Kelton gets her first agent rejection and refuses to sugarcoat it—while Krisserin shares what she learned about advances, deal structures, and editor wish lists from her meeting with agent Kima Jones.

Then bestselling author Cait Flanders joins to tell the unlikely origin story of The Year of Less—how a blogged shopping ban went viral on Forbes, attracted six literary agents, and became a Wall Street Journal bestseller now resurfacing on TikTok a decade later. Cait gets refreshingly transparent about advances, earning out, switching publishers, and the real tension between maintaining a SubStack audience and carving out space to write her third book.

Plus: middle grade fiction advocacy, a genre-busting reading challenge, and why Kelton’s only goal this week is to read a book.

Find Cait Flanders:
Website: www.caitflanders.com
Substack: caitflanders.substack.com
Instagram: @caitflanders

Books by Cait Flanders:
The Year of Less (Hay House) — Wall Street Journal Bestseller
Adventures in Opting Out (Little Brown Spark) 

Books Mentioned in This Episode: 
“October, October” by Katya Balen 
“The Names” by Florence Knapp 
“The Housemaid” by Frieda McFadden 
“Annihilation” by Jeff VanderMeer 
“Lady Tremaine” by Rachel Hochhauser 
“The Ogress and the Orphans” by Kelly Barnville 

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
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YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

We couldn't just talk about Emily Zipps' debut author survey — we had to talk to her. Krisserin and Kelton sit down with Emily herself — author of Alice Rue Evades the Truth and the forthcoming The Two Lives of Amelia Waxler (both from Dial Press) — to dig into what inspired her to survey 60 fellow debut authors, what surprised her in the results, and what she found genuinely hopeful.

Find Emily online:
Instagram & Threads: @emilyzipps
Website: emilyzipps.com
Substack (Fun Announcements and Sporadic Thoughts): emilyzipps.substack.com
Emily Zipps' Debut Author Survey: https://substack.com/home/post/p-185355080

Books: Alice Rue Evades the Truth (available now) | The Two Lives of Amelia Waxler (forthcoming 2027)

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
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YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

What does a debut author actually get paid? Krisserin and Kelton dig into Emily Zips' survey data and don't love what they find—average two-book deals for $50K, most authors working day jobs, and advances that won't cover daycare.

Plus: Kelton's Scrivener file predicted her dream agent, Instagram shadow ban drama, the identity question of "writer vs. mom," and why chapter summaries feel like showing your work in seventh grade math. Krisserin's IAIA MFA application is complete, and someone's getting paid $100 per chapter summary—into their own savings account.

Books Mentioned in This Episode:
• "The Possession of Alba Diaz" by Isabel Cañas
• "Soul Searching" by Lyla Sage

Resources Mentioned:
• Emily Zipps' Debut Author Survey

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin panics her way through a grad school application (wrong link, wrong deadline, wrong page numbers), while Kelton enters the querying trenches—19 Google Docs open, three agents contacted, and the immediate certainty that something went wrong. But the real treat this week is their interview with Mark Sarvas, award-winning author of Memento Park and Harry, Revised, Krisserin's longtime teacher and mentor from the UCLA Extension Writers Program.

Mark shares the full arc of his writing journey—from burnt-out screenwriter to literary blogger with 50,000 daily readers to novelist who didn't publish until 44. He talks about the "non-recurring phenomenon" of finding his agent Simon Lipskar at Writer's House, why he did eight full drafts of his first novel before sending a single query, and the love-match quality of the right agent relationship. The conversation digs into the changing landscape of publishing, including the rise of ghosting culture that's infected even longtime editor-agent relationships, and why platform obsession is the wrong focus for fiction writers—citing his former student Miranda Heller, whose debut The Paper Palace became a number one New York Times bestseller without any social media presence.

Mark gets practical about what writers should invest in (build your library first, always), the hierarchy of residencies from $500-a-week cabins to fully funded month-long stays in France, and the writing retreat he runs on the Monterey Peninsula with his partner Jennifer's literary organization, To the Lighthouse. He explains his workshop philosophy—why the day your work gets critiqued is the least important day, why "I wanted" is a banned phrase in his classroom, and why you should submit your weakest chapter, not your strongest.

Plus: Kelton gets feedback from a well-connected friend that splinters her querying path, Mark reveals he's working on a historical novel with multiple POVs (a deliberate challenge after three first-person books), and both hosts celebrate the rare achievement of actually completing their weekly goals.

Learn more about Mark Sarvas:
Website: marksarvas.com
Blue Sky: marksarvas.bsky.social
Newsletter: The Eternal Recurrence
2026 Fiction Writing Retreat with Mark Sarvas, To the Lighthouse: https://www.tothelighthouse.net/retreats

Books by Mark Sarvas:
MEMENTO PARK (FSG)
HARRY, REVISED (Bloomsbury)
@UGMAN (ITNA Press)

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Kelton's inbox delivers a dream: an agent from a respected agency slid into her DMs after discovering her writing on Substack. The excitement is real—but so is the anxiety of navigating what comes next. Do you query other agents simultaneously? How do you know if you vibe? And what does a "good deal" actually mean on Publisher's Marketplace?

This week, Kelton and Krisserin break down the research-heavy world of finding representation—from decoding deal tiers to building agent lists through comp titles and genre searches. Krisserin shares wisdom from her own querying journey, including her stack-ranked spreadsheets, red flags to watch for, and the agent who dared to criticize her exposition after requesting only three pages.

The conversation gets real about money: advances that barely cover childcare, dental insurance regrets, and why writers need to stop treating book deals like lottery tickets and start asking themselves what their financial goals actually are. Plus: the ethics of getting rich by caring a little less, and why Krisserin's book absolutely deserves a "major" deal.

Goals for the week: Kelton's querying three agents after polishing her prologue, and Krisserin's taking a rare self-care day—spa, library, latte, and maybe some editor research if the vibes are right.

Support Minnesota:
• Women's Foundation of Minnesota: https://www.wfmn.org/funds/immigrant-rapid-response/
• Publishing for Minnesota Auction: https://www.32auctions.com/publishingforMN 

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
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YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

What happens when a designer walks into a Manhattan publishing office with paper prototypes that look like children's toys? In this episode, Kelton reconnects with Vicki Tan, a former colleague from Headspace turned author, to explore her unconventional path to publishing Ask This Book a Question—an interactive cognitive bias book that defies easy categorization.

Vicki shares how a chance conversation with a friend (who also connected her with an agent) led to an in-person pitch meeting, a two-year pandemic pause, and ultimately a bidding war between major publishers. She reveals why the stories in her book matter more than the science, how her original editor leaving mid-project changed the final product, and why she still doesn't call herself an author. Plus: the upcoming companion card deck, the power of comp titles when your book doesn't fit a genre, and why the most interesting ideas are often the hardest to pitch.

Also in this episode: Kelton starts agent shopping with a 12-person spreadsheet, Krisserin recovers from Miami work travel, and a listener question about repurposing Substack essays for publication.

Links:

• Vicki's website: vickitan.com/book
• Instagram: @vickiheart

Books Vicki Recommended:

• The Paper Menagerie by Ken Liu
• Subtle by Kenya Hara
• Universal Principles of Design by William Lidwell, Kritina Holden, and Jill Butler

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
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SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton kick off 2026 by getting real about the challenge of creating art in turbulent times—from doom-scrolling to feeling like your work is too small for the moment. Then they're joined by New York Times and USA Today bestselling author JT Ellison, who has written more than 30 psychological thrillers and domestic noir novels and co-hosts the Emmy Award-winning "A Word on Words" on Nashville PBS.

The conversation dives deep into the realities of a 20-year writing career: co-writing six books with Catherine Coulter (and learning how a #1 bestseller actually works), launching a fantasy series under pen name Joss Walker because algorithms don't forgive genre-hopping, and the 70,000-word wall where every book makes her want to jump off a cliff.

The trio discusses industry myths (bad sales track can absolutely be overcome with a book they can't ignore), the creative cost of social media pile-ons, and Stephen King's wisdom about writing with the door closed. JT shares her current aspiration after two decades of hustle: ease. Just write one book a year and enjoy it. Plus: major news that her Taylor Jackson series just sold to Thomas and Mercer for a full reboot.

Whether you're dreaming of your first book deal or your thirtieth, JT's journey offers proof that the path to publication rarely looks like you expect—and that sometimes the detours are exactly what your writing needs. Goals: Kelton plans to finish and send her memoir proposal to a friend for review, while Krisserin focuses on completing her grad school application essay and tinkering with the ending of her short story.

JT's Book Recommendations:

• Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier
• None of This Is True by Lisa Jewell
• Outlander by Diana Gabaldon

Connect with JT Ellison:
Subscribe to JT's Substack: The Creative Edge
Visit JT's Website: jtellison.com
Follow JT's Instagram: @thrillerchick

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

In their final episode of 2025, Krisserin and Kelton reflect on a year that transformed them both—32 episodes of accountability, pivot points, and hard-won victories. While Krisserin celebrates landing an agent and finishing her duology, Kelton reveals her elaborate "Year of 40" planning document complete with astrological mapping and a manifestation app.

Looking ahead to 2026, Kelton unveils her ambitious plans—the Rewilding winter practice, a new monthly writing group called the Murmuration, and manifesting a business partner with a very specific JD. Krisserin's playing it closer to the vest, applying to an MFA program and hoping for a book deal she's still too protective of her heart to fully visualize. 

Between debates about who's more commercially-minded (Capricorn wins), pleas for listener ratings, and their characteristic mix of commiseration and ambition, this episode celebrates what a year of showing up—for your writing and for each other—can actually accomplish.

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

In this episode of Pen Pals, Krisserin and Kelton confront the reality of December's chaotic energy—where seasonal disruptions, holiday stress, and looming daycare closures threaten to derail their writing routines entirely. While Kelton grapples with her lack of structure (going without coffee until noon, navigating postpartum dairy restrictions, and awaiting news of hand-foot-and-mouth disease), Krisserin celebrates a hollow victory: typing "THE END" on her manuscript, only to feel completely disconnected from the work.

The friends trade strategies for building sustainable writing habits in the midst of life's upheaval—from Kelton's plan to reclaim her most reliable morning hour from client work to Krisserin's decision to explore short story writing and grad school applications while her novel rests. They debate the ethics of platform-building on TikTok, where algorithmic luck matters more than generous engagement, and wrestle with the pressure to create "uniquely differentiating" content when billions of people are doing the same thing. Through Emily Halnon's wisdom about training like an athlete and the reminder that 30 minutes of writing beats zero minutes every time, Krisserin and Kelton offer a refreshing antidote to December chaos: sometimes the goal is just to show up, even when showing up feels like the hardest thing in the world.

Write to us:
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Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
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SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios

Krisserin and Kelton sit down with Ali Gordon, author of "We Have Reached the End of Our Show," to discuss her unconventional path to publication without an agent. Ali shares how she wrote her debut novel during the pandemic as a "cozy treehouse" where she could escape—a meditation on grief and the end of the world inspired by her experience losing both parents to cancer within two years.

The conversation digs into the brutal reality of querying: from agents who loved her novella but wouldn't represent it without expansion, to the personal sting of form rejections when you've poured your trauma onto the page. Ali explains why she stopped "tap dancing" in her query letters and started reaching out directly to independent publishers—landing at Wildling Press, where the entire team read her manuscript within weeks and called to say "we all cried, we love it."

Ali gets honest about the trade-offs of publishing with a small press (no advance, years of unpaid work) versus the reward of working with people genuinely in love with your material. She reflects on how querying hurt her feelings in ways even acting school rejection never did, why writing "in love" with your project matters more than outlining obligations, and how four hours of forced airplane boredom gave her the idea for her next (hopefully funny) novel.

Plus: Kelton's toddler still isn't sleeping so she's giving herself permission to rest despite memoir proposal deadlines, Krisserin shares the embarrassing story of fumbling repeated follow-ups from an interested agent twelve years ago, and both hosts grapple with social media metrics while pushing toward their January deadlines in a season when they should be pulling back.

Learn more about Ali Gordon:
Website: https://www.whatdoesaligordondo.com/
Book: "We Have Reached the End of Our Show"
Instagram: @msalicenutting

Write to us:
[email protected]

Follow us:
Instagram: @penpalspod
TikTok: @penpalspod
YouTube: @PenPalsPod
SubStack: penpalspod.substack.com

Follow Krisserin and Kelton:
TikTok: @krisserin, @keltonwrites
Instagram: @keltonkin, @keltonwrites
Kelton's Substack: Shangrilogs
Krisserin's Substack: krisserin.substack.com

Music by Golden Hour Oasis Studios