Spirit of the Deal

Brandon Handley 0:01 What is going on? What is going on BJJ report, start a Captain's log, all those things,

Unknown Speaker 0:10 all those things.

Unknown Speaker 0:13 We are,

Brandon Handley 0:16 in turn a fan down here, I don't want the fan all the way up, I want the Phantom swamp like, I really want that on. We are, we always have the opportunity to create or consume, create or consume. And that's usually honestly, when I decide to want to make the decision to press the record button. I asked myself, do I do I? Do I feel like consuming or do I feel like creating? And do I feel that what

Unknown Speaker 0:55 I'm feeling?

Brandon Handley 0:56 It's up to us a nice golden retriever. Do I feel like creating are consuming and no matter what really, you're always creating, if you're consuming something, you're creating some thoughts about whatever it is that you're consuming. My idea this morning was though, let's wanna share some things. What are those things that I felt like sharing this morning? It was, it was on the tip of my tongue when I when I first started and strung the mic up. And I was listening to before I even got going here I was listening to start a song from so long ago, music goes better with you. And

Unknown Speaker 1:40 I just just

Unknown Speaker 1:41 love the song.

Brandon Handley 1:45 So let's see, I don't know that I've actually got something to share or create coming out of. That's that's kind of that's what it was on to my time you see a switch? Do you let it go? And it comes right back to you. So it was this idea that I know that I've shared before I'll share it again that BJJ going to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is a part in part of my spiritual practice. It's this is that is one aspect of when I do it, that's spiritual dope for me. And I bring that up because of two things. One, I've got a friend that What's up, who has just started doing some BJJ and she's asked me herself, she goes, you know, she's only gone to a couple lessons so far. And she said, she'd said, What was it? About BJJ for you, Brandon, that that really made it something that really brought it home? What was it for you that really brought it home? And I told her I said you know big a big part of it is that when you're when you're learning it when you're beginning it. And at all times when you're when you're in it, that's one of the few times that I've been able to find myself to be 100% present and engaged. First of all, because you're trying not to die. Season theory, right? So your brain, your brain, your mind is all in the ego is at at play. And you so it's like Oh, you got my attention here he goes like all right. You got my attention. And that's especially especially in the very beginning. You're You're 100% engaged and you are in survival mode. And one of the reasons that you can only be in survival mode is because you don't know shit yet. When you're in BJJ and you're just getting started and the beauty of this is the 490 percent plus of the people that get started in BJJ they don't know shit, everybody starts from the same place. Even if you've watched it and read it, it's not the same as the actual experience. You cannot 100% intellectualized Brazilian jujitsu is not the same as having the experience. Hey, right. So you're in there and you're learning it. Everybody starts from the same place and as you're learning it You begin to put into practice the things that you're learning. So now, not only are you 100% engaged, and you're in survival mode now, because you have an idea of what is happening to you, because you have an idea of some of the expectations because you have an idea

of some of the possibilities.

Unknown Speaker 5:36 Thanks.

Brandon Handley 5:38 And a lot of times too, you've also engaged with the same partner over and over and over again, because you're practicing with people in your class. So, now you you begin to have an idea of how it's all working out. And you begin to be able to disengage the straight up survival mind the one that's freaking the fuck out being like, Oh my god, you're gonna choke? I don't know how to stop it. Oh, my God, I'm getting choked. I'm getting hurt as taptap armbar, tap, tap she, how did that happen? triangle. Come on, man, they got me in this one last time. So you began to realize, you know what's coming up, you begin to realize a either more offensive advantages that you have. And you can find and you begin to see those openings, your your awareness of the potential begins to expand. And as you see, the potential of things, like I said, start to slow down, who begins to breathe a little bit easier. And you begin to do things on purpose, with intent. And if you're hearing some of the language being used here, that you find is spirituality, you can begin to see that. That's the spiritual practice, the spiritual practices. Honestly, we all start from the same place. We all learn have different potentials from different angles from different teachers in different ways. And different schools of thought. I'm on my third school, third BJJ school. And each one has a different approach. I would not say that any one is better than the other. They all each have their own unique way of doing things, or they're different from each other. And I believe, at least as far as I can tell, each school has a different intent. And what are they? How are they training? How they want to train? How do they want to come across? What is their intent for that class? And so how else does that come across in spirituality, like the different religions, which are inspired by different teachers that have a different intent, a different intentional practice a different wave of achieving the same outcome. And I bring that up, because, you know, one of the other guys in there were joking around today. And he's bigger, stronger, faster, all the things and was the last last roll of the day. And I was looking for one more and I was like, God, anybody with you? And he's like, I was like, I was like, I'm just kidding, man. Like, I just know that, you know, whatever. You know, I was looking for some fun. He's like, We're not here for fun. Like we you know, we have we have different desired outcomes. I enjoy the physical activity I enjoy the spiritual practice is more technical, right? He's working on something different. And I get it. He's got a different desired outcome for today's practice. We have a different approach to what is happening here. But the the overarching question that Deb asked was, what is it that that really sparked in me and for me to think, think I was just, yeah, I was just rounding the corner out of my my awakening, you know, midlife crisis, awakening existential crisis, whatever you want to call it, right? I love the Self Realization foundation. It's a really great talk. And I don't know the guy's name. He's an old Swiss guy. I think he's passed away. Now he was giving a talk in the White House. I think in the 2000s, early 2000s. And what he says is, that's the reminder from God, you know that that's what you're seeking. That's that's

when when you realize that that's really what it is that you're seeking in life is that connection to God's universe, create creative source, all that the source is the source that creates worlds. That's what taps in. That's what taps in during that time.

Unknown Speaker 10:51 And

Brandon Handley 10:55 there are so many, again, different outcomes bidding was around the corner out of that, when I found Jiu Jitsu. And it wasn't until more artillery artillery thought about it as my spiritual practice. But it wasn't until that I'd heard a vedantic talk by Swami Safari, or your prayer Nanda. And he had just mentioned how, when it's a jujitsu, it's a fighting art. And when it becomes Judo, it becomes more of a spiritual practice. And I think that it was the same with like, you know, I'm making things up now, but definitely, definitely was like, you know, talking about the sword arts with qinzhou or kenjutsu, or, you know, the sword, sword arts, into kanjo becomes becomes a spiritual practice. And, for me, that that's what jujitsu is, it's a spiritual practice, it's an opportunity to also recognize and honor everybody, regardless of what belt they are, where they are along in the practice that comes in there to honor them and the effort that they put in. There is the ego. After a certain point, kind of checks out and jujitsu, checks back and everyone's won, don't get me wrong, I can't say that it's 100% checked out. But it checks out. Because you realize that you're all there for each other, you're all there to benefit one another. And you're there. As a school, and not so much as a singular unit. Yes, of course, you're there for your own good, Jessica, Portia there for your own practice. But there's a certain point where you're there. And it's because it's a school. And you're there for all the other people just like they're there for you. And I remember, I remember leaving the one day making the joke. Instead of saying, hey, thanks to everybody else. And, again, you gotta understand that I'm very tongue in cheek and just trying to have some fun. Like, you're all better today because of me. And again, tongue in cheek, but at the same time, we're all there for each other, we're all there to make each other better whether or not somebody totally dominated me. Or I got them in something, right? Because even this is this is another part of jujitsu, that even even the days that you seem to fail a lot. I just use that word, you fail, you get submitted. Those are the days that you can really learn a lot. Those are the days that you really had the opportunity understand what was your position? What was your approach? What is a way to not even necessarily avoid that? What is you know, avoided? Sure. So how can you How can you defend against it? How can you make sure that you don't get caught in that position? Again, what what are the countermeasures? So there's so much that whenever I think I still think to this day, it's one of the best things that startup in my life. I'd encourage anyone to pick it or some type of martial art. It's one of the only ones that I can think of that you know, is fully contact fully immersive and can offer this experience And the way that it does, you know, in such a way that when you leave and you're done, you're like this, you're inspired, you've got life coursing through your veins, you've accomplished, something you're working towards. Really not working towards anything except for continuous improvement. And there's still so much more that I keep going on. But so those those are some reasons that pop to mind. And they will they were inspired by questions that I was asked. Last night. I'm super excited again, for my friend Deb, who's getting started. She's feeling the love Jones and that one.

You know, she's thinking about having her son do it. Like that was another part of it, getting to do it with my children. And then today, you know, Anthony, you know, good dude, solid guy talking about you know, we don't do this for fun than I do. Right. And that's the other thing too. All of those approaches are open to you. You can go in and you can do it for any reason. Right, you can do it for fun, you can do it for competition, you can do it simply for physical therapy, you can do it for just learning yet another art anywho all those things, all those reasons are the reasons that I would recommend grabbing some BJJ for yourself. Alright, check you later.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Award-winning author Christian de la Huerta is an acclaimed speaker at various settings, including universities, conferences, corporate training, spiritual communities and the TedX stage. Audiences find Christian's message particularly relevant in these times. Christian also practices as a spiritual coach and a leadership development consultant whose work ranges from individuals and couples in private practice to major corporations and non-profit groups.

Check out his latest book here: Awakening the Soul of Power

And connect with him on his website here: https://www.soulfulpower.com/

Text below is machine-generated and unedited.

Brandon Handley 0:41 Either spiritual dope I'm on today with Christian de la Huerta we are on here today and Christian is a sought after spiritual teacher, personal transformation coach and leading voice in the breathwork community. He's traveled the world offering inspiring and transformational retreats combining psychological and spiritual teachings with life lasting and life changing effects. In award winning critically acclaimed author he has spoken at numerous universities and conferences on the TEDx stage. his new book awakening in the solar power was described by multi Grammy Award winner glorious Stefan as a balm for the soul of it for anyone searching for the truth and answers to life difficult questions. First of all, thanks for being on today.

Christian de la Huerta 1:24 Hey, Brandon, thanks so much for having me. I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Brandon Handley 1:30 Fantastic. So I'd like to start this off with the whole idea that and I think you mentioned it in one of your lines, like we are conduits for the universe, universe's energy to come through. And the idea is that you and I are going to have this conversation that you and I have, but there's going to be somebody listening, that's only going to pick up on like this message being delivered through the universe through you to them today. What is that was that message?

Christian de la Huerta 1:58 Well, before I get into that, I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your sense of spiritual irreverence, I very much appreciate it, and it cracked me up some of your comments on your website, you know, I think if we were gonna wrap up the message into to the into one, short description is like, there is a way that we can step into our power into our personal power in a way that is a match for who we are. Because most of us, I think are conflicted about that we have an ambivalent relationship to power, we want it, but we're afraid of it. And I think at the core, we're afraid that if we really stepped into all of our power, all of our potential that other people would be threatened by us or be afraid of us. Or, you know, we would end up alone. And we've also been conditioned to believe that power is a bad thing, you know, like with quotes, like power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And so what good hearted person wants to be corrupted or wants to abuse power, which is what we see out in the world all the time. So add to that mix. And by the way, what they forgot to tell us about that power, corrupts quote is that Lord Acton was speaking specifically about political power, not the personal power that we're talking about. But when you combine all of that with the fact that we have been conditioned to be afraid of the emotion, somebody along the way, had this bright, brilliant idea that the emotions were weakness, and especially for us as men, we were conditioned, you know, a little boys don't cry, and you know, like, Man up and, and all these other kind of twisted definitions of what it means to be a man and what it means what it means to be a woman. So when you put all that into a mix, we hate confrontation, we hate conflict. And what happens is we end up giving our power away our innate power that nobody can give to us, nobody can take away, we are the only ones who can give it away. And what's sad, what is sadness to me is that we give it away for really lame reasons, like we give it away and we settle for less, we place more, we hide our light under a bushel, we say yes, when inside we feel no. And for this, for reasons like an illusion of security, or false sense of acceptance, or morsels of pseudo love. And and so that's the message you know that there is there is a way that we can step into power that that is a match for who we are and that it doesn't require for us to push anybody down, to step on them, to abuse them, to take advantage of them to manipulate them to use force or fear that there is a way that we can express our power. That isn't a natural expression of who we are.

Brandon Handley 4:49 So I think that it's funny actually copied that Marianne Williamson line out again last night while I was reading your book, you know, the it's not that we're afraid of You know how small views we're afraid of how great our power actually is. And I think that that's kind of you're talking to one here, and then that we give it away so easily have like these kind of wrong reasons. What, you know, what was it for you along your journey that awakens your personal solar power that, you know, we're talking about, you know, your book as well? What was it that that, that awoken that woke up your soul, you know, and gave you kind of pretty notice to it?

Christian de la Huerta 5:34 Well, I think my, my initial wake up point was breathwork, some 30 years ago. And I'd had some experiences with, you know, with mind expanding substances that also kind of, you know, had a phase of experimentation when I was writing written when I was in college. And that began a process of questioning reality, the worldview, I was raised in a very Catholic environment. So that began that combined with a class and existentialism began a process of questioning. I think it was, when I, when I did first did breathwork. It just changed everything. I was on a track to get a PhD in psychology. My dad was a psychiatrist. So I come out of that tradition. When I did breathwork, for the first time I jumped tracks, I never went for the PhD. And I've been, I knew after one session that I that I'd never be the same, and I wasn't my, my life took a different direction I, within six months, I quit my last corporate job.

Brandon Handley 6:44 That's awesome. I think that breathwork for me, has been very revelatory as well.

Unknown Speaker 6:54 I had my

Brandon Handley 6:56 several instances of brain expansive substances. That's, I think that's how you title it. And but the deal is, is that and that's a real big, the name of the podcast, spiritual hope you can get to that space in a place of this this hit of spirituality by doing like something like breathwork. Right. So what did you do then? I mean, so you're like, I'm out on the corporate gig. And what did you have done after that? I'm just curious. Yeah.

Christian de la Huerta 7:26 Well, you know, if I ended up doing an ashram experience with a teacher that I met with who, you know, from whom I learned breathwork, originally, so I studied with her for five years. And for the most part, monastics setting, had a few deviations from that, but could really count them on one hand in five years, which, by the way, was a really empowering experience for me to begin to reel in my mice, my sexual energies on the way that I related to two other people with you with that sexual energy. And yeah, that was incredibly difficult time of my life, it was, it was very demanding. Not only the lifestyle, but the, you know, the opportunities for letting go of my preferences in my my desires, and, like, I wouldn't want to do it again. But I'm really grateful that I did, because I wouldn't be who I am. If it wasn't for that experience.

Brandon Handley 8:33 I get it. You know, letting go and spend a lot of space but what would you say though, was like the the most difficult part, right? Because you're kind of in there, and you're doing it on your own? you're wanting this right. What what made that?

Christian de la Huerta 8:49 I guess, very good, very good interview questions. Brandon. You know, if you would have asked me before, I would have thought it would have been the celibacy celibacy thing.

Brandon Handley 9:00 That wasn't right,

Christian de la Huerta 9:02 wasn't even close to the, to the hardest thing. In fact, that wasn't such existential kind of level of survival. Because this teacher was brilliant, and she was a ruthless ego Slayer. So I think what was most difficult was being in in because we were at the same time going through some challenging times out of out on the physical world. And it's a longer story that we don't have time to get into here, but like it was to maximize it. At one point, we were homeless. We lived in the car for four for a week, and in San Francisco, and we would take showers and the YMCA in the morning for four bucks. And at the same time that she was going through some profoundly transformational experience, which didn't make her very functional in this room. Um, so, you know, put all that, you know, the fact that she was my ego was being incredibly threatened that I was in survival level, like so much of my identity, up until this time had been connected to my worldly success. And suddenly here I am, you know, like barely living in a car for a week. And, and feeling so responsible for everything and at the same time, like surrendering and in the teacher in the guru, the guru disciple model, you're surrendering to the sacred, but through this person of, of the guru that's right in front of you. Who was at times irrational? And so that's the part that I was so that I didn't know that, to me was most difficult. That was because you're basically surrendering your desires, your preferences, like even your perceptions?

Brandon Handley 10:55 Yeah. It's a whole psychological play, right? I mean, here you are working with, right? And then you're, you're you're working with this, this guru, and to attain, you know, a certain level, a certain experience, I don't know. But then they're a mess. And you're like, what the hell am I doing? I mean, that's got to be, that's where my head would be. And then also, you've got your cycle, your psychology background, right. So you're, you're like, doubling down, because you know, where the razor cuts?

Christian de la Huerta 11:26 Yeah, and I mean, I'm, with all the respect of not putting her down, like, like, I really value she, I got incredible teachings from her. And the opportunity for for surrender was mine, like that was, I did that nobody could do that for me. And that's some, that's the most profound experience that I got from that, in addition to learning trust. at a cellular level, it was like I my relationship with with life became incredibly trusting. Because no matter how bad things got, like, we're down to just like, the storage unit is in Hawaii and San Francisco and Los Angeles. And like, there was nothing else to pawn and money would show up unexpectedly from from just an unexpected source just at the right time. We never missed a meal. Like, yeah, it was rough. It was very rough. But we never missed a meal. So that I got to learn that at a cellular level. It's not something that I could read in a book, to know that I'm going to be fine. But I'm going to be taking care of

Brandon Handley 12:28 the idea of Providence. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I love it. I love it. So in your, in your book, you know, covers quite quite quite a bit. And one of the things that you cover in there that I think, is really important, especially in today's day and age, and the spiritual guy to write as a spirit as a spiritual guy, but like, what, what was a healthy masculine power look like? actually kind of identify what power is like in your what is power? And then what's the healthy masculine power? Yeah, no,

Christian de la Huerta 13:04 that's that's a great question. You're asking some really good questions, some of which nobody has asked me before. I've done dozens and dozens of interviews or podcasts. Nobody has asked me this stuff yet. This one? Yeah. But you're asking really good ones. So yeah, so in order to reconcile the way that we reconcile this this ambivalent, or, or conflicted relationship we have with power, one of the ways around that is to realize that we're talking about different kinds, right. So there's the what there's a worldly power, or egoic, power, ego power, which we tend to associate, you know, the way the way the world looks at power, we tend to associate with people who have money, who have fame, who are high up in some kind of hierarchy, whether it's a corporate ladder, or some kind of religious organization, or whatever it is. But the thing about all those kinds of expressions of power is that they're because they're outside of us. They're here today, they're gone tomorrow. Whereas the other kind of power that I'm pointing to, is internal. It's, you know, I'm calling it soulful power. It's spiritual power. I call it what you wish, right? It doesn't matter what we call it, but it's the it's the power that is inherent to each one of us. And again, like no one can give it to us, no one can can take it away. And whereas worldly power is always has an agenda, and it's very self serving, it's always trying to get something for itself. The other kind of power, spiritual power, what to me is authentic power. It's humble. It's, it's, it doesn't need to prove anything to anybody, and it's about service is about making a difference. So I think about a Gandhi or Gandalf, in their monastic robes and their stupid sandals, as you would say. And then the other sandal feet, you would never know you know, like you would never know how much power they hold until it's called for and then you know what's out like brought the British Empire to its knees at the point when it was at its highest, highest point in terms of global reach and global influence without landing a single punch or shooting a gun, like talk about power. And so that's, that's what I mean by soulful powers. That's the kind of power that that from within that it's, like, the worldly power believes that the it comes from a place that that that it's a zero sum game, right so that there's a limited amount you're having power threatens mine. Whereas, whereas What I'm saying is like, wait a minute, if I'm in my power, if I know who I am, like, why would I be threatened by you having powers like I'm not threatened by that? It's like, I know, no matter what you or anybody else does, I know that I've got it, I can handle it. I can show up and respond appropriately to whatever that situation is. So why would I be threatened by anybody having power, I can celebrate somebody else's power. And so now power with rather than power over, which has been the traditional, patriarchal, masculine, like toxic masculine way of expressing power, which our relationship to which you know, reflects in our relationship to the planet and our relationship to life, which is basically you fuck it or you kill it?

Brandon Handley 16:22 Right? I mean, that was a game they cut. Right? Right was it was a fucking kill it keep it whatever is true. You know, then that's, that's the I think the historic chase right? There kill it. So what is what is the healthy masculine power look like then? Yeah, and real quick question. Are we in your sub question is, are we on pace to like, get there in our lifetime?

Christian de la Huerta 16:51 Yeah, that's a good question that that I don't have an answer to I see a lot of changes, though. I see a lot of a lot of men who are just not No, not threatened, you know, a lot. And you know, a lot of straight guys who tell each other, you know, I love you and kiss each other on the cheek, and there's, they're not threatened. By that it like it doesn't mean anything, to once masculinity. So so there's a book, you know, it's for everybody. But it has a particular message for women, stemming from my belief that the empowerment of women is like, the single most important thing that needs to happen in the world. It's not to idealize women is not to put women up on a pedestal is not to give women more shit that they got to clean up and do. It's because as a planet as a species, we've been running very off balance when it comes to power and gender, and sacred masculine and feminine energies. So and I believe that when women are in 50%, of power in this world, because I don't believe that we need to go back to matriarchy, I don't think that's what we need, I think we need balance inside each one of us and in the world, between the masculine and the feminine. And so that when women are 50% of power in the world, we're gonna have a very different relationship to war and poverty and hunger, and social justice and wealth distribution and how we treat the environment to all of it. So that's what when I think strategically, like what is the one thing that's gonna then impact a lot of others. That's what I come down on. so and so. So that's one message of the book. But what about men? Because the, the tragic part of it is, is that this system of toxic masculinity, that that that we have been living out of for the last several 1000 years that has this twisted definition of what it means to be a man. It's like, it doesn't work for anybody, like, of course, it hasn't worked for women, and the lack of equity and justice and equality. And the oppression of women is like that is still so prevalent in this world is like, like no longer acceptable or sustainable. And men are also paying a price for that. So let's look at a couple of numbers. Like if you look at longevity in the US, women outlive men by five years, if you look at the global numbers, they outlive men by seven years, we get suicide numbers in this country women, I mean, men commit suicide four times as frequently as women. 70% of the suicides in this country are committed by middle aged white men, which, interestingly, are the ones who still hold the majority of the power in this world. So what's up with that, you know, what is not working? And I think that part of what is not working, is that it's this twisted definition of what it means to be a man and so we walk around because it's like we were saying earlier, somebody decided that the emotions were weakness and little boys don't cry. So we walk around, so threatened about not being masculine that we turn into these unfeeling, uncaring robots and there's a price to pay for that. Like what used to be spiritual teaching that everything is energy. Now we know from quantum physics that it's true, energy cannot be destroyed. So what does that mean that that the body is energy even though it feels solid, the emotions are energy, that's all they are, they're not good, they're not bad. They're not strength, they're not weakness, they're just energies coursing through our bodies. And so whenever we suppress those emotions, they don't go away. Right, they stay in the tissues of our bodies, and only a couple things can happen. If so, we suppress, we suppress, we suppress. And then the next unfortunate being just says something towards the wrong way, um, volcanic eruption, right, all that repressed anger, like just comes out in appropriately and we cause harm to our relationships or suppress, suppress, suppress, suppress, that energy has to come out one way or the other. So it starts seeping out and showing up in physical symptoms, heart attacks, cancer officers. So so we've got, we've got to get this right, we've got to figure this out, and get right with our emotions. And yes, as far as I'm concerned, to be able to know what we're feeling, and be able to define it, and be able to communicate it responsibly owning that, it's our emotions, not dumping them on each other, like we tend to do, like holding it's our emotions, and learning how to communicate them courageously, because it's always gonna take courage and compassionately without pointing the finger and without blaming, and without, you know, like, only our experience, and our heart of it is to me, and, and gracefully in a way that the other person can actually hear them. All that is like nothing less than mastery. It's the opposite of weakness.

Brandon Handley 21:41 Right? That fairpoint? Absolutely, I'd never, I think I've never made it to the other end of the bridge there. It's into making that mastery. But you know, I am very familiar with not being familiar with my own emotions, right? And going and doing the research mean, like, oh, wow, I really don't know what these are. What are some tools that you'd like to use to help males get in touch then with, you know, their emotions? And to point to how do you express them gracefully, because my history has been, oh, I found these emotions, but like, there is no grace to how I express that.

Christian de la Huerta 22:22 Right? That's a great question. I'll tell you what I did. And because I was clueless myself, and here's the thing, my dad, a psychiatrist, and a good one, because I've heard from people after, you know, after he passed, so I used to go to him. And he really helped me. So I know it was a good psychiatrist, but in relationship to his own emotions, the guy was clueless, clueless. And so I grew up clueless, I couldn't tell you what I was feeling because I had no idea what I was feeling. So when I started doing this kind of work, like, you know, that becoming self aware, and I realized that this was an area that I needed to do. So this is before cellphones, you know, I had a timer from Radio Shack, and I would set it on the hour, and I had I printed I found a list of emotions, and educated myself about what they meant. So I created this grid, you know, like, every day of the week, and by the hour, and the emotions on the other side. And so I at the hour go off, and I go, am I feeling this? Am I feeling that? Am I feeling this? Maybe that could be? And little by little, I did that for several weeks until I started becoming more emotionally intelligent. And in terms of how to communicate them. It's another big question. But the main thing is to realize that it's our emotions, like nobody out there can make us feel anything. Unless there's some room in there that's being hurt, right? So it's our emotions like, like say, let's just a quick example so that you and I both have lunch with our friend Joe, every week, like and he Joe inevitably shows up late 20 minutes. There I am on on Monday, just like I knew it. He's so selfish. So so irresponsible, so only cares about his own schedule, blah, blah, blah, and all the other stories that we make up about stuff like this. Whereas you you know, it's like great, Joe's late. I have 20 minutes. Let me go online. Let me return a phone call. Let me just do what there's so many options, so many possible responses to somebody showing up late. Why does it get me so pissed off? Right, so, so it's so that's what I mean by owning that it's our emotions, and it doesn't make Joe's lateness or anything goes right. But it's not about that. It's not excusing anybody's behavior. Like that's not the point of the conversation. If we want to be free. We start from that place that it's our emotions. And and it's, that's what his book is, is you know, it's part of a series on what it means to live heroically because it's work like to be able to, to be willing to go inside and to feel the stuff that sometimes we spent a lifetime running away from feeling and to to look at patterns to understand And why we do the things we do, why we sometimes get to sabotage ourselves and sabotage our relationships. Sometimes from the get go by attracting people who are not a match people who are not available, like it's work to figure all this stuff out. But it's incredibly rewarding and liberating, because we can bring choice back into the equation. So to go back to your question, how to so owning, how do we how do we communicate and communicate emotions responsibly owning other hours, and then using, you know, like basic communication stuff like using I statements? So rather than saying you did this, or you always do that, like the other ego that doesn't even know that it's an ego yet that doesn't understand what the ego construct is? And why would that makes us do the things we do. And that gets us so defensive, and takes everything personally, and feel so victimized by others and by life. So it doesn't even know what it is, the only thing you can do is defend, right? And especially when we use words like you always do this, or you never do that. It's like it. Like they might be looking you in the eye, but they're not even they're not even there. They're going back in their mind, they're going back in time back in time back in time to that one time in 2009. Well, they didn't do that. And so then they get to be right and say, well, that's not always true. I don't always do that. So so using I statements, and again, here's a really good formula when you do this, I feel my so when when when you show up late, I feel disrespected. I feel dishonored. And and and i don't i don't like this feeling. I love our relationship, our love our friendship. And can we do this a different way? Yeah, that's what I like to have a conversation with Joe about.

Brandon Handley 26:44 Yeah, Joe, you gotta stop showing up late man. Worrying about it. But for truly, for God's sake, come on to the idea to is that a good This gives that gives me an opportunity, if you're owning your emotions, to go in and just look at that. Right? What is triggering me to get pissed off of Joe? Right? Why? Why am I starting with Joe? Just because he's late. Right? I got a whole bunch of other things like we spend in this energy on and posted Joe, right. I'll never, I'm never gonna get this 20 minutes back. And while I want to blame Joe, it's not just fault. And then the other piece that you're talking about? The I know, when you do this, I feel that.

Unknown Speaker 27:31 You know,

Brandon Handley 27:34 I recently read like a validation book, right? Because I'm not a great validator. Christian, just just so we all know, but I'll be getting better. Your feelings are always valid, right? So you can never that's never a false statement. That's really saying so and that's and that's what allows that person to not be defensive when you make those. I feel safe. That's right. Okay. All right. Thanks for sharing that. That's definitely definitely Yeah,

Christian de la Huerta 28:02 it's, it's worthwhile work is if we do the work, if we take, you know, whatever time it takes to figure it out, it's like, we, when we zoom out, zoom out a little bit. It's like, wait a minute, it's not just when Joe is late, that I get pissed off is when anybody shows up late. So what is that? Right? It's not so it's not really about Joe. And if I zoom out a little further, it's not even just about being late. It's when somebody you know, cuts me off in conversation or cuts me off in traffic, it's it kind of evokes the same kind of feeling that same kind of frustration or anger is what is that? So if we are willing to do that work and go back in time back in time, and to begin to see when How did this pattern start, which most of the time is gonna go back to something from childhood probably in relationship to it with mommy or daddy. And, and what's at the core of it is like, we don't feel valued, right, like, the core underneath the anger. It's like, we don't feel respected. We don't feel valued. We don't feel like he's like he's valuing his time more than he's valuing mine. And that's the unhealed wound that's getting triggered in this present situation, but the one is much older than my lunches with Joe.

Brandon Handley 29:12 Yeah. It's like, peeling off a scab. That never quite healed. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, disgusting. Alright, so Kristen, got a couple questions for you real quick here. I kind of liken this show to like a spiritual speed dating show, right? Like, I understand Come on, and it's the spiritual speed dating. And like, you know, what's, what's Christian got for me? So I'm gonna say, hey, Bachelor number one out of a couple different questions. If that's your number one, what is your one wish for the world?

Christian de la Huerta 29:53 You know, and and i'm not i'm not a good one for speed dating. If we really got who we are, which which is connected to understanding that, that we're not the ego. And really quickly, if we put up, here's a great way of understanding that you go, if you put a baseball in the center of a stadium, that's the ego, who we are is actually the fricking stadium. And we allow this tiny, tiny, tiny part of who we are to think that it is all of who we are. And to make really important, critical, consequential choices from its very small, limited and always fear based perspective. So if we got who we really are, that would shift everything, it would shift the relationship to ourselves, it would shift our relationship to each other, it would shift our relationship to the planet.

Brandon Handley 30:43 I love that visual too. And, you know, I guess that brings up the question, too, is like, we make that content, how do we make that conscious shift to, you know, connect to our power? How do we meet that constant shift to realize that we don't have anything left to be afraid of, unless we're hanging out in the desert reliance?

Christian de la Huerta 31:03 That's right. And, you know, that's like that's by this book. Seriously, the book will walk you by the hand, and it'll it'll, it'll help you understand the egos like, incomplete humility, I don't know. Like, to me, this is the simplest way that that I've seen of explaining what the ego is. So that we can really get it so that we can get what it what the self made prison of the ego is, so that we can let ourselves out because nobody else is gonna let us out of our self made prisons, they can't, only we can do that. And only we can step into our own power. Nobody can do that for us. But we've got it takes work. But we've got to get clear about why we do the things we do and in which situations, do we give our power away? Or, you know, is it does it tend to be with in romantic, intimate sexual relationships? Or do we tend to give our power away with authority figures, bosses, coaches, nose, religious leaders, that kind of thing, parental figures. And so once we are willing to do the work and look at the patterns, then we can, like cut it out, and stop giving our power away and, and stepping into our full potential as human beings? Because Ain't nobody else gonna do it? If we don't? Right,

Brandon Handley 32:16 right? I think that one of the couple of things I enjoyed about your book, too, since you brought up liking these questions, you've got these questions just like this to help you to identify the patterns. At the end of each chapter, you give out the layout. You say, all right, well, you know, here's the information. But here's how you can apply it right? Go ahead here, use some of these questions, detect the patterns. And then you know, to point, you get to know where is it you are giving your power away? And stop. Right? And again, that becomes a source. Right? Yeah. And, and at least at that point in time, you recognize that you're, you know, in this position of your own power, and you get to at least determined to do it consciously. Right, exactly. In the end, that's what freedom is.

Christian de la Huerta 33:07 Yeah, that's it, you just nailed it. Because you know, there were times where it may not be in our highest highest interest. Like, we may not be our in our highest interest to like really step into our power in relationship to our boss, until we have something else lined up. Or if we're being you know, somebody is holding a gun or a knife up in a dark alley. It may not be the that may not be the best time to say oh, well, this really doesn't work for me. Right? You just hand over the frickin wallet and walk away with your life. So yeah, of course, of course. We're gonna be smart about this. So I think you're right. I think it's about choice, bringing choice back into the equation.

Brandon Handley 33:44 Kristen, thanks so much for thanks for finding me. And, you know, offering to come on the show. I've enjoyed the conversation. I've enjoyed the book that I've read, you know, the bulk of it so far.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Unknown Speaker 0:01 Wake me up.

Brandon Handley 0:02 Before you go, go. Set a listen. I totally grew up in the 80s I'm not gonna lie, I can't my good day to you, sir. I'm got some fun stuff for you today. Got up gonna be along the lines of miracles miracle creation, shit like that. When I had a class I'm in, I'm in a group, I'm in a course it's called creating personal mastery of streak morale, definitely talked about it comes from just the work that he's done over the years, he takes lessons from all the masters. Throughout history, we're talking Buddha, Jesus, whole bunch of Swamis, gurus throughout history, and he strips them of cultural identity. And when he stripped some of this cultural identity, you have an opportunity to revisit some of these concepts. Without preconception of, Oh, this comes from not my Lord Jesus, I can't take it. This call so I'm not my Lord Vishnu can't take it. This calls from you get the picture.

Unknown Speaker 1:37 And

Brandon Handley 1:39 when you do that, when you take away these preconceptions, you don't have a filter built in that does doesn't allow you to say no to something. Or perhaps I should say it makes it easier for you to say yes to some things. Because there's a specific logic. I don't even know if it's logic, there's a specific way that when presented, it's not illogical. That's a double, double negative for all you grammar nazis out there. There's logic and then there's something there's something in there. That just it is it sounds illogical.

Unknown Speaker 2:34 But then there's this there's

Brandon Handley 2:35 this truth. There's this truth in there that you just simply can't refute. It's irrefutable. Simply because the way that it's presented, it fucking makes sense.

And you don't even recognize that it makes sense. That's how much sense that it makes sense, you don't refute it. It automatically bypasses your conscious filter. Your filter that says, Oh, no, that's bullshit. Because none of that I don't believe in Jesus, that I don't believe in the Torah. Get it? Right. So since you didn't say no. You're saying yes. This only applies and subconscious stuff, and not if he or she is asleep. Just a heads up there. So since you didn't say no, yes, it goes into your subconscious slips in there. And and then if there's any way that you can see the logic in it a second time because the material is presented repeatedly throughout the course of a period, and it's also you're also doing it within a group of other people. And you've also said, Hey, I'll keep an open mind. And I'll check this shit out. And belief has nothing to do with it yet. Belief has nothing to do with it yet. But you've accepted it in some way or another in a intellectual fashion. You said intellectually, this bucket makes sense. Okay, so once you've once you've once you've let it slip into the subconscious let it is obviously that's a loaded word. You didn't necessarily let it just fucking happen. Kinda like that one night shift has happened. And you then accept it in the mind, once you accept it on purpose, once you accept it with the intention of saying, Oh, okay. This makes sense intellectually. I'll go ahead and now I'll look for evidence of it in my life. Once you have let it slip into the subconscious, you've accepted it as a possibility. And then you begin to look for it in your life. And then it shows up. Then you experience it. Now, it's no longer just a concept. So long as a thought and intellectual practice. You've got the real life experience, according to how everything is lined up. And now, you're like, the shits real? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no way.

Unknown Speaker 6:20 No way.

Brandon Handley 6:22 No fucking way. And here's, here's here's what happened. It's kind of like a story within a story within a story like a goddamn Russian nesting doll. In the class to the night, there was four of us. And we were going over this, what gets in your way? Or where do you want to be? Or what kind of shit Do you trying to accomplish in your life and what's getting in your way. And this is a class that's offered at no insubstantial amount. And it is for like CE o 's high performance professionals, people who are ambitious, people who are also seekers, I believe that in this in this group, there seem to be a lot of seekers. And again, you find what you're looking for. And there's just some incredibly well, exceptionally well known people in this group within their circles. So when we have our get together, and there are these small group breakouts, that you get together once a week, and you go over these certain concepts and ideas, when we got together. In the group of three out of four, worldwide, three of us were coaches or coaching or had a coaching practice, along the spiritual and transformational lines, just like myself, just like myself. And we're all in similar but different spots along the journey. If that makes sense. we all we all want it to move forward. And we all were looking for how to make that happen. How are you? How are you making that happen? What is the next step that you need to make so that you can experience your desires in a way that you say you would like to in your life? And that's a tough one. Because a lot of times you come up with a lot of bullshit answers to that. And you say things like, well, if I had marketing or if I have more money if this or that. A whole bunch of things come up in that. And honestly, the truth of the matter is, it's a couple of things a maybe you really don't fucking want it. Is that really what you want? Because if that's really what you wanted, wouldn't you be taking steps and action towards it? It's fair question. If you wanted it badly enough, there wouldn't be a barrier to it. We how many stories are you familiar with in your lifetime? where people have made it or done it and insurmountable

Unknown Speaker 9:37 odds?

Brandon Handley 9:38 They aren't even super smart seemingly. And and you're like, What the fuck is wrong with me? Why is my life like this? Or maybe that's just me and I'll take that but we I happen to find myself and this group of at least three of us at the same time brought together in like, this way there's like what are the fucking odds well Word that we're all we have the similar limiting beliefs Do we have the similar spots of being stuck in? And while we were talking, one of my suggestions was to somebody else in the group, I was like, Well, if that's really what you want in your life, then why don't you talk to somebody who's achieved it? And what are some ways start looking for? Start looking for the ways that you could achieve that for yourself, if that's what you really wanted? Because chances are, chances are, you know, certain ways. And there's certain ways and other people have done it at this point that maybe you're not willing to do, because that's just not you. Right? And again, maybe that's another one of those limiting beliefs. Well, it's got to be done a certain way. Okay, maybe, then maybe you don't want it. Right. We have to, we have to be okay to admit that to ourselves. We have to be okay to let go some shit that we said we want, that we don't want it anymore. And then be okay with that. Overall is not what I want. Just kidding. Sorry, y'all. Just because you've got a lot of mental energy ish, shit tied up in it doesn't mean that you want it anymore. And that's okay, too. So that was one of the questions that kind of popped up in the group, too, was uh, maybe maybe? Pretty sure that's what you still want? Is that really what you want? understanding what it is that you actually want is not it's not easy? Because you say, you say why don't you start working towards it? Oh, yeah, I guess I didn't want it that bad, right. And that's okay, it wasn't worth x, y, z price, there's a price that you have to pay for all these things. And that looks like money that looks like time that looks like time away from family that looks like more time with family that looks like some things that maybe you're simply not willing to do at this point in your life. Yet any rate, so there we were three of us. in similar situations, I personally feel like I'm making the progress and doing the things and taking the steps myself. I don't know if I could be doing it any harder or faster. I've hired a you know, hired marketers, I've hired people to do my branding, I've done things I think that are on brand on point selected a targeted message selected different space, like, again, spirituality for the street, spiritual dope, it's a definitely a brand, it's definitely got a targeted demographic. And you know, and, you know, in support of mental health, there's a you know, there's another reason for it, how to apply it in your in your life, so that you can have to be anything that you want beyond your limited, mortal self. some shit like that, once you incorporate overall spirituality. So that's where I come from on it. And, you know, I've even got right now, somebody, you know, working with me, PR, too, help spread the message beyond the way that I know how because guess what, I don't know how to do some of these things. And sometimes I don't want to know how I want to find somebody that specializes in it to help me. So I can accelerate to a place that I would like to be at the same time in a in organic fashion without deviating from the message without without putting the need to monetize this in such a way that it influences the message. And what I mean by that is I'm not looking for ways to press on your pain points. To say that you've got to make a move in your life and buy my product, right. I don't feel like that's 100% necessary for where I am today. And what I'm doing. So I avoid it as part of the whole stick as it were again, so that I can stay pure anyways,

shared all that out with the group. And also the idea that if you want to find somebody, if you do want to take any steps like that and you want to see it show up in your life, you got to go out and you got to look for find it. And, and then the one one guy in the group, he says the other thing he said to which I stuck out in my mind, just What's on your plate? what's in front of you right now is enough, as you're making the progress that you should be making with intention with purpose. And surrendering a little bit, again in surrender means

Unknown Speaker 15:15 stop trying

Brandon Handley 15:16 to control all the outcomes only control, you work work on what's right in front of you right now as part of the process. And as a second part of that, this whole thing is that this is a sort of group where we're focused on creating or witnessing miracles with our life, however you want to see it. And two parts to that the odds of this group coming together are what? Three out of four of us worldwide, what are the odds of us coming together? The first answer to that, and I got this from a gentleman who's been on the show before Adam Walton been coached by him before and brought up a scene like this Tim before and just the odds of this are 100%, it had to show up in my life in such a way like this, that I would accept it, to motivate me to, to have an impact, to be noticeable to have awareness of it. So the odds are like 100%. So then the very next morning, speaking of miracles, I've got meetings that are back to back, got a little coffee shop that I want to go get some coffee for, but I don't have fucking time for it. Because I got all these meetings, and they're good meetings. I'm really, really looking forward to them. Because I'm doing some cool shit. However, I still want that cup of coffee. What I want is like this little break just in the day to change up the pace of things. And my 10 o'clock cancel, I was like, shut the fuck up.

Unknown Speaker 16:53 Mariko

Brandon Handley 16:54 gives me a little bit of time to run across and grab a cup of coffee. So I want to cross it and get this cup of coffee. And Funny thing is his funny on the way in. There was a dad telling his daughter stay outside with the dog goes hoppy, right? She goes, What if What if I get kidnapped? And he goes, he goes, look, I'll be I'll be back before you're kidnapped. I have asked when we walk as like to just tell her that you'll be back before she was kidnapped. Yeah, I was like, all right, just making sure I heard that. Right. And I leave the place with my coffee, and the goddamn lemon Danish because they bake them fresh there and just wanted it. That's why I've wanted I've resisted for way too long. And I go outside, walk outside. And as I'm leaving, there's a there's a dude sitting there. reading his book power versus force by David Hawkins. got two options. I can note it. That's a cool book in my head and keep walking. But I was like, fuck it. I was like, I was like, Yeah, that's a great book. I said it out loud to him. Because Yeah, I was like, What do you check it out what's happening? We get to talking. And turns out, he is a men's spiritual coach right down the street. We get to talk about different things and pieces, we can act on a lot of different things, but which is all awesome. But the big takeaways I looked at as a miracle something that you know, without that night before talking about having a coach show up to does what you're trying to do in your life. So that you can find somebody to to rap about this stuff with. Like shamwow and instantaneous the moment that you believe that something like that could even happen. Like I had to be able to believe that something like that was possible in my life, to be aware of it, to allow for it to show up. yada yada. What are your beliefs around what's possible for you in your life. And the thing with spirituality is that if you believe that you have to do it all yourself within the confines of you and your own mind. And you have to force these things yourself. What you're not allowing for is this idea of this idea of surrendering to the universe and trusting as Alan Watts said, Justin the universe as though it were another throwing your the possibility of anything that happen that is in alignment with what you're trying to do in your life. As a step towards it, whatever that is. And I'm always reminded of the quote, or the idea of you only had to see 200 feet in front of you when you're driving at night. your headlights can only see two to 500 feet in front of you. You keep driving the headlights keep on shining two to five 100 feet in front of you continues to open up, you just have to follow the road. Same concept, same idea. Same thing will happen for you and your life if you're willing for it. If you allow for it, if you follow it if if you're willing to believe you're willing to step out in faith and if you're willing to go beyond just slightly beyond your current belief system and accepted, anything is possible for what you once deemed impossible. Check it out later.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

I had the opportunity to hang out with the author of True Loves Kiss, Debbie Moran on this episode, join in the conversation to get some practical applications of spirituality that you can use in your daily routine!

Unknown Speaker 0:00 Your journey has been an interesting one up here. You've put in so much more than those around you. You've even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? I'm wondering why do people in general You're so limited as Bob process for ensuring you are not alone The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside getting can't quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the question you never even knew to ask questions about you in the world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don't have all the answers, but we sure do love Living in the Time for another spiritual dope with your host, Brandon Handley. Let's get right into today's episode.

Brandon Handley 0:41 Hey there spiritual dope. We are on today with my good friend Debbie Moran and Debbie and I connected through spirituality group that we're both members in the soul side, right soul side by side community. Yes. Also community with Mark Youngblood for some of you who've listened to the podcast a couple times, you've heard mark on the podcast, hurts I think I had Anna champagne on the podcast as well, all members of this incredible group, Debbie is no exception, in this group well, and they're just trying to learn how to improve, improve, you know, just how to harness our spirituality better throughout life. And Debbie has written a book that she's going to talk a little bit about with us today, that's going to help you to figure out, you know, what are what are some practical applications? And what are some ways that you can harness spirituality so that you can have some more fulfillment, some more happiness, confidence, Legos, some anxiety, those types of things. So, Debbie, thank you so much for being on today.

Debbie Moran 1:43 Hey, you're welcome, Brandon, thank you for having me.

Brandon Handley 1:46 Absolutely. Absolutely. And I always like to start these off with the idea that we are directly connected to source energy, like at all times, right? And it creates and speaks through us, right, we're vessels for for this. And the idea is that there's somebody listening to this podcast today, that is going to receive a message that can only be delivered through you at this precise time. What is that message?

Debbie Moran 2:15 I love that you're we're on the same page. I do believe not that we're connected to source, but that we are an extension of source. So we are here to embody us. So I feel like that actually is something that took me a long time to actually realize that I was here to embody Debbie Moran, rather than I was going to change my name. And so many of us have changed our names in our spiritual circles, I realized through my process that a lot of the names that I was going to change my name to, were simply the state that I was in and in my own evolution, for instance, bliss. So. So what's the message, the message is we are here to be who we came to be?

Brandon Handley 3:04 What's that look like for you? If you wanted to elaborate a little bit more?

Debbie Moran 3:09 Well, each of us, I think you said it really nicely. In the beginning, I don't feel like we're here to learn anything I hate, we're here to remember the truth of who we are, and the extent of what we're capable of, which is beyond our conscious level of awareness. So it's really about raising our states of awareness. So that we can actually tap into and become that presence. That is that clear vessel, that Clear Channel that doesn't, you know, words are what we have to work with. But the truth is really beyond words. And so it's challenging sometimes to actually put an expression in terms of a language to all of the truth. And so I feel like what you said is true. I in fact, a coach once told me, you know, there are people in the world who can only hear what they need to hear through you.

Brandon Handley 4:08 Right, I mean, it's true, right? There's, there's, you know, I think we all resonate at a certain level to our different people. Right. And, and that's really the idea of the podcast is, I may resonate with plenty of people, but you resonate with a different group, you're gonna attract, and you're gonna speak to a different group of people that that tune in, and they're gonna hear your message, they're gonna pick up on the Debbie vibe, right? And, and, and, and you're gonna maybe open up something inside of them, right? I really liked that idea, though, to what you were saying that, that you had considered changing your name, because of these states that you were in and the idea of all these other people kind of that maybe you knew that have changed their name that maybe they find the spirituality and then they go change their name. Right, they live into this other state of being that they think can flip in and out of at any time. Right. And and I'm really glad to hear that what you decided to do, though, was just, you know, understand that you were here to be, you know, kind of who you were meant to be. And not like these other, these other things, these other when you change your name like that, it's kind of like you're just changing your mask. Right,

Debbie Moran 5:24 exactly. Right. Right. So start roles. So it is the roles we play, and they vary throughout life, but our presence never buries. So it just shines through different masks and different roles.

Brandon Handley 5:40 Right? Well, so let me let me um, what what kind of got you into spirituality space to begin with,

Debbie Moran 5:47 was kind of born into a dynamic actually, it really wasn't meant as a that was really part of what maybe it's like coming full circle, rather full spiraling inward to this awareness that I came in sort of rejecting. Rejecting the sense of being here, there was a part of me, I literally came in with going, whoa, where am I? And this is pre words, where am I? And how did I get here? And none of this makes sense? And what is this language I'm hearing and I couldn't say it, but I say all these thoughts were going through my head. And so it took me almost my lifetime up till now to actually be okay with not only be okay, but recognize the brilliance and the blessing of being human. And being born into the family I was born into, and into the experiences that I experienced, to help me to be to remember to become aware of this is not a punishment, this is

Brandon Handley 6:57 what I mean, I don't know about you, it's just another experience the same way that we experienced any other sensation. We're having this? You know, I guess if we were to say it in one way, if this is basically our life sensation.

Debbie Moran 7:10 Yes. Yes, our experience of those things that if we truly are one, then I say that because I feel that and I believe that and I have a knowingness of that. However, we don't experience that full, that full expression of that all the time, because otherwise we wouldn't be having these senses that we have are these thoughts that come through, or these words that we're able to express these are things that the theory is we came to experience what we are not to remember who we are, and that's kind of

Brandon Handley 7:47 right, and, you know, I think that that's always, that's always a challenge, and you'll get like some eye rolls from people that haven't, I guess, experienced that space. Right, that happened kind of gone through some of those, those those those developments. And I think that, um, since it's such a subjective experience, you can't really you can't really, you can't really impart it on anybody else. Right, you can just all you can do is be like, Well, okay, I mean, I can just tell you from what I've experienced, and what I've gone through. And, you know, maybe if you these are some signals, right? Have you experienced this, that or the other thing, okay, then maybe, right. I like and I like in that experience to the idea of Joseph Campbell's, the hero's journey, right? When when, you know, when you hear the call of the hero, like, that's, that's kind of like your wake up call, right? That's, and you don't have to, you don't have to respond to it, but it's not gonna, it's not going to go away. Right, right. And it's kind of what you do after that, or each time it comes along, what do you do with it?

Debbie Moran 9:01 And it doesn't look the same for any individual. Right now. I work with a lot of people and a lot of families and a lot of times one family member will come to me to actually work on another. And I always bring them in first, especially as children or spouse, because, you know, it may look like the other person's not doing their work, but just because they're not doing it the same way you're doing. It doesn't mean they're not doing your work.

Brandon Handley 9:26 That's right. That's right. Right. And that's, that's a challenge. I mean, how, how was it for you to kind of overcome that idea, right? Yeah, the idea of, well, that person is not doing the work that person, I know, they're not doing the work and then you got to do it like this. You got to do it like that. And, you know, because I, I bring that up because when, you know some of my first experiences were similar to that until like, there was like this point was like, wait, wait a second. Your experience is going to be totally different than mine. I don't know what you're actually transfer is gonna be but yes. Right. So Where, where? Where did I mean? Where Where did that come into sight for you?

Debbie Moran 10:11 Again, it's deepened through my whole process. But I really kind of came in with the ability to see a person's soul that actually created problems for me a lot of times because I would see their soul and ignore their behavior. And I'm sure many people have had that experience. So it actually took me a long time to actually be aware that I could see their soul but I needed to pay attention to their behavior. So it was like, in a way, I wasn't holding others accountable. I was holding myself accountable for the world around me. So it was it felt very heavy and very burdensome. And so I I very early went to nature. Actually, I grew up Pentecostal. So I kind of grew into that indoctrination, which is I had a Pentecostal.

Brandon Handley 11:04 Okay. That's right. Yeah. Holy rollers. Right. Right. Right. I, you know, I, there's, I think there's a, from what I've heard, I kind of think that there's a grain of truth to, to, to that whole series. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm a fan,

Debbie Moran 11:23 lifetime journey to actually realize that Sunday was the day of Pentecost, and for the first time ever, I actually understood what that meant.

Brandon Handley 11:32 What is it? So what does that mean?

Debbie Moran 11:34 Pentecost is theoretically what is today, like 50 days, 10 days, meaning 50 days after the the resurrection of Christ. And what happened is, it's also the Jewish day of harvest. And from the Bible perspective, is the Jewish day apartness, that 50 days after the resurrection of Christ, and all of the disciples came together, and all of a sudden, they were all speaking in a language that no matter is funny. We started out with saying there are only those who can understand through you, right, in this any cost theory is that the apostles spoke in the language that whoever they were speaking to, could understand.

Brandon Handley 12:18 Yeah, that's, that's it? Yeah. I think it's beautiful, right? I mean, I see. Yeah, yeah. I think that i think that's pretty cool, right? If you can be in a place and you know, no matter what, whoever you're speaking to understand you. And I think that that's really, again, this space, right? Once you kind of get into this space, there's maybe there's a little, maybe there's a little dance, right? And then but then you just kind of land on Yep. Okay, cool, then then we're speaking the same language. Right. So, so real similar, I think in that right. And, you know, and so, I wouldn't take that literally, that's how I would see it, right. So kind of like this, you know, symbolic and or, you know, our allegoric kind of way. So very cool. Now, I love that. So, what, yeah, let's talk a little bit about the book that you you've put out.

Debbie Moran 13:06 Okay, so here's a picture of it. And it's interesting. It's called true love's kiss, and keep it simple, sweetheart. There you go. Yeah, books in one. Sure. And true love's kiss is it came to me. It's interesting, because I was writing, I was doing a 90 day book writing course, I have like books written everywhere, but none of them ever actualized. And I was in the middle of writing a different book. And all of a sudden, it got derailed. After the 90 days, I was ready to start putting it into book form, and is like, no, that goes away. This is what you're writing. And these characters came through these fictional names came through. And all of a sudden, I was like, Genevieve, who's genetti. What is this? So then I had this and I couldn't even like spelling, it wasn't even like the easiest names or names I would have chosen. So I started these, these voices, these names, these characters came through and started writing the story of a mother daughter, that like the birth of a daughter and the mother daughter relationship, all the way through the first chapter of her life. True from birth to 21. And so that that's the first part true love's kiss. It's the story told in fairytale form, from the perspective of a mother and daughter of what happened in their lives. And what it does is it shows how patterns or patterns emerge and how they're actually solidified and rigidify it and they become habits and then how they're unconsciously repeated.

Brandon Handley 14:40 What would be an example of that out of the book maybe?

Debbie Moran 14:44 Um, okay, so what I talked about earlier is being able to see an individual so in ignoring their behavior, and then constantly just saying, Okay, I'll forgive that behavior, but still not hold them accountable and go back and just kind of repeat the same thing over and over and over. And so there was that, and then there's so there's a dynamic around finances and money. So the consciousness here is about what is love? What is this this life I've come to live? And what is this money thing? You know, what is this all about? Why do we need this? And why are people saying one thing and doing another or not saying what they need. So it's it's story after story of just the pattern. And it was, it was brilliant how the mother and the daughter, we're parallel, but you kind of got both of their perspectives. And that's awesome.

Brandon Handley 15:41 That's awesome. So and so I guess, you know, the inspiration came from, you know, just basically these these figures coming forth for you, right, just kind of showing themselves,

Debbie Moran 15:53 they did show themselves. And then but the inspiration was, I don't know if it was a parallel like or what, but it was from Miami like,

Brandon Handley 16:02 Sure. Okay. That's great. That's great to know. And then so we, you know, we do I think you talked a little bit about the patterns. And then there was some more, I think that talks about, you know, the concept of belief systems.

Debbie Moran 16:17 Oh, very much. So, yeah. systems, habits, patterns, they all are just another word for a way that we rigidify ourselves and limit ourselves, and, and forget the brilliance or the divinity of the birth of ourselves.

Brandon Handley 16:38 You know, how is it then, you know, so as we forget, is there a way that you have come across or can think of that would prevent us from forgiving?

Debbie Moran 16:50 You know, it's funny, because I said this to mark recently, and he's like Devi, everybody talks about that, the breath,

Brandon Handley 16:57 the breath,

Debbie Moran 16:59 in breath. I mean, I have gone through an endless array of encyclopedias full of studies myself, different masters, different philosophies, and different religions and spiritual practices. And I put them all into action. And yet, I feel like part of the message here is the remembrance of that simplicity of the breath. I mean, literally, the breath is the first thing we take when we come out of the womb. Sure. And they've done scientific studies that show that when a person dies, the breath until that last breath is exhaled. Like that weighs six ounces, from what I understand, it's like they measured the breath. Exhale was six ounces. And that's like, essentially your spirit. Right? So that's our luggage.

Brandon Handley 17:50 Did they get the six ounces? Uh, yeah, I hadn't heard that. I hadn't heard that, that they nailed down a number. That's very interesting to hear.

Debbie Moran 17:57 That way, don't quote me. Do you remember six pounds?

Brandon Handley 18:01 Yeah, that'd be interesting. If we could find a I'd love to, I'd love to know kind of where that came from. I'll look it up and see, Yeah, that'd be great if we could share that out. Because again, you know, I agree to the breath, being this kind of kind of a recall, right? If we've been breathing this certain way, and we've been doing it incorrectly our entire lives. And that's the, you know, the easiest, the number one thing that we do, what else have we gotten wrong? As is my question, right?

Debbie Moran 18:36 You're not breathing, when you're not breathing freely. First of all, the breath, it's the rest of our lives. Man, he is the Bible quote here and God breathed life into the man the nostrils of mankind. So for sure, if we are not breathing, we're cutting off our connection to that to that source, that we are legislating through us experiencing through us. And when we do that, we don't make good choices.

Brandon Handley 19:10 Fair enough. Fair enough. would would you be able to point to any breath exercises or breath work that have had an impact on you throughout your life?

Debbie Moran 19:21 What does so many have done to Gong and everything and done the yogic practices, but the simplest breath that I've come back to, is to keep it simple, sweetheart. That's it. Breath of just in the nose, out the mouth, in the belly of the belly. And it's just and then gradually, there's a Buddhist smile meditation. So they gradually as you increase and bring the breath to without, without mentally thinking about it as you bring the breath into an even in an even exhale, but then you gradually add a smile. And what that does is that increases the end Do orphans in your body nice and has your body start to produce those endorphins, those chemicals that actually do help you stay clear in your thinking and in your feeling in your, in your physical body. make good choices.

Brandon Handley 20:14 Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I think that when you're creating love the fact that we are these walking chemical factories, we are, right and that we have the capability to generate, whichever chemical we we did we dictate that right? You're talking about being able to go in and say, you know, right now, right now, this is what I need, I need to feel gratitude. And my body's gonna respond and create these kinds of these, these endorphins, right. And so it's gonna, it's gonna send out like, these kinds of things that are making my entire body feel good. So knowing that you're This is walking chemical factory, I think that's just another another thing that along the path is very empowering.

Debbie Moran 20:58 It is. And and when you get that you recognize that you have everything you need. And by breathing in, and by the right chemicals being produced, what happens is you start seeing these seemingly synchronistic events where suddenly the right resources like, like, you reach out to me and say, Hey, you want to do a podcast?

Brandon Handley 21:19 So So I mean, I think I think you know, that just to your story, really, is it that you've always felt like this connection to source and you've always, you've always just kind of surround yourself by it was just a matter of how to really bring more of it into your life and be accepting of it in your life. And then, kind of letting it play a greater part in your life where again, we're here not here being you know, Debbie, the human, you're here being Debbie, the spiritual being having the human experience. Is that is that fair?

Debbie Moran 21:56 No, I am. Before I was rejecting being human. I was like, I am not this. What How did this happen?

Brandon Handley 22:06 That's funny. Yeah, no, that's good. That's good. Now, so I mean, I think that that touches on a pretty, pretty key point, too, because this whole experience is you. Yeah, yeah. And and I think that it's really easy for people to reject their body and spirituality, right in favor of spirituality. You want to talk a little bit about how you you've maybe merged, merged those two pieces yourself? Yes.

Debbie Moran 22:34 Well, part of the benefit of but the way I came in with this kind of dynamic of rejecting was became my big key, I became very physical. I was very athletic, always, I always love to dance, and those kinds of practices, and just I just had this awareness as I was writing this book. I, it really helped me remember I was in a body. So it helped to keep me grounded. And so what that what occurred with that is, I started realizing, and as I started accepting my role, right, rather than wanting to just go off onto a mountaintop somewhere, or an island, and just kind of living in peace, I started accepting my role. And I began teaching something called Body Talk. And the body talk was a really big key factor for me in terms of that put me on my spiritual path in a way where things started integrating and a structure was built within me to where I could actually tap into my intuition even more. So I came to realize that too often through our spiritual and religious practices, we talk about transcending the body. And that in itself is a rejection. So I don't feel like that's the case. I feel like we greatly misunderstand our physical bodies. We are like these walking galaxies. And we greatly misunderstand the capability of them. Because we watched nature and assumed that that is the pathway of this body. So that's what we create. So it's really unlearning the indoctrination of that is the way of biology because biology, I feel like our bodies are deliberately evolving into these light bodies that can bring that can actually bring in more of our source energy, so that we can actually fulfill an even greater, unimaginable way of being Yeah, no, I

Brandon Handley 24:38 think that makes sense. It's the idea of if we think about if we think about any type of conduit or anything that if we don't treat it properly, I'm thinking right now have a battery cables, right. And sometimes they get corroded and if they do, you let all this corrosion come through then then the juice doesn't go through. Right. And so if we neglect our bodies and this thing, this is really what allows us to be like those conduits of divine energy. Exactly. Right. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So I love that. I love that. So, um, before we I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions. Maybe like one, we'll start with one, see where it goes. Because basically, the idea here is that this is a spiritual speed dating. So right, like, so there's going to be somebody on the other side, that's like, you know what, I'm looking for my next spiritual date. And Deb, you may be it. So, but it's all gonna hinge on what your answer to this question. And the question is gonna be? Ooo, let's figure Oh, man, let's

Debbie Moran 25:49 spiritual speed dating,

Brandon Handley 25:51 speed dating. Say yesterday? What is your one wish for the world?

Debbie Moran 26:03 That we wake up? And that we actually have to tap into see the divine vessels that we were designed to be? What would that look like? I Well, I've been saying multiple things about part of my role is to, and history as we know it. And to awaken to awaken the remembrance that heaven never left Earth. And it's just right here, as soon as we are able to open our eyes and be able to see it and experience it, and be it.

Brandon Handley 26:39 Have you been able to have that experience yourself?

Debbie Moran 26:42 I feel like I have been ironically, these last couple years when the world is in turmoil. I mean, I feel all of that out there. But I had this bliss, that experience of being able to work at home, I do all remote work. And I was able to write this book during that time. And I live in a home with a partner who, who has a different, much different approach than I do, but he's conscious. And we hold ourselves accountable in this conscious relationship. So it's like, we basically say, you know, I'm in charge in my my consciousness and my awareness, and you're in charge of yours. And if either of us feels out of integrity with that, we're gonna call the other on it. And ourselves. And I live in a home in Florida, Sarasota, one of the most, it so many people are coming here. But I live in a home where we can open up all our doors and windows and be outside from the inside. So it's like living in the inside out, which is kind of a great metaphor for what I choose to do, living from the inside out, or is market say living from the suicide?

Brandon Handley 27:51 For sure, for sure. Living from the soul side, I love it. Let's have one more we have time for another question. You know, you're talking about this as we started kind of being present. So what does it mean to live in the present moment.

Debbie Moran 28:13 It means to breathe fully, and allow space for your presence to come through, rather than having a preconceived idea of what that's supposed to do. When I find when I do that, it's like, time slows down. The words come through. It's not Debbie, the incarnate speaking. It's God, the incarnate speaking through it. And so it's this ever evolving discovery of the wonders of what this length is all about.

Brandon Handley 28:58 That's great. So I mean, it's a being present to what is,

Debbie Moran 29:05 right and what is because that's all there is. And you can you can another just a simplistic description of that is true. Many people worry about the future. So it robs them of the moment. And there's so much beauty and grace in this world that's being missed. And as a consequence of that, not being given. It's the grace, the glory is do is there. If we're if we're actually just to take that moment, to consciously we're never out of the moment. We just often think we have to take that moment of breathing into this space. It's like the miracle of life shows.

Brandon Handley 29:54 I think that's wonderful and I agree. It's the idea of it's all Present, right, those moments that you're talking about, they're always available. Sometimes we get caught up in some other moments, some other thoughts and worries, some concerns. And really, when we look back at those moments, when we are worried and concerned, we're like, why did I expend so much time and energy in that space? And when this other thing was available to me, you know, kind of whatever that was, but chances are, what you expended your time and energy on at that time, there was something better available for you at that time. Right. So, agreed, agreed. And I think that, you know, that's a brilliant point. That's not just because I agree, but you know, so where can I send people to find more out about Moran and the book that you've got out?

Debbie Moran 30:51 Okay, um, I have a website buddy talking beyond. And I've actually put on the front page, there is a link where you can go buy the book from Amazon if you choose to, but you can go to body talking beyond calm and on the front page, it can lead you to more information about me as far as the bio and everything and also to the link to the book where you can just go to to Amazon and look for to less kids by giving land and its loved with an apostrophe s so

Brandon Handley 31:24 so And where would somebody if they want to get in contact with you? How can they do that?

Debbie Moran 31:30 They could get contacted through there is a form on my body to on my body talking to me on website, or they can just email me at debbie dot Moran dot [email protected]

Brandon Handley 31:43 thank you so much for being on today.

Debbie Moran 31:45 My pleasure. Thank you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:01 Good morning Good day whenever I find you this way Hey man so what's going on this morning happy when it's my morning your whenever hope that is a great whenever that you happen to be having got some good podcasts coming up for you this weekend got Debbie more range She is an author she is she has this a special specific modality that she teaches. And I think that that's what's beautiful about the world these days, there's so much that that's opening up where people find a way that has worked for them. And it's been an I think the word is amalgam when you know, it's a mixture of different methodologies combined into a singular one that has proven beneficial for that person. And typically, they're also able to recreate that for someone like yourself. So I encourage you to check that out this weekend. I think that you'll enjoy the conversation with Debbie and hopefully you've been enjoying the conversations that come through time after time. Dude, are you don't you go?

Unknown Speaker 1:19 What are you people doing?

Unknown Speaker 1:21 Please?

Brandon Handley 1:24 Your kindness is slowing everything down. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 1:28 So

Brandon Handley 1:30 the I was just I was just reminded, I heard a trigger word ice cream. And how you know, when when you want something, and you don't have it, there is there's suffering. And it was listening to was listening to my man Swami Ji, Swami servie, or SAR via Priya Nanda. I can say it I know I can't, I can't, I don't have it in front of me. Anyways, Swami Ji is he's given this, he's given this talk. And he's talking about the whole idea of you to want his suffering. And there's two ways that you can go about eliminating that particular suffering. And it goes a little bit like this, it's like if you, if you if you want the ice cream, you have to, you have to figure out how to go get it, right, maybe you don't have any ice cream at home. So now you need to figure out if you've got the money for it. And then you need to either have it delivered. We live in such a society now that first thing we think of is should I just have this delivered rather than leave the house Personally, I would. I'm an adventure. So I like to leave the house to go do things see people experience the experience, whatever that is. And then you have to wait line, you have to decide which particular ice cream you want. And then you get the ice cream. And then once you have the ice cream, the desire to have the ice cream

Unknown Speaker 3:26 has ceased.

Brandon Handley 3:30 And thus, your suffering for the desire of the ice cream has come to an end. Something that Swami shares out is the the other way to eliminate the desire for suffering, or is to simply eliminate that desire for the ice cream, there's a need to have it because once you have made the decision that you desire that ice cream and you make that desire so strong, so powerful. So must that want becomes almost a need that's driving me the only thing that's filling your mind and it won't go away until you've had it. So that suffering lasts for an extended period of time until you get the ice cream now the other the other option is to simply not desire the ice cream. Once you realize that you've got that desire and it's beginning to drive you you can remind yourself that that is suffering you are in the midst of suffering that that desire and that that momentary need that's filling you to have that ice cream. is what's causing you the pain and the suffering? So Your other option is just to say, you know what, I actually, I don't need it. Right, that is a way to end the suffering. And I think that there's a lot of things that we have in our lives that we want to look at. So nobody's saying don't want and don't desire, but realize that that is where the greater portion of your suffering is coming from. And realize that it is your desire for that end state, as the only thing in mind that creates the suffering. And a couple it with the trust the process piece, I know that Megan, I get fun little conversations about this one, she's like, I hate it when people say trust the process,

Unknown Speaker 6:05 right?

Brandon Handley 6:06 And the thing is, is that trust the process, because it works. And what does that mean? explicitly? It means that if you focus on the pieces that take you to the end goal, the individual parts that make up the hole, and you're there now be here now be present, then that's the process, what are the pieces that you believe you need in order to get to your destination, and then the put everything, put all of your energy into those moments. And then the process gets you there, wherever your angle is, almost as a byproduct of just focusing on the process, so the destination, so almost a given should you decide that you're going to put put the time into whatever that process is. And then the final key part of all that is that

Unknown Speaker 7:31 look,

Unknown Speaker 7:33 maybe

Brandon Handley 7:36 just maybe you don't get to that specific and destination, perhaps a scenario is that you've got a sales presentation and you know, that you are presenting versus some other customers or some other competitors. And all you can do is do everything you know how to prepare for the event. Do the research, do your best to understand the customer. put everything together as best as you can. And at that time. And present. And as long as you put everything that you had into it, that's the time that you knew how then there's a good reason to feel good about what you've done. And the other person that really brings this brings us one home is john wooden. Who if you're not familiar with him, super famous basketball coach, who would constantly say, you know, the only person who knows whether when the scoreboard tells one story, right? But the idea is that if you've gone out there and you've given it your best, and in that situation, you know you've won, it's about giving it your best, and being honest with yourself and investing in the process, investing in the small pieces again, that make up the hole and you're going to be able to feel good, you should feel great about what it is that you're doing. And again, this is also just Is that what you want to be doing, you know is is your end are the is the process to a desired end state that is truly desired. And can you align that to your purpose and value so I put a lot into that one for you. But the the initial piece is you can end suffering anytime you'd like most of times if you just realize that It's something that you want. And it's something that you may or may not need. And if it's something that you don't absolutely need, you could just think to yourself, you know what, I can eliminate this suffering right now. And I didn't want that I wanted something else, or I want something else, instead of that, something else is more important than that. And the other piece of this was the idea of wanting something so bad, but then all you want is that end goal, like I want a million dollars of I don't have a right now I'm gonna be miserable for life. So it's very rare that you get a million dollars with the drop of a hat. So there's a process that's involved. There are many, many endless examples of that. And you could follow one and put that into, put that into action in your own life. And follow that process until you find that process is not working for you, and you can switch the processes fine. The thing is, be be there in the moment in the process that you are creating. And do that as best as you can in alignment with purpose and values. And to me, that's sufferings gone then, right? If you look at all those pieces, take all those pieces, he put them together, where is the suffering, the suffering is generally it's in your mind. And if it's in your mind, and your mind is within your control, by focusing on the process, and the idea that something is a want versus a need, then should be pretty good about ending suffering. So there you go. There you have it. I have ended your suffering for life. You are welcome to this weekend for Debbie, and have a great time. Thanks for tuning in. And if you're enjoying this podcast, please share this particular one with a friend and say hey, I have a way for you to end suffering. And here it is. You are welcome. Happy Holidays, enjoy your summer all that jazz. Or you could also go to iTunes. Give me 20 thumbs up five stars and just say hey, you've really enjoyed this podcast and there is actually a way to end suffering. Find out

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Hung out with Eric Nies on this episode to better understand his journey and a bit more about plant medicine as well as our connection to the self!

A little bit about Eric:

Eric Nies is best known as the teen idol from MTV's "The Real World/New York," the first ever reality show launched in 1992, and the host of one of the world's most watched dance program, "MTV's The Grind," viewed in over 90 million homes around the world. "MTV's The Grind" became so popular that Eric released "The Grind Workout" a multi-platinum video series. For the following 10 years, Eric made numerous appearances on talk shows, MTV programs including "Real World Challenges," movies, as well as appeared in magazines and advertising campaigns. As one of reality television's biggest stars, Eric was inducted into the Television Hall of Fame as one of the "Pioneers of Reality Television." Throughout his career, Eric's greatest passion has been to help people, children, and the planet. He has started numerous organizations, movements, and projects to help build awareness for health and well-being for all life on earth.

Connect and follow Eric's journey over at his website: https://iamericnies.com/ as well as on instagram @ericnies333

Brandon Handley 0:41 Hey there spiritual dope. I am on there today with Eric nice, Eric has a he's got what I would call like, you went through like this kind of like a fame addiction, right? Like the fame tunnel kind of came out of that back in the day with a you know, empty V's real world, one of the you know, one of if not the first kind of reality TV show that was going on out there. But since then, you have taken this just incredible journey into like, the spiritual realm, all the way from like, you know, the Korean martial arts masters through like, you know, you've got your hooked up down there in Peru, right with some of these some medicinal practices, Native American practices, and like, these things are super exciting. And he's really glad to have you on here today,

Eric Nies 1:36 man. Yes, thank you very much for having me. Sure.

Brandon Handley 1:40 So one of the things that I always start this podcast off with is the idea is that we're vessels for source, right. And that source is kind of flowing through us at all time. And the idea is that somebody listened to this podcast today. And like I told you, like, so you're gonna change somebody's life today, just by showing up. Eric, right by being on this podcast. And there's a certain message is coming through you that can only be delivered through you to that person. What would you say that messages today?

Eric Nies 2:12 acceptance. Total acceptance of yourself. Unconditional Love of yourself, relationship that you have with yourself is probably the most important thing in somebody's life. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 2:31 What would you say? The that journey kind of look like for yourself? getting to that point?

Eric Nies 2:37 Oh, wow. It's been many, many years. And I've been on a spiritual journey, probably for about 30 years of my life, starting, you know, hero's journey, for me, you know, that just going through many valleys of darkness. Going into these places, you know, into the shadow and into the ego and into the fears and the judgments and the insecurities and all those things that we carry around, you know, with us and, you know, to just go in into the darkness to be able to come out in the lake. I think that's what, you know, my journey pretty much has been all about. Now, for sure, would you

Brandon Handley 3:27 happen to have like, any moment where you feel like you really grasped onto the idea of self acceptance?

Eric Nies 3:34 for yourself, I've had many, many, many moments. Yeah.

Probably about 10 years working with iwoca, and mushrooms. With the passing of meditation, just really wanting to understand how to liberate the soul from from its own suffering. But it wasn't until I started looking into the depths of ancestral lineage programming, and going back into my past lives, to understand you know, why I feel the way that I feel today? What What is, what is my life mean? What, what is the purpose of my life? Why am I here? Where did I come from? Where am I going? Now? What's the bigger picture of why we're here on planet Earth? I don't think many people really have an understanding of, of why we're here. I think you know, that that question lingers in every human's mind. You know, why are Why are we here? You know, who am I? Sure, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 4:55 What's your answer so far? What have you landed on to this point?

Eric Nies 5:00 I think we're all part of a grand experiment between light and dark, kind of like a game. I think it's, you know, it's an experiment that's been going on for a long, long, long time. And I think darkness has has won most of the time, and I believe that there's been resets, you know, I think that's why we see, you know, ancient remnants of ancient civilizations. And so, yeah, I just think it's a game, and how, and how do you play the game is really what it's all about? Sure. So

Brandon Handley 5:38 like, kind of the idea of you are the creator, almost of the game that you're playing? would you would you put it like, into that term?

Eric Nies 5:46 Absolutely. Okay. I mean, we are, you know, we're infinite potential creators, we're obviously creators, because we can create another life. So we're constantly, you know, creating the life that that we're experiencing. Right? So yeah, for sure. We're creators.

Brandon Handley 6:07 And we say, like, kind of a reset you thinking like matrix resets? type deal?

Eric Nies 6:12 I think of, you know, yeah, entire reset of a civilization, you know, looking back to Egypt and Atlantis and the Maria and all these ancient civilizations that were, you know, thriving at one point or another, right, but something happened. And now, where did they go? Right, like,

Brandon Handley 6:33 just the total reset there, um, the, the Grandmaster that you hope hooked up with. And for those of you tuning in, I would recommend just kind of go to, I'm Eric nice and read some more of his story, because I'm gonna, we only have 30 minutes. So I'm gonna dig into some of the questions I've got about your story. Right? So when you hung out with the Grand Master, then this is just more tongue in cheek than not, but like, Did he give you an answer for the pyramids?

Eric Nies 7:01 That's a great question. Yes. What did he say?

Brandon Handley 7:06 Yeah, what was the answer on that one?

Eric Nies 7:09 I mean, they moved. A lot of, you know, ancient civilizations such as Egypt. Their minds were very, very powerful. You know, and we're talking about an infinite possibility of consciousness. You know, we do we kind of live in a society, and in a world now where we're actually accessing that very, very small amounts of of that and actually utilizing consciousness. You know, or not utilizing consciousness the way that it it actually could be used. But yeah, my grand master was, was really profound, he could do things that would just blow your mind.

Brandon Handley 8:00 Very hard to believe. And I let me I love that story, too. Because it makes like, I'm like, that just seems like the ultimate experience. I mean, like, I've watched a lot of Kung Fu, but I never got to have that experience. Like, you know, where the guy goes and gets to stay with the Grandmaster. And like, you did the things that are like, truly like Moody, yes, but this was like, that was your life, and it was legit. And I think that that, like, really cool. So you've been on this journey? I mean, you know, 20, almost 30 years now. Right? Um, one of the things that I think is really cool is that you're using some of this plant based medicine to help people with their addiction recovery. Could you walk me through what that might look like? If I came up to him like, hey, Eric, I'm ready. I'm ready to kick the habit. Let's go on this journey. Can you tell me a little bit about what that may look like?

Eric Nies 8:44 Yeah, sure. Well, I mean, on the physical level, if you have to, obviously detox the physical body, from the chemicals and the drugs, that person's using in those things, they come with a heaviness, a frequency and a vibration that is much heavier. You know, then you are in your air, fire, water and earth, Earth shoot Earth suit. You know, so on the physical side of things, you have to go through a very deep detox, you know, once we go through the physical part of it, and then we get into the emotional and psychological reasons for why you are addicted. Where does that come from? What's the root cause of your addiction? And so then that gets into the subconscious mind that gets into your childhood that gets into traumas, and all different things that have happened to you not only in this life, but in your past lives. Understand why you behave the way that you behave. And we look at the emotional content of your behavior. Why do you behave the way that you behave? And are your emotions controlling you? Or are you controlling your emotions? And so then you have the physical, the emotional and the psychological and the bring them all together, and it becomes a spiritual journey. But the real understanding is, you know, ancestral lineage programming, you know, how were you imprinted and program from these behavior patterns from your family?

Brandon Handley 10:33 And you do like you say, you kind of you kind of goes down like this quantum cellular reprogramming level. Can you talk a little bit more, share a little bit more about what that's like? And you know, what goes into that?

Eric Nies 10:47 You're talking about quantum cellular, I think you're talking about the cyber

Brandon Handley 10:51 skin. Is that is that what I'm talking about? Because Yeah, there it is the quantum cellular balancing. Right? Yes, about that.

Eric Nies 10:57 That's a Tesla technology. That was a device that was created by a German physicist that uses, you know, quantum quantum physics to to help to heal the body. But that that's outside.

Brandon Handley 11:12 Yeah, sorry. That's outside of the addiction recovery. Like that's something separate from that.

Eric Nies 11:17 Yeah, that that that was a business that I was a part of, of my business, I would use it sometimes for rehabilitation, but it's not really necessary. The real key is getting to the root cause of the issue. Once you find the root cause of the issue, then the addiction is over. Right. Now, what about

Brandon Handley 11:41 plant medicine involved? The Addiction Recovery? Is that a part of the process as well?

Eric Nies 11:48 Yeah, can be amid the program that I created, which is called the beauty way, which I've been using for about 15 years. Plant medicine is not a part of that. But in some cases, if there's a lot of resistance, and they need to, like break through the different things that are happening with the individual plant medicine could be very, very beneficial. Like I was gonna actually does the work for you. So my program would be bringing somebody into the desert for three to four weeks. It's it's all natural superfoods breath, work, grounding, meditation, you know, really diving into, you know, that person's childhood. But with Iosco you just drink Iosco, what I call the rails. Yeah, hold the rails and attend the shows everything.

Brandon Handley 12:46 You fair fair enough. Yeah. Um, you know, one of the things that I think, you know, I read your documentary, and I listened to something you were doing last year doing this, you know, taking in this plant medicine, right? He's, I think it was like three, three plants that you were you know, getting to know, right, you had to know me no loud music, no sex with yourself or anybody else. Like I mean, is that journey complete? Where are you at in that process?

Eric Nies 13:16 Um, yeah, that's a data that I was on for about a year you diet these specific plants, either for healing or for the transfer of knowledge. But yeah, my my idea to is it's close since then.

Brandon Handley 13:35 would you would you mind sharing Would you be able to share the plants that you can you did the journey with and what some of the takeaways were with that?

Eric Nies 13:43 Yeah, absolutely. The the first two that I dieted for eight months was run Akita and swell the can swelled up, and when Akita is, is actually a tree, and it assists you with rage and anger and swell the welder is a plant and that's more for a heart opener also swelled as well the console is used to help heal your, your skeletal structure. So I had issues with my spine, I had a couple of slipped slipped discs that I that I wanted to work on and so they suggested swell that can swell the for that and then read Akita was for rage and anger that I was holding on to from traumas in my childhood. And morosa is the third plant that I diet and she's considered the queen of the aquatic kingdom. And she she's more of a heart opener as well. She's very beautiful and loving and kind and so my process was to heal from the traumas in my life and the plants helped me to do that. And that At the same time, they helped me to open up my heart and to, you know, walk a life of beauty and unconditional love with no judgment.

Brandon Handley 15:13 I think that's really cool. I think that first one, the rage release or one, I think that needs to be sold like in bulk right across, like, across the country, right? I think we could all use a little bit of that. And I want to kind of flip back to, right before you got into this space, you know, as you were doing like a bunch of book club and and, you know, the club music accuracy and all this other stuff. You know, seems like back in the early mid 90s. I was in the same scene, right? Similar scene, you were you were leading the scene. I was like, you know, showing up? But like, do you would you attribute any kind of like, you know, the music or any of like, the interaction it that time and space in place to get you to where you are today? Because I think, you know, Oh, yeah, yeah, if you're part of like any of the rave culture or anything like that, that was going on, it was all about like some of this stuff that we're talking about right now.

Eric Nies 16:16 I've had some incredible experiences in the club scene with ecstasy and ketamine and mushrooms and and all that. I mean, yes, I was still in a deep house said. So my vibe is more deep soulful house music. But if you are familiar with deep soulful house music and the where that originated from, you know, came from basically from churches in Chicago. And so very deep spirit, as a very deep spiritual side to the type of house music that I listened to. Right. And the messages are very, very spiritual. So it it assisted me keeping me alive and almost killing me at the same time, but the messages in the music really inspired me and opened up my mind to go on my spiritual journey. Yeah, so

Brandon Handley 17:23 the curious about that, right. Because I agree with you, there's that there's that whole soulful, you know, vocal house music fan myself, right. And the messaging like you're talking about, it's like, it's uplifting, it's soulful. And you know, if I can dance it out a little bit, like, I'm okay with that at the end of the day, right? versus like, I don't know, some of the other messages that you get from somebody. So just it was just curiosity piece. Um, so the last kind of part of your documentary left us with you getting connected with this like Angel guy, right. And just kind of like this felt like there was a felt like, there was a cusp of transcendence happening right there. We want to talk a little bit about, you know, where we left off, and Eric nice documentary online, and, you know, kind of what's happened after that?

Eric Nies 18:16 Yeah, that's it, that guy's from Australia. And he mastered john, he communicates with angels. And I, a friend of mine invited me to go to his event. And I went, and then at the end of the event, they just by choice, they choose a couple of people that can go sit with him. And, yeah, just by chance, he, he chose me, and I can't really remember exactly, he was, it was just, I get a lot of confirmation, you know, intuitively, being on a spiritual journey, I have a lot of psychics and a caustic readers and mediums and grandmasters and shamans. And, you know, my life is just really about angels and demons. And so I get little bits of information about my life, about my path and my purpose and all those things, you know, year after year after year after year. So he was just another another guy, another healer that came into my life that was you know, reaffirming and confirming, you know, a lot of things that happened to me in my life, and from my life purpose.

Brandon Handley 19:42 I gotcha. So, as I'm kind of reading your story, I'm thinking of like you mentioned, Joseph Campbell's like, you know, the, the hero's journey right earlier. I'm thinking of like, you know, also just kind of surrendering yourself right to whatever kind of comes your way Way, has that been a big part of what you've done? Just kind of surrender to it and follow your bliss?

Eric Nies 20:08 Oh, absolutely. I mean, really, at the end of the day of the hero's journey, you put all of your trust into source into God, and trust that, you know, your soul, set things up a certain way. And by, you know, surrendering, you know, you, you actually can make your life a whole lot easier and a lot more magical. If you just get out of the way.

Brandon Handley 20:40 For sure. Absolutely.

Eric Nies 20:42 I mean, that's really the biggest problem for most is the mind getting in the way, and creating judgment, creating these stories that are not even real. So, you know, identifying your fears and your judgments, and being able to work through those and heal your you know, heal the inner child is the like the first step, but my path has been, you know, healing my ancestral lineage. So this goes back 1000s of years.

Brandon Handley 21:20 Like, very, if you were gonna describe somebody to somebody like what it means to heal your ancestral lineage, what would you say?

Eric Nies 21:33 Yes, so, you know, you're talking about your ancestors, you're talking about, you know, program, right, we're talking about behavioral programming, that gets passed down from one generation to the next, to the next to the next to the next, and it just keeps on going. So you know, the different behavioral programs that we inherit, from our ancestors, there's different types of behavior patterns. You know, a lot of us most, you know, we all we all deal with abuse on, you know, one level or another, whether it's physical abuse, emotional abuse, psychological abuse, or even spiritual abuse. And so this has been going on for 1000s and 1000s, of 1000s of years, here on this planet, you know, this, this planet is really a slave planet, to fear and judgment. But, you know, fear is something that we create, in our own minds, it's actually not real, it's an illusion. It's like the great illusion. And it's what keeps all of us collectively and consciously slaves to something that isn't even real. And this is, this is what the whole experience is about. So, ancestral lineage, healing, and the liberation of the soul. This is something that Jesus and Buddha spoke about. And it's their teachings that were left behind. You know, Buddha and Jesus both realize how to liberate themselves, from their own suffering. And what that looks like, is basically objective observation of the sensations or the suppressed emotion that are in your body. So if you can objectively look at yourself without judging yourself and without clinging to some blissful experience, and not judging, some gross experience, you can find the middle lane which Buddha, coining probably the word I think this word probably came from Buddha, which is equanimity, you know, to live your life economist and find the middle lane. You know, then you can find yourself in a very peaceful and harmonious place with yourself, and with nature, and humanity and the plant kingdom and the animal kingdom, and everything that exists here on planet Earth. And so the reason why you want to do that is because we live on a planet of duality. You have negative and you have positive energy here. Well, you don't want to go too far into the negative and you don't want to go too far into the positive because both can bring suffering. You want to find the middle lane, the quantumness Lane. And based off of my own personal experience, you know, this is just based off of what I've experienced in my own life. This isn't about reading a book or, you know, somebody else's teaching when working with plant medicine, and also working with possum, meditation, you know, that's where I've gone within myself personal was to look at the vibrations and the frequencies of the experiences that I've had in my life that my physical body hold on to energetically. But these, these, these, these frequencies in these energies, if they're not, if they're not in harmony and imbalance with air, fire, water and earth,

then they cause a disruption in your personal field. And then that can come with anxiety, depression, you know, where the physical body feels uncomfortable. But what Buddha experienced was the liberation of that, the release of all of that energy, not just from this life, but from your past lives. Because you bring that energy with you, your soul, your soul carries information, and frequency, and energy and vibration with it from one life to the next to the next to the next to the next. And it's also within your DNA. So that's ancestral lineage, healing, it's healing and transforming the energy of your lineage that is passed down from generation, the generation generation.

Brandon Handley 26:52 Awesome. So that means is, you know, just thinking like you're talking about, like, all these kind of like, energies come mishmash, together throughout time, I'm just thinking like, a messy ball a string, right? That you just got to spend time to undo right and, and loosen it up. So there's not a big, big old tangled mess. You know, thanks for thanks for sharing that. What is like something that you haven't been able to share out on a podcast or a platform that you've just been wanting to share out

Eric Nies 27:22 about that at all. I'm completely transparent with my life and all my experiences. vulnerability is my best friend. You know, I'm just here to be transparent, and to be fearless in my expression of everything that's happened to me, in my life. You know, if you look on my website, and you read my story, then you can see obviously, that I'm not shy about sharing everything that I've experienced. Now for sharing,

Brandon Handley 27:53 you've definitely shared some stuff understanding

Eric Nies 27:55 is that transparency and vulnerability is going to liberation.

Brandon Handley 28:02 Nice. The so what's next for you? Eric? I know you were talking about doing a healing temple sounds like you finished up with this. The plant journey what's what's next on dock for you?

Eric Nies 28:18 Yeah, I'm working on a book right now. And a second book coming through and earthkeeper book connecting with the people to create our temple you know, guiding people and assisting people sharing information with other people to help them to understand how to liberate themselves from their own suffering, and just exploring and journey around the world to share this information.

Brandon Handley 28:47 That's fantastic. That's awesome. Who should be reaching out to your click? I mean, are you do you know, what type of work are you doing right now and who should be reaching out to you?

Eric Nies 29:00 what people should be reaching out

Brandon Handley 29:02 like if they wanted if they want to work with you, are you still doing are you still doing like Addiction Recovery? Are you you know, saw your coaching So what kind of

Eric Nies 29:14 I am Yeah, I'm actually I'm going to be hosting a retreat here and in peace, AK and the sacred valley of Peru at the end of July. And yeah, anybody that's interested in healing and transforming their lives, wanting to understand how to liberate themselves from their own suffering. Anybody the whole World Fair enough. Fair enough. The

Brandon Handley 29:41 whole world's invited so wish we send everybody to connect with you where I am Eric nice, calm. Where else?

Eric Nies 29:51 Yeah, I am Eric. Nice, calm and then also my I got an Instagram channel into Derek. Nice. I think it's there. Nice. Three, three. Three from not mistaken. But yeah, pretty much Graham and also Facebook. I got a Facebook channel where I've taken, I got about 1515 years of footage. And we just finished documenting two weeks here in Peru with an Iowa Oscar retreat. And all of that is going to be available on my Facebook page on my fan page. Yeah, it's

Brandon Handley 30:35 awesome. Now that's pretty that's pretty, pretty intense. 15 years and then, you know, just this past couple weeks of Iosco well look man, I just want to say thanks for taking the time for showing up today. And you doing what you're doing, I think, opens it up for a lot of other people like your vulnerability, your journey, kind of what's possible if you do follow your bliss and being able to have a wonderful life if you kind of surrender to it the way that you have.

Eric Nies 31:08 Yeah, brother. Well, thank you very much for having me, Brandon and many blessings for you and your family on your journey. And I look forward to seeing what magic you create in your life. Appreciate it.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:00 Good morning, it's time to get up and go to work. And it's always been one of my favorite lines from the Beastie Boys, right? I don't remember what song that leads into. But it was always great. It's got it's got to be on Paul's boutique. Right? Paul's boutique was always one of my favorites. I still remember, still remember finding Paul's boutique for the first time? Like what the hell? Where's this? Ben? Right? Where has this been? such an amazing album. So Meg, and I go back and forth often on the whole idea of, of obviously, forcing something but needing to be have a muse, right, needing to have a muse needing the moment to be right to launch into your artwork or your thing, whatever it is that you do. And I think that, um, I think that what can happen is that you always wait for like that perfect moment. And sometimes the Muse doesn't strike you or or like, you've got so much. You've got so much riding on that muse. And you won't do something, because you're waiting for that perfect moment. And I was thinking about that this morning, as I was like, man, I really don't have a whole lot to share, per se. Or is it really the fact that you're kind of waiting for that perfect something. And a lot of times, and I don't do it as often as I'd like. But also there and I'll write it out. Sometimes the podcast some of the early podcasts that I did, especially with, especially with setting up the the beginning, the divine, to divine peace, right, when I did the framework for that, definitely set that up went through each one wrote it all out. And it was definitely well thought out, I felt like it was well thought out, at least it was thought out there was a completion it was done before it was done, as it were, the framework was there and I created it. And then, um, you know that that process in of itself was like, Alright, well, when you got the idea, just flush it out. And you just got you got the idea, just do it and take one run at it. And you always have the opportunity to take another run at it. But the deal is, is like, if you keep building a resistance, you know, to this thing that you want to do. But you don't feel like you've got the perfect thing that you can do for it, then you'll always kind of you always have that resistance there. It'll always be there. And you may never you may never, you may never overcome like that, that that tiny, tiny thing, right? That moment of perfection that moment of I know I can do so much better than this. This is crap.

You Why would I do? Why would I do this this thing and it's not the greatest. And I bring that up like I said this morning, I was like, you know, I haven't done them for a while. And I miss I miss doing all canaries sorry. You don't see them that often. The deal is is like you don't you get kind of stuck in like this pattern, right? You get stuck in a rut of not doing the thing that you want to do. So you never do it. And, you know, I would encourage you as you're, you know, thinking about that thing that you want to do, right? I'm doing the course a creative personal mastery with us. Sreekumar Rao, what a great course. And this week, we're doing a couple two different things. And the two different things that we're going through our mindfulness, which I feel you know, I I'm fairly mindful, I'm not perfect at it by any stretch of the imagination. But I am much more present much more aware and much more mindful these days than I have been in the past 40 years. I can definitely I can definitely say that. And the other piece is being bigger than your problem. Being bigger than the situation. I think being bigger than the situation is better than saying bigger than the problem. That's where this this comes in. That's the idea of, of what we're doing today is be bigger than the situation be bigger than where you're at and saying something to yourself like, well, this isn't perfect, well, maybe it's not perfect. But that's what begins the light leak. That's what begins the crack in the dam. That's what begins the everything for you, right, as soon as you begin to open up and let it trickle, you begin to let it trickle. And then it just it just at some point, it doesn't stop, it blows it all up, right blows it through. And I guess it creates an erosion effect of the dam. And over time, each little bit that you take action on each little piece is one more step closer to where it is that you want to be. And who it is that you say you would like to be. When you when you go through this process, are you making a left, I'm making a left, we're both making a left, I don't trust you ready? 123. All right, thanks for not hitting me, when when we both win, when you begin to take those steps towards the thing that you say you want to do. No matter how small no matter how imperfect, you begin to erode that dam and you begin to step more confidently. And what I mean by that, think about the baby steps. And if you haven't raised a child, then think about when you see a baby horse, right, a full, full, taking some of its first steps, and, and those legs are super wobbly. And they don't know, the horse doesn't know, the baby doesn't know, it doesn't have confidence in their capability of their limbs, and how are they going to work. And the next thing, you know, you can't find can't find the child. And and next thing you know, you've got that one year old, full, who's now cold is running. I think they usually three years old, but you know, they're running, they're running races, the run races that are literally running circles around you know, something else. And the idea is, once you begin to get your bearing, once you begin to get past that moment of, I guess it's like insecurity, of whether or not you feel like you have the perfect thing to say, you know, you begin to develop that confidence in yourself. And then you begin to just enjoy being that person who you are, there's a lot more joy in letting, letting anything out really anything that you express good or bad. But especially when you express something that is in line with who you believe yourself to be at that

time. And I say it like that because over time you're going to evolve and change and and i think that that's very important to realize and recognize as well. Your core ideas and beliefs may always be your core ideas and beliefs. But over time, like there's going to be the the the surroundings of those core ideas and beliefs are going to change and evolve and expand and whatnot. So who what is it that's in your life right now that you you've been you know, kind of waiting for the perfect moment where you've been waiting to shine your light, right? Like I wrote, I wrote something the other day that really talked about this talking about it was a quote talking about coming out of decisions made and fear are never as good as the ones that made are made and like the feeling of abundance and whatnot and when when you when you begin to open up right when you begin to shine, that light when you begin to feel who you are right the fear begins to recede and you begin to you begin, you begin to feel again, right you begin to feel safe again, you begin to feel whole again, as who you are, again within intention of being, being who and what you want to be. And to me, that's, that's very powerful. As you it'll allows you to see, it just allows you to feel more comfortable with who you are, right? And it doesn't, it doesn't have to be a big thing. What is it that you want to do that would be in alignment with who you are, that you kept yourself from doing. Because you feel like the moment needs to be perfect, or you feel like the moments not perfect. But all you got to do is just start, all you've got to do is just take one small action into into that space, and you'd begin to see yourself as the person that you you've been telling yourself that you are all this time. And to me, and for me, you know, this is all from experience. zahl from from experience for me and starting my first podcast and starting my second third, and being that person and being in alignment. And continuing to I don't want to say evolve, expand, I would say expand on the ideas that that I have had interactions that I've had and expand on who it is that I've become Who who are you being in the end, right? Who is it that you want to be and start showing up like that. And again, once you start taking those small, incremental steps into that, then you're going to feel you're going to you're going to feel that self confidence, you're going to begin to feel more at home. with yourself, which is which is kind of it's ironic, right? You're going to begin to feel that confidence. And when you do, you step into that. That's what everybody's always talking about kind of stepping into your power, right step into your power. Fuck the people that are like, stupid to your power. Or like you're stepping into your greatness. I remember talking to people at a convention years ago, and people really want to shy away from the fact that they are already great, right shying away from this, the idea that you are already everything that you need to be in order to be who you would like to be. And that's it. That's great. You know, everybody's wants the ideas, like everybody's endowed with the seeds of greatness. Right? You're, it's up to you to kind of nurture that and make it so and become the person that you'd like to become and in alignment with all the things. So hopefully, you know, like I said, so this one started off with like, just the idea of like, I just want to get in and do it again. I

haven't done one for a while. And for me, I feel like that came out. Okay. Right. And for me, I feel good because I got in and did it today, right? It's kind of like when you go to the gym, right? You don't. You don't always want to go to the gym. But when you're done, you're always glad that you went Alright, that's it guys take it easy and hit me up on spiritual dope Brandon at spiritual dope.co

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Tracy Lamourie,a high profile international award winning publicist, is he Founder and Managing Director of Lamourie Media Inc. a Universal Women's Network 2020 Woman of Inspiration Winner for the Women In Media award and the author of the upcoming book GET REPPED - Build Your Brand With Effective Public and Media Relations. She is a well known long time advocate on a myriad of important worldwide issues and an award-winning international publicist working across industries from major entertainment projects to small businesses. Tracy is passionate about amplifying important messages and being a voice for those who most need one. Recognized by media around the world for her 20-year campaign tht ultimately helped free an innocent man from death row to her work getting clients major media attention and for her local community work, she is the winner of the FIRST PLACE PLATINUM award Hamilton Spectator ReadersChoice for PR 2018, Diamond 2019.A frequent guest on TV, radio and high profile podcasts around the world on topics of leadership, empowerment, and entrepreneurship as well as all aspects of media and public relations.

Connect with Tracy: http://www.lamouriemedia.com/

Unknown Speaker 0:00 Your journey has been an interesting one up to hear you've questioned so much more than those around you. You've even questioned yourself as to how you could have grown into these thoughts. Am I crazy? When did I begin to think differently? And why do people in general appear so limited to this thought process? Rest assured, you are not alone. The world is slowly waking up to what you already know inside yet can't quite verbalize. Welcome to the spiritual dough podcast, the show that answers the questions you never even knew to ask. But you the answers to questions about you this world, the people in it? And most importantly, how do I proceed? Now moving forward? We don't claim to have all the answers but we sure do love living in the question. Time for another hit of spiritual dub with your host Brandon Handley. Let's get right to today's episode.

Brandon Handley 0:40 Hey there spiritual dope I'm on today with a special guests are all special, aren't they? Tracy Laurie is a high profile international award winning publicist and is the Founder and Managing Director of lemare Media Incorporated, a universal Women's Network 2020 woman of inspiration winner for the women in Media Award and author of the upcoming book, get wrapped. Those are brands with effective public and media relations. She is a well known longtime advocate on a myriad of important worldwide issues and an award winning international publicists working across industries, from major entertainment projects to small businesses, there is more you're gonna have, you're gonna have to go figure it out for yourself and check into that. Tracy, super excited to have you here. easily start these off with I know, we talked a little bit about, you know, kind of your spiritual journey, how you feel about woowoo. But we're just gonna throw this one out there anyways, for you, um, you know, kind of believe in the idea that, you know, source speaks through us at all times. Right. And while you and I are gonna have this conversation, there's a message coming through you today that somebody is going to hear on this podcast that can only be delivered through you. What is that message today?

Tracy Lamourie 1:53 Oh, I hope it's I hope at the end of the day, it's in line or not even lightning, just positive one. And I think that not that toxic positivity stuff, but the kind of positivity, where you walk away from it. You know, actually, yeah, I feel better. You know, I feel pretty good and pretty pumped now that I heard that they can do that. So, which is a lot that's spirituality too, because if we're not, you know, vibing on the right, you know what I mean? If we're not on the right, what do you even, you know, we take ourselves to different, like, if you're not on the radar, since I came into the world, but you know, that synchronicity or that, like, if we're vibing, low, we're gonna like it slow for vibing Hi, good things happen. So I feel like you're positive, you're open. So you want your you know, you want to be

Brandon Handley 2:40 positive? Yeah, absolutely. You know, you want to have that. You want to be on the right frequency. But thank you, for so so it was funny that Tracy, I was looking, I was looking at some of your profile, some of the people that you worked with, and some of the events that you've been in. While this is a spiritual dope podcast, I see. You've done some cannabis business ones as well. Right. So

Tracy Lamourie 3:07 for me, I mean, I was a Medical Cannabis Patient, but there are people who, you know, like that right? and stuff. So

Brandon Handley 3:13 yeah, yeah, look, I mean, it's like, it's all part of it. Right? You know, you can't convince me otherwise. And you know, just because just because somebody says, Yeah, it doesn't mean whatever. Anywho. So I think, you know, one of the things that we're going to talk about today is actually the genesis of how this podcast got started, which was, I've met up with a woman named Regina Lawrence, who had a pretty great spiritual, spiritual marketing business. That's right. And I think, I think the idea here is, you know, you've got some tools, and you've worked with some clients in the past, who have elevated their own spirituality, brand and blend and taking themselves out of this corner of like, you know, being like, why me or I shouldn't be the one. Let's talk about how, you know, somebody can leverage some PR to share their spiritual message, and quite possibly even make money a business out of it, heaven forbid, right? So let's talk about what that looks like. Or you know, just talk about maybe what you specialize and then we can get into

Tracy Lamourie 4:19 it all once. So basically, my business started because I was getting it wasn't to look for a company that would make me the most money or to you know, all the great things that happened to me as a result of this amazing PR company that started none of that was in my mind's eye was literally helping another person. And then the skills that I built over the years helping that person who ended up with an innocent man who was on death row was was released 20 years later, so factually innocent, but that's but my part of that story is the skills that I developed in terms well I mean, that was just volunteers that just out of passion and wanting to help this person who you know, like honestly, I'm so grateful that we that he's out because he taught us to have him on your on your podcast one day took them spiritual message, but um, Yeah, so basically, you know, we don't we can be, you know, I think it's a actually, it just struck me that I wanted to say this, because you know, we talk about spirituality, you talk about being chosen for something, or they feel called to something. And that's not the kind of language I normally use. But that's not in my vernacular, right. But when I look back on a 20 year campaign that I literally started as a 28 year old with zero money, no skills in this stuff. No, you know, it's like, it was fun, though, not because we were dumb enough or cared enough to be dumb enough to think we could make a difference. Who knows. But it's like that was assigned to us. That crazy thing that you couldn't even imagine, you know, we didn't think of it in those terms then. But you know, when you look back on it, what how did we how and why did we get it was it became a lifetime thing, like we're 51 for 2120 years, we do that campaign. And since then, it's been five years since Jimmy's been released, we still, you know, friends, we're now the republicans. He's a singer. And now we have a veto. We do that sounds good. But I mean, really, I think something like you call or you, you may feel like a spark and then even say, who calls you or whatever, but you're in a position. You are, you know, you are like there's a spark there that you can set off and that you can do something, but most people don't, because we don't have the confidence in ourselves, or we don't feel like, oh, why would it be me that would I can't do that. I can't. And that reminds me of the reasons it struck me even those Bible stories, you know, where all of a sudden God but like, and I'm not saying I'm by God, but all of us, every human being for whatever thing, right? You know, those stories, like God would say, do this, and then they'd be like, but me I'm not capable of that. I can't ever do that. I'm not the one pick someone more powerful. I'm not even a big Bible reader. But that's like a theme. There's a couple things you got in the Bible, right? where people were like, God specifically told them to do this. And they were like, well, it's not me pick someone else. So I think we all just say pick someone else, whether whether we believe it's a God doing that, whether we believe it's an idea whether we believe whatever it is, we often think that we're not good enough, like pick someone else. To do those big things. Someone else should be doing any I'll follow and do a little bit. But I think to me, my spiritual message that I've learned in my life is like you are called on to do less things. Everyone of us, not just me, Tracy, or you, Brandon, but all of us. And if we don't, we're leaving part of our responsibility behind you know, so when you do those good things, good things happen. Yeah.

Brandon Handley 7:21 So I mean, right. So you're speaking, just speaking the right language. Right. Yeah. And in terms of, you know, definitely following that spark, right. There's that spark that you? A lot of people will call that, if you're a fan of Joseph Campbell, and I'm not sure if you are the hero's journey for our myth, right? So it's the idea that that's the hero's call, right? That spark that that you kind of heard, right, that you felt it's kind of like the hero's call, and you can you can reply to it. Right? You can say, you know, not me, not today, but it's not really ever gonna go away. But it sounds like what happened was, you kind of had the hero's call, and you just answered it, you're like, Yeah, why not? Right. And the thing that happens is really is what you're saying is that, you know, once you, you hit on something to like, what you say you're dumb enough to believe that, you know, we can make a difference? Well, all you got to do is start taking that action. And the thing is, is like, exactly that first step. Yeah. You could, you could, since you've never done it before, you didn't know a wrong way to do it, really. So you just went ahead. And

Tracy Lamourie 8:32 I think that's, I think that's how I I think that's my whole career right there. Not just that activism. But really, that's so funny, because like, after all that I thought it at 40 went, Oh, gee, you know, wait a minute, I don't have to do a million sales calls. Now for something I don't care about. How many says 15 years of like, really effective work that I could. And when I finally thought, gee, I could be it's gonna call the public. That's, you know, I could like, wait a minute. But yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing I didn't I never met a publicist. Until recently, I didn't read any publicist books. I didn't go to any public school, or I just learned how public public image so if I was trying to build a public image, like, you know, meaning not like build an image, but like, show that celebrate show you what you do, what would I do I do this I do. So I just made it all up to the point where an LA client of my hood fire like, previous la publicists tire me literally said, you know, you don't do more than like other publicists. And now that now I'm like, I didn't even know cuz I didn't know what the perimeters were. I just knew well, well, you know, so it's exactly what you say, you just got to make sure. Like, it's a good thing. It's a good thing after all.

Brandon Handley 9:34 Yeah, I mean, I think it's great, right? That one of the one of the big things in you know, social media space today, and I think for the past year or so, it's been like this. You got to be your authentic self, right. You know, be your authentic self, this and how to be authentic. And sounds like you just went ahead and you were authentic. Anyways, you know, details be damned, and you're like, well, this is kind of how we're doing it. And we're doing it in a way that it sounds To me, like, it resonated with the person that you already were right? It's not like you were doing something you didn't like to do. Because if I'm reading a lot of your testimonials, it's like they love I mean, you can hear the energy that you bring here, right on the podcast, I love the energy that you bring, you're enthused to do the work and you just kind of enjoy what it is that you get the opportunity to do. What would you say? Like when I think about what a marketer does, when I think about what a coach does, and when I think about like, kind of sales, I always think about that, you're really just trying to bring out the best of what your client has to offer. How would you How would you? You know, what would you say PR is?

Tracy Lamourie 10:45 I hit on this in the podcast, because somebody said, you know, they was talking about how they like, I really like you. And I always thought that publicist is more like, you know, like, Hi, you know, they thought that publicist is just what we think of as PR. But the bad, the politician is nasty, and you need somebody in there to make it look like that. You know, a person instead of a sow's ear, or whatever it is, right. But no, so it's not spin, I could do spin. I mean, I'm good at words, but I don't like and that's not what I do. Like, I like to do it, because I take on people that I like what they're doing. They're ethical people doing good things, whether it's a creative, or whether it's a small business person, or you know, whatever. It's the person that's doing it that I connect with, that's a human that hires me that I trust, and I like, right. And then yeah, so I say it's about PR isn't about spin, at least the way I do it, what I do is what else this just hit me in a podcast, like it was from God. And, and then I've been quoting it ever since elevating, and celebrating, literally elevate and celebrate. So what they're already doing awesome things, but about hiding it or or, or reshaping it, or boxing them into what they should look like. because like you said, Authenticity, and genuine is huge. To me, it's what I do in my business. It's what I preach. It's what I advise, when I see people trying to win, people don't really understand what that means that the lack of self confidence are trying to be phony, but they're trying to be what they think people would expect to see someone in that position would be like, at the other day, I had a potential client he was like, and actually his story is a spiritual one, which I didn't even know to the beginning. Because he approached me for a business, you know, he's like that this thing, business idea, whatever, blah, blah. And he's like, no, yeah, I can help you with that. No problem. As we're talking, he really connected with me and be like, you know what I wanted to ask you, I feel like because I have this other thing I want to do. I'm writing this book, which was about, I don't know, his whole spirit. He mentioned that was spiritual to what he used. And so but he didn't really break down yet what the details were, but that he was like, but you know, I don't want to confuse you. I want to hire you as a process. And I want to have this new public image. But I don't want to confuse people. Because here I am the entrepreneur with this message helping entrepreneurs. And then I had this book, and I was the guy. And I was thinking about it. Like in the terms of the way he phrased it for me. And I said, Hold on a minute, wait a minute, stop being not genuine. And he's like, What do you mean? Because he wasn't? I was thinking about what you're saying. You're like, how should I present myself here? What would be the correct? And then what would be good? When you get that you're saying there's two completely different things, but they're not, they're both you, they're you. And it doesn't mean that you're going to be talking about the spiritual side when you're in a hard business audience or that you're going to be talking about the opposite. But I mean, they're both legitimately you made of you and your experiences. Now, it doesn't mean when you stand on stage, you may be talking about one, you may be talking about the other, you may not at all mentioned the other, or you might it doesn't matter there, it's not separate. They're not two different things. It's one it's you, you talking about different things in different forums. So, but he thought that that was like, going to confuse the public. And why does that confuse because you want to create nothing you want to be you think you have to create this public image? And I don't want to confuse that public image. No, no, that's Tracy right there. And that's Tracy there. And it's true. Your trade. You know, it's the same Tracy whether I'm talking about like you brought up the cannabis, if I talked about my cannabis advocacy from 10 years ago as a medical patient, I hope Yeah, that's what I did. I did that too, you know, and the definitely thing like, I could go on to podcast how the hard business podcast I talked about, and when people say to me, books, they all do. Tell me about how you got started in PR. I couldn't say oh, well, you know, I learned to write a press release and advocacy work. And then I decided to make it a business. And that's true. There's no lie there. But you know, what, if I don't tell their story about Jimmy, it's not because I want people to think you know, I'm awesome. And I started to charity. But if I don't tell that story, you get a whole different picture of who Tracy is. Now I'm just an international award winning publicist. That's not even who I want to be if you don't understand that there's a deep social active component out to me, you know that because I didn't get famous to be famous publicist, you know, I didn't like this.

Brandon Handley 14:27 Right. And so that's also another piece of of, I think, a lot of people's journey, right? Like they see maybe they see Tracy as as international award winning publicist, and they want to do the things that you did to get there, but you did it with a different intent, right, what was internal what the internal drive was to get you to where you are today, was really, you know, if you want to play whoo for a minute is really what gave provision to you to create this business. So that you could do this, this deed, right so that you can run this 20 year campaign, right?

Tracy Lamourie 15:05 No, that was after he was out by the truckload. I guess we started the business while he was still in. But yeah, it was close to the end. But yeah, that's, it's, it's just everything you say you made me think of like other things. I'm thinking about things in a different way, in this podcast that normally, you know, because of the whole tournament, but yeah, it's true.

Brandon Handley 15:21 So I mean, and again, right, like if we do like any it's just you put out like this such a high vibration of love giving kindness and and like you said, was this idea of leaving the world a better place? And you know, kind of when you when you found it, so why wouldn't it work out for you? Right? Like, why wouldn't it work out for you, if that's your if that's what is driving you now, then I bring that up, because there's a lot of people that want to go be publicists just to make money just to get rich and XYZ. And while there's nothing wrong with that, they're not gonna find like the same ease of way that you're doing it like you're talking about this guy, right? You talking about this potential client, he's got, he's got this business image. And he's got this guy who he really is just has a fever to be, right. And he goes, Well, I don't want to I don't want to confuse people. But why should those two be separate? Right? Because he's gonna have, he's already having a challenge with creating this image of who he wants people to see. And he's got this longing to be the person that he is.

Tracy Lamourie 16:16 Yeah, this put it all together. It's the same person, you know, like, it's, but also one thing, too, when you said that thing, the really nice ones that you just said about, you know, doing this kindness, and why shouldn't the good things happen? It's funny, because I'm not like, I'm not a really religious person, you can tell when I want to even say to this, like talking about God, I even get uncomfortable, you know, because it's not really like, but it's, but it's like God saying to me, it snapped out of it. Because like, everything had shown me all the time. Really, it's like, seriously, you're not? How do you not believe this is from another? Like, there's no, you know, it's really hard to maintain that. Especially when my husband said to me, he was definitely a believer. And he said to me, I'm like, What did he say? He says, you know, he's going to probably, oh, all these crazy good things that have thrown me like, How is this even happening? How are we like, how am I even in the position where I'm talking to this person? Or could it be the publicist for this? Or like, how I literally, I was working in a call center 20 years ago, where I'll be like, how did this you know, and my husband is like, because you know, not only the Jimmy Dennis thing, but as we got involved with a dot, they've opened their eyes with the whole death penalty, we won't go into too much. But like, we for a while that we were like, really serious advocates of the death penalty in general, from guilty people, innocent people, just the whole system in general was like, really disturbing to us early 20s. And so through our work that we did, speaking to people, not the way we do is the only person that we were like, really had a campaign for an innocence campaign. But we spoke about the death penalty was but what other issues whenever, and there were people, even guilty people, people who were executed people who were like, because I don't know whether they did wrong, whatever, but you know, when they're alone in that moment between them and God, you know, before they're gonna get killed, or 20 1020 years after whatever they did, and they're alone in the cell, wondering, whatever they did to get whatever people go through in their mind when, I don't know, I've never been in that situation. But I believe that more a lot of people are not necessarily the person that we think they are, when they're going through those years of introspection alone with themselves in their garden, their darkness, you know, and my husband said to me, do you know cuz I know cuz he wrote to us and said it. There was a guy that was destitute in 2000. I have no idea if it was guilty or not named Stacy Lawton. But after he was executed in Texas, he sent me a letter and I still got it. Someone the ended, said, believe in Jesus. He's believed in God, he's glad or something, and a little heart. And whenever I say always remember that when I think of, you know, my husband said, Do you know how many people prayed for us? Because they did. They would always say, I'm praying for you, like death row prisoners, you know, who are getting the lowest of the low, nobody cares. But that's between them and God, we don't know. Right? But people like that are praying hard. And what if there really is a God that listens to the the heartfelt prayers like that? Wouldn't those be the ones that listen to some Thank you know, for? I got nothing on me. But the desperate person is, according to the Bible, which I don't know, I'm not a Christian. But according to the Bible, the whole thing is like, you know, forgive whenever there's nothing that God can't forgive. And you whenever and whenever, and not as it's a play thing, like where people sit, claim that, but imagine if people truly, if the Bible as it exists, as they say it exists, if all that is true, and those people truly believed that, and they truly with their hearts, do what the Bible says, which when they fall on the ground, sorry for their sins, pray to God or whatever they do, right, whatever the Bible says, people do that. I haven't I haven't had that. But what if they did that? And one of their prayer was, you know, Dave and Tracy because thank them for Dave and Tracy for the things that they've been doing for me because nobody else was. There was a lot of people that were helping when nobody else was gonna go to maybe all this good stuff is just like, when people say God bless you, maybe he did.

Unknown Speaker 19:38 I don't know. Yeah,

Brandon Handley 19:39 yeah. Yeah. 100% Whoo. Well, not not weird at all right? And I mean, that's, again, I think nude. That's, that's kind of the journey though, right? Because it's weird, but then you start thinking about it. You're like, well, I could actually see this working here. So I guess I guess Oh, right. Albert Einstein has the line of either everything's a miracle or nothing is a miracle. Right. So which one do you want to choose? That's a good one. I've never heard that one. Yeah, that's good. You talked about you talked about, you know, it's got to be heartfelt, right? Like these heartfelt prayers. And that's, that's, that is that is key, right? Having a true emotion and coming from a place of sincerity. Right? And, and, you know, so that that does certainly play into sending out like those, those, those high vibrations, they're sending over to Tracy, right? They're like, hey, Tracy, you know, nobody else is hearing me or listening to me. And, you know, let's just pretend there is a God, but we are, where I come from I I use source right sources easier for me to to get out of my mouth.

Tracy Lamourie 20:47 Yeah, like, that's actually I might start quoting you on that, because that makes me more comfortable to actually, because God is so full of like, all these preconceptions of what do people think? And what do you believe? What does it mean to you? And yeah, I know, that's why I don't I'm always like, looking uncomfortable. even go there. Like, you know, it's, I'm gonna quote you source anyway.

Brandon Handley 21:09 Call. I'm still there with you on the same bit. Right. But so then, like, you know, it, it comes to and, you know, it's working through you. So sources working through us for their prayers, right, that's how I would see it in this scenario. Right. And, and, you know, so So again, you know, there you go, like, you are blessed, and you are, you know, kind of doing your doing God's work.

Tracy Lamourie 21:35 And why he would pick the crazy red haired girl, I don't know. But he picks on if there is a God, he picks all of us, we just don't always hear the call, right?

Brandon Handley 21:45 More people hear the call than not. And I think that you talked about it several times, on, at least one of the podcasts I listened to was like, you know, why would somebody pick me? It's like, if, if, if not you then who type of thing? Right? So let's talk a little bit about that. Let's say that, you know, I am a client, I call up and we're talking and, and I'm like, and I'm like, Alright, well, I've got this idea. But I don't know that this is big enough to put out there. I don't know, you know, crazy, why should I? Why should I take my business and try and go public with it? What What do you start telling people and talk them through?

Tracy Lamourie 22:19 So if someone says, Yeah, what if there was, there's no reason not to do in business now there's no way they're like, it's like saying, I don't want to, I don't wanna have a customer. You know, it's the same thing, because it literally is. So originally, when I started up, what I was thinking it was doing for the businesses was I was thinking, obviously, but the customer, you know, attracting some of the same things ads do but more powerfully, because the third party credibility and all that because you can't, you can buy an ad, but you can't buy an interview with a credible source, right? So so. So partly, you build up your obviously obvious is like attract customers, the third party credibility when you it's good for your SEO, when you put it on your website, it's all you know, it looks sharp and nice. And it differentiates you from your competitor and all that. So all that is the obvious to me, but maybe not to everybody cuz you're thinking marketing that PR, but then also one client told me after literally six weeks of working together, I said isn't a lot of podcast, because it literally went this way. She said, you've you've changed my business in my life. And I get a lot of accolades, as you mentioned my testimonials, but that was like, you know, in six weeks, you changed my business. And I said, What do you mean, and she said, You made investors take us more seriously, I hadn't thought of that, cuz I'm not a finance girl. They were she was in the pre seed funding stage, going for seed funding. And so there you go, if you're, let's say, you're in a startup, everybody has a beautiful deck saying nice things about themselves with pretty images, anybody can get a graphic designer, but they want to get off the deck. And I go and Google to see who these people are sure, I'm gonna see your pay history and where you worked and all that. But if I then see, like what I did for my client, six articles, two of them talking about how your power woman in the industry to others in the industry talking about this innovative idea that I then you know, you went and got and won an award for innovation, because we're always looking for those kind of things to in your industry. And now you're in that we get caught. So now, two weeks later, you know, you're internationally quoted, right? Because you've recorded here and there you so all this stuff, elevate you, it gets you the noise with so much noise these days. Right, that how do you differentiate, especially with all the socials all the way ever? So you have to be thinking about that if you're just sitting there. You know, if you're a card, if you're like a car dealer guy or doing your own, and you only worry about that, like, it doesn't matter what your job is, if you're only doing your job, there's somebody in your industry, who is doing that job plus talking about it and developing a thought leadership for themselves. Thought Leadership, that phrase, you know, and why does that matter? Again, it's it doesn't just matter if you're building a brand if you have a book to sell, it literally is about you know, these days, we all know people search you on the internet if we're gonna hire you for a job if they're gonna say you want to you know, build up your public credibility in what you do, like show people, how have the confidence to show people what you do, basically, it's a new it's a it's a and people say, Well, why should I be like What would they want to eat? Why would they want to interview me, I'm just, I'm just, and I hear that all the time, people don't realize the people that that you see in your industry, or whether getting awards or be interviewed, they're just the people that you just know, they just the people that had a better publicist, or that knew how to reach out to media, or that told the media what they're doing, because media will not find you. They don't like if they're doing a story on doctors, they don't sit there and look far and wide for the best doctor in the world. And they, they look in their Rolodex to see who's reached out to them, and who do they have as a contact, and maybe they might reach out to somebody. But generally, when they do that it's through PR service and say, do you have a client who, instead of actually calling them, you know, these days, so or if you're reaching out, if you built you don't need the publicist, if you're doing this on your own, if you're developing your thought leadership, you've got some articles you've got. So you really need to, like think beyond just what you do these days, if you you know, in order to, to make it more successful. And that could it's not arrogant, because it's a matter of, it's not like, hey, I want to be in the media, it's a matter of use, it's a tool that you can use to build whatever you're doing, if it's a message. It's maybe not even a business could be a book or could be just a message. I have a lot of people who just want to share something and inspiring story that happened to them or, you know, public speaker, they want to be a speaker, you know,

Brandon Handley 26:13 right? Well, I think I think, from what I'm hearing, you say it sounds a little bit like it comes down to like self belief, right? And believing that you're worth it to put yourself out there you believe in what you have to share. What is I'm not sure this is a stat or something that you would think of offhand. But in terms of social media reach, what does adding a PR agent do to boosts your reach beyond social media?

Tracy Lamourie 26:43 So yeah, we're talking about real media, media. And obviously, using the real media, you put that on social media, and it expands and people get excited about it, and all your network will share it. Like for example, I had one client hired me literally, this doesn't always happen. But the next day had got her an interview for exactly what she needed, what you want to be talking about, in Good Housekeeping magazine, which is one of the, you know, 150 year old American print magazine, the one one of the few magazines on every checkout counter. So it's huge. And so yeah, so she was literally she has no media, she's just starting out her business as a life coach. And on paper, she had nothing differentiate herself from all the other life coaches. She's awesome. But what's different on paper, what's different on a website, so she wanted to share a story, she decided to start sharing her personal story, which in her case, is about living successfully with bipolar. And so then literally the next day there is publicist, she didn't How would she share that makeup, she can make a medium page start, you know, but me I can go right away to my policy and started looking through all the things all the media sources, what media is going to be interviewing, who, what they went, and I found Good Housekeeping reporter looking into the women between 25 and 40, who were willing to share their story about bipolar luck of the draw literally the next day that after she hired me, and I pitched her that almost missed the deadline. But I was like, I research the reporter, because you don't just want to be blind and said, Hey, I think you were really like this story. This is a woman who started to share with me and said all the things that I knew that will connect with our border, because the vibe, right. And she picked my client, my client who'd never been in any media before I did an awesome job because she knows her stuff. And sure enough, she was the next issue of good housekeeping in print. And now literally, she's been with me, she's just a single working person, she doesn't miss a month with me, I give her really cheap deals. And you know, she doesn't miss a month because she's got that that does her business, every single anything she wants to speak on now, anything to do with mental health mindset, whatever. We're just like, cleanser, Alvarez as seen in good housekeeping. I'm not my mental illness, and it's like, put her on the she literally has been on everything she can feel speaking, she's been in the book, that's literally because she paid a publicist, you know, half $1,000, I gave her a good deal that I started reaching out. So we just have access to like, number one opportunities that aren't easy to find, right. And then also, just, if you spend one month with a publicist, I always say even if it's only a month, after the end of the month, and you take your money and go home, you'll have that pitch, you'll have a different understanding that you didn't have before because most entrepreneurs, and all of us we understand ads, we had to sell advertising, but how do we get how do you break that editorial barrier? And it's not just them? Yeah, you first you got to reach out to them, you got to get the credit information. But then also you have to understand what you're giving them, they do not want to add, you can burn a bridge as easy as you can build one, and your media pool is limited. So you don't want to start sending them crap that'll make them not open your next email. You know, so for people listening, who have spiritual businesses or whatever, your business is the same as anybody else like and in fact, there's a lot of media opportunities for people to speak on the spiritual side, whether it's Christian stuff, whether it's woowoo, whether it's about psychic, whether it's about all those things, there's, you know, there's a ton of media, obviously, the publications gives you that there's there's media and podcasts geared to that. But also there's you know, mainstream media opportunities if you're watching, like a publicist does, you know for the with you in mind, I think could speak to that. That's what my client would answer.

Brandon Handley 29:57 Oprah you get I want to get also What is it? So? So? So that's great, it's great. Right? So I mean, I think I think what I'm hearing you say really is that if you've got a message, and you know, this isn't exclusive to spirituality, but again, you know, people listening to this podcast are going to be in the spiritual space. And if you, you got, if you want to get beyond, if you want to kind of have some kind of explosive growth and get beyond like, you know, keeping up with your Insta posts, and keeping up with your tweets and all this other stuff and have something that kind of shows you that you believe in yourself a little bit more, right. And I think that that's really what it indicates is, you know, a small investment in yourself that shows you that you believe in in yourself, and what you're doing to start doing what you say you love to do.

Tracy Lamourie 30:53 Yeah, exactly. I mean, you are an expert. And like I said, something, you know, if your, whatever your business is, or your book, or whatever you're an expert in, or you wouldn't be doing it, you know, so that, you know, you said the self belief. And if you're having trouble thinking like jumping to the media component, just think it's what I say to people, you know, why are you not on TV, you know, you're awesome at whatever you're doing wired on TV, the why you're not being interviewed while you're doing a media weekend. And they're like, why would they interview me? And then you know, and say, well, you're an expert. They're like, Well, yeah, but okay, start with a Yeah, but you wouldn't be if you're in business, or you wrote a book, whatever. But if you're in business, you wouldn't be taking people's money to do something if you didn't think you were an expert. Right? Right. Exactly. And then of course, there are, no, of course not. Exactly. So take that same confidence that you build a business on YouTube, even starting your business, the confidence that you had to say, you know what, I can do that people pay me for that, because I do that better than other people. I do that, you know, and realize I have knowledge, and it doesn't matter if you I always say if you're I don't say this because he's a lower Java, people think these are normal jobs that don't. But you know, whether you work in a hotel, whether you the lawn guy, whether you have knowledge we don't have there are things that you do that we don't know, there's media for you to talk about that specifically. Plus you have knowledge about stuff you don't even realize, you know, about, you know, around that, that you don't that that, you know, there are like media opportunities for this the most basic things you like, open up an SEO guy, you can't get me interviewed, an SEO guy hired me. And I almost thought that for a minute. But then I thought, No, I looked into the space before I took his money. I was like, No, no, no, I can. And do you know that I got that client, more media than any other client, the SEO guy. Because there's, there are lots of things where you can be quoted just a matter of you got to have a publicist, or someone showing them you.

Brandon Handley 32:33 So well, this has been awesome. I think it's very eye opening for anybody who, again, in the spirituality space, uncertain. And I think that this plays right into like, my little. I like to think of this as kind of like, spirituality speed dating, that we're doing here, right, like so, you know, got a bunch of spiritual listeners out there. And, you know, if they wanted to date you, Tracy, in the spirituality, space and spirituality realm, there's a question that I would ask you, what is it that prevents people from living to their full potential?

Tracy Lamourie 33:10 I would say comes that believing in themselves, it really comes down to that. It really does. Everything does because I always say life's a pitch, right? That's a P, not a, b. But you know, before that, you can't you can't pitch Yes, it is true to think about it, whether it's getting a job or apply for an apartment, or whatever it is, you've got to convince somebody, you know, strangers that you know, you're okay, right. So or the story or, or a job application. So yeah, so, you know, that's what it's all about, and your life is a pitch and you've got to believe in your own pitch. You've got to believe in yourself. And, you know, honestly, people, people say, oh, believe in yourself. I think people are going yeah, but what does that even mean? How, but honestly, just that people don't even know who they are from them. So they don't have to, they're too nervous to walk it when they walk into a room like that's when the cooler I am I people don't actually know who they are. You are, you know, are they think they have to be someone else because they're thinking they have to present as that. Like I said, to give a call here. I don't want to confuse people. But really just have the confidence and feel like realize that when you go into that room, and you feel nervous to step into that room and use a bit scared, realize that literally 99% of the other people like I like that, too. I'm super out there and exuberant, whatever. But I had moments after I had my baby when I was 18 years ago, and I've been stuck home all the time for a while. And I didn't even realize I went out and all of a sudden those two I don't think anyone else noticed. But I've talked and I have something in my mind. I'm like, I felt like I was stumbling over my words. I don't think I was but I felt all of a sudden had this discomfort around people, which which is not me. Certainly not now, but for a while. And then I when I got out of that as late after that I was doing TV for like, social justice stuff. Because that it's not me. It's about that. And then I realized so I became known for that. So when I walk in the room, people are looking at me, like, oh, there's a celebrity in that world, you know, ready to talk. So I realized, Oh, I can't be that person who's nervous in the room. And then I realized they're all nervous in the room. They're waiting for somebody to take control. Just be like, hey, and even if that's just like, Hey guys, how you doing? If you do that, like just try it one day, if you feel nervous in the room and everybody else's no one's making, you'll be the one to be like, Hey everybody, how's it going, and just smile and feel confident. And you'll literally feel in the room. The relief because somebody everybody's waiting for somebody to do that. Everyone feels that way. So if you don't feel confident, realize most people don't either. And so they're not judging you. They're judging themselves. So stop judging yourself and just be and then you know, your your level of confidence will hopefully, the difference between confidence and arrogance, don't be arrogant, your level of confidence will raise other people's confidence.

Brandon Handley 35:38 Now that rice has been able to walk into the room and try and change the, the energy of the room, right, just by being comfortable enough to step into your own skin. So you also know I think you have a you have a book coming out that's going to speak to a lot of what we talked about on the podcast, when can we when When is that going to be out? And what's it gonna be called?

Tracy Lamourie 36:01 That is going to be called get wrapped to build your brand with effective public and media relations. Nice,

Brandon Handley 36:06 nice and was it throughout

Tracy Lamourie 36:08 early summer was saying that it was it was supposed to be out already, my publisher will say, but I had actually pulled it back to add a few things. I learned a bunch of stuff over COVID just the way people who had previously built their brand successfully, and then they bled all over their page and ruined other hard work. I thought it'd be good to add a couple of you know, cautionary tales.

Brandon Handley 36:25 Sure, that's fair. That's fair. And where should I send people to go find you and have some more Tracy memori?

Tracy Lamourie 36:32 Yeah, and I do work internationally. If anybody does have any message anyone the English speaking world memori media.com. Or they can find me on Instagram. Tracy lemare pr media on LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me or Facebook and Tracy lemare. Awesome. Thanks so much for being on today. Thank you, Brandon. It's been a ton of fun. Give me a lot to think about.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Brandon Handley 0:00 What is going on? It is another Fourth of July, another BJJ, report, nother day where we will get the opportunity to celebrate our freedom. And I'm not sure that we do that as often as we could, as often as we should, but don't be a shithead. As often as we could we take for granted. take for granted whoever we take for granted, what freedom means, and exactly what we are free from. And exactly what we can do with that freedom.

Unknown Speaker 0:58 We

Brandon Handley 1:00 generally consider freedom of movement, our largest freedom, we consider freedom of

Unknown Speaker 1:13 speech,

Brandon Handley 1:16 to say all this stupid shit we want to say. And the thing that I don't know, that we consider as our greatest freedom is our freedom of thought, or three, freedom to express ourselves or freedom to participate in something larger than ourselves, our freedom to contribute to the the good. And I'm not sure that we recognize it, in a sense, and

Unknown Speaker 2:02 often,

Brandon Handley 2:04 it's easy to see. And just like every holiday. We think that it's all commercialize, and there is a large portion of it. That has been commercialized. But I think that what we fail to recall is how we got here, how did we get this freedom that we have now? How do we get this freedom that we have now we got this freedom by way of our forefathers like it or not stupid shit that they did or not? Because they had a vision, because they had a passion that was ignited, they had a passion that was shared. They had a belief not only in what they could bring about, but what they could share what that what that looked like, hundreds of years out. What was it going to look like? And if they had not shared it at all, that they didn't have this shared vision if they didn't have this shared sense of purpose

Unknown Speaker 3:37 of being

Brandon Handley 3:40 have the desire to contribute to the greater good of the whole. Then what would we have? Where would we be? Man instead of looking at the things that you don't enjoy about the holiday, I saw somebody complaining about the Fourth of July today, talking about the celebration to the explosives and some other stuff and I get it. I get it. There's some PTSD that can happen. There's some other things that can happen and we all want to be seen. We all want to be heard. We all want our sensitivities to be recognized and seen. We want to be acknowledged. We do want to be acknowledged for the things that we've done, the way that we've contributed to everything. But I also believe that takes away from the celebration, do you that freedom that you've got to make that request comes by way Have people that were willing to sacrifice their lives give up their way of being hundreds of years ago, hundreds of years ago so that you could have this freedom of thought. The ability to express that freedom with thought by freedom of speech. You also have the ability again, to contribute to something larger than yourself just like these people did. When you find an injustice, when you find a cause that you can advocate for you know that through spiritual audio and then spiritual dope, I believe we can advocate for some awesome mental health. And I love I love the I love the change the we're a part

Unknown Speaker 5:57 of it right

Brandon Handley 5:58 now we're in the midst of such a an amazing piece of revolutionary times ourselves. And it's, it's interesting to to be a part of that. For anybody that came through the industrial age, that was a revolution, not sure what they'll name this revolution. But we're seeing we're seeing an explosion of, of self of repressed self expression, for fear of who you been waiting to be. Or at least trying to be and wanting to be. We get to see that everywhere with the, with the transgender with no pride. It's just amazing to me. That was like 3040 years ago, you had to come out of the closet, you had to hide who you were, at least even in sense of your sexual preference. Even just a sexual exploration. Yet the high that there was fear there. Now, we just finished up Pride Month, got a whole month, dedicated to it. How's that not a revolution. It's a revolution of itself, even in the sense of the word, revolve circle, come around. It's absolutely a revolution. revolution

Unknown Speaker 7:45 of

Brandon Handley 7:48 people not going back to work, even though there are jobs for them to have and do. Because they value their minds. And their sense of well being in a holistic sense of the word. More than $12 an hour. They, it's a revolution. It's nothing short of being able to participate in that is amazing. And again, that's what we're celebrating today. The American Revolution,

Unknown Speaker 8:32 where

Brandon Handley 8:35 we were first afforded this where people stood up for this where people helped to make this happen. iterations, increments. revolutions are not something that is easily visible at the time in the midst of it. And usually, if you're if you're like, right now, if you're in the midst of a revolution, you're probably at the top of the wheel. What does that mean? means that when a wheel is in momentum, and there's an imbalance on it, or a weight on it in a certain position, as it has come to the top as it is crested. It's going to continue the other way, you know, for right now the revolution that waits on the top of the wheel and it's just spinning around right now. Or as other people it's called the flywheel. And since I don't know what the flywheel is, suffice to say that you are in the part of revolution, and today Fourth of July, is a celebration of that celebration of the revolution that came before celebration of the freedom of thought that's been afforded because of it, the revolution that you're in a part of, in the midst of now, all that came before it and all that are ahead of it. A revolution isn't a singular instance. You're in a car and I'm in a car right now, rpm, revolutions per minute. That's a circular motion, how many times does it go round until it gets you to where you want it to get you to? So 400 years ago, give or take? You know, we had we had a revolution that gave us gave us this, this possibility gave us this moment. And I think the inspiration, the celebration shouldn't be an inspiration to you. The shows that should a group of people come together to contribute to a greater whole, for a better future of all of mankind, womankind, humankind, for all for the contribution to the greater good. Then exactly where it is. If there's not something else to celebrate, I don't know what it is. They gave themselves they gave their passions, they gave their creative abilities. They gave everything that they had. They left it all on the line. And my buddy Dave, love it, when he talks about he wants nothing left. Nothing left on the nothing left on the tires, nothing left. When it's all said and done. Complete disintegration into the end, I want to be all juiced up, nothing left. Giving everything that I am, who I am to this life, the way that I believe our forefathers did.

Unknown Speaker 12:10 The way that

Brandon Handley 12:12 many, many others came before us. And I think the revolution is synonymous and a part of evolution. And as we again, just take a look at the celebration on the Fourth of July, what is your evolution look like? What is your revolution look like? What is it look like for you to be able to express your thoughts, your freedom to think if Free to Choose your freedom of choice, to accept or disagree with that line of thinking with with the way that anybody thinks has been afforded by those that came before you. And the establishment of this nation. That's was my interpretation and the original intent. And I think that it's worth pondering. So that is it for me today. As we take off and we just celebrate even if it's just one day out of the year when we can celebrate this freedom of thoughts, freedom of choice, freedom from thought, in every day of the year, but at the very least take today to think about it to consider it wonder what it might be like if you it if if somebody was trying to take that away from you, somebody was always telling you how you needed to think if you were decapitated, because of the way that you think and your your ideas, where would you be? What kind of life would that be?

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Erin McCullough is a thought leader, an in-demand speaker and an international teacher that helps people create IMPENETRABLE JOY so that they can be calm, have peace of mind and meaning in their life, NOW! Erin had an Anxiety Disorder that had her holed up in her home for nearly a year. Through that experience she learned how and why that happened and developed strategies to overcoming and preventing it, which is what she now teaches. Erin vowed that when she found solutions to overcoming and preventing anxiety, she would do whatever she could to make sure that no one had that experience, so that has been her mission. Erin spent a decade studying the Mind/Body connection, Visualization and ways to still the mind. Over the decade she has created simple strategies to Overcoming and Preventing Anxiety, Stress, Worry and Overwhelm so that all her clients live a life intentionally in Joy. She has been an entrepreneur for 21 years and consulting businesses and business leaders for 16 years. If you question who you are and what you are meant to be doing in this life, let Erin help you discover your own path to joy.

Connect with Erin at https://www.erin-mac.com/

The transcript below is machine-generated and unedited.

Brandon Handley 0:41 Hey there spiritual dope. I'm on here today with Erin McCullough. She is a thought leader in the main speaker and an international teacher that helps people create impenetrable joy so that they can be calm, have peace of mind and meaning in their life. Now, Erin had an anxiety disorder that had her holed up in her home for nearly a year, through that experience to learn how and why that happened and develop strategies to overcoming and preventing it, which is what she's now teaches. and vowed that she, when she found solutions to overcoming and preventing anxiety, she would do whatever she could to make sure that no one had that experience. So that has been her mission. There's been a decade, studying the mind body connection, visualization and ways to still the mind. Over the decades, she's created simple strategies to overcoming and preventing anxiety, stress, worry and overwhelm so that all her clients live a life intentionally enjoy. She has been an entrepreneur for 21 years and consulting businesses and business leaders for 16 years. If you question who you are, and what you're meant to be doing in this life, let Erin help you discover your own path to joy. Erin, thanks for your work in through the technical difficulties. As a as I told you, I'm working on this newer platform. But thanks for thanks for joining today. How you doing?

Erin Mac 2:05 Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. I'm wonderful. How

Brandon Handley 2:08 are you never been better. My whole life has led up to this point. So you know, here we are. Here we are. So I like to start these off with the idea that we are deal sources. We're talking about like a little bit before we got started here that we are all our source and that the universe speaks through us. And that right now in this moment, the universe is speaking through you to one of the listeners today. What do you have to tell that listener?

Erin Mac 2:36 Well, first and foremost, I believe it is our birthright to be predominantly in joy all day, every day. And if that's not the experience you're having, then keep listening. We're going to talk about all the things strategies, and you know why we're here what we're meant to be doing. You know, all the things,

Brandon Handley 2:59 all the things all the things that I love, I love that you kind of chose joy had to go out and I had to go out and grab my, my joy mug. Oh, no. It's actually like pretty much one of my favorite mugs right as the idea of what you kind of see out first thing I pick up and I carry around, I see I get to see the word joy everywhere I go when I'm drinking out of the mug. So definitely enjoy it. definitely enjoy the word joy and glad that we have the opportunity to talk about it. And I'm also going to be very honest with you. Before I went in, I checked you out a little bit more I was like what kind of fit is this? Right? What kind of fit is this? Because, you know, being a you know, more of a thought leader and all this I suppose like what's the spirituality fit me and you know, so in your mind, though, like the work that you do is spiritual, you know, the the personal development is spirituality work. Is that set? Right? Is that fair? Yeah. Well, let's talk about let's talk about the journey, right, let's talk about breaking through anxiety. Let's talk about, you know, how you found yourself in an anxious position and kind of some of the things that you did to work your way through it.

Erin Mac 4:06 Awesome. So you know, my story has kind of like three moments, defining moments, if you will. The first started with the anxiety disorder that you spoke about. It actually came about in talk therapy. I was going to a couple's group counseling with my husband at the time. And in that first session, I had a panic attack and I never had one before so I had no idea what it was. And the counselor picked up on it right away she explained all you know what it was and first she told me what it was she didn't really exactly explain what it was. I figured that out later, but she told me that's what was happening and and from there, you know, she said something's obviously coming up for you. Would you like to do some individual work and In that individual work, you know, I was telling my trauma story over and over and over again. And what my body decided to do was put up the defense mechanism of anxiety. And so it got so bad that as you said, I hold myself up in my home. You know, it didn't, it wasn't an overnight thing and happened gradually, panic attacks, more panic attacks, then, you know, I had one was running, and I was training for a race at the time. And so I felt like I couldn't run anymore, at least temporarily. And so I stopped running. And then I stopped teaching, I was a teacher at the time. And so it happens that way, you know, slowly, it's not just one, you know, wake up, and, and no candu. After about nine months of that, she referred me to a homeopathic psychiatrist, who gave me a remedy after a three hour interview, that in 20 minutes basically cured me from the experience of anxiety. That's the physical chemical piece, right? And I thought, wow, I have a new lease on life, you know, I can go and do all these things. But because of that experience, I was afraid, right. So I decided to move to Hawaii, and move to a small town and have a simpler life, right? Thinking that, you know, then I would never get triggered. And I would just live my life happily ever after in paradise. And unfortunately, while the chemistry piece was handled the mental emotional spiritual piece, not so much. And so I was still there. So in that simpler life, of course, I created anxiety, stress, and all that. So I moved to Hawaii. Immediately, in the first 24 hours, I started a business and I had a client. Within 18 months, I had 20 employees, multiple six figure contracts. And, you know, I was on my way to stress and anxiety. And the second thing that happened that really rocked me to my core was I 10 years into my business of just being frantic and crazy, stressed all the time. A client called in the morning, she was upset, and I would just get so frantic about clients complaining, they got in my car, raced over to a friend's house, backed into a driveway to drop my daughter off, and I sideswiped her husband's car or her his truck with my car. And come to find out later, when I came to pick up my daughter, that her husband was under the truck working on it while I hit it, and he thought it was gonna land on him. And that just rocked me to my core, I thought, This is ridiculous. Like, this is no life, you know, running around like a crazy person all the time. And so then I dove, you know, into self development, got involved with a seminar company did all their seminar staff for them, and started to see that there was a different way to be in this world, and starting to make some changes, that we're having an impact on my life and other people around me. And then about five years later, I

found myself in the middle of a divorce. And for whatever reason, it just leveled me, I was in a dark place. And I thought, you know, I'd spent 10s of 1000s of dollars on seminars, reading all the books, you know, trying to do this other life, but I didn't really have any legit strategies to doing life differently. So then a series of things happened. I picked up the book, maybe you've heard of it, the Course in Miracles, and was about a month and two reading. It's a daily passage for about a year 365 passages. And nothing I was kinda like, this is interesting, but not really rocking my world. Then all of a sudden, month two, this crazy thing happened where the word started, like popping off the page. It was like the path is joy. The answer is joy, joy, joy, joy. And I was like, finally after a couple weeks of that, I was like literally threw my hands up in the air. I was like, I got the answer. How do I get there? And a series of things happened. I got an email from a gentleman I met. He was teaching a seminar in a wahoo and I thought I'll fly over for that. I have no idea what it is doesn't matter just need something positive. And I went and it was a day long seminar on a visualization process that he teaches. And I was so excited by it. I came home and I started using it immediately called my broker who had had my business for sale for like nine months with no bites. And I was like look, I just want to let you know my business is going to sell by the end of the month and there's going to be a bidding war. And it was like, okay, and long behold a week later That's exactly what happened. And then I went back and trained this gentleman that I had gone to that seminar, he was having a seminar, to train people to teach his main seminar. And I went and trained for a week I came home, put on my first seminar, and I stood in front of this group of people, and I ditched my notes, five minutes in, because I had this crazy experience where like, everything that I had ever learned, all of my life experience, everything I had ever read, just came together, like at one moment, I went, Whoa, like, this is what I'm supposed to do. Like, I'm supposed to teach people how to find their joy, cultivated daily, and live the life that they're meant to be living now, without waiting for all the things or the, you know, whatever they think they need to have in order to have that, like, that's available now. And I happen to also during that few week period, meet the love of my life in these very random circumstances, which I don't believe in random anymore. And, and so it just all lined up. And that's what I've been doing for the last almost four years.

Brandon Handley 11:11 That's awesome. I mean, and it's interesting, right, that you came, you kind of came out of a, from what I gathered was more of a business oriented kind of thing versus this pursuit of joy, right, are you that you're doing now? And I think that I heard you say, on another podcast that, you know, maybe some of this is Woo, but if it is, woo, it's working out for you. And and you're okay with it, right?

Erin Mac 11:39 I mean, that's the thing, you know, people always say, Oh, that's kind of woowoo. For me, I'm like, I'm looking at woowoo people, they look pretty happy as all I can say. Something too, and

Brandon Handley 11:50 it's pretty amazing. The idea to have, you know, just try some of these things out for the first time. Very go into a very skeptical, right, this vision process that you're doing that you're thinking about, while it seems pretty cool. But then you you go and you try it. And then things start working out. Right. I mean, talk to me a little bit about that. So how did that have that come? And like kind of manifest itself? What was some of your initial reactions when you saw, were even calling it the universe? And what were you calling it? Well, like, what was your know, kind of how, how was that for you?

Erin Mac 12:30 You know, it's kind of crazy, because you know, how it's like life. I mean, again, it's like life unfolds slowly. And you don't recognize exactly what's going on. So you look back and go, Whoa, like, look at all these things that happened. That's crazy. It took me a while to even recognize how much I knew that I was feeling better that I knew. And honestly, you know, I just, I thought I knew what joy was, I thought I knew what happiness was. The thing was, is I was on this, like, roller coaster ride of things, right? It was just like I was so 100% bought into the idea that if I had all the things, you know, a stack of cash, and the house and the car and the successful business, and all the things that we're told is gonna make us be happy. I had all those things, and I was so miserable, right? But I didn't even know that it was possible to experience joy. Do you know what I mean? Like I really just didn't even know what was available.

Brandon Handley 13:39 So I think it's really interesting that you bring it up, right? I think there's this, you know, Tale of Two Cities type of thing, where you went, and you got all these things, and you did all the things because this is what we're taught. But that's been my experience is like, hey, go through all these things. Because this is what you're taught. Right? And you're not doing it maybe with the same intent that some of these other people are doing it right, you're doing it to a mass and acquire and to be happy and to have status versus what you're doing now, which is to implement, purpose, intent, and service, right, and the outcome that you're headed towards now. Right? If you haven't, I'm sure you've already achieved. I mean, listen, if you landed in Hawaii has some clients on the first day and you know, whatever, you know, a mask pretty quick like that, you know, whatever it is that you're doing right now, I'm assuming is successful, in one way or another, right? And but now it's aligned to who you are with your purpose and there's fulfillment and joy in that and the rest of it just kind of comes naturally, right? It comes as a byproduct of that intent and that purpose versus if you could compare To the way that you are running life before, right? You were miserable. You were like, anxious and you know, knocking people's trucks over on him. Right? And now I'd like you're doing maybe the same work, I don't know. But what's the effort feel like, compared to what you're the effort felt like before.

Erin Mac 15:21 I mean, you're, you hit it right on the head, like I am 100% in service of people and myself. And while that may sound selfish, it's, it's, it's kind of where you got to be when you're in service to people in this way, you know, and it's a whole different experience, you know, before it just felt like I was grinding, grinding, grinding all the time, you know, like, it took all these things in order to make success, like I really, you know, there are these ideas that we have from a young age, you know, success looks like this formula. It's right. It's like, it's like, hard work plus luck, right, you know, like this, you know, formula of success. And I was 100% bought into that, too. And now, it's not like that, it's like, it doesn't seem like work. It's not a four letter word anymore. For me, it's 100%. Like, like, when I give to clients, I give to myself, like, it's such a win win. Whereas I definitely didn't function that way in my life before 100%. And now it's like, you know, while I still have to negotiate, you know, time, you know, balance the things out in my life, this never feels like something I've have to do. Like, I'm excited to do it all the time. I feel called to share what I know, because it's had such a profound impact on my life.

Brandon Handley 16:51 I think it's interesting to how, you know, on your first seminar, you kind of tossed off to the side and everything you ever knew, kind of fell into this framework. Right, and you were able to just let it freely flow. Right? I mean, what, what looking back, what would you say happened there?

Erin Mac 17:15 Oh, I, I was, you know, I think we're guided all the time. I think we have support all the time, from all the things, you know, universe, energy in general, you know, I mean, scientifically speaking, energy cannot be destroyed. So every person who's lived, their energy is here to you know, and, you know, that's why people talk to loved ones that have passed, and, you know, like, they still the energy is still hear it's exist, so why not tap into those things? I think, you know, it happens to me all the time. And I'm not gonna lie, it was freaky. You know, because it's, you know, for somebody who's like a recovered control freak, you know, a bunch of people and all of a sudden, just free flowing. And not to say it was just random all over the place is still stuck to, you know, we had a workbook and things but, you know, to go off the notes, I still do that. And I just, and I, and I recognize, I mean, even sometimes when I'm on podcasts, like, I'll just, I'll wake up in the middle of it and go, Oh, like I, you know, I wouldn't say it's me, I want to say channeling, but it's like, it's taking energy that exists. Like what I'm telling what I tell people and how I'm in service to people and the information that I share with people. Like it's not new to me, like I didn't make this stuff. Right. Right. Right. This is a real learning. Right, right. And when I'm teaching, I see it in the students, it's like, they can hear me on a deep level, even if they're not consciously aware of what I'm saying. They're feeling on a deep level. And that's coming from not me, you know, I mean, I hear it and I can disseminate that information, distill it down. But it's, it's exists, we're all connected to it one way or another.

Brandon Handley 19:06 No, 100%, right. Truth resonates. And that's the kind of that that's the experience and you're talking to somebody else. And you're in a room with with these people and and you're having a truth session on the value column, right? It's your truth, this is kind of coming through you. And you're like, I don't even know, I didn't even know I could do that. Right? But then, but then the rest of the room is resonating with you. And to me, that's kind of what it sounds like as happening. And you know, call it channeling. It's funny too, because, like we we still have our limitations on what we'll call it, right? Like, I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know, I call it channeling I don't know, you know, whatever. But you know, what you're doing is you're at least letting yourself open to, to it, whatever, whatever it is, to come through and to to and through you. Right as a kind of a receiver translator as it were.

Erin Mac 19:59 That's it. receiver for sure, yeah, yeah. And yeah, and I think we're all we all have that ability.

Brandon Handley 20:07 I mean, it's an eight, right. And so, I mean, I don't know how old your kids are, you know, I've got my, my nine year old. And it's so and and my older child to 11. But you know, it's so obvious just how like innately in tuned. The children are, right as as as it is and, and then you can kind of watch it literally be kind of like almost a brainwash, but brainwashed out of them, right, like, you know, just kind of have those senses gold and like, you know, go through like this other thing, and you just kind of watch it, you're like, wow, that's crazy. Because we go through this relearning experience later in life. Are you an Alan Watts fan? I don't know who that is. Oh, my gosh, come on now. All right. Alan Watts. Yeah, Alan Watts. You know, he's a kind of philosopher made. Popular lies, Zen Buddhism. And in the West, West, it's like in the 60s 70s, right? English guy, you really enjoy him. One of the things that he talks about those, it's like, it's like, we're like salted beef, right? We get all salted and you got it. You got to desalinate that beef. And then you're like, you're back to your natural state at a certain point. And that's, again, sounds to me. I like the way you're the way you're going. Right? You're feeling into it. The what was the cure? I mean, because you had the homeopathic guy, right comes and gives you the cure. What was it? Do you recall? Was it like, a miracle pill? You know, help me out here.

Erin Mac 21:51 Now Now what? homeopathy is so interesting. It's so distilled down the amount of whatever the substances may come in. Have you ever taken it before? That's like little tinctures, tablet. They're little pills. Yeah, no, tiny, tiny little granules. And, and they taste like sugar. And they have just, I mean, it's almost like they have essence of the thing. And it really is for the purpose of sort of writing your own self, right? So you introduce it to the body, and the body goes, Oh, that's right. We use a function fairly normally, in this stage. Here's the thing that I need. And interestingly enough, when she gave me the remedy, she told me what it was called. And she said, I don't want you to research it. And this is pre internet. It's not pre internet, but it was definitely internet was not a thing. Really. This was like 99, there was no Google. Yeah, it was not, there was no verb called Google it. And so, you know, she was just like, I don't want you to research this. And, you know, just see what happens or whatever. And, you know, and I, I mean, I almost don't want to say what it is because I don't want people with anxiety to think that that's the cure all it's not the cure all, it was just the thing that made me feel better enough to get on the path to recognizing that the work is internal, emotional, spiritual, and then the body follows.

Brandon Handley 23:29 It's so interesting, though, right? Because we, we've, we believe the other way around, right? Because we see the things that everybody's doing, but we can't see the inner work, we can't see how they're thinking, functioning, or directing themselves internally to get to that point. So we're like, Alright, well, I'm just gonna go do all those same things. Right? And it doesn't it doesn't work out, right? Because we're not we're not aligning all three of those pieces of ourselves together. We're just like, we're hammering on one at a time. Right?

Erin Mac 24:02 Yeah, I mean, I think you know, you see people they have you know, I work with a lot of people who have cancer and other diseases because that's mental emotional, spiritual two, I believe were three equal parts you know, mind body spirit. And if any of those are out of alignment or out of balance, it's going to show up in the other ones right and in a negative way or and that not wanted way. And often we can, you know, we can skip past mental and spiritual right we can we have all kinds of ways to not feel and acknowledge and, you know, the obvious ones are drugs and alcohol, the less obvious ones are things like being super busy, not ever having any stillness in our life, you know, being helicopter parents, you know, the SWAMI we spend all day every day Trying not to feel any. And, you know, and so you can imagine, and we've done it from a young age, like, it's not really our fault. It's, you know, we've grown up to this idea that we're not supposed to have emotions, we're not supposed to feel those things, only very controlled and in very specific ways, depending on the environment, you know, like, can't cry in a business meeting, you know, you know, are you crying out to lose it? No crying in baseball.

Brandon Handley 25:32 I know, my first, my first go around, like in the podcast room and coaching space was fatherhood. And a big point of what you're saying there's is especially as Western civilization, men, emotions, come on now. You know, yeah. That's it. I mean, and that's a brilliant question too. Because we don't know, we don't know, one of the one of the tools that I use, often is the blue check wheel, right? Just just has the emotions kind of listed out, I hand it to my clients, I'm like, you know, go through it. You know, take a look at this every day, if you don't know what this one means. Or if you if you think that you do, go double check the definition of that and just see kind of how you're applying it in your life and how you can use it to, you know, acknowledge your situation, because we don't we, I suppose I was like, 40, or something I didn't know, I didn't know. I was, I guess, like, you know what, because I had a, I had a coaching friend, he goes, because Brandon, I'm not hearing anything emotional, or there's nothing emotional. I was like, Oh, let me go check that out. I was like, Well, I

Erin Mac 26:32 mean, unfortunately, our society, especially for a man, like you really only allowed to anger is the only like, standout emotion and now, that's just as tragic. But that's changing slowly, as

Brandon Handley 26:45 well. You know, I like to call kind of where we are right now in whatever culture like a hippie 2.0 situation. Right? Right. We're kind of like a hippie 2.0 situation where like, okay, like, maybe if we don't deal with all the drugs, it'll work out better this time, right, like, cut it out on like, the illegal substances. And, you know, we can still get to this place, mentally and spiritually, right. And, and, and since we're seeing that, there's, there's the actual benefits are being seen and heard, and, and I think that the pandemic had such a huge influence, because nobody was spared. Right? If anything good came out of level, it's like, it's like, level set everything. So, so for the, you know, for the CEO, or business leader that could normally like hop on a plane and do everything that like, his employees couldn't, he was stuck at home to with the kids having to deal with the zoom meetings. He wasn't getting a you know, he wasn't getting a free ride out of it. Right. And so his mental, her mental health was impacted as well. And they're like, Oh, shit, everybody's gone through this, we'd better do something. Right. So we see, right? I mean, so I think there's some benefit out of this whole COVID situation to huge, right, right, the right mental health space of people, spaces, places and things. So if I am coming to you, and I am like, the client type I am is who you were before you got to this choice spot, right? Um, you know, I've got success, not like, you know, I'm not Whoo, kind of guy, my calendars, you know, tight and all this stuff. What are you what are some of the first things that we're gonna do together?

Erin Mac 28:39 First, we're going to acknowledge and begin to make some separation between the story that's been running your life, you know, the story of all the rainbows and sunshine, a story of all the, you know, the yucky, the fit, the unfair, the unjust, the abuse, trauma, all those things, not for the purpose of wallowing in and you know, it just to acknowledge where we started, and maybe what's affecting some of the ways that we see this world, how we perceive people and circumstances, and then take that story and recognize it for what it is the gift that it has been, and will continue to be in terms of showing us where healing and growth can take place. And you know less about all the things all the details in terms of, you know, who and what happened and all of those things. It's really more about what did you decide about you because of that story. Those are the beliefs and then when we recognize some of those beliefs, then we can understand that, you know, that's been playing out in the background, that's the wallpaper so to speak of our lives, you know, where we make decisions from and a lot of the decisions are fantastic. We need not mess with those, but the ones that aren't serving the future that we want to create. Those are the ones we want to take a closer look at. And so then, from there, I have people do a day, I have them write out a narrative of the day in the life of everything they ever wanted to create in our life, you know, all outcome based, you know, all you know, all the fields, you know, touch, taste, see, smell the whole deal. So exciting, you know, ever, like literally for a moment, wake up until moment go to sleep one day with everything in it, all the people, all the circumstances, all the outcomes. And then they use that in a visualization. And they start their day, because that's where I found my joy was in that visualization. Understanding a day in the life now, is it about manifesting? Not exactly. It's really about elevating the emotional experience, because you have that at your disposal at all times. And so we learn that we can our body doesn't forget things. So when I'm in my visualization in the morning, like, My arms are in the air, I'm like, super excited, like, yes, that just happened. And then yes, that happened to and I mean, tears of joy streaming down my face. I mean, it's all the things, I'm 100%. And on every level, I've raised my emotional experience. And then, like I said, the body doesn't forget. So when you have that experience, you can recall it at any time. So when you're going throughout your day, things start to go south, you can put yourself Take a moment, close your eyes, put yourself back into that moment, refocus and move on, versus what most people do is go out, this thing's not working out. And then there's all these other things that aren't working out, there's that thing, and then there's another thing I didn't like, and then this other person, and then you know, and so just got to read the brain and just, it loves to do the same stuff over and over again, and act like it's new.

Brandon Handley 32:08 Yeah, it's not. I mean, I think the idea of the brain, right, it's, uh, likes to be an efficient piece of machinery, right? consumes so much energy, the more efficient it can be. And so let's just keep doing this thing, because it's just, you know, hasn't killed us in the past? Right? If we just keep doing this, we will die. And we may not be enjoying our lives. But you know, it, you know, hasn't killed us before. So I enjoy I enjoy the visualization. And and I think that there's a big piece of what you're saying there that a lot of people when you're doing these exercises, don't hammer home, I think, quite enough. And that's something I think you're touching on is the idea of the feels. Right. So my guess is that this is kind of a writing in the present tense exercise. Right?

Erin Mac 33:00 Yeah, preferably, you know, again, outcome base, so you want to say in gratitude, right, because of high vibration, it's, you know, I'm so grateful that, you know, all these things are happening in my life, you know, as though they've happened already, as they exist in the now. Right. And they will, in your visualization, they exist as already taken place, and done deal.

Brandon Handley 33:25 Right. And I think that, that the idea is that I'm just, I'm just feeling your words now. Because I heard you saying earlier today, the idea is that, you know, what wants to give us the idea that right, so if I can feel it right now, then what's that doing for me?

Erin Mac 33:42 Yeah, that's creating, so I can't tell you how to get all the things. I mean, I think, you know, for me, they've come by being in that elevated state. And so, you know, I, what I help with is changing the experience of life, you know, and I think that's a heck of a lot more important than amassing things, you know, if, if I could show you how to change your experience in your life to joy, right now, by doing this visualization, that seems more valuable to me than, you know, telling you how to make six figure seven figures, whatever, you know, to me, other people, you know, they have other ideas, and that's wonderful. And, and I don't proclaim to, you know, claim to be able to help with those things. But I know how to find joy and I know how to cultivate it so that you can have that experience. And that's, you know, that's the first step is to recognize that you are responsible for your experience and when you know this, not in like fault blame shame kind of a way, in an empowering way, then you can just choose and choose and choose. Just keep choosing that thing that makes you feel good now, it doesn't change anything, have goals, do all the other stuff, too. That's amazing. But, you know, given that we only have this moment here, guaranteed why not make this one enjoyable? You know?

Brandon Handley 35:16 Yeah, no, agreed, agreed. And, you know, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm a law of attraction guy, if I'm, you know, in that space, right, this is how I would, you know, kind of liken it would, and I don't know who it is, there's plenty of them out there. That's like, you know, the happiness doesn't kind of come later comes now, right. And if you can be happy now, and whatever the circumstance, like you're talking about, then you can make that choice. Again, like you're talking about all the time. You can find joy all the time, and anything and all you've got to do is again, like you're saying, If I go through the morning, and I had this visualization, I'm like, Well, I'm feeling the feels. It's all there for me, everything's great. Ah, and then like, you know, late in the day, I'm not so feeling the feels. And I'm like, Well, wait a second. early in the day, I was feeling the feels. And this was like that kind of anchor point. Right? Let me get back to that for a second. Because I created that moment for myself. Right, versus kind of letting something outside of me create that it was me who did that Creator of all these things, then, here I am. I'm always like, kind of high vibe. And I'm always like, buzzing, right. And then, you know, you're basically sending that out into the universe, right? Like, just kind of this this high vibe. And, you know, if we act as if the universe is a force multiplier, right? We know that like anything, you'd come out and throw out, there's coming back at you like, Well, I better stop, throw a monkey poo, right, like and start the things that I could really use in my life that I want in my life. And then you know, and visualize that and see it, feel it and release it right. I think that's important, too, is kind of just like, release it and not hang on to the idea that it has to happen, right? You're talking about the people that are like, well, this, Aaron, I tried this for three days, and it didn't show up. My life did not change the way you said it was. And I've you know, I've been doing all the things you tell me to do. But I mean, the idea, again, is to go through those fields, have them do the visualization. And release it because again, you're creating your own, you're creating your own space, please in time, let's face that, right.

Erin Mac 37:25 Yeah. And I got two things to say about that. One is I want to talk about the difference between happiness, his idea of happiness and joy, because they're different. And I forgot what the other one is. But I'll talk about the happiness, the joy, that one the rest will come. Right. So to me the difference between happiness and joy is that happiness is fleeting, right? It's you get the new car, it's amazing. Eventually, it's just a car, right? It gets you from A to B, and this game of, you know, getting the things to make you feel good, it feels good for like this amount of time, right. And I only know that because I did all those things. I had the houses and the cars and the successful business and the time flexibility, all the things that everybody would want. And I literally kept like going over finish lines. And going, yay, hooray. I'm happy right now. And then, like, when I was doing trap all the stuff of go across the finish line, I would go home after celebrating for like five minutes. I mean, maybe like half hour or whatever, go home and find another race that I could either crush my time in that was longer hard or whatever. Like there was no end to it, like a couldn't win that race ever. Joy, on the other hand, encompasses some of the you know, the exuberance and all of that Not always, but it can include those. But it also has these nuances of like stillness and peace of mind, which is not thinking all the time thing. Or overthinking and calm. Right. And so those nuances are available and so rich, you know, they're either things I didn't know existed. I had no I mean, maybe I'd heard those words before, but I didn't really understand them on a deeper level. You know, and so, those differences are important, because the one you just can't win out. So yeah, get all the things and be super abundant and all the ways just recognize that the journey inside is the one that has purpose and meaning the one on the outside where we collect things. Those are super cool and fun too. They just don't. They don't fill you up as a human

Brandon Handley 40:01 I think that I think that those are important distinctions, right? Happiness quick and fleeting, right? and joy is a little bit more kind of like a long lasting coal and Ember of warmth, right? Yeah. But a state of being. Yeah. So let me see here. Two things, two things. So I liken this, what we're doing here is like spiritual speed dating, right? Like somebody's gonna, somebody's gonna tune in, they're like, you know, I'm looking for my next spiritual date. Right? And, and this could be you. So I'm gonna ask you at least one kind of, you know, question is that, uh, you know, let me see here, whoa, yeah. Why are so many people depressed?

Erin Mac 40:47 Okay, so call it depression, call it anxiety, call it whatever you want any low level experience, which is anything that doesn't feel good stress, overwhelm, worry, all those lovely words, they're the same thing. They are the experience of the human wanting to control people and circumstances to fit in how they want them to show up, or they don't feel good. And the unconscious recognition at the same time that it is impossible to control people and circumstances and events to fit into your agenda. And so you can see where that those two things butting up against each other would create some confusion. And so that confusion looks like anxiety, depression, you know, all the it's, we have this new, we've touched on it before the belief thing, right? So it's foundational, we made up everybody has them. I've not met anybody yet, who does not have these very core ones that are things like, I don't deserve, I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough. I'm not lovable, you know. And they're all basically the same thing. Like, I'm not good enough. And so those are underlying all of our decisions and how we're feeling about ourselves. And then we interact with other people. Based on those beliefs, we have decided what's right and wrong. So that's how people are supposed to show up for us, and how circumstances are supposed to show up for us. And so we got into this habit of we learned this piece about when this person says something or the circumstance doesn't turn out how I want, then somehow it's their fault, right? So if that person said something, and they're rude, instead of that person said something triggered something in me that did not feel good. What is that? And why is that there? When we look at that with wonder and curiosity and go interesting, because I guarantee whatever is triggering, you is not triggering me. So that's how, you know, it's all you.

Brandon Handley 43:06 It's true. Um, you know, if if I was spiritually looking for a date, then then I would say, Hey, what's up? I'm good. And I agree, you know, I don't think there's a piece in there that I disagree with. So So thank you, I think that's a great answer to to it, right? Everybody's still trying to control the outcomes in some way, shape, or form. And when they're not turning out the way they want them to. They're not they're not accepting it. Right? They don't see it. And I think that the idea of approaching these triggers with wonder and curiosity versus like, kind of anger and angst is also really why is this can trigger still here. Right? So it makes sense. And I love it. So and what else I know that we talked about, you know, you're doing the work that you're doing now, but you've got a new endeavor, what are you, you know, what are you leaning into next?

Erin Mac 44:00 Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited. I'm working with couples right now. I just finished doing my pilot course, on partnership. And the reason I'm so excited about it is, well, first of all, I truly believe we are here for spiritual development, or you call self development or whatever you want to call it consciousness. And when we recognize that that's why we're here and that all these you know, challenges that come into our life are for the purpose of our growth, then we can, you know, grow and heal and enjoy ourselves, right? Well, what happens when you bring two people together, that understand that there's a process to healing and growing and understand that same process in a way where, you know, in couples, it's like, it's easy to see how escalation can happen because it's like, especially when I've just told you what's going on. Right. So You said this thing, it made me feel bad, you know, right. So instead of, you know, we do this responsibly, so then we go, Oh, you said this thing, I feel bad. There's nothing that you can do to make me feel better, I'm in charge of making me feel better. And then they can support you in that, right? And then instead of escalating it's support, right? So it's not, you made me feel this way. It's, I feel this way, and it doesn't feel good. And, you know, support me in that instead of like, get your beliefs and you know, the things in your life that aren't working out and escalate, escalate, escalate, it's like, no, this is mine, I own it, it doesn't feel good. And then the two of you work together in that capacity. And it's just amazing to watch couples, it's exponential, because not only is their relationship so much better, but think of the impact that will have on their kids, the rest of their family, when they can see two fully functioning adults coming together, helping support each other in their spiritual growth. It's phenomenal. And so that sounds awesome. That

Brandon Handley 46:15 sounds awesome. So where does, you know? What, who's your ideal client? Like in this space? Right? So I think we got two types of ideal clients, you got the partners, ideal clients, and then you've got your, your, your standard practice clients, what is what are they?

Erin Mac 46:30 So ultimately, you know, being an entrepreneur for like, 21 or two years now, entrepreneurs, like me, for some reason, because I get their craziness, I understand that they are under the gun and responsible for a lot of things. And those, typically, and leaders to write just people have a lot of responsibility. That, you know, like to make all the things work out, you know, like to control all the things, those are the people that I ended up working with, because I get them, I was them. And I still have nuances of that, of course, you know, so working on me, and all that all the things. And then couples who are recognizing that, you know, especially when you're coming together as maybe two, what do they call that the set called the two families come together to blend in? Yeah. Like, I've noticed quite a few couples that are interested in working with me, that have that situation, because it's, you know, it's already challenging being in partnership, but then you bring in the kids and just escalates all the things. And so, you know, any couple, of course, who's having an issue, wanting to communicate in a deeper way or, you know, deepen their relationship in some way. Fantastic. And, you know, it's super challenging when you're bringing in, you know, other kids and into the mix and all that. Yeah, it's

Brandon Handley 48:05 hard enough with your own, right. Yeah, for sure. So and where then, where Then should I send people to come and find you, if they're interested?

Erin Mac 48:18 I think probably the best place to find me is on Instagram. My handle is Aaron, er, I N m A C LLC. And I post like a weekly video on some sort of strategy or something to think about. And I put like, inspirational memes and my stories. And my website URL is in the profile as well. It's a good way to interact with me, you can DM me, you can private message me or whatever. You know, and I always whenever I'm on a podcast, I offer a free I call it step one to joy call to just get you on the path, you know, maybe I you know disseminate the, the visualization process a little bit further so that you can get started on that and your life or whatever that looks like. And if afterwards, you still want to hang out with me and learn more than great if you don't, no strings attached. It's just my way of being in service.

Brandon Handley 49:21 Awesome. And thanks so much for being on today. Thanks for what you do, right? You know, being able to help people make that transition from a Bumble of nerves into something, you know, a little bit more usable and functional in society. I mean, there's the there's a reason why that's your calling. So thank you for being of service and doing that for everybody out there.

Erin Mac 49:47 Oh my gosh, thanks for having me. And thanks for having these platforms. It's really important to have these conversations, giving people hope and strategies and just something to think about that's, you know, positive I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much. Absolutely.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai