Krisserin and Kelton sit down with Ali Gordon, author of "We Have Reached the End of Our Show," to discuss her unconventional path to publication without an agent. Ali shares how she wrote her debut novel during the pandemic as a "cozy treehouse" where she could escape—a meditation on grief and the end of the world inspired by her experience losing both parents to cancer within two years.

The conversation digs into the brutal reality of querying: from agents who loved her novella but wouldn't represent it without expansion, to the personal sting of form rejections when you've poured your trauma onto the page. Ali explains why she stopped "tap dancing" in her query letters and started reaching out directly to independent publishers—landing at Wildling Press, where the entire team read her manuscript within weeks and called to say "we all cried, we love it."

Ali gets honest about the trade-offs of publishing with a small press (no advance, years of unpaid work) versus the reward of working with people genuinely in love with your material. She reflects on how querying hurt her feelings in ways even acting school rejection never did, why writing "in love" with your project matters more than outlining obligations, and how four hours of forced airplane boredom gave her the idea for her next (hopefully funny) novel.

Plus: Kelton's toddler still isn't sleeping so she's giving herself permission to rest despite memoir proposal deadlines, Krisserin shares the embarrassing story of fumbling repeated follow-ups from an interested agent twelve years ago, and both hosts grapple with social media metrics while pushing toward their January deadlines in a season when they should be pulling back.

Learn more about Ali Gordon:
Website: https://www.whatdoesaligordondo.com/
Book: "We Have Reached the End of Our Show"
Instagram: @msalicenutting

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Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com
The Rewilding

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios