Kelton crossed 78,000 words this week and has officially retired the word-count goal in favor of structural editing, while Krisserin wrapped a craft essay for her IAIA mentor and is bracing for a stack of looming MFA deadlines. Both hosts admit the season is already busy — school fundraiser season, novel revisions, and the general chaos of trying to write while parenting — but they're feeling good.

Then comedy writer and teacher Caitlin Kunkel joins to talk about her new book, Inside Jokes: A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers, co-written with Elissa Bassist. Caitlin breaks down comedy as a learnable, technical skill: how to spot a "confident idiot," why beginning writers bury their best joke in the middle of a sentence, and how "benign violation theory" explains why some jokes land and others don't. She traces her own path from drama-school seriousness to satire at The Second City, talks about baking comedy into a story's premise (Kevin Wilson's Nothing to See Here, Hilary Leichter's Temporary), and digs into how humor differs across generations, platforms, and audiences.

The conversation ranges from Patricia Lockwood's physical comedy to the ethics of joking about self-harm to why farts are, categorically, funny. Krisserin and Kelton close out with their goals for the week — five chapters of edits for Kelton, 2,500 words and another craft essay for Krisserin — plus a listener book recommendation to add to the TBR pile.

PRE-ORDER Inside Jokes, A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers by Caitlin Kunkle and Elissa Bassist, available October 20, 2026.

Follow Caitlin:
https://caitlinkunkel.com/
Instagram: @kunkeltron

Books Mentioned in this episode:
Inside Jokes: A Comedy and Creativity Guide for All Writers by Caitlin Kunkel & Elissa Bassist
New Erotica for Feminists: Satirical Fantasies of Love, Lust, and Equal Pay by Caitlin Kunkel
Nothing to See Here by Kevin Wilson
Temporary by Hilary Leichter
A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole
My Sister, the Serial Killer by Oyinkan Braithwaite
Big Swiss by Jen Beagin
Sky Daddy by Kate Folk
Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood
Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash
Hollow Bones by Jodi Picoult
Float Plan by Trish Doller
The Lost Journals of Sacagawea by Debra Magpie Earling

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton are back for Season 3 and this summer, one of them actually wrote a book. Kelton hit 66,000 words on her rom-com after finally abandoning her identity as a "pantser" and writing from a full outline for the first time. Krisserin did not write a novel. She'll tell you exactly why.

Instead, Krisserin spent six of eight summer weeks away from her desk — an MFA residency at the Institute of American Indian Arts, a 20th-anniversary trip to Vancouver and Victoria, two weeks in Portland and two weeks in Japan — and quietly began a new auto-fictional, historical project after officially parting ways with her literary agent this spring. It's the kind of summer that makes their European listener's advice to "slow down and do less" land a little differently.

They talk honestly about why the agent split happened, the particular exhaustion of a summer with no rest in it, and the very different ways outlining has recently rewired Kelton's drafting process. Plus: rom-com craft talk, a debate about whether Princess Donut is safe, and an open call for anyone with boat knowledge who wants to be an alpha reader.

Season 3 is officially underway — and they're looking for debut authors to feature. If that's you, or you know someone, get in touch.

Books mentioned in this episode:
Battleborn by Claire Vaye Watkins
Dungeon Crawler Carl series by Matt Dinniman
Nora Goes Off Script and Same Time Next Summer by Annabelle Monaghan
Booby Moon: A Weaning Book for Toddlers, Creating Magic, Wonder, and Ritual for a More Joyful Experience for All by Yvette Reid, illustrated by Camilo Zapeta

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Season two is officially in the books 🎉

This week, we’re doing something a little different: opening up the listener survey and sharing what surprised us, what made us laugh, what made us rethink things, and what we’re taking into season three.

We get into:

• The biggest takeaways from your survey responses
• Who’s actually listening (writers… and surprisingly, a lot of non-writers)
• The topics you want more of next season (writer burnout, mental health, money, motherhood, revision, and creative sustainability)
• What worked—and didn’t—with guest episodes
• Dream guests and future episode ideas
• How writers actually pay the bills
• Accountability partners, writing communities, and whether we should finally start a Pen Pals Slack
• What it means to pursue creative goals when life keeps happening

We also reflect on feedback we received this season, talk about how we think about criticism and community, and share what we’re excited to experiment with next.

Thank you for listening, emailing, sharing episodes, and spending another season with us. Whether you’re drafting your novel, revising, dreaming about starting, or just here for two friends trying to make something meaningful while juggling real life—we’re so glad you’re here.

See you in season three ❤️

Mentioned in this episode:
"real eyes realize real lies: on Yesteryear and selling out" by Haley at Brain Stew on Substack.

