Streamed & Screened: Movie and TV Reviews and Interviews

We here at Streamed & Screened watched a lot of shows on broadcast, cable and streaming services in 2023 and there were a lot of great programs including "Succession," "Beef," "The Bear," "Fargo" and "The Last of Us."

But which show was the best? Co-hosts Bruce Miller and Terry Lipshetz had a lot of crossovers but ultimately put two different shows on top. Give a listen and find out which shows ranked in the top 10 for each and why!

Bruce Miller's Top 10 TV shows from 2023

Terry Lipshetz's Top 10 TV shows from 2023

Contact us!

We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Terry Lipshetz: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Streamed & Screened, an entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, managing editor of the national newsroom for Lee and co-host of the program with Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter, and like me, a dedicated, professional couch potato.

Bruce Miller: Oh, the TV is never off in my house. It's always on. It's my family. I'm always watching something. When you started with the pandemic, that's all we had, and then it's just kind of leached over to the rest of our lives. And so now TV is the thing, right?

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. I think back, too, to even the pandemic. Not that I needed another reason to get back into watching more TV, because none of us really need that, but it was a good opportunity to explore a lot of shows because everything got shut down. So it's like, what are you going to do? You can only take so many walks around the block and that kind of thing. So it got me a little bit back into watching some shows, exploring some streaming services that I hadn't really discovered before now, even though, as we talked about in the last episode, with movies, I don't have a lot of time to get to the movie theater. I can always squeeze in one or two episodes of a sitcom, of a drama on Netflix, on Hulu, each and every night. I've seen a lot of what you would probably call premium, top notch television shows from the past year. So I came up with the top ten list. I know you have a top ten list.

Bruce Miller: This was going to be a year where nothing was going to happen because we had strikes and didn't think there was going to be even a fall TV season. I think at the end of the year, we got a few really barn burners. We can still look at 2023 as a great TV year, and 2024, it's even going to be better.

Terry Lipshetz: Yes.

Bruce Miller: Okay.

Terry Lipshetz: Absolutely.

Bruce Miller: So what's in your number ten spot?

Terry Lipshetz: My number ten spot are a series of kind of, like, honorable mentions because I got down, there's like three shows, four shows, which were absolutely at the top of my list. But as I went a little further down, it got a little bit more difficult. So I gave an honorable mention for night court for just not being a terrible reboot. It was an enjoyable reboot. It's not the greatest show out there, but if you're somebody who's, let's say, a gen Xer or a bit older who grew up on night court, it's a fun watch. Go check it out. I was a little disappointed to see this one actually get canceled. Not a great show, but it was one where my wife and I could watch it. It wasn't spectacular, but it was one where we could throw it on and for half an hour be entertained. And that was the reboot for how I met your father. It's definitely not to the level of the original, but that original show, how I met your mother, those characters, they're all roughly my age, so I was always able to identify with them. So I gave how I met your father a chance. We watched it for the two seasons. It was fine. It wasn't spectacular, but it was fine. And then I'm going to give an honorable mention to all the mediocre Star wars shows that I watched this year. Mandalorian, season three, the Bad Batch, season two. Ahsoka. These were not great shows. They were okay. They disappointed me, a lot, in a lot of different ways. But I think about Star wars. Like pizza. No matter how bad Star wars might.

Bruce Miller: Be, it's still good.

Terry Lipshetz: It's still good. It's like pizza. Like pizza. How bad does pizza have to be for you not to want to keep eating it? Right? It would have to be just truly atrocious. So they're fine. They're not spectacular. They're fine. And then there was a handful of other shows that I watched this year, which I'll throw in there, that these are legitimately. I've seen them pop up on some other folk’s top ten lists, but they didn't quite hit it for me in some way or the other. I thought a small light on National Geographic. It was a really nice miniseries. Not top ten for me, but it was a really good look at the story of Anne Frank. And it brought you in a little bit deeper.

Bruce Miller: Sure. From a different perspective.

Terry Lipshetz: Absolutely. Barry. I've loved Barry since the beginning, but I really thought that season one to season two was a little bit of a downturn. Two to three and then three to four, it was okay. I didn't love the ending to it. I couldn't put it in my top ten silo on Apple TV. Plus, it started out slow. It got much better as it went along. My wife and I really liked watching it, so that one was fine. And then the great on Hulu the first season was just raucous and crazy. I thought this last season, it was fine. It took a turn. I don't want to give it away for anyone that maybe missed it or still is. Catching up on programming. one of the main characters won't be back for any future seasons, let's just say that. But they did an okay job with it. It's still one that I like, and, it's a good show and we're definitely going to keep watching it. The first show that I actually gave a number ranking to at number nine is Dave on Hulu and FxX. I guess it is. And that show, man, it's like eating candy for me. I mean, it's crazy. It's a little bit weird, but it's a funny show.

Bruce Miller: My favorite episode had Brad Pitt on it. This.

Terry Lipshetz: Yes. Yep. Yep.

Bruce Miller: I thought that was so brilliant, and he did such a great job with that. But if you haven't discovered Dave, it is an acquired taste. It is not something that everybody will go, well, what is  you know, we'd be like the parents on the show. It's so out there, but it's about a rapper and what he has to do to try and make the career go. Dave is a good choice. I don't have it on my list. But you're up to nine.

Terry Lipshetz: I'm up to nine, yeah.

Bruce Miller: I had succession at number ten, and I bet you have it higher because you like that.

Terry Lipshetz: I love it. Yeah.

Bruce Miller: Okay. I think they got a little too tied up in their own world so that they had nowhere else to go, and so it's great. But it didn't get up higher than ten at nine. I have what we do in the shadows because I think that is my only time to really laugh out loud and make fun of something that's just outrageous. Most of these shows are labeled comedies, but they're just half hour dramas is what it amounts to. But this is one that I can just laugh and laugh and laugh and laugh. And if I had the vampires living next door, I would invite them over.

Terry Lipshetz: I do want to see this one because it takes place on island. Right?

Bruce Miller: Right.

Terry Lipshetz: It is my homeland one runs for office.

Bruce Miller: I mean, you have a lot of things that you could relate, too. So that's my number nine now. Up to eight.

Terry Lipshetz: Eight? Yes.

Bruce Miller: What do you have for eight?

Terry Lipshetz: I had Ted Lasso final season.

Bruce Miller: You know, there were a lot of those. Mrs. Maisel would be another one I'd put on.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah, yeah.

Bruce Miller: I have a couple of other ones that are on there that quit. And how do you include them? Because it's their last year. Should you just ignore them because they're done? Or do you say, this is my final hat tip?

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. For me, it was a little bit of a tip of a cap. I mean, I don't think it was as strong as the previous seasons, but I also felt that it's. Again, sometimes when you get something that's not as good, you look down on it, but then when you put it in perspective, it's still better than a lot of the other things out there. It's just not as good.

Bruce Miller: I have at eight, the last of us, and I bet you have that higher.

Terry Lipshetz: I do, yes. It is on my list, but it is higher than eight.

Bruce Miller: Okay. At seven, I have Reservation Dogs because I love that I lived that. I know that. And I think they ended it really well. I thought they left us all hopeful that these kids are going to turn out all right. So that was my number. Seven. What was your seven?

Terry Lipshetz: Seven. It's similar in theme to the Ted lasso, and that is Mrs. Maisel. Again, it was not the greatest season, but I like the way they approached it by doing the flashbacks and flash forwards. I thought it did a pretty good job at wrapping up the series. I was a little disappointed at times, know, not enough Tony Shalub and that kind of thing. But it's a show that strikes a chord for me personally, growing up out east of Jewish heritage and that kind of thing. So, for me, it's still one of the best shows out there. Absolutely.

Bruce Miller: Okay. What is your number? Six.

Terry Lipshetz: We're up to six. So this one is not on your list. And I think I mentioned it to you previously, and it was either one you hadn't really seen or just didn't get into, but Shrinking on Apple TV, plus Jason Segal and Harrison Ford. I thought this was. It's got a few nominations for, I guess, Golden Globes. Right. There's a few out there. I thought it was witty. I thought it was just, it was one of those where I can kind of. I know I'm going to get a good episode no matter what I watch from it. And it's 30 minutes of just, like, having fun.

Bruce Miller: I will give it fun. I will give it a chance. I saw the first episode and I thought, this isn't me. I don't care.

Terry Lipshetz: Right. But you know what, though? I think maybe it's also, we're at different points of our lives also. Right.

Bruce Miller: I'm more Harrison Ford.

Terry Lipshetz: Right. You are more Harrison Ford. Yeah. And I am a little bit more Jason Segal. Yes.

Bruce Miller: Right.

Terry Lipshetz: Exactly.

Bruce Miller: So what did you have at that point, number six? I have Fellow Travelers. This was a limited series. About two men in the beyond who are closeted and they don't dare come out that they are in a relationship, or they have a relationship, because it was the height of the McCarthy era, and they were putting everything. And so how did their lives turn out? Where did one go? Where did the other go? And I find it very fascinating. Matt Bomer, who was, in white collar and a number of other things, it's one of his best things he's ever. He's. He seems like just a pretty boy, to be honest with you. You could see where he was feeling the strain of this. Jonathan Bailey, who, by the way, is going to be Piero in the musical version of Wicked, when that becomes a movie next year, he's the other guy. And you see how these lives kind of diverged, and then what it's like for them when they come back together many years later and coulda, shoulda, woulda kind of thing like that. I thought it was fascinating because you got to see a bit of history, but you saw it through a different lens. So that's my number six. Number five. What did you have there?

Terry Lipshetz: So five is one, which, again, it's not on your list. And it's the type of show where I think the people that love it, love it, and the people that are less in love with it aren't going to put it on their list. And that's The Crown on Netflix final season. I think the series as a whole has had some ups and downs, but just like the crown. Right. Feels like it always takes me a season to get used to the cast change, because they do two seasons and then they age them. And then two seasons, and then they age them. So I thought last season, it was a little bit difficult getting used to the new Charles, the new Diana. But I really am liking what I've seen so far. I have not caught the second wave of episodes. So we watched, within just a couple of days of them dropping the first wave that came out, and now the second wave is out. So, I don't want to give anything away, but it starts with Diana. We know what happens to Diana, so just spoiler alert there. I know the second half of the season gets a little bit more into Prince William and know his relationship with Kate. I'm looking forward to it. I don't know. I guess it's possible that the show could go up a notch, go down a notch. But that's why I figured five is safe. It's kind of middle of the road.

Bruce Miller: I like the crown, initially, when they switch around a little too much, they do. it bothers me because some of those actors are not as good as others in these roles. And then you get a really good one and you think, well, hang on to him. Don't let him go. And so that bothers me. But it's a classier look at that than I thought it was going to be. I thought it was going to be just trash that you'd find on lifetime, and it's not. It's a classy way of looking at everything. At number five, I had the standup comedy special, baby j from John Mulaney. And John Mulaney, I mean, I have always liked him. I always thought he's kind of a, ah, smart ass, to use a word. But I would laugh at him, and I thought he was funny. But this year, he really opened a vein and talked about his own life and his addictions and how it was to go to rehab. And it, wasn't like he wanted you to feel sorry for him. He was being very matter of fact about it. And I think being the most honest he's ever been about his own life. I loved it. I'll watch that again. It’s like Bo Burnham had, a special a couple of years ago that was my favorite of all TV shows, but baby j watched it. It's good. And again, I don't know if the kids can be around.

Terry Lipshetz: I'll have to check that one out. I wasn't even thinking of comedy specials, and I didn't catch that one, but I definitely will. So number four for me is one that you like too. You haven't mentioned it yet because it's a hair higher on your list, but it's The Bear.

Bruce Miller: Oh, good.

Terry Lipshetz: On Hulu. That's number four for me. I really struggled with this one because, like, it could be number one. Do I need a two or three? But I settled in on four, and I'll tell you why it stresses me out. That show, to me, a lot of shows, if I love it, I want to watch it and binge it, and I get angry if I can't. It's like, Fargo right now. I can't just go and watch every episode because they make you wait week to week. I needed that with the bear. I needed to watch an episode, and it is so intense and there's so much screaming and there's so much yelling that I would get to the end of the episode and be like, I need to watch something else, because it was literally one of the best things I had just seen on TV all year. But at the same time, I couldn't take any more of it. But I really liked with this season how they gave each character their own moment to shine. I thought it was sweet in a lot of ways. And then the other piece was that Christmas episode. Oh, my goodness.

Bruce Miller: Is that not the best piece of television? And Jamie Lee Curtis, she may have won an Oscar last year for everything, everywhere, all at once, but this is the performance of her life. When she plays that, I mean, you know that mother. You know that mother immediately. And how she just became another thorn, another problem for Carmen to deal with was, like, unbelievable. And you want, you know, we got to get this restaurant open. It's got to happen. Come on. And cousin Richie, how he switched. It was such a remarkable second season for a show. And you're right. It could be number one. It really could. I had a number one last year, and I thought, I can't do two years in a row with the same show. But it's that good. It's number three on my list. Number four on my list is probably your number three. And that's Fargo.

Terry Lipshetz: It's close. We're getting close.

Bruce Miller: Okay, Fargo, we can wait and we'll get to the next ones. Because you had what for three?

Terry Lipshetz: I had The Last of Us at number three, and that was all the way down for number you. Yeah, last of us. I needed a drama like that. Like a Sci-Fi type of drama. It's another one. We've gotten a few surprises from HBO the last few know, we had that one a few years ago, and they always drop these apocalyptic type of programs on you. So it's like, what are we going to expect? Is it going to be okay or isn't it? And I was really surprised with it. I know there is going to be a season two for it. And I'm really looking forward.

Bruce Miller: Not The Last of Us.

Terry Lipshetz: No, it isn't. It's almost the Last of Us, but not quite. So. Yeah, no, I really liked it. I thought it was very well done, considering an adaptation of a video game, but it wasn't like this gory spook fest. It was a lot of emotion and good character development, so I loved it. Three for me.

Bruce Miller: Okay, so then I had the bear at three. At two, I have Jury Duty, and I love Jury Duty. This is that Amazon preview, series where they pretend that everybody is actually doing Jury Duty, except one person thinks it's real. He has no idea that it's a reality show being punked. And James Marsden is one of the, jurors, and he plays this kind of heightened version of himself where he's just full of himself. And you would like that. I think they talk about Sonic in there. And wasn't, he in Sonic the hedgehog? I think he was.

Terry Lipshetz: He might have been, yeah.

Bruce Miller: This guy, Ronald, the real guy, says, yeah, that wasn't a very good movie. Was. You know, it's like, how does he react to this? Because this is being made up as they go along. But jury duty, if you haven't seen it, it's a great one. Now you have two. Probably have Fargo at two.

Terry Lipshetz: I have Fargo at two, yeah. I really love this season. And, I think when we did the Fargo episode a few episodes back, you had mentioned this is, like, the best Fargo since, what, the first. Right, right. And after the last season of Fargo, I wasn't even sure if I wanted to come back to Fargo because I was so disappointed with it this season. It's brilliant. I was telling my wife even the other day, because she's not into Fargo at all, she hated the movie. but I said, I got to show you a little bit of it with Juno Temple, because this is Keeley from Ted Lasso, and it is definitely not Keeley. It's totally different. But, I don't know how this season is going to end. I could see me bumping this up to number one if it maintains and even improves on where it is. I think I'm through the first five episodes.

Bruce Miller: Okay. I watched all of the episodes. I finished it out last night. I had two episodes left. I watched it. It could be number one. It really could be. The ending is so rewarding in many, Know, it’s odd to make this comparison, but this season of Fargo is a lot like Barbie, the movie, where it's a real, if you will, feminist pitch. And it's talking about things that really don't get talked about. Spousal abuse, come on. The political situation in our world, it's a lot of stuff that they unpack and they do it well. But the ending, you will feel a lot of emotion because of the way they wrap things up for certain people. And, it's remarkable. Remarkable. I will easily predict that this is going to be a strong contender for next year's Emmys. And I do think that John Hamm and Juno are largely responsible, and they will be considered best actor and actress for a limited TV movie. That was, that was your number two.

Terry Lipshetz: It was my number two. Number one was Succession. That is, to me, hands down, the best series on TV this year. I know some people don't think it was the best season of succession, and I would agree with it. It wasn't the best season of succession, but it was still the best show on TV for me. Pound for pound, it was still a show that left me wondering what was going to happen, the way character roles played out with who would end up on top. I did feel it was going to get a little predictable at a couple. You know, we had some know that didn't make it all the way from season one all the way to the last episode, and it was a surprise. It was a little bit jarring to watch. I just think it was the best show. It's the best show that HBO has really done in a long time. Granted, they also did the last of us, so two of my top three are from HBO, but in terms of dramas, and you look at things like, the sopranos first, season of Westworld, Deadwood, there's been a lot of really Game of Thrones, a lot of really good dramas the last 2025 years in the history of HBO, and this one is good.

Bruce Miller: Okay. And my number one Beef. Okay, did you watch Beef?

Terry Lipshetz: I did not. No.

Bruce Miller: Okay. This is one that an incident happens. What happens to the people, what goes on, what could have been. It’s from Korea, and it stars Stephen Yoon and Ali Wong, and they're both nominated for Emmys, so you've seen them before. But this is yet another one of those kind of things we're learning from Korean filmmakers is how they did parasite. That gives you kind of point of reference.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: It's one of those very self-contained series that you can go, okay, I get it. That was extremely remarkable, particularly in a year when, broadcasters were looking for other places to find new material. Okay. They found it there. And so that's why I thought, it's something different. It's something new. It's my number one. So there's our list. We had a lot of crossovers, and we don't live next door to each other.

Terry Lipshetz: No. And I think you and I, we certainly had some solid crossovers, maybe in different rankings, different spots, but, yeah, succession, Fargo, the bear, all really good shows. And I think we threw out some ideas for each other, too, to check out some other ones.

Bruce Miller: I'll be shrinking. Just know be shrinking.

Terry Lipshetz: We'll see what check it out. But we are, I guess, not to rub it in, we are at different stages in our life, I guess. So I could see where that one maybe just doesn't strike the same chord for you.

Bruce Miller: I've got to get to shrinking sooner than you would have to get to something else that I'm recommending to you.

Terry Lipshetz: it's the end of the year. It's the end of the season. I mean, check out this episode. Obviously you're listening to it right now, but if you didn't go back and check our previous episode on the top movies from 2023, have a great rest of the year.

Bruce Miller: If you look back, we have some interviews with some of those people from those various shows. I think if you do a deep dive into the podcast, you should be able to find some of those and you'll hear what we heard, when we talk to them.

Terry Lipshetz: Absolutely. All right, well, have a safe and wonderful rest of the year. Happy New Year. And we'll be back again in 2024 with another season of streamed and screen.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

2023 was perhaps the best movie year since the pandemic. There were multiple blockbusters in the theater, with "Barbie" and "The Super Mario Bros. Movie" both topping $1 billion in worldwide ticket sales.

Beside seats in theaters filling up, there were plenty of great movie options both domestic and foreign that will be competing for awards in the coming months. Co-hosts Bruce Miller and Terry Lipshetz talk about their favorite movies of the year, with Miller offering his own Top 10 list.

Bruce Miller's Top 10 films from 2023

Contact us!

We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Terry Lipshetz: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Streamed & Screened, an entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, managing editor of the national newsroom at Lee, and co-host of the program with Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter and someone who has seen way more movies than I have this year. Way more. Why am I here?

Bruce Miller: You're here because I need you. If you're not there, I. I'm just talking into the woods. I'll tell you, I tried to figure out how many movies I see in a year. Now this is just movies. This is not TV show movies or streaming or anything like that. And I figured one year, it was around 300. And so if you multiply that times 40 years, that's a lot of movies. And those are only ones that I would do for work purposes, not ones that I would go back. And wizard of Oz doesn't count in that, because you'd see that more than once. The Godfather. I've seen the Godfather so much, I could do the line, it's a strange year because we didn't know what was going to happen with the strikes. We didn't know if we would get things, if they would hold things, what would happen. And right now, at the end of the year, there is a plethora of, movies that are opening. It's your chance to really get after it. If you haven't looked at movies, now's your time. So, Terry, how about your year? How was your year?

Terry Lipshetz: It's typical as a parent who's got a busy job and lots of kid, you know, we got to the movies. We saw some of the big ones. We saw Mario Brothers, which was a fun movie. Really enjoyed seeing that one. We went to see Barbie. Definitely an Oscar contender. This is not a doll movie, so love that one. We recently saw the Hunger Games prequel. We went to see Indiana Jones. I saw the flash, the family and I. We did see elemental. So we've gotten out, we've seen some movies. We've left the house. 2020 is in the rear view mirror, and we are back to theaters. We already have plans for our, Christmas break to go see Wonka.

Bruce Miller: What guides the choices, do you say? Well, if we're taking the kids, it has to be kid friendly. Or do you say, kids, you're going to an r rated movie? I don't care.

Terry Lipshetz: I don't want to say we're super strict, but we do like to look at. We'll check out, like rotten tomatoes. We'll check out common sense media. And we'll use our own best judgment to try to figure out what to go see. We don't allow them to see r rated movies yet. With the PG 13 movies, we look at them pretty closely. We try to see, okay, why is it pg 13? Is it just a few bad words? Is there nudity? I mean, usually PG 13 doesn't get nudity. You might get a butt in there every once in a while. And that's okay if you see a little. Everyone has a butt. We're all fine with. So that kind of thing is okay. If it gets a little too violent, we try to stay away from it. If it gets a little too sexual, we try to stay away from it. But we try to find movies that are appropriate for the family and we want them to see appropriate material for their age.

Bruce Miller: So the profanity, we hear that at home, we're okay, we're good with that.

Terry Lipshetz: They'll call me out on it. My girls basketball team, I coach 7th grade girls basketball and we were playing a game this weekend and I said the s word audibly during the. Because I thought one of our girls fouled out. So they were, coach, you just said the s word and you got to run a lap now.

Bruce Miller: Oh, good.

Terry Lipshetz: I owe them a lap in practice, probably.

Bruce Miller: You better get on it. That's good. I'm glad they're holding you too. But I always use the line that if you're a writer, you've got to be able to know all the words and how to use them effectively. So that's why I swear I also don't have kids around me. So I'm good.

Terry Lipshetz: You're good.

Which was better? ‘Oppenheimer’ or ‘Barbie’

Bruce Miller: Okay, so we're going to look at the list. Did you do ten?

Terry Lipshetz: I didn't come up because I felt like I didn't see enough of the really good movies. I would say that of all the films that I saw, I would probably rank Oppenheimer just a hair before Barbie. I thought Barbie was a great movie. I thought that it is deserving of any accolade it gets. I would like to somehow see Oppenheimer and Barbie somehow split out awards so their two creative geniuses, because that's what they are, our geniuses, can somehow share without taking away from each other. I don't want to see one of them just like clean sweep and then the other one gets left. So I think there's a way for a best director, best picture, best screenplay. We'll hand out statues to both. But I would just give Oppenheimer like my nudge for best picture. And that's even without yet seeing killers of the flower moon.

Bruce Miller: And those are the two I had a, battle to figure. Is it Oppenheimer or is it killers of the flower moon? I'll tell you, I went back and forth on this because they're both too long, bottom line, too long. But who had justified me sitting longer of the two films? And I thought that the end of Killers of the Flower moon was a little padded. Whereas in Oppenheimer they had a trial. There was a moment there where you go, well, this is a whole new movie. This is something else I'm getting from this. And I thought that was very clever. They deserved their time. And so that gave me the little edge for Oppenheimer. So my number one film of the year is Oppenheimer. Number two is Killers of the Flower moon. You have Barbie as number two. Well, Barbie came in at three on my list.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: Because the thing with Barbie is, I think that she wasn't just toying, pardon the pun, toying with the concept of a doll and what it has meant over the years. It really was a tale about, now, don't be badmouthing young girls who are playing with barbies, because that's always been the narrative behind Barbie is that, oh, it's like some stupid doll. Know, is, perhaps a little more zoptic than you would give a girl. And that she was kind of dim and there were a lot of things there to unpack and she unpacked all of them. Greta Gerwig, looked at all those kind of angles about Barbie and still came away with the idea that here is a doll that is giving us hope that girls can do everything and that there are stumbling blocks in the road, but you have to figure out how to deal with them. it isn't just riding in your Malibu car with Ken by your side. And Ken was another whole thing. Know, Ken has been an accessory for the most part all these years. He's also in the picture. But Ken had his own little feelings as well. And you go, I kind of feel sorry for Ken. I really felt sorry for Alan. But this is a movie that gives you more than you're expecting. I think it is a great way to look at those kind of characters, especially when you're an adult. When you're a kid, it doesn't know. Barbie is just that character with too many clothes and she loses her shoes all the time. But as an adult, you realize that this was an impressionable character on young minds. And so I think the movie did a great job of bringing that to light.

‘Anatomy of a Fall’ is a courtroom drama to watch

In my number fourth spot, I have anatomy of a fall. And this is something that you probably haven't seen around much because it's a foreign language film, both in French and German and English. It's about an accident, or what you think is an accident. A young boy, he's about eleven, is blind, and he's walking his dog outside. And when he comes home, they realize that the dad is on the ground and dead. And what is behind this? Did he fall out of the window? Did his wife push him out the window? What is the story behind all this? It's a fascinating courtroom drama that lets you figure out, where do you sit? I happened to talk with Sandra Huller, who's the star of this. She plays the woman who's on trial for this, the mother wife. And she said, I don't go into this taking sides and saying that she's guilty or she's innocent of anything. I just want to play the emotions because it does, it shifts throughout the whole film. And it is a, fascinating look at a case where when you come to the end of it, you will debate with others what was the true story there? And it all comes down to the end where the young boy gets to testify, on the stand, and he talks about what he believes. It won the Cannes Film festival, palm door, award. And you can see why it's lasted. I mean, we're just getting it now. But if you get a chance to see this, please do look at it. Anatomy of a fall.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: Number five spot. I don't know if you saw this one or not, but the holdovers, I love the holdovers.

Terry Lipshetz: It's on my list to see. And it's one that might, because it's rated r, so it's not one we.

Bruce Miller: Were going to go take.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay. But yeah, my wife and I have talked about it, wanting to go see it, and maybe we'll be able to do that over the break when my kids go spend some time with my mom for a little bit.

Bruce Miller: We're storing you kids. Don't be like the von Eric brothers in the iron claw. Please do not force them into things. But, yeah, I think it was a fascinating look at how we create families. And families can come from the least likely places. It’s a prep school in the 1970s where some people have to stay back because either their parents don't bring them home for the holidays. In colleges, there are a lot of international students who don't get to go home for the holidays because it's just too expensive. But this turns out there's one student who's stuck at this school with the teacher he really hates, who's kind of the designated watcher for any of these students, and then the cook, and they all have their own little issues. They all have their own little story, and they come together, and they become the greatest of friends. It's remarkable. Paul Giamatti, divine Joy Randolph, and Dominic Cessa, a newcomer who plays a student, and he's just marvelous in this. Directed by Alexander Payne. It's a film you should see. So that was at number five. At number six, I have poor things, and this is probably one you haven't seen yet, either, with Emma Stone as she's like a Frankenstein's monster. Willem Dafoe has done a surgery on her, and I don't want to tell you too much about that, but he has created this woman who is just learning life all over again. So she's very halting and stupid, and every year or every day, she learns, like, 100 words. I'm now paraphrasing because I don't have my notes on this. And so she becomes very educated about everything, about life, about people, about relationships, and she wants to approach it all on her own terms. And so when she gets to be older, there's talk of marriage, there's talk of other things, and it's just wild, wild, wild. It's black and white. Sometimes it's color, sometimes. Willem Dafoe is just unbelievable. I think he's great in this. Emma Stone is wonderful. And here's one you can't take the girls to because there is nudity. Just know that it's more adult than you'd ever thought it would be. But it's very creative, and I think that's what lands it on the list, because it is just so fascinatingly interesting.

The story of Leonard Bernstein is available on Netflix

Okay, so that's number six. Number seven, maestro. Again, this is one that's just now, getting the streaming services that's on Netflix. And it's the story of Leonard Bernstein, if you happen to remember him, if you're old enough like I am, to have seen him do those children's educational things about the symphony and the orchestra and all that, you know, the name. And he was one of the biggest conductors in the world, a composer. He wrote a number of huge musicals, but there was kind of a different man behind the scenes. And this looks at his relationship with his wife, Felicia. There's a lot there to unpack because she was that very supportive woman. But he also was a philandering husband, and he had relationships with men that, of course, they wouldn't say anything about back in the. So it was kind of a hidden life that he was leading. Bradley Cooper directed this, wrote this. I mean, he stars in it. He's everything about this. It's his showpiece, I think, really. It gives him a chance to show what he's able to do. He sounds like him, he looks like him. But it's not a chronological look at his life. It's like snippets. It's little things that give you a picture of what he's really all about. Harry Mulligan plays his wife, Felicia, and she is incredible, too. So this is one. It's on Netflix. You can watch it, see it. It's something that's really fascinating because it's more than just a, screen biography.

Terry Lipshetz: I saw it pop up in my recommended recently, and I did add it to my list. So it is absolutely on my list of films to watch.

‘Super Mario Bros.’ one of the fun movies to watch from 2023

Bruce Miller: Okay, now, before I get to numbers eight, nine, and ten, what else is.

Terry Lipshetz: On your list from the standpoint of did I like it, did I see it and enjoy it? I was really impressed with Super Mario Brothers. It's not going to make anybody's top ten list. And it's one of those which my daughter wanted to go see it. I guess I'll go take you to a movies. And I sat there and I enjoyed it. And it was actually fun to watch. And it was worth it, being, a billion dollar worldwide film. And it was one of those films that I think got butts back into the theater, which it's been a long time since that's happened. So that movie I really enjoyed. I also thought that the prequel for the Hunger Games was a lot better than I expected. I had very low expectations on that film. Very low. I didn't mind the first of the trilogy. The second two after that were kind of, Do I really.

Bruce Miller: But with this, do you know the characters? Are they like, young people, and then they grow up to become people in what we consider the classic Hunger games?

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah, President Snow, he's the Donald Sutherland character from the movies. It's his younger self, and you kind of see how he turned into. Exactly. So from that standpoint, I think it was a real interesting thing to watch. I never read the books. I was never that interested. It was just one of those where, yeah, I'll go see it. It sounds like fun watching kids murder each other. Sure. Why not.

Bruce Miller: Isn't that how it should be?

Terry Lipshetz: Exactly.

Bruce Miller: Shouldn't we just put the kids out there and make them just survive?

Terry Lipshetz: That's it, right.

Bruce Miller: Otherwise called winter, break. And you've got to try and figure out what to do with them because they'll drive you crazy.

Terry Lipshetz: Exactly.

‘American Fiction’ another great performance from Jeffrey Wright

Bruce Miller: Okay. On my list, number eight, American Fiction. This is another new one that you'll see in theaters now. Cord Jefferson wrote this based on other material, but it's about a black author who is just incensed by the idea. Know, there are these people doing these ghetto like kind of books, plays, whatever, and they didn't live the life, but they see that it sells because there's a white audience out there that wants to read these kinds of things. And so he wonders, well, what if I wrote one of those? So he writes it under a pseudonym. As a result, he gets a lot of attention, has people looking for him to do interviews. And he's trying to stand the download because he doesn't want people to know that, wait a minute, I don't want this on my record, that I wrote this book because I think this book is trash. But yet he's still making money from it. So what's the balance? Know, Jeffrey Wright stars in the film and he's wonderful. I think it's one that we're going to see in the Oscar race. I really do, because it's so very interesting how they approach this subject, particularly now when people talk about being woke and all those kind of catchphrases they throw out there, but it attacks it head on and is willing to make, some choices. And I thought it was fascinating.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. And Jeffrey Wright, I love Jeffrey Wright. He was in some of the more recent James Bond movies as, Felix Leiter, the CIA agent. And he also was in, the HBO series Westworld. And I thought those two roles, very difficult, challenging roles in their own way, and he nails those characters. So I am really looking forward to seeing American Fiction.

Bruce Miller: He's been around forever, Broadway. He's done a lot of Broadway shows. I think he just had one last year. Now he's probably getting his big moment.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. He's somebody that you've seen him before in so many different things, mostly in supporting roles. I think that's where Westworld really let him shine, because even though that was an ensemble cast, he was a primary character in there.

Bruce Miller: Yeah, he is another one of those ones that can always get work because he can play so many different roles and so many different. I love him. I think he's really good. And he makes this film very unpredictable. Very unpredictable. You will not guess the ending of this film. I will wage your money on that one.

‘Air’ tells the story of how Nike landed Michael Jordan

Okay, number nine. Now, this is one that you should have seen and you didn't.

Terry Lipshetz: It's been available through prime video forever. And I keep on going. It's in my list. I'm going to go watch it tonight. And then I fall asleep.

Bruce Miller: You probably are wearing Nike tennis shoes. And then you can't even go see the movie. That's terrible.

It's air in number nine. Air. And this is the story of how they did the deal for Michael Jordan's shoeline and what kind of maneuvering was done by the people at Nike and what they had to do to try and get him to buy into them. Now, what we don't realize in retrospect is that Nike was not a player back in the know. They wanted converse or they wanted Adidas, but they didn't want Nike. Nike was considered third. And so it becomes this kind of salesman's pitch to the Jordan family that you need to go with us. This is going to be something. And this is way before Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan. He was a college standout, but he wasn't Michael Jordan. Capitalized, bold faced, underlined all that. You see what they have to do, how they sell it, and, you see people that you recognize, but Michael Jordan's barely in the film. If he's in it, I bet it's ten minutes at best. And the character is always shown from the back of the head or the side. You don't see him doing anything except in footage where they show Michael Jordan actually playing basketball. And you go, oh, they did. And that logo that they use where he's jumping in the air, you see that? Where they got the inspiration. What's fun is seeing how his mother was such a good influence in this old thing. And she talks about, it's just a shoe until you put my son's foot in it. Then you see the guy who made the shoes and what a character. He just. It's fascinating. And my favorite one of all is the agent played by Chris Messina, who, again, you can't let the kids watch this because every other word starts with an f. But it is just fascinating to watch this. And, Matt Damon gets the speech of the year when he tells his story to the family of why they should go with. It's just, it's remarkable. You cheer because it's such a good, Look at all that.

Terry Lipshetz: Well, now I got to go watch it this weekend.

Bruce Miller: So, what do I have to do? I am pulling you movie by movie through the year, and then you won't go see these things. I want you to go to that.

Terry Lipshetz: Have you seen my family calendar, Bruce? Have I shared that with you?

Bruce Miller: Look, when you said you're coaching, that alone tells you. Right? Oh, this guy ain't the movies.

Terry Lipshetz: I'm not going to the movies. Nope. Right. Exactly. Right. Well, what's closing out your list?

Bruce Miller: It's called past lives. It's an Asian film that really. Oh, I don't want to spill it. They were friends when they were children, and then they reconnect later in life, and they wonder what their lives might have been like had they been together all along. And it's heartbreaking in parts, heartwarming in other parts, but it's, Greta Lee Tao, you are the actors. It's directed by Celine Song, and it's marvelous. It probably will be one of the ones that will be considered for best international film, but we have a lot of those in the category this year. And normally I don't put foreign films on my ten best list because we don't get a chance to see them all the time. Thanks to streaming, we're getting more of those films out there. And I think you'll find, too, that they have great stories to tell. It's just sometimes I have to do a lot of reading to be able to get to the story.

Terry Lipshetz: Sure. Wow.

Bruce Miller: So that's a top ten list. Oppenheimer, number one.

Terry Lipshetz: Can't go wrong with Oppenheimer.

Bruce Miller: Killers of the flower moon. Number two. Barbie. Number three. Anatomy of a fall. Number four. The holdovers. Number five. Four things. Number six, maestro. Number seven. American fiction, number eight. Air number nine. And past lives. Number ten.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay, well, that is a list for those of you out there that are like me. Haven't gotten to enough movies this year. A lot to watch during the next couple of weeks as we close things out and then march further towards Oscar season. So we're going to wrap this episode next week. We're going to do our top ten TV shows.

Bruce Miller: And that's even more difficult because there's so much tv.

Terry Lipshetz: I promise you, Bruce, I will have more to offer in the next episode than what I brought to the table today.

Bruce Miller: So we're going to throw you in. you're going to be playing in this one. I will be on the bench.

Terry Lipshetz: So I have a lot of time. I can squeeze in a 30 minutes, 45 minutes show at the end of the night. No problem. So I have a lot to offer. So we'll be back again next week with another episode of streamed and screened.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

'Tis the season ... awards season, that is!

The Golden Globes nominations are out, kicking off the entertainment awards season that will culminate with the Academy Awards. "Barbie" edged out "Oppenheimer" for the most nominations (you can get the full list here) and we break down some of the top nominees.

Actor David Rysdahl played a part in two of this year's nominees, first as Donald Hornig, a chemist at Los Alamos, in the movie "Oppenheimer," and now as Wayne Lyon in the current season of "Fargo." He will also appear in the upcoming "Alien" series that is being led by Fargo showrunner Noah Hawley. Rysdahl talks about those roles in an interview with co-host Bruce Miller.

Be sure to tune in for the final two episodes of the year that look back at the top movies and tv shows of 2023.

Where to watch

Contact us!

We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Terry Lipshetz: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Streamed and Screened and entertainment podcast about movies and tv from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, managing editor of the national newsroom at Lee and co-host of the program of Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and longtime entertainment reporter. Bruce ’tis the season. The season is here. Award season.

Bruce Miller: It's award season. Never mind the holidays. I think that's a better holiday to celebrate. Great, right? Because you don't have to buy gifts and you just get, the only thing.

Terry Lipshetz: You might be buying are subscriptions, subscriptions to streaming services and ways, to watch if you've missed anything, like I have.

Bruce Miller: YouTube can be a critic. All you need to do is have all the services so you can see everything. You can walk in my shoes for a day or two. I'll tell you, I have been watching movies around the clock, I kid you not. And I've been seeing a lot of things this week. We came out with the Golden Globe nominations and those were kind of underground for a while. They know.

Terry Lipshetz: I was like, I don't think.

Bruce Miller: We’re going to give them any attention this year because they've had some kind of organizational problems, but it's going to be on CBS and Paramount plus. So I think they have a profile. And even some of the nominees said, well, I don't know how to react to this. So there you are. But it is a great bellwether for the Oscars because they hit just about all of the films that would likely be nominated for something. You'll still see some stray ones, but I think, for the most part, the big names are in there.

Terry Lipshetz: Well, and going back to some of the episodes we did this past summer, particularly around Barbenheimer, which know, the big moment of the time we talked about know Barbie is a movie you have to take seriously. This isn't some kid movie about the doll. And we predicted that Barbie could be a big showing at Oscar season.

Bruce Miller: It led everything here and it's dominating the music categories. I think it has three nominations in the Golden Globes for best song. Now that says something. Did you think it was a musical? I didn't think it was a musical necessarily, but I wouldn't doubt that the best song Oscar winner would come from Barbie.

Terry Lipshetz: Best original song. Six nominees, three of them are from Barbie. I'm not great at math, but three out of six seems like a pretty good odd to, win something.

Bruce Miller: And I think in the Oscars they're limited to two nominees.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: They used to have it, but I think they've changed the rules now so that two out of the five could be from one movie.

Terry Lipshetz: Even going back to some of the acting aspects and the directorial we had talked about, this could be an opportunity for Ryan Gosling. And sure enough, he's nominated.

Bruce Miller: Margot Rock was in there, Greta Gerwig.

Terry Lipshetz: For best director, best screenplay. I mean, it's what you kind of expected, which is a movie to be taken seriously.

Bruce Miller: Oppenheimer. It is interesting to see how it all is going to shift down. I think fillers of the Flower Moon is another big consideration. So those are probably the big three that will get attention at the Oscars and all the other ones. Now we'll be seeing a lot of those critics’ awards. We’ve already had the New York film critics, but I think as you see those kind of spill out, you'll see these same names repeat, and then we'll see where kind of the strongest contenders.

Terry Lipshetz: I think, you know, we talked about this with Oppenheimer because Matt Damon did not get a nomination in this. Correct.

Bruce Miller: For that. And he did for air. Right?

Terry Lipshetz: He did for air. And I think we talked a little bit about that months ago. But Robert Downey Jr. And I think he predicted that would be the one that would get the nomination for a supporting role in Oppenheimer. And that's exactly what happened.

Bruce Miller: And without any other competition, that helps. It's when you have two from one movie that it, eh, I don't know if we can pull this out because you're competing against somebody in your own film. And I think there are a couple of those in the Golden Globe competition.

Terry Lipshetz: Was there any big surprises for you in the Golden Globes, either on the movie side or on the tv side?

Bruce Miller: No. They all said, oh, they were snubbed. Not necessarily. Some of these people deserve not to get a nomination, but they think they should get a nomination. I think it pretty much is as expected. The interesting thing is, are, the foreign films that got into the best picture. Normally if you get one in that category, that's usually enough, but this year I think we have two or three of them. So that's an interesting, development. And, it is more international. There are a lot of first timers, too. Two women in the directing category. That's an interesting thing. So who knows where it's going to lead? And award season is such an unpredictable time. You can start award season by saying, absolutely, Robert Downey Jr. Is going to win. And then by the time the Oscars are given out, he's not a player even snubbed in the nomination, so it ebbs and flows as the time goes.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah, I think what was interesting, for me, at least, I wasn't surprised. For instance, Succession got nominated for a best drama. I mean, I pretty much expected that would get it. And The Crown is usually up. There is one to be considered. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised, but to a degree I am. To see The Last of Us nominated in that best drama because it is science fiction, but it's also something that's based off of a video game. And I think that one, it was so long ago, you almost forget that it premiered in 2023 because it came out, I think, the first week in January.

Bruce Miller: Right.

Terry Lipshetz: That was one where I remember seeing the previews for it and thinking, well, it's on HBO, I'll probably give it a chance. It looks kind of interesting. It seems like something I might want to watch. And by the time I got to the end of the series, I'm thinking, wow, this is one of the best things I've seen, in a long time. It was kind of nice. But I think if you asked me twelve months ago, do you think The Last of Us would end up being nominated in the drama? I probably wouldn't believe it.

Bruce Miller: Well, and there are different years, too. One goes calendar year, one goes, season year. And that kind of throws you off, like, well, what year was this? Is this part of this year? Was this the year that white Lotus was involved? It's hard to figure it all out. One of the things people have been mentioning is that may December is listed in the musical comedy, and that's a drama that shouldn't have been in there. But they probably figured they needed one more to fill that it didn't quite make the cut for drama. But there is no color purple in the musical comedy category for best picture. So that says something about that film's chances. It might not be the strong contender that people think.

Terry Lipshetz: There's another show that was nominated. It has three nominations for a limited or anthology series, and then also a couple, in the acting categories. But that's Fargo, and that's a show that just debuted a few weeks ago, and I've been sucked into it. It is so good. You set me up so well on that one where you told me it's like the best Fargo since at least maybe the first Fargo. It is so good. It is so, so good. I'm angry now because that first week, they gave us two episodes. I want two every single week. And I get to the end of it, it's like, I got to wait a week. I have to wait one more, so. Good.

Bruce Miller: Well, today I have a little surprise for you, because I know you'd like this.

Terry Lipshetz: I love surprises.

Bruce Miller: I was able to talk with David Rysdahl, and he plays Wayne Lyons. That's Juno Temple's husband in the show, who seems like just the nicest dad, the most beleaguered person. And his mother is that evil, mean kind of woman who controls everything in this part of the midwest. And he's also, if you didn't know, a part of Oppenheimer. So he has double duty here this time. and he talks about both of those jobs. But the more interesting factor of it is that he wasn't really planning to be an actor. He liked acting, but he was geared toward becoming a chemist, which fits in right well with Oppenheimer. And then he has this Midwestern background. He's from Minnesota. How that fits into Fargo. So the stars are aligning for him. And I want you to meet him because he is such a fascinating young actor. He's married to Zazie Beetz, and she was in Atlanta, if you happen to watch that series. They're both so busy now. And he also has a starring role in the next Noah Hawley's series, which is alien. And they'll start filming that after the first of the year. This is one, It's kind of like we're predicting something big is going to happen from this.

Bruce Miller: Hey, bud. How are you?

David Rysdahl: I'm good. How are you?

Bruce Miller: Well, I'm bowled over by your performance. I really am.

Bruce Miller: And I'm not trying to grease you.

Bruce Miller: Or anything, but you capture the essence of Fargo better than anybody I've seen.

Bruce Miller: In five seasons of this series.

Bruce Miller: It has to do with the fact that you're from Minnesota. But is there something else that you tapped into?

David Rysdahl: I, definitely tapped into my dad and to my uncle, I think there is that sense of being from a place that's hard to authenticate. So the fact that you feel that way means a lot to me.

Bruce Miller: did you ever think that you would be playing somebody that you knew.

David Rysdahl: So well in so many of your life? You're trying to outrun your parents, and then the reality is that you're going to go play them? I think there's a beautiful irony to it, a universal irony. But when I first got the audition, I told my dad, dad, I'm finally accepting the fact that I am you in a different way. And he loves it. He's like, oh, Dave, you're playing. He's having the time of his life. He's having the most fun of all of us with it, which is great.

Bruce Miller: Were you kind of the one everybody would go to like, am I doing it right? Am I getting the acts? I bet Juno was constantly asking you about it.

David Rysdahl: Oh, yeah. Rich, Juno, everyone kind of came, and I felt responsibility as a Minnesota. I'm like, I got to get these right? So I actually asked a few. I asked friends from all over the state. I'm from New Walmart, which is a more german influence, so it's a little different than the Fargo, right? But my dad's from. He's norwegian and swedish ancestry from, the middle of the state. And that's where his accent is. Like, it's really Fargo y. And my grandpa had that same. But I wanted to give them a variety. So I had some friends and relatives record just saying how their weekend was. And we got on the scandia, Facebook page and listened to real people there and just tried to make it as authentic as possible.

Bruce Miller: Oh, yeah, you really went there, didn't my dad?

David Rysdahl: We go home, and my dad, he gave a genuine uff da. And I was like, yeah, see, no, people don't even realize he's like, uff da. And I'm like, we have it on our, coffee mugs. And it's always funny when some of my friends, especially in the Minneapolis area, they're like, we don't talk like that.

Bruce Miller: When the movie came out, were you offended by it?

David Rysdahl: I wasn't. I thought it was a celebration of Minnesota culture. And Marge Gunderson is, like, a really good person. She's like my aunt. She felt like. Like, I have aunts that speak like that. Who. The idea of what you owe your neighbor, our next door neighbor always blows out our whole yard. We give him a tearing. My mom makes these little coffee cakes, brings them over, and he'll always be over here. He’s got this big truck blows out our driveway. My grandpa, he is a volunteer snow remover old guy for 40 years in Clarkfield, Minnesota. So I really thought it was these two filmmakers are talking about this state that they grew up in, the Coens. And I felt like they was celebrating us. Some people, I think, think that it's making fun of it, but I really didn't feel that way. And then being a part of it, it was really important for me that Wayne wasn't a joke, because he's one of the only decent men in this whole season. And I'm like, hey, there have to be some decent men. And I'm from Minnesota. I don't want Minnesotans to come off as like, oh, they're just silly or kind of. There's something genuine there. That's my experience with Minnesota and the Midwest in general.

Bruce Miller: He's a good father, too. That I think is extremely important, and, it resonates. Well, how did you hear about it? Did you get a call? And they just, Mike, you might be good for this or what?

David Rysdahl: No, it was an old fashioned audition. It was a self tape. came through. We had two scenes. We did the scene, oh, I just want to play floor hockey. My sots with Scotty scene, and then the, oh, you want to take a tumble scene. Those are the two scenes I got to do. And my wife is an actor also, so I got to do them both with her. And then we send them in. They had a few notes. I do it again. And then Noah's like, he wanted a zoom with me, so I did a zoom. My wife was on a black mirror episode in Spain, so I was over there, jumped on a zoom with Noah, and then you don't hear back for a couple of weeks. We were in Berlin. She's half German. I get a call at 11:00 at night from my agents because it's like la time, right? And they're like, you got it. And then we went out dancing until, like, three a. m. It was pretty amazing, but it was a normal casting experience. I think it definitely helped that I just felt like I knew him. Sometimes as an actor, you're like, oh, is this person inside of me? Can I portray him? And I'm like, and Wayne, instantly, I was like, oh, I know him. I know this man. And therefore, it's going to be really fun to audition for it. I don't know if I'll get it, but I definitely know my way into this character.

Bruce Miller: It's an easier one to audition for than it would be Oppenheimer, for God's sakes.

Bruce Miller: How does that come about?

David Rysdahl: Oh, yeah, that one was hard because they gave you dummy sides because you have no idea what the script is. They don't want to give it to anybody. It was literally, you're a professor of physics lecturing to a group of students, and it's like two monologues full of science jargon. One thing about me is I was a chemistry major at St. Olive College. I knew some of the science and allowed me to be like, all right, I know what this stuff is. It's not just words to me. I can make it real. And also, I loved my science professors, so I was channeling them. I channeled my dad in Fargo. I channeled this fun science professor I had, the organic chemist professor I had at St. Olive College for the Oppenheimer. But it was a very different experience because there were dummy sides. You had no idea what the relationship was. They want to make sure that you could do the scientific talk without it feeling like you're an actor.

Bruce Miller: So what was that like, though, being part of such a huge film? This.

David Rysdahl: so we shot at Los Alamos, and I got there, and I was at a holiday inn, and I couldn't sleep the whole night because I was like, and then you get there the first day, and the first person I met, I got into this van to go to set, and it was, And, and he was like, hi there. Welcome. I'm Killian. And it was just like a normal wasn't. And I was like, oh, yeah, I know. and then we just chatted on the way to set, and he was so down to earth and inviting, and I was like, oh, this is going to be a fun experience. He's my leader in the scene as Killian, but he's also a leader as Oppenheimer. So all those feelings I was having of kind of looking up to him, emulating him as an actor, I could just put into the role. And I think we all felt that all the scientists, he was such a great leader as the lead on the film, and that's exactly what was happening to the scientists. So we could just put everything that was happening in, this meta way into the character.

Bruce Miller: Did you have to do a lot of research on him, though? Or did you say, that's not going to read.

David Rysdahl: I read the book that it was all based on. We all read the book that it's based on. Nolan wanted us all to read that, and we all read that. And then we also, growing up a chemistry major, I knew a lot of that history already, and it was the breakthrough of thought that was happening at that time. Not only we're starting to realize that we can. I mean, philosophy was changing because at that moment in life and at that turn of the century, and I think we're also there right now with AI. And to have those same conversations now that are mirroring the same conversations we had about this thing that's man made, that's harnessing intelligence or harnessing the power of the atom, and we shooting it during, at the beginning of the Russian invasion, there was a lot of things happening in the world that charged that set. So not only was the research that we were doing in the books, but it was also what was happening in the world. Felt like we were replaying a moment in history that was being recycled in our everyday lives.

Bruce Miller: And we'll never be the same again.

Bruce Miller: Yeah.

Bruce Miller: But then how do we go from being a chemistry major to being an actor? That seems like a leap.

David Rysdahl: Yeah. No one from where I'm from is an actor. Right. The idea of being a professional actor was so far outside of my realm of possibilities that I kept it a secret to myself. I acted all through high school. And, I grew up. I was homeschooled, actually, until 7th grade. So I did a lot with, in my home school group, whatever. And then I went to college and I was a chemistry major because I love science. Every elective I could have that was free was an acting course or a writing course. And then I auditioned for the plays and I got into the plays at St. Olive. And then my senior year, I could do apprenticeship at great River Shakespeare Festival. I got into that. I also got an internship at a lab. And it was a very pivotal moment in my life. I was a senior, it was in April. And I was like, I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it. I'm going to go do this great river Shakespeare festival in Winona. I played Laertes in the apprentice program of Hamlet. And I had the time of my life. You got to be around those professional artists, these actors, and life can be like this. You can do this for a living. And one of them was from New York, her apartment in Astoria, Queens. She was going to be gone for a tour. And she was like, well, you can come and live for a month with my roommate. And I was do a sublet. And so I went home and I painted. Told my parents, I'm a tried and living. I'm about to New York. I became a huge Dylan fan at that time, too. And I was like, Bob Dylan came from Minnesota. I went to New York City. Let me just try this out for a year. I painted houses to get $3,000, got a job at this standard hotel. And I used my chemistry major to tutor kids. I tutored a lot of high school kids and did a lot of short films. Spent, my first three years in New York every year. I just felt more in love with it. And it was hard. I was broke the whole time but I was also getting better. And around all these young artists I lived with ten people in Bushwick, Brooklyn. We had three bathrooms and it was like one of these crazy places and one was a musician and a cartoonist. And if nothing else comes from this I get to have had this amazing experience of living in New York and making little short films every weekend. And I remember thinking don't try to look ahead too much. Just look at what's happening right now and appreciate what's happening right now. And if something else comes it comes. And that really saved me. During the dark times when you're confused about what you're doing and you're feeling kind of lost you just kind of like ground yourself in your friends and the art that you're making even if it's at a level that's like a short film. I made like 50 short films in.

Bruce Miller: My twenty s. The thing is though.

Bruce Miller: You come from a place like I do where they say well that's no career, you've got to have something to fall back on.

Bruce Miller: Right.

Bruce Miller: And how do you deal with that?

David Rysdahl: It was hard as a chemistry major. All my friends were now something many doctors and I did a lot of thought of like well what kind of life do I want to have and who am I trying to impress? Am I trying to impress my uncle who I love to live his life? As long as I feel like it's the life that I'm living and I'm being good to people I'm going to be good to myself, I'm paying my rent. Then who cares? And that choice I think in life everyone has those moments in life. Sometimes people decide to live somebody else's life. But I remember this great Charles Bukowski poem that is about this guy. He talks about he falls in love with a waitress and his family kind of poo poo's it. And then he goes and marries somebody else and is unhappy his whole life and he's in his seventy s and he's divorced and lonely and he's like I should have married. Her name was like Marianne or something and his brother is like well why didn't you? And the idea of like nobody really as if somebody else was living your life or telling you how to live your life and I think that's a choice you have to make is I just kept enjoying it and I was feeling fulfilled by it. Was meeting great people and my soul kept on being fulfilled and that's what ended up being the more important thing than what people thought of it.

Bruce Miller: I am not in a rich profession. Every day is different. Every day is interesting. Every day is fun. And I think it's much more important to have those kind of rewards than to be somebody who's just kind of bitter, disgruntled, and maybe makes a lot of money.

David Rysdahl: Amen.

Bruce Miller: now you prove me wrong and you become very rich and famous, and then you'll have all of it, the best of all worlds.

David Rysdahl: Like, I've met people now who are rich and famous. And I can tell you, I feel like we were having more fun broke in our 20s than I did all these short films. A lot of these actors are in their eighty s and we're doing films for no money. And he loved. We were having so much fun. And now I think about being on these big sets, we're doing the exact same thing. This is the same part of the soul it's coming from. You have a little more resources. If you're trying to do this work to become famous, it will eat you alive. But if you love it, if you love the storytelling aspect of the acting, then it doesn't really matter what level you're doing. You get to work with people who maybe just have more resources and are really talented. You get to work with Noah, Holly and Christopher Nolan. And it blows your mind, but your happiness is not contingent on that need.

Bruce Miller: But you still get to work with Noah. You're going to be in his next know.

David Rysdahl: I know.

Bruce Miller: But then you were really good, at the Fargo set. Could I get you coffee? Is there anything more I can do?

David Rysdahl: Yeah, you got to ask Noah that. I think he sent me an email after the final day and was like, hey, there's something maybe in alien for you. And I was like, I'm there. And then he called me about a month later and told me about this other guy that you will soon meet.

Bruce Miller: You haven't started yet though, right?

David Rysdahl: No, we start in February.

Bruce Miller: So how did you and your wife juggle this? Because you're both working, you're both busy. Is it like one for you, one for me, or, we'll see you on the weekends or when we can get together or.

David Rysdahl: What a great question. She was already working a lot, been together for ten years, and I was doing all these shorts and indies, and suddenly she was gone a lot on bigger projects. And I realized that if we get successful with this, both of us, this is going to be our life. And we had to have a real come to Jesus about that. Are we happy? Are we fulfilled? I mean, it's similar to me, the choice to stay in New York and pursue this thing, it's like you have to ask, know yourself well enough. Like, is this going to fulfill me? Is this going to fill? Like, that's the question every couple, I think has. But now we just enjoy when we're apart, and then when we're together, we're really together. We spend a lot of time together when we're together. And that's what a beauty about being an actor. You also have these moments, like a month where you're both not working. You get to really invest in each other in those moments and then find romantic ways while you're both away shooting to stay and connected. We'll watch movies together over zoom, or have a zoom date, or making sure that during the shoot we'll spend a weekend together and nobody else is invited, just like us being very intentional about our time together. and then also always checking in, like, how are you feeling? Are you feeling good? All right. Creating those avenues of real communication.

Bruce Miller: You've got a book in this. You should write this down somewhere, because you know how often you see that people are jealous because they're somehow too busy doing this or whatever, and it's just like, oh, come on, you knew what you're getting into. You know what the demands are. Don't be that way.

David Rysdahl: I think stories are interesting when the character gets what they want and then what happens? I think that happens a lot in life. Like, we have this idea of what will fulfill us, and then you get it and then what? Think so? I think for us, it's like, well, we have this life now that we can live. Is it fulfilling to us? Do we want to keep living it? Or if we don't, then let's go to something else.

Bruce Miller: What lesson do we learn from Fargo?

David Rysdahl: For me, Fargo is all a morality tale, like a fable about the good and the not so good of life. And this season is really about the past trauma, the past debts you can't outrun, right? It's going to catch you, and you're going to have to deal with that. And as a society, I think we're also asking that we all have debt. We have past trauma as a nation, as a society that is being brought up, and we're going to have to sit with it and deal with it before we can actually move forward. For Wayne's character, he can't avoid anymore. There's a lot of avoidance at the beginning of the season, and I think he has to sit in it and go through it together with his.

Bruce Miller: Oh, that's great. Was it too cold for you in Canada?

David Rysdahl: I bet you, know, I was used to that. And what's nice about Calgary, I don't know if you know that, but they have these warm spells that come up the mountain range. But Minnesota, we didn't have that. It's just know it's blistering the Great Plains, so we actually had a few. In Calgary, it'd be freezing, but then you'd have, like, a week of warmth coming from the know.

Bruce Miller: I always say that because we're from the Midwest, we're going to live longer than everybody else because we've been frozen half our lives. And it's like cryogenics, but it's just.

David Rysdahl: A good Minnesota way to look at it.

Bruce Miller: David, thank you so much. And like I say, and I'm not lying to you, I really warm to your character in this series, and I love this version because I think it has stuff that we can latch on to. I think when they go too far back, it's very difficult to kind of relate to it. But this one is a real test of our strength. But your character, he caught it. He knows exactly what he's doing.

David Rysdahl: thank you so much, Bruce. I really appreciate it.

Bruce Miller: When we see you for alien, just know I'll, be the one. Oh, good. Maybe then we'll be in person. We'll see what happens.

David Rysdahl: Oh, I would love that. That'd be great.

Bruce Miller: Hey, thanks so much and have a great holiday season.

Terry Lipshetz: All right, Bruce, thanks for that. Real fascinating. Real interesting. Know, it's kind of interesting because obviously he's from the Midwest, so he does sound like he's from the Midwest, but he sounds like he's a little bit in character, but he's also out of character, too, if that makes.

Bruce Miller: Right. Right. Well, he knows better and. Hey, where'd he go? He would talk to his dad. His dad was his guidepost there. But there's your second episode of Fargo this week. I'm sorry I can't do better, but there's your chance now, next week, you've got some homework to do before we get to next week, because I want to do the top ten movies of 2023. So I think you have some that you've got to see. I've seen everything that could possibly be a contender. I have even a couple of independent films that I don't even know if they're on anybody's list, but, I want to go through the list of the top ten movies of 2023, and then the following week, we'll do the top ten tv shows of 2023. But that's a calendar year, so make sure you look from January to the end of December.

Terry Lipshetz: Looking forward to that. As we slowly wind down this year.

Bruce Miller: Hopefully people who listen will send in their list so we can see what you have to say about your favorite films and tv shows. Absolutely.

Terry Lipshetz: You can do that through [email protected]. Send us your thoughts and we'll be happy to share them in a future episode. And for that, Bruce, thanks again for this episode, and we will see you again next week with another episode of streamed and screened.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The year is winding down and Hollywood is still not completely recovered from the writers and actors strikes, but there are still a lot of new options coming to the small screen.

From science fiction to documentaries, co-host Bruce Miller offers his recommendations on what to watch. Plus, he has a special holiday treat in the form of an interview with Bill Pullman, who portrays Alex Murdaugh in the new Lifetime movie "Murdaugh Murders: The Movie."

Pullman, best known as Lone Starr in "Spaceballs" and considered one of  the greatest film presidents of all time as President Whitmore in "Independence Day," talks about how he took on his latest challenge.

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About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Terry Lipshetz: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Streamed & Screened an entertainment podcast about movies and TV. From Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, managing editor of the national Newsroom at Lee and co-host of the program of Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter. Bruce, we're back.

Bruce Miller: It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas. We've got a lot of stuff unpacked because this is the week that they start opening up. A lot of new shows, a lot of new specials, a lot of new films on. Were we were really worried there for a while. But I think we're in a good place right now. There are a lot of things that we want to see. Candy cane Lane. Have you heard of this?

Terry Lipshetz: I have not, no.

Bruce Miller: Eddie Murphy. It's where he gets a chance to kind of play like Tim Allen or Chevy Chase. And it's his big Christmas thing that's coming out this week. And it's one of those kind of I want to be Clark Griswold. I want to have the house decorated with the most lights of anybody. It's Eddie Murphy then? Diary of a wimpy kid. Cabin Fever. Christmas cabin fever. are you a Wimpy Kid fan?

Terry Lipshetz: No. That kind of predated me a little bit.

Bruce Miller: It's since kind of switched because it was live action. Now it's animated. And this is a movie movie thing about he gets in trouble with a snowplow and he wants to cover his tracks so nobody knows about it because he really wants a gaming system. Sounds just like Terry. And then he has to try and figure out how he's going to promote the lie without being found out. And it's really cute. I saw it and I was like, this is pretty good. This is a nice little look at this.

Terry Lipshetz: Need a little more family stuff out there, too.

Bruce Miller: That's what we're throwing out there. We have the Doctor Who special. Are you a big Doctor Who fan?

Terry Lipshetz: Never. Never got into it, no.

Bruce Miller: Well, they're going to introduce the new Doctor Who. They're going to throw back to some of the old ones. That's a big thing that's coming this week. Then we get into what I'd like to call the documentary area. A lot of documentaries are out there. American Symphony. I think I might have mentioned this before with John Baptiste. Fascinating. Fascinating. I watched it over the weekend. And it's about how he was having the greatest time ever. And his wife was experiencing one of the biggest lows. She was, diagnosed with cancer. And she was going through a bone marrow transplant. And he was winning all the Grammys. And they juxtaposed the two things quite well. Suleika [Jaouad]  is her name. And she is just a marvel at how she dealt with all of this and then how he deals with tempering, his enthusiasm over his own career because his wife is do we know how it's going to end? We don't and the documentary kind of has that same trajectory. We don't know where this is going. So that's a fascinating one. Thriller at 40. They go back and they look at all of the people who were involved in Thriller and they talked to a number of them about what it was like making Thriller. I think that's fascinating. I think that's really good documentary.

Terry Lipshetz: For me, growing up on MTV, thriller is just one of those music videos that it's just iconic. Absolutely.

Bruce Miller: MJ The musical, is on Broadway. And I think this is another one of those ways to politely deal with Michael Jackson's life without getting into Michael Jackson's life. so that'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Now, later in the month, we're going to get Oprah's journey. Oprah and her color purple journey. And if you ever heard her talking about this, she did a couple of interviews this last week. I sat in on one of them where she talks about that really started her career. She was just a, local television personality who wanted more but didn't know what to do. And Steven Spielberg offered her the job in the movie Color Purple. And by just kind of letting go and not worrying about anything, she was able to create Oprah. And this talks about how she got from that movie to now, where she's producing the new musical that's coming out at Christmas time.

Terry Lipshetz: Wow.

Bruce Miller: And the musical is different. It is not what I was expecting, having seen the Broadway revival that was very spare and kind of pulled back. This movie is just like a huge musical. It's got big musical numbers. It's interesting. Very interesting. And then having Oprah kind of as an overlay on this whole journey. Fascinating. So those are kind of, the documentaries that are hanging out there. Then we've got series, some series that are interesting. I talked to the cast of Percy Jackson and the Olympians.

Terry Lipshetz: Oh, yeah.

Bruce Miller: That has been hanging out there. How long, did you see any of the Percy Jackson movies?

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah, this was something that we as a family watched a lot of, in the last year or two. One of my daughters, who's just a crazy bookworm, knock through the entire series of the books. And then we watched, I think it was, what, two movies. And they were planning on continuing it, but then it just fell apart. The movies were okay. They weren't spectacular. We've been eyeballing this one. So tell me it's good, please.

Bruce Miller: Well, they did the Lightning Thief as a Broadway musical. It did okay. It didn't win awards, but it was interesting. And it's been touring around. So you might find it somewhere in the country if you're looking. But now they decided we're going back to the beginning. We're going to try this again and see where we can get and the first season will deal with the first book. They have three kids that are basically unknowns that are cast in this. And they're excited about it. For them, there are a lot of these kind of guest star gods that show up. So you're going to find a bunch of big names, including Lin Manuel Miranda, He's, Hermes. So there are a number of these ones that will kind of pop in and be a surprise. I think its 810 episode, something like that. But fascinating. They spend a lot of money on it. They're trying hard to create another Harry Potter vibe. I think that's what three kids friends dealing with things. And the kid said that the fight scenes were really kind of fun. So who knows if that's it could be the big thing. But that's coming up. I think it starts December 20. So we'll see how that kind of spins down and if it is interesting. Back in my documentary, Kick, we, live here. It's a series of stories about LGBTQ residents around the country. And it's in unlikely places like Iowa, where they talk about their lives and what it was like. And I think this is a fascinating look at people in places that you wouldn't expect, if that's the right terminology for this. It's fascinating because they'll talk about their lives and what kind of struggles they have in every part of the country. It's produced by Ryan Murphy's husband. And Ryan Murphy. You may know from a lot of those TV series like glee and, American horror Story. he's got a lot of things on the front burner. But this is one that his husband is producing. And he sees a hope for this, that they will go all around the world eventually and tell you all about what's happening. Murder in Boston. It was a 1989 murder in Boston. Obviously, the husband tried to pin it on a black man.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: They then later found out that the husband was maybe trying to get out of something. Netflix had a series on it. And then who else has one now? Max. So it's like one begets another. Murdaugh murders the movie. It's on Lifetime as a movie. And this is about the Alex Murdaugh, case, where he was charged with killing his wife and his son.

Terry Lipshetz: Right?

Bruce Miller: It was unfolding while they were making the movie version of this. It's like, how do you get a resolution out of this? But they were worried about the strike. They were worried about everything else. And finally it came out in October. And still the case wasn't over. And I got a chance to talk to Bill Pullman, who's the star who plays Alec in the film version. And he said he was watching the Netflix documentary before he started filming. So he'd get a little more sense of all this because it was changing daily and what this was like for him. He also has a son who's in Lessons In is his career is just blossoming. And dad will talk about what he thought was going to happen with Lewis's career. Lewis today was just nominated for an Independent Spirit Award for lessons in chemistry.

Terry Lipshetz: All right, that sounds good. Let's go ahead to that.

Bruce Miller: Know, the strange thing about this is the news was unfolding while you were making this. Have you ever had that before where you've had to kind of deal with what might be happening and then play the story or what's that like?

Bill Pullman: Yeah, I have never done that before. I don't think there's a lot where, like with the sinner, you don't know what the story is going to be. But this is different. This was like wild rogue people doing people things. It's not a manipulation of writers or anything. And, that was one thing. And then the fact that you just knew that nobody was going to it wasn't like they saw all the footage when it happened, and then they were going to give it a break. And then you come in with a clean slate. You're layering your story on top of yet another doc series like the Netflix. One was strong, and everybody saw that. And then there was many others that came on. Most of them are called Murdoch murders. And then we came along. Murdoch murders the movie.

Bruce Miller: The movie. Do you prepare by watching all of that? Or do you say, no, I don't want to be teeded by that.

Bill Pullman: Well, my first instinct was I didn't want to do it if they were expecting to be a mimic kind of thing. And I played, like in Too Big to Fail. I played Jamie Diamond. And there was a lot available on him that I, could access. He's pretty public person. This one. I felt like an HBO can be very there's just a lot of producers, sometimes that give you the feeling like you've got to fit their idea of what they think is the way he wore his hair, all that. Whereas this one, I didn't want to get into that. And I thought, I'll not watch a lot of it. I think I've seen enough. And then I started in. And then like everybody else, curiosity just led me to just say, I got to look at it again. Some of it was a tension between needing to learn lines and keep moving with shooting. Ah, so you're going vertical then. But then you get online and you're watching this stuff and you're going horizontal. And you know that it's like, I can't spend more time looking at this, because I got to go vertical. And yet you can't pull out just too many details, too compelling. But somehow I did end up watching more than I thought.

Bruce Miller: Are you still interested in his case, in his situation? Or have you said, okay, I'm done now. I'm out of it.

Bill Pullman: Well I don't have a search on him or anything but like today was the verdict for the state embezzlement that all came down today and somebody showed me on the phone what the results were. Pretty much everybody I know will say hey, did you hear or check it out, what's happening? And then I would check it out the voice too. Did you study that so you could.

Bruce Miller: Get the voice just like his voice?

Bill Pullman: Some of it was this great thing about southern people. There's lots of different versions of that South Carolina thing. There's the mountain and then there's this southern pied bond that's slower but he could talk very fast but also very good communicator and a lot of it came from the starting low and going up high and hidden certain words especially when he was doing his testimony and he just loved to say dog. Well what you have to understand about these dogs they're Munton dogs all that just watching how those signature ah, coded dialect I think and so much performative in his case he was different in different circumstances.

Bruce Miller: There's so much in this about his relationship with his dad and then his relationship with his son. How does that work with you and your kids? Here you have a kid going in the same business say you're in find yourself giving advice or saying you're not doing this, you're not doing that. Where does that work?

Bill Pullman: Yeah that is the thing about as an actor now it's common when you're running into people laypeople or young actors. Do you have any advice for me? I don't know when this started but it's like a virus man. I never asked anybody to give me advice and I don't think if they did I usually thought I was scornful of know because I figured I don't just have a mistrust of that that's A leads to B equals learning. You get so much by osmosis and everything and I think that's true with Lewis really would only be really granular with him. I don't have it Bruce. I don't have overarching big wisdoms of truisms that always hold up brain or shine. I'm always aware that I'm looking at opposites so much. I'm so much more intrigued by what I say and then I could also get behind the opposite of that quite quickly.

Bruce Miller: Did you think he would go into the business when he was a kid? Did you say oh yeah, this one's going to be an actor?

Bill Pullman: You know he were I've talked about this particularly with actresses know different times about what their kids are like and I remember it was Julia Armand who was just know, some actors come out of exhibitionism and some comes out of extreme shyness and they both can be good actors. Lewis was not I didn't think of him as overly exhibitionist. In fact he really had a lot of performance anxiety early on that he decided he didn't want to be victim to. And he was a drummer and was having trouble performing in high school. And he worked through that. And by his senior year, he said, now I'm going to try to be in a play. I'm going to work through that. So it was an effortful to get through all that, which I admire him for.

Bruce Miller: What is it like now when you see him and he's doing so well?

Bill Pullman: Yeah, he really is such a wash of relief and wonderment that comes over me when I watch now this lessons in chemistry. Now know, he has Astounding chemistry with Brie Larson that I've been watching that and it's know, watching an animal at the like just so curious about the behavior.

Terry Lipshetz: Thanks again for that interview, Bruce. Fascinating stuff. It sounds like an interesting series. So it might be one I'm going to look to check out.Now, Bill Pullman, he's been around. He's done a know, he's Lone Starr from Spaceballs right.

Bruce Miller: His career is so eclectic. You really can't pin it down as to he's this or he's that. they always talk about him as the best president on film.

Terry Lipshetz: I would vote for Bill Pullman for president. Is he a Democrat? Is he a Republican? I don't even know what he cares. He saved Planet Earth. He knew what he was. He was a war hero.

Bruce Miller: Right.

Terry Lipshetz: Because he was a fighter jet pilot.

Bruce Miller: And he was presidential. That's all we need.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah, but he's been around. I mean, you look at, Spaceballs, obviously. He played the father of Christina Ricci and Casper back in 96. USA Network had a, it was a very brief series. It was called The Sinner. And he played a detective, Harry Ambrose. And it was sort of an anthology because he was the only character that went through all four seasons. But it was these very strange cases that only the detective, Harry Ambrose, could somehow solve.

Bruce Miller: Well, and he says this kind of plays off that by doing this real life thing. It's a different kind of skill set that he needed to have. Because when it's unfolding while you're making it, it's a different world. And I like it. It's very easy going, very kind of dad like, if that's a good term.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: And he never wanted to be an actor, really. He taught acting, in Montana. And the students all said, you need to be an actor. You need to try. And it worked. It worked for so, he's one of the good guys. But they're bringing it back now because he didn't get to do publicity when it first premiered, because we were airstrike time. So pushing him because we're heading into the Screen Actors Guild Awards, the Oscars, Golden Globes, all the Critic Awards, and they want to give him some attention for this. And hopefully it'll work they'll be able to get that momentum going behind his performance. He's one of the biggest names Lifetime has had on their channel. He gets a chance to really kind of do what he wants to do. You see him playing around with his voice a lot. You might come to a different conclusion about some of this, but you see the pressures that Alec was facing and, how it being part of a family that has a history. I'm glad I'm not. It's like so often when you see on TV an ad that says, we don't charge you a cent for representing you. Well, no, they don't, but they take a piece of the action if you win, and it's probably a huge part of the money you get in a settlement. is this a good way to go? I don't know.

Terry Lipshetz: When are we getting the sequel to Spaceballs? Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money?

Bruce Miller: He did not say. He did not say. But I have a feeling that if somebody brought him a script, he'd say, I'm in.

Terry Lipshetz: What's Mel Brooks doing? He's semi-retired, but he's still doing things.

Bruce Miller: Mel is still working. He's got a lot of the front know he's been redoing his young Frankenstein Broadway musical. Well, another one that I want to mention to you, because I think it's kind of interesting. It's Monk's last case. Remember Monk?

Terry Lipshetz: Oh, sure.

Bruce Miller: And he kind of disappeared on us. Where has he been? Well, he's been at the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is where he's of course. But he's coming back to do what they say. It's one more this is the last one. Is it? I mean, it's even titled Last Case. But I bet you any money, if it works really well and they can work it out, he'll do more. Yeah. And so it's his last chance to kind of deal with issues that surround him. They sent, in the mail as kind of a thing, of course, and Sanitizer Nice a hanger and a suit bag. And it's all a way to push the idea. Tony Shalhoub is back, and many of the other people that you saw on the series over the years will make special appearances.

Terry Lipshetz: You know, Tony Shalhoub, though, he made a special appearance recently, because I live in Wisconsin, and he is, from Wisconsin, and he is one of the Green Bay Packers biggest fans. And while everybody in the world was talking about Taylor Swift coming to Lambeau Field, Tony Shalhoub was there. He was mingling with the people. He wasn't in the glass box with Taylor Swift. He was down on the field hanging out with Simone Biles.

Bruce Miller: That could be the next Prave. For Taylor Swift.

Terry Lipshetz: That's right. Right.

Bruce Miller: If you're not with Tony Shalhoub, who are?

Bill Pullman: Exactly.

Bruce Miller: It's nice to see him doing something know, after they end a series, you think, now, how much sooner will it be until I get to see him again. Well, this was great. He had this one two punch. I don't think he was that big in this last season of Mrs. Basil, but, it's nice to see him revisit his old parts. And who knows if he might not be back for another Wings Redo. They've talked about that many times, so you never know. So that's what we've got. But it's a lot on TV this time. So look at your TV schedules, what you like to watch. All of the premium channels are introducing things, even like, Jeff Lewis. Are you a Jeff Lewis fan? Jeff Lewis is a home improvement guy. And I thought I had given up on it. I didn't think it was coming back. But he's doing more Hollywood house lifts and we'll see what happens there. But there are a lot of those things that are out there. I want you to call attention to it because this is the time of year when some of those might just slip by.

Terry Lipshetz: You know, we talked about this also where when we're trying to come up with their predictions for when would the writer strikes and the actor strike ends. And I threw out the idea of things would kind of loosen up right around Thanksgiving. Because it's that time where all of a sudden there's no college football. The NFL season is winding down. We're heading into the winter. People aren't outside as much. It's time to become snuggle up by the fire and become a couch potato again for a few months. So you need programming. And sure enough, as we're getting into the holidays and there's things out there, and I'm starting to see previews for show. I keep seeing this preview on football for, like, Night Court. Season two is coming back. And I just saw and this is a ways out, but I was watching something on HBO, and all of a sudden, the preview for the season two of House of the Dragon is coming up. And that's getting me excited for next summer already. So it's just good to see programming is coming back.

Bruce Miller: It gives us hope. Isn't that looking? If I have TV shows, I'll be okay. I could make it through the winter.

Terry Lipshetz: The holiday season, the time for hope in television.

Bruce Miller: That's right. Next week, I've got a really special thing for you, and I hope you tell others about it.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay?

Bruce Miller: it is a look at somebody who was part of two of the biggest things this year. The biggest movie, one of the biggest movies. It's not Barbie and Ken, so don't look for that. And also one of the biggest series. And he talks about what that whole year has been like and also how he got the gig. He did not plan to be an actor. He was not in it. Like some are where they go to school for this. He was going to be a chemist. All of a sudden, things changed for him. And you'll hear the story. It's a fascinating story, a story I didn't know. I was excited to hear the interview, to be a part of the interview. And that'll next week, and we won't spoil it anymore. But you want to tune in for that because think that's very special.

Terry Lipshetz: That sounds good. Well, I guess, on that note, we will wrap up this week's episode and we have to look ahead. Then you've got to come back to find out who we're going to talk to on another episode of streamed and screen.

Bruce Miller: And after that, we're going to be talking the best pictures of the year and the best TV shows of the year. So get ready. Those are going to be coming up later in the month. Bye.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The year is winding down but there is no end in sight when it comes to movie options in theaters between now and the end of the year. In this week's episode of Streamed & Screened, Bruce Miller highlights more than a dozen films that range from family-friendly to other that will compete with "Oppenheimer," "Killers of the Flower Moon" and others for Oscar consideration.

Where to watch

"May December" in select theaters now and coming to Netflix Dec. 1

"Saltburn" in theaters now

"American Fiction" in theaters Dec. 15

"The Iron Claw" in theaters Dec. 22

Contact us!

We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Terry Lipshetz: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Streamed & Screened, an entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal, a longtime entertainment reporter, and hopefully well rested after our little Thanksgiving break.

Bruce Miller: Well rested? What do you mean well rested? I was watching movies during the whole break. They are stacking up like, uh, wood in my house. That's how many new movies we've got coming. And if you thought the year was done, you are absolutely wrong. There are so many new movies that are coming, I can't keep up with it. Even though I would like to say that we've seen the Best Picture so far this year, I think that could be wrong. I think we could be seeing one that could slip in there, and it'll be Best Picture.

Terry Lipshetz: Wow. Could the operative word.

Bruce Miller: That is the operative word.

Disney’s latest animated film ‘Wish’ underwhelms

Bruce Miller: I got to tell you, though, I went to the theater to see Wish, okay? And I was all ready. Yeah, I like cartoons. I really do. I like them, too. And I am all in with all that stuff. And when I saw this, I was so disappointed. It tries to be a tribute to all hundred years of the Disney Company. So it brings back concepts, kind of characters. Peter Pan floats through there somewhere, and there's, uh, just a sensibility of, how can we make another buck off this stuff? That's what I think wish is. Um, and you'll see characters that remind you of other characters. But I was disappointed because Christmas, you look forward to the big Disney movie that they put out there, and this isn't it. Even the songs are lame, really. So let it know.

Terry Lipshetz: I've seen the trailer and the first time I always get excited because I love Disney movies. I love classic animated Disney movies, and also the Pixar movies as well. I saw the trailer for Wish, and my first reaction was that this looks just there was nothing about it that grabbed me, and it felt old. I don't know. There was something about it. I don't know what it was, but I looked at it and know, I feel like I've seen this story a hundred times before. Maybe I haven't, but I don't just that's just the initial reaction I had.

Bruce Miller: It takes place on the Mediterranean, and the castle looks vaguely like the one from The Little Mermaid, but, you know, they had trouble with that because, uh, some disgruntled animator drew something that wasn't exactly a seashell, shall we say. And so the idea that they would reference that somehow visually with this is just a real oh, okay. And the part that Chris Pine plays, he's the kind of the king of this odd world, and he is the keeper of Wishes.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay?

Bruce Miller: And the guy can sing. That's the thing we learned from this is that Chris Pine can sing. So good news. But the songs that he's singing are like, really? Is this really what you want to be singing about? And he's got an apprentice, Asha, who is voiced by Ariana DeBose, and she wants to push the agenda for her grandfather, who's turning 100. And she wants his wish to be approved. But this king decides that he doesn't want to grant all the wishes. He wants to keep the power to himself. Now, there's a political message in this somehow. Um, and I wouldn't doubt that there was a hidden Disney versus Ron DeSantis message lurking somewhere in there too, but it's just I don't know. And when you see these friends who are the seven dwarves, you think, well, what was that all about? Why are they doing those kind of stupid things? So wish was not what I was wishing for. Wish didn't come up to the level, and I don't dare talk too much about it, but at Christmas time, there are going to be some other family films that I think are much more appropriate, more fun, and dad and mom won't have to worry about, oh, uh, what are they trying to say with this thing? And how do we unpack it more there to be seen.

‘May December’ is a fascinating look at family dynamics over the holidays

Bruce Miller: The other odd thing I noticed over the holidays in looking at, I swear, I must have seen ten or 15 movies, is there's a lot of kind of worry about families and what does family mean? May December? Is this kind of based on the Mary Kay Letourneau case where she married a younger, uh, he was a student.

Terry Lipshetz: Her student, right? Yeah.

Bruce Miller: But this is not their story. It's just kind of inspired by, if you will, and it shows what the relationship is like much later in their lives. And a woman comes to their home because she's doing a, ah, role based on this, and she wants to see what the relationship is all about. Natalie Portman plays the actress, and Juliana Moore, um, is the Mary Kay Letourneau part, but the one to watch for, and he won a Gotham Award, is Charlie Melton, who plays the young man in an older age and, um, what he's like with his wife and his children. And it's fascinating. It's fascinating. You understand that maybe he was the one who suffered the most in the situation. But it's May December, and that's an interesting thing about family dynamics. All of us Strangers is another interesting kind of unpacking. And this is a bunch of, oh, what do I want to call it? Uh, it's a fantasy of sorts. Because you're wondering what happens or what happened that this man is talking to his parents who are dead. It's very Sixth Sense in that respect. And he asks them questions about things and it's can you talk to your parents? Or somebody that's important to you in your life is gone? And can they advise you about your life. Very, very fascinating. But I don't know that it'll catch on with everybody.

‘Saltburn’ is a film that explores family dynamics

Bruce Miller: Paul Mescal is in there as a romantic interest for Andrew Strong, I believe it is. Andrew Strong is the guy whose parents are there. And Claire Foy and Jamie Bell play the parents. Now, they're younger than Andrew, but you see he has a relationship with this guy and he's going to talk to his parents about this relationship. And it's fascinating to see how that is unpacked. Saltburn is another family relationship thing. Have you heard about Saltburn?

Terry Lipshetz: No, I haven't.

Bruce Miller: Emerald Fennell or fennel or however you want to pronounce it, uh, who won an Oscar for promising young woman shows. This young man going to Oxford and he's from not a wealthy family. And he goes to Oxford and he sees that there really is a clannishness there to all of the people who go to Oxford. And this rich kid, played by Jacob O'Lordy, is nice to him. But then he returns the favor and lets him borrow his bike when Jacob's bike breaks down. And that gets them talking and becoming friends. And the rich kid invites the poor kid to come and spend the summer at his house because, ah, his dad is supposedly dead and his mother know she has problems, issues. And so he said, well, come and spend the summer with us. We'll have lots of fun at Saltburn. That's the name of their house. Well, the house is incredible. It's like something you'd see out of Downton Abbey or whatever. And the people who are there are crazy. His family crazy, the hangars on crazy. And it all kind of comes together about what does family mean? How do you create a family? Is there a family? What do you do if your family is against you? And what if you lie? It's very fascinating film that I think is going to get a lot of attention in this follow up during um, the Christmas season.

Several big family films coming out on Christmas Day

Bruce Miller: And then the other one that's a big family film is The Color Purple. That's coming out on Christmas Day. And that's a musical version of Color Purple. Um, it was a big musical a number of years ago and didn't really go anywhere. And then they brought it back to Broadway by stripping it down. Instead of having huge sets and lots of costumes, they did it with chairs. And Cynthia Rebo was in it. And she wanted Tony. The Thing won a Tony for best revival. And now they've taken all of that and decided to turn that into a movie. Oprah, who was in the original Color Purple movie, is one of the producers. Steven Spielberg is a producer. Quincy Jones is a producer. And Fantasia Barino, who was, um, an American Idol winner, she was in the original musical version of Color Purple. I know this is confusing and she's now starring in this and obviously can be an Oscar nominee but it shows how she warmed to her family and how her love for her sister kept her going during some very dark times. So family becomes a real interesting kind of thing. But those aren't the films that people are talking about for Best Picture. Maestro. Maestro is the thing you've got to look out for with Bradley Cooper and Carrie Mulligan. And, um, this is about Leonard Bernstein and his career. And it just takes a couple of small moments in his life that are kind of focused and you get to see what he was like and what the family dynamic was all about. And that is getting more buzz than you can imagine. I mean, I keep hearing about it all the time. Poor Things is another interesting one with Emma Stone, who they say is possibly going to be best actress. Um, and it's a Frankenstein kind of film where she is brought back to life and then she has to deal with all the things that happened as a result of that. Interesting, Willem Dafoe plays the doctor who brings her back to life. Oh, nice. Uh, Ruffalo is the man who marries her and brings her into the know American. Um, fiction is another one that's getting a lot of buzz. Jeffrey Wright is in that. And this is about a black writer who writes a book with all of these kind of clichés, for lack of a better term, anti-black stuff. And it becomes a huge hit. And he has to reconcile, how do I deal with this when I'm doing something that's against my own best interests? Um, and that's another one that people are talking about. There's one that I think grandma will love called The Boys in the Boat. And there's one of those ones that either, uh, Clint Eastwood comes up with or somebody in the background that you say, really, what was this all about? But it's one where you think, ah, I might like that. It's green book all over. But this is about a 1936, uh, rowing team.

Terry Lipshetz: Oh, right, yeah.

Bruce Miller: And directed by George Clooney. And it's their kind of story. And it's very simple. It isn't one that you're going to go, oh, and then the Nazis were right there. It isn't like that. It's just can they do it? And it's a Rocky story come from. And Rocky, if you may remember, was one of those Christmas films that people thought, uh, this is not going to win anything. This isn't anything. And it beat all the films that they were talking about for the whole year. All the President's Men network. Those were all the big kind of buzzwords during that period. And Rocky came out at Christmas and blew. Everybody.

Terry Lipshetz: Saw because I just went with my family. We saw, uh, the Hunger Games prequel, um, right before Thanksgiving. And one of the trailers they showed was Boys in the Boat. And I'm sitting there watching this trailer and thinking, like, I really want to see this because I love inspirational sports movies to begin with. But as you said, the comparison of Rocky, it felt like kind of a Rockyish type story where you've got this group, they are the underdogs. They're going up against heavyweights in collegiate rowing. And then of course, you've got, uh, the Nazi Germany of the time and the Olympic competition. So it seems like a real fascinating one and one that I definitely would like to get out and see.

Bruce Miller: There's a documentary out about it that's been around, but this is a fictionalized version and I think those are more accessible for most people. They're ones that you can really kind of latch onto and say, ah, that's interesting. So I would tend to think it'll do well at Christmas. I m don't know that it'll necessarily be nominated for best picture, but I do think it's one that Grandma is going to say, I'd like to see that boat that looks like, uh, a good movie for me. I get a lot of stuff in the mail and it's like reminders that you should look at this one more time. Creed three.

Movies released earlier in the year getting some additional Oscar buzz

Bruce Miller: Speaking of Rocky, they're pushing like crazy and I didn't is that on my list? No. The Margaret movie. Uh, is it you? God. It's me, Margaret, something like that. Long title that's coming back with a vengeance. And you'll see that, uh, Rachel McAdams is clearly being talked about as a best supporting actress candidate. But they're pulling those things into the Spider verse or, uh, what is it out of? What's the correct name for the new version? Across the spider.

Terry Lipshetz: Across the Spider-Verse. Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse. Spider-Verse, yes.

Bruce Miller: Um, is also getting a huge push. Air is back with a vengeance. In fact, I think I got a cassette player from them that know if you want to listen to the music from Air, here you go. Barbie, uh, is back with a vengeance. There are a lot of things that are Barbie, um, Oppenheimer.

Terry Lipshetz: Oppenheimer is on streaming now, I think, or just about to be. Yeah.

Bruce Miller: Uh, they are doing a big push too. So those are all ones that are making, um, an impact. The iron claw. I think it's called the iron claw. The wrestling movie that is going to be a surprise because it's got great performances in it. And you go Zac Efron. Really hold your breath because you'll be ready for something that's real interesting. And it's got Jeremy White.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah.

Bruce Miller: So come on.

Terry Lipshetz: From the bear.

Bruce Miller: From the bear. If you're in the bear, you got to be good.

Terry Lipshetz: He's cooking up something new, right?

Bruce Miller: Easy. He is cooking up something new. Is that a wrestling term? I think it is. There are screen, uh, biographies. Priscilla, which is about Priscilla Presley. That'll be big. Rustin, which is about the civil rights leader. That'll be big. So it's a lot of stuff that I'm looking at that thinking, hmm, m. And I haven't even scratched surface of the foreign language films. There's, uh, a ton of ones from Asia. A ton. And they could actually factor, uh, into the final round of you know, I started out at the beginning of the year with a list of the best films that I thought would be in the mic. And as I go along, there are so many new films that are coming in at the last minute that start bumping something off the list, and you go, wow, I didn't realize that. But what I did do was I had relatives, and I said to the relatives, okay, you need to go to the movies while I look at other things. And so I want you to go see something in the theater where you can really experience what this is all about. And I push them off to the holdovers because I think that really holds up, and it's something that I dare tell them about, and they don't go, oh, that was just terrible. You pick the worst movies if you like a movie. I know I'm going to hate the movie. So I had to have something that worked with it, and they loved it. They were raving about the holdovers, and maybe that's got the legs to hang in there for the rest of the year, I don't know. But I think what we're learning at this time, it ain't over till it's over.

Terry Lipshetz: It sounds like a lot of really good options here. Now, how many of these have you been able to screen so far?

Bruce Miller: Well, it was between ten or 15.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: And I sit at night, uh, and it's so unfair, because all year long you wait for something good, and this is like, good, good, great, incredibly good. And you've gone the whole year without seeing something that really trips some kind of trigger in you to make you want to see it, and you want to see it again. You want to see it a second time. But it depends on how I might see it. I might see it in theater, I might see it on my big screen TV. I might see it on my laptop. I have even watched things on my phone because that's how they send you the thing. Uh, so you get different in different ways, but it's like a quick run to see how good it is, and then if it's really good, you'll watch it a second time just to make sure that you've got all of the ducks in a row.

Terry Lipshetz: So did you get a chance to see poor things? Is that one of the ones that you have been able to screen yet?

Bruce Miller: I haven't. And it's one of those you know how you have it's like a, uh, carrot at the end of a yeah. And if you get through this, you can see that. And I haven't gotten to that okay.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. Because I'm curious because you mentioned Mark Ruffalo is in it. I love him. He's just a tremendous actor. But I always feel like he's always yelling. He's always getting worked up about something and yelling at I just I was curious if he's yelling at all the movie, because he always seems agitated.

Bruce Miller: Well, he's the Hulk.

Terry Lipshetz: That's right.

Bruce Miller: Exactly. But I'll watch it before next week. I'll make sure do that so that then I can tell you if it's happening. And Christmas movies. There's Christmas movies all over the place. Eddie Murphy's got one. Tim Allen is back as Santa Claus in that TV series. Yeah. Beyonce is back in her concert, uh, tour.

Terry Lipshetz: That's right.

Bruce Miller: Taylor Swift's thing has added more to the three plus hours that they had. So if you go on her birthday, you'll be able to see an even longer Taylor Swift concert movie.

Terry Lipshetz: Oh, boy.

Will ‘Wonka’ be a big hit movie to finish the year?

Terry Lipshetz: So the one that I'm curious about and my family's curious about is Wonka. Is that going to be any good?

Bruce Miller: How much can I tell you? Because technically, I can't review it yet.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: It isn't time. But it is a visual treat in terms of, like, the sets, the costumes, all of that kind of stuff. The people who did Paddington Two are behind this. Um, and Timothy Chalamet, I think, will surprise you as Willy Wonka.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: I don't know. Personally, I would cast him as Willy Wonka, but you find what his origin story is and how did he get this? Chocolate factory? Maybe.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. Well, maybe that's one, since you can't quite review it yet, maybe as we get closer, once you can, we can talk about that one in relation to the original, the one with Gene Wilder, uh, as well as the reboot that was done with, uh, Johnny Depp a number of years ago. Because I think both of those movies, they're so opposite of each other in so many different ways, but they're fascinating.

Bruce Miller: Yeah. This is, uh, a better fit for the Gene Wilder one.

Terry Lipshetz: That's kind of what I thought it felt. Know, visually, it's updated because you have the benefit of improved filmmaking techniques. But it felt like and they have the song. Yeah.

Bruce Miller: They get to have the song in. I hope that's not a spoiler alert. But the song is there, so you'll get to enjoy, um I sang a lot. Who doesn't? It's a great song. But I'm, uh, sure you've seen the ads where Hugh Grant is an Oompa Loompa.

Terry Lipshetz: Right.

Bruce Miller: And you find that origin story, too, which is okay.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay. All right. Well, I'm looking forward to that one.

Bruce Miller: I think, um, Wonka could be one of those ones that at Christmas time, it will be seen over and over and over and over.

Terry Lipshetz: Wow. Perfect.

Some of these Disney animated movies are not living up to the past

Terry Lipshetz: Kind of going back to the top of this episode when we're talking about Disney movies, and there's been a lot and this is in relation to Wish, which is out. It did come out this past weekend, it did not do well at the theater at all. And I kind of mentioned it just looked like one where uh, do I even want to see it? And I'm going back through the list of recent Disney movies and I'm looking at it and you know, like Zootopia I enjoyed it. Finding dory. I enjoyed it. Moana, I enjoyed it. Coco, I enjoyed it. And I liked incredibles too. But kind of after that it really starts taking a turn. Some of them are okay. I didn't mind Toy Story Four. Frozen Two was fine, but Onward was okay. Luca was okay. Ryan the Last Dragon was like, they were okay. But none of them felt like classics in my just even know I know a lot of people talked about it because of the song. It was one of those where I remember watching it and I kind of fell asleep while watching it. So I don't know, I really feel like some of these Disney animated movies are not living up to the past.

Bruce Miller: I think they kind of are searching for they did have people in place who were very well versed at doing this kind of stuff and they would stop somebody and say, no, we're not going to do that. And I think now they're so eager to find something that they greenlight stuff that shouldn't be.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah.

Bruce Miller: Ah, they have been using, um, short subjects as their way to test the market to kind of see if a concept works. And they have done well with that. But they're already talking frozen. Three, four and five.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah.

Bruce Miller: Do we need that many? I don't think we do, no.

Terry Lipshetz: But now it's a franchise so you can go back to it. I heard something about like a Toy Story Five is on tap now. It's like, do we really need another Toy Story? Especially after Lightyear kind of tanked.

Bruce Miller: But it's probably the, um, Marvel influence. Where Marvel? How many do they have?

Terry Lipshetz: Right?

Bruce Miller: And they're struggling. They don't know where they're headed. But I think when you go back to the well too many times the well dries up.

Terry Lipshetz: It does. Absolutely.

Bruce Miller: And in this come on, at the end of it, there's fireworks.

Terry Lipshetz: Spoiler.

Bruce Miller: Um alert. I'm telling you right now, there are fireworks at the end of the movie.

Terry Lipshetz: Mhm.

Bruce Miller: And what do the fireworks create? The head of Mickey Mouse. Uh, now is this something we should be seeing? No, it should not be in there. I'm sorry. Those are hidden Mickeys that you should find, not crash into. And I get that it's a hundredth anniversary of the Disney Company, but you don't have to do a retrospective where everything is and it's too bad because Ariana DeBose is a great talent and she should have been a Disney princess. And I don't know that this is the best Disney princess for her to be. There's a cute goat in this named Valentino oh, yeah. And he's worth, um, a stuffed animal. But the star the Star, have you seen it? It looks like Pokemon.

Terry Lipshetz: It's very disturbing. Yeah.

Bruce Miller: Right. And you go, what is this bit in this? I'm not up for that. Uh, or like the star that was in the More, you know, do you remember those from morning cartoons where the star would be like yes, and it would be and that's what it is. And I think you could do a little better on the star. I think I could. The Star.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: So that's what you learn over the holidays is that there are a lot of movies out there that underperform and some that you never heard of that are going to be big, over performers. So be ready, because now you're going to see instead of one movie and ten screens, you're going to see probably ten different movies on those ten screens. And I think you need to be a savvy consumer, knowing what you're getting into before you just jump into it. Just because it's from a company that you've trusted in the past doesn't mean necessarily they'll have things like from the people who sat you in the seats for whatever.

Terry Lipshetz: Right.

Bruce Miller: That's an usher. Yeah, somebody who ushered me into the theater. I should but that's that's about how thin it is from one of the producers, uh, or from a second, uh, tier. Yeah. I don't know. Where is Alan Menken? Is he not writing songs anymore? Come on, get out there. Write a song for us. It's there, but I think after the holidays, we've had this kind of like, okay, now what? Now what is good? I promise there are good movies that are coming that you will want to see. So carve out some time between now and Christmas, because you're going to get them each week. They'll be dropping into your theaters and be ready for them because they're remarkable. And, Saltburn, if you consider yourself a film buff and you want to see something that's different and interesting, it is very much on par with something like Psycho.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: Uh huh. You go, this is not at all what I thought this was going to be. And it surprises you. And so I would get to something like that before everybody knows what the secret is.

Terry Lipshetz: Perfect. Yeah, no, that sounds good. I mean, like a 6th sense, almost, where you don't want the cat out of the bag. Exactly.

Terry Lipshetz: All right, well, on that note, a lot of good options here. Saltburn. You got the color purple, maestro. Poor things. Boys in the boat. The Iron Claw. A lot of options here. So get out to the theater and check something out. A lot of good stuff to do in the next few weeks as the temperatures turn and you need to get.

Bruce Miller: Out of the house. Next week, we're going to turn to TV. I'm going to talk about some things that are kind of interesting now because they're ramping up the TV. People are going to be in full force by January, and you'll start seeing new shows in February, and there's some that they're bringing back to try and remind you of how good they really were. So I have an interview for you next week, and we're, um, turning to TV next week, so get ready. No more shopping.

Terry Lipshetz: No more shopping. All right, thanks again for listening to another episode of streamed and screened.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

27 years after becoming a classic dark comedy that earned seven Academy Award nominations, including Oscar wins for Joel Coen and Ethan Coen (best original screenplay) and Frances McDormand (best actress), "Fargo" is back for its fifth season as an anthology series on FX and Hulu.

Showrunner Noah Hawley's latest installment of the show that premiered in 2014 presents another standalone story that remains connected with the other seasons as well as the original movie. Season 5, which premieres Nov. 21, features Jon Hamm, Juno Temple and Jennifer Jason Leigh as the latest A-list actors to join the revolving cast that has included Billy Bob Thornton, Martin Freeman, Allison Tolman and Colin Hanks (season 1); Kirsten Dunst, Jesse Plemons, Kieran Culkin, Patrick Wilson and Ted Danson (season 2); Ewan McGregor, Mary Elizabeth Winstead and Carrie Coon (season 3); and Chris Rock and Jason Schwartzman (season 4).

While the first three season received generally positive reviews from both critics and audiences, the fourth season was mixed as the show was Certified Fresh on Rotten Tomatoes with an 84% score from critics but a weaker 54% from audience ratings. So how good is season 5? While we keep things spoiler-free, co-host Bruce Miller screened half of the episodes and not only thinks it's the best show we'll get for the remainder of 2023, but it's at least the second best "Fargo" season to date.

Miller has interviews with the three big stars as well as costume designer Carol Case and makeup department head Gail Kennedy. 

Where to watch and more coverage

Contact us!

We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

With the holidays rapidly approaching, films related to Thanksgiving and Christmas can an offer a touch of nostalgia while telling an emotional story. Think "Planes, Trains and Automobiles" and "A Christmas Story."

This year, directory Alexander Payne ("Election," "Sideways," "Nebraska") brings us "The Holdovers" starring Paul Giamatti as teacher Paul Hunham, Dominic Sessa as student Angus Tully and Da'Vine Joy Randolph as school cook Mary Lamb. The story centers on students that can't go home for Christmas break and a teacher that is forced to chaperone the group.

Co-host Bruce Miller gives his thoughts on the film, and we have interview clips with Payne, Randolph, Sessa, writer/producer David Hemingson and producer Mark Johnson.

Miller also shares his thoughts on the Netflix film "Nyad," starring Annette Bening as endurance swimmer Diana Nyad and Jodie Foster as her coach, Bonnie Stoll. It tells the story of Nyad's swim through shark-infested waters between Havana, Cuba and Key West, Florida. The film is directed by Elizabeth Chai Vasarhelyi and Jimmy Chin. The pair co-directed the Oscar-winning documentary "Free Solo."

Where to watch and more coverage

Contact us!

We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Holiday Films for Families

Streamed and Screamed podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises

Terry Lipshetz: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Streamed and Screened an entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter.

Bruce Miller: I'm a holdover.

Terry Lipshetz: You're a holdover. You've been here forever. You are a holdover.

Bruce Miller: I am. I remember when Alexander Payne wasn't making movies. How's that for a connection? But, yeah, we are getting into Thanksgiving season. So this means that you're going to get films that maybe the whole family would go to. Because, come on, what else is there to do over Thanksgiving holiday? Eat and go to the movies, right?

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah.

Bruce Miller: And so you're going to start seeing some of those ones that are a little more like Planes, Trains and Automobiles. Back in the day, that was a big kind of holiday. Let's go see it because it's entertaining, and that's what we'll be getting now. I think you'll be seeing some of those before the Christmas rush and then the Oscar run, so look for the fun ones. And one that I really loved was the Holdovers. That's the newest Alexander Payne film. It's set in 1970, and it's set at a private boys’ school in the East Coast. And, apparently all kids didn't go home. Some had a reason. Their parents were off on a ski trip and they didn't want to take the kid home or they didn't have the ability to get them home or whatever. And so those kids were called the Holdovers. They stayed at school, and then as a result, they had to put up with whoever they threw in their face. There was usually a teacher who got punished to be with those kids because who wants to be at home during the holidays? Nobody.

Terry Lipshetz: Nobody.

Bruce Miller: So, the one who gets stuck, even though he did it the year before, is played by Paul Giamatti, and he plays an ancient history teacher that nobody likes. They just hate him. He gives them all F's. He thinks that they're lazy and they don't really live up to their expectations. And this is 1970. Remind you. And so the Kids that are left back think, oh, God, this is going to be just terrible. And he plans classes for them, exercise, situations for them. And then they have all the bad food that's left over, and the cook is there, and she is going to keep him occupied over the holidays when he isn't. So it's like the worst situation you could think of. And then a group of them gets the opportunity to go on a ski trip. Except one student, he's stuck at the school with the bad teacher and the cook. And so the three of them have what they call their holiday experience.

Terry Lipshetz: Sounds almost like my college. I went to a smaller private university in New Jersey. so you couldn't stay over during the winter break. They closed the dorms. They basically kick you out unless you were basically stuck there because you were, let's say, a foreign exchange.

Bruce Miller: Foreign students.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah, that was it. That was it. They were the holdovers, and they got to stay in the dorms through the holidays. But that was it.

Bruce Miller: I never was a holdover. God, it was, like, icy as hell. And I would still force somebody to come and pick me up because I thought, the last thing I want to do is be stuck here. So I was good. I got out. But I can imagine it would be dreadful because you see this? And this was during my time. It's set during the. That's about my period. And you go, oh, my God. They have captured so many things that are so specific. They have a pinball machine. And, the young man who is stuck back wants to play the pinball machine. Now, what they did was they put their order, their dime, whatever it cost, on the top of the pinball machine. And then that meant they were next. And the kid gets in a big fight with this guy who says, no, you're not next. My friend is next. And you think, oh, that is. I remember that. Who would have thought that that would be a part of it? But they've done a great job of capturing all those little things, even down to the clothes. And Alexander Payne said that when he was casting, he was particularly looking for young actors who had the right haircuts because he didn't want them to look like they were contemporary. They needed those 70s haircuts. And they do have those 70s haircuts.

Terry Lipshetz: Kind of the moppy.

Bruce Miller: Yeah, it's not quite mullet yet, because that wasn't in style.

Terry Lipshetz: That's more 80s.

Bruce Miller: Yeah. This was just kind of a head of hair that's post-Vietnam, where you just wanted to grow your hair out in those days. Can I tell you? I had hair that was down to the back of my shoulders. I had long, long hair because I didn't want to cut it. And my dad would always make a huge stink about that hair. He says, when are you going to cut this hair? And so I pull my hair back and hide it in the collar of my shirt. And every night at dinner, he would pull the hair out and say, you got to cut this. That kind of sentiment. That hair was a big issue for people back in those days.

Terry Lipshetz: It was, yeah. I've seen photos of my parents back in the. It was an interesting time with hairstyles. Now, in 1970, that would have made me, let's see, about negative five years old. So I wasn't present at that time.

Bruce Miller: You were not breaking any of those rules?

Terry Lipshetz: No, I was not.

Bruce Miller: But I was edging into the college years. It was a different world, a much different world. And you notice that, too, how social media and the Internet and all that has changed so much here. The kids have to look things up. And do they want to look things up? No, they do not. I think that the attitudes are still the same. You still press up against authority. But it's fascinating to see how the friendships develop. And I don't know that I would ever have been friends with a teacher of mine, but when you're forced to do it, you become a little closer. Adversity breeds friendship. Maybe that's the moral of the story. Yeah.

Terry Lipshetz: and it's diverse, too. You've got different people of different eras.

Bruce Miller: Da'Vine Joy Randolph, she plays the head cook at the thing. And her son, you find out early on, her son went to school there. She agreed to be the cook at the school so that her son would be able to get a good education, which is what she was hoping for. And when the movie begins, you learn very quickly that her son has died. And so she's dealing with grief over the holidays. The young man is upset because his parents aren't taking him home. And the teacher is, not liked, as they openly. Nobody likes you, so why should we? So they all have a reason to fight for something.

Terry Lipshetz: But ultimately, the odd couple comes together. I can only presume.

Bruce Miller: I enjoyed it so much. It has been kind of testing the market throughout. Okay. And so it has had pre screenings or previews or whatever before it actually opens this week. So you can see the audience. It kind of had a little taste of what it was all about, how they react. And I think the reaction is good. It's heartfelt. And it reminded me a lot of Green book.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: Where kind of unlikely people are thrust together and how they build a friendship out of that. You remember that with, the driver and the musician. And the musician couldn't go in certain restaurants. He wasn't allowed in certain hotels. So there was definitely a different time. And you see that same reflection here in the holdovers.

Terry Lipshetz: Interesting. So you mentioned at the top of this podcast, planes, trains, and automobiles, which is to me, one of my favorite movies of all time. And we did a whole episode on John Hughes movies to begin with quite a ways back. But that one in particular is one that it's almost like a tradition in the family. Got to throw planes, trains, and automobiles on. And it's in some ways because there's not a whole lot of Thanksgiving specific movies tend to get Christmas movies, not necessarily Thanksgiving, but it was that kind of story where Steve Martin's character, John Candy's character, are two very different people, but they're put in a very strange circumstance together, and they kind of come together. It almost feels like this movie takes some of that as well.

Bruce Miller: Very much so. The other thing that's interesting is that those were people who wanted to get home, right. And here's ones who can’t. There isn't a home, so they have to create a home, and they bring a tree, they do presents. It's very, touching how they kind of make a family, even though there isn't a family. All three of the actors are potential Oscar nominees. That's why.

Terry Lipshetz: Wow. Do you see this becoming like a traditional holiday classic? The one that we pop on Christmas.

Bruce Miller: Story, playing Dominic Sessa, who plays, the young man, has never acted in films before.

Terry Lipshetz: Right.

Bruce Miller: Found him at a school, and we're looking for somebody who kind of fit. Again, the hair was a big thing fit the identity that they were looking for. And they were blown away by how good he was at kind of capturing that attitude that's kind of there. And, you see it. He is easily the glue that holds this together and a really good young actor. I think someday we'll look back and we'll say that was his first film and look at how good he was.

Terry Lipshetz: This film is directed by Alexander Payne, and he's, of course, known for doing a lot of kind of quirky movies like Nebraska.

Bruce Miller: Yeah. Do you remember? Election was kind of the one that put him on the map, with Reese Witherspoon as that kind of dreadful girl who wanted to be student body know. She was determined. And the advisor to the student council, played by Matthew Roderick, did not want her to win and did whatever he could to try and derail her campaign by putting another student in her way. Chris Klein played that role. He shot it all in Omaha, which is where he's from. And it was very similar to this, where he went looking for real people to play these parts and look what happened to their careers. Reese Witherspoon, she won an Oscar. And Chris Klein had a long career. Look at American Pie. I mean, he has some pretty good credits behind. She wasn't necessarily, but the other ones that fill in the film. And if you go back and look at election, you'll see actor, young actors in that that have had lots of work.

Terry Lipshetz: Right.

Bruce Miller: It was supposed to be a two hander between Reese Witherspoon and, Matthew Broderick. And some of those other ones are making a real big splash in that first film. So I wouldn't doubt that we'll see the same thing happen with this one.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. And even like a movie like Sideways, there's another one where. And he did it with Paul Giamatti, and that was Paul Giamatti. He's done so many movies and he's always so good in what he does, but it almost took until sideways to really get him out there.

Bruce Miller: He was a great character actor who had bit parts or small parts in films and then suddenly blew up. And he was in John Adams and he was in, sideways. And. Yeah, now he's kind of your go to. If you want one of those kind of erudite people that are in your film, we'll call Paul.

Terry Lipshetz: I know you weren't able to get any interviews with this film, but through the magic of you and the promotion, I happen to have know just out of the box right here. So we're going to go now to, Alexander Payne, the director of the film.

Alexander Payne: Christmas break is upon us. And every year there's a number of boys with nowhere to know. The kids from foreign countries and the ones with divorced parents and stuff like that. And this year there's a boy, he's a junior and kind, of a troublemaker, kind of troubled. Damaged and troubled, but a smart kid underneath. And, his mother calls him last minute to say she's widowed, has been widowed. She has just remarried and they want to use this Christmas vacation as their honeymoon. You understand, don't you, darling? Stanley's been working so hard. The teacher selected this year to stay behind with the boys is a very disliked, curmudgeonly, ancient history teacher, Paul Giamatti. Through a kind of Deus ex machina, script, device, all the other boys find somewhere else to go at some point. And it's down to just this teacher played by Paul Giamatti and this boy and the head cook at the school. She's a single mom, and her, son attended this very same school on a charity scholarship. But did not have the wherewithal to go to college and has just been killed in Vietnam. So this movie is about the adventures of these three kind of shipwrecked people during a very snowy two weeks in Massachusetts in 1970. I've been an admirer of school, movies, loneliness of the long distance Runner and if and Peter Weir's movie. And I had seen a companion of those films, a somewhat underknown French film by a great director, but, from 1935 or 36 called Merloose by Marcel Panol. And it had that same basic premise. I saw that ten or twelve years ago and it never left me. I thought, you know, that's a pretty good premise for a film. But I personally didn't have the wherewithal to actually, I didn't have the life experience of a private school and so forth. I'm from Omaha. Nor did I have really the discipline to go research it. But a pilot came my way, set in a prep school, and it was a very fine pilot. And I called up the writer and said, thank you for sending me this wonderful script. I don't want to read it. Would you consider taking on an idea of mine? And so it was David Hemingson. That's how David Hemingson, the fine screenwriter, came into my life. So, typically I've written my own scripts and certainly I was involved in rewriting this one and conceiving it. But David Hemingson really, did an outstanding job writing it. That's what attracted me to it. It sounds hyperbolic and I'm sure it is, but I just think Paul Giamatti is the greatest actor. There's nothing he can't do. From the moment I first met him when he auditioned for sideways for me going on 20 years ago, I thought, this guy can make even bad dialogue work and he can, no matter what the dialogue. I had him in Omaha, for a public interview, and I said, you know, Paul Giamani, you can really make bad dialogue work. I'll bet you could even read the phone book. Like they say, read the phone book and make it compelling. And he laughed. And I leaned over and I pulled out the Omaha phone book and I handed it to him. I said, would you please just open up to a page? He started reading it and brought the house down. That's why I like Paul Giamatti. And he's just a lovely guy, brilliant guy, most well-read human I know and, a delight to work with.

Terry Lipshetz: Up next, let's hear from Da'Vine Joy Randolph about her role. In this film.

Da'Vine Joy Randolph: It's wonderful working with Paul Giamatti. He has such character as a human being, but also with what he brings to the table. And, he's so great because, know, when you work with actors, those who you really revere, for being so talented, can be very serious sometimes and stuffy. And, what is so amazing, and I think speaks even more to his talent is that he's able to snap in and out of the character. It's very seamless. But I love right before they say action, I'll peek a look, and you'll see him just, like, morph and fall into place into his character. Dominic is quite special, for having never done it before. I would say what's more impressive, even outside of his talent, which is quite natural and just very present, and non-stereotypical, I don't know if I could have done it to play this hurt, damaged teenager. Right. And it not just be this one dimensional screaming kid every 5 seconds. He's really found, the nuances, to all of it. But I would say what I'm the most impressed with is the human being that he is. He's so kind and gentle and, very intelligent. And there's an old soul about him where it feels as if he's been here before. You can tell there's a real desire to learn this industry and how things work, and he's very quick. I remember in the very beginning when we were just doing table reads, and we still had at least two, if not three weeks before filming, he was already off book. I was not off book, so I was very impressed. We're just seeing two, three individuals, which I wonder, if they weren't, under these circumstances, if they would have had the opportunity to really get to know one another and to be an unpredicted vessel of support for one another. And I think what's beautiful about that is, in this movie, in a way, it transcends ageism, racism, genDer, and that these three individuals, due to the loss and pain that they have, it's like sometimes when you've hit rock bottom, you're open to anything to seek relief wherever you can.

Terry Lipshetz: We also have another star from the film, Dominic Cessa, talking about what turned into his first major film appearance.

Dominic Sessa: I went in for my first audition, and, I was pretty relaxed because I wasn't expecting much out of it. And they called me back later that day, and I did some more reading. And, eventually Alexander came to my school to come meet me and audition, with him. And yeah, for the next two months it was a lot of just touch, and go email, Zoom calls and all that stuff. And by the time I had my last audition, I didn't know it was my last audition. I thought it was going to know do that two weeks later for the next one. But we sat there and it was me, Paul and Alexander on a Zoom call. And we just read the whole script through. And Paul would read the parts, know, in a scene where I was in, but he wasn't in. I would read parts for him in other scenes and by the end I got the role that day. So, yeah, it was really surreal and exciting and didn't really know what to think or what to expect. But, it was nice. The biggest challenge for me, working on a film for the first time would be, the turnaround on notes, personally, because I've done a lot of live theater before. It's all I've done before is the shows at my school. And we have after school, like two, three hour rehearsals. And you receive your notes at the end and you have your journal and you can go back to your room and internalize them and think about them for the next rehearsal or the show or whatever's coming. But in this, it's really a matter of coming in, knowing your lines and not really knowing. Maybe having an idea of how the scene may pan out, but not having the clarity that you might have in a theater setting. So, yeah, I mean, that was the hard, that's the hardest part for me, really doing this the first time doing something, receiving a note and then okay, rolling, go. So, yeah, for me, but I think I've adjusted pretty well to it. And obviously I have a lot of people around me who have been helping me prepare for that sort of thing. Being in a film with Alexander and working on one of his movies, it's incredible working with him personally. Having, the director who's sitting right there at the camera and sitting right next to you and comes up to you after every take and is in your ear. You can feel his presence and it's comforting in that sense. But I think. I don't know, outside of that, he just attracts a lot of professionalism to his movies and his work. I think, just him being a part of it. Everyone around him, sort of is extra professional and is extra hard at work and is really on top of it and more so excited about working on it because of the type of person he is. My character, Angus Tully, say, definitely very damaged kid. He’s been through a lot. Yeah. Being at a boarding school, I can understand, how heartbreaking that would be to be ready for break and then have your own parents tell you that you can't come home for Christmas. I feel like, for him, he's got a lot of these, things in the past that have happened to him and, these experiences, obviously, with his father and his mother and his mother's boyfriend. And it's not explicitly said what goes on. But you can sort of understand that there's a broken family dynamic there that's going on behind the scenes for him. And yeah, I think that really comes out with his character and his daringness to say some of the things he says and to pull off some of the things he tries to pull off. But at the same time charming and innocent. And it's one of those people you love to hate because you love them.

Terry Lipshetz: Up next, we have writer producer David Hemingson.

David Hemingson: Alexander read a pilot that I wrote about four years ago that, was set in a prep school in 1980. And he kind of called me up out of the blue and having read it and was like, I love this pilot. And I was like, incredibly flattered because he's like a personal hero of mine, he's a brilliant director. So I was like, blown away. And then he said, but I don't really do TV. But I have this feature I want to do that's set in that world in 1970. I said, okay, sure. And I said, what is he? Well, basically I really want to do this sort of optically challenged, kind of odiferous professor, that gets stuck, at a prep school, over Christmas break, 1970 to 71, with a group of students, one of whom has sort of been stranded by his family, most definitely. And this relationship kind of evolves over the course of the movie. And so that was sort of. The genesis of the whole thing. He's a brilliant, brilliant director. And I kind of feel like I went to film school on Alexander's back in that he would make these references. He'd, want something kind of tonally or visually or he'd kind of want a narrative moment that as opposed to try to unpack it verbally, he'd just be like, John Garfield. All right, Michael Curtis pointed overturn 1950, midpoint. Forward click. Like what? Hello? And I'd have to figure out, oh, okay. He wants sort of tonally, this kind of thing. He wants to be able to, evoke certain moods, and I think for him, it's got to be the organic evolution of the characters over the course of the narrative. And so I think the reason he doesn't get specific in terms of distinct turns he wants is because he wants me to find it and then for him to reflect upon it, I mean, that's been our working relationship, and I hope to God it continues for many, many decades to come, because I would kill to work with him again. I think he's a brilliant guy. We're so blessed. I mean, Alexander can cast. I mean, he topped the bottom. The actors in this show are amazing. I love my holders. I love all those kids. Those kids are all amazing, and funny and genuine and real. I think reality is sort of one of the hallmarks of an. You know, it just feels real, and it's heightened. And he takes you on a journey, and there's a fun narrative. I mean, you have a good time. And I think that's one of his imperatives. Like, he wants people to be entertained, but he wants people to be entertained by the human comedy, by the reality of it, by the landscape of people's souls. Like, he wants you to take that journey. And that's kind of what we do. In this movie, I think.

Terry Lipshetz: And now let's hear from producer Mark Johnson.

Mark Johnson: I think it was very much a story about family. It's a very clever script. It's deceptive. It’s deceptive. And then it's about much more than you would think at first. And it's also extremely funny. And for me, as a, time Alexander Payne Fan, I think it is arguably his most emotional movie to take what he does with his characters, sort of, the uniqueness of his characters and to put them in this situation, it was an undeniable script. Paul Giamatti is one of those wonderful actors, is really a chameleon. And he can play any number of people. So we've seen him a bunch of movies and television shows, but I don't know that I've ever seen Paul Giamatti play, the same character twice. And so he is somebody who can both put you off and yet bring you in at the same time. Dominic Cessa, who plays Angus. This is his first movie. He had been a drama student or in school, in boy school, but, didn't have an agent, didn't have a manager. We had this wonderful casting director, Susan Shopmaker, who decided to go out and find a discovery. And one of the smart places she went was the private boys school's drama department and say, all right, who do you have? Who do you offer up? And that's how Dominic came in. He didn't come in through any orthodox means. It was really from out of nowhere. And I don't know what the number is. She probably saw 600, 700 boys for this part. And Dominic, early on, we said, well, wait a minute. This is somebody to pay attention to. And Alexander put him through the paces. He had him, sort of try out and test a number of times. And finally he tested with Paul, Giamatti. And I think Alexander, Paul, all the rest of us said, no, this is the guy. I think Dominic's a good choice to play this part because he has no tricks. He's a very honest actor. He's playing it as honestly as he can. And consequently, he's completely believable. I never, in looking at the finished film and quite frankly, in all the dailies, I don't see any false moments. I don't see him at some point pretending to be something. He always seems to be that divine.

Mark Johnson: Joy Randolph is an actress who's been around for a while. That makes it sound like she's been doing it for years. She's just somebody who is doing features and television right now at, quite a clip. And the interesting thing is she normally plays a comedic character. And not that she's very funny in the holdovers, but I wouldn't describe her character as Mary, lamb, as somebody who's comedic. She actually has quite a, quite amount of sorrow in her. And, is a mother who's gone through a real tragedy. We knew she had the acting chops not just because she'd gone to the Yale School of drama. But as soon as we tested her, it was clear that she knew how to play this character. And, it was great to watch her because as an actress, she discovered who Mary Lamb was. She started at one place and built the character. And you could see her do it. And she ended up with an accent that was quite original to divine, but also quite true to where her character came from.

Terry Lipshetz: All right, Bruce. So we had an.

Bruce Miller: You know, I got a chance to talk to Alexander Payne and David Hemingson and also some of the, behind the scenes people about this. It's based sort of, on the writer's life, sort of. It was not written by Alexander Payne, just directed by him. And he kind of understood the sensibility of this, but there is a tie. And if you look at this on a shelf, there is a statue that was also in sideways. And so it's one of those little spoiler things. If you look, it's on a shelf in, I believe it's Paul Giamatti's office. And you'll also remember that it was in sideways if you look very carefully. They had one hell of a time trying to find enough blazers that were from the 70s for all the boys in the film.

Terry Lipshetz: Double knit only goes so far.

Bruce Miller: A big challenge. Yeah, they have a big challenge. And so they look the right way. Yeah. So for them, a lot of them have worked with Alexander Payne for a number of films, and they kind of know his shorthand and what he's looking for, so they can anticipate what a potential problem might be or what might be looming. Wow.

Terry Lipshetz: Good stuff. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to this. It wasn't really on my radar until I saw it was probably during the summer. One of the movies I saw at least had a trailer to it. It looked pretty interesting, but I wasn't sure. Is this going to be good? Isn't it? But now that you're singing its praises.

Bruce Miller: Watch the ads for it, because the ads are done in 70s style.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: See them? It's like, is this an old film that they're just throwing up whenever you see those on TCM? Oh, look at the trailers they used to do for these things. Well, they want it to look like that so it looks like the 70s. So you get that whole vibey feeling. And there's one shot in the film that reminds me. Exactly. Of the graduate. Exactly. And you'll see that shorthand that he uses, and you'll think, yes, I get what you're. Gail. I see it. I understand what's happening here. There's another one I'd like to talk about is called Nyad. Okay. And this is going to be one of those ones that you'll hear the names bandied about for acting prizes. Annette Benning plays Diana Nyad. If you remember her, she was a long distance swimmer who wanted to swim from Cuba to Florida. And, everybody said, oh, you're crazy. You can't do it. You're in your 60s. You're not going to be able to do this. And she was determined that she needed to make her mark, so she got a crew together and tried it and failed. And she tried it again and failed. And she tried it again and failed. And you think after this many times, give up. It's not going to happen. But you see in the film, which will be on Netflix, the kind of drive and fortitude she had and determination, and a lot of that is fueled by her best friend, who serves as kind of the coach, so that she's in the boat while Diana is swimming by the side of the boat, and she's, like, feeding her, giving her any kind of, if she gets sick, if she needs medicine, hydrating her, and then when she starts to kind of wane, she's giving her those pep talks. And, Jodie Foster plays that role, and Jodie is. Where has she been all these years? It's like, let's get back to work. I want to give her that kind of a pep talk because she steals the film right out from underneath. Annette Benning. Fascinating, fascinating partnership. And the film was directed by the people behind Free Solo, if you remember free solo. it was about the mountain climber.

Terry Lipshetz: Right.

Bruce Miller: Won the Oscar for Best documentary. Yeah. Now, they're trying, the same kind of feel, but with a fictional film or dramatization. Yeah. With actors. And they do take, risks, and they also do take some liberties, with the reality of the Diana Nyad story, but they still are able to capture those beats that you're looking for. It's kind of fascinating to see how they can make swimming really interesting, because when you're just watching somebody swim laps near the side of a boat, are you interested? Do you care? You got to give it to Ned Benning for just being able to do the swimming that you need to do to pretend like you're falling. Diana, Nyad, is not a person that you could hug. I really do not think she's embraceable, even though she has that drive that you see in a lot of athletes. But, boy, Annette Benning captures that aspect really well. You think, why would I work with you? I don't want to do anything with you if you're going to be this kind of obnoxious and mean and kind of self-centered.

Terry Lipshetz: Sure.

Bruce Miller: And yet it works. And at the end of the film, they do show you actual footage, of her. And, man, she captures her. She's right there.

Terry Lipshetz: Now, was this film mostly in the water, then?

Bruce Miller: If there's a lot in the water, could it be in a pool? It could have been in a pool, because a lot of the scenes take place at night, and you realize that they had to worry about sharks because she did not want to be in a shark cage. She didn't feel that was bare. But there was a red light that apparently sharks know this for the future, if you need this.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: Sharks do not come near red light. They somehow see that as a warning to them. And so this red light kind of helped guide her along where they were going, but it also kept the, sharks away.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. The most knowledge I have about avoiding sharks comes from the 1960s, Adam west classic Batman, the movie Shark, where he used Bad shark repellent.

Bruce Miller: And Jaws.

Terry Lipshetz: Yes.

Bruce Miller: Jaws taught us so much about sharks. Were you really scared of sharks before Jaws? No, it was just another fish in the ocean. But now they can get a sharknado going like nobody's business. Right?

Dominic Sessa: Yeah.

Terry Lipshetz: Now, how does this film stack up to a film like Free Solo, which is a documentary? Because I always find it fascinating when you get, like, you take Peter Jackson, for instance, who's known for Lord of the Rings and all these big epics, and then he goes and directs a documentary about the Beatles.

Bruce Miller: The thing that was so surprising about free solo was the cinematography. They were up on the mountains with him and the idea that they were able to get some of that stuff. Well, I got to rethink this. If I can't do it with the telephoto lens, I don't think I'm going up there. But I think that was what was so remarkable. Yes. his story, Alex Honnold, I think it is, his story is remarkable, but also remarkable is the idea that people would follow him, shoot his trek, and not get, you know, anytime.

Terry Lipshetz: I see those mountain movies like that, whether it's mountain climbing or scaling Everest or going deep into the wilderness, I'm thinking to myself, you know, what if I'm the director of this film, my first hire is a really good second unit director. And you're going to go take care of these? I'm going to just handle.

Bruce Miller: Yeah, I'll do from the ground.

Terry Lipshetz: We'll be.

Bruce Miller: Yeah, I think they do a great job of kind of making you feel that claustrophobia in the water. But because they're not dealing with huge visuals like they were before, that becomes, a different challenge. But you feel like you're in the water with her. So I guess that's the goal. But I don't know, do they want to do this? Is this the goal? Or maybe it was just one of those athlete films that they hadn't tried, and so that was the challenge for them.

Terry Lipshetz: Well, it sounds good. It sounds like an interesting one. I'm not sure. I'm going to race out to the theaters to see it. But at the very least, it might be one where as soon as it hits streaming on. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Anything else of note coming up is,

Bruce Miller: Can I tell you what I'm going to tease? What? Maybe we'll talk about next week.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: And that's Fargo.

Terry Lipshetz: Oh, yes.

Bruce Miller: Fargo is coming. And Fargo, we are not holding off with anything, but I'm going to talk to people that you wouldn't necessarily talk to again. We're doing this because we don't have the access to the actors because of the actor strike, which, knock on wood, should be ending soon, we hope.

Terry Lipshetz: Please.

Bruce Miller: But I'm hoping to talk to the special effects and makeup people and also the costume people and how they are able to pull off, because this has a lot of those special effects that you're going to go, wow, I can't believe it. And it's very home alone, taken to extremes and scary. Okay, so that's next week. Fargo.

Alexander Payne: Fargo.

Terry Lipshetz: I can't wait. There's the two shows that I've been waiting for the most recently, Fargo. And then also true Detective, which is. Coming back soon on.

Bruce Miller: Well, we'll be there, hopefully, and we'll get to talk to real people.

Terry Lipshetz: Hopefully. That's all we can hope for. All right, Bruce, thanks again for another great episode. And we will be back again next week.

Bruce Miller: Be a holdover next week.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Taylor Sheridan is the actor and director who has probably become best know as the co-creator of the epic Paramount Network series "Yellowstone" and its prequels "1883" and "1923."

His newest project is serving as executive producer for "Lawmen: Bass Reeves," a Paramount+ anthology series that launches Nov. 5 that feels like it should be part of the "Yellowstone" arc but is separate entity. "Lawmen: Bass Reeves" is a passion project of star David Oyelowo, who takes on the title role, and tells the story of the first Black U.S. Marshal, Bass Reeves.

The show also stars Donald Sutherland, Dennis Quaid, Lauren E. Banks and Demi Singleton.

In this week's episode, co-host Bruce Miller has interviews with showrunner Chad Feehan and Damian Marcano, one of the directors.

Where to watch and more coverage

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We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Terry Lipshetz: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Streamed & Screened, an entertainment podcasts about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises, I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program. Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter. Well, howdy, partner. I reckon we have a show set in the wild, Wild West we're going to be talking about this week.

Bruce Miller: I'm, fixing to come in here anytime now. And can you put me two fingers of whiskey on the counter? And we should be fine.

Terry Lipshetz: I got my can of beans heating.

Bruce Miller: Up over the open flame now. It sounds like Blazing Saddles. I think we've done.

Terry Lipshetz: We have, yeah. All right.

Bruce Miller: Yeah.

'Lawmen: Bass Reeves' is an epic miniseries

Bruce Miller: It's Western week because there's this huge miniseries, and I'm not kidding you, it is, a grand effort called Lawmen, M-E-N Bass Reeves. So you go lawmen. There's only one. What's the deal? And what this is hopefully going to be is a series of profiles of various and sundry law men over the course of time. But Bass Reeves was a kind of a passion of David O. Yellowo, the star of the limited series. And he had always wanted to do this story because he thought it was so rare. He's the first black deputy US. Marshal west of the you, know, is there one east of the Mississippi? I have no. But it's a fascinating look at this man and his standards. It really is a lot know, what he does is what he thinks is right, and right becomes the driving force behind all of this. And you see Bass in a lot of situations. It is epic. An epic, epic limited, series. There are huge battle scenes. There are huge kind of roundups. There's a lot of violence. I'm giving you that right away. There's a lot of violence in this thing. And there's a lot of intimate moments where you see him one on one with his family, with others, with people that used to be in charge of his life. And it's a fascinating look at a period that I really didn't realize I needed to know more of. I thought most of these stories were already told, but Bass Reeves story is one that's been out there for years that people have wanted to do, but nobody has gotten the ability to do it. And what we learned is that it took, you know, when you've got somebody behind Yellowstone, saying, yeah, I think we should do this, they suddenly pop too, and decide that they're going to do it, too.

People were wrongly saying that this was another 'Yellowstone' series

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. Now, I have a question for you about that, because I saw Taylor Sheridan is an executive producer, and I saw this show. It is coming to Paramount Plus. But this is not part of the Yellowstone universe. Correct.

Bruce Miller: No, there was talk, and I think you'll see when we play the interviews, that there is a connection or was a connection and they couldn't make it, the time frame was wrong. And so people were wrongly saying that this was another Yellowstone series. It's not okay. It has a vague time reference, kind of lap over with 1883, but that's as close as it comes. It's a standalone thing that just happens to come from that factory known as Taylor Sheridan, but his name is on it. He isn't necessarily the writer of this, he isn't necessarily the director of this, but he is an executive producer. So he's kind of a mentor that helps get this done.

Terry Lipshetz: So he's a cog in the wheels here. He's helping getting this thing going.

Bruce Miller: You know, he looked at all the scripts and, you know, he saw the film and he says, yeah, we should do this or we should do that. I think the most telling thing was they would throw out ideas and there was money for it. a lot of times when you do these big westerns, they're not cheap to do because there are so many other things that progress has gotten in the way of shooting a good Western these days. And so you either have to build the community or you have to find towns that were relatively untouched, so you could just cover up some of the things that are there. But, yeah, it was expensive film to make, and I think it shows when you look at it on the screen, you go, wow, this isn't just we're not closing in on two people and looking very tightly at what's going on.

Terry Lipshetz: And there's some big names attached to this also. I saw this.

Bruce Miller: Yeah, there are big names that are kind of like, Sam Elliott. They're kind of the bait that'll get you in to look at this. But there's another story there that's much bigger than what their stories are.

Terry Lipshetz: Sure. But it's also, with all of these, even though it's not a Yellowstone project, the one piece that all of those Yellowstone programs had or know, because they're still on is they have like, your Kevin Costner or Harrison Ford or somebody that has a name and is pulling you in. So there's definitely this isn't some no name project of people.

Bruce Miller: David Oyelowo, you may remember him from Selma. He played Martin Luther Jr. And, I put him in the same league as Chadwick Boseman, where he is somebody who can play just about everything, but doesn't always get the opportunity. And you can see why he would spend eight years trying to get this thing made, because it does tell a story that we, don't know, we haven't heard, and he gets a great acting part. Now, some of the things I would have protested, I would have said, do we need to do this? Do I need to be dragged through fire? And do I need to have somebody beat me up? And should we really have to mess with all those animals, but he wanted it to be as realistic as it could be. So he was willing to do just about anything to make sure that it came through to the audience. Because he doesn't think that it's a story about it isn't a historic story, necessarily, as much as it is story about a person's inner self and what they're really like.

Terry Lipshetz: Got it. I, saw the trailer even before you had mentioned that this was coming up and you had some interviews tied to just I was watching something and the trailer popped up for the show and I was like, whoa, I need to subscribe to Paramount Plus. Because, first of all, I've never seen any of the Yellowstone programs because it's just again, and we've talked about this with like Apple TV Plus and a few others where I'll just kind of come and go and pick my battles because I just can't have 35 different subscriptions. But I feel like between this program and then maybe going back and watching some of those Yellowstone programs, this is what's going to push me over the edge to finally subscribe.

Bruce Miller: Yellowstone is being run or rerun on CBS now, so you will be able to see those without having to pay extra. But this is definitely a Paramount Plus project and so I don't think we're going to see that slip over. So spend the bucks. Go for it.

Terry Lipshetz: Have you been able to watch any, did you get any screeners?

Bruce Miller: The first three of it? I saw the first three, yeah. And it sets up the story and you see how he gets his freedom and what he does with it and where he goes from there. And then they offer him this job, this job of being a deputy marshal. And then you see how he interacts with the Native Americans or the natives and how he can speak their languages. And, he becomes a very valuable asset to be able to find out what's going on in this part of the world.

Terry Lipshetz: How does this stack up with other kind of recent Westerns, either movies or TV shows that you've seen? Because I'm always fascinated by Westerns as a genre, especially. I'm not even talking about the old ones with John Wayne, but I'm m even talking about just the new ones because I feel like this planet, it's expanding so much that it's so hard now to film anything because you make a left, you make a right, and you're running into civilization. So does it feel like you're back out in the west?

Bruce Miller: Oh, most definitely, because it looks so great. The visuals are just spot on in all these places. You sense what they valued at that time. And what, matters is there's a scene in there where this one woman I don't want to detail too much of it for you because I don't want to spoil it, but she really wants a piano. and you can see how we've changed. And we don't realize what something which seems simple becomes this huge deal for them. So, yeah, there are many kind of flashpoint moments where you go, okay, I get it. What happened was Star Wars came in to play and started doing westerns. Basically, they're Westerns, right?

Terry Lipshetz: Space westerns.

Bruce Miller: So that's where they think we got to spend all of our time and our money is making more space epics. But really, do we need more of those? And I know you love them, so forgive me, but this is just a way of telling those same kinds of stories but in a different period. And maybe we're able to, approach some of their lessons a little better because we see that it's removed from us, but then you realize we're not that far away from what they're talking about.

Terry Lipshetz: I really feel like I'm definitely going to go ahead and watch this, because the genre, just in general, I love it. Deadwood on HBO was one of my favorite series of all time. and I did like that movie that came out a couple of years ago. It was about ten years after the TV series, and it sort of tied up the loose ends that they couldn't quite get to before the show went off the air. But this past summer, we made a trip out to the Badlands, and I did insist that we do a day trip to we were we went to downtown Deadwood, and we're checking out all the modernized old timey places that were named after characters on the show because griswold yeah.

Bruce Miller: Did you go to the graves and.

Terry Lipshetz: Look at all that or we went, and it was kind of interesting. the grave for Wild Bill Hickok and Calamity Jane, they're right next to each other, not too far into the main cemetery in town, which is up on a hill. So we had to drive up this really tall hill. But then I also want to see the grave for Seth Bullock, who is kind of the marshal of the town and kind of the first lawmen. And they're like, well, it's up around the corner. So we all start walking up the hill and it's like, not part of the cemetery, so it's like part of the old cemetery. So we're walking, walking, walking. And then this family is coming down and they're like, you going up to see Seth Bullock? And we're like, yeah, how bad is it? And they're laughing, it's not that bad. So my wife and one of my daughters kind of just sat down there and then my other daughter and we we trekked up to the top and saw it and caught our breath.

Bruce Miller: So the Von, traps worked up the mountain. Is that the deal you were I.

Terry Lipshetz: Did make it up to the top. It was a spectacular view of Deadwood from the top of that hill. But yeah, it was a bit of a hike to the top.

Bruce Miller: Did you go down then and gamble at Morningstar?

Terry Lipshetz: No, we had the kids and those places are all 18 plus. But it was fascinating. There was one place in town which did, a brothel tour, and you had to be 16 to go in.

Bruce Miller: So we sound like, I know this.

Terry Lipshetz: We didn't go in because my daughters are under 16 and just didn't feel as appropriate anyway. But, I found it fascinating because they had a sign outside the place. And the brothel was formed in 1870 something. And it didn't get shut down until 1980. 1980? Wow.

Bruce Miller: This is like the Bunny Ranch outside of Vegas.

Terry Lipshetz: Yes, exactly. Yeah.

Bruce Miller: It's amazing how they really are good at capturing a piece of time. When you go out to the Badlands, it's really OOH. Is this really what it was like? And yes, it was. And it's, the land that Time forgot. You can just go there and feel like you're back in the Old West.

Terry Lipshetz: It was fun. It was fun. It was a good time.

Chad Feehan is the showrunner behind ‘Bass Reeves’

Terry Lipshetz: So you had a couple interviews here. the first one up was, Chad Feehan. Right?

Bruce Miller: Chad is the writer, the showrunner, and the executive producer behind Bass Reeves. And he was the one who sat down with David and kind of picked his brain. And then they did the research on how are we going to tell this story? Is it going to be a movie? That was initially the thought is it be a movie, a standalone movie. And he is there throughout the whole run of this. And he got a chance to do things that maybe he has never done before. It's so big. He said he has never had a project that sweeping. Yeah. So, he's the showrunner, the person behind every episode of the film. And he was the one who helped David get this off the ground and find the point of all of it.

Bruce Miller: Well, what is it like not having David around during this kind of the selling of the show when it's his passion project, for God's sakes?

Chad Feehan: I am, the reluctant spokesman, because this is his show, and he's been pursuing it for eight years. And it truthfully breaks my heart that he's not here, with me, leading the charge, to communicate all of his passion for the story.

Bruce Miller: How did he involve you in that? Mean, I'm sure that Bass reads was not one that you would I've got to, I've got to write this. Until somebody sparked it in you right.

Chad Feehan: Yeah. I mean, I grew up in Texas. I grew up in Fort Worth, Texas. And I heard stories about Bass as a kid. but they were sort of this mythical Glenn Sling and lawman. And it did embed itself in my consciousness, so I was aware of it. and then Taylor, who I've orbited around for years, recommended me to David. And David invited me to dinner. And I anticipated that dinner lasting an hour, an hour and a half, and it lasted 4 hours. and first and foremost, we developed sort of an immediate kinship, that has developed into a very special friendship that I think will last for the rest of our lives. But we also gravitated toward the same things that we wanted to communicate to an audience the triumph of the human spirit, the universality of the human condition. and then he was able to educate me on where fact and fiction converged with separated from the reality of who Bass Reeves was as a man.

Bruce Miller: How much of it is factual? Is it 90%, 75%?

Chad Feehan: It's hard to answer with a percentage. what I would say is that there are these similar moments we know about Bass's life that we use as pillars for the foundation of our story. but it's impossible to know, for example, what he experienced right before or right after the moment he was sworn in as a Deputy US. Marshal. We have the transcript of him being sworn in, but we don't know what happened before and we don't know what happened after. So our job as storytellers, was to imagine and create the most compelling narrative that we could.

Bruce Miller: How difficult was it to conjure this world? Is it difficult? Or do you just get outside and you start thinking, this must be what it's like? Or how do you handle that?

Chad Feehan: I had, the benefit of having grown up where I grew up, so the language was easier for me to wrap my head around. we had this great source material that provided an, excellent launching pad. And then I had amazing collaborators, wide array of voices, from a wide array of backgrounds, writers, to, I mean, Wyn Thomas, our production designer, that really educated me on the things I didn't know and didn't understand and helped guide me through that process.

Bruce Miller: So does David ever say no, I'm not doing that. Does he have that kind, of I can put up a barrier here because I know more about this. This is mine.

Chad Feehan: That is, antithetical to who David Oyelowo is. if I could use one word to embody him, it would be grace. so he's incredibly giving, graceful, compassionate. If there was something that he was unsure about, it would always be a conversation. And he would never say, no, I can't do that.

Bruce Miller: He would say, you put him through a lot of stuff.

Chad Feehan: Yeah. His commitment to his craft is incredible.

Bruce Miller: Yeah. then, ah, being as broad as this is, I did not believe that you could have all those animals, truthfully, the buffalo, all that stuff. Do you say, I want this, and then it just happens? Or how do you make sure that it's that big that kind of lavish.

Chad Feehan: I was shocked. This is by far the biggest thing I've ever done and the hardest production I've ever been through. But I would ask the opening Civil War battle, I'd be like, Are you sure I can write this? And to Paramount and 100 and one's credit, the answer was always yes. we'll find a way, we'll figure it out. Write the best story you can write. and I've shied away from that earlier on in my career, and I'm glad that I asked the questions and was given the authority to chase those epic.

Bruce Miller: As a writer, that must be really, a, disconnect, because you're used to them having somebody saying, rein it in a little bit. We can't be spending this much money, and this looks like the sky's the limit.

Chad Feehan: Yeah. Paramount 101. Very gracious, Taylor. That's the power of Taylor Sheridan. As, know, we didn't get every single thing. We know nothing in life works that way. but we got the majority of what we wanted, and the support that we had, was incredible.

Bruce Miller: When it's labeled lawmen, that suggests that there are more have you already started thinking about the more and what that would be?

Chad Feehan: I have a few different, historical figures that I'm interested in that I think are worthy of following in the footsteps of Bass Reeves. I don't know who it will be, and I'm not, going to speculate on who it will be, because we have to talk to the studio and the network. but I'm excited about the prospect of doing another, because this does fall.

Bruce Miller: During the same time period as 1883, would there ever have been any kind of crossover or connection or not?

Chad Feehan: Yeah, we briefly talked about it, and then when I sort of figured out that our story took place from roughly 1862 to 1877, and then also with the knowledge that Bass Reeves operated primarily in Indian territory, it didn't seem, organic to try to make that connection. But we had those conversations, and I was given the opportunity to make that connection if it serviced the story.

Bruce Miller: So how does Bass change you personally as a writer?

Chad Feehan: I was just talking about, know, the thing about the universality of the human condition was the thing that I wanted to really, really communicate to our audience. And it's something that I've intellectualized for a very long time, but now I feel like it's become part of my DNA based on the experience of I've made this show, and I hope to continue that in future, endeavors that I pursue.

Bruce Miller: Ah, that's so great. Well, thank you so much, and thank you. Congratulations. And when you see David, tell him congratulations.

Chad Feehan: I will. Thank you so much.

Damian Marcano directs three episodes of ‘Bass Reeves’

Terry Lipshetz: All right, Bruce, thanks for that interview. And then you had one other with, Damian Marcano, and here's the deal with that.

Bruce Miller: Is that they had to have more than one director for these because they were shooting and you'll hear this, they were shooting episodes simultaneously. So in the morning they would do one episode, in the afternoon they'd do another. So the first three episodes are directed by one person. And then Damian took over four, five, and, there are eight altogether. And, you'll see that it was just a lot of work. And he was not familiar with the Western world either. He calls himself a Rasta director because he's not from Texas. He doesn't have that shorthand that the others might have. But he also know everything is just so fast paced. And so who knows what based on the weather. You have to be willing to adapt very quickly.

Bruce Miller: What is this like to be part of somebody's passion project? Is that hard to kind of fit in there, or how do you view it?

Damian Marcano: No, man. Easy for me to fit in everywhere. I'm a roster man. So, we always find our beat in the whole thing, man.

Bruce Miller: Do you talk with David? And now what do you want to do with this? What are you looking to do? And what do you want people to learn from this?

Damian Marcano: well, my style of directing is let's go do it and get it wrong. So I never ask questions ahead of time. I just say, let's just go. and then some way and somewhere through because even the actor who is so well rehearsed at this point, it is something when you're actually doing it against your scene partner. And then your scene partner might give you a new little ingredient. And then that's when the discussions happen on set. So we may have locked into a master or a way that we like this set, or a way that we're finding our way into this part of the story. and then once we do that, we say, well, okay, now it's time to sort of make the music right? And for know, the music is the silence in between the notes. and when you work with someone as far as David, and you also put the supporting cast around David, as they have brilliantly done in this show, it just gets scene after scene that you're like, can it get better?

Bruce Miller: But you're also dealing with some, real variables, like animals. How do you plan for that?

Damian Marcano: You don't. yeah, animals are easy. The weather is the tough part.

Bruce Miller: Weather.

Damian Marcano: Yeah. We have probably some of the best animal handlers that I haven't had to work with this many animals in my career. Right. So I think this definitely makes them the best. I remember seeing everything from a camel, to a lynx cat that was brought in for one of my episodes. yeah, if the script called for it, we went out, we found it. but like I said, there was the Texas of it. So being there for my portion of this show, which was five and a half to six months, just to film three episodes, that's to tell you the detail, that we went in multiple visits to every location. I mean, we rebuilt a city at one point, and still Texas would still say, not today. I'm going to give you some golf ball sized hail today. Tomorrow there's going to be an actual tornado. and maybe you can shoot that on Thursday. So, you had to lean into your optimistic side on this shoot to figure out on days, and that's with very much respect to our Ad department, they would sort of have to go on the fly. Like, call sheet would be sent out the night before, this is what we're shooting. Not anymore. and that was sort of the only way we got through this. The nice thing about it, however, through it all, you get to watch these brilliant dailies that you work on from time to time, and you say, you know what? I got it. Because if this all comes and cuts together, well, we got something, because we have some pretty special people here, and we have done a great job of capturing it.

Bruce Miller: When you get three episodes in a row, it must be like doing a, large film, right?

Damian Marcano: It is.

Bruce Miller: So then what do you do with the first three? Do you talk to Christina and say, okay, what are you planning here?

Damian Marcano: So that I well, we were shooting them simultaneously. so it's really hard on our talent, because in the morning, David is playing one version of Bass, and in the afternoon, it might be twelve years later. All right? So that is the difficulty of it. That is why so much credit has to be given to the Ad department, because those are our eyes and ears, right? They tell us what we can, and they have way much more of a finger on what each department is prepared for and what they can actually do that meets the level of quality that we've been mailing in. So this was a six month affair of just non stop shooting. and we would shoot what we could, when we could. sometimes it was based on the location being ready. Had we built the location, if this called for, the bywater store out in the middle of nowhere, had we built the bywater store in the middle of nowhere, and Wynn Thomas, our production designer, there were just so many talented people that I could look around and see that we had on this project.

Bruce Miller: The sets look like actual buildings. They look like ones that you would see in a historic setting.

Damian Marcano: They were this was not the example of going over to one of our large studios, that we have in town and saying, oh, you see that backdrop, sort of like the older version of the Western, right, where just the front of the facade was sort of painted. No. There was a set that we had in Strawn, Texas, in which we obviously could not get rid of Strawn's Bank, and the actual bank was there. So we built our set on their main intersection. I remember a day I was there location scouting and just talking with my DPS to how we do something. And an actual person from Strawn, Texas, had just walked out from cashing her check. And she stopped and looked at us, and then we stopped and looked at her, and we're here's. And it was just everything. It was everything colliding. It was, here she is in this small town, and Hollywood's coming town, but on top of that, here we are, making this thing back to its glory. Know?

Bruce Miller: Wow. Were you familiar with Bass Reeves?

Damian Marcano: Not before doing the project. I couldn't tell you who Bass Reeves was before I did this. I fell in love with a script about a man that was one of the only black men with a gun and a badge at the time. And just the oddities of doing that job while following some type of creed, some kind of mantra, whatever you will, as to how he just wouldn't stop doing that job, and his faith, what he thought, how it would affect his family. All of those things for me, were just like, okay, history is usually depicted from this wide lens way back. We say something happened to a group of people, something happened to another group, and this group was bad. This group, this was like 4D history. So this was like, this actually happened and this is how it happened. And there's no definite answer. So you, as, the viewer in 2023, can make your own mind up.

Bruce Miller: That's a great way of viewing it then. Are there more after this run? How far do we get his life?

Damian Marcano: well, I do know this first season of Lawmen is anthology series, so I think the other iterations will cover other, does. I'm not sure I couldn't tell you the specificity of how many years this is in Bass's life, but I do know Chad and the team tried to encompass as much of the story as you could know. Essentially, we've made, ah, eight hour film here that we're just cutting up, into episodics.

Bruce Miller: Well, it looks like a million bucks, so Westerns must be you. I think they're your thing.

Damian Marcano: I would have never thought that growing up, man. But they have become pretty special to me. And I am seriously I don't know, I'm having like this weird missing feeling of Texas, man, because as a creative, it was just really nice to be able we do so much stage work and all the stuff's great, and all our production designers are great, but it was just something to see your entire film. Crew kind of be like childlike again. And we were just all with our boots on out in those fields and Random Cow was doing something over there. And I don't know, it was just a bunch of kids that came together to play.

Bruce Miller: Again, thank you so much. It's great.

Damian Marcano: Thank you.

Bruce Miller: Have a good one.

Chad Feehan: You too.

Damian Marcano: Thanks for the time.

Terry Lipshetz: All right, Bruce, thank you for those two great interviews. As I said, it sounds like a real fascinating program and something that is going to probably push me over the edge to get Paramount.

Bruce Miller: Plus now, November 5, mark it on your calendar that's when they start. You'll get episodes the first night and then it will spill out beyond that.

Terry Lipshetz: Excellent. Excellent.

Movies need two weeks of theater exposure before they're considered Oscar potential

Terry Lipshetz: So what do we have on tap next week?

Bruce Miller: Oh, we're starting to get into that Oscar season now. All those kind of films that you start kicking yourself and saying, how come they have them all, all those good ones right at once. Well, they're starting you're going to start seeing the Oscar beta, as I like to refer to it. The Holdovers had a sneak last night or this last weekend, and it'll be coming out in November. And that's the one with Paul Giamatti, directed by Alexander Payne and set in the 1970s. And we'll talk about that. NIAD is the story of Diana Nayad and how she tried to swim 100 and some miles off Florida from Cuba, right?

Terry Lipshetz: It was Cuba to Florida.

Bruce Miller: And that's coming up. So there are a whole bunch of these ones that are just lining up, waiting to get into theaters. They have to have two weeks of theater exposure before they can be considered an Oscar potential film. They changed the rules this year so that it wasn't just that's on streaming. It's okay. They need to have this window of opportunity that they're in theaters before they can be officially considered, a candidate for the Academy Awards. So, as a result, they're getting a little better at showcasing them in theaters before the end of the year. in years past, it was usually Los Angeles and New York, and they had a week there or something. Now the rest of the world is actually getting to see these films before January, February, March, whatever it might be.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah, I was going to say because there was a period of time where it was almost like you would come out and it would be, as you said, New York, La. And you might get a couple of these art house theaters around that might get it over a course of a weekend, a long weekend, and then they'd be gone until you maybe caught it on, a red box or streaming or something.

Bruce Miller: Now everybody gets a chance to kind of play the Oscar game where we all can see those films that you always go, what was that one? And now we get an opportunity to.

Terry Lipshetz: See know, I feel like if you want to be considered for an Oscar, you have to be in a movie theater for the masses for at least a period of time, as you said. Is it two weeks? If that's the bare minimum, I think that's fine. You got to be able to get out there. You got to go into theaters. You got to allow for people to go in and see you on that giant screen with the giant bucket of popcorn just because it doesn't feel right otherwise.

Bruce Miller: Well, I think when you watch it on TV, it does diminish it right. As big as your screen might be at home, it's not the same. And if you can hold an audience on a theater, screen, then that must say something about your film. But when it's reduced to the size of a TV set, I don't know if it's there, but did you get to Killers of the Flower Moon?

Terry Lipshetz: Not Harry.

Bruce Miller: That's one of the ones we've got to see, because I know it's figuring in the, I've already started to make lists of who could possibly be nominated for each of the categories.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay.

Bruce Miller: That figures in a lot.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay. Yeah, I got to get there. It's gotten a lot tougher of late just because the kids activities ah. Have increased. I'm coaching basketball again.

Bruce Miller: Don't blame the kids for this. This is not their problem. This is your problem.

Terry Lipshetz: It is. I'm just deflecting you put that down.

Bruce Miller: On your list that you're going to go see the, Killers to the Flower Moon, and you're going to subscribe to Paramount plus I am.

Bruce: How big exactly is your TV?Bruce: 60 inches

Terry Lipshetz: Bruce, one other thing before we depart here. We've never had this conversation before, and it is a little bit personal, but how big exactly is your TV?

Bruce Miller: It's not that big. No, it's not big. It's 60 inches.

Terry Lipshetz: 60? That's it? Yeah, I'm 65.

Bruce Miller: Oh, well, see, I'm used to watching most things on a laptop. That's how they send it. You can't always transfer, it to your TV set.

Terry Lipshetz: All you need is that HTM. I need to be your technical support. Bruce, I will come to your house because I can get it from your computer on your laptop onto running on you. Okay.

Bruce Miller: The door is open. I will bring snacks. We'll be good. You can watch anything you want to see because I think I probably have it around the house somewhere.

Terry Lipshetz: On that note, thank you again for listening to this week's episode, and we will see you again next week on another episode of streamed and screened.

Bruce Miller: So long, partner. Bye.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's usually a busy time for television programming, but the ongoing actors strike has continued to slow things down. Yes, late night talk shows have resumed. And sure, "Saturday Night Live" is back on the air. 

But unless programming was completed and ready to go, there is not much else besides sports and some unscripted shows that don't need actors. And when there are shows to promote, the stars can't speak with media.

But there are a few cases where celebrities can talk. Take Sting, legendary musician and frontman for The Police. He is out promoting "Message in a Bottle," which is coming to PBS and features his music. Tennis legend Billie Jean King is also talking about her projects, along with pickleball. 

So the co-hosts talk about that limited programming, the movie theater as an event and the state of the strike. And they look ahead to next week's episode where they will discuss "Lawmen: Bass Reeves," which is coming soon to Paramount+.

Where to watch and more coverage

Contact us!

We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Terry Lipshetz: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Streamed and Screened and entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises, I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal, longtime entertainment reporter. And I suspect he's bringing us a little message in the bottle this week. What do you say about that?

Bruce Miller: Message in the bottle? Yes, our dear friend Sting. But, I got to tell you, this is the strangest time. We talk about the actors striking and they're not working, and everybody's worried about that. We're not getting content. But there also is a whole other area that's being ignored, and that's the selling of all these shows. We don't get those actors doing interviews about the product that they do have out there, because that's part of the deal with the guild, is that you are not going to promote something that will bring money into the producers until they settle this strike. So, as a result, they don't offer up, actors to me to interview like they have in the past. It'll be people like producers, directors, costume designers, a whole raft of people that you probably don't hear from, which is great. It's interesting. It's a new wrinkle in all of this. But it does hurt some of those people who have spent a long time working on something. David Oyelowo has been trying to get a passion project about Bass Reeves done for eight years. And he got the money from Taylor Sheridan, the Yellowstone producer who's behind all of this. And no, it is not connected with any of the Yellowstone series. People, want to say that it's 1883, it's tied in, it's not. But he got his support in this. They hired a writer. They have other directors and producers and people behind it. And he is kind of the galvanizing force behind this whole thing. And now, because they're selling this, this is coming out the early part of November, he can't say anything, which I just isn't that just disheartening here? You your life working on this, and then others have to talk about it for you. And all those people are very open and generous about giving him credit for what he did and what he wants to say with this. It has a very special message. But this is like down the line. You are seeing different series like this where they'll offer up people to talk to you. There's a movie, coming out limited, this month, and then wide in November, the, Holdovers It stars Paul Giamatti and Da'Vine Joy Randolph, and it's directed by Alexander Payne. And this is going to be a big Oscar contender. The actors, they're not talking, they're not able to say anything about this. But again, that's one of those says, you know, it just kills me that I can't talk with them here and they can hear all these things because they're not available to promote the film. And so I think that's one of the things we don't think know. You see Entertainment Tonight on TV at night, and they're raving about something, or Taylor Swift is running around and she's doing things know Travis Kelsey. And it looks like things are normal, and, they're not. But what that also does do is open the door for other people to get a little attention. And one of the ones I did get to talk to was, yeah, it's, a dance show called Message in a Bottle. It's based on his music. Sting, in case you didn't know, did not want to have a Jukebox musical written about his music. He thinks that's a dumb idea. It's a horrible idea. And if anybody suggested that, he'd just say, no, I'm not going to be a part of that. But they asked him if they could use his music for a dance show in London. And they would tell a story through dance with him singing in the background. It would be his voice over this overarching story that's all told in dance. And he thought, you know, that's an idea that sounds interesting. And they did a couple of numbers, pitched it to him and showed it to him. And he said, I'm in this I could do, because it's nothing I considered. It's not like all these other shows. It's something new and different. And for him, it was, a very moving experience. He said, I cried when I saw it the first time. Just me. And then he said, when I saw it with an audience, I cried again because I saw how emotional it was for them. But so, as a result, we're getting to talk to people like Sting. Come on, that's not bad, because he's not directly involved in it as a participant. Yes, they use his, Voicing tracks over this. But he's not sitting there singing. He's not a performer. He's, a subject of this. And then Billie Jean King has a series where she pairs up women in sports to talk about the struggle that they've had. And I got to talk to Billie Jean King. And that was fun. That's on PBS as well. So you're seeing this kind of shift to people behind the cameras maybe getting attention. And this is a good idea.

Bruce Miller: This is good to give them that kind of attention. Fargo is coming out, and they've offered up people in Costuming and hair and makeup. And you go, who cares about the hair and makeup in Fargo, right? It has a very important part of this year's episodes, and I wish I could tell you more about that. But they won't be bad people to talk to because it's very involved. There are things that happen in the new series of Fargo that involve hair and makeup and Costuming that you go, wow, how did they pull that off. Yeah. So they will be interesting people to talk to that we probably wouldn't if they said, well, we've got John Hamm to interview. Would you like to talk to John Hamm? And you go, of course I want to talk to Jon Hamm. But maybe this will be a wakeup call for those who are scheduling these things into looking, up beyond the star names and down the line a little bit more. Because a lot of people put a lot of effort into these films and series and whatnot, and they don't get any attention whatsoever. Maybe during the time of awards, where there's a category, you might see one of the trade papers do a special edition about costuming, and then they talk to the costume designers of the top ten films and maybe they'll get a nomination for something. But for the most part, those people toil in anonymity they don't get a chance to get the spotlight. So we'll see what happens. But it is fascinating for the time. But I don't want to go two, three, four years talking to editors and composers and directors when easily the actors are there and they can talk about their contributions.

Terry Lipshetz: At least with someone like Sting, who is very well known as a solo artist with the Police Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He did act also. He was in, I think, Dune, in the 80s. So he is a very well known subject. So he can speak very well to that type of program. And then you get someone like Billie Jean King, who, of course, one of the greatest tennis players of all time. Getting someone like her on the record, it's like getting an A list actor, of course.

Bruce Miller: And she's fun because I said, what do you think of pickleball? Come on. Isn't pickleball kind of trying to edge tennis out of the way? And she says, oh, Pickleball. She said, I hate the sound of the ball hitting the racket. She said, there's something so marvelous about hearing a tennis racket and a tennis ball. But, a pickleball, it's hard. The racket is hard. And she says, you just hear this in your head all the time, and it drives you crazy. But she said they also have more injuries in pickleball than they do in anything else.

Terry Lipshetz: Really?

Bruce Miller: Yeah. She said a lot of her friends she said it's good that they're trying it because they're getting active and they're moving, but they're not, reducing injuries at all.

Terry Lipshetz: Wow. Because I've heard quite the opposite that pickleball is a good way to keep seniors active. I know even my mom, who's had both knees replaced and I think a hip as well. She's joined the pickleball phenomena as well.

Bruce Miller: There you go.

Terry Lipshetz: Everybody's doing pickleball.

Bruce Miller: Billie Jean's worried about her.

Terry Lipshetz: I'll let her know with the Billie Jean King, is that getting into the battle of the sexes?

Bruce Miller: Because that's it's the anniversary of Title IX or beyond the anniversary of Title IX. And she thought it would be a great idea to pair up other kind of pioneers in different fields to find equality and what they had to go through. And she talks to the, soccer players that were Olympic medalists and what their lives were like. And they talk about the things like, we were getting $10 a day to play soccer. And that's basically just our food money. And what can you buy for $10? You'll be eating junk food. SUNY Lee, who is, a gold medalist from the last Olympics, and she talks about her challenges and what she faced after she came home, as an Olympic gold medalist. So you have these pairs of people who are kind of weighing in on what the situation has been. And if it goes well, I think it's two episodes. If it goes well, that will then maybe lead to a frequent series of face offs between different people.

Where is streaming going? What is the benefit of going to the theater

Bruce Miller: This weekend, there is a film that's, premiering on Peacock that also is in theaters. And so you're seeing this again. We're wondering, where is streaming going? What is happening with all of this? How many times will I go to theater? What will I go to the theater for? What is the benefit of going to the theater? And I don't know if you have had any remodeling done at theaters near you, but I have near mine. And all of the seats are recliners that are heated. And they have, like, a full menu of food, which I don't remember when I was growing up at all, the only place you could get food was at a drive in theater. And now you don't find drive in theaters anymore. But the drinks that they're offering, it's a bar. And at my theater, they end up the kids who are under 18 or under 21 or whatever age they need to be to be able to serve beverages, adult beverages suddenly can't stand over by the liquor. They can't be near that in any way. And so there's like, the kid who's chosen to be the liquor kid. And so if you order popcorn and a drink, they've got to go call on the guy who is the liquor guy, and he has to do the drink for you. So I find that just kind of fascinating because it will change. And then in the lobby, there are so many games, there are so many claws that you're grabbing at for it's like a carnival. It's a carnival. Yeah.

Terry Lipshetz: It feels like movie theaters today. They're almost going toward becoming like an arena or a stadium for a sporting event. And we've talked about this in the past, where movies are going to be more of an event. Right. You'll pick and choose which ones you're going to go to. Kind of like a sporting event. I'm a huge baseball fan. I probably watch 100 plus baseball games a season from my couch. But I only go to the stadium two, three, four times a year. Kind of like going to a movie theater at this point for me as well. So then you're going to spend okay, I'm going to spend $1015 per ticket, and I'm going to spend on pizza and, maybe a hamburger and a chicken sandwich. Then it becomes more than just getting a bucket of popcorn and the Raisinets, which I hate. I hate Raisinets.

Bruce Miller: Yeah, I don't like those either. No, I don't like Milk Duds either. So if you're a Milk Dud person.

Terry Lipshetz: Sorry, do you like those little the Sno-Caps? The nonpareils?

Bruce Miller: No, that's an old person's thing. I am. But there you are. But that would be one like, mom would get it and you go, oh god, this is not I don't care for it. Thank you. You can have them. I'm good. Yeah, I'm of the era where we brought the candy to the.

Terry Lipshetz: Know. You talk about the remodeling. I'm actually really worried about the AMC Theater. That's literally 2 miles from my house, maybe even less a mile, because it's older and it feels like they never will. And even during COVID when a lot of places were shut down, theaters were shut down, a lot of people would complain to the Village because they were letting their parking lot get overgrown. Now, they still seem to be doing okay. I mean, I drove by last weekend when the Taylor Swift movie opened, and that place was packed and every Showtime was sold out. But a lot of times when I go there, it's in a weird place. It's not near Milwaukee. It's not near Madison. It's kind of in the middle of the suburbs. And it feels like it may not survive. And I might have to drive 30 minutes to a theater.

Bruce Miller: We had an AMC here that they did four screens to see what would it be like? And they remodeled the four screens and it went well. And then they went and did another four. So it kept going in increments. And finally they got it all remodeled. So it could be just their time. It isn't their time yet. But I think look at the Taylor Swift movie that is a pure example of all of this AMC was they, made a direct deal with Taylor Swift. Right. And to get that in and two weeks in a row, number one movie. Now, come on. And again, it goes back to my philosophy is it has to be an event. If it's an event thing, you are going to go out of your comfort zone. And you're not going to sit at home and watch it on some streaming channel. You are going to go out. You want to see that. You want to be a part of that event. And as I noticed, they're spending money. If I'm sitting. 1989. Was that what the ticket price was?

Terry Lipshetz: Right.

Bruce Miller: Like that because of her album, right? Okay, so I'm in for $20. Then we're making an event of it. So I'm not going to just sit there and say, no, I'll have water. You're not going to do that. You'll get a beverage. And if you're an adult that has to bring a bunch of little girls with you'll, get the adult beverage from the kid able to handle that for you. Yeah. And so you're going to make a little more of it, but you probably won't go as often. That's the real stickler of this. In my day, we would go at least twice a week to the movies because there'd be more than two movies that were new each week. And I would, usually go on a Friday and go on a Sunday. And that is so out of the realm of anything today. If I go once a week to a movie theater as just a regular patron, that's saying something. And I'm one who goes to all of the movies because they don't have that much content available.

Hallmark has started the Christmas movies

Bruce Miller: Or if they do have the content, I can get it in an easier form. I don't need to see it at a theater. But I do think they're stepping up their game and they're making it more attractive. You know how you always would complain it's kind of dark, like they need a new bulb in their project, or, it's fuzzy, they didn't focus it. Or I'm sticky on the floor. Those things you don't see that much anymore. And, they do make a big effort of bringing in the blow guns and everything and cleaning up the place before you get in there. But then you also don't have the ability to sit all day long. I remember going to a theater and you'd say, I want to see this again. And you just sit still, and it start in, like, ten minutes.

Terry Lipshetz: Right?

Bruce Miller: So that doesn't happen.

Terry Lipshetz: No.

Bruce Miller: Hear you out, and they make sure that you're out of there. But it is a shift, and I'm wondering what's going to happen now. We're getting into the big Oscar movie, period. I mean, there is a lot that's on the agenda that's supposed to be coming in the next two months, and big, big names and the idea that they're going to muzzle these people. They have to get this solved quickly. It's almost like finding the speaker of the House. It’s like it has to happen. This is too much.

Terry Lipshetz: It's weird, too, because there's a lot of competing forces. Because all of a sudden, after the writer strike ended, we knew, obviously, that late night TV would come, know Jimmy Fallon was back, john Oliver was back. But then all of a sudden, Saturday Night Live came back, and I had to do a double take, like, well, wait a second. How is Saturday Night Live back? Because these are actors. And it turns out that the show well, it's covered by a different contract. It's more like late night it's under the late night TV game show, whatever weird. But it's not these are actors acting. So how can we have these actors? So are we going to get nothing but a bunch of variety shows now? But it's really strange. And it just feels like, this has got to get worked out soon because you can't and then I know actors, too, can go overseas because there's certain obviously in Europe there's different contracts, there's different mean. You know, production of films in the UK. Or EU haven't necessarily shut down like they have over here.

Bruce Miller: Could you really call bad Bunny an? I mean, but yeah, look at, the talk shows at night. They aren't asking people from films or TV shows to come and be their guests. They’ve been doing a lot of Broadway people. I noticed that Josh Groban has been making the rounds and he's in Sweeney Todd on Broadway. And, that's not covered. We've seen the cast, Daniel Radcliffe. Jonathan Groff. So you'll see those people kind of they're actors, but they're not in a film. They're not in a so you're and you'll see athletes and musicians. They're going to make, hey, well, this is all going on, but who knows what will happen? The other thing that I think you did not realize is that we have started the Christmas movies. Hallmark is like hardcore. And I think they have new movies every Thursday, Friday, Saturday, maybe Sunday. I don't know. Do you have to get stuck into that?

Terry Lipshetz: No, my wife doesn't watch those Hallmark Christmas movies. Or at least I don't think if she does, she's watching them without me because I get stuck in the kids ones. We will watch whatever ones come out on Netflix or Hulu or TV or but, but even, at least with them, they're middle schoolers now. So some of that stuff is just baby stuff. It's little kids stuff. So we're not going to watch that. But it is coming on fast. I know my wife and one of my daughters went just to Kohl's the other day to do clothing shopping. And they came back and they said Christmas music was playing in the store. You got to be kidding me. It's not even Halloween.

Bruce Miller: We had Christmas in July. Remember that? They were allowed buying all those Christmas movies in July. And now suddenly it's the real time. But Christmas is not that far away. If you add up the days, it's not like that long from now. So they're getting deep into it with the Hallmark Channel. And nothing stops those people. I'm sure they're making them in Yugoslavia or God knows where, just to make sure that they can get like 153,000,000 Christmas films done all, on basically the same set, saying the same things with just different people. Who were in a different career. It's always somebody comes home to a small town and realizes that, oh, I really do kind of like it here. I don't need to be a high paced business person in New York City. I can live in East Overshoot, Tennessee, and I can be a know who's happy here. With whomever? The local cobbler. I will marry the local cobbler and that'll be my life.

Terry Lipshetz: And Reba McIntyre is your mother.

Bruce Miller: I have found that with those, I'll sit and start watching one and I fall asleep and I wake and it's a different one and it's the same thing. So if you worry about, the resolution, no problem. It's there.

When would the actors strike end?

Terry Lipshetz: My biggest concern right now is when we had this discussion several months ago regarding when would the actor strike end and you were a little bit more optimistic about it than I was. No, I'm starting to think like I might be right on, on this one. I don't remember the exact date, but I thought it was going to be like late November is when they would nail it down. Because at that point everyone would head into freak out mode knowing that NFL is about to end, college football is about to then, you know, there's nothing. It's, it's NBA, NHL, and not a whole lot else until baseball season resumes. And those aren't exactly huge, TV drivers either. We're running out of and CW.

Bruce Miller: Look at the CW. They are grabbing everything from every country. They've just announced a couple of new series from, you know, aren't those always on BBC or BBC America or something? So we see them somewhere else, but now they're picking up whatever strays they can find and they're sticking it on the CW. And so I think until the content runs out, you know, we're going to see Korean shows and we're going to see just everything until they're ready to blink. And when they blink, I don't know what will happen. The folks in New York say that Broadway is suffering because it's too expensive and people are not seeing that as an. You know, you always thought, well, maybe they could film some of those things and throw them on some streaming service, whatever. But that doesn't seem to be like another pool for them to pick from. So the bottom line is they've got to get this stopped. Otherwise we're going to run out of talent. Talent will switch to something else. I don't know if you follow these things, but a lot of actors that you might have seen on some shows realize they can't get work and they end up becoming real estate salespeople. And so the actor that you liked in whatever sitcom is suddenly selling real estate now in Los Angeles and probably making more money is more secure than he was ever before. And you think, wow, you would turn on this thing that was your lifelong dream. Because everything's going bust in your business. And I think that's one of the things they'll look at. You will lose actors that you were fond of because they can't find the place to go.

Next week, we talk about a new series from Taylor Sheridan called Lawmen: Bass Reeves

Terry Lipshetz: On that note, anything else? We have Sting. We have Billie Jean King. I know we'll look forward in the coming weeks to things like Fargo.

Bruce Miller: Yeah. Next week, I do want to introduce you to the people from Lawman, Bass Reeves. It's a new series, a limited series that's from the Taylor Sheridan kind of house.

Terry Lipshetz: Right.

Bruce Miller: And in there, we are able to talk to, one of the directors. One of the directors who considers himself a reggae director oh, nice. And how he brings that sensibility to the series. And then also the guy who wrote the series. And he worked very closely with David in terms of what do you want to say with this and what is coming out of this. They had a lot of research. They went down the road about everything they could find about Bass Reeves, and then they decided, okay, but there's got to be another kind of overriding story that we're going to tell with this. And what is that overriding story? And you'll hear from them next week. But I do want you to get into this because it's going to be a big thing, Paramount Plus. And, they do talk about where does it fit with Yellowstone.

Terry Lipshetz: Okay. Yeah. And that's good, because we'll talk more about that next week because my wife, she signed up for something. And we do have, like, a 30 day trial if we want, of Paramount Plus. And I did see that Bass reuse trailer, and I thought, that looks kind of interesting. And I have not seen any of the Yellowstone series. So is it maybe worth my time? So maybe we could talk about that next week.

Bruce Miller: When you see it, you're going to go, wow, look how lavish this is. It really looks like a huge movie, huge cast, great sets, a lot of buffalo, if you can believe that.

Terry Lipshetz: yeah.

Bruce Miller: And so we'll talk more about it because I want that one to hit your radar. I want you to think about that, and then we'll talk about some of the other new movies and things that are coming out.

Terry Lipshetz: Sounds good. All right, well, on that note, thanks again, and we will see you again next week on another other episode of, Streamed and Screened.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Move over "Oppenheimer" and "Barbie." The latest film from writer, director and producer Martin Scorsese — "Killers of the Flower Moon" — might be the best movie of 2023 and could run away with multiple Oscars when awards season approaches.

Co-host Bruce Miller, who got an early screening of the film that opens October 20 after its brief run at Cannes earlier this year, shares his impressions of the film and where it stacks up with other Scorsese classics that featured Robert De Niro and Leonardo DiCaprio. The two actors have long been favorites of the director, but had never appeared in one of his films together until now.

Co-host Terry Lipshetz, who has not yet seen the film, shares his thoughts on past Scorsese films such as "Goodfellas," "The Departed" and others, and introduces clips featuring Scorsese, De Niro, DiCaprio, Lily Gladstone, Jesse Plemons and Chief Geoffrey Standing Bear of the Osage Nation.

Where to watch and more coverage

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We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Headliner and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

 Martin Scorsese talks about his new film Killers of the Flower Moon

Martin Scorsese: Well, I think the story itself has elements of stuff that you would expect to see in my movies. This approach, however, is from another angle, and I think it's from a more personal, side, which is the story of, the husband and wife, Ernest and Molly, and more so through Molly, I think, and how it affects her. We don't shy away from showing anything, but it has different resonance because of, her, really.

Terry Lipshetz: Welcome, everyone, to another episode of streamed and screened and entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. That clip you just heard was from Martin Scorsese, writer, director, and producer of Killers of the Flower Moon during the Mexico City premiere of the film. Courtesy EPKTV.

Bruce Miller: This is a special film that you will want to see

Terry Lipshetz: I'm Terry Lipschetz, a senior producer at Lee and co host of the program with Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter. He is also lucky enough and is the only person I know to have seen Martin Scorsese's new film, Killers of the Flower Moon. Bruce, I'm yours here. I don't even know what else to say because you're special. You've seen it, I haven't.

Bruce Miller: What can you say about a film like this? Just another thing that he put out. Just another film. It's just no, it is something. This is a special film that you will want to see. But I'm going to warn you before we even get into the rest of it, and that's that it's long. People complain, and, who complains more about a long film than I do? It really will be one that if you could break it up and watch it in parts, you'd probably enjoy it more. But I did need to have a bathroom break in the middle of it, so I'm admitting to that freely. I know that I shouldn't have had a beverage before I went in, but, yeah, it is everything you've heard about, everything you've thought about, everything you've wanted and more. If this isn't Martin Scorsese's big valedictory, I don't know what is, because there's a lot to unpack with the film, and he brings in people that truthfully. I did not know some of these actors were in the film. And so the last quarter of the film, they start popping up and you go, oh, my God. They all wanted to be in one of his films before he quits making films. And you see big names and they just are playing little throwaway roles, which I found was very fascinating to see. And it isn't like you think, okay, the movie, I kind of know where it's ending. It's ending, right? No, it gets another kind of breath and then it goes through another process. And you go, yeah, wow, that was something. And then the ending of the whole thing is a big surprise.

Terry Lipshetz: So you're not going to give that away?

Bruce Miller: No, I'm not going to give that away.

Terry Lipshetz: Don't spoil it.

Bruce Miller: You got to see that one. But yeah, I was pleasantly surprised. And I'm glad I didn't time the bathroom break at the end because I then would have missed this part. But it was like, okay, I like that. That's a nice way of putting a button on.

Terry Lipshetz: Know you're talking about the length. I do see that it is three minutes shorter than his last film, The Irishman. So it is quicker. A little faster, right. But that was a long one, too.

Bruce Miller: The Irishman, you could pause because it was on Netflix, right.

Terry Lipshetz: This is an Apple TV production. But it's not on Apple TV.

Bruce Miller: No, it's going to be theaters first, and then it will go to Apple TV. But don't expect, like, it's opening this week, and then next week you're going to see it on Apple. It's not they will have this kind of victory lap that will last, I'm sure, at least through the end of October, if not into November. And it warrants it. When you see this, it's one of the best things Leonardo DiCaprio has done. And he's done a lot of Scorsese films. It's, a different take on Robert De Niro. In fact, when I first saw him, I didn't realize it was Robert De Niro and heard his voice. He was channeling somebody other than what we've seen in the past. And what's fascinating I found about the film is that it touches on a lot of very familiar movies. There's a little Godfather in this. There's a little giant in this. Think about epic films that you've seen, and there's a little bit of that in there. But it also is its own story. So I think he's paying homage to a lot of his predecessors, but he's also creating a path for himself. There was even a little Wes Anderson in there that I, was surprised at.

Terry Lipshetz: That's interesting.

Bruce Miller: I don't know if that gives you anything more to go on, but there are moments with De Niro and DiCaprio that you go, this could be The Godfather. This could really be from The Godfather. It has that kind of momentum going that I really loved.

Lily Gladstone plays love interest of Leonardo DiCaprio's character

Bruce Miller: And then we haven't even mentioned Lily Gladstone. Lily Gladstone plays a member of the Osage Nation who is a love interest of Leonardo DiCaprio's character. And you can see where the two guys are going to be kind of heightened actory kind of characters. And she pulls back and is very natural, and they match her. And it's fascinating how this works out. And a lot of the Native American actors who I don't know if they've had long careers, are fascinating to watch. He has done something here that I think you don't see in run of the mill movies. It is a real surprise, one right after another.

Terry Lipshetz: It's interesting that you bring up how this feels like one of his earlier films, scorsese's earlier films, some of the ones tied to kind of organized, crime and mafia. I have a clip from the movie and it's a scene where De Niro and DiCaprio are together and they're kind of having an argument. It comes after it sounds like a hit and there's a shooting. But when I watched this clip now, again, I haven't seen the movie. So I've only been able to see trailers and short clips. But this one felt like it had that feeling of, like, goodfellas when they're kind of yelling at each other or even like The Departed. It kind of had that kind of feeling to it. But it brings the two actors together.

Robert de Niro plays Leonardo DiCaprio's uncle in the film

Bruce Miller: Can I give you a little setup for the scene?

Terry Lipshetz: Sure.

Bruce Miller: Robert de Niro plays Leonardo DiCaprio's. Uncle Leo has been in the war, but he comes back. He doesn't really know what to do with himself. He doesn't have a career. The uncle says, Come to this area because there's a lot of opportunity. The Osage nation hit oil. They struck oil. And as a result, people were really, really rich. The Native Americans had the latest in cars. They had butlers and chauffeurs and maids and huge homes. They were living the life that everybody, I think, would love to live. And there were a group of people who were benefiting from them being around. De Niro's character is considered a, respected white man in their territory. And he has relationships with most of the people. So they trust him and they believe in what he says to them. And he brings in this nephew. And the nephew is kind of a deadbeat, if you ask me. I saw him as a deadbeat. And he's just looking for a way to get his piece of this pie. And so then De Niro has spelled out a number of things he needs to do and it's about how do you behave and what do you do in this area. And we've got to watch so that if we do something that maybe isn't above board that you're not getting caught. So here's the scene.

FILM CLIP

It's supposed to be a suicide, you dumbbell. You didn't tell him to leave the gun.

I don't know why I told him.

To leave the gun.

I told him to leave the gun just like you told. I don't know why he didn't.

I don't know why I told him.

Just like you told him.

You told him to do it in.

The front of the head. And why did he do it in the back of the head? It's so simple. The front is the front. The back is the back, mate. He has to make it look like he done himself. It just looks like murder. It's not supposed to be that way, you hear? I told him the front of the head. I said the front of the head. Just like this. Just like you told me. I promise you. I promise you.

I swear on my children.

I swear on my children.

Kane and don't swear on your children makes you look foolish.

I ain't foolish, because I'm the guy.

Terry Lipshetz: And that was a pretty powerful clip right there.

Leonardo DiCaprio plays Ernest Burkhart in the film

Terry Lipshetz: And I do have one other clip because we're talking about some of the characters, and maybe you can help set this up as well. But in this scene, Leonardo DiCaprio, who plays Ernest Burkhart, he is driving Lily Gladstone, who plays Molly Burkhart, who's eventually becomes his wife. His wife, right. But this is an early scene where he is driving her. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Bruce Miller: He needs a job, and so he becomes a driver. He was like an Uber driver, for lack of a better term. And she is one of his steady customers, and he realizes there could be a relationship there because she's beautiful. She doesn't suffer fools. what I love about her is she stands her own with all the people, and yet it isn't like she needs a big showy scene to do it. She can do it with a look, and that's what's so cool about her performance. But I think this is early on in their relationship, and they are kind of feeling each other out in terms of, could this possibly be a match for me? They told me you was going with Matt M. Williams for a time.

FILM CLIP

Lily Gladstone: You talk too much.

Leonardo DiCaprio: I don't talk too much thinking, well, I got to beat in this horse race. That's all.

Lily Gladstone: I didn't realize it was a race. I don't care for watching horses.

Leonardo DiCaprio: Well, I'm a different kind of horse.

Lily Gladstone: Hong Kashi. Show me kasikoshi.

Leonardo DiCaprio: What was that?

Lily Gladstone: Show me kasi. That's how you are.

Leonardo DiCaprio: I don't know what you said, but it must have been Indian for Handsome Devil.

Terry Lipshetz: That sounds like a pretty good clip right there, too. And it's getting me excited. It seems like they had really good chemistry on screen. Chemistry. Did you get that feeling?

Bruce Miller: Yeah. And, the thing I loved is that it did not seem like it was the same old, same old, because when you've done a lot of movies with the same director, it can be like, okay, we're using you because you can bring us this. And I thought they were both trying new kinds of characters. In fact, Leo's character reminded me more of one of the characters he played in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, more than anything. And he always talks about being thick. That's a line that kind of, resonates throughout the film. But he says, I'm not thick. I'm not thick. And he doesn't want people to think he's dumb, that he knows what he's doing, and he's smart. But really, when you get down to it, he probably is thick. That some of these moves he makes makes him seem like, yeah, maybe we need to guide you along a little bit more.

This is the first time Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro have worked together in a Martin Scorsese film

Terry Lipshetz: We talked a little bit at the top of this show, know Scorsese reuniting with DiCaprio with de Niro. So this is actually, the 6th film that DiCaprio has done with Scorsese. This is the 10th that De Niro has done with Scorsese. Now the interesting thing is Robert, De Niro and Martin Scorsese did a lot of films together earlier, like 70s into the 80s. But then that relationship kind of cooled off a little bit and they went their separate ways. And DiCaprio kind of filled in to what you would consider to be that.

Bruce Miller: He became the new Bobby.

Terry Lipshetz: He became the new bobby. But this is the first time that the two are working together in the same film. So how is that chemistry between the two of them?

Bruce Miller: You know what, i, think that, Robert De Niro has honed in a lot of his performances in recent years. And you can look at some of those bad comedies that he's done. You know that he's phoning in some of those, right? But this one challenges him in such ways that he uses different voices. It isn't the same kind of De Niro voice that you've been looking I when, I wrote a review about it and I thought that he reminded me of James Whitmore. Now this is going back. James Whitmore in the film. Give him hell, Harry. It sounded like that was what he was trying to do. And he was trying to be this kind of likable character, not necessarily somebody who has the upper hand and is going to cut you if you don't do what you say. And I think that's kind of his, you know what I mean, where, he has that. I've loved him in so many films. I, really regret that Raging Bull did not get Best Picture. I think that was one of the big mistakes of all time. Because I don't think The Departed was the best film that Scorsese has made. But we've got this one. And this one could well be the one that brings it all home for him.

Terry Lipshetz: I always thought that I love the Departed. It is one of my favorite movies, one of my favorite Martin Scorsese movies. However, to me, it doesn't stand up like a Raging Bull or a Ah Goodfellas or probably half a dozen other films. It always felt like The Departed was kind of like, a makeup.

Bruce Miller: You look back at some of those early ones and I think he was part of that group, if you will, that were very big in the they were all kind of jockeying for position. So I think some of those ones that he did early on were masterful something like Taxi Driver, for example. Have you ever seen De Niro better than that? And De Niro has been really good. And Raging Bull, I think, is his best picture ever. But you look at Taxi Driver and you can remember those. Are you looking at me? You're going to come up with the lines right away because it was such an indelible character. And you look at the styles of Martin Scorsese's movies and they are different. Some of those early ones are very kind of know, I do them on $5 kind of movies. And then there are ones that are very elaborate and you think, wow, they spent some bucks on them. This is one of those. They spent some bucks on them. Because the costumes, the sets, all the little details are top drawer. They're just the best. And then you get that like that string of actors. In the end, I kid you not, you are going to, don't look at any list of the actors who are in the film because you'll be looking for them. But there's even Jason Isbell is in there. And you go, wait a minute, he's in this? Come on. And so it's a nice surprise to see that last quarter of the film where they start kind of coming in as various and sundry, lawyers, politicians, representatives, whatever.

Terry Lipshetz: I did cheat.

Bruce Miller: You did.

Terry Lipshetz: I did cheat. Well, I need to know what I'm talking about coming in here. So I did see and it's an interesting look at quite, a few musicians. You mentioned jason isbell. But Jack White is in it. Pete Yorn is in it. Sturgill Simpson. There's a lot of very recent contemporary musicians, a lot of Americana country musicians, but a lot of musicians in this. But there's also a lot of other just very well known actors like Brendan Fraser, John Lithgow, Jesse Clemens. I mean, it's a heavy hitting, right?

Bruce Miller: Right. Yeah. It's and Jesse Plemons, you don't see him until, jeez, it's almost over. And then he comes in. And I thought immediately he reminded me of Ben Johnson in Last Picture Show. Now, is that not a reference? I mean, there are little things like that. If you are a fan of film, you can find touchstones here in this movie that relate. I could do like a diagram and then I could put arrows to all these different films. Look at this scene. And this reminds me of this. This reminds me of that. And yet it's uniquely his film. It is not a copy of like, oh, this worked. So I'm going to use that. Not that at all. But like I said, it is fascinating how if you love these kinds of movies, you will really love this one. And I learned stuff like I say, I did not know all this backstory on the Osage Nation and how people were treated. It's unbelievable. And why it took this long to get this story on a screen, or maybe it has and I just missed it is beyond me.

This is a film about the Osage Nation and a specific time in history

Terry Lipshetz: You mentioned, of course, this is a film about the Osage Nation and time in history. We actually have a clip with Chief, Standing Bear from the Osage Nation, who helped as a consultant on the film. So, let's cut away to that for a moment.

Speaker G: Well, I'm principal chief of the Osage Nation, and when David Grand, was writing the book, he was spending a lot of time with us, years. And, after he sold the movie rights, he called and told us that Imperative would take, it from here. And we met with an Imperative, and we were very concerned that someone else is going to tell our story without being our story. But imperative was very careful. They didn't want to over promise. So when they started saying, this is a movie that the Osage will be proud of, and they're going to tell the story through the eyes of Molly, that really got us, in a positive mood. And then Chad Renfro, who I had appointed as our ambassador to this world and the movie, said, Chief Marty Scorsese, he'll be here in the morning. And so he came. First thing he said is, we're going to film here. And then my staff and I, encouraged him and Marianne Bauer and everyone to work with our people on this whole, process. And, it's just been something we worked with for years, every day. And for six months, the filming, was right there in Pahuska, dirt streets, everything. What you see is not computer generated. I've been down watching them film. It's an amazing process. I've never seen anything like it. We've had other movies made in Fahaska, but nothing like this.

Bruce Miller: There's a lot of, native languages in this, so you really do feel like you're a part of it. It's like in The Godfather, for example, when they go to Italy and they're speaking Italian and you don't know what in the world's going on, but you know that something's happening. That's a way that the Native American characters are able to keep some of these opportunists at an arm's length, is that they can talk to one another and say, know, I am not so sure about this. Know, so it is a gangster film in a way, but it's not what we traditionally think of as a gangster film.

Martin Scorsese has done a lot of films based on true stories recently

Terry Lipshetz: Corsace has done a lot of films recently. I mean, he's done this all throughout his career, where he does stories that are either inspired by true stories or they're true stories. Such as the case with the Irishman, the Wolf of Wall Street, the Aviator. Where does this one stand compared to some of those others that are based on true stories in your mind?

Bruce Miller: Well, I'm sure they do take liberties because it's based on a novel that was a huge, huge hit.

Terry Lipshetz: Right.

Bruce Miller: I think it's a great adaptation, if I can say that. But I still think Raging Bull was a more defining kind of biography, if you will. But hey, get ready. Get ready. This is a film you want to see, and this is a year of oppenheimer. Remember, we all hot about Oppenheimer. Well, this is the competition, folks. I think you really have I am going to put them both in at one time and watch them and then just see which one is better.

“Killers of the Flower Moon” could win multiple Academy Awards

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah, that was my next question for you. When we spoke a few weeks ago, it felt like Oppenheimer at that moment, was the best picture. But now that you've seen this yeah.

Bruce Miller: it could win could because up and down the line, there are such excellent examples of what movie making is all know he got in trouble for talking about how those Marvel movies sorry, were not really movies. They were just kind of whatever. And he puts up he shows you what a real movie is. I think we've been so duped in the years of Marvel films that it becomes a formula. To make a movie, you must do this, this, and this. And you need this character and that character. And you get out of it this way. And that's how it goes. And this is creating stuff. This is a new vocabulary, a new way of looking at films. And like I say, that last little bit, you're going to go, I did not realize that that would be a way to end this film. I hope that more than anything, I've gotten you to think about wanting to see it.

Terry Lipshetz: Yeah. And I was looking it up because it obviously opens this weekend. But the next thing I looked at is like, well, when is it going to go to Apple TV? is it worth waiting? And it looks like at the earliest, early 2024. So I need to get to the theater.

Bruce Miller: Yeah. No, and it needs to be seen on a big screen. It is lavish. I mean, you see those outdoor scenes, and he's not working with a couple, of drones to shoot these scenes. You know, there's a crane involved. And there's a lot they're cattle. My God, the cattle are running all over. And you think, how did they wrangle this? And all those old cars. they said that the Pierce Arrow was one of the most successful cars among the Osage nation, that they all wanted to have a Pierce Arrow. And they got all these cars. And you think, how did they do this? How did they make this so exacting? And then you know that he had people who were guiding him through all of the Native American things. There are ways that they are holding the shawls or using the kind of colors. And I know it all means something. They have done due diligence to every aspect of this. And I think that those who are subliminally part of the story would appreciate what he has done. Because it isn't just I'm, making a movie that's based on a book that's about something that happened. He wants to get it right. And the Native American music that you hear throughout it, too, is a real spectacle to behold. And yeah, there are just parts of it that, you know, that they have done right by the people that they are chronicling.

Leonardo DiCaprio: The film took the number of years to make. But we finally got it done

Terry Lipshetz: All right, I'm going to cut away quickly now to one, more clip from Martin Scorsese. Let's go to that one really quick.

Martin Scorsese: Well, I'm disappointed that we don't have the actors. it's a good time for them to be here and to enjoy, even if it's just a moment of, getting a picture taken together. And everything they went through. The film took the number of years to make. the pandemic took its toll. There's no doubt, took its toll in time and interruptions. But we finally got it done. and, it's been a very special film for me, especially over the years, trying to get it to, be in a shape that was a story I wanted to tell, along with Leo and Lily Gladstone and De Niro and Jesse Plemons and all the Osage with us on this picture. But, it's a special film for me, and I hope I learned something from it.

Terry Lipshetz: Even though Martin Scorsese there was talking about how the actors can't promote the film when he was at the London premiere recently. The good news is this is we do have audio from the actors from before the strike began. So we're going to go ahead now and queue up a few clips. Now, in this first one, we have Lily Gladstone and Leonardo DiCaprio.

Leonado DiCaprio: We optioned the book seven, eight years ago. And it was a, fascinating piece of forgotten history, but it was told from the perspective of the FBI. And we developed a screenplay soon after that. but there was a dynamic missing there that, we ultimately felt that we weren't getting to the heart of the story. We weren't immersed in the Osage community the way we wanted to be. And there was two short sequences of Ernest and Molly together, which was this insanely, bizarre love story, something that was hard to fathom in a lot of ways, how this woman stuck by someone who was so duplicitous. But it was true. All of it was true. And so from that point on, we said to ourselves, well, what if we take the chance on in getting to the heart of this story and the Osage community and this insane dynamic in Oklahoma at that time and what was going on? What if we made it know Molly and Ernest? And that was another four year journey of rewriting and once again going to Oklahoma to meet with the a new, another chapter of development of getting even further into the truth of that story and trying to be as honest as we possibly could about the atrocities that occurred. But it was really when we made that shift to it being about Ernest and Molly and their love for one another, it opened up a whole new arena of ideas for us and it took on a whole new life of itself.

Lily Gladstone: One of the biggest responsibilities I felt about this role was that I'm not Osage

Lily Gladstone: One of the biggest responsibilities I felt about this role and, the way that I had to occupy the space of Molly was that I'm not Osage from the community. I have access points being blackfeet and as purse and growing up in the Blackfeet Reservation. we don't have something like the Reign of Terror, but we have our own history with, not being able to manage our own finances, for a time, with a lot of the things that I think a lot of contemporary Native Americans feel and understand. But walking in like, Indian Country is an incredibly diverse place and Osage Country was, foreign to me walking into it. And, Oklahoma has a different history than Montana does, where I grew up. So I knew that because I had to be in this position where I'm, in a way, an access point for the audience to fall in love with Native women and to care about Native women in a really deep way. The way that that happens is I had to fall in love with everybody I was around. I had to fall in love with my sisters and that was effortless. and also with a level within the community. it's not my community, but I had to carry it as if it were, as if they were stories from my family. I think that's kind of the root of empathy and it's one of the reasons that I love being an actor, is you're serving as an access point for, other experiences and you're kind of broadening a cultural understanding of what it means to be human by doing so. yeah, I feel like there's no way I could really, really ever understand or truly embody what it would have meant to be an Osage woman at that time because it's unimaginable the things that this community had to deal with. And it's horrendous how erased it was. And early research with Leah. We were sitting down, going through some of the court documents and the testimonies from this and people were talking about the house blowing up and the documents from this and the court transcripts. They only talked about Bill Smith. The character played by Jason Isbell. There was no mention of Rita. We were sitting there looking at these just court transcripts on this very fragile old paper that we were being very tender with. And then it's like you don't necessarily feel like you're going to be moved by a court document, but I had to stop. I mean, we had this nice system where I was handing you pages and we were turning them over and being careful as we were both reading and everything. And then you were kind of waiting for me to hand you the page and wasn't getting it because I was. Crying over the lack of Rita in this paper. So that kind of took me by surprise that I was moved the way that I was in that moment. But it made it so incredibly clear that me being in this role is a responsibility for this array, is a responsibility for m this community that has been so erased out of their own history, starting with these court documents before any writer gets a hand on it. So, it's vital that this history be explored that way. And I'm so grateful that Marty also, in addition to this being so it's Killers of the Flower Moon, the book is there. It was also the heartbeat of it was so shaped by a book written about this time from an Osage perspective called A Pipe for February by Charles Redcorn. And, ah, I encourage people to read that because copy paste there's elements of that book that are very clearly in the movie in a very certain way. But the tone of that book and the sense of the relationships between the sisters in the community, the photographs that you see, the way that the book invites you into what that perspective is, the way that the community invites you into what their perspective is. Because, if you're there and you're receptive and you're open, they'll share it. they don't push too hard because we're talking about trauma, but people are willing to share, basically. Read a pipe for February.

Robert De Niro talks about his role as William King Hale

Terry Lipshetz: In this next clip, we have, Robert De Niro speaking about his role as William King Hale.

Robert De Niro: Well, on this one, I was aware that Leo and Marty had this project and they were talking about asking me if Marty were asking me to do it. And we were working out Irishman too and so on. So, at one point I said, I told them I'll do it, I'll commit to it. I wasn't quite sure. Hale is what that's all I knew. Then later they told me that they want to change what the book was, doing and make it more about the relationship with Ernest and Hales. So, I said, yeah, that sounds good. And that was it. Then I waited for the script and then we worked on it in pieces. went over it, as I remember. and were going over it during the shooting, sort of titrating it, if you will, because of Leo's, his relationship with Molly, the poisoning and all that and how much he knew or didn't know or half knew and then my involvement and all that. So it was all kind of just making sure we were doing it in the right way. As I been saying, I don't know certain things about him. What he did is so awful. there, were certain things I could understand, but I feel that he did love the, osage or thought he loved them, but somehow felt entitled to do what he did. I don't know how that is. I know he knew he was doing something wrong, possibly, but rationalized to himself that he was doing it for some sort of greater good, whatever that is. His own family, whatever that was. But he had his family. I don't know. it's, one of those things, that you don't always know, the motivations of characters. Sometimes it's more easy, and even then, characters don't know themselves. So I just did my best.

Jesse Plemons plays Tom White, a Bureau of Investigation agent

Terry Lipshetz: We have one more clip. And this is from Jesse Plemons, who played Tom White, a Bureau of Investigation agent investigating the murders.

Jesse Plemons: Well, I had read the book, which was shocking and really, well written. And yeah, I've played characters in the CIA and I read a complete history of that a long time ago. But I didn't know, about the birth of the CIA. I mean, of the FBI or anything. but growing up in Texas, I actually grew up in a town outside of Waco. And there's Texas Ranger Hall of Fame there in my hometown. So there was something really strange about and nice about, playing this character and something that felt like I had I don't know, it's a part of me, I guess. and I read I think it's called Ashes of Glory or something, a, History of the Texas Rangers. And that was really helpful and changed my perspective greatly, because it tells the honest story of the Texas Rangers. And I was brought up to believe that they were these heroes. And I'm sure within that there are some people that had some sort of moral compass. But my, takeaway from that was they were more of a gang that just kind of cleared the way for the White people, and did some really horrific things. So the fact that Tom White was a part of the Texas Rangers and managed to come out such an honest, good man that, treated everyone as equal and was such a voice of justice was intimidating, to take on because his goodness is so amazing, especially for that time.

Director Martin Scorsese talks about the making of the Native American film

Terry Lipshetz: And finally, we do have one more clip. This again is from Director Martin Scorsese. A little bit more in depth talking about the film.

Martin Scorsese: Originally, I was drawn to the story by the book by David Graham, which delineates this extraordinary, tragedy, in American history that I really knew nothing about. And the script was given to me, this was in 2017. And, I understood immediately that trying to approach this material, particularly the nature of this tragedy one would have to do it from the point of view of Leo Sage and, not the Osage as victims, but as people. Ah, to really get to know who they are to understand as much as possible the values and, their appreciation of, the world around them and the life. And so, at one point, while we were working on finishing the film Irishman, we, talked about where is the heart of the story? this systemized, kind of racist tragedy occurred. and yet many of the white people that were there who were perpetrating it were still very good friends with some of the Osage. So what is that about as part of being a human being? and, Leo said, well, what about Ernest, the character? Ernest Burkhart, who he plays in the film? Now, he was going to play another character. He said, what about him? because he's married to Molly, he had to have had something to do with these murders. We don't know what to this day. And yet she stayed with him. And I said, well, she loved him, and he loved her. Did he really love her? I think he did. Is he weak, strong, whatever? And he was manipulated by his uncle. Okay, we know all that. But by going into the love story which, by the way, was, more than hinted at, but was, explained to me by the Osage themselves, they said, don't forget they were in love, Ernest and Molly. And I said, well, let's find out how. I don't know how people could be in know. I can't describe that. It's just that we can't express it. But there's something, a bond between the two of them where she trusted and trusted to the very end. And I think that's part of the tragedy of trusting people who, come from a culture where, we think we're superior and we think the other cultures have to be coming, from I'm American, European, so it's the European culture. The Western culture is superior, so everything else gets wiped out. it's not that simple, because there are values there, and we're all part of the human condition. And so for us, this project was something that, as you say, shine a light, certainly, on this time in history. And coincidentally, in 1921, while this was happening in, Pahuska and in Fairfax, Tulsa was burning, there was the, black Wall Street was going. And we didn't know anything about that until a couple of years ago. And so m this was systematic. The country was made by white Europeans. That's it. Yeah, but the democracy and freedom for all and the pursuit of happiness for all, you see, and, this is what we wanted to get into. And the only way I thought we could do it was to go to the heart of it, really. I was going to say minimalist, in a way, go and go from the center, and then come out not from the outside in. As I said, I felt that when I first read when I looked, we even took the book, I said, if you're going to be dealing with indigenous people, I said, we're going to have to know them. We simply have to know them. And so what that means is they have to be, with us. And it's got to be different from the way other films were made about them or about their world. And so automatically, once the script was in progress, we, sent a group of people to meet, Chief Standing Bear. Then I was brought out to meet them. This is before the, COVID epidemic. And so, once meeting them, I understood that we have to be understood even more that we have to be extremely careful and not, as I pointed out earlier, not stuffy, not, prissy with everything that has to be lived in and felt. And so, in learning about how a blanket is worn, and what the designs of a blanket mean, we learn who the people are and we get to know each other. And it really was interesting. It really was. And it's something that's always fascinated me about American, indigenous people and First Nations. And so I was fascinated by it. and I tried to get as much as I could into, what they put into the film. They also, as you know, ah, so many of the Osage not only, were in front of the camera, but also behind the camera, making, designing and helping making the costumes and all the props, because a lot of this had been forgotten. Even the language has been forgotten. There's only Van Bighorse and, Chris, who's the other guy, he taught the actors how to speak Osage, including Leo and De Niro. And so they were learning their language again. And the young people are coming back, you see, for their rituals now. And the young people are beginning to the young o sage are coming back and, understanding, now the value of who they are and what their nation was and still is. And so this is something that happened. Kind of a rebirth, in a way.

Terry Lipshetz: Wow. You know, hearing from those actors and scorsese again, I'm just getting more and more excited to see this film.

Terry Lipshetz: I think I pretty much have to drop what I'm doing this weekend and get to it.

Bruce Miller: It's on your must list. I'm putting on the must list, but I'm pulling you from all liquids. You can't drink anything before you go in.

Terry Lipshetz: But it's shorter than the Irishman. It's three minutes shorter.

Bruce Miller: Shorter than the Irishman. But you can't pause it. That's the problem. Yeah, it's one of those ones you want to see. And I think even though we can't hear all these interviews and see them on all these talk shows now, which is what would happen, it might be better for us to experience it first, and then when they come back, to award season, as they like to call it. We'll hear all those interviews again, and then we have, a little heads up because I think I love the idea that you don't know anything really, about what's going on, and it just kind of unfolds in front of you. It was remarkable. Remarkable.

Terry Lipshetz: all right, well, on that note, first off, thanks again to EPKTV for providing us with all that audio. It's just difficult to get these actors. I know you can't really get them now because of the ongoing strike. So it's good that we were able to have a source to provide us with audio for this program. I'm looking forward to seeing this movie and looking forward to having you back again next week on another episode of streamed and screened.

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