Streamed & Screened: Movie and TV Reviews and Interviews

Join us on a fascinating journey through time as we explore Bruce Miller's 44-year career in entertainment reporting, filled with on-set experiences from some of the most iconic TV shows and movies.

This includes all of the various spinoffs of "Star Trek," the penultimate episode of "M*A*S*H" and beloved sitcoms such as "Cheers," "Frasier," "The Big Bang Theory" and "The Office."

We also dive into the realm of TV set design, with stories from the sets of popular shows like "Grey's Anatomy," "The West Wing" and "Parks and Recreation."

We also share a few stories about the 1982 film "Annie," which was shot on the campus of Monmouth University, which co-host Terry Lipshetz attended in the 1990s, and the 1978 film "Ice Castles," which included Bruce as one of the many extras.

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We want to hear from you! Email questions to [email protected] and we'll answer your question on a future episode!

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Streamed & Screened, an entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, senior producer at Lee and your co-host of a program with Bruce Miller, who we've pulled out of a time capsule this week from reporting. He's been doing entertainment reporting forever with the Sioux City Journal. But he's been everywhere.

And we wanted to do a special episode. We are coming up on 44 years, 44 years. Can you believe that? But you know what? I thought it would be fun to talk about something that people always ask me about, which is do you get to actually go to the sets of these things? Do you get to talk to the movie stars?

Oh, you're just making all that up, aren't you? Now, after this many years, you can't make it up because it's just too difficult to think about. Wait a minute. Didn't I use that line before? I can't use that line again. You need to have that one on one contact. And that's the thing I think has been the biggest joy of covering entertainment, is actually getting to meet people that you maybe admired at some point or you like their work or you think that they're different than their public persona.

So yeah, that's been a really cool thing. And early on in 1980 was the first trip I took to the West Coast for pilot season, whatever you might want to call the new shows. And one of the things that's very common is they'll take you to the sets of various shows so you get a chance to watch them film things.

You get a chance to walk around the set and look at all of that kind of fun stuff. You get to interview the actors. It is a really kind of head turning situation the first time you do it. I have been on the set of every Star Trek series except the first one, and I have sat in every captain's chair, which is interesting because all aren't comfortable.

I've gotten to see, you know, some big back in the day they were mini series. They weren't limited series, but I've been on the sets of those. I was on the set of The Thorn Birds, which was like a it looked like a working sheep ranch in Australia, but it was actually in California and we had dinner on the porch of the of De Gaeta, which was the name of the the ranch and with the stars.

And one of the stars, Rachel Ward, was really upset because one of the producers said that she was in she was a nine in looks and at three and acting up and she got all upset and started walking away from the set of this. And all you could think about is they're not done filming this thing and she's bailing because she doesn't like what the producer said.

And they immediately ran after her and tried to smooth over this problem. And it was all happening before our eyes. Well, we were there to have dinner and watch him. She or sheep. So interesting kind of factor there. We went to Charleston for the filming of North and South, if you remember, that was the miniseries. John Jakes had a series of books and it was about the Civil War times and Patrick Swayze was one of the stars.

Kirstie Alley was another star, and that we were there for several days and they had dinner with them every night. And they were very, very fun because they would tell you things that you you know, you didn't really it never came out any other way. But they said they had given everybody on the on the miniseries a whole name.

So they were different kinds of POWs in this show. Okay. So Patrick Swayze, he because he was a dancer, was called Ho Down, and they went through the whole cast and told us all their different names. And they didn't like Lesley-Ann down who was one of the stars of it. And I said, well, what's what's her whole name?

And they said, You got to go over and ask her herself, and she'll tell you what her whole name is. So we went over to Lesley-Ann down and I said, Well, now they said, Everybody has a whole name. What's your whole name? And she says, I'm a whole show.

That's a kind of that's a stuff you don't get when you're just normally doing an interview over Zoom, or if you're calling somebody on the phone. But it's very fun to be in that environment and you see them shooting scenes and they'll do it over and over and you think, Wow, they're not never going to finish this thing because it's it's taking so long.

And I was fortunate that I was at the last day of MASH. MASH did a big movie for their final episode, but that was not the final episode they shot. They did the episode before that on on the 20th lot. And it was about buried in a time capsule. And they were there and they they did it once and they said, Yeah, we got to do it again.

We got to do it again. And so they did it again and the the guy said after that, that was good. That's it. That's the end of MASH. Thank you. And the actors all kind of fell into each other's arms and were crying. And I mean, it was a real emotional moving time and they had huge media coverage.

I remember standing near Maria Shriver, who was covering it for NBC, and they said to us, You can take anything you want from the set when you leave. And I happened to be standing in the in the shower. And so I have a bar of soap from MASH. That's my memento from that. But it was it's it's that was such a momentous kind of thing.

And even now, when you see it in reruns, it's like, wow, I can't believe I was there when they ended MASH. I sent you a bit of a list of shows that I was kind of interested in, and MASH is on my list because for me as a child, it was one of the first big shows I remember watching now.

It started when the show started. I wasn't even born yet, but as it progressed, a great but as it progressed, I grew up watching it either in real time, but also we would see the reruns. My parents would just have the show on. So I remember watching mostly the later episodes, but what a big deal it was on TV to watch that final episode, that movie episode.

It was. It was huge. It's up until recently was one of the the most still one of the most watched all time shows ever. You know, often I'll just happen to mention that I was on the set of MASH and you can't believe how this smokes out. People who are just hardcore MASH viewers. Yeah, that show early on when they started putting out DVDs of full seasons of of TV shows, it's one of the first shows that I bought on DVD because it was Watch it all.

Yeah, I've I've watched every episode of MASH. Yeah, I love that show. See And for me, it's it's very hard to go back and watch them again. I don't think I'd ever buy a box set. I have box sets, but I, I don't watch them. Yeah, but it's also a little different for you too, because you're watching so much.

Well, you're always looking at the next thing you've got to see, just to see, you know, what's happening, what's new, what's next. But yeah, and there there are fun little things. I was on the set of Gray's Anatomy and they had a party there. And in the operating room, they had this body on, you know, on an operating table.

And it looked bloody. But what it was, was it was salsa inside the stomach and you could use, you know, there were chips all around it. So that was how they were serving the chips. It's just goofy things like that that happened. If you remember, E.R., E.R. had it looked like a really bad hospital. It looked like the last place you'd want to go because it looked so kind of worn down and everything.

And they actually had a an el station outside the thing where they would use it for exteriors. But it basically was George Clooney's basketball court. And you could see where they would play basketball out there when they weren't shooting or weren't doing anything. But inside the the actual operating slash exam room, slash whatever hospital, you could see really great equipment.

And what happened was after the show became a success, a lot of these providers would just send them the equipment so that then it was accurate, but it was like state of the art stuff. So that I'm sure that if you went to your own local hospital, you say, Well, now don't you have the XR 732, which they used in E.R. and the Thecable?

No, we can't afford that. That's like 5 hours. I think it would be one of those things where people would ask for it or whatever. But it had really great equipment in there. And they said everything was as accurate as they could possibly be. They had a lot of advisors who are medical people who would tell them exactly how to hold things, how to do certain procedures.

So they got really pretty good at it. And a lot of times when you have people who are playing doctors on TV, they are expected. A lot of times if somebody collapses on an airplane or whatever, well, come on, you know what to do. And they said it's very intimidating because people expect you to be that doctor, but you're not.

But they do. They do learn a few things that might be helpful if they ever need it. So, yeah. And hospital shows are really it's a they're cheap because you can put everybody in scrubs. Oh yeah. And you have a lot of rooms that can be remade to look like another room because aren't all patient rooms the same?

They're also. Yeah. And so, but they did have hallways and stuff in terms of something that was real big, like that. West Wing really did have those hallways where they did the walk and talks and they had the Oval Office. The Oval Office was cool to see. There were a lot of fun things. And then if you look closely, one of the the coolest places that I had where we could check out things, Parks and Rec.

And I did see a little Sebastian, by the way, I met little Sebastian, the the miniature donkey hockey so thrilled. It was like, you have to see it. There is no star bigger than this. And he was cute. And I somehow I got my picture taken with him, so I was cute. Cool. But if you go inside that city hall, they have pictures and the pictures of past like councilmen, whatever, are people from their staff.

So it was fun working on a show. You can easily get a relative's picture on the wall. And theirs was also one of those kind of sets where you walk around it and you felt like you were actually in a building. That's crazy. It's interesting you mentioned with the West Wing because it is a show where there's I mean, it's a Aaron Sorkin, right?

So it's a lot of conversation. It's a lot of dialog. So I could only imagine the set being huge for a sense of just you have to do one continuous shot, even if you're just like spiraling through hallways, back and forth and weaving. They make sure that the walls are removable. So if they have to have a camera come in, they can or they shoot them through things.

I mean, it's it's very fascinating to watch those kind of shows being put together because it's a different procedure than maybe if you saw a three camera show where you're sitting in the audience, you're just watching things happen. If you watch a show long enough, especially a show that's been on for a very long time, you'll see changes to the set.

And I'm not necessarily talking about, you know, they just updated here and there or swap furniture. But sometimes when a show starts working on a shoestring budget, they don't know if it's going to get picked up beyond the pilot. They don't know if it's going to get picked up after season one. And then all of a sudden it's around for eight years and they really start changing up the set.

Have you ever gone back to a set that you hit maybe early on during a season one and then you go back a few years later and you're like, Whoa, what has happened here? This is totally different. Sometimes they will shoot on that on an existing set. There have been a lot of shows that because they weren't they didn't want to save money.

They didn't want to, you know, so they'll full house. They believe they use that set for a number of different things. So there are ones that they will go back and then when they start their own run they may upgraded or change things. But there is this kind of fear that if you have success and then you change the look, you could be inviting, you know, disaster or Mary Tyler Moore had that because remember how she had that apartment that was supposedly, you know, this whatever, Minneapolis apartment.

And then they decided to move her to another place downtown that looked a little more cosmopolitan and whatnot. And they were freaked that if they did move it from one place to another, the show would would suddenly lose its charm. So they made sure to make a big point of her taking her big AM from the old place and putting it in a place of honor, in the new place.

But yeah, they don't want to toy with that. But if you do have success, they will upgrade. You know, a lot of times look closely at countertops and kitchens. Yep. Because it's a faux painting that they do that looks like granite. And in granite it's painting. But if they have success, they may get real granite the next time they come around.

So if they upgrade this head so it has to be reinforced a little bit. Not too long ago before they ended, I was on the set of This is US, and they had that old house, you know, that the house that they used for the things when the characters were kids. Yeah. Oh my God. It was like walking back into my childhood because they had all of these things that I remembered, the TV sets that were old and yeah, even the kitchen counter where I think wasn't a crockpot that caused a problem and yep, yeah, it was all they had.

No crockpot, no crockpot. We don't have that, that kind of, you know. And the Goldbergs, I was on the set of that and it's filled with toys and crap that are, are unique to that era that they do watch it because if you're there visiting they don't want you swiping something because you like a Rubik's cube that you happen to see on a TV show and they will have things marked off or taped off.

So you can't walk there if you try or a guard will be standing there. The Big Bang Theory has a comic book, right? And that had real comic books that were expensive. And they did have you could not touch anything. And there you could have your picture taken in there, but you couldn't look at the comic books or, you know, touch any of the statues that they had and all the crap that was in their their apartment.

That was real stuff. And but you could I did sit in Sheldon's seat, you know, don't sit in my seat. Oh, and it was cool. It was big. But to see that they had, you know, if you lifted the cushions up, I didn't do this so don't. But they, I think they used it. There was an episode where they actually did put stuff down below and so everything isn't as it seems.

There are ways to kind of cheat it so that then if they need to do something like if somebody was to emerge from the bottom of the couch, they would have a hole built and they could pop up from that. So there are things like the Frazier, the the chair that the dad sat in was it looked horrible on TV and you thought, Oh, my God.

And it wasn't it wasn't when you saw it in person, they just added duct tape to the outside of it. And the cushions were really comfortable. John Mahoney, who played the dad, said it was like he loved just sitting there because he didn't have to do anything in the chair. But then Frazier also had this artwork that was original.

It was not a duplicate or a facsimile of anything. It was real art, and they did not bring it out until the night of shooting, so that when they had an audience there, somebody would hand carry that Kahului bowl or vase or whatever it might be and put it on the set. And then as soon as they were done shooting, they would remove it and put it somewhere else.

But they did not leave them out there just in case, because how would you replace it? You couldn't. That's fascinating, because I've always watched, you know, like I watch Frazier and I watch Big Bang Theory in those types of shows I would watch is like, wow, these are really good sets, especially with Big Bang Theory, because they're geeks and they've got all the toys and the other comic book type things, and I don't collect comic books.

I never really got into them. But I know what a comic book looks like in when they hold them up on the show. I'm thinking like, Wow, that's that's a really good reproduction, but it's not a real thing. It's there. And I'm sure a lot of the people who work on the show are hardcore geeks like that, and they figure when the show ends, somebody's going to have to get that.

I don't know, you know, unless they're just on loan. But I don't think they would be. I think they actually go and buy those. Yeah, but yeah. And so you usually ask the people, now when the show ends, what are you going to take, What do you want? And it's not necessarily the stuff you think Kaley Cuoco from that show had.

There was a picture that she said she always stared at and she wanted that because she remembers that's what she'd look at whenever she was sitting in a seat. She was talking to somebody. It was and it was a big nothing picture. It was not something. You go, Oh my God, it's Spider-Man 1952 now. It wasn't anything like that.

So there are things that mean something to them but don't necessarily mean anything to the show. I know that there were things on Friends that, you know, were iconic and certain people did get those, but boy, they still talk about it. Now, you say yeah, that she that Jennifer she got that and I'm still mad about it and you know, do they even put it in their house somewhere?

Probably not. Yeah. I think somebody took the door or from the set of Seinfeld because it was it was so iconic, you know, like, like Kramer flying through the door. And I don't know who it was. It might it maybe it was Jerry. But I thought one of the big actors walked away with that. Did you ever make it to the set of Everybody Loves Raymond?

But any chance I did. I did. They did. But it was like a just a regular house. Did you get to at least sit on the the couch that was covered in or zip zipped up in plastic? Yeah, well, but, you know, I was on Roseanne's couch, too, in case. Oh, yeah, Yeah. Usually they'll let you sit there so that then you can feel like you were at the show or you were part of this show or whatever.

And you meander around the sets and you look at things and you see things that you don't see when you're watching, you know, And there and I'm not naming names because but there are actors who don't memorize their lines. And so they'll stash them and they'll have things like there might be magazines on the table, and if you open up the magazine, you might find a script in there that's crazy.

So they would you know, they would act like they were reading a magazine when they were actually reading the scripts. Now, in recent years, some of these shows were done not not any big show that you know, but some of these cable ish shows, if you will, they would shoot three episodes in a week. And it was impossible for for the actors to memorize those scripts.

So they had huge, big screen TVs like like they were teleprompters that would be behind the characters so they could just read the lines off them. And that's fun to see because you go, Oh, I thought they had to memorize all this stuff. Maybe I could be an actor. I, you know, I would worry about that. But yeah, so it it varies from where you go on the Disney campus, if you will.

A lot of those Disney Afternoon shows that you'd watch on the Disney Channel or wherever were nearby each other. And it all got to be real good friends with each other. You know, they all knew Miley Cyrus. They all knew the Jonas Brothers. They all and they hang out together. They were actually friends and did things together. And it's it's amazing to see now, you know, when some of them moved on to other roles and other things, how what part that played for some it was for worse and for some it was better.

I was with the Zack and Cody kids, the Sprouse kids deal and I'm blanking, but they took me back to their their dressing room and they show me where they actually studied with a tutor. You know, they have to have so many hours a day with a tutor if you're using a kid and they can only work so many hours a day.

Though one of the boys said, you know, truthfully were able to, I think as actors were about a four. We're not that good, but we're trying to make money to get our college people. And so, you know, we buy into this. We see what this is all about. We know and they are far more sophisticated than you think on these kids shows.

These are not kids who are, you know, just throwing it out there and wanting to be stars. Some are. They're just because it's a job. Yeah, I the money and both the Sprouse boys did go to college. Now one ended up on Riverdale and they're both working in the business now but it was never the goal that that was that's kind of a byproduct that they still get to work.

And I always remember Demi Lovato telling me about kids today. I said, you know what don't they realize about being a young actor on a TV show? And she said they think it's all about the purse. I said, What? And she said, They think that you can have a really expensive purse and they don't realize what you're giving up or what you have to do.

And it's not all about the purse. And I thought, well, that that was a very kind of fascinating way to kind of size it all up, because I think fans look at these things and they think it's much more glamorous than it is. It's not sets. Are you doing these huge warehouses, kind of barn facilities where mice can easily be running around?

There's not a hesitation there. There's a huge craft services table, but you don't know whose touch that food or where that food's been, you know? So, I mean, there are a lot of things that don't make it seem like, Oh my God, here comes Greta Garbo and Clark Gable walking down the street. Not at all like that. It really is a factory.

Yeah, Factory of entertainment. Yeah. And a lot of those Disney ish Nickelodeon, Nick Junior kind of shows to that. Not I'm not saying that the sets don't look good, but you see a lot more artificial grass on the shows, which clearly isn't crass. The production value isn't necessarily is as high as you would expect either. And they would talk about how there's a Disney style at all.

But you know, where they have to do kind of those broad gestures and everything. And some of the kids really thought that that was wrong, that they didn't want to do that. And you can see where now they've shifted with some of these shows that they aren't as kind of obvious. Maybe that's a term for, but they are a little more adult and they talk about themes that are more contemporary than they did back in the day.

Any shows you've been on because you mentioned Star Trek, some of those shows, especially the SCI fi shows, where there might be a lot of green screens and and other things. Any any one in particular that we watch on TV that looks like, Wow, that is impressive. You know, there's the deck of the enterprise, but you're on the set and you're like, what is this?

What is this? This is the most unimpressive thing I've ever seen. Oh, well, Star Trek, The Next Generation. I mean, they had like an area that was basically every planet they visited. So it had parks and things and they just redressed it and put up a different. Yeah. So that that was what you're talking about. The Orville. Do you ever remember the Orville was on Fox for a while?

No, I don't. I think it's still going to be honest with me. It was Boeing, but I'm I'm not going to vouch for that. But they had an actual ship that you walked on. You walked through the whole hallways. It seemed like it was the real deal. And that's because Seth Macfarlane, who was producing it, was able to, you know, say, I want the real thing.

Okay. And you saw the costumes that were just bizarre. I got to shoot the guns that they they had. And it was like you were actually if it was a an amusement park, that's what it would be like. It was cool. But first of all, a lot of those ones, boy, they cheat a lot of stuff. You know, Star Trek was a real key one.

And if you looked at the Paramount that you would say, Well, I think I've seen this place before. What I watch sometimes you'll see buildings that they love to do schools, and it's just the outside of the of the paramount lot. Yeah. Executives place and you go well that's there's no school like that but they'll dress it up and make it seem like it is another one that was like shot at a place.

Scrubs okay. Scrubs was in a used to be a hospital and they just took it over and, you know, and there was a bet that they had going on that if anybody would spend time in the in the morgue, they would pay them extra. If they would go do that. But because it had been a hospital, they constantly had people coming in and acting like, I need help, I'm bleeding, can you help me?

And they'd have to turn them away and say, no, this is this is not a real hospital. It's a movie set of these. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One's like that. The office was shot in a warehouse kind of situation with offices. It was real offices. So when you see them all sitting around like that, that's how it was. And you could walk around all of their desks, look at everything, and they said that their computers did work and they would do like one did Christmas cards.

Mm hmm. Well, they were because they had to be on the set. You couldn't leave. You had to be there. Well, other scenes were shot because you're Mr. Right. Right. You're an actor, but you are also background. So they would do stuff like that or they'd chat to each other on their their screens and act like they were working.

Sir, there was the warehouse that was attached to it, and this was out in some industrial area, you know, outside of Los Angeles. It wasn't, you know, there was a fence up and all of that. But the the, the storage area or the loading dock was actually filled with paper. Wow. Yeah. Cool to see. Very cool. You know, And yes, I do have a name, plaque that says I'm assistant to the assistant regional manager or whatever.

But yeah, very fun because that I think those kinds of shows make it feel like you actually are. There is a lot of the ones where you're sitting in seats and they will do that If you happen to go to California and you want to see a show shot, there will be tickets available to the public. Now, usually if you go to Universal Studios, they have a ticket box or a counter or whatever that they will let you know which ones are available.

Things like game shows have a lot of availability, so you could probably go to prices, right, and sit in the audience. You won't necessarily get picked, but you could go watch something like that. A sitcom could be a little more difficult because they have different nights that they shoot and they will suck up X number of tickets just to hand out.

Or if they're really bad, they will hire people to sit in the seats and laugh. Yeah, well, and they say that they used to have prisoners that would come and sit at the. Oh, jeez. 0i1 thing I did meet was paid laughs. Or did you know that they have people who are paid to laugh? Well, I knew there was laugh tracks, but I didn't know there was paid laughs.

And these were some of those series that do not have an audience. But the kids need to know when to hold for a laugh. And we had like five or six people honest to God, this was the strangest thing I've ever seen sitting at a table, and they would get her. Her? Oh, well, oh, different kinds of laughs.

And then the directors say, Okay, tone it down a little bit here. We don't need that much. And it would it would help the actors learn how to react to this crazy this thing. But yeah, and they would like read they be reading the newspaper. Well, they're laughing or knitting or doing something else. But it was a job and I had paid laughter.

I want that. I want to be somebody who's paid to laugh. Can you get me the gig? I'm there with my luck, though I'd be on the the absolute least funny show you can think of. Like, okay, we need you to laugh right now. Oh, my God. And that's the way it is. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting to see how success changes people, because the first year of friends, nobody knew who they were.

And they were very they were more nervous than I was to interview them. And we had, they had given us mugs that said friends on it, you know, those big latte mugs or whatever. Right. Right. And they were so thrilled that the name of the show that they were on was on a mug that they started grabbing up as many as they could.

So they at least had a set of them. So here you see these big stars who, you know, went on to make what, millions of dollars serve this series, swiping mugs that were supposed to be swag that was given away to the media. And then when they had the last episode of Friends, we went to this set and they would not let us get down on the set.

Isn't that all? They don't have taken anything or didn't want us touching anything. We could not talk one on one with the actors and the boys. It wasn't like it was covered or anything. It was just that's how the world had changed. These were big stars that did not. Unless it was cleared, you were not able to talk to them.

And. Yeah, sorry, I don't have time for Bruce Miller. No, I'm not doing some low class person like Iowa. I'm speaking as the one from Iowa. Yes, I believe we have somebody who's serving coffee over here who's from Iowa to talk to him now. One of those kind of. Yeah, but it's for me, it's a fascinating thing to look at the sets and just see stuff close up, how they dress that and how they add all those things has really changed.

In the old days, it was very kind of minimal. You wouldn't see much on the counters and stuff and now, boy, they pack this and to make sure that it matches, you know, the others, they'll shoot pictures and everything and make sure that every box is where it needs. And I went to how I met your mother or father, Both mother and father, but father.

And it was such a mess on that set. It was like last year, this last year. And I thought, how would you keep track of all that stuff? Because it's just it's like litter, basically. But they, you know, they keep an eye on it. I was on the set of How I Met Your Mother just before it ended, and we were in the bar and I'm not sure what the bar.

Claire MacLaren's Yeah, what it is, okay. Gloria Bar set. And we were sitting at the table where the, the group usually sits and Neil Patrick Harris had carved his initials on the table and then he and it had plus D be his husband's name, David Burtka, and drew a heart around it. And I thought that was really cool and the picture of that.

But, you know, a little a little thing that you probably didn't know when you were watching it on on TV. Yeah. Because you would never see that. No, it wouldn't show. What's interesting to me too, is because all these shows generally have like real life exterior shots. Right? And I remember taking a trip to Boston and taking a walk to the Bull and Finch Tavern, which is where they shot the exterior shots for Cheers.

And the bar inside was kind of used loosely to inspire the look of the real bar. And I remember how cool it was like, Whoa, you know, here's the sign. And at this point, too, they had put up a sign that said Cheers, you know, downstairs because they wanted you to to recognize it. And and they had the seafood restaurant was there, too, that you can walk into.

But I remember walking down the steps to cheers and then opening the door. And then how unimpressed I was, because this is just this tiny little, you know, like eight seater of a bar. It's not anything impressive at all. And the real thing was huge. Really huge. Yeah. And it did work. So if you were there visiting, they could make you a drink.

Do you know, was there alcohol in them or was it. Well, if there were if they're shooting, you couldn't have alcohol. But when you're there there's out there with alcohol. And I remember sitting in one of the booths that were on the side with the actors, you know, it was funny about Cheers. They sure didn't have faith in that when it started.

Right? They did room. They did a room interview where you'd go in the room with the actors and they had just had five actors in the room with one reporter. And you're thinking, well, normally you'd kind of wouldn't you try to maximize size your exposure? Right? And I think we're just trying to blow it off. And then we went to a party on the set of it and we got to sit on Norm's stool and, you know, walk around and look at everything.

And it had changed. It had really changed. Once success hit again, you never know what's happened there, but Cheers is fun. But yeah, if you go to the bar, the Cheers bar in Boston, it's not the same. No, no, definitely not any. Any other stories? I have one to share. Once we're ready to wrap, let's come on out.

All right. I'm just going on. You got to shut me up. Okay, So I was sort of on the set of the movie. Annie. Do you remember Annie from 1982? Annie. Annie. Dust until come now. Tomorrow. Were you one of the authors? I know. So I went to college at Monmouth University in West Long Branch, New Jersey, and in the University.

It's on it's kind of in this old neighborhood in West Long Branch, in the centerpiece of the campus is, I believe now they call it Shadow Lawn Mansion. They used to call it Wilson Hall. They use the mansion as Daddy Warbucks mansion in the movie. So they shot almost the entire movie on location at my college. And I remember taking, you know, before I before I decided on where I was going to go.

And you take those campus visits and they bring you on tours and the big selling point at Monmouth at the time and probably still is, was this is where we filmed Danny in the hall, which is Wilson Hall when I was there. It's where the president's office is. It's where the registrar is. There's some classrooms in there, too, is always very cool.

You would get a class because they didn't have a ton of classrooms in that building because a lot of them it's a lot of very small rooms. But you would you would go in there and occasionally have a class and it was very cool to have a class there. They would have receptions for, you know, honors students there.

I worked in my freshman year. I was tutoring foreign language students who were they were struggling in English and I was helping tutor them. And the tutoring center was in the basement of Wilson Hall. And you would walk on the floor and you could sense there was something hollow beneath it. And it was because the big pool, if you remember the scene, was the pool in Annie.

That's where the pool, the pools in the basement of Wilson Hall. But they had covered it over and converted into two classroom space. So yeah, so it was, it was very, very neat. And there is a scene, I think it's early in the movie when they're first bringing Annie to the mansion and you see the car turn down into the gates.

But it's one of those scenes where if you look very closely, you could see the dorms across the street, but you wouldn't know it If you're watching the movie. You just see some building in the background. But it's like, oh, there is. There's the dorms, which is crazy. They ask anything, Well, where did you start seeing Hard Knock Life at some point?

I did not know, but I did watch. I did actually watch the movie after I went to school there because I it wasn't high on my list of movies to see as a as a child, it didn't quite appeal to me. But once I got there, I watched it. It was it was fun to watch and then see the different locations and think, Oh, LA, you know, I've been there.

I had to I had to register for my sophomore year there and I had to go pay a late book fee or something there. And yeah, that was crazy. So that's where we kind of relate to these things, is that we can find the real place that was used and go, What was that for? I know. And if you ever go on the Universal Tour or the Warner Brothers tour, anything, recycle these things all the time.

So I, you know, like you, when I was in college, I was in a movie. They needed extras and they said, if you come, you know, maybe you'll get on camera, maybe you won't. It was Ice Castles, Ice Castles with Lin, Holly Johnson and Robby Benson, and it was about a figure skater who lost her sight. And we were supposed to be in the audience watching her.

When you realize, Oh my God, she's blind. She can't see where she's skating. And then. Right. And Robby Benson comes out to greet her and everything. Well, I happened to have a camera with me because it you know, if you're not with the camera, are you anybody you need a camera. All, all situations. And these were not cell phone days.

This was back in the days of a camera. And so they were they were thrilled that I had my camera there. And if you watch for a millisecond, you will see that I am in the movie Ice Castles because I happen to have a camera and it's me holding my camera. It captured that moment when they discover that she's blind.

Wow. Is that not real? But there's my movie. Yeah, well, I don't think we can top anything else now that we know. Now we've done it. It's done it. Okay, well, we're going to do another episode like this sometime because this is fun. I enjoy story time with Bruce. Well, if anybody has shows that they're interested in or want to know about, if they want to drop us a line, we'll be glad to put them on a list and then we'll talk about them.

Because like I say, 47 years I've been just about everywhere that you could go unless there was some ban put on people. And no, you can't talk to those people. And maybe I'll tell you my Zendaya story some oh, I want to hear that one. So you can you can reach out those podcasts at least dot net. I check the email regularly and I will screen those emails and we will get back you and talk about it in a later episode.

That sounds great. All right, everyone. Well, thanks again for listening to this episode of Streamed & Screened.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's been a pretty big year for movies so far. "The Super Mario Bros. Movie," "Barbie," "Guardians of the Galaxie Vol. 3" and "Oppenheimer" have all gotten film fans off of couches and back into theaters.

And there have been a number of big streaming shows this year, including several notable series finales from "Succession," "Ted Lasso" and "The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel." Plus, HBO launched "The Last of Us" and we've enjoyed other streaming hits like "The Bear" and "Shrinking."

But how good of an entertainment year has 2023 been? Are Oscar races still a bit unclear? Will this year's movies and shows stand the test of time?

This week's episode is a report card of sorts as we have tipped past the midway point in the year.

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Streamed & Screened, an entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises, I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with the incomparable Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a long time entertainment reporter. Bruce, we're here then halfway through 2020. You know what it is?

It's report card time. It is. We have school buddies, report card time for entertainment because we're past the halfway mark. We should look at the things that are have already happened. Which ones are good? Which ones are bad? Which ones will stand the rest of the year? Because right about now, people start talking. Oscar. At which films would actually make it to that big time at the end of the year when they go, Oh, of course this is going to be a winner.

Last year we had Top Gun Maverick as kind of the one that was like, yeah, that's that's a done deal. That one's going to be in there. And it was. But this year, boy, I think I have three titles that will make it to the end of the year. Okay. Can you. Ah. Which will make it to the end of the year.

Yeah. That will be considered for awards at the end of the year. Well, Oppenheimer. Right, Definitely. Are we only talking movies that we've seen so far or movies that have happened since January to now? So we're going to go. Oppenheimer Oh, yeah. Barbie. Barbie Yes, I do. I really do think it'll be in there. I think it'll be in the.

Okay. Okay. One more. I'm going to just I'm going to throw this one out there. Spider-Man into the Spider-Verse man could be. Yes, Spider-Man could be. You know, they like to marginalize animated films. Yeah, I'm in the animated category, so it could be because it was very good. But I think air might have another opportunity. Oh, yes, Yes.

That's still on my list of movies to see. Yeah, because it had really good supporting performances. Matt Damon was good in that and Matt is all over the map this year. He's in everything and I don't think he has enough clout to get a nomination for Oppenheimer, even though he's in it. But I think he's like the least of the big names that are in it.

I think Robert Downey Jr has a better shot than he does. I would agree. Yeah. So ere is my third one. Asteroid city is one that could creep in there because of the west Anderson imprint. You know, I was going to throw that one. Yeah, I was going to throw that one out at you, too, if you could, because that's one I didn't get a chance to see it, but it's now available for, I think, streaming and DVD rental.

So I'm planning to check that one out very soon. And then I asked friends, I said, What would you put on the list? And now you're going to be shocked when I tell you this. Are you? If God, it's me, Margaret. Interesting. And that is not on my list at all, huh? But they thought it was really well done.

They thought it was a good adaptation of a Judy Blume novel. Well, you know. All right. And then, like you, Spider-Verse, I think, has a a shot at something. But I don't know if it could be best picture, but that's that's kind of where we're at. I don't think it goes beyond those films for Oscar consideration because have you really seen something that good that you you want to remember?

Yeah, we've talked about this on some some past episodes to where it's an effort for me personally to get out to the theater. I'm not I'm not going to just go and see every single film. If there's a lot out there, I'll see as many as I can, you know? And last year I saw two Top Gun and Avatar.

I'm up to about six now this year. Oh, my God. Right. Because there's like I know because there's been a lot that I've wanted to see this year. But even now I'm looking at what's still to come. And really, until we get to that Scorsese film killers, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if there's a whole lot else that I want to see.

Like the Granturismo. I know you just saw that one. I sort of want to maybe see it, but I think that's just a wait until it comes out on streaming for me. That's a fast and furious crowd kind of picture. Yeah, I wanted it to be more Ford versus Ferrari, you know, but it's not. It's it's rocky on wheels is what you get out of that sucker.

Maestro is a big one to look forward to where Bradley Cooper plays Leonard Bernstein. And it looks like he has a real shot of beating Killian Murphy for best actor. Really? Yeah, that's. That's a big one. And then that they've done a remake of The Color Purple, the the Steven Spielberg film. But now the musical version that's getting a lot of buzz.

I'm hearing things about Saltburn, which is an emerald vinyl film. I know that image is throwing you off the track here. Alexander Payne has the holdovers. Okay, so there are ones that are out there that you probably haven't heard about but are getting early buzz as potential best picture, best actor, best actress. You know, so Napoleon, that's another one.

We don't know who's going to make it. So, you know, doing might be next year might not be this year. But best actress, when you look at that very thing this year, very thin. I mean, if I'm thinking of Margot Robbie as best actress for playing Barbie, is this really going to happen? And then you have Fantasia Barrino in The Color Purple.

That's that's almost a made for nomination role, but it's a remake of sorts. It's not you know, I mean, have you have you gotten excited about that? I'm not so sure. You look at best actor Gillian Murphy is the only one that you've been hearing about for best actor. But like I say, Bradley Cooper could be in there.

Matt Damon could be in there for air. There are some other ones, Joaquin Phenix for Napoleon, for the holdovers. So there are ones that sound a little better there. But the real strength is in the supporting actor categories. That's where you're going to see some people that you've, you know. Okay. Emily Blunt from Oppenheimer. She was the wife and she was always kind of mean and nasty.

Florence Pugh from Oppenheimer as the girlfriend. Right. Right. Then from there. Are you there? God, it's me, Margaret. Kathy Bates, Rachel McAdams, potential Scarlett Johansson from Asteroid Fever. Asteroid City, rather. Mm hmm. Potential. And then supporting actor Robert Downey Jr, I think is a must. He's in there. Ryan Gosling as can. Come on. Possibly. Yeah. I loved him.

He was great. I think they always do try to throw in one there so that you think pretty pretty possibly get this this could be it. And then then they don't give it to him. They pull it from him. But you know, potential best director Christopher Nolan, because that will absolutely right. Greta Gerwig Because she did something with Barbie that wasn't just the same old crap that we've seen before.

Wes Anderson because of, you know, they like him. Scorsese Come on, you can't be him. I think you can even say right now he's in the list. Really win it. I don't know. He's always yeah, he's always left kind of off to the side, but he's a bridesmaid all the time. So. So. So you never really know where these are going to go.

But I do think that thus far we have not had a rush of strong best picture, best actor at best actress. You know, I think it's anybody's game at this point. And they they only have to get into theaters briefly by the end of this calendar year. Correct. They've changed it so that you have to have two weeks.

And it used to be you could do kind of a one week and a thing and then you open in January and you kind of take a run with it. But they've made it a little more difficult. But I think it's a little fairer and it had to be a number. It wasn't just one market in Los Angeles or some other kinds of things.

So maybe we'll actually get these ones. You never know. But the rules are a little, little different this year. Do you think there's anything that might get screwed up, too? Because, you know, there's been a few delays here and there, the writers strike now I'm assuming most of the films that are still due to come out this year are at at worst, just in post-production right now.

Correct. I mean, there's probably nothing filming. I thought they said that there could be a problem with Dune coming out in December. Will they push it to try and get there? We'll see just how we're going to go the next year. Don't worry about that. And then there's the anticipation. So that could be affected. But most of the ones that we're seeing advertised now, they're done.

They're ready. I was watching a baseball game last night, The New York Mets, they've got a three man TV booth, but then they also have a fourth person that kind of wanders around and we'll talk to celebrities. We'll talk to, you know, family of players might, you know, retired players, that kind of thing. So he's wandering around and speaks with Steve Schirripa, who you may remember from The Sopranos is as Bobby Bakula above Bobby Bucklebury.

And they were talking to him because he's doing a podcast now, I think is with Michael Imperioli, where they're looking back at The Sopranos, and I believe they're just rewatching all the episodes and kind of talking about them. Now, he made an interesting comment, and this is one that I've always thought about this show because I watched it heavily when it first came out.

And then a few years ago, I actually rewatched the entire series start to finish. And we're talking, you know, a solid eight, eight or nine years after it went off the air. And one thing that he mentioned, which I've always felt strongly about, is that it's a show that will stand the test of time, because other than the cars that they're driving or maybe the technology that they're using, like those old flip phones, or they would still make some phone calls on a payphone every once in a while, which those things don't exist anymore.

But other than those things, the show still holds up. I mean, it's just a show about relationships. Are there any movies this year that you see that are going to stand the test of time? I mean, like in Oppenheimer? Sure, because it's a period piece. So, you know, there's no reason that wouldn't. But are there movies that we're seeing this year that we're going to be watching 50 years from now?

I think we're going to see a lot of Barbies. I've said this before. I think they're going to be trying to milk that one for every dime they can get out of it. And so I would not be surprised to see Barbie two, three, four or five. It's like Rocky. You saw Rocky and you said, oh, my God, this was so good.

And then all of a sudden we're up to Rocky six. And then they're doing Creed as a subset of all of this. So yeah, I think some of those ones that are very populist, they feel that they are no lose. You can't lose with these things because there's a built in audience for it. And even if it's bad, they'll come.

This is a bad year because we haven't had a lot of variety in terms of the kinds of films that we're seeing. In fact, I, you know, when you see these last few covered years, you look and you think, do they really need ten nominees for some of those? You know, four for best picture? Because, man, some of those shouldn't be on those lists, to be honest.

Do you think they'll ever pare that back to the. It was traditionally it was five right up until whenever you know what studios are behind that and they'll make a lot of money if their show can say it was a best picture nominee. And so are they going to give up the opportunity to advertise that? No way. But I really wish they would go back to five because they were easier to get your hands around.

And then they had to have really something. It had to have it to be able to make it into the final five. Yeah. And I always feel, too, that it's like the Disney Pixar thing where one of the whatever movie they do is almost guaranteed to be an automatic in that ten and if you get a 20 right now, right.

You're going to tell me right now that Elemental is the best picture nominee. No, I think in that case, I if they're are going to put an animated one in, that's where Spider-Verse gets in their mind, because that was far better than sorry, Elemental. Yeah, I tolerated it. It was okay. But I preferred Super Mario Brothers, to be honest with you, over Elemental.

I didn't like the look of it. I thought it really cheap and it looked like something they totally wouldn't do. Like, could you see any of that? It was designed to look like an amusement park, but I couldn't imagine doing a ride where we going around and all of a sudden we're on fire. And then the next thing you know, we're in wet.

And I mean, it's like a ride. So I don't know. That's maybe they could do it as it's a water park ride where you ride through the wet part first and then you dry off, semi dries you off with a blowtorch. That's right. You know, can I just sidebar here? I'll tell you a story. Sure. There was a home show here in town way back when.

Like this is like so far back is like, was it a home or are there things that are still home worthy? And they had a thing called the environment. And you go in there and it goes through four seasons. Well, you're in the thing. So it's basically a shower, right? Because it rains on you and then it has like a cool breeze.

It goes through so winter and then there's a warming breeze summer, and then there's kind of like a wind and that's fall. And you got all of the Four Seasons in the course of the thing I did it and I thought, this is something I will never have in my house is, you know, now we all have them in our homes.

So there we are. But yeah, and that's kind of what Elemental is, is just a way to get the elements together and make it look like we're doing more than we are. But no, I, I think that has no shot. Okay. What about TV? What do you think is worthy of the TV things? Yeah. So, you know, we've talked about how it's tough to get me out to theater and this is really good, but when it comes to TV, it's easy to get me right because it's the end of the night.

Kids get to bed, you know, even if it's just 45 minutes before my wife nods off, We can we can usually sneak in something in a lot of the shows that are nominated for primetime Emmys, which have been pushed back now to early next year. Yeah, they were supposed to be in September, but there's a lot of shows that made the nominations list, which came out in 2023.

I mean, we're starting with one that that I think could clean up The Last of US from HBO. Oh, all right. Okay. You know, that was to me, HBO has been putting out some really good kind of doomsday ish programing for a number of years now. And it always feels like it's like a, you know, end of the year or beginning of the year type of thing.

And I think they went off, you know, splendidly with Last of US. I mean, that is just it. I got roped in from the beginning and it was a zombie show. I'm not a big horror person, so I'm not going to I don't want to watch gory things. And it had its moments of kind of grossness, but it was more of like the humans story of what happens to people who are put in very difficult situations.

And it's a show that's based off of a video game and they made it work. It was tremendous. I loved it. So you think it's going to stand the test of time? Do you think it'll have five years from now? People will be talking about it. I think it's the type of show that possibly they could be. Now we'll see what happens when season two comes.

You know, will they be able to continue that magic that they found in season one? We'll see. We'll see. I thought that the bear I loved in the first season and I adored it in the second season, I thought they were able to avoid a sophomore slump and make it even better because we knew the characters. So I had one.

I don't know what a three third season would be like. Maybe they fall apart and covidiots and they have no business. I don't know. I love that show. I think that was the real keeper. Yeah, I'm only about halfway through the season two of the bear, but other than I thought it was a little bit, I thought that first episode was a little sluggish, but I like how they've kind of developed the characters and given each character kind of that moment to shine, where, you know, we're looking at a sushi chef and what she's doing, and then they send the pastry chef overseas and give him a moment to shine.

So I think it's really been a good season for character development. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, and I think those stand alone episodes are good. I like that where you maybe give the other people kind of a week off and then you focus on one. I think that's a great idea that should be copied by others. There's another show that I just started as well, so I'm kind of bouncing back and forth now between between the Bear, which I just watched by myself.

And then my wife and I just started this because I still have the Apple TV plus going right now, but shrinking, which came out in January with Jason Segel, Harrison Ford, Jessica Williams. And I think that picked up a couple of nominations for it for for actor and actress. Have you seen that one at all? Yeah, and I couldn't get into it, really, one that I really cared about and you see what I mean?

Yeah, It was one where I can usually sense for my wife right away if she's going to like it or not. In comedies, it's, it can be a tough sell, but I think it has the type of humor that she likes. And it's it was co-created not just Jason Segel, but Bill Lawrence and Brett Goldstein from Ted Lasso were part of that.

So I think that kind of darker humor that you see in Ted Lasso carries over into this show. And it's one I think, you know, we're going to keep watching it for sure. And I'm already looking forward to what will season two bring. I don't know if it will stand the test of time, but but I am enjoying it as a show so far.

Would Ted Lasso stand the test of time? Yes, in less. Here's the caveat to that. If soccer finally gets so huge in America like they've been talking for the last 40 years, I remember as a kid, my parents signed me up for soccer and they're like, it's going to be the next big sport in the U.S. And 40 years later, it's doing a lot better now than it was 40 years ago.

But but man, oh man, it just cannot top baseball or football or, you know, and isn't that weird how parents get their kids into soccer? I mean, it's like manic. And every Saturday they're gone somewhere. And you think this has got to grow. It must be the kids get sick of it. And then they say, and I following it anymore, and I'm done not to take away from the accomplished.

It's because it is. I mean, you look at women's soccer in America and it's huge. I mean, it's obviously where where it's really excelled is it's become other than this current world Cup where the U.S. got bounced early on on the men's side, it just has not quite evolved to where it is. But they are still you know, MLS has been around now for 20 plus years.

It's doing well. It's you know, stadiums are getting larger, the crowds are, but it's just it's still not where the NFL is. But as long as soccer remains kind of, you know, on the periphery, then it makes sense. But but as soon as, you know, soccer becomes mainstream in the U.S. like it is in Europe or anywhere else in the world, then the humor that you get out of this, you know, American football coach, it just wouldn't make sense in here.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, how are you? Where do you stand on succession? I don't know if that one is going to stand the test of time. And I'll tell you why. Politics are very cyclical and they are taking a page out of current politics and the current state of Fox News to do that show. I think that show will will definitely hang on as being kind of an in the moment type of thing.

And and maybe a decade out, people will still be talking about succession. But if the landscape changes drastically, but also not only just at the political landscape but the technology cycle, because part of what makes that show is they were talking about, you know, how will the Waystar royco get involved in other technologies, other forms of media? And as soon as the media changes into some other format, that just doesn't make sense that we can't understand anymore, or it just seems too old.

I think it might go away, but it's a great show. I love it. Yeah, I think it's one of those ones that the hype was bigger than the actual execution. It didn't have one of those kind of creators to it. At least not that I can pin who this was. His driving project. This was his life. This is what he is putting out there.

It seemed very much like Law and order always is ripped from the headlines when you find something on it that you say, okay, let's go with it and let's go as outrageous as we possibly can, and we'll do an audience. But I don't think it's one of those ones where you go, Oh my Lord, they really came up with something here.

I want to watch All in the Family is kind of that, you know, that was obviously a comedy, but it was so groundbreaking for the time. But today you just wouldn't even think twice about that type of humor. It might not even work. I don't think about air. I don't think because they'd say, Oh, no, we can't. We're going to offend somebody here, right?

We cannot do this. It's not getting on. So I don't think it would. And that actually came from Great Britain and we adapted it and look at how well that worked out. That was a good thing. And those you know, they would do maybe six episodes and be done with it. And in the United States in those days, you had to be 20 to 30 episodes of a show to have a season.

And that's, you know, that's an interesting look at where they are. But, you know, I really I struggle a because a lot of the shows that we're watching on network TV aren't good numbers, right? And then on streaming, it's such an abbreviated season that you don't get enough time to dig in and kind of embrace it. So I don't know if I mean, you look at White Lotus, that was a big thing last year and White Lotus got a lot of attention.

But season two, okay, it's okay, but it isn't one of those ones. You go, Oh my God, White Lotus changed the landscape. It didn't. No, I think I think you're right. With the episode length, the structure of every series. I mean, I'm thinking about one what was one of the network TV shows that got a lot of buzz this year?

And it was night court because it actually did well. And I am shocked when people go, oh one, the best TV shows ever, Abbott Elementary, It's borrowing the office. It's borrowing from a lot of I mean, it's it's a fine show. I enjoy watching it now they don't have Modern Family to watch on Wednesday nights. It's my my anchor.

But it is not as groundbreaking as they want it to be, I think, because there are certain things that need to. When they did lean in to the plight of teachers today, that's where they were going. Right. But when it starts getting to be a principal who's running a side business at the office, I don't care. I really do.

Yeah. The the thing that I found interesting with with Night Court, there is a piece I read in the New York Times that talked about how they kind of followed the model of the original series, which was to not necessarily pull headlines out and make it a little bit more timeless. Right? You can, you can watch an episode of Night Court from the late eighties today, and it wouldn't you just watch and be like, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

But here's the problem with night court. Even the modern version of it, who goes back and watches old episodes of night court? I'll watch old episodes of Cheers or Seinfeld all day long. I love Night Court when it first came out years and years ago, but it's not a show that I go back to, you know, maybe if it popped on, if I was flipping through a channel nice, I was like, Oh, there's night court, Maybe I'll maybe I'll watch 20 more minutes of rent and then move on.

But I think that's the problem with that show is, is the reason why it's kind of resonating. The new version, the rebooted version is, sure, it's kind of timeless and, and it doesn't really matter and it's not right. And it's just kind of that basic comedy sitcom humor, but it's not above and beyond anything we've seen before. It's just it's a pleasant 22 minutes to kind of me I don't have to turn the channel kind of show.

Yep. You know. All right, I'll sit through it because I got to finish out the hour and then we'll see what happens at the end. 8:00. You know, it's just it's that kind of a concept. But yeah, this was not a year to remember it, even though we're going to hear a lot of. Oh, my God, this is just the best series.

This is the best whatever. I don't think so. And I think the more we get away from it, like Jan, to reward these people, the less we are going to remember about what it was that made them so great. Marvelous. Mrs. Maisel. Well, that one stand the test of time. No, not at all. Yeah, I liked it. I like I do, too.

You know, I marveled at the idea that they were spending so much money on that show. I mean, the costumes, the sets, the. And it was purely a vanity product. You know, they went to this couple and they said, what would you like to do? And they said, you know what we'd like to do? Here's what we'd like to do, but it's going to cost us some money.

And they did it. And I love that. I think that's a great thing. But there are episodes where you go, Jeez, this could have been 30 minutes. It didn't need to be 45, right? Yes, I agree. And I also think that with Mrs. Maisel, it's a little bit like Seinfeld, where it's very geographic. So for me, as somebody who grew up in the New York metropolitan area, it resonates with me.

And there's a lot of people across the country that certainly love Seinfeld, certainly love Mrs. May's all. But if if you're turned off by such a regional program like that, it's not going to sit with you. You know, with that show, I was constantly fact checking because he would bring out something that wasn't in that year. I know that wasn't in that year.

And then I'd have to go back and try and find what year this was. And the MFA wasn't right. They did the fact checking, so props to them. And like I say, I love watching it, but I don't know that that's one that I'd say I'm putting it in a box and I'm going to pull it out five years from now and I'm going to watch it and I'm going to be just ripped.

I told you earlier this during the COVID thing, I watched all of Mary Tyler Moore over again, and I loved every minute of that. It was it was like a warm hug from the past. And I was able to remember things about that era. And I laughed every every time I left. And I you know, people are big Golden Girls fans, too.

And you see them. And what I look at that right away is and I say, God, that the screen format is so small and it's kind of fuzzy. And, you know, those are the things that tripped me up. And so I don't know that I could watch some of those shows, but if they did it like Lucy, Lucy is going to last forever.

And it's because it was well-written, well-produced and well-performed. It doesn't matter when it was, but it's that stands the test of time. There's one other show that we did an episode about, you know, because we had it was like the big four that went off the air right around the same time. Barry That's another one, which it would get nominated every year.

But I always felt I like Barry, I enjoyed Barry, but I always thought that it was maybe a little overhyped. I think it had a good in it, and they're all good the first year. The first year is great. We have a vision, but then they kind of veer. And I think with Barry, he got time off Bill Hader to kind of rethink things.

And I think that rethinking maybe didn't do it any big favors. It's still well done. Yeah, but I don't yeah I don't know it once you know the kind of the ending. Yeah. I don't know that you want to watch through the other parts. Yeah. That you're a better call Saul fan right. Mhm. See that's another one I couldn't get into.

I Breaking Bad was too big for me to want to worry about another character I really liked. Better Call Saul. I thought I just saw that last season I did not love it. I didn't love the ending. That's, you know they say are they going to reward them for their last year? Yeah, I think the answer is no.

Yeah, I agree. You know, it's interesting with both Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul is I. I crushed through both series kind of in short periods of time. I didn't watch Breaking Bad when it came out. There was a covered show for me and I watched everything and I loved it. It was a good, good series. And then better call Saul.

I didn't. I knew it was out. Obviously, when I was watching Breaking Bad, but I chose to kind of wait on that one too, until the last season was done. So late last year, I watched all of the first whatever, five seasons of Better Call Saul. And then the last season finally hit Netflix at the beginning of this year or middle of this year, whenever it was.

And I slam through that one super quick. So I didn't it wasn't a show that you pulled me in or a series. It didn't pull me in for a decade because that's pretty much how long it took to get through both series. It's just I watched them within a two year period, more or less, but I felt like that one just kind of tailed off at the end and I would not have been happy if I invested six years of my life in that one, I guess is a good way to put it.

You know, one of the greatest things about being a critic is that you often get to see all of it before anybody else does. Sure. So you don't have these outside influences and you also we did binging a lot sooner than anybody else did. And I think once we threw that out there to the public, the public want they want that.

They want to be able to plow through a show in a weekend if they have to. Yeah. And I think that has affected the movie business because if you have your choice between seeing a show that you've really been waiting for or going to a marginal movie, you're going to take that show and sit at home. And let's face it, our home setups are probably just as good as a film theater, you know?

I mean, you got the big screen, you got a comfy chair, you got food nearby, you can stop at to go to the bathroom. Does it get any better than that? It does not. And so I think that's the uphill battle that that the movie business faces is they've got to try and combat that. And how do they do that?

And it's not by making the movies longer, you know, that I'm I'm on that. It's not that they want 3 hours of something. It's that maybe you've got to make that content so compelling that they have to go see it. There's one show that Season two came out this year. It recently aired. It came out in April. It's a show that I don't think it's really any buzz.

I don't think it had any Emmy nominations, but it's one that I have kind of come to enjoy because I find it to be a little quirky and it's another one out at HBO. Somebody somewhere, Have you seen that one at all? Somebody, somewhere. Help me out. Who's in it? Bridget Everett, the comedian. It takes place in Kansas.

She's a late 40, early, 50 ish single woman, somebody most unlikely star of a TV show. Right. Right. And it's an interesting program. Yeah. And it touches on a lot of topics that seem a little almost taboo because it's in Kansas, which is obviously a very conservative state. So it's kind of touches on just a lot of different things.

But I also find it to be just a sweet show. You know, it's like I watch it and I think, oh, that was a very pleasant 30 minutes I just had. Yeah, that just shows us that they're opening the doors to other voices, which is, which is good because if you were a on network TV, you'd have to have some kind of a profile or you'd have to have some like I would assume if we didn't have all these other things, it would be tick hours.

We could be bombarded by tick tock people on network television because they able to bring a crowd with them. Whereas with this, I don't know. Does she have a following? If she does, I'm sorry that I haven't paid attention. The only reason I even heard of her is because she appeared on an episode of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee with Jerry Seinfeld.

I had never heard of her before. I had never seen her standup act, which is a crazy act where she sings and it's like a burlesque show almost.

And it's wild. You know, how she ever came to get into this HBO program? I have no idea. But it's it's done very well. And I think it's just it's a little bit of an under the radar program where it the episodes aren't very long. There's not it's like eight or ten for a season. It's at the bare minimum to qualify, but it's gotten some, you know, a decent following.

The average tomatometer 100% from critics. Audience score 93%. So people like it. It's just not a lot of people are watching it, right? Yeah, You don't have the numbers attached to that is how many does that represent? Well, there you go. Back in the old days, somebody like Margaret Cho, who they loved and thought she was a great comedian and she had just something there that we have to put on television.

And then they got her a show and they changed everything that made it about her. It was like they were trying to shoehorn her into Cinderella's slipper and it didn't work. And that's what I'm afraid they would try to do with people today. Thank God there are areas like HBO where they can find that talent, put their talent on.

I think though too often they want to have something quickly. They want to have a success right out of the chute. They don't you know, you hear that a lot of times with people who are our musicians, that we had an opportunity to fail through two or three albums. And then, you know, maybe one would hit. But now with music, if you don't have a hit, they don't give you an album.

You've got to get that one shot, you know, mega hit, and then you'll get maybe a chance for a second one. And if there's enough of them for an EP, then they'll do that. And then if you sell enough money, you know, if you got to sell enough copies and you make a lot of money, then you might get a real album now.

And if you get enough, enough money, you're like Taylor Swift and you can do whatever you want. Yeah, you know, that's where that's where I almost think to an extent, Network TV is almost dead in a sense with programing because you can at least go on to you can go on to Netflix because they don't nobody releases any of their their data.

It's you don't have Nielsen ratings in the same way. So a show if they're willing to finance it and their internal numbers show that there's some sort of audience and they're not losing money off of it, it's almost like they're willing to give you an opportunity. And maybe that is where someone like a Bridget Everett can do it, somebody somewhere, because it's on HBO and it's not on NBC or CBS or Fox, and they probably would have canceled the show after three episodes.

It would be interesting to know how much they will give you to do a show. You know, is it you're getting like pennies and then you've got to try and make something out of that with pennies? Or do they throw a lot of money at you? And then if it's not good, you're out, right? All right. It's I yeah, it's a fascinating thank God we're not in that world.

We're only observing from the outside. I think it's harder to, you know, Bo Burnham I don't know if that name rings a bell with you, but he did a great, great, great COVID era special where it was just in his house. It was just him in his house singing songs that he had written marvelous. It's like really something so creative and you know that they're not going to give him anything.

They'll give him another special. That's it. But they're not going to say, Let's do the weekly Bo Burnham Show, because that's not going to happen. So it is very interesting, but I don't think this year I'm a bottom line is I don't think there's any big story to be told about the TV things that we are watching every I think that we haven't yet seen all of the the movie things, but it's pretty slim pickings at this point.

And until we see what comes in November and December, the year hasn't been written, I would agree. All right, Bruce. Well, on that note, I think we'll wrap things up and we will be back again next week with another episode of Streamed & Screened.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Most of the big blockbusters have already hit theaters and with the writers and actors on strike, most of Hollywood is at a standstill. Co-host Bruce Miller would normally be soaking up the sun of Southern California, interviewing the stars of the upcoming fall television series, but instead remains rooted in Iowa.

So instead we take a look at some streaming options that are out now or dropping soon:

One show that has become a staple of summer programming is "American Ninja Warrior" on NBC. The 2023 season began on June 5 and will be wrapping soon. Bruce has an interview with Scott Behrends and his son Ben, who both advanced on the show. Their episode will air later this month.

Where to watch

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Next week

With no end to the strikes in sight, we plan to look back at the year so far. What are the hits? What are the misses? And what will stand the test of time?

Related episode

Artificial intelligence and how we deploy it is likely the top ethical dilemma the world is facing, and recent actor and writers strikes in Hollywood have put the issue in a bright spotlight. In a recent episode of The Ethical Life — How will artificial intelligence change how entertainment is made? — Richard Kyte and Scott Rada discuss how worried we should be about computers taking over more of what we watch and read, and whether live performances and sports will benefit.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Streamed & Screened, an entertainment podcasts about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with the Ninja Warrior of the Cinema, Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter. Did you come in all stealth-like, ready to sneak in and attack this episode?

I am all ready. I am so pumped. I actually I realized that I will never, ever be a ninja warrior and I don't have any skills. And I probably would slip on the first step. So I think I'm I'm out of it. But, you know, Terry, the the new season, the third season of only murders in the building starts this week.

And it's about podcasts now. Now, yeah. You are the biggest fan of Only Murders in the Building. I've watched one episode of season one and I don't remember why I stopped watching the show. I think it was one of those deals where my wife and I popped it on. She didn't like it, and then I just never came back to it.

So I feel like nobody wants to watch people do a podcast. Oh, it's so boring, that podcasting stuff. Podcast. Forget it. That's not a career track. That's not happening. People make a living doing that. I can't believe this is terrible. Well, in the third season now, it's been going three seasons, so you missed two of them. The third one brings in Meryl Streep and Meryl Streep plays the actress who's kind of not successful.

She's she's just hoping to get a part in a in a play directed by Martin Short and he's excited because he's back on Broadway again. Yes. And there's a part for a nanny and she gets his role as a nanny. And then they start kind of circling each other like there's going to be a relationship. But the leading man drops dead in the first episode.

So is the play going to go on? What happens? It starts this week, so you should be able to keep that all kind of condensed in one little nice package and honest. Don't spoil it at the end. Who? Who is responsible? Maybe I should go back and crush the first two seasons again, because that's Steve Martin, Martin Short and Selena Gomez, is it?

Selena Gomez. Yeah. And it's weird because in the first two years they were together all the time, kind of doing the seek and destroy information thing to find out who was the killer. The third season, they're all kind of separate. So I wonder if it was a filming thing. Maybe Selena was on some tour or something or doing some other show, but she's not with the other two as much as she should be.

So it's not as much the trio, but they're all you know. Martin Short's nominated for an Emmy. The show is nominated. So we'll see when the Emmys are in 2027 or whatever, when they do start airing those things if they won for the second season. But, you know, I watched it all at once. I was able to binge it, so I felt good about that.

And then reservation dogs, are you a fan of that? No, I haven't watched that one at all. My God, my rez dogs. I love that show that is starting its third and final season. This week. And it's you know, these these kids who live on a reservation are kind of searching for something. And last season, they went to California to see that was their goal, was that they were all going to go to California to start this new life and everything.

And they realized when they got to California it wasn't what they thought it was going to be. And so now they're making their way back home in this third season, and you'll see what happens to them on that trip. They go on a bus. They thought they were going to call it a plane, but they couldn't afford the plane.

So they're riding in a bus and they stop somewhere along the way. And much happens. That's what I can say about as dogs. And then my high school musical, you know, I pitched that the last time and I was trying out that was that starts it's going to be a big thing. What's weird about this time of year is it's normally fall preview.

And if you were one of those hardcore TB watchers in your childhood, you always knew that you waited for the TV guide that would have all of the the new shows listed and you'd watch the ads that were coming and it was going to be like, Oh, I can hardly wait Thursday. And I'd memorize the schedule of all the shows are going to be on Thursday night, and then I'd be watching that.

Well, that's not happening this year because of the strikes that are going on and so there's a lot of built in material on the networks, a lot of game shows, a lot of shows that are coming from Canada that you'll see. So it isn't going to be a typical fall TV season. It's going to be, you know, kind of hit and miss.

The streaming services are still going ahead with their their programing lineup. So you'll see a lot of new shows in August, September and October that were planned to be rolling out and then they're hoping that everything will come back into shape, hopefully with the end of the strike. But we'll see what happens. It it could be weird, but it is for me, it's like withdrawal.

I'm going through those kind of shakes that I'm not going to get all my new fall shows. Oh, you sound like me right now. But. But I'm as a baseball fan. My my New York Mets have punted for the year. They traded and they traded half their team while I was out last week. And it's just it's not looking too good.

You know, you mentioned the streaming services. They're kind of secretive. We don't actually know what they have stored in the bank. I've read a few things saying that, you know, they probably have a lot more than you're aware of because they film some of these and then they just they just leave them there for a while. And then when they're ready, they they dust them off and bring them out.

They do the worst job of publicity. Can I just be honest? They really don't let you know far enough in advance what's coming. They also pick up a lot of stuff now from Asia, so a lot of Asian series because they can subtitle them and throw them out there and Paradise gave everybody that kind of confidence that let's go look at Asian markets and see what kind of shows are out there.

And then you had all the things on Netflix that they pulled out of Asian markets and there you go. Yeah. The only things that I'm really looking forward to at the moment is on Disney. Plus in the next couple of weeks, we will see the debut of the Ahsoka Ahsoka Tano spinoff, which is part of that ongoing Mandalorian book of Boba Fett Universe that takes place after Return of the Jedi.

So that's coming out on I think it's August 23rd. They've got two episodes that are going to stream that first night, and it sounds like it's going to be almost movie length, like, like 90 minutes straight of those first two episodes. And then the other one, it just came out, I think, this weekend, but I haven't had a chance to watch it yet and I don't even want to call it a good show.

But I got roped in on the first season because I'm a I'm a sports fan. Winning Time. The rise of the Lakers dynasty. It's like it's supposed to be a true story, but they they dramatize it so much. I think Jerry West, who was the GM of that those teams. Right. I think he threatened to sue because it made him look ridiculous.

So on one hand, it's kind of this oddball semi fictional account of the teams, but I just couldn't stop watching it because I found it so entertaining. You can tell it's a heightened version. You can tell that it's not you know, it's like the Weird Al Yankovic movie you could call that. That wasn't, you know, all this is exactly how it happened.

Well, it's the same way with that. With the Winning Time series, you could tell that there was a little goose there that kind of made it a little different. So I think it's fine to get that little extra something, but if you're featured in it, maybe you don't like that kind of stuff. Jerry West did not look good in that first season.

I mean, it made him look like a sociopath, but he's going around, he's throwing his MVP trophy against the wall. It may be kind of ridiculous. I don't know. Maybe it did. But, you know, it's nice entertaining. Yeah. You could be watching Kim versus Connor, the divorce series that's coming up. Yeah. So, you know, who knows? There's a lot of strange stuff going on and there are, you know, new sequels that are coming out, new kinds of series, animated series that are out there.

But again, it's not like you're not going to get a heads up on all of this. You need to do a little research. In fact, today I got a thing about a new Netflix series that I had never heard of, and I thought, wow, this is this is kind of odd that they would drop it that quickly. But, you know, there you are.

Archer's coming out with another see a season a let me ask you, though, about that Star Wars stuff. Do you like all those kind of morphing things that they've got that are coming out of the Star Wars universe or are you you know, like you say, is this too much? I'm kind of mixed. On one hand, it took them so long during that George Lucas period because he did the three movies and then he said he was done and then he did the prequels and then he said he was done and then they sold it to Disney.

And then once that happens, you know, you're going to we're doing everything. We're doing everything right. I think they've done a pretty good job with some of the shows where I want the good ones to keep on coming out. But, you know, I looked at the Emmy nominations and the Obi-Wan Kenobi mini series got nominations, and I thought that was me, you know?

Yeah, he was Ewan McGregor was a really good Obi-Wan Kenobi. I thought he he did a nice job honoring the legacy of Sir Alec Guinness as Obi-Wan Kenobi. And I was really looking forward to that series. But it just it was. Yeah. And I can't believe it actually got nominated for awards. Now, Book of Boba Fett was okay.

It had some ups and downs. I think The Mandalorian has been generally pretty good, but it even this last season was it felt like a little bit of a downer to me. I'm looking forward to season two, which is supposed to be the final season of Andor because I thought that one was really good. And the funny thing is I still think that Andor was the best of all the series so far that they've done.

It's just been amazing to me. And the irony is, is I think Rogue, one of all the new movies that have happened is really been the best of the movies that they've done too. So it's just kind of ironic that that the same character arc is the one that I've been attracted to the most. I am looking forward to this.

So Kitano series, I know my daughter loves the character. She's she watches the Clone Wars episodes all the time and just loved it. So I'm looking forward to watching the show with her, but I don't know what we're going to get. And supposedly they're going to take these series and it's part of that theatrical release. They're going to tie up all the loose ends in one big movie that's going to bring Ahsoka, Boba Fett Mandalorian all together to tie up some sort of story arc and who knows when.

But that's still going up. Page from Marvel. Yeah, but they're just not doing a good job at it that, you know, you hear about people who are such hardcore Star Wars fans, but are they Star Wars fans of the original, the, you know, the classic three films and that's what makes them Star Wars fans and these other things are kind of dip in and out.

I don't know how that how that plays. It's interesting because of the generational differences. Also because if you talk to someone like me who's a Gen Xer, we don't really love those prequel movies at all. We love the three originals, but the prequel movies not so much. But my my youngest brother, who's a millennial, he was my age when the prequels came out compared to me when the original series came out.

So to him, he loves The Phantom Menace and he loves those three movies because that's what he grew up on. So I think there is a generational thing too. And then my daughter, who's 12 years old, this is all she knows. She knows the three newer movies that came out, the cartoon series, all that stuff. So I think I think it just depends on when you come into the series.

It's like your favorite animated film. It's when you were kind of in that, what, 10 to 12 age range, where that was the movie that came out. And so that becomes your all time favorite animated film. And I think when you look back on those original three, we've we've seen them here in concert versions with a symphony, you know, they show them on the screen and then the symphony plays underneath.

They do all the music accompaniment and you see all, my God, these are kind of slow or these are kind of like hacky. Yup. And that's the original ones that you thought were just like, the best ever. And when you see them in a different light, it's like, Oh, but so I don't know, you know, as one who isn't.

So I'm not a Star Trek person either, but I would am not sold on like, Oh, I've got to see the next one. That's going to be my, my future, my life. If I don't see that the world is ended. You know, I have no buy in like that for those kinds of things. And maybe it's because I think they're always dragging us around by a leash.

So I don't know. You know, you bring up before we kind of move in to the the main event, if you will, that I did want to bring up a little bit more just because the strike has created a few interesting things. You know, number one, it's it's shut down some production while shut down most production, you know, with some some exceptions here and there.

But I read recently The Little Mermaid, now it's made over $500 million globally, but it's kind of being looked upon as a failure for Disney. And they have since, you know, it's been leaked that The Hunchback of Notre Dame, notre Tom the the they were going to do a live version of that and it's done it's they've canceled it Well there's a hunchback Broadway show too that's been on the books for a long time.

So maybe they want to lean into that first before they do a film. But The Little Mermaid, they overhyped. Yeah, they they pushed that way too much. It got caught up in all of that kind of wokeness, if you will, that people were asking about. And I think that just just undercut it. I thought it had too much.

It was way too much, you know, like when they went under the sea, there was like, is it crowded down there? Is it that much stuff that you want to be like? No wonder she wanted to get out of that Sea World. She wanted it be a little less congested, but they tried to heart. And I think that's always where you go wrong.

Sometimes the simpler the better. And that's I think the Little Mermaid shot itself in the foot. Yeah. Or jail or whatever. I can't get into any of those live action remake. Oh yeah. The bunny rule. It's a mean it's all it is And I always believe that if you know, if you really loved like The Lion King, for example, rerelease it, you don't need to see a live action version where you go, Oh my God, that thing looks like he's going to kill you, right?

You know? Yeah. So it just it's my take on it, and I wish they would do that. There used to be a time when they would rerelease movies like the animated Movies, and you go, Oh my God, it's coming back. It's coming back. But see, then the DVD market just made it. Well, I got it in the closet.

We can watch it any time you want. Yeah, I don't mind. Yeah, I don't mind a remake in some cases. You know, I find it interesting is okay, you do Ocean's 11 in the sixties with Frank Sinatra, and now you want to do an updated version of it with George Clooney. You sure? I might check that out. Or, you know, The Manchurian Candidate, where you may you may want to update it for The Times.

And it's sort of the same movie and the concepts, but you updated for the modern times. I don't mind that, but if it's done well, but for something, if you're just going to do like a straight pickup of of the movie, I fell asleep during Mulan. I couldn't even watch that one. I, I went to a drive in theater to see The Lion King with the kids.

It was okay. I mean, I kind of laughed a little bit when John Oliver, he was doing the voice of of the bird, but it was I didn't need it. Yeah, there's way too much expectation and little delivered is what happens with that kind of stuff. And you know, they're looking for a money bag. It's if they can make a bunch of money off this and then they have more toys, you know, they came out with more Little Mermaid dolls.

So that's a whole industry in and of itself, I'm sure. And when Little Mermaid first came out, they as an animated film, they said they couldn't have a red haired era one because they never had one. She's got to be blond. And Ron Clements, who was one of the directors, had red hair at the time. And he said, No, I really like to see a redheaded heroine.

Well, that was like, though, the most difficult thing to bring to pass. And look what happened. It was a huge. So now they're looking to make sure that every segment is represented. And oddly enough, Barbie has done it. Yeah, Barbie, all of the Barbies in there, any kind of Barbie, you could have ever wanted. They're there and they're they're selling dolls like crazy.

$1,000,000,000 now. Yeah, it's it's huge. But I, I really caution them now when they do a sequel, if they're doing a sequel and I'm sure they're doing a sequel, that they use the same kind of sensibility. And if Greta Gerwig isn't doing it, then go with another indie director that has a different take on Barbie, you know? But if you're just trying to do more of the same, good luck.

It's just trying to merchandise, that's all. Interesting thing with Barbie, I did read that none of them are under contract to do another movie, so if they are going to do a sequel, they're going to have to get the gang back together. And, well, I feel like you could do Asian Barbie and Asian Cat and then you could do a story with that, and that could be a whole different thing.

And I'd be I'd be up for it. But you can't kind of, okay, we're going to put in, you know, Reese Witherspoon as old Barbie and all Barbie is going to be playing around with Ben Affleck as old man. I don't think that's going to work. No, no, no, no. Good luck. And I think sometimes those things should be left alone.

It's it's great to have a great idea and move on from there. You know what's interesting, The first big Black summer blockbuster and I think I've mentioned this before on the blog, the on the podcast, rather, is was Jaws 1975. I believe it was huge. And it kicked off this whole thing of summer blockbusters. We didn't do it before 75.

We didn't look forward to a film that was like going to be We must see this. And then we've had it ever since. Well, now this year they're doing a Broadway show about the making of Jaws and how difficult it was. This called The Shark. Some of it has to do with the shark. The shark didn't work or the shark doesn't work.

And all the kind of trouble they had, it's written by Robert Shaw's son and he's in it as his dad. And it's kind of weird that this comes full circle now with all this time. But yeah, there's still look they this year Meg to Meg too is another one of those kind of sea creature things that is trying to eat and destroy.

It's the same stuff they will repeat until tomorrow comes and we tell them no more and then they'll still repeat. They'll still do. I mean, you look at all those horror movies, how many times have they brought Freddy back or whatever, or Jason, and you think, Oh, good, he's dead now. And like Halloween, they just did a threequel with Jamie Lee Curtis.

And I don't know how they could bring that guy back again because they ground him up and everybody in town saw it. But hey, it could happen. Be ready. Those Fast and Furious movies, too. They keep bringing all their characters back from the dead to a well. And then it's not even a horror movie. No. And that they do all that kind of air stuff that you think, wait a minute here, now we don't want this.

Let's just go back and look at the past. And as I always use the Polar Express as my all example of why we don't need a guide, you stop right there. Not a fan of that. Oh, I hated that movie. That movie creep me out so much. I thought, it's a Christmas horror film. And those people looked all kind of dead and scary.

And even Tom Hanks, who was in it, looked bad. He did look terrible. Right. And he played so many characters so that I wouldn't show that to a kid. I'd read the book two of them before I'd show them that movie, because that movie was dreadful. Oh, yeah. So what do you have for us this week? You've got a little interview.

Okay. So you know, you know that I'm a huge fan of American Ninja Warriors. I would love that show because it's everything I can't do. And I love watching and I love cheering them on. And I think all if they only had done this or if they'd run faster, if they'd done this and they're getting near the finals.

And that's another thing I always worry about is I never get to see the finals. This year I am clued in because I talked to a father and son, the first father and son to make the finals of American Ninja Warrior, and they tell me it's the last week in August that the finals will be held and you'll get to find out who actually won.

So this is my my impetus for watching that. Scott and Ben Behrends are their names, and they have created their own Ninja Warrior gym, for lack of a better term, and they train you on each of the apparatuses or apparatus I that you would see on the warriors, so that then you would be able to try and do it because that always freaks me out is like, Oh my God, they threw in something.

Now that I've never I've never seen this thing, how do I grab it? What do I do? And I you know, I was curious about some of the kind of technical aspects of this. Like I said, do they wipe the equipment off after somebody has been through it? Because what if they were a real sweater and they were sweating up all of the equipment and then you have to come next and you slip because they didn't wipe the step up, but they do wipe the stuff off.

So there is your $0.02 worth on that one. But they do say it's hugely popular. They have little kids that are in their gym doing this whole kind of ninja stuff. They have a series of YouTube videos. If you want to follow them. You can see, you know, the techniques and the training things that they tell you. But it is, I must tell you, sorry, dear, it's a young man's game.

Scott The father tells me that kids have an advantage at this that we don't have. Although they did tell me, you know, Bruce, there is somebody at our gym who's 70 years old and about 70 years old. That's like, close to me. I don't like hearing that. That's old. But there they are. But yeah, so you'll hear them talk about what this is because it was fascinating to me.

If you're fast as fascinated as I am about this, you'll hear kind of the secrets of what it's like to be a ninja and what they go through and what's better. Should you wear long pants? Should you wear short pants? Should you go shirtless? All those things that you probably have wondered at some point, is that the advantage or the disadvantage that will keep you from being that big winner at the end?

So this is Scott and Ben Barons and they're from Cedar Falls, Iowa. This show is an obsession of mine. I love watching it. Awesome. I know that I could never, ever do it. And I think that it takes a special kind of person. Do you guys see that to get to a point? I think it's definitely the right kind of person.

But, you know, it's fun seeing all kinds of ages jumping in and figuring out, you know, what they what they didn't think that they could do that they can actually do. So, Ben Caplan, are there certain skills or certainly exercises that you need that you have to be able to do to be able to compete pull ups? I know that that's the trick.

I mean, obviously, like any sport, there's just a ton of technique that you learn over the years. And, you know, I it's definitely a up and coming sport that like anything, the more training you have, the more experience you have on the courses. I mean, it definitely pays off. It's I would say there's especially once you get to a certain level, there's no chance anyone that hasn't done this before could ever even keep up with.

But the early start, the faster you get better. So if you start young like you do, it's a good thing, right? Very much so. So are you better than Dad or not? Maybe. Maybe there's you know, there's no maybe there. He's competing pro and doing quite well where I'm in the Master's division. And that old timers. Is that what that means?

Exactly. Yeah. So I'm 82 and yeah, that's, I mean it's just a whole nother level, you know, it's like going from college to pro sports. Like it's, it's maybe even high school to pro it's, it's a huge jump when you're 42. How old are you? I'm 60. Is that kind of a good wheelhouse to be in or. Yeah, right.

Year or is five better? Yeah. Right now a lot of teens because they've, you know, been doing it for six years or so 6 to 8 years like me. So basically right now the best things in the world are, you know, 18, 19 years old and there's a bunch of young. So yeah, so again, we're aiming for that big that big prize you you're the first father son team to make it to nationals.

Is that right? Yes. Yep. On American Ninja Warrior. Yep. We're the first father son duo to make it to the national finals. Did you know that going in that you would be the first or did you just not even think about it? Yeah, I. I actually had no clue. We didn't really know until it kind of happened and they announced it and I'm like, Oh, I guess I never thought of that.

Yeah. So it's pretty exciting. So is there competition between the two of you? Do you compete and say, Oh, I did that one better than you did? Or I think the competition is if I ever beat Ben, it's incredible. There's a few things that I'm generally good at doing an obstacle. The very first try. Yeah. And that most people don't know this, but an American ninja warrior, you don't get to try anything.

They just kind of tell you the rules and you have to go. So generally it pays off. If you can be good at your first try doing something. And I'm I'm pretty good at that. But since I'm so old, I need to rest and recover between obstacles where he's just motoring through it, you know, keep sprinting. Yeah. You know, the thing that bothers me is do they wipe this stuff off after somebody's been on it?

Because I would think, what if you had sweaty hands in front of you? And then they they've touch things and you kind of slide off things. Do they do that. Yeah. So they actually have like grip tape on the obstacles. Nothing, almost nothing is just like a straight metal bar, right? There's usually tape or something on it that's grippy to help you.

And then obviously if you know it gets where splashed onto pads, it'll dried off and stuff before you run. Okay. Because I worried I could just see this sweater person that was in front of me who would go through the hole, Is that bad? So I throw that the forward part of me and then I would drop right away.

Yeah, there's some of that. But like he said, most of the top rob schools have like grip tape on them, so it doesn't really affect you as much. You're not allowed to talk on the show until the very last stage, if you will, for finals. So then in that can be a good thing, right? Because the course courses, number one looks cleaner.

And number two, sometimes charcoal after a while does kind of compact and get slick. When you are preparing for this, how do you know what kind of obstacles they might have when you get to, you know, the television stage? You know, you don't you really can't usually will go back and watch seasons before just to see what obstacles they've had, you know, what obstacles they thought up last year, because usually the newer ones will stay.

But, you know, we really have no clue whatsoever. Well, then which ones are your worst and which ones are your best, like obstacle wise? Yeah. Yeah, Which ones are you really good at? You go suck. I think I would say I'm I'm pretty good at any kind of big dynamic move that kind of throws you and like I said, I can generally hit an obstacle pretty well.

But it's the long grip endurance ones that really tax me fast. I just don't have that endurance as much as I used to. Oh, I would say mine is like I would say it's a lot of endurance, but also like change of direction. It's basically when you're like hanging and your kick, your swing is going one way and you got to change it and take a different direction.

I'd say that's probably one of the best that which are the ones that you can't do well. And you it's so hard to get consistent on balance. Like that's that's basically the thing that every ninja fears is falling on balance because yeah, so our to be consistent and on and on the show those are obstacles that are generally more sketchy balance I'll say where it's just kind of sprinting across these obstacle work.

Those are sometimes hard to set up in a gym, right? Because if you fall on those, you fall in the water. But if you would fall in a gym, you'd might like roll your ankle or how, you know. So I kind of all those like say a prayer and run across obstacles and you know, ninjas practice just sprinting through something.

Yeah generally it's not a slow slack line type balance. It's generally a sprint across. So but yeah, every, every ninja loves upper body and rarely do they like balance. What about the water? Is the water cold? Yeah. So obviously. Well a lot of people don't know is they film at night so it's you know in California it's still cause you know 40 degrees or depending on the time of year.

Yeah. Depending on the time of year. It's like 40 degrees at midnight, you know, that's an hour competing. So water's outside temperature. So it's not very not very warm, but usually you're zoned out if you fall. So you don't really feel it, but you start to dry off in the way the finals like that. Have you gotten hurt?

Neither of us have really gone out on the show. There's a couple people that have. But yeah, when you look, you know, sometimes when they fall, they'll hit like the wall. The the water wall. And I think, oh my God, they hit their head. Something is bad here, but I'm assuming it's really padded. So that yeah, the show does a fantastic job making sure everything's as safe as possible.

And, you know, I mean, even training kind of going back to obstacles and what what to work on for the show is like, we don't even know. But you have to kind of put yourself in these kind of big situations. Yeah. You have to figure out, right, that

 situation. So sometimes I'm less likely to do this because I'm 42, but sometimes you kind of put yourself big, huge moves like the show has and you know, if you fall off of that at a gym, like I don't care how much padding you have, it's you're going to feel it.

So a lot of ninjas have kind of been through in, you know, you almost practice how to fall. Yeah. So overall, I mean, like I said, the show does a fantastic job making sure everyone's safe. When did you first get interested in this? At what point and what prompted it? Yeah, so I think the first time I ever, like, fell in love with Ninja was actually not Ninja is gymnastics and P.E. and I just loved it.

And my dad made a course in our backyard. And your gymnastics course you're taught. Yeah. They kind of made, like, an obstacle teasing, just stuff. Yeah. And that's how back door indicated was born was offer making courses in our backyard and then we discovered snowballed from there. Yeah. So Backyard Ninja Kids is a YouTube channel. We started up shortly after they boys came home and we started making obstacle courses in our backyard.

Wanted to kind of become that positive influence on social media and teach my boys at a young age what that looks like. And then, yeah, a couple of years early, several months later, we went to our first ninja gym down in Saint Louis and it kind of snowballed from there. And then a couple of years later, we opened up our gym ninja view and yeah, boys were on American Ninja Warrior.

JR What cool thing was the gym wasn't even open, so they just had backyard experience and maybe one or two gym experiences really. So it's kind of cool to see. That was their very first ninja competition. Was this TV show. Wow, Really cool to see how they performed realistically, just using backyard, like not even really crazy or moves or anything and just but kind of talk.

Going back to what we said at the beginning, like they just knew the moves, they knew how to do peg boards. They knew how to, you know, do some dynamic stuff, but you put yourself in a position and you got to figure it out. When do nationals happen or have they happened in? You already know how it all worked out.

Yeah, yeah, it's already been recorded. And yeah, you just have to tune in and see what happens. I guess you have a date for the finals. You know, this is the other thing I get about this show. Okay? I'm sharing it with you so you can share with the others is they don't billboard enough. When the finals are, it's like suddenly it's like, wait a minute, I went away for a week and it's not there.

So they need to make a better attempted letting you know when the finals are. But would you we know when they they'll air We we know that our episode will be August 28. Okay. At least currently sometimes, you know, playoffs are different things than they go as it was. The Olympics can shift it right, that ours will be August 28 and yeah well, do they swear you to secrecy and then they'll kill you if you say anything is that.

No, that works. I mean yeah, it's it's a it's a, you know, a sporting event that's based on a reality TV show wrapped around it. Right. So of course, they don't want any I mean, just like American Idol, right? It's already done and recorded. But they you can't give away the winner otherwise. No, I don't know. So. Right.

You don't see that kind of thing. Yeah. I get about being quiet about it. I would be that would be tough. It is tough sometimes, but it's also like there's this exciting element, right? Like sometimes like even when I wasn't on the show, but my fellow gym mates were like, It's kind of fun to see them on the show, but it's like when you know the results, it's like not quite as fun.

Yeah, you don't so necessarily want to watch it. Like this season it's less fun to watch because I know how everybody does. Yeah, but like seasons before that. I love it. Yeah. Thanks Bruce, for that interview. I will probably have to go and check that out. I know the kids love to watch American Ninja Warrior, so probably have to tune in near the end.

And least I think I'm like you. I've never actually seen the end. I'll watch it periodically during the summer because it's on and it's just there and I need something, but I have no idea who's ever won or I'm counting on you training. I want you to be a warrior right down there on the sideline in the t shirt, cheering you on like crazy.

We'd call you. What would we call you? What would be a good name for you? Oh, man, the pod master that were there. I am. So they're pod master. Pod pod board. I would slip and fall immediately. I'd probably hurt myself before I even got on to something I'd be getting out of that year. Would they announce you and you come out and you stand there, Fall down, Break in there.

There we are. There we are. So we here at LA Enterprises produce quite a few podcasts across the company. Another one that I thought I'd bring up as we close out this episode, it's called The Ethical Life, and it's hosted by Scott Rodda, a colleague of mine who manages social media. And he he does it with Richard Kyte, who is a professor at a university in Wisconsin and their most recent episode of The Ethical Life.

It's called How Will Artificial Intelligence Change How Entertainment is Made? And they talk about the ethical aspects of the great debate as far as AI goes tied to movies, because that's one of the things that is holding up these negotiations with actors who fear that AI is going to come in and, you know, maybe take some of their jobs and and that kind of thing.

So you if you get a chance, go check out the Ethical Life. How will artificial intelligence change how entertainment is made? It is available on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Can you do a link? We will have a link in this episode. Show notes as well. Go ahead. Oh, that sounds great. Well, I'm counting on it, but I am an A.I. A.I. person because I can just imagine what they can do with that and how.

And so, you know, you're I'm I'm fully confessing that I don't like it, But maybe there will be that one instance where you say, I love that. That's so wonderful. It's the best thing ever. And Marilyn Monroe is back. But I don't think I want it. No, it's an interesting conversation if you get a chance to listen to it, because they do talk about just even the evolution of special effects.

And, you know, we as watchers, viewers of movies, TV shows, would we even notice it if if they used A.I. because we've gotten so used to seeing such crazy special effects. So, you know, they talk a little bit about the evolution of, you know, like a Christopher Reeve in Superman years ago, being hung with wires and all that stuff.

And now you've got, you know, all these movies being produced with A.I. and other other animation in ambition. Right. Right. You know, what happens is usually they work two weeks and then they're done and everything else is being done by an animator to make sure it looks like they've just done all that kind of stuff. I even question if sometimes the superheroes are wearing the costume.

I swear it's a stunt man who wears the costume. They throw him around a little bit and then if they need to, they superimpose the face of the actor on them. So, yeah, see what happens. But that sounds fascinating. That's what we want to watch next week. You know, what I'd like to do was that I'd like to look back at the the year to date and look at the things that were and the things that were misses and the things that will last.

It sounds good. Yes. Let's do that. All right. Make your list. All right. I'm going to start making my list. I will check it twice. We'll see. Oh, we know that Santa Claus. That Santa Claus. You're going to be a ninja. Remember? I am a die hard. But. All right. Well, on that note, we will wrap this show.

Thank you again for listening to this episode of Streamed & Screened.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

As kids across the nation start heading back to school another group is about to graduate. The Disney+ series "High School Musical: The Musical: The Series" concludes with its fourth and final season and all eight episodes will drop on Aug. 9.

Here's the synopsis from Disney:

After an epic summer at Camp Shallow Lake, the Wildcats return to East High where they prepare a stage production of “High School Musical 3: Senior Year.” But plans are disrupted when Principal Gutierrez announces that Disney has decided to make the long-awaited “High School Musical 4: The Reunion” movie on location at their beloved high school.

We discuss the upcoming final season on this week's episode, have an interview with series creator Tim Federle, and chat with cast members Frankie A. Rodriguez (Carlos Rodriguez), Julia Lester (Ashlyn Caswell) and Dara Reneé (Kourtney Greene).

Next week

Most of the biggest summer movies have already hit theaters and with actors and writers are on strike, there may soon be a lack of programming. But with the 75th Primetime Emmy Awards (originally scheduled for Sept. 18 but now delayed due to the strike) coming up, we'll go over shows you can binge to get caught up on in the meantime.

Where to watch

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Streamed & Screened an entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with my cinematic guidance counselor, Bruce Miller, editor for the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter. Bruce, School’s in session. We're getting there.

Okay. We're going back to 2006, I believe. Okay. Wasn't it six High School Musical just popped on Disney. And I'm not kidding you because I remember interviewing the people for the TV show, Zac Efron, Vanessa Hudgens. They were nobodies at that time. You didn't know about them. If there were people that you did know they were on other Disney Channel shows and people didn't expect anything out of it, it was like, This is okay.

They're doing another kind of musical just to have something else to show. And that that first movie became such a huge hit and made such big stars out of its cast that of course, there's got to be part two and then there's got to be part three. And then, you know, a network like Disney gets all kind of excited about, could we reboot this thing?

Could there be something more? And people don't want to go back to what it was and just replace it. So Tim Federle, who was a Broadway actor, dancer, whatever, came up with the concept that they would do a series set in the high school where they filmed High School Musical. I know this is all nutty, right? And then how those kids would do if they did the first production of High School Musical, the play or the musical at their high school.

So you got to see kind of parallel characters vying for these roles. Well, they did not know that it was going to be a hit. In fact, Tim really had no experience producing, was not big on creating TV's shows, and they got a hit out of it. High School Musical: The Musical: The Series, which is probably one of the longest, most cumbersome titles ever hopped with the new generation.

They got their own high school musical kids. The thing that I think is different between the two is that first was kind of naive, whereas this one leans into a lot of things with with high school kids that maybe they're facing today. And it does talk about things like LGBTQ issues, bullying, different kinds of things that that might be a little more contemporary for kids.

So in that first year, they did High School Musical as their school play. Then they came back and they did Beauty and the Beast. And then the third year they went to camp and they did Frozen Oak. So now this is the fourth year. And I got to tell you, the kids who are in this, this TV series have popped like, you can't believe Joshua Bassett, who plays Ricky, which would be the Troy Bolton kind of Zac Efron equal, has a huge singing career.

Olivia Rodrigo, who is in the original of the of this this ilk won several Grammys last year. Right. She has this big music career and it just keeps going like that. Julia Lester, who was a supporting actress, was on Broadway this last year and into the Woods and got a Tony nomination. So this is spawning its own group of of young actors.

Well, knowing that they had a fourth year, Tim decided that he would not take those original high school musical people and see if he could get them to come in for the fourth season. And in this fourth season they are going to film a high school musical this year. Yeah. Who did? How do you tell this? They're going to do a reunion show and bring back those actors and then cast kids from their high school?

That high school as extras. Okay. So they do all this at the at the high school and it turns out to be a real catalyst for change for those current high school kids at East High School. So it's there's a lot to unpack, but there are things in there that you will just who that the woman who plays the director Quinn is There is the character's name.

You've seen her in YouTube videos and she is just a hoot as the director. Well, she has these big plans and she plucks one of the kids from the high school crowd to be one of the stars. And that sets up a kind of a battle, if you will, for her attention in her time. So it's very it's very fascinating at the end of the episode, and this is not a spoiler alert.

You get the kids all together and they sing a song that is so emotional and it's not one of the ones from the original High School Musical. It's a Broadway song that really kind of gives you a sense of what that whole family atmosphere was like.

Wow. So this is an interesting one. You know, Tim Federle, he he really doesn't have the background in in film and TV. I mean, he started out he was writing fiction. I mean, he was writing I think he wrote some cocktail guides.

And then he also wrote some kid books. And some.

Kid books.

Yeah, they're better. Better off. Nate or better Nate. They're Nate books about a kid who it sounds like Tim story who wants John Broadway in the worst way. And to heck with the kids in my school. I'm going to audition for Broadway. And so this Nate kid, and they did a TV movie about this goes on a bus to New York auditions for a I think it's a Lilo and Stitch in the film show a musical.

And how that kid kind of maneuvers that all of that kind of stuff. But there are elements in all of this that I think are autobiographical. Tim Federle said he always wanted to be an actor, a Broadway actor, and he did get on Broadway. He was in Little Mermaid in the dancing roles. But I think like so many of them, there is a greater purpose that's out there.

And he just had a good idea, pitched it to Disney and they said was go with it.

Yeah. And he picked a I guess a good time to do it too, because he he co-wrote the screenplay for Ferdinand the film and which was before that. So he had a little bit of credibility to be at it. That was a yeah, you know, he capitalized on the moment, which is great. You know, he was he found that moment.

You'll hear I did an interview with three of the actors from High School Musical: The Musical: The Series and Tim, well, you'll hear them talk about that first year. They did not know what was going to happen. They did not know if it was going to go if they were going to. This is one and done and they were all out of it.

But how this has been a big kind of a learning curve for them. And Tim talks about bringing back those old high school musical ones and the lessons that they taught these these young actors about being in the business. And, you know, it's weird to see because Tim's got a whole huge career ahead of him. He's got deals with other studios and stuff.

So I think we don't have to worry about him. But you never know with kid actors. It could be they're out of it after one year or whatever. What happened to him was the pandemic happened in the middle of all of this. How do you do a series during a pandemic? And they really struggled to make sure that they were following all the COVID protocols and all that and how they you know, they were just hung together.

They became a very close family.

Okay. So who should we go to first? Should we go to Tim first? We kick it over to him again?

Yeah, let's go to Tim, because then you'd be able to kind of hear his his take on how this this season happened. How is it to say goodbye? This is a sad thing.

Well, you know, it's it's it's bittersweet, mostly sweet. And I don't think of it as goodbye because when people graduate, they they go off hopefully to even sort of bigger dreams. But it's it's definitely full circle. And I think in this streaming era to get four seasons, it all feels like a miracle and an extra miracle is I got to kind of wrap the series on my terms with the stories we wanted to wrap up.

So I feel really good. But it's it's a it's a full circle moment.

Well, when you were planning this last season, what point did you say, I want to get some of those original people into this.

Really early because I knew that the big hook of the season was that Disney announced High School Musical for a reunion film at East High, which means, you know, we needed some O.G. Wildcats up there on screen. So those fun phone calls went out early before we started production. Yeah, pretty early.

And were you able then to write like you did with Corbin, where he became a different person, if you will, in your series as opposed to the original one? Like, yeah, she's these other people where they all they're really nasty. They're not like they are.

No, they're, they're themselves and they're and Monique Coleman in particular has a really beautiful moment in the series in season four that I think is so touching because they play themselves and their characters this season. They're a great group. And what was meaningful to me, knowing we were wrapping the show was that Corbin and Lucas and, you know, they became so mega famous 15 years ago as the cast of my series is becoming now.

And we were able to really have like a wholesome, beautiful connection between them all. And I remember saying to my principal cast, Look at our humble. They've remained look at how they take care of each other. No matter what happens, you guys got to be there for each other as the years go on. And I think they really.

When you started this, what really did you think would happen? I mean, did you just think, Oh, we'll get a year and that's it? Or do you think, you know what, this could last?

I knew so little about TV that I think I was out front first season being like, I want seven seasons, which, you know, I guess would have been nice. But the reality is the reality is, Bruce, I was thrilled we got the reception we did in season one. I never took for granted, particularly in the streaming era, that we would ever get another season or another season or another season.

And I think one of the real drivers of wrapping the series up was that I didn't want to end season four on a cliffhanger after the investment. The cast, the crew, the writers and the audience had put into it and then not come back. And so I didn't I didn't quite know what I was doing Season one. But what I what I did have was a lot of hope and a big heart that if I hired real theater kids, they would bring these stories to life.

And boy, did they deliver.

Well, when you were looking at casting, you know, did you say, this one's going to blow up big and music? This one is going to, you know, have a theater career? Did you have a sense of that when when you started casting all these people?

Well, yes, in the sense that, like, you know, Olivia and Josh were always great songwriters. Julia was always a big theater kid. What I maybe didn't expect was for it to happen so hyper fast. And I think they're all going to have very long careers where they ebb and flow and peak and valley at different times. And I don't know, I mean, they're like my kids.

And so I'm biased, but I think they're the biggest stars in the world and the most talented. And that Sofia Wylie is going to be a mogul who runs an entertainment company because she has so much talent and wisdom and brilliance on screen and off. So nothing surprises me with this group.

So what about you? Where do you go from here?

Well, I write the next thing and I've got, you know, after the strike lifts, I have projects at Hulu and Disney Plus and some movies. And then and then we'll see where the fates take us. But for now, I'm sort of. I'm not ready quite ready to say goodbye. So I'm just keeping an eye on August 9th and I'll be at home streaming the whole thing and bingeing it this season.

How will you look back on this then? What will you say about this time of your life?

Well, I think I finally got high school, right? I was in the closet the first time I missed my high school graduation because I was doing a regional theater production of Oklahoma all around. There's a lot of there's a lot of things I missed in high school, including first love and a first kiss and things that like, you know, closeted gay kids didn't get in the nineties.

And so if I look back at this, it's that I had this miraculous second chance, one of my favorite songs from the series to get some of it right or at least get a second chance at it. And I will forever be grateful for that.

Bruce, thanks for the interview with Tim. And now we're going to go to some of the kid actors in the series, and this is Frankie Rodriguez, Julia Lester and Dara Reneé, Correct?

Right. And Julia Lester is the one who is just on Broadway here and into the woods. Frankie plays Carlos. And if you're a fan of this show and you know, Carlos and SAB are a big couple in the thing, and then Dara is the she plays the kind of the brain of the whole school, and she wrestles with the idea of what college you make going to go to after this.

So here are the three from High School Musical: The Musical: The Series. What did the three of you think this was all going to be when you started this series?

Oh, oh, my gosh. When we started, we didn't even know if we would make it to four seasons. When we ended the first season, we kind of filmed two alternate endings just in case we didn't get to come back in. So I think this like kind of blew all of our expectations out of the water. And now we get to be here graduating.

I mean, it's amazing.

Well, you know, some great things have come from this. And Julia, you're right there. Come on. I watched the Tonys and said, Oh, my God, please let her win These that are. When did you guys think this could be a launching pad for other things? Did you think that this would lead to other work and other kinds of opportunities?

I mean, I think that's sort of what you always hope for, but you can never really rely on maybes or the possibilities of things. And I think when we started season one, what we really wanted was to create a show that was different and set us apart from things that people had seen in the past, especially for Disney.

You know, we we were part of launching the Disney Plus platform, so I think we were really focused on on that being successful and being received well, and it totally was. And so I think once that happened, the world sort of like opened up for all of us. And it's just been an incredible journey seeing how all of us have thrived since then.

So what was the Tony thing like? Was it just incredible?

It was it was amazing. The New York theater community is just like so loving and so supportive of each other in it. It was really cool to go there and feel like I was a part of it and belong with them in some way. It was it was really magical.

Well, what was it like having the O.G. High School Musical people with you this year? Was it different? Was it strange? Like, were you like, asking them lots of questions about what you wanted to know?

Oh, well, I mean, it was so cool. I mean, growing up with those as your role models and then actually working with them was so mind blowing. And specifically for me, I knew Monique Coleman before I booked High School Musical and I messaged her and I was like, Hey, Queen, I would like Taylor. And she supported me. It uplifted me.

So being able to be in scenes with her is such a full circle moment, and I couldn't have asked for a better person to show me the ropes. I love Queens a little bit.

Well, how hard was it to say goodbye?

I mean, it's always hard to say goodbye, especially to this specific experience, because it has brought us so many amazing things, especially each other. So I think it's definitely a bittersweet. You want to graduate and you want to move on and you want to go on to the next chapter of life. But also you're like, maybe just like five more minutes.

Yeah.

And talk about Tim's role in all of this. You know, he said, I really didn't know what I was doing when I started. What has he been like during this whole this whole series.

As we famously say, he is our fearless leader and he has been our leader from day one. He is the reason all of us are here in this point in our lives together. And, you know, the the greatest experiences happen when things trickle from the top down. And he really has created the most loving, accepting working environment. And I said this earlier, like this being like our all of our first, like real big long running job has sort of set the precedent for the environments that we want to work in and the people that we want to work with and the way that we want to work.

And so without this experience, like, you know, who knows, like the rooms that we would be in. But it's just it's been really wonderful and it's really thanks to him and his his genius brand.

Well, when you look at this, what was the turning point for the series? What was the time when you said, you know what, this is going to last, This is going to be more than just one year it out.

I feel like once we started to see our supporters reactions to what we were creating, I mean, our family, as I call them, has been so, so beautiful and so brilliant and accepting us and accepting everything that we do. And I'm so grateful for their support and for all that they done for us. Because honestly, I feel like we wouldn't be here without them.

And they literally are die hard. And, you know, I'm Dan Harper and it's not selfless. It's it that's when I feel like we all really need you.

You talk about coming back for a reunion.

I that but I already got out tomorrow I guess. Yeah. Anything anything to put us in the same room with each other We're there that we.

Well, you guys, thank you so much and congratulations. It's been so fun to watch and especially to see how your careers have all just blossomed. It's incredible. So thank so much from a die hard fan.

Nate Nell. Thanks for all the love over the years.

All right, Bruce, thanks again for that interview. And, well, we were getting to the bleak part of summer. I know we've we've gotten through a lot of of the big blockbusters that were coming. I know there's a few more here. You know, you get a few like Meg is coming out and the Ninja Turtles and we mentioned, you know I know we got very greedy and but we've got the writers strike and we don't know in the actors or striking we don't know what's coming back and when and where.

I mean I'm almost running out of things to watch. I mean, my wife and I are kind of kicking around. Maybe we can talk about some things there.

We will do that the next week. I'll tell you, if you are a big fan of the High School musical kind of Broadway things, summer theater camp, I guess it's called theater Camp. Ben Platt and Noah Galvin produced this, and it's kind of a mockumentary that's out there. It's opening slowly across the country. It's not in wide release.

So you might find it at a theater in your in your community or not. You'll have to wait a bit for it to come out. But it is opening in slow waves. But, yes, we will come back next week and I've got great ideas for you about things you should binge that you haven't seen. And we're also going to talk about the ones you must have seen by this time because the Emmy Awards will be coming in September and you're going to binge a lot of stuff before we get to that.

All right. Yeah, I definitely have to become even more of a couch potato than I already am. So you'll you'll contribute to that. And we will be back again next week.

Terry, we're all in this together.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When is a movie no longer just a movie? It's when it becomes an event, or even a cultural phenomenon. What happens when two of those movies drop at the same time? You have the collision that was "Barbenheimer."

This past week saw the opening of two films that are polar opposites: Greta Gerwig's playful comedy "Barbie" that brings the doll to life and Christopher Nolan's "Oppenheiemer," the biographical drama depicting the development of the atomic bomb under J. Robert Oppenheimer. 

The films should presumably appeal to vastly different audiences, but buzz around both films had moviegoers swarming to both — often on the same day — and each delivered in a big way.

"Barbie" brought in more than $162 million domestically on opening weekend and "Oppenheimer" had more than $82 million in sales to take the top two box office spots this past week. And while that seems like a distant No. 2 for the latter, don't forget that "Barbie" is more than an hour shorter and appeared on more screens.

Co-hosts Bruce Miller and Terry Lipshetz discuss seeing both films, including Terry's experience seeing "Oppenheimer" in an IMAX theater. Plus, learn why both films will surely be in the running for multiple Academy Awards when Oscar season approaches. 

Next week: We discuss the upcoming final season of "High School Musical: The Musical: The Series" on Disney+ and have interviews with cast members Frankie A. Rodriguez, Julia Lester and Dara Reneé, plus the creator of the series Tim Federle.

Where to watch

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Screamed and Screamed in Entertainment Podcasts about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with the King of this podcast’s mojo dojo casa house Bruce Miller, editor of the City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter. So Mr. Mojo Dojo Casa House ruler, see any good movies this weekend.

Was it a Brucedom? Yeah.

Are you are you leading the patriarchy? Are you in charge of that?

That's right. I can hardly wait there with the patriarchy is coming to Barbie land. That'll be so cool. Actually, this was like, I swear, this will have been the best week of movies of the year. It's incredible to really big ones. And I saw a lot of people who were trying to do both of them in the same day when I went.

And they all an awful lot of people dressed up like Barbie, basically a lot of pink. And then they would their choice was to go to Barbie first in Oppenheimer's second, which I don't know if was because they felt that they could relax or something. I don't know. But they did like doing the double feature like that. But I would have savored a little bit of it so that I wouldn't add all the goodness at once, because I think it was it was interesting.

Now you've got girls who would probably be of a Barbie age, right?

E their they've outgrown Barbie as a toy or a thing. So they're past the Barbie stage. And this is an interesting movie, too, because this Barbie, this isn't a kids movie. This is all sort of an adult themed. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that if parents were thinking they're going to send their kids to see Barbie, it might be a bad idea because I don't think that there's anything in there that's subversive or anything that they shouldn't see, but I don't think they would think it was like past Barbie films where it was, you know, just kind of magic unicorns and cars and God knows what Barbie did back in the past.

But it's a spoof in a way of the Barbie motif. I thought it was brilliant the way they were able to make Barbie relevant today. And where you don't dismiss her as just that. Oh, that's that kind of obnoxious doll, you know, because Barbie has always been seen as why are little girls playing with anything but a baby doll?

And Barbie came around. It was like, you know, maybe we like to play with dolls like that. So it's very interesting how they do that. And then they make Mattel look good, which I was shocked about that. I thought Mattel, you know, they had these kind of mean guys who are all male staff at Mattel running the thing.

And then they introduce you to the the woman who created Barbie. And a very fascinating to show how Mattel doesn't come off as a bad guy in this whole thing, I think. But I do think that a lot of people have been leaning in far too much to the end. Everybody talks about it as the best final line of any movie.

And I think, okay, it's interesting, but let's not all get so excited that we lose sight of what came before that.

Right? I really loved it. I didn't know what to expect because I. I tried to stay away from so many reviews and everything. I wanted to go in with it with a very fresh mind. I obviously read enough of it to know, you know, obviously this is a little bit of a spoof of Barbie. This isn't like some of the Barbie movies that the cartoon is.

You're the very Barbie Barbie type of movies that have been there. This is obviously poking fun at Barbie to a degree. I mean, even in the trailers says if you love Barbie, you're going to love this movie. If you hate Barbie, hate Barbie, love this movie. And I you know, I'm not a a Barbie person, but I went into it thinking like, okay, I want to check this out.

It has the pedigree of people in it that, you know, I should like it. I mean, Will Ferrell is as the head of Mattel and I thought he was brilliant in that part is normal. Will Ferrell Nice. I don't always love him in movies, but I thought he played this role very well. And then I thought, you know, Rhea Perlman in that role, as you know, the creator of Barbie, did did a wonderful job.

It was fun to see her. My wife was excited when Kate McKinnon came on screen as Weird Barbie. She loves Kate McKinnon. I love Kate McKinnon. And so it was it was kind of fun from that perspective.

She's like three Barbie that every girl, like, did her hair. I mean, heard anybody who owned a Barbie. I cut her hair. Oh, yeah. Barbie was always getting her hair cut. And this is how she turns out. And then she becomes the one who sits in the box without shoes and kind of the wrong outfit put on together.

And maybe the makeup got smeared. That is Kate McKinnon in a heartbeat. And she did a beautiful job of kind of left over Barbie.

Yeah, I was just overall surprised at how much I enjoyed it. I thought I would like it. You know, Greta Gerwig is attached to it. She's becoming a very brilliant filmmaker. And I just thought that, okay, we have enough components here where I'm probably going to like it and it's fine. I can be a dad and go into this movie.

There were very few kids in the theater when we went. We went in the afternoon on a Saturday. I only brought one of the two daughters. One wanted absolutely nothing to do with the movie because she hates Barbie, she hates pink things, she hates being a girly girl. I showed her the trailer and I said like, No, no, no, it makes fun of that stuff.

And she still didn't want to see it. I guarantee you, as soon as it's on TV, she'll watch it and she'll probably love it. But I'm not going to force a 12 year old to go see a movie that she doesn't want. So we we went my wife and one of my daughters went and we enjoyed it. There were one other family I want to say that was there.

They had kind of like a tween ish daughter. And then there was a really little younger sister with her, which probably was too young for the movie. After that, it was all adults. It was all like older Gen-X, younger baby boomers.

You know, It was like Women's Night Out. Yeah. And they were dressed in pink. I saw two guys come in wearing pink shirts and pink shorts and blazers. So interesting crowd. And they were all of from teenage to, you know, middle aged. I think it was a yeah, a fascinating mix. And I thought it had a real big opening day crowd.

I was surprised that on opening day it would be that big. But it was and it was the number one film of the week.

So they did like by like a mile, I mean 162 million in 4200 plus theaters. That is insane. And it was I don't know if you picked up on this, but it actually shattered a record for a film directed by a woman, 162 million. The next best was Captain Marvel, which was co-directed by Anna Boden, and that did 153 million in 2019.

And then the Wonder Woman film by Patty Jenkins in 2017 that just did just a little over 103 million. So this this was a just a huge movie on so many different levels. The number of screens it was showing on just at my little AMC Theater in town, it was it was like 10 a.m. 1030, 12, 12 3130.

It was just nonstop in my theater. It wasn't packed when I went kind of early in the afternoon, but it was constant. I mean, it was the most full. I've seen that parking lot in a very long time.

You know, the thing that the success will cause them to want to do a sequel.

Yep.

And to me. Okay. But go into those other Barbies because there's a whole lineup of different kinds of Barbies. You don't have to have Margot Robbie come back and go through some other kind of life affirming mission or whatever. You could have a Supreme Court Barbie. You could have President Barbie, you could have astronaut Barbie. You could go with all those different ones, and same with cans.

You could have different cans. So then it's not the same thing, because I think that's what they're just too eager for is an and my favorite of all was Allen Allen.

I was just going to bring Allen up.

Michael's Nero was so good as Allen and you know what I loved is at the end during the credits you got to see what that doll looked like and there was it says I can wear Ken's clothes or something like that. And that was one of his lines. And yet she was able to grab all those things from costumes that Barbie wore or the different kinds of Barbies there were.

She I mean, if you were a Barbie fan, she did her homework. And I think that really shows with this. I wanted to see a little more image. I got to be honest and Skipper, because those two were, you know, how they traded. Let's make every dime we can get out of the franchise. It would have been fun to see those.

But they again, they could be potential for a sequel. But I laughed so much and I do think if I'm going to predict anything, Ryan Gosling could get a Best Supporting Actor nomination for Cat.

He was good. He played kind of that dopey sidekick kind of. But then when he comes into the real world and sees that, you know, it's not like Barbie Land in, and he starts kind of asserting himself and then comes back and creates the mojo dojo casa house, which is my favorite line of the whole thing.

And then he's wearing this fur coat all the time, like he's some rapper or something, you.

Know, And the battle, the battle at the end, I don't you know, we don't need you, but you're going to be you mentioned that beating each other off. I think he did a really nice job of toeing the line with some of the referencing and that kind of thing to keep the adults happy, but they never really crossed the line where I don't think it was at any point, you know, concerning to have kids in there other than maybe a few adult ish things a little bit here and there.

I mean, they got a little anatomical a couple of times, but that was it. But it was it was funny.

If anything, kids would be bored, right, Because they wouldn't get the lines or they wouldn't get the reference. But if you've lived through Barbie and I think that's most of us, we've seen the kind of things they've done with her and where it was like beauty queen Barbie and all these things where it was promoting a different image than maybe most people thought of Barbie because I think when it started, she kind of looked Marilyn Monroe ish.

No, I mean, then she became kind of this Miss America ideal. And I think that didn't really play well with people who were looking for a doll who was adult.

Right.

But they never they never lay on all of that so that it's a bad thing, like when they make fun of Barbie being these is just that she could do anything.

Yeah.

And I love the concept that she could dream to be Barbie, could be whatever she wants to be. Exactly. That's what I think the movie talks about, is that women should have the right to be whatever they want to be.

You know, you brought up Ryan Gosling in this for a possible award season thing. You don't normally see comedies enter into that level of discussion. Could you see this film, though, because of the messaging and the way they approached it, the direction, the screenwriting? Could you see this maybe getting in being their 10th film to get a best Picture nominee to get, you know, best director nominee for Greta Gerwig, Best Original Screenplay, maybe.

Okay. It's definitely going to be a contender, if not the winner already for best sets and best costumes, because those are just brilliant. And then you start looking down the road and you think, Well, she's going to get a writing nomination because here's a way that you can reward. They want to give Greta something over all these years where they like past her by.

And I think writing could be the one that she could win. I don't know that directing is one that she could win because you've got those heavy dramas that are in there, but she can certainly be nominated. Yeah. And then and it'll be I think it'll be nominated for best Picture because it's just goofy enough that there is room for it.

Yep. You know, and it was one of those things and we'll talk about it too, as we move on to Oppenheimer. But it was a film that I felt like I really wanted to see it in the theater and it was funny because I looked at my purchase history in my AMC app because I watched I saw that on a on Saturday.

I couldn't get to Oppenheimer until Monday afternoon, which is July 24th, July 24th of last year. I saw Top Gun Maverick. I saw that in my history. That was the first movie I went to in the theater since the pandemic. I mean, the last thing I saw before that in the theater was going to the last Star Wars movie twice in December of 2019.

So I went to Top Gun Maverick in July of last year. I went to Avatar. That was the next movie I saw in the theater was Avatar in December. But since then, it's been, you know, is Barbie movie. It's Oppenheimer, it's Indiana Jones. It was elemental. It was The Flash, It was Super Mario Brothers. I've been to, you know, like a half dozen movies now, and it feels like we're back.

We're back with all right. Movies, event level movies where I don't even want to wait until it's on streaming or anything like that. I have to be there.

Well, and didn't you feel that the crowd reaction helped?

Yes.

You know, if you were sitting at home, you wouldn't really have those good belly laughs that you got out of some of these things. And I don't feel any of them. But there were moments when I was just snorting. Yeah, they were so funny.

Yeah. And, you know, it is interesting too, for me, before I went to see the movie Friday night, we had tickets to to a pro baseball game. It was kind of one of these. It's not an affiliated minor league team. It's kind of, you know, it's where the players go to keep their careers going. And so we go to this game and we're watching it and there's a family behind us.

And the family includes a few daughters that were, you know, like late teens, early 20 kind of age. And they're talking about Barb and Heimer for a couple of innings. And they're giving their critique of, you know, yeah, I love the Barbie movie. Oppenheimer It was pretty good. We were surprised. It was a little slow at first, but it and there I'm thinking it's like we're we're at a baseball game and people are talking about urban Heimer there it's almost because it's entered into this this cultural it's a cultural phenomenon in the moment.

And, you know, no matter where you are, people are talking about it.

And you go, la la la la la. Don't tell me anything about that.

But I was luckily my hearing's a little off, so whatever else, they kept on yapping about it. Yeah, I missed it, but I picked up on that.

You got to see Oppenheimer. How I wish I had, which is on IMAX screens. I did. I wasn't really. I would think that when they they now hear it's going to sound like I'm spoiling it but when they test the bomb. Yeah, that that would have been really, really cool in IMAX.

Oh yeah. Oh yes.

Because. All right, you've got me. And I'm jealous because I didn't see an IMAX.

Yeah. So I couldn't get to Oppenheimer over the weekend and I was looking I was I wasn't sure if I'd even be able to see it before we talked. I go and I was looking to see where it was playing and when, and I didn't even realize it. But there was an IMAX theater not too far from the office, and I saw that even even during the week, it was getting pretty filled up.

So my best chance to see it in IMAX was at 1215 on a monday afternoon. I buy my ticket, I get there and the place is absolutely packed. Other than the first couple of rows where you're going to get a stiff neck and a few seats off to the side on either end. The place was packed on a monday afternoon.

I have never in my life been to an IMAX theater. I've been to a few large format type of things in museums and that kind of thing where, you know, they try to immerse you in sound and screen. But I was never actually at an IMAX theater to see a Hollywood film as soon as I sat in, even just there going through the previews and I'm already just getting blown away, seeing all the movies that I'm expecting to see in the next few months.

But then when when the film comes up and you're seeing it and you know that Christopher Nolan filmed it with IMAX in mind and the imagery is huge and the sound I'm just swimming in sound and it's not it's it's loud, but it's not overpowering. I could just feel it around me. So again, we don't want to give away anything.

We want to be as spoiler free as possible. But it's pretty obvious that, yes, they do test the atomic bomb in a movie about the atomic bomb. So when they drop it and it kind of there's that scene where they don't they don't give you the sound right away. They just give you that flash. Right. And I'm just thinking, oh, okay, you know, that's interesting.

But then then it hits you. And I could feel like you can feel the sound pouring over you as that destructive wave just comes at you. And I was just so blown away by that that I'm so glad I was so glad I saw that in IMAX.

Did you see Sound of Metal, the one about the musician who was losing his hearing?

It's on my list of like, yeah, I know what you're speaking of. It's in my Amazon Prime. Like, I got to see it and I've been watching this for three years.

They play with sound in very, very interesting ways and that that was what I was reminded of when I saw Oppenheimer. I thought, you know, he's really he's using all of these different elements. I mean, everything cinematography, where he has black and white in color, the makeup where the makeup techniques are very subtle. They aren't ones where you go, Oh, my God, he's got a big plastic face on and he's supposed to be old.

Okay, I get that. I guess this is very, very subtle. All of the things that the elements are top drawer, top drawer with everybody. And then when you look at the cast of supporting actors, I mean, it's a it's an independent directors dream cast. And you go, Oh, my God. And they they don't even have lines. Some of those people are just kind of background.

They wanted to be in this film so badly and you go through it, you go, Wow, this is clout, where you're able to get these people in this film. Now, I like you. I think it starts slowly. I think it's one of those things where don't be thrown off by a film that might seem a little oh, my God, it's just sluggish.

We're going to get a whole buy. Because I thought immediately of Beautiful Mind. I thought, Oh, jeez, it's going to be Beautiful Mind all over again. And then it isn't. And then you you get into that whole building process where they're creating Los Alamos and and the team is assembling and you kind of get, okay, it's like riding a train and the train keeps chugging and then it gets a high pitch.

And there's a moment again, this is another one I want to ask you about when he is greeted by everybody in the room where they again use sound as and flashes to see how he responds to the people who are cheering him on. Do you know which one I'm meaning?

Yeah. And you're kind of later after. Yeah. And did you.

Did you. Was that a real big and have seen watch.

Yeah. Yeah that and that and just the emotion and because you can see it on his face so clearly being so large but then the sound into it and the sound of kind of like him imagining the world being destroyed by right energy it just it filled the theater the whole way through. Absolutely amazing.

And then there's that kind of oh my God moment when they started talking about a vote that was taken and who was responsible for. And that is just I think that's one of that. That's one of those kind of cherries on the top that rewards you for hanging with it and also knowing the history.

Yeah, it's interesting because I, I mean, I obviously knew that Cillian Murphy was in there as Robert Oppenheimer. I knew Matt Damon was in the movie, but I, I really avoided paying too close attention to who is doing what because I just wanted to go in and see the film. I didn't realize right away that it was Robert Downey Jr in that role, but it was interesting to me.

And let me ask you this, as someone who's seen a lot of movies, like I went into it, it's a three hour film and it's a it's a drama about the Manhattan Project. And I'm thinking myself, I hope this isn't boring. You know, I know that there's going to be an hour in. I know there's a lot of story to tell as I started watching it, because obviously they give you the black and white is meant to be from the perspective of Louis Strauss's character.

Right.

Right.

And then the color is Robert Oppenheimer's perspective, right? It got me thinking a little bit to how Francis Ford Coppola directed Godfather Part two, which is also a very long movie, over 3 hours and 20 minutes. But he used the scenes where he had scenes with kind of the present day Corleone family. But then they also had Robert De Niro's the flashbacks of how Vito Corleone came to power, and they would bounce you back and forth.

And I thought with Oppenheimer how they were able to go back and forth between the black and white and the color. It helped actually move the story along. So you weren't so beaten down by just constant dialog and stuff. It was almost, you know, in both cases, both movies have very little action. It's more of a of a drama.

And they used a different jumping around in color to kind of keep you moving along. So I actually never felt like it was, you know, there was a few few moments where kind of slowly went along. But I always thought it kept me going the whole way through.

I you know, I think the your concept is that black and white means it's the past. And that wasn't how he used that. That is just perspective and so immediately you jump to that you think or these old scenes that we're watching here now is this before something and it's not it's actually more of the more contemporary scenes of some of the things that they were dealing with.

I thought it was very fascinating how Matt Damon looked like a movie star in that he was a little broader than most of the other actors. The other actors kind of pulled it back a little bit and he was kind of like, Ooh, la, where you're you're getting a little more than maybe you want out of him. And I know he'll probably be nominated for best supporting actor.

But you see that Robert Downey Jr is almost invisible as Strauss. Then he gives it away with a few little gestures of his that are typical Robert Downey Jr things. But I think it's still a good performance. Emily Blunt How exciting is she as Mrs. Oppenheimer She is like, I want to know her because that one woman would just tell people, OP and she was like, just kind of she had that bitterness that her husband didn't and she knew how to be just that other side there that she needed.

And I think Gillian Murphy pulls back enough that you can just project just about anything on his personality so that if you thought he was a nudge or you thought he was just this brilliant man who is, you know, doesn't have equals anywhere, there were a lot of things that you could play off his performance, how he modulated that.

And, you know, they all talk about how he ate nothing and didn't mingle with the rest of them. And you think, well, if that helped the performance go for it, you know, But when I saw like Josh Hartnett sitting there on the on the couch, barely in it, Rami Malick, who has maybe one decent scene and these are and people who are like Oscar winners.

Affleck had a little bit part in there, too so.

That anybody in it's like all of a sudden he shows up.

Matthew Modine I thought, Oh, this is your tip of the hat to Ken Burns, because Matthew Modine would be the kind who would like narrate something for Ken Burns, right? Yeah, he was it was buried. But in Florence Pugh You don't recognize that. That's Florence Pugh in there as somebody in Oppenheimer's life. Albert Einstein Yeah. You know, I mean, it just it goes one after another.

So if you're a fan of movies, Oppenheimer is like the best reward we've gotten in a long time. And I'm not saying bad things about past movies that have won Best Picture or whatever, but they've been pretty middle of the road in recent years. I mean, you know, don't get me wrong, I love Coda, but I don't think Coda is high art.

I think this is something that you look at and you say, you know what, This guy did some planning. He did some thinking about this. It isn't we've just got to get this shot today and we're moving on.

This movie also. I mean, you know, it did only 82 million compared to Barbie's 162. But it was on it was on 600 fewer screens, number one. And it's 3 hours. You can only show it so many times during the course of the day. So yeah, it did half of Barbie. But in a sense, with the time and everything, we almost it almost equal that, you know, it's just like if you could have shortened up the movie and threw it on more screens, it would have been right up there.

People, people flocked to this movie.

You know, last week we talked about RAGBRAI, which was the bicycle ride across Iowa. And Saturday was when I went to it and in the theater, it was packed with with bicycle riders, because I don't know if it was because they want to get out of the heat, but they wanted have something to do or they wanted to recline in a in a comfy seat.

But they were it was wall to wall people in bicycle clothes. And they just loved it. They ate it up like crazy. And I don't think they slept if they were planning on doing that.

So overall, I mean, is Oppenheimer best picture frontrunner at this point for you?

Well, it is. But if you saw the previews, you saw that there's a martin Scorsese film that's coming out. And I think that's his biggest competition. And I think that's where we're going to see who's playing off whom in this. And it will depend how it you know, there will be some backlash. I think we already saw it today.

People were counting the stars on the flags and said use the right number of stars. And so there you go.

I read an interesting thing about that, too, that that might have actually been intentional because it was there was one scene where it had the correct number of stars and there was another scene where is incorrect. And the theory was that because it was it the split was between color in black and white. So the perspective may have been from one of their perspectives, the one where it was correct, remembering it as, you know, 48 states in the union, whereas the other one was, you have the perspective of the time where there's 50 stars.

I don't know if that's true or if somebody just, you know, in set design flubbed and grabbed the wrong one. But it was an interesting theory.

At least Clint Eastwood has done that, where he's done, you know, a period piece and then the flag is wrong. Right. You know, so it happens. It happens. But I don't that doesn't pull away from anything else. And I think, you know, he is a real stickler for not trying to recreate things in special effects. You're not going to see 10,000 names that are listed as people who did the animation for this.

So I think there's a real a love fest. And if Christopher Nolan doesn't win best director for this, it better be something good.

Absolutely. Well, next week we're going to move probably as far away from Oppenheimer and Barbara, yet we have a new show, well, I guess not a new show, but a new season of a show on Disney and yeah, ending. Do you want to just set us up on that one? What are we looking at?

Come on, High School Musical and I know you're not of that ilk. I know that you're not from that age range. 26 When it popped, it was unbelievable. I mean, nobody thought that a Disney movie would turn out to be that much of a phenomenon. And it launched careers not unlike other films and then led way to High School Musical, The musical, the series, which is ending its season.

In fact, they're going to drop all the episodes on one day. So if you are a high school musical nut, you'll find out what happened to those kids in the in the final season so that we're telling you that next weekend we've got people from the show that we are talking to as well. So come on, we're all in this together.

I can't wait to talk with you more about that. Thank you again for listening to this episode of Streamed and Screened.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hollywood was largely shut down when screenwriters went on strike, but they are now being joined by members of the Screen Actors Guild with no end in sight. 

This strike came just ahead of the release of the latest summer blockbuster, "Mission: Impossible – Dead Reckoning Part One," which had a big opening globally. But production of next year's "Part Two," like everything else, is now on hold.

Also in limbo is the status of the 75th Primetime Emmy Awards, scheduled for Sept. 18. As part of the strike, actors can't do promotional work and likely cannot participate in the show. Regardless, the nominations (full list here) were dominated by HBO heavyweights and "Ted Lasso" from AppleTV+. "Succession" led the way with 27 nominations, "The Last of Us" got 24, "The White Lotus" got 23, 74 total for the three HBO shows. "Ted Lasso" led comedies with 21.

Besides the latest "Mission: Impossible" installment, we discuss the upcoming "Barbie" and "Oppenheimer" releases and a documentary that looks at RAGBRAI — the Register's Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa.

Read more

Two journalists look inside RAGBRAI for a deeper, cinematic story

Where to watch

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Streamed & Screened an entertainment podcasts about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with the very well-rested Bruce Miller at Sioux City Journal and longtime entertainment reporter. Bruce, you're on vacation with me.

I was I was on vacation and I did not do any vacation things. I did not visit animals in a zoo. I did not ride rides in an amusement park. I was basically cleaning crap in my basement. That's what.

I planned.

And it's not done. It's not done. And now I'm freaked out because everybody's on strike. And that could mean I don't get interviews.

I know I wanted to talk about this because we were already shut down sort of anyway with the writers on strike. But now the screen actors Guild voted to strike. So on one hand, not a whole lot of changes because most production was shut down anyway because of the writers. But now the actors are on strike as well.

And they won't talk about product that they have that's out there. Now. Directors will. So you can we might be doing a lot of directors, you might hear me saying, Oh, I'm, I'm tired. The all these great directors, you go, oh, do we care? We don't care. But that could be our new our new world order. I think something's got to come to a head with this.

I think we're getting to the point where. Come on, folks, you got to move. Otherwise, we're having nothing. And you can only watch so many game shows and so many reality shows and so many politicians talking before you're ready to just scream. And I think that's where we need to see some movement in this whole thing. And I, you know, I stand behind the actors and the writers.

When you look at the kinds of money that they're not making and you hear about $1,000,000,000 salary for somebody who's the head of the studio. Is there something wrong with this picture? I think there is.

You know, it's kind of interesting. I read a few things about the strike. One was kind of looking at the last time or one of the last times it really came to a head like this, which was I think it was in the early sixties maybe, and it was tied a bit to those payments, you know, like a movie would was starting to get aired on TV.

How would the actors get paid residuals? So that was kind of like the big thing. The last time there was a real, real big strike like this. But now we're getting into a situation where we're looking at things that, like I and I saw in one report, I think it was Rolling Stone. It's almost dystopian in a sense where they wanted to pay someone is an extra and they talk about, you know, everyone gets hung up on like how much Tom Cruise makes, you know, how much this actor makes and that.

But the reality is, is that's like a teeny tiny percentage of members of the Screen Actors Guild. And a lot of it are extras, people that just like stand in the background who make maybe $200 a day at at just whatever the going rate is. And what they were looking to do is like, we would scan your image, pay you the $200 fee, but then only that.

Yeah, we, we you know, we own that image of you in perpetuity and, you know, we don't need to bring you in. And I, you know, for, for a perspective of the actor, I would be on strike too. There's no way you know that's that's good money and it's connections. It's this is how you meet people you like.

You go on a you go on a on on stage. You know, you go on to a set, You meet people, you meet other actors, you meet directors, you meet screenwriters. This is how you get your foot in the door. And you look at some of the legendary, you know, you talk about like Indiana Jones and Harrison Ford, who's been in the business for 60 years.

He was for a decade was working like odd jobs. I think he was a carpenter.

But he had.

These, like little fill in roles. And then he finally broke through with with Star. Well, American Graffiti in that little role. But then Star Wars and Indiana Jones.

Yeah. It's it's interesting how I think you need to make $26,000 a year in order to qualify for insurance. And not that many people make $26,000 a year, which is really scary, I think. And, you know, I've never liked the idea that you could scan somebody and then create a performance. I find that just that's abhorrent when you think that they would like to take Marilyn Monroe, scan all the things she ever did, and then have her in new films.

Now, this is not happening. And I think that's one of the big problems. Also, we thought streaming was such a great thing. Streaming. They were paying them next to nothing to do these shows. There were people from Orange is the New Black who said, you know, they barely made money and they had to have some other kind of job just to be able to keep that job.

This is ridiculous. This shouldn't happen, especially when they're making such huge sums of money out of this. Pick a side. But I really think that the angels are on the side of the actors and the writers at this point.

I find it hard to believe. I mean, any time there's a contract negotiation, a strike, and you have, you know, labor up against management, there's obviously they'll come together and meet in the middle somewhere. But it feels like this one, based on some of the issues, could drag on for a while. And it is like I mean, I try to Im a journalist, you're journalist.

We try to, you know, stay neutral on things. But I'm having a hard time siding with management on this one. This is a this is a tough one. When you get into like, you know, people are trying to just make ends meet on a on a you know, on a set and try to break through in an industry.

We could be duped. I don't know. I'm not saying that we are, but I had never heard that they made this little money. You know, this was not an issue before we got to the strike situation. And so I wonder why people didn't bring that up earlier, especially when they were negotiating with streaming services about because they were all so excited that there was so much content and there were so many opportunities.

And then all of a sudden now it's yeah, they didn't pay well. Why is this? Why did this happen? I do know that they look a lot at European Australia in other countries for actors and so I'm sure that there must have been some easier way to get those people to be in films and TV shows than it is to hire Americans.

I don't know what the situation was, but you know, you'll always go, Well, wait a minute, they why did they pick an Australian or why is that guy British and he's doing an American accent and it doesn't matter. You want the best actor for the for the situation. But it just seems strange and I just wonder if they don't work cheap.

Now, I know in London they have to put together a lot of jobs to be able to make a career out of it. They're not only in like these six episode series. He's they're also on the West End working in plays. They're doing kind of presenter jobs. They're everywhere and they're not just like one movie and done for the year.

So you can see that maybe that is a model for the what the U.S. situation's going to be like. I don't know. It's scary though, because I don't want to see game shows all season long. That's what we're going to be facing is a lot of game shows.

Yeah. And you know, you look at the big movie that opened this past weekend, which was the latest in the Mission Impossible series, Dead Reckoning. Part one will Dead Reckoning, Part two now is on hiatus because it was still in the middle of production and they had to shut it down. So, you know, we're now at a situation of like, yeah, we don't want game shows, but there's a lot of movies.

You know what? What does our summer movie situation for 2024 look like? If this gets extended.

We'll look at Colbert where they weren't able to make new films. And so then they kind of stretch things out for a while. These are long dry spells and I don't want to bail out from stuff I liked when we had a lot of card debt, so maybe I'm in the minority there, but a come to a conclusion, make it equitable for everybody and get us our entertainment back.

You mentioned Mission Impossible. I went to Mission Impossible 2 hours and 45 minutes. Yeah. Does not need 2 hours and 45 minutes because 2 hours of that is it's stunt work. And yeah, I can I could make a case where we need a best stunt ensemble Oscar because easily you could, you could see what they've done. But what's interesting about that is a lot of the stunts are very similar to ones in Indiana Jones.

The latest one, there are bullets running on top of a train. You know, they're both coming to the edge of something. They're in all different kinds of vehicles. There are many, many parallels, like are they looking at each other's own homework and saying, well, we should do that, too, because if they're going to come out with that, we need that.

We've got to have that. If Barbie is running on a top of a train this week, when Barbie comes out, I know that there was.

There a motorcycle? Yes, maybe you know this, but I read somewhere or saw somewhere years ago that Tom Cruise needs a motorcycle. And every movie he does.

He comes to the end. You've seen it probably in the previews. He comes to the edge of a cliff and looks like falling off it. But, you know, and God bless him, he is a hard worker and likes doing that crap. But enough. We don't need all of that. And you can easily see how if he edited it, it'd be a better film.

I have. You know, I've always said this, you know, if it's 90 minutes or less than 2 hours, that's a good sign. They need to be able to kind of pull it in. And it used to be they did, because they wanted to get more showings in a day so they'd make more money. Now, if you see two, two screenings of a film in one day, Oh, that's okay.

We're all right with that. I don't think so.

I'm with you on the length of films, especially to as I've gotten older, it just feels like I, you know, I get that big drink and then it's, you know, two hour, hour and 45. I'm already like, can we wrap this thing up a little bit? I got a great right here.

And then how are they going to have extra scenes after the credits? Do I have to sit for that or do I run like a rat? Yeah.

Was was there an extra scene at the end of Indiana Jones? I don't.

Know, because I had to run like a.

Rat. I did too. I blind. I was. I was so quick getting out of car.

We'll see what happens. You know, what's interesting is Oppenheimer opens this week as well. Yes. And Christopher Nolan is one who really appreciates the old way of doing things. He doesn't want to use special effects that he can easily do, you know, with stunt people, with locations, with cars. He doesn't want to have some animator making his movie, basically.

And he does black and white with this and an IMAX camera. I mean, it's there are things he is doing that are so remarkable that others need to look at instead of trying to see how how high the bar can be. Maybe you should just make something that's a little more artistic. Just talk on here. We'll see what happens.

But have you have you been able to see that one yet or are you waiting until this week?

Oh, oh, waiting for the Barbie Hammer? Yeah, I'm Barbie Hammer. I'm waiting to see what happens with it. But yeah, so I, I think more need to follow this lead. And I think, you know, we're going to be fine this year for best picture candidates. You have Martin Scorsese, big film coming out that should be a real strong contender.

You have Oppenheimer, which is good. You have the going way back air from Ben Affleck. So there are good films this year, but it could be a drought next year if we don't get people back to work.

Box office numbers were interesting this past weekend as well. A solid opening for Mission Impossible. 80 million domestic Indiana Jones, only 12 million. Now overall, Indiana Jones is at 300 million worldwide, just over 300 million worldwide. So it's today. But it the numbers I saw Disney reported, I think 295 million to make it. But there's some estimates that have made it may have actually been closer to 400, you know, with the promotional stuff.

So it's still like it either just made back its money or maybe has another hundred million to go. But it will, I'm guessing it'll it'll get there at the end. But, you know, it was a solid week for Mission Impossible. That's already at 235 worldwide. So it's a really strong opening overseas. Do you see that one continuing on and and really bringing in, you know, is that going to be a top five?

Oh, yeah. It's Top Gun. It's this year's top gun, Italy is that they make the most money. I think it'll be interesting to see Barbie I think will run away with it or the week because there's enough talk about Barbie and it got good reviews to begin with. Oppenheimer is a little more a acquired taste.

And you're not going to get the kids at that.

Well, you're not going to have that big repeat business, but I don't think they're looking for it any way. So I think mission could probably be still number one. Barbie could be a strong number two.

Yeah, Barbie. To me, Barbie could end up as a runaway hit also, because you're going to get the kids are going to want to see it. But it's that type of movie where the and I told my I told my wife and daughters like, you want to go see it, I'm coming with you. Don't don't run out in the middle of the day without rad.

Yeah.

That's this is what But I think it has a better message. And they say that Ken steals the film. So you feel sorry for Ken because Ken is kind of also in the cast, if you will, And he kind of pleads his case in the course of this. So I think, yeah, I'm I'm I'm leery of the two ones.

I'm waiting for Barbie because I know I, I want to see IMAX version of Oppenheimer. Yeah. And I won't see it the first week.

Have you seen the reels, the IMAX reels? It's been they've been popping up on like tik-tok and stuff. Instagram, it's like 11 miles of film. Were there to create an extender on the reels just to hold it just for this movie.

Wow. But I missed those days. I really miss exhibition. Exhibition was a big thing back in the day where you had Do you remember Cinerama? Was that ever anything in your your. Oh, okay. These were it was three screens and they were synched so that they all it created one kind of curved picture and they were not theaters that showed other kinds of films.

It was basically you went for Cinerama how the West was what you would see it kind of going across the screen, the wagon train, Grand Prix. It was a car race. And so you see that wishing bye. So it was very kind of different and those things were long run. You would go, it was like going to a theme park and you would go, and in my day you had to dress up and they didn't have popcorn and they didn't have soft drinks.

They would have like an orange juice or some wine made or something like that. It was very much like going to the theater. And you felt very special when you were at these kinds of things. But it was a different kind of world where the seats were great. There was an overture that started the whole thing, and I think we're missing that.

I think that would be really cool to have that kind of buildup for. I know. I think they need to go back to that and look at that. But yeah, Cinerama was an interesting experiment and it was during that time they were trying a whole bunch of different kinds of visual tricks. And then more recently when they did Censor Round, which was where you sound all around you and you felt like, you know, an earthquake was a big one to try it where you actually felt like there was an earthquake in the theater.

So I think that's where the future lies more than is. You need to look at how you make the experience special. I don't know that you'll get rid of popcorn, but I do think that you will. You can make it just a little higher. And that or one of the things is when we got the good seats, you know, those.

The recliner seats. Yep. That's a nice little that's a nice little touch. I do remember being at a theater once where they gave you a blanket and this is big. You guys bring blankets to the theater?

No, my. Well, my wife and kids, they always pack a sweatshirt or something with.

Their classic bring you blankets. Well, at this theater, it was in Pasadena. You were given a blanket. And then they had a table where they would wait on you like it was a restaurant. They would have heated seats. It was like it was like better than your house and somebody was waiting on you, which is even I mean, tater tots in your movie.

You didn't care how bad the movie was. You were being taken care of. So I think that is the the one area where they can they can sharpen it up a bit.

They heard the the AMC theater that is literally within walking distance of my house. I mean, it's just it's a mile from from where I live. So it's it's super convenient but it's it's about 20 years out of date and it doesn't have all those fancy amenities. And it really could use an overhaul. But we're in that area of the state where, you know, if you just go to Madison or you decide to go on a walkie, you can have that stuff.

So it's almost like, you know, well, will AMC keep this one moving along or do I just have to be happy with it, you know, until they decide to shutter it or whatever? Because it's just I don't think the foot traffic is there to support even the fancy recliners. We went my wife and I went to a movie, probably going on ten years now when we were living in Appleton, Wisconsin.

It was a really small theater. They were showing. It wasn't quite bargain movies, but it was kind of in between. It was in that in-between stage of like first run and then bargain basement and they had tables set up in front of you. And right before the movie started, you'd put in your food order and then like 20 minutes into the film, you would start getting your burgers or chicken fingers or whatever, and you got full service.

They had beer and so made and everything. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. So it was that was an interesting concept. But, you know, that was it was kind of a small theater. The screen wasn't huge, so you wouldn't go there to get blown away. It's just more of a different experience, I guess.

I remember when we had drive in theaters, you got real dinner food, if you will. You know, there would be a dog or something, you know, I have or whatever it was. And we always had that was like, Oh my God, this is so great. And all it was was where you could spill on the car and you'll risk the wrath of Dad because we're not spilling in the car, so you're not getting on it.

But yeah, we have it.

We have a drive through not far from us. We took the kids a couple of years ago to see the remake that that live action Lion King. It was fun. It was fun to sit out there. But, you know, I was just like, please, may the batteries still start. When we started the car.

I would worry.

About yet because you know, the old ones and well this is the soundtrack all right. You think what did they say? They need to close caption these suckers because I don't understand what they're saying at the time. But it was you got out of the house, you know, and I remember, too, that it was car night where you would get as many people as you could get in the car for $1.

Mm. And, you know, it was like they were, they were coming lately or clowns at a circus, the cars would be filled and then they would all sit on the wheel after they got in the, in the drive in theater. So you know, who knows where, where the future lies. But I think it's an exhibition.

Yeah. Yeah. That's an interesting point especially is is home theater experiences continue to explode with streaming. And speaking of streaming, Emmy nominations came out last week.

Now, okay, here's the thing that I think is wrong with the Emmy nominations there. There is a category where there are two shows represented, White Lotus and Succession, and they just over dominate in some of these categories. I think some of the other shows are not even considered. You know, they'll all watch succession, for example, because it's a buzzy show and then they just start picking the people and putting them in there.

And I'm not saying they're not worthy, but. Right. You think what the you know, how many thousands of hours of content there couldn't be more. So I was shocked by that. I, I do think that we're going to see maybe some surprises in the comedy categories. For example, several shows are quitting. Yeah. It's who gets the last damn eight, you know, on the way out.

And I it'll be interesting to see if they'll if they're going to reward a new show in that category. The bear is nominated for best comedy you still as other times this is Maysles going out.

Ed Lasso's going out Yeah.

Supposedly is going out. So, you know, how do you split that boat? I don't know how it's going to be. And then you have ones that aren't even in the mix because they didn't have episodes this year, like Hacks. So we'll see what that all brings. But I wouldn't doubt that something like The Bear couldn't slip in there and win it.

As a sports fan, right? Sometimes you'll see in baseball a team will have a really good player, but or they'll have to really good players. And then there's a third guy. So as a mets fan, in 1988, Darryl Strawberry had a really good half of the season. Kevin McReynolds had a really good half of the season, and then Kirk Gibson for the Dodgers had a really solid, like start to finish, right.

You know, so you ended up having two guys from the Mets effectively split the vote with voters and then Kirk Gibson comes out on top. So I sometimes wonder, too, you know, you've got shows, Ted Lasso, Barry Marvelous. Mrs. Maisel. So if you start splitting that vote because people are getting nostalgic, it's like, Oh, I want to give it to Barry, I want to give it to Mrs. Marzel, then yeah, all of a sudden the bear shows up and can slip in there.

You know, I had ones where I have said to people, I think you should win, I think are really good. And they say they're not pushing me. So that means that the studio or the producers of this show may have one in mind and they'll give them more of a publicity campaign then somebody else. And then who knows what the Emmys are going to be like if the strikes are still going on.

Do they hand them out or do they wait?

Do they? Right. Did they delay the program until February or something? You know, in get it out of get it out of the fall? You know, interesting point I think you made with the number of actors, too. And you look at so many of these shows now like the White Lotus, like succession, like Ted Lasso, these are ensemble casts.

How do you pick? You know, I can understand with some shows you're like, this is clearly the best actor nominee. This is clearly the best actress nominee. These couple characters, you know, like what Cheers. Like you would always Ted Danson is the best actor nominee. No, no disputing that. Or or Kirstie Alley is the best actress. And then you might go to a norm or somebody else's as a supporting.

But when you have the White Lotus, which is an ensemble show, how do you even differentiate who it is or succession?

You know, a lot of times if you look back in the history of some of these shows, they don't have enough screen time to really merit the nomination, but they get the nomination and so they've got to hope that their producers write an episode for them that kind of is built around their character. So they have enough to show off.

And it's not like, Oh, what happened here? Hill Street Blues was notorious for giving them little kind of moments, but not enough moments to add up to a big you know, win. Daniel to bond. He always won because he was the lead. And you could tell he was the lead. L.A. Law another example of, you know, I supporting person could win e r a supporting person could win, but not necessarily somebody who is in a better category because they didn't have the scenes that add up to whatever somebody else could do.

Or if it's something that is very common, like or Angela Lansbury never won, she was nominated like 13 times for murder. She wrote Never Won. Well, she was facilitating a story for everybody else. And she was kind of the glue, not necessarily the one who went crazy and was the murderer. So she, you know, as a result, probably not going to win.

My take on the Emmys, too, in this kind of goes back to my own streaming habits and subscription habits. Now, we've talked about like with Apple TV Plus I kind of come and go from that. You know, I'll I got through Ted Lasso. I got through a couple of other shows like For All Mankind. I got caught up on that.

I'm probably going to check out a couple of other shows, but then I'm going to turn it off for six months and then I'll wave it again. And there's a couple other ones now, like with Hulu, I would probably drop that one periodically, except for it's, it's bundled together with with my Disney Plus. So it's like I have a deal.

So it's not. And then with Netflix there's there's enough things on there to kind of keep me plus the kids really like Netflix so I guess I'm always going to keep Netflix but it's it's even on the fringe for me where I might shut that one down for three months and then come back for it and just save a few bucks here and there.

But pound for pound, you cannot take my HBO away from me. And I think the Emmy nominations, it was like 75, 74 nominations between succession, leading everything in the White Lotus, not far behind the Last of US, Not far behind. I mean, there's nothing that HBO for me can't do, right? I mean, there's no reason if you if all I could take was one, I would just go with HBO all the time.

I am a big EPICS fan, and then they've kind of muddied the waters by doing Fox on Hulu. So you're not really sure where their home is, but they make great content and they've got good stuff coming up for the next year, so we don't have to worry that all they're going to be out of the water. But like one of my favorites is reservation dogs.

That's going after the end of this next season. Fargo has a new addition. That'll be this year. Those are Epix products, but are they Epix on Hulu? So really, it's a Hulu thing, who knows? But HBO pound for pound if they don't mess around with Max Brown has a lot of good stuff.

That's the only thing that worries me a little bit. I mean, I've I've been an HBO subscriber either through traditional cable and then they kind of went to that HBO Now thing and then they went to HBO, Max and now it's just Max. I mean, I'm going to keep paying for it, but is as long as they keep these programs going, as long as there is some sort of Game of Thrones spin off or a nice, you know, dramatic comedy like a white Lotus, a dark kind of show like that for the wife and I to watch those types of things.

As long as they keep bringing those in, it feels like, you know, one show goes off the air and then there's something else waiting for me. But as soon as that stops, you know, yeah, they're going to lose me for sure.

Isn't it funny how you're voting with your pocketbook?

It is.

And look at how Disney Plus got a big bump when they did Hamilton. You know, people do see Hamilton. They threw it on there. That got a huge number of subscribe for them. And now they're kind of hurting. They're wondering, what do we do? We don't have that kind of content. We'll see what see what happens with that.

Absolutely.

I've got a movie that's opening here in Iowa. Yes. And it's timed. And if you've never heard of it, it's called RAGBRAI Register's annual.

Great.

Great bicycle ride across Iowa. I think that's what.

I think it is.

Yeah. It's a it's a 50th year where they they start at one end of the state and then they they bike across the state for a week and it's hotter than hell. Usually when they do it a lot of little towns get involved in all of this. It's a fascinating kind of social experiment. But it for most people in the state of Iowa, it looks like it's just a big rolling party is what it amounts to.

Well, they've made a documentary called Shift, and it's about four groups or four, I want to say four people, But they're like in Kabul, there's two people or there's two people in another and three, you know, But it's four separate stories basically, that are pulled together. That happened during the course of last year's RAGBRAI. And I had a chance to talk to the directors and how they did this and what they chose and how they were making their decisions because you don't have a chance at a second shot.

You have to do it all during that week. If you don't get everything shot during that week, not going to happen. And so I had a chance to talk to the directors, Courtney Crowder and Kelsey Kramer, and I think we've got an excerpt from that interview. If you care to listen, tell me about the project. When did you begin it?

Why did you begin it? Was it all time to be with the 50th? Tell me all that kind of stuff.

So it was when I mean, it was in the pandemic. So like 2020? Yeah. So I texted Courtney and said, Hey, I want to make this documentary and I want it to be really good, so help me. And we ended up we were going to meet at Starbucks, but all the tables were closed because it was the pandemic.

So we went to a park shelter and like sat down and spent like several hours just like talking it through and making a plan. And so we did. We knew we wanted it to be time to the 50th, just as like, you know, that was our news, Peg. So when we talked it there, we knew, you know, that we wanted it to be more than just sort of like a historical retelling of RAGBRAI.

We knew it wanted. We knew that we wanted it to be about, you know, people. We wanted it to connect with more than just people who are interested in RAGBRAI. We wanted it to be bigger than that. And so we, you know, plotted all of that out at our first meeting, you know, Mid-Pandemic And then really like going on it in earnest the January before the 49th ride.

So last January. And then going from there.

So how did you pick the people that you'd focus on? Was that like just spur of the moment or was it something that you, you know, we knew these ones would be good.

That was our biggest that was our biggest concern going forward is obviously the story had to have the subjects that really propelled it forward. And so as the main sort of producer of the story side, I took that on and started in that January reaching out in every humanly possible. So talking to people who had done RAGBRAI a lot, talking to people on our staff, just sort of reaching out and saying, what are the big stories?

What are the things that you've covered in the past that might be good for us to look at? Looking at some of the submissions that people had put on social media about their own stories, I ended up doing more than a dozen phone interviews, which became a little bit fewer, probably a dozen video interviews, and then we ended up with about seven storylines that we actually followed and four that end up in the film.

Well, and then have you guys been on a break right before? Have you done the whole thing, or was this like, Oh, wow.

I mean, we've both covered RAGBRAI, so I've worked at the Register for ten years and have covered RAGBRAI every year. So like some of the stuff that we include in the documentary are like people we knew about because we are very much involved in RAGBRAI, like the registered side of RAGBRAI coverage. Like, I also have always been a part of the route announcement.

Like I've sort of been a big part of planning the Register's coverage of that. So we've we're very involved in it. Yeah, Yeah. So it wasn't a surprise for us.

But then on the on a day to day basis, how do you know who to who to track or do you have other people who are going to do all that. And so you make sure you get something from each of them every day or what?

Yeah. So we had a team of ten people on the ride, seven videographers and three producers and a lot of it's it's one of those things where it's like plan as much as you can and then throw away the plan, right? So Kelsey and I sat down in the weeks before talking about which which videographer might match with which subject best, like they might have similar life experiences plotting out what days we'd like to do things.

And then every day we'd look at that again, right? So we sent them out a week's plan. Then every night we'd say, You know what's coming up the next day? What's coming up the next day? So we were following those seven storylines and then getting beauty shots of Iowa and that kind of stuff. But we were not deviating.

We knew those were our story lines.

So how.

We.

Don't freak out our you during all of that is like, Oh my God, we do we have anything new day. I don't know if we have anything today. This could be bad.

I feel like it. I mean, Courtney and I really I feel like we really knew what we wanted to capture because we had also spent time with some of the main the main people that ended up in the documentary. We had spent time with all of them before the ride, so we sort of knew like what days were were end, what moments were important, and we had kind of an idea of how their week was going to go.

And so I felt like we sort of knew when we needed to be like where we needed to be. And I think we really hit those marks pretty well. Then there was some adjusting, had one photographer ride the whole ride and he bounced around with different different characters. So he spent time with sort of all of our main people.

We had one photographer who Courtney got a bike part of the way through. We realized that it made sense to be on a bike with someone. So we, like Courtney, found a bike. We got another photographer on a bike. And I think that's where having a partnership really came into play, because I feel like any time I was reaching that peak anxiety, I could turn to Kelsey and she could call down.

And same thing for her, right? I mean, it was a lot. You have you have eight days to get what you need for a movie. And so I'm not going to pretend like that wasn't an anxiety inducing. It was, but it was like, stick to the plan, be flexible and just go, go, go, go.

Were you talking to each other on the phone all the time saying, Oh, this is what I found, Oh, this is great. Oh, we got to do this? Or was it like, Well, wait till the end?

No, we had texts going, you know, add you can you're in the middle of nowhere in RAGBRAI. So we had texts going all day long, and then every night at five we had this meeting with everybody from our team. You were expected to be there even if you had to go back out and cover stuff at night, you're expected to be there.

So that's kind of how we coordinated on the ride. So we talked through every day. We talked about what everyone filmed. So we had an idea every day what everyone had. And then we also had with a we had some extra help. So one of the people who was helping us was a woman named Kathy. And I'm not even going to try to pronounce her last name, but she is the photo editor for the Detroit Free Press.

So a part of going back came and helped us. And she was like looking at footage and she was she was out writing and she was like helping us as a producer. She was looking at people spotted and she was sort of helping guides with visual instruction too. And so every day, like all the photographers had a hard drive that they turned in and all the footage got backed up on a hard drive and then people got their hard drives back.

And so we were sort of keeping tabs all week. Yeah.

Or there were tragedies then where you go, Oh my God, we didn't get it, or I forgot to turn the camera on or anything like that.

No, And I think that's a really good point, though. Bruce is like one thing that I learned being a print reporter is the importance of being there. And I think for me that was the key takeaway is if you're making a documentary, if you're doing something on film and it sounds so simple, but it's really not, you have to be there.

So even as much as we knew the times that things were going to happen, we really tried to embed with these people because life happens when you're not looking right. Life happens in those small moments. And we just tried to be with them as much as possible because we can't recreate it, at least in our form of our documentary.

We don't have animations. This is all things happening in the time that they happened. And so then the documentary is based on what we experience. Yeah, it's we. So it's sort of like we had an idea of what was important, everyone's storyline. And then we sort of took stock of what we had and that was how we determined what was in the documentary.

So at the end then, what did you say to each other when it was done? I'm not the documentary being done, but when RAGBRAI was done, did you go, Did we get everything or do we have everything? Do we need something more or do you just kind of sigh and say, Well, let's see what we've got and go from there?

You know, I wish I was not so tired and anxious, but 100%, you know, I mean, driving back from Lansing to Des Moines, that's a four hour car trip to think about. Did we get it all? So I was I was definitely a little nervous. But honestly, it was for me, a feeling of euphoria because at the time, Deb, we were there with our characters and we had been apart because we were with them, embedded with them.

We'd been a part of their journey and their story. So for me it's like, yes, Director Courtney was, was worried and thinking about, you know, immediately making meetings for Monday. But Courtney was experiencing it with these people, understood that they were overcoming and they were celebrating. And I was excited to be a part of that. You know, I it felt like we got it.

Like I felt like I felt like in the stuff that we because we were interviewing everybody as they arrived, like as they were in line to go to the tired it and the stuff that we were talking about in those interviews was like, Holy shit. Like, we are going to have a good documentary like we just like, yeah, we just like captured something really powerful and that I absolutely felt that when we got to the end, like, oh, like, oh, this is going to be good?

Yeah.

All right, Bruce, thanks for that interview. Interesting. It sounds like an interesting concept. I'm always into kind of these documentaries on Netflix that look at unusual endurance types, things like climbing mountains and surfing. And so even though it is kind of a very regional thing, I think this is a movie that might resonate with me as well.

Would you do it or would you actually go on a bike ride across the state when it's 100 and some degrees?

Yeah, I'm not sure I will. I mean, when I was a little bit younger, I did a lot of biking. I did a 25 mile bike ride one time as part of a group in Milwaukee, and I used to bike regularly, like 10 to 15 miles, just, you know, kind of in the neighborhood type of thing. I don't know if I could do that.

That length and that amount of heat in the summer, that would be a little bit about it.

It was like 50 some miles a day. And then you party for the rest of the day and then you get up the next day and do another 50 miles and party that night. That's a lot.

It is. I've known a few people that have done RAGBRAI and including one individual who, if you looked at them, probably, you know, you're like, really? You know, because he was much older, not in the best of shape, but he did it. And I mean, because he biked regularly. So he had the he had the endurance to it to do it and he enjoyed it.

But yeah, I've been to Iowa in July and August and.

Michael, it's October, but I'll stay in the support wagon and, you know, in the air conditioning. Thank you very much and I'll meet you when we get to the small town And I have the piece of pie too, but I won't even had to ride at all. I couldn't. I am no good at writing. Bye. I fall over right away.

I have no sense of balance, you know? So it's not my way.

When somebody says to you. It's just. It's just like riding a bike, you know.

That's not then it's very difficult. It's like riding a bike. I can't do it. Not coming up.

So before we wrap, when are these strikes ending? Do we want to do we want to try to put this one out? I honestly at this point, I'm going to go November.

Or you go that far. I don't think it'll be that far.

No.

No. I think something's got to give. I think they're going to get really antsy around the Emmy Awards in September.

Okay.

And that will get them to think, well, we lost all the free publicity on this. Let's wrap it up. Let's try and do something, I think, before Halloween.

Interesting. I the only reason I'm going out to November is I think there's enough besides these horrible game shows and other unscripted, you know, actor free programs out there. The only thing else that's kind of hanging on is we will have the start of the NFL season. We will have college football, we will have the World Series and baseball.

We will have the return of things like the NBA and the NHL. I think there's enough sporting events where these distributors and and other studios and stuff to have something there. But come November, people are going to freak out because they're like, well, college football's ending and then bowl season is going to be gone. We need to get people back to work so we can start getting things ready for the start of the new year.

So that's kind of where I'm going with like early November. But that's yeah, we'll see what happens. Hopefully you're right.

Yeah, I want it sooner. I think I'm ready for tomorrow. Well, we'll see what happens.

All right. Sounds good. All right. Well, thank you all for listening to the latest episode of Streams and Screened. And we'll be back next week with Barbie.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It was a vacation week for one of the co-hosts, but one that had Hollywood ties far outside of California.

Terry Lipshetz talks about his family vacation to South Dakota, which included stops at Badlands National Park and Wall Drug, locations of the 2020 Oscar-winning film "Nomadland," as well as Deadwood, which, of course, was the location for the HBO series of the same name.

"Barbie" and "Oppenheimer" are set to open this week as "Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny" continues to underperform at the box office.

"Wham!" is a documentary on the group featuring pop icons George Michael and Andrew Ridgeley that you won't want to miss.

And the fifth season of "What We do in the Shadows" premieres July 13. Co-host Bruce Miller has interviews with Kirsten Schaal (The Guide), Harvey Guillén (Guillermo de la Cruz), Mark Proksch (Colin Robinson), Kayvan Novak (Nandor the Relentless) and Natasia Demetriou (Nadja of Antipaxos).

Finally, aside from the big blockbusters of the summer, there is a smaller movie gaining traction — "Sound of Freedom" starring Jim Caviezel as a special agent who tries to stop child sex trafficking.

Where to watch

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of streamed and screened and entertainment podcasts about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipschitz is senior producer Lee and co-host of the program with Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and longtime entertainment reporter who has been working a heck of a lot harder than I have in the last week because I am back from vacation.

What is this deal? You get a vacation and you take a vacation from watching movies.

Come on. I have yeah, I have watched the fall.

Movies are a vacation.

That's right. But when that's part of your job description, I have to.

Stop. I am watching around the clock things that you haven't even thought of yet. I've seen. That's how. How intense it is. And they don't take a break. There really should be a week where they go nap. No new movies this week. Nothing happening? No, no TV shows. Just sit still. Do whatever you want to do at home.

You know, that is that sort of exists in sports because that's actually the the genesis of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue started coming out in February because it was it was that time of the year when there was nothing. It was it was after the NFL's season. It was before spring training. Yeah, there's hockey and basketball still going on, but it's like, you know, you can only tell so many stories there.

So we're going to do a swimsuit issue. So that's what that is. And even in sports right now, it's a little bit of a dead time because we're at the Major League Baseball All-Star break. So there's the Home Run Derby, there's the All-Star Game, but there's really not a lot of sports. But yeah, you're right. There's not a not a true break in the movie entertainment world.

A swimsuit edition. Yeah. Yeah. Great for us. And then we just look at the pictures and that's all we care about.

But my my vacation, though, I didn't get away from the movies completely because we went. We packed up the minivan, we got the kids inside, and we headed west and we headed west. And we started seeing signs for see the the costumes and sets for Dances with Wolves and stop in, said Larry. What's that?

It's just.

Prairie. Do you just drag through it?

I've seen it.

It's good. Yeah, but we all drug.

We stopped it while drug. Yeah, because we stopped at the Badlands, which of course was a major plot point for the movie. Nomadland.

So you said, Would you please tell Frances McDormand that I want a double egg fried on wheat toast?

Right. I had a donut. That's all. I had it while drug. I had.

Free water.

Fabulous. I did not get any free water. No.

Oh, darn.

Darn.

Did you see the jackalope?

Yes, I did.

Okay. And they have like a mini Mount Rushmore in the back that you could always with. And I think you can get on. You can like I think there's a dinosaur there, too. If I remember right.

Yeah. At the exit. I know there was one dinosaur at the exit to get off and yeah, it's a pretty neat little place.

Well, can I give you a little spoiler alert?

Okay.

The spoiler alert in the new movie Joy Ride. One of the things they talk about is going to South Dakota or a second vacation. Oh, so if there's a sequel to Joy Ride, they're going to South Dakota.

Interesting. Interesting. And we ended up also in Deadwood, which was the location of or the setting, rather, one of my favorite HBO series of all time. Also called Deadwood. And it was it was fascinating to me because everything was named after, you know, a real life person who I also recognize recognized. Yeah, right, exactly. We did see the like the saloon where he was killed.

Was the virgin.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Calamity Jane, did you see anything with her?

We went up to the cemetery where Jane is buried right next to Bill. So we saw that. We saw some place. I don't even know it was like a deli or something. It. It was called Mr. Woo's from that character from the show. We saw the Gem Saloon. We saw a former brothel. They're doing tours there now, but you have to be at least 16 to enter.

So we could go in there, but it was open for the canteen. So yeah, we it was open from 1876 to 1980 until it was shut down by federal agents.

Oh, no, that's not the Ronald Reagan probably did it, right?

No, right, exactly.

And said, we can't have this.

We can't. No. So it was a fun little trip. And, you know, we saw the saw the sights and Mount Rushmore.

And did you were you in that kind of entry area where we we saw north by northwest, they redid the visitor's center. So it is did we the same But if you go now if you continued West and gone to Los Angeles the Academy museum for the Academy Awards has the backdoor out that they used in north by northwest of Mount Rushmore.

And did you not? I took a picture in front of that thing and I posted on social media and friend said, Weber, you had South Dakota? Well, I wasn't in South Dakota. I was at the backdrop of Mount Rushmore. So now my goal is, is to go there this year and actually take the picture so that it's angled just as much as it is or that backdrop.

And you can see but it is really weird because North by Northwest has been on TCM recently and when you watch, you go, Wow, this does look like a sad it looks real sad like. But I remember many years we'd hear stories about people who were extras in North by Northwest because they did shoot a part of it there.

And they talk about, you know, all I remember when Cary Grant came out and you think, boy, does that ever leave an impression? People people hang on this step a long time. So if you ever have a movie made in your town just know people will be talking about it 30 years from now.

I do want to go back though, now and watch Nomadland. It's been a couple of years and that movie, I don't know what you thought of it, but for me, that's probably one of my favorite award season kind of movies from the last decade. It was I thought it was just horribly depressing, but in some ways just a beautifully done movie too.

I never knew that there were people like that who were traveling around and just kind of living on the edge and that I thought, What could I do that? Could I be one of those nomads and then I talked to one of the people who are featured in the movie. She said, You could do it, you could do it.

It's a matter of getting rid of stuff. That's the big problem We hold on to way too much. And if you get it down to what you absolutely, positively need, you could go anywhere and do that and have that life. Now they don't get that choice. You know, a lot of times it's just there is no money there to to own a house or to rent a place or something like that.

So they they live on this on this edge and then go where, you know, the sun is. Because if you're in some cold place like here, it ain't easy being, you know, nomadic in the Midwest, right?

So you just need to get rid of all the crap in your basement.

And there's so much of it. I've been adding more because we're moving. Get the office by bringing in more crab haul because they don't want to throw it right away. I bet I'll look at it. Yeah. Oh, my God. It's the archives of the movie industry for the last 50 years. That's what it.

Is. That's what it is.

It's too much crap. And now new stuff coming. You know, yesterday in Los Angeles, they premiered Barbie and Barbie. Sounds like it's going to be huge. And I kid you not. It's going to be huge because it's getting good reviews. It has the backing of Mattel. So, you know, they're going to look for every dime they can find out of this.

And it's going to be kind of snarky and funny. And they say that can play by Ryan Gosling steals the movie.

I'm looking forward to this one. I mean, my daughters have been talking about it. And I think my wife was just going to be like, we'll leave dad at home for this one. I'll take the girls. Yeah, I'm like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I want to see this one.

Well, and you know, have you seen the the Oppenheimer Barbie mash ups? Because they both open on the same day and they've been doing goofy posters for the two together. It's very cute. Check out Social media. You'll find the Barbie Oppenheimer Duo.

Oh, I've got to I have to check that one out. Now, there's another film, which I am trying to get to see it, but it is not doing so hot right now at the theater, is it open number one? And then it this this past week it got knocked down to two by Insidious And it's like I mean, is this thing even going to recoup its money?

Indiana Jones in the dial Destiny.

I think it will. No, I think it will. I don't worry about it. You haven't seen it yet. So let me tell you that it holds up. It's too long. And they do this de-aging thing with Harrison Ford, where there's a big, huge action sequence at the beginning that I think because they wanted to make you maybe remind you of what Indiana Jones was like, but either it's a stunt man with his face superimposed on it, and then De-Aged it looks good.

It really I didn't feel like I was being duped or anything. It wasn't like it was the Polar Express, but it moves. It kind of borrows from the other ones. So you'll say, Well, this is kind of a plot point I've seen before, but it does have a number of return visits from friends. So you'll meet those people and there's an ending that makes you feel like, Yeah, I think Harrison can bow out now.

I think he's okay. But I enjoyed it. I thought it was, you know, he was too long. But I always say that about every movie. And yeah, I was fine with it. I did not. It was this. This. Oh, God, we can't go to that. I think they always get the first big week because they don't put anything big up against it.

But the second week, if you're going up against a horror film, come on. A horror film. The kid, the place is packed. When I went to see Joy right now, well, I'm not going to have to worry about Joy Ride because they're not going to see that. It was insidious. They were lined up. The kids are all over the place to see this thing, and it's horror films.

That's what they love. Yeah.

I think the other thing too, that you pointed out, the kids are lined up, right? The kids were not lined up to go see Indiana Jones. That one I had read had really skewed Gen-X and older. And it's rare because because moviegoer kids today are predominantly younger. So that one was it was almost like two thirds were 4045 and are going to see Indiana Jones and I looked at Rotten tomatoes the tomatometer on it from critics 69%.

So it's not terrible. It's not it's not like completely panned by the critics. The audience score 88%. So it's it's getting a solid reception from the people that are going to see it. It's just the audience that you would normally expect, like the last one, because I think the Last Crusade, which was the third movie and probably one of my favorite in the franchise was Sean Connery in it that won top Batman the year it came out.

You know, you couldn't expect this to be huge because it's too late. It should have been a lot sooner. I don't know that there is all that kind of interest in Indiana, even at Disney, where they have like a stunt show and then they've got a ride at Disneyland and they're not that popular. And so I don't know that, you know, I think it's more of a button that they want to put a button on the end of this thing.

And they could easily reboot the series if they wanted to in a different way. But they're not giving up anything that could be potential money. And so they probably spend too much on it. I would have made it 90 minutes because I think it would seem more like a serial, and I think it could have been just as good.

But hey, you know, Spielberg wasn't in on it. Lucas wasn't directing, you know, So that is what it is. But I enjoyed it. And maybe that's probably why The Rotten Tomatoes was up a little bit. That was my vote. I probably skewed it. It's not bad. It is not one of those ones where you go, Oh, will grandma like it?

We'll send grandma to this one. It isn't. It isn't one of those Clint Eastwood kind of things where you go, Yeah, this is just exactly like the kind of movie somebody who goes once a year should see. It's it's a way, for those of you who have seen Indiana Jones like Indiana Jones, to kind of finish it off.

Okay, You can't watch Lord of the Rings without seeing the third one.

We're introducing our kids to Indiana Jones right now. We got through Raiders of the Lost Ark. We got through Temple of Doom. Between the vacation and the fact that I want my kids to understand what Indiana Jones is before we take them is just kind of what's been slowing us down a little bit there, too. So where were.

Yes, they absolutely loved it. And even though it's a little bit more intense, a little bit more in some scenes, scary, they kind of equate it with national treasure in a sense, because it's got that similar history looking for relics kind of thing. So they they really love the national Treasure movies. So I can't explain to them. It's like it's a little bit like that to a degree, but, you know, a little bit more violent.

Love, though, how they always get the right clue, you know? Are they always able to? Yeah. Okay. This is the one that. What about a false clue where it sends them off on a real goose chase and they can't figure out what's going on. They don't do those in those kind of movies. They don't do that in this one either.

But, you know, yeah, I, I think they'll like it. But just now, two and a half hours.

Two and a half large beverage. Yep. Well, we got the bucket. The bucket of was ready to go.

That's all.

You need. All we need a big bucket of popcorn. So we're also middle of the summer. We are getting a steady stream of new TV shows popping out here and there. And there's another one and you've got some interviews with that. So can you talk a little bit about what's coming up?

Sure. Well, I just give you one little quick one to watch on Netflix. Sure. I think this will fit in your wheelhouse since you've been away from these things. It's a documentary on Wham and it is really fascinating because you tend to cut Andrew Ridgeley short and you don't think that he did that much. And you realize that it never could have happened without him.

It's a remarkable quick documentary that you don't see them now. You don't see them. They just you just hear them talking over footage from that time and what was going on and the things that they were worried about and how they. Yeah, one of the my favorite things was they had this last Christmas said they were going to have four number one hits in one year and they were all excited that they were going to have the number one Christmas song that year.

And then there was the be like USA for Africa British version. That was a Christmas song. And George sang on it, but it didn't they didn't get the number one hit and they realized that that was not necessary. We didn't see that. What the big thing was is that we were giving money to a cause that helped. But it's fascinating and how they all evolved from this because it was like they were 19 and 20 years old and they were thrust in the middle of all of it.

But that's it's wham, it's on Netflix as one you want to see.

Is it a just a single movie or multi-episode?

It's just one. It's a documentary one. Okay. Not even 2 hours. I think it's 90 when you Yeah, when you look at it on the thing, it looks like, oh, is this some kind of teeny bop thing that they're trying to do? It's not. It's a very well-done documentary, but don't expect to see interviews with them looking like, you know, all their old you don't see the old versions of either of them.

But they both do talk throughout the whole thing.

And. Well, and unfortunately, George Michael passed away in 2016. So but I guess, you know, they could have even brought some some more modern footage into it.

But know what, I, I think there's a whole other documentary that could be done about George Michael Post Wham!

Mm.

And you'll see how he was huge with that. But what was remarkable is that he never really got that the street cred from the business. I looked at 1 to 2 Grammys in his whole career. Come on. You know, this is one they're going to be doing a Bohemian Rhapsody about. At some point there's going to be a good George Michael movie that some actor is going to want to make because there's just so much there to uncover.

But yeah, that's one that you you should put in your list. And also starting this week is the BFI season what we do in the shadows about the vampires from your homeland?

My homeland of Staten Island, New York.

Yeah. Not Transylvania. No, but yes. And you've never watched this?

I have it. No, no. Some of those shows I'll catch like half of them. And then the other half just kind of completely elude me. Like I'm into shows. Like. Like Dave. Because that's an artifact show, right? And there's a few others that pop out there, like Fargo. I think that was an F show, right When that one's right on TV.

Did you watch Dave this year?

Yes.

Yes, I did. You see the Brad Pitt episode? Yes.

Yes. That is some of the funniest TV ever.

They're talking Brad Pitt for best. That's the former performer for that role. And I thought he was great.

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, that was I it was just a a bet. You know what?

Crazy, right?

The episode with Ray Stalker and what was his name? He like? He's like, no, no call. You can actually call me. And I can't remember what it was. Yes. My real name and then I had to Google is like, is that really his name? It it is a.

No, no, no, no, no, no. Did you watch the the bear?

I have not quite started the bear yet. That is that is like waiting for me now that I'm back from vacation to start diving into it.

Okay. Well when you get to the Jamie Lee Curtis episode, you will see the winner of next year's Emmy for best guest performance. Jamie has never been better. She plays the mother and she is unbelievable in that. And it's about I think it's episode six. But you want to ask now back to my what we do in the shadows, because you must see this if you haven't gotten involved.

You know, it's odd that something like Dave and something like the Bear the Bear can be considered comedies.

Right.

When this is out. Now, comedy, this is just unreal. Well, it's about these vampires living in Staten Island, and they have a familiar Guillermo who helps one of them and then really, in exchange wants to become a vampire and they kind of, you know, dangle the carrot before him and like, yeah, yeah, we'll get to that. We'll get to that.

Well, this season, he doesn't want to wait anymore. He doesn't want to have to hold on to, you know, whatever. So he becomes a little more independent and that forces them to be a little more independent, too. They go to the mall for the first time, which is interesting. Last year, Colin Robinson, who was the the energy vampire, and you have these at work, I'm sure, Right.

Well, you suck all the energy out of you. And, you know, they stand around your desk. You say, oh, please, go away. Please, please, please do not stand here. Don't ask me anything. Well, last year he had died the year before, and then last year came back as a baby. Colin Robinson. Then, then adolescence and Colin Robinson, then teenage Colin Robinson.

Well, now he's back to being himself and he's kind of as surly energy vampire at this point. And he works at a restaurant. And if you've ever had a surly waiter, this is Colin Robinson, you'll enjoy that. So he's back. But then the other one's Nadia. Last year had a restaurant of her own where people like Sofia Coppola traffic there and everything.

It all kind of went to hell. And so she's trying to pick up the pieces after the restaurant or the nightclub has closed. And Nandor, who is the boss of Guillermo, had Trouble with Love last year and is kind of searching this year, looking for where he might fit in at what will be his place, what will he be able to do.

And the guide, played by Kristen Schaal, is in this as a regular this year, and she is she becomes friendly with odd, different people. So there's a very big mix of characters and you'll get a chance to kind of see them in different settings. There is no one, I think one plotline that kind of carries through you just every time just go and you're going to enjoy politics becomes part of it.

So if you know anything about politics in Staten Island, it might be worth your while to watch that. But I had a chance to talk to five of the actors. Well, yeah, and you'll hear a little bit about what they have to say about this season and what prompted some, because I had quite longstanding questions that I wanted to know the answers to.

Nadia Neistat, Natasha, who plays Nadia, has this little doll that's kind of a doppelganger for her, and the doll is a ghost. It's as this is so complicated, you must watch it from the beginning. But the ghost kind of comes through that doll. And I asked her about playing with the doll, and I asked Harvey about the changes that he has as Guillermo and then the energy vampire and what that really means to everybody.

So there's a lot there to to unpack. Hopefully we'll be able to and hopefully you'll be able to tell who's talking at what time.

Okay, so let's set this up. So we I know with the interviews you had one set of interviews with three of them and then and then so who we want to go to first.

We'll start with Kristen Schaal and Harvey Guillén and who are Guillermo and The Guide. And they talk about the really the trick to being successful in a series like this and also what secret they've learned about being character actors. You are you have such a life where you're able to pop in and do whatever you want and it's like, what is I mean, right, Harvey Isn't.

That the way she is? I was ecstatic when we were lucky enough to get this. And like, I said this before, but I'm such a fan and I fanboy over her and quoted I met her at a party first beforehand and was already like an on then found out at the party that she's friends with Germain and stuff and and they had worked together obviously before and we got lucky enough that we were able to have her come play with us and then to have to come back again and to be recurring on this show and be such an addition, we're just lucky enough to have her.

And and I'm still a fanboy.

And say, Harvey, what is your Venmo handle.

That.

That is how it is done. It is done.

So so please do it.

Is it fun to be with them because they are. I have never seen a show that seems like it's this exciting.

It is the most exciting thing in the world. I mean, it every every episode is having something dumb, a spectacle, something that's never been done before, something that you'll come to work and you know you're going to be doing something you've never done before and you'll never do again penance. So rather you're going to be being with Richards, you're going to be watching, you're going to be staying irreverent things and and you're going to be doing it with some of the best people in comedy.

So my one of my most favorite jobs that ever had and I'm really proud of the show, too. Like I sometimes I'm proud of myself, but I get a little shy around some of them, but this one, because it's such a beast of hilarity every time someone they love the show, I go crazy too.

But does the guide have a name?

Well, so the guide had a name, but she forgot it.

So.

We can call her. And what's the deal with Familiars? Why doesn't everybody have a familiar?

Hmm. I think a lot of people do have familiars. I think that, you know, we look at the workforce and a lot of people are familiars in a way. They are longing to be promoted, they are overlooked, they are underpaid, underappreciated and kind of slave to labor to get that big promotion, to break that, you know, door open.

And sometimes it is come and sometimes you, you know, build a life around the career that you think will be a big payoff at the end. And it doesn't work that way. So I think gear represents a lot of us in that way where we see ourselves in Guillermo because, yeah, we've all been there. We've all been in love with someone maybe from afar, that we can express, having been real with our, you know, our honest, our feelings about something or our sexuality, our, you know, our overlooked for something at work, hate our boss or upset or our coworkers or I hate having roommates.

Like it's very relatable just because it's all human storylines with the I.

Just you covered all of us in him, right? He is.

Like, Yeah, this is it.

But you know, the strange thing is this was a real big break for you, right? How has your life changed after this? Because this is unbelievable. I remember when we first met you and it was like you couldn't believe that you were getting the job, and now you're on everything.

I still can't believe I am getting the check. Yeah, it's been an amazing, you know, launch pad, I guess you could say, with the show. And I didn't really think about the longevity of the show when I first started. I, you know, we got past the pilot because I really love the show so much. And to go back on season one and then season two and find out last season that we got picked up our season three to be up at ten for six seasons or two seasons out next, which is incredible.

And it's just such a gift, especially in this day and age. I feel like that's incredible. And, and yeah, I, you know, it's basically, you know, the show that I get recognition for other projects that in voiceover or live action or theatrical or whatever it is it's like I'm such a fan and would you love we would love for you to play this role.

And lucky enough that I've been playing different things a year or more, which is really nice because it would be easy to just kind of get stuck on one thing. But I'm very fortunate, very grateful to this show and and loved doing it. What was success.

Where you thought it would.

Be? I mean, what is success? You know, I feel like in my head I always wanted to act and and make a living off of that. And I think as long as you're happy doing it, even if it's a room of 99 seater or 2 million people and through a movie screen or a television screen, then you're giving it your best.

I always pride myself in doing the work that I would do regardless of the budget or the popularity of the project. As long as I can walk away from the project saying I gave that my best and I can say that I did my best, that's all I can do.

Yeah, well, Henry, I think you always been ready to be a star.

This is my mom. You see, Kristin, Rosalie, this. This going to ask.

You how much money you don't know, right?

Yeah. My Venmo is going to go through the roof that.

It's at orange it. But, Kristen, you are always busy, you're always working. And I don't know. What I can say is the reason other than you're really good at it. But is there something is there a secret to this that, you know, everybody wants to work with you? What is that?

She's amazing and everybody wants to work with you. So it's it's an easier thing to do when you work with someone as talented like Kristen at five in the morning after working 12 hours or 14, 15 hour days on set and you never want to bump into someone in the hallway that you want to be like, gosh. And every time you move into Kristen, her energy is so positive they can go another 12 hours if you need to, because that's the kind of energy and talent you want to be surrounded with.

So it's easy for me anyways. Anyways, I took.

A lot to pay out. Okay, lot the back.

But what is it? Is it because you bring a different sensibility to these roles or what is it?

Well, you know, I'm I li one of the things that I that is really exciting is yeah, like my friend Jemaine wrote the World Apart for me to be on his show and and remembered me from way back when. And and I find that when I get invited to play on different shows, it's usually to, to play roles that are going to be different and a little bit weird.

I like to think that I am really brave when I act and I'll just do whatever people say. Maybe that'll go down well, but well, if you have that much, I can't. I couldn't tell you what it is without saying that I'm the best actress in the world. No, I don't know. I.

You know, what? Can I tell you what I think the key was, both of you, is that you really love character parts. And too often I think people get into the business where they think I need to be the leading man. I need to be the the, you know, the debutante, whatever it might be. And you guys just find these characters that are so good that you can sink your teeth in, pardon the pun, and really enjoy.

And I think that's the trick, is that when these kids come out of these acting schools, they don't realize it. The best parts are not the leading man or the leading woman.

Bruce, don't print that. Now you do that. You did that. I, I think you and Mark Blackwood's approach could have stayed the same thing. Like, oh, being a character actor is the best gig in the business because the characters are always going to be different and unique and fun then, as opposed to the leading man or woman has to start to relate to a bigger audience.

But we get to play like very offbeat when we get to do the weirdest things. And we also don't have to see our faces on screen the whole time, and that feels good to get to.

All right, Bruce, thanks for that interview. Now, you also have an interview with three more actors. Can you set that game?

Tires? Come on, you don't tires.

Oh, I'm sorry.

All the time. So a three vampire kind of thing is is, I think, a trifecta. You get that there. So this time you're going to hear Mark Proksch, who plays Colin Robinson, and then you'll hear Kayvan Novak, who plays Nandor, and then Natasia Demetriou, who plays Nadja. And they are they interplay a lot on the show. So you'll see them interacting a lot on the series this season.

But here they are together, so good luck for me, right? You know, trying to sort all this out. But it's what we do in the shadows. And this is another set of vampires. Yeah. I'm Bruce Miller from the Sioux City Journal. You know, I looked at all of the the episodes they let us see. And I realize that this season is a lot about change.

Do you see that, too, that there's a lot of change in all of your characters?

So yeah, why not? I think, you know, our characters are always evolving, devolving and, you know, that's part of what makes the show appealing, I guess.

Change like, well, why does Nandor always go back to the the health club to find his changes?

You'd have to ask Nando that. I think you know he's it goes back to that was you know because he likes.

Doing weights man he likes being around other dudes.

And getting sweaty and like, you know, flexing his muscle.

That's the secret. That's easy. But Mark, you had the biggest the biggest shift from last year. How was that that season even? Were you even around that much or how was that how did that play out?

No, I wasn't around all that much. I filmed almost all of the the child sequences back in Los Angeles. And it wasn't until I hit well, Colin.

Hits puberty, I guess.

That I was on set and back. It was that was really exciting. I mean, it breathes some fresh air into the character for me, just like being.

Back this year was a breath of fresh.

Air for me and getting to be back with, you know, my friends and and acting against.

Them. You also a big change, though, in terms of potential career. There is an episode where you consider something else, and I don't want to say anything for fear of being killed, but you know, talk about vampires. There you are.

Yeah. And you know, what better place than politics for an energy vampire to cast its web? Yeah. I mean, this year was that there is a lot of change, and Colin is still trying to get his feet back underneath him and kind of get his groove back, I guess you would say. And, you know, there is some love interest there for him.

You know, at the beginning of the season, he's a waiter. Then he goes into politics and then there's another little shift at the end of the season. So it's it's a fun season.

I think, for all actors. I missed the nightclub, I got to say, not just was just wonderful. Do you miss it as much.

As I do?

Yeah, I was. I did similarly love it as a like, just as like, I guess as an actor, just there are certain sets that are really like, comfortable and fun to hang out on and fell. And that set was, was definitely one of those, unlike the attention to detail, maybe a little bit the fact that my name was in lights wherever I looked really, really lapping and being in that space.

So. And did you make.

Did you take anything from that set?

I did know to take a lot of napkins. Well, they basically like they properly, as always on this show, the set designers and props people like went above and beyond and all the not like napkins, bar mat straws like covered with my name. So I did take a few all those things and I still have my eye on one of the like big signs and lights.

But I also you've got to check yourself with this stuff. What you going to do, put off in your own house?

Yeah, of course you do.

Too, I think. I think my friends and family would disown me if I started, you know, one too many portraits of yourself in your own house. You know what I mean? I've already got about 15, so.

You know, And there's never too many. There's never too many. Why does Nandor add the only familiar? Why doesn't everybody else have a familiar.

I think, Laszlo, in that you did have a family. I think we had a series of families, but they kept dying, right?

Yeah, that was it. Kind of left off.

Do you just kind of let them go or decant You applied for new ones?

I mean, I think we probably heard, but we kept having a really hard time. They kept dying and really disgusting ways. And then we got so far who obviously, I think lips and they sort of a sweatshop underground and you're a slow they're kind of each other's Nadia in a weird way I think and they're also way less codependent than Nando and I think the reason why Nando still has a family and still has, you know him around is because it's Gamow.

It's because of their very, very intense friendship passes relationship.

But this could be the, you know, the end of that. So I'm just putting that out there. There there could be some trouble just saying. Right. And why is Nandor never happy?

It's a good question. He's been a miserable as any for quite a few seasons now, um, which are quite like playing, I think playing miserable is easier than playing kind of incredibly happy all the time. Um, he's searching, man. He's lost, you know, He's a lost soul. He doesn't know what he wants.

Is know where to get get it.

You know? Yeah. Mo makes him happy. But now again, why makes him sad?

Yeah, You want to hug him. And even though you think that'd be the person, you probably hug because he is kind of intimidating, right? Right there. The hug is there for you. I just know it's there right after this. Many years, though, do you guys say, how long can we do this show?

No, really. I mean, I think it's you know, it's still super funny. I think this last season, that's the season about that's about to drop is one of our funniest seasons. And I there's some examples of shows that keep going and keep being hilarious Like always Sunny in Philadelphia has been on for three seasons and it's still funny and inventive.

And as brilliant as it was day one, if not better. But when you started this, did you think it was going to be this long? No.

No Day and age?

No. Because, you know, all experience I'd had up until this was like, you do a pilot, does it even make it to television? Probably not. And then you're like, like at the end of season one, I was genuinely like, my cards was so sincere and like, it's been, you know, like because I was like, I'm never going to see these people again.

This is it, you know, like, it's so generous with morale. And then and then like, Oh, we're coming back. And I honestly, I just don't have a point of reference to say, you know, like, yeah, there'll be a season two and three, you know, you know. So yeah, it's, it's, it, it's really like sometimes I can't believe it when I think about it.

Yeah, well.

I think it could keep on going forever because vampires last come on a show about vampires could last two.

Thank you, Bruce, for those interviews. It sounds like a good season, and I think you're right. I got to go back and we got to start watching this. Yeah. Staten Island, baby. That's where I'm from. One of the five boroughs in New York City.

More than anybody. You are going to love this thing. And there's a movie that started the whole works and then it led into this series. But you must watch it and then you'll be asking questions. Say, was the one playing that person. You know, it's it's it's very fascinating. And you think, where are they going to go with this?

How could they keep going? But you could because everything is kind of a new a new world for that, even going out in the daylight. Another and it you know something I don't think I ever see. So we're good. But I want to mention one more thing before we before we log off for the week. Here's a movie that did not really have any kind of premium.

Let's see. I mean, people talk about it as that. But is this going to be it's called the Sound of Freedom. And Jim Caviezel, if you don't know who that is, he starred in The Passion of the Christ as Jesus. And like his good friend Mel Gibson, he likes doing issue films. And this is about child sex trafficking.

And it is getting huge audiences. Now, I don't know if there's like an underground of people saying, You must go see this film, but it's a hard watch because of the topic, and yet it does get you talking about the subject. So if you're looking for something and you haven't figured out where do I, what should I go see?

I don't want to see Indiana Jones. It might be something that you're interested in. I went to Joy Ride and I was shocked at how funny it was. Joy Ride was incredibly funny, but so dirty. This is the hard hour show that I thought our feelings was going to be. There are things in that movie that my mouth is still dropped open, but fascinating.

And it could be another one of those ones that cracks the the door for Asian actors because it's largely an all Asian cast. And they tell stories that are, you know, interesting. I've not heard it before and fun. And it's like watching The Hangover, but it's an Asian female hangover. Japanese shoe is in it. Yeah, Lee Park is in it.

So, you know, they they're starting to get big names. I thought, oh God, they're going to have Michelle Yeoh be in here somewhere. Right. But she wasn't so they're, they're branching out and I think we're doing a better job of that. But it's fun. It's fun, but it is a hard, hard. R And you can tell it's a hard hour because the previews are all hard are previews and you go, They can't do that in a preview, can they?

And they do.

Is that the one where they give you that instead of the green.

And the Red Band is the Red Band trailer.

That's right.

Okay.

All right, Bruce, thanks again. Another great episode in the books. And we will be back again next week with another episode of Streamed and screened.

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With the Independence Day holiday coming up fast, it seemed like a good time to talk about some of the best movies with a patriotic theme of all time, along with a handful of television shows sprinkled in for good measure.

There are classics like "Born on the Fourth of July," "Patton" and "Saving Private Ryan." Don't forget comedies and sports movies such as "Private Benjamin" and "Miracle." Actions films like the "Top Gun" and "National Treasure" films are patriotic. And of course, you can't beat a good film about the space race with the Soviet Union with "The Right Stuff" and "Apollo 13."

There are also a number of classic limited series on TV, such as "Band of Brothers," "From the Earth to the Moon" and just about anything from Ken Burns including "The Civil War" and "Baseball."

With the holiday week, we'll be taking a little extra time off before coming back on July 11 with an episode that discusses the upcoming fifth season of "What We Do in the Shadows." Co-host Bruce Miller also has interviews with members of the cast.

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Streamed and Screened and Entertainment podcasts about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with The Patriot of the Cinema, Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and the long time entertainment reporter. Bruce. That is so good. I can I have that as a calling in cards or anything?

Yep. Get them printed up. Patriot of the Cinema. I think that that's a good thing. You know, it's funny because during war years, patriotic movies do really well. People love that kind of stuff. And then in non patriotic times, good luck. Good luck. World War II, build with that. Now we're fighting aliens. That seems to be the the common enemy.

But it is interesting how they will touch a vein. You're in there. We have one that that has some ties to Iowa. Saving Private Ryan. Oh, yeah. Is based on a family. And I mean, there's there. It's not. It's not one for one. It is not a biography of that at all. But you can relate to it. And then you see.

Yeah, you know what? I can I can get this. I understand this, but there are a lot of you'll see them now when you watch on TV, especially on those channels where they're trying to push the stuff, you're going to see a ton of them that they bring out 1776, which is unwatchable. Basically comes out all the time this time of year because they think, Oh, you're in the mood for a patriotic film.

Let's look at those old declaration of the Independence guys. And it's slow. It wasn't even a hit when it was out. So the idea that you would go back to that, but one that you probably have watched in recent years that is fun in this way is the live taping of Amell Ted Deutch from odd Wait. And that, I think, is a great patriotic film to watch because it really does point out that these are fallible men and women, that they can make mistakes and we shouldn't look at them like they're statues or pictures on the back of money.

Yeah. So I think Hamilton is a good one If you're going to look for one this time of year to look at. Go back to it, because that's the gold standard for those kind of Broadway capture films. They did a beautiful job with that. Yeah. And that was a really good introduction for me because obviously I knew about the performance, but I hadn't seen it to that point.

So to see it on Disney Plus and my kids, we watched it with the kids and the kids loved it. There's still they still play the soundtrack all the time. And we took them to see the the touring version of Hamilton about a year ago. You know, with the the TV version, it has the subtitles that you can then read along with if you think the rapping is too fast.

And I think sometimes when you see it again in a theater, you miss some of the raps because either the sound isn't all that good or they're going too quickly. And at least when you go back to the the Disney Plus version, you can read it if you need to. It's great for old people, which is amazing in my crowd.

So there you are. Yep. So at the 4th of July holiday, we're going to go through here and just talk about some of our favorite patriotic films. And what else do you have? All right. Top Gun one and Top Gun two. Oh, absolutely. Right. Yep. It's a good I'm I'm on my list, Both of them. Those are. I don't even know which one I like better, because Top Gun two is one of the rare instances where where the sequel might be better than the original, I think.

Well, but you know what? You needed the one to understand the two. Right. We wouldn't it Val Kilmer out. How kind of vibrant he is in the first one. And then you see him near death in the second one. You kind of need to know both. So I don't know that Maverick stands alone, but I'd watch him together as a double feature.

Yeah, they're great. And I think what makes those films especially good is when you watch the original, they don't really say that you know, it's the Russians or the Soviets or anything, but, you know, and it's kind of the same thing with Maverick where they don't tell you who it is. But, you know, and it kind of makes it timeless, too, because you're not necessarily pinning it on any one nation.

So it could be just whatever you watch a 30 years from now. And whoever, whoever the villain of the time is in world politics, you can just say it's them. They're the ones that were fighting. Well, okay, so then we're in the mode of Tom Cruise. What about Born on the 4th of July? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a classic.

Born on the 4th of July. He was one of those two that Oliver Stone, because he he had also done Platoon. So staying within that theme of of the Vietnam War and just kind of different perspectives of course so. Absolutely fabulous movie. Yeah and hey Tom Cruise does a great job He's very good and very believable. You know, we don't just see him as a gung ho kind of military man in this one.

He's also an activist. And you can see other sides of things. The Vietnam War had so many sides to it, so many angles to it that to call a movie the Vietnam movie, is just impossible. And we'll still be dissecting that for years to come now, because it isn't just a one shot thing. And I think that's where a lot of people get kind of, oh, wait a minute here now, aren't we patriotic?

What's wrong with us? It's because during World War Two, they were gung ho on the American effort and all of those films had to have some kind of, if you will, a supportive statement that that guided it and deservedly so. When you look at the Vietnam War, people were questioning it all the time and wondering, should we really be there and what's the point of all this?

So it's a different war, a different kind of a situation, but I think it is a good one to look at. What about a a war movie, but a little bit more on the fictional side, like a Red Dawn from the 1980s. Red Dawn is BOND Yeah. And that that skews to a younger audience, too. Gives you a chance to see you know and look at just even last year where we saw all quiet on the western front how really young we realized those kids were in that situation.

And that's why Red Dawn does, too, is it shows you that sometimes we're sending children off to war. I remember that movie, too, and I loved it at the time. It's been a while since I've seen it. I should go back and watch it. But at the time it really it kind of scared me too, because it felt so real.

Because, you know, at the time you know, I never really thought the Russians or the Soviets would invade us, but it wasn't completely out of mind either. I mean, that's certainly within the realm of possible loyalty. And I think that added some reality to it. And on top of it, it didn't necessarily have a happy ending, like some of our heroes from the movie didn't make it to the end.

And these are kids. And it was you know, it was a tough movie to watch at times. Yeah, it was. Had a lot of adventure, too, depending on where you are in that in your life, you see it in different ways. You know, as an older person, you start like, those are my kids. These are like, they could be my children.

You know, as a kid, you're like, That could be me. So it's a different perspective. Okay, what's on your list? Let's hear some more. You mentioned Saving Private Ryan, which was on my list, but now I know we're talking mostly about films, but I do want to tie in here with Saving Private Ryan and the brothers and the brothers in the Pacific.

Now, the Pacific, I didn't find as good as Band of Brothers, but Band of Brothers is maybe one of the best limited series ever. I mean, is there anything better than that about World War Two? The people who were in it were nobody's, you know, the at the time. Yeah. And now you can just go through and go, Oh my God, that's old Mike.

Oh, look who's there. They're there. There's a bunch of them in it. And so if you go back for a second view now, it is long. It is. I did ten parts. 12 parts. It's a lot. And we don't see that anymore because we're so used to six parts and out or eight in and out. But it's worth it.

It's worth the, the set. I think it's a good a good film. And Tommy was involved in Tom Hanks is involved. And it was it was really good. Now, related to Tom Hanks is another arc that I'm going to throw at you. And it starts with the right stuff, which is, of course, a look at. Yep. And then Apollo 13 starring Tom Hanks.

And then, of course, Tom Hanks parlayed Apollo 13 into From the Earth to the Moon on HBO, gets that series. And then even more recently, even though it's completely fictional for all mankind on Apple TV. Plus, I love those space movies. And for me, from a from a patriotic stance, it's the rivalry between us and the Soviets to get to the moon, to get into space.

It's just a really great story. As in Hidden Figures, Many women played a part in this and was kind of like not a subplot any of those. So there are lots. The space race was clearly the Sixties story to tell, and I think when the Cold War was on, this was the way that we were fighting those battles.

We'd be first. You know, we'd haven't mentioned a comedy at all. A comedy? I would give a Benjamin, Sir. Private Benjamin That's a really cool look at how a spoiler woman, for lack of a better term, is thrown into this situation and becomes much better as a result of it and comes out of it and yet you can laugh along with her and you see her grow and you see that she's doing it in service to our country along the lines of comedy.

Would you throw stripes into that mix also? You could, but I don't know that that would out as patriotic. It's just more fun. Yeah. If if you want to do a military comedy, there you go. It might work a little bit better. Well, and then if you look at other ones, Clint Eastwood, he had a whole raft of patriotic like films that he did.

And he did the two parter thing where he showed one side and then he showed the other side flags of our fathers and the letters from Iwo Jima. Right. So he has his kind of, if you will, patriotic theme is like Spielberg has his. Yep. You can you can kind of trigger these Oliver Stone they're they all the almost behind that as a way to at least identify their filmmaking skills or to highlight them.

I don't know. What about some of the historical Lincoln like oh yeah Lincoln is one of my all time favorites because Daniel Day-Lewis always always dug in and would become the character. And honestly, after you see that, you think, I can't imagine anybody else as Lincoln. And we've had so many Lincolns over the years. But man is Lincoln is the way I want him to be, not to take this too far off topic, but is Daniel Day-Lewis the greatest actor ever?

The man retired because he he just couldn't do it anymore. The way he throws himself into it, he may not be the greatest, but he was the most selective. And he knew that if he was going to choose to do something, he was going all in and he didn't do. You know, you don't see some crap films on his resume where you go, Oh, that was a dog.

He shouldn't have done that. He waited. Yeah. And that I think that the real hard part for some of these actors today is they think that, you have three in your out, you know, you can have three flops and then if you don't have a good hit after that, you're down doing something that you don't want to go and you never did that.

And so I think the idea that he retired was maybe a great move. It's like Johnny Carson. He left and didn't do anything after that that you would say, Oh my God, look what happened to him. He looks so old or He doesn't quite have it anymore. But I know Daniel Day-Lewis is one of the treasures of the American cinema and not three Oscars.

Not at right. If you look at somebody like Jack Nicholson, Jack Nicholson has a very stellar career. But Jack Nicholson was playing Jack Nicholson a lot of those times. He did disappear in the character like Daniel Day-Lewis did. Sure. If that means anything. Okay, Peyton. Okay. What most about Peyton? I remember that big flag that he stands in front of.

Yeah, right. It's been a while. Oh, yeah. The flag. That was what George See, Scott played Peyton, Correct. I the personality. I think he was just more of the personality for, for, for me. I mean, it's been a really long time since I've seen Peyton, but it was one of those that it would just keep on showing up on either cable and I would just every time would come on, I would have to watch it because I just I was sucked in by the performance and how intense he was as a general.

Again, it's one of those things where you think I want the character to be like that because then it explains a lot of things. And maybe George C Scott was just doing his version of it, and Peyton wasn't like that at all, but it certainly plays well and it made the movie this huge hit. It was a big hit at the time it came out and people were, look at that.

It was like there was a 1970. Yeah, it's the Vietnam era, basically. And we're seeing a military film and we're saying, Oh my God, it's so great. That really took something that took some work to make that pass through all that all of that time, and then let you see what it's like behind the scenes. So he has Peyton is a real good one.

Great one. There's a lot of patriotism in sports to miracle. Yeah. Do you count that as one? Yes. I could get the I get the Olympic kind of thing. But I think with Miracle, because you're talking about the 1988 Olympics, which was, of course, around the time of the boycotts, because the U.S. boycotted the the Summer Games and then ultimately the Eastern Bloc boycotted the 84 Summer Games in L.A. You look, there was a time before professional athletes before like Western professional athletes went to the Olympics.

So it was about amateurism. And it was this one opportunity where a bunch of amateurs in a sport that the US doesn't even dominate in. I mean, we've got a lot of of great American hockey players, but they don't stand up with the Canadians or the Europeans or the Soviets or anything like that. So to be able to go out on your home ice and and to be able to beat the Soviets during the height of communism and all of that, I think that's a highly patriotic movie.

You know, though, isn't it funny how they've tried so many times to use that that kind of formula in another in another setting, you know, and and bring it around and it it doesn't work as well as that. You imagine Olympic films and Bud Greenspan would do an Olympic film every time there was an Olympic year. Mm. 16 days of glory.

I mean you throw them out there and those are always and it was a tough day for so-and-so and you know, and, and you do get that kind of moment where you think, Oh my God, this is bigger than what we think it is. It's not just somebody out there running as fast as he can. There's more on the line now.

TBS borrowed that concept and does these little kind of vignettes. It drives me crazy when they do it with American Idol, where everybody is supposed to have a story and our we're judging you on your story, not necessarily on your talent, but they've done that now. That was kind of what drove all of his documentaries, is that it was the story.

You didn't know about this. You know, it could be a runner who's able, but nobody's going to say anything because they don't want to spoil the day. And he gets out there on the day and he's running like a lightning bolt and he wins and then they tell you all the trouble that goes into that. Those are fascinating films to watch because you really don't know what's going on until they spell it out for you.

And he did a he had a very successful run of those