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Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Kelton brings on one of her favorite outdoor writers: Heather Hansman, award-winning journalist, contributing editor at Outside Magazine, and author of Downriver and Powder Days. Heather's newest book, Fierce Country, uncovers the stories of three women — Grand Canyon guide Georgie White, environmental philosopher Dolores LaChapelle, and wilderness guide Anne LaBastille — who shaped how we think about public land, conservation, and who gets to feel at home in the outdoors. Their stories were largely ignored. Heather spent years in archives fixing that.

The conversation covers what it actually takes to build a freelance writing career in the outdoor space (grindier than it looks), how Heather knew Fierce Country was a book and not just a great magazine piece, what it was like to report on women who left no living children and whose archives were sitting in a stranger's spare room, and why she thinks the key to pitching is making the editor's job as easy as possible. She also talks about her morning commute ritual, Ann Friedman's advice to "kiss sideways," and why she initially resisted the idea of writing about women at all.

Plus: Kelton and Krisserin close out the season with listener shoutouts, survey news, and summer goals — including Kelton's Caribbean rom-com that plotted itself out in one feverish afternoon.

Books Mentioned in this Episode:

Powder Days: Ski Bums, Ski Towns, and the Future of Chasing Snow by Heather Hansman
Downriver: Into the Future of Water in the West by Heather Hansman
London Falling by Patrick Radden Keefe
Horses by Jake Skeets 
Daytime Moon by Kerri Schlottman
Funny You Should Ask by Elissa Sussman 
Off Campus Series by Elle Kennedy

 
Follow Heather:
Website: heatherhansman.com
Instagram: @hhansman

Pre-order Fierce Country at your local indie bookstore or Bookshop.org — pub date July 14, 2026

📋 WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU! Pen Pals has a listener survey and we need your feedback to make the show even better. Fill it out at: https://form.typeform.com/to/kIosWT3L — it takes just a few minutes and means the world to us.

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

📋 WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU! Pen Pals has a listener survey and we need your feedback to make the show even better. Fill it out at: https://form.typeform.com/to/kIosWT3L — it takes just a few minutes and means the world to us.

In this late-season check-in, Krisserin and Kelton answer a listener letter from Paige, a new mom asking whether to return to her pandemic-era novel or start one of her shiny new ideas. Their answer surprises even them — and leads to an honest conversation about burnout, creative momentum, and how to use stolen writing time when life refuses to pause. Plus: Dungeon Crawler Carl, and the listener survey you really should fill out.

Books mentioned in this episode:

- Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinniman
- Nora Goes Off Script by Annabelle Monaghan
- Unstuck by Ramona Ausubel 
- The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss
- The Easter Parade by Richard Yates
- Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton are running on fumes — sleep-deprived, burned out, and staring down a summer deadline that feels impossible. Enter Amanda Fletcher: writer, breathwork practitioner, PEN Center USA Emerging Voices fellow, and one of the most magnetic people in the Los Angeles literary community. Amanda shares her winding path from born storyteller to mathlete to kinesiology major, and the losses that knocked her off course — including her mother's death by suicide when Amanda was 24. What followed was over a decade of addiction, a broken neck, and eventually the writing classes and recovery community that brought her back to the page. Amanda explains how she discovered breathwork in early sobriety, why she believes our stories are imprinted on our nervous systems, and how the same limiting beliefs that block our creativity can be unlocked through intentional breathing. She guides listeners through a simple breathwork exercise they can use before a writing session, and makes the case that getting unstuck as a writer might start with getting out of your head and into your body.

Follow Amanda:
Instagram: @theamandafletcher
Email: [email protected]
Website: amandafletcher.me

Amanda's upcoming virtual breathwork sessions:
Tuesday, June 2 at 6pm PT

Saturday, June 6 at 8am PT

Saturday, June 20 at 8am PT

Saturday, June 27 at 10am PT

Tuesday, June 30 at 6pm PT

Books Mentioned in this Episode:
"The Ogress and the Orphans" by Kelly Barnhill 
"Piranesi" by Susanna Clarke 
"White Oleander" by Janet Fitch 
"The War of Art" by Steven Pressfield 
"A Million Little Pieces" by James Frey 
"Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter" by Heather Fawcett

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin checks in from a Kansas City hotel room fresh off an unexpected ER visit in St. Louis — chest pains, a CT scan, and a lot of unanswered questions — while Kelton battles a household plague of sickness, broken blow-dryers, and postpartum burnout. The two trade brutally honest book reviews: Krisserin DNFs the buzzy bestseller Yesteryear (great concept, rough execution), while Kelton grinds through the literary sci-fi of The Other Valley and falls head over heels for Heather Fawcett's Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter. They dig into what makes good writing actually good — from research depth to character arcs to the controversial no-quotation-marks device — and commiserate over nepo babies in Hollywood, the guilt of not writing, and the importance of just taking care of yourself when life is beating you up. This week's goals: a spa treatment in Vegas and some middle grade fiction in the mountains.

Books Mentioned in this episode:

"Yesteryear" by Caro Claire Burke
"The Other Valley" by Scott Alexander Howard
"Agnes Aubert's Mystical Cat Shelter" by Heather Fawcett
"Piranesi" by Susanna Clarke
"Dungeon Crawler Carl" by Matt Matt Dinniman
"The Ogress and the Orphans" by Kelly Barnhill
"The Bear and the Nightingale" by Katherine Arden

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

This week on Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton sit down with debut novelist Alli Hoff Kosik to discuss her buzzy new novel, Too Blessed to Stress — a sharp, funny, and unexpectedly tender story about Christian influencers, megachurch culture, and the complicated women behind perfectly curated feeds.

Alli shares how a pandemic-era fascination with influencer culture inspired the book, why she wanted to approach her characters with empathy instead of judgment, and how social media, capitalism, faith, and performance intersect online. They also discuss writing motherhood into real life, balancing creativity with burnout, MFA programs, multiple POV novels, and the challenge of building a writing life while raising small children.

Plus: Secret Lives of Mormon Wives comparisons, parasocial internet rabbit holes, writing routines, podcasting, and whether Krisserin and Kelton actually sound the same.

Books Mentioned in This Episode
The Other Valley by Scott Alexander Howard
The Giver by Lois Lowry
Prep by Curtis Sittenfeld
Such a Fun Age by Kiley Reid
Come and Get It by Kiley Reid
Maame by Jessica George
Love by the Book by Jessica George
Confessions of a Shopaholic by Sophie Kinsella
Long Bright River by Liz Moore
Nightshade by Eli Raphael

Find Alli Hoff Kosik
Website: Alli Hoff Kosik Official Website
Instagram: @allihoffkosik
Substack: https://allihoffkosik.substack.com/
Podcast: Is This a Thing? with Abby Wolfe
Buy Too Blessed to Stress on Bookshop.org

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton are running on fumes—and they're honest about it. Both hosts arrive at this week's accountability check-in feeling ragged: Krisserin is limping toward summer with a fried brain and a work trip on the horizon; Kelton is two years postpartum, pausing her newsletter for the month, and trying to remember what living feels like. Their respective goal updates are modest and real: Krisserin squeezed in two revision sessions (one of them in the car), while Kelton wrote 2,500 words—just not on her novel.
 
Krisserin and Kelton spend most of the episode answering listener mail. Kelly Barrett's six questions become the backbone of a wide-ranging conversation about AI (how they use it at work, why neither uses it for their own writing, and what happens when you catch your home assistant lying), reading life (when, how, how much, and what to do when a book isn't working), and self-publishing as a real option rather than a last resort.
 
Plus: dream therapy intake forms, artist dates in rural Colorado, thrift store prices that are absolutely not okay, and goals for a week when one spouse is heading into the mountains.
 
Books mentioned:
Starling House by Alix E. Harrow
The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern
Coyote America by Dan Flores
The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron
Sevenwaters Series by Juliet Marillier
 
Big thank you to Kelly Barrett for her very thoughtful listener letter. She writes the newsletter Practice Not Perfect at kellybarrett.substack.com. 

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton sit down with writer Rachael Maddux (Life Expectancy: A Memoir, The Void, Third Person) to talk about what happens when a book you’ve spent 14 years writing never sells through traditional channels — and how you decide to make it exist anyway. Rachael walks us through her journey from first draft to cold querying agents to three years on submission to ultimately self-publishing through Ingram Spark. They get into the real mechanics: ISBNs, the difference between fulfillment and distribution, what your agent can still do for you after a book doesn’t sell, and why self-publishing still carries a weird “stank” in literary circles.

Plus: writing groups as lifelines, reading as a writer, mortality as a muse, and the moment you realize your friends actually showed up. Also featuring a very special cameo from Krisserin’s mom, Kennette.

Find Rachael Maddux
Website: rachaelmaddux.com
Instagram: @rachaelmaddux
Life Expectancy: A Memoir — Bookshop.org | Amazon

Books Mentioned in this Episode
Mary Magdalene Once Upon a Time by Kennette Canary — Amazon
Book of Claire by Kennette Canary — Wattpad
The Star Who Lost Her Shine by Alex Huey Evans (debut picture book, coming Summer 2026) — alexhueyevans.com | Amazon | Barnes & Noble
Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell
The Keeper by Tana French
Works by Clarice Lispector

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios