Design Skills

53:30 Secret Weapon: Snacks!

54:45 Phil: Skills for Impact

57:30 Questions for Service design professionals

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/seth-campbell/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillip-ladeur/

--- [ 3. CIRCLE ] ---

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What's the last time you did something you didn't know how to do...

For me, it was last week when I took up the idea of building custom Cornhole boards (fun and addictive sport, look it up) with my kids.

My woodworking skills are limited, at best. And that's one of the reasons I decided to take on this project.

I can tell you, now in the midst of the process, that I've already made a dozen small mistakes.

However, going out of my comfort zone and doing something for the first time is weirdly what gives me a great sense of joy and satisfaction.

Next to having my own custom Cornhole boards at the end of this project I'm sure that the skills, experience and knowledge I'll have gained will be useful somewhere further down the line.

So in my personal life, I try to create a lot of space for these types of projects. (Sometimes a bit too much space if you ask my wife.)

But what if the environment you're in is explicitly designed to stay in its comfort zone... as much as possible?

The reality is that most of the organizations we work with as service design professionals are exactly just that.

They are designed to keep things stable, controllable, and predictable.

The incentives are basically to keep doing what we've been doing, but just do it faster and cheaper.

So for us, who are in the business of experimenting and trying things out in order to drive positive change, that's a serious problem.

It's easy to become frustrated with the organization's lack of risk-taking.

Fortunately, there are more productive things that you can do instead of getting frustrated.

Yes, even in those situations where the appetite for risk-taking feels non-existent.

In this episode, we chat with ​Jen Briselli​, who's an expert at growing a learning, adaptive, and dare I say even a bit more playful mindset within organizations.

As all change starts within ourselves, we explore what you can do to increase your appetite for risk and uncertainty.

We explore ways to be more adaptable, even in systems designed to resist change.

And why breaking through some of the common roadblocks in order to be more playful might not be as hard as you think.

This is a great conversation for anyone who wants to drive change with more impact and ease. Ready to jump in?

One of the insights that stuck with me is that we have more agency than we often think to shake things up a bit inside organizations.

We're active participants in these systems, not passive bystanders, and everything we do has a ripple effect.

Enjoy and keep making a positive impact!

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to episode 231

05:00 Designing Conditions for Emergence

07:00 A Shift in Receptivity

09:00 Jen's Professional Journey & Inspirations

11:00 Jen's Unique Path

18:00 Why Systems Resist Change

24:00 Creating Space and Slack

26:00 The Nature of Adaptive Capacity

29:00 "Wedge in the Door" & "Doorknob Moments"

36:00 Observing Adaptive Behaviors

40:00 Embracing the Disorienting Dilemma

45:30 Confidence in Navigation

52:45 Play, Risk, and Surviving Existential Threats

56:30 Small Actions, Big Impact

58:30 Key Takeaway: "But Did You Die?"

1:00:00 Creative destruction

1:01:45 Reflection Question

1:02:00 Connect with Jen Briselli

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/jbriselli/
• https://www.topologyinsight.com/

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What does it take to spend more of your time creating real impact...

That's the central question we're exploring in our Journey Management Playbook series.

In the last episode, we did something pretty amazing: we took a pile of raw data and, with a click of a button, watched AI generate a structured journey map in a matter of minutes.

I'll admit even though I was a bit skeptical to start with, this felt pretty magical.

But the truth is that this first draft is just the beginning.

As you have hopefully seen, an AI-generated journey gives you an incredible head start, but it's not yet something you should bet your business on.

So, how do you move from this first draft to a decision-making tool you can truly trust? How do you make it yours?

That’s exactly where we're going in Episode 4. This is the essential next step.

Once again, Tingting and I roll up our sleeves and show you the practical, step-by-step process of:

Prioritizing what to tackle first, so you don't get overwhelmed.

Verifying AI-generated insights to build confidence.

Enriching the journey using properties to add depth.

Using filters to focus on what matters most.

As you'll see, we're now entering the areas where the power of modern AI-driven journey management truly comes alive.

There's still a lot of work for us to do, but AI allows us to focus our time on the areas where we can add the most value.

Just like in the previous episodes, we're diving deep inside TheyDo with a lot of screen sharing.

If you're listening to the podcast version, I highly recommend having the accompanying slides handy to follow along visually. You can find them in the show notes.

Take care,

~ Marc

--- [ 1. LINKS ] ---

• Playbook Slides - https://go.servicedesignshow.com/08gpl
• Sign up for TheyDo - https://www.theydo.com/service-design-show

--- [ 2. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 4

01:30 What to expect in the episode

04:00 Service Design Pitfall: Over-Perfection

05:00 TheyDo & Tingting's Introduction

09:00 Previous Episodes Recap

11:00 Diving into AI Journey Scenarios

13:00 Scenario 1: AI Journey Verification

15:00 Prioritizing Insights: Where to Start

24:00 How to verify individual AI insight

25:45 Marc's verification approach

28:00 Managing Supporting Quotes & Splits

33:00 Iterative AI Workflow & Refinement

35:30 Clarifying AI-Generated Details & Sentiment

38:00 Verifying Insight Types

40:45 Adjusting Experience Impact Score

42:30 Understanding Insight Ownership

46:00 Summary of Verification Process

47:00 Batch Editing Insights for Efficiency

49:30 The Power of Tagging & Taxonomy

51:00 Statuses: Tracking Workflow Progress

59:00 Personas: Differentiating User Experiences

1:02:30 AI & Human Collaboration: Not Obsolete

1:03:00 Groups: Engaging Different Teams

1:05:00 Tags: Global Dimensions for Insights

1:07:45 Filtering & Prioritization with Tags

1:10:45 Journey Health Score (Upcoming Feature)

1:11:32 What Makes a Healthy Journey?

1:12:00 What's Next on Episode 5

1:13:00 Audience Q&A

1:15:00 Conclusion & Looking Ahead

--- [ 3. FIND THE SHOW ON ] ---

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Let's be honest, unfortunately not many business truly cares about sustainable services...

The energy debate around AI is finally highlighting digital services' environmental impact. But every service, digital or physical, consumes resources: energy, materials, and even our time. As service designers, we have a moral obligation to design with sustainability at the core.

This episode tackles the real challenges: clients not asking, defining "sustainable," and measuring impact. Our guest, James Chudley, shares key lessons and real-world examples from his journey, showing how he integrates sustainability into daily design.

Discover what it really takes to design services that are better for customers, better for business, and better for our planet. Plus, uncover a deceptively simple design principle that guarantees more sustainable services.

Can you guess what it is? The clue is in this episode.

Keep making a positive impact on customers, business, and our planet!

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to Episode 230

05:00 How to define sustainable service

07:30 Are services sustainable?

12:00 James' unique journey

16:00 The Pivotal Decision

22:00 Integrating Sustainability

27:00 The power of minimizing

30:30 Navigating Stakeholder Talks

33:00 can we justify unsustainable services?

34:40 From Sustainable to Regenerative

35:30 Case Study: Circle Community

38:15 Non-Digital Touchpoints

39:57 Avoiding Measurement Paralysis

43:30 Adding a "Sustainability Lane" to Journey Maps

48:30 Principles

42:00 Mental energy

47:30 Community Design Principle Example

54:30 Accessibility in Sustainable Design

55:30 Sustainability as Personal Practice

57:30 the trojan horse

58:30 First Steps for Inspired Designers

1:00:90 Resources

1:02:00 Question to ponder

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

Connect with James Chudley:

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameschudley/
• http://www.jameschudley.co.uk/
• James' 'Decarbonising User Journeys' approach to help you pragmatically decarbonise your highest value user journeys
• Decarbonising User Journeys @ UXGlasgow (Talk)
• Digital Sustainability Strategy template to help you build a clear, actionable plan for how you are going to minimise the environmental impacts of your digital services
• Simple Steps You Can Take To Decarbonise Your User Journeys
• The principles for the design and delivery of greener services

Books:

• You Can't Make Money From a Dead Planet - Mark Shayler
• Designing for Sustainability - Tim Frick
• Sustainable Web Design - Tom Greenwood
• Let My People Go Surfing - Yvon Chouinard
• Decarbonise Digital - Eric Zie
• How To Avoid A Climate Disaster - Bill Gates
• The Climate Book - Greta Thunberg
• World Wide Waste - Gerry McGovern
• Climate product leaders playbook

Other Helpful Online Resources:

• https://sustainablewebdesign.org/

• https://sustainableuxnetwork.com/

• https://www.sustainablewebmanifesto.com/
• https://designdeclares.com/
• W3C Web Sustainability Guidelines
• GDS Design Principles
• GDS Service Manual
• TalktoFrank - The Government drugs advice website
• Green Web Foundation

Website Carbon Calculator

• Ecograder

• Cardamon
• Website Carbon Calculator

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Have you ever thought about...

What a therapist, a grandma, and an organ donor teach you about service design?

I know, this might sound like the start of a strange joke, but it gets to the heart of a big truth about our work.

We invest a lot of time perfecting our journey maps, blueprints, and personas.

But as we know, the challenges we work on won't be solved by a deliverable.

They're solved through invisible "tools" like subtle influence, creating space for others, and building strategic relationships.

So, where do you find these tools? Well, this episode is a great start.

This episode is part of our "Inside Service Design" series, where we explore the real, unpolished practice of driving change from within organizations.

And just like in the previous episodes you get to hear two brilliant in-house professionals, share some of their most powerful, non-traditional strategies. This time we're joined by Irina Damascan and Gina Mendolia.

Gina walks us through her concept of "Setting the Trap" for engagement, and how she draws inspiration from the roles of therapists, coaches, and even grandmas to master the art of creating space and enabling teams to connect the dots themselves.

Irina introduces a powerful model for influence she calls the "Organ Donor Chain," a strategic way to build networks of reciprocity by doing "favors" that enable change across the organization, often in unexpected ways.

I have to say, it was refreshing to hear about effective mental models that go beyond design-as-usual, which aren't just theories but truly help to design better services.

Want to add some (unconventional) tools that help you drive change to your toolkit? Grab your notebook and join us for this conversation.

What's the most unconventional place you've found inspiration for your work? Maybe a different profession, a hobby, a movie? Share your inspiration in the comments on YouTube and let's continue the conversation there.

Keep making a positive impact!

~ Marc

--- [ 1. GUIDE ] ---

00:00 Welcome to the May Round Up!

05:00 Irina's path to service design

07:45 Gina's service design journey

09:00 Gina defines success

11:00 Irina defines success

17:00 Challenges Gina tackles

19:00 Irina's service design role

24:45 Gina's dinner table session

29:30 Adding inspiration

30:30 Irina's session insights

40:30 Gina's life-simplifying tactics

45:45 In-house misconceptions

51:00 How Gina measures success

56:00 Advice for younger Irina

58:30 Irina shares an example

1:03:00 Gina's motivation

1:04:30 Questions to ponder

--- [ 2. LINKS ] ---

• https://www.linkedin.com/in/irinadamascan/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginamendolia/

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