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Today's episode is all about a very short and very powerful novel by Max Porter, Shy. In 122 pages Max Porter inhabits the mind of a very troubled teenage boy called Shy.  Nicola Ennis, my guest, and I both  have quite significant life experiences of working with children and young people think that this is probably the best insight into the mind of a troubled teenage boy that you could possibly wish to have. It is quite dark. It's also funny. It's just an incredible insight and I think there is so much to talk about in terms of how we respond to young people how we respond to young people in distress and what it takes to remain. The grown-up in a situation where a distressed young person is behaving in a way that you wish they weren't and to be honest, they wish they weren't too I really hope you're going to enjoy our conversation today.