Lacey speaks with golden sunrise collier, a multidisciplinary artist, facilitator, and radical recovery advocate. They talk about harm reduction, what the term "sober"means to them and their mutual problems with AA/12 Step. Golden shares about how isolating it can be when you don't feel like you belong in a particular recovery community and how important it is to have recovery spaces dedicated to Black, queer, trans people. He also tells us about SMART Recovery, what the program is like and what you can expect in meetings.