We're asking how we feel about colour – or more accurately how colours make us feel – and whether that's the same for all of us. 

Join colour specialist Zeynep Sagir and National Gallery host Beks Leary to get emotional about colour. Along the way, we talk about Pablo Picasso’s ‘Blue Period’ and Derek Jarman’s final film ‘Blue’, the calming green of John Constable’s ‘The Cornfield’, and Mark Rothko’s colour field abstractions. And we’ll see just how cultural our perception of colour really is. 

Zeynep is an artist, colour consultant, and founder of The Colour Club. She holds a Master’s degree from Central Saint Martins and spent two years researching colour psychology. Since graduating, she has gone on to become a certified colour consultant and colour therapist. Through The Colour Club, Zeynep runs workshops, hosts events, and offers consultancy, as well as publishing articles and interviews. 

Find out more about The Colour Club on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecolourclub/ 

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/CN0KgUJtjJA

You can email us with any questions via [email protected]

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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To take our short survey about the podcast please visit: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast 

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Paintings mentioned: 

John Constable, ‘The Cornfield’, 1826. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/john-constable-the-cornfield  

Derek Jarman, ‘Blue’, 1993. Tate https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/jarman-blue-t14555  

Vincent van Gogh, ‘Van Gogh’s Chair’, 1888. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/vincent-van-gogh-van-gogh-s-chair  

Vincent van Gogh, ‘Gauguin's Chair’, 1888. Van Gogh Museum, Amsterdam https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/collection/s0048V1962  

Further reading: 

Find out more about The Colour Club here: https://www.thecolourclub.co.uk/  

Josef Albers, Interaction of Color, 1963 

To find out more about research conducted during the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens on how ‘Red enhances human performance in contests’ see: https://www.nature.com/articles/435293a  

Wassily Kandinsky, Concerning the Spiritual in Art, [1911] 

Read the full letter from Vincent van Gogh to his brother Theo, dated on or about Wednesday, 28 October 1885: https://vangoghletters.org/vg/letters/let537/letter.html  

Discover more about Vincent van Gogh’s letters: https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/art-and-stories/stories/all-stories/van-goghs-letters 

Find out more about colour field painting and abstract expressionist artists, such as Mark Rothko, here: https://www.tate.org.uk/art/art-terms/colour-field-painting  

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Episode Credits 

Guest: Zeynep Sagir 

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary 

Producer: Harry Rosehill 

Researcher: Hannah Rogers 

Technicians: Ian Warren and Timothy Carpenter 

Editor: Jeanne Kenyon and Paul Frankl 

Theme music: Theo Elwell 

Mentioned in this episode:

Siena: The Rise of Painting, 1300-1350

Step into Siena. It’s the beginning of the 14th century in central Italy. A golden moment for art, a catalyst of change. Artists Duccio, Simone Martini and the brothers Pietro and Ambrogio Lorenzetti are forging a new way of painting.

Siena Exhibition

National Gallery Members' Digital Programme

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Membership

We're on the search for the 'perfect red' with a pigment and dye that was so prized that it inspired international espionage and piracy, carried the death penalty if exported without a license, and built empires. But today you might find it in your strawberry yoghurt.  

This is the story of how bugs turned the world red with historian and writer Amy Butler Greenfield and National Gallery host Beks Leary. 

Amy is the granddaughter and great-granddaughter of dyers, and her award-winning history of cochineal, 'A Perfect Red', has been published in eight languages. A popular speaker on radio and television programs, Amy was born in Philadelphia, studied history at Oxford, and now lives with her family in Oxfordshire. 

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Z2jEf3QH_ho

You can email us with any questions via [email protected]

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned: 

Workshop of Albrecht Dürer with Hans Baldung Grien, ‘The Virgin and Child ('The Madonna with the Iris')’, about 1500-10. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/workshop-of-albrecht-durer-with-hans-baldung-grien-the-virgin-and-child-the-madonna-with-the-iris 

Titian, ‘The Holy Family with a Shepherd’, about 1510. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/titian-the-holy-family-with-a-shepherd 

Titian, 'Diana and Callisto’, 1556-9. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/titian-diana-and-callisto  

Further reading:

Amy Butler Greenfield, ‘A Perfect Red: Empire, Espionage, and the Quest for the Color of Desire’, 2005 

For more information on ‘The Virgin and Child ('The Madonna with the Iris')’ by Workshop of Albrecht Dürer with Hans Baldung Grien, please see the following volumes of the National Gallery’s Technical Bulletin:  

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/research/research-resources/technical-bulletin/technical-bulletin-volume-21  

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/research/research-resources/technical-bulletin/the-technology-of-red-lake-pigment-manufacture-study-of-the-dyestuff-substrate  

For more information on ‘Titian’s painting techniques before 1540’ see the National Gallery’s Technical Bulletin Volume 34, 2013: http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/technical-bulletin/vol-34-essay-1-2013  

Find out more about the work of artist Elena Osterwalder: https://elenaosterwalder-atelier.com/

Find out more about artist Bosco Sodi: https://www.kasmingallery.com/artists/96-bosco-sodi/

Find out more about red lake pigments in paintings from the National Gallery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B8u2f799KM&list=PLvb2y26xK6Y4V3T1xHphum23El4b93YzC&index=10 

To learn more about the science of colour visit our National Gallery YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvb2y26xK6Y4V3T1xHphum23El4b93YzC 

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Episode credits: 

Guest: Amy Butler Greenfield

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary 

Producer: Harry Rosehill 

Researcher: Hannah Rogers 

Technicians: Ian Warren, Tom Gulliver and Timothy Carpenter 

Editors: Jeanne Kenyon, Alessandro Sorenti and Paul Frankl

Theme music: Theo Elwell 

Mentioned in this episode:

Siena: The Rise of Painting, 1300-1350

Step into Siena. It’s the beginning of the 14th century in central Italy. A golden moment for art, a catalyst of change. Artists Duccio, Simone Martini and the brothers Pietro and Ambrogio Lorenzetti are forging a new way of painting.

Siena Exhibition

José María Velasco: A View of Mexico

See the first UK exhibition of Mexico’s much-loved artist, José María Velasco.

Velasco Exhibition

Meet an enigmatic pigment discovered entirely by accident at the start of the 18th century. Its story involves a rogue inventor with an unlikely connection to Doctor Frankenstein, a characterful trio of Johanns, and a renowned Botticelli forgery. 

This pigment came to be known as Prussian blue or Berlin blue. Before its discovery, a range of blue pigments existed but each had a significant flaw: natural ultramarine was prohibitively expensive, smalt discoloured, azurite turned green and indigo faded. 

Join colour specialist Evie Hatch and National Gallery host Beks Leary for a conversation about the pigment most famously seen in the blue revolution of Japanese woodblock printing, which inspired the Impressionists, as well as in earlier Rococo painting. 

Evie Hatch is an art historian specialising in the history and characteristics of artist pigments. She is the writer and presenter of Jackson's Art Pigment Stories series. 

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: youtu.be/WK1GSvP6VYs

You can email us with any questions via [email protected]

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned: 

Paolo Veronese’s Four Allegories of Love series, about 1575: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/search-the-collection?q=Four+Allegories+of+Love&tpf=&tpt=&acf=&act=  

Probably by Jean-Baptiste Perronneau, A Girl with a Kitten, 1743. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/probably-by-jean-baptiste-perronneau-a-girl-with-a-kitten  

Katsushika Hokusai, Under the Wave off Kanagawa (Kanagawa oki nami ura), also known as The Great Wave, from the series Thirty-six Views of Mount Fuji (Fugaku sanjūrokkei), about 1830-32. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/45434  

Claude Monet, Impression, Soleil Levant, 1872. Musée Marmottan Monet, Paris https://www.marmottan.fr/en/notice/4014/  

Claude Monet, Bathers at La Grenouillère, 1869. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/claude-monet-bathers-at-la-grenouillere  

Umberto Giunti, Forgery in the manner of Sandro Botticelli, Virgin and Child, about 1920-29. The Courtauld, London (Samuel Courtauld Trust) Photo © The Courtauld/Bridgeman Images https://gallerycollections.courtauld.ac.uk/object-p-1947-lf-40  

Further reading: 

Rebecca Solnit, A Field Guide to Getting Lost, 2005 

Deutsche Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin, Miscellanea berolinensia ad incrementum scientiarum, 1710 

For more information on Paolo Veronese’s use of the pigment smalt in the ‘Four Allegories of Love’ series, see the National Gallery’s Technical Bulletin Volume 17, 1996: http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/technical-bulletin/penny_roy_spring1996  

Jackson’s article on Prussian Blue ‘The History of Prussian Blue (and why you won’t find it in most acrylic ranges)’ by Evie Hatch, 2022: https://www.jacksonsart.com/blog/2022/10/07/the-history-of-prussian-blue/  

Watch videos about the science of colour, including ultramarine blue, on the National Gallery YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvb2y26xK6Y4V3T1xHphum23El4b93YzC 

Additional information: 

*Note – Prussia was officially dissolved by the Allied Control Council of occupied Germany on 25 February 1947 

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Episode credits: 

Guest: Evie Hatch 

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary 

Producer: Harry Rosehill 

Researcher: Hannah Rogers 

Technicians: Ian Warren, Jon Sheldon, Ash Baker, Steven Pasquale, Tom Gulliver and Timothy Carpenter 

Editors: Jeanne Kenyon and Amber Akaunu 

Theme music: Theo Elwell 

Mentioned in this episode:

National Gallery Members' Digital Programme

You don't have to be here, to be here! Members get more at the National Gallery.

Membership

Siena: The Rise of Painting, 1300-1350

Step into Siena. It’s the beginning of the 14th century in central Italy. A golden moment for art, a catalyst of change. Artists Duccio, Simone Martini and the brothers Pietro and Ambrogio Lorenzetti are forging a new way of painting.

Siena Exhibition

Welcome to Stories in Colour! We're starting at the very beginning to ask an age-old question: are the colours you see, the same as the colours I see?  

Join Professor Anya Hurlbert from Newcastle University and National Gallery host Beks Leary as they ask whether colour is real and how exactly we see it, stopping off to look at paintings from the National Gallery along the way. We go back to the viral dress that divided the internet in 2015 – was it blue and black, or was it white and gold? This was the moment so many of us discovered that colour is our own – in Anya’s words – personal possession. 

Anya is a Professor of Visual Neuroscience and Dean of Advancement at Newcastle University. Her research focuses on human visual perception: how and why we see what we see. As Scientist Trustee at the National Gallery from 2010-2018, she worked with us on our 2014 ‘Making Colour’ exhibition – bringing together art and science to explain how artists overcame the technical challenges involved in creating colour. 

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: youtu.be/gYTWp_iLRh4

You can email us with any questions via [email protected]

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned: 

Joseph Mallord William Turner, The Fighting Temeraire, 1839. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/joseph-mallord-william-turner-the-fighting-temeraire  

Pierre-Auguste Renoir, The Skiff (La Yole), 1875. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/pierre-auguste-renoir-the-skiff-la-yole  

Claude Monet, Stacks of Wheat (End of Summer), 1890–91. The Art Institute of Chicago https://www.artic.edu/artworks/64818/stacks-of-wheat-end-of-summer  

Claude Monet, Stacks of Wheat (Sunset, Snow Effect), 1890–91. The Art Institute of Chicago https://www.artic.edu/artworks/81545/stacks-of-wheat-sunset-snow-effect  

Claude Monet, Stacks of Wheat (End of Day, Autumn), 1890–91. The Art Institute of Chicago https://www.artic.edu/artworks/14624/stacks-of-wheat-end-of-day-autumn  

Claude Monet, Rouen Cathedral, West Façade, 1894. National Gallery of Art, Washington https://www.nga.gov/artworks/46524-rouen-cathedral-west-facade  

Claude Monet, Rouen Cathedral, West Façade, Sunlight, 1894. National Gallery of Art, Washington https://www.nga.gov/artworks/46654-rouen-cathedral-west-facade-sunlight  

Vincent van Gogh, Sunflowers, 1888. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/vincent-van-gogh-sunflowers  

Hilaire-Germain-Edgar Degas, Combing the Hair ('La Coiffure'), about 1896. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/hilaire-germain-edgar-degas-combing-the-hair-la-coiffure  

Paul Gauguin, Bowl of Fruit and Tankard before a Window, probably 1890. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/paul-gauguin-bowl-of-fruit-and-tankard-before-a-window 

Further reading: 

Various authors, Colour in Nature, 2024 

Curators in Conversation: Making Colour, 2014 https://youtu.be/YJVBaCWj-1Y?si=1KpDGmJPQNiyiWqO 

Find out more about Claude Monet’s series paintings: https://artsandculture.google.com/story/monet-s-rouen-painting-series-the-national-gallery-london/2gXhjhmKqfavLg?hl=en  

Find out more about the blue and gold dress: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/archive/2015/11/isthecolouryouseethesamecolourasisee/

To learn more about the science of colour visit our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvb2y26xK6Y4V3T1xHphum23El4b93YzC 

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Episode credits: 

Guest: Professor Anya Hurlbert 

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary 

Producer: Harry Rosehill 

Researcher: Hannah Rogers 

Technicians: Ian Warren, Tom Gulliver and Timothy Carpenter 

Editors: Jeanne Kenyon and Paul Frankl 

Theme music: Theo Elwell 

Mentioned in this episode:

National Gallery Members' Digital Programme

You don't have to be here, to be here! Members get more at the National Gallery.

Membership

José María Velasco: A View of Mexico

See the first UK exhibition of Mexico’s much-loved artist, José María Velasco.

Velasco Exhibition

How has colour changed the world? A vibrant new podcast from the National Gallery, Stories in Colour launches with our first two episodes on Wednesday 28 May 2025.

The Times ★★★★ ‘There’s lots to enjoy here.’ 

In each episode, we uncover the hidden mysteries woven into colour from antiquity to the present day. 

Along the way, you'll hear from curators, scientists, historians, artists, and more experts, looking at humanity’s efforts to make colour and make meaning with it. 

And amongst these stories, you will see - and hear - the National Gallery’s paintings in a whole new spectrum of light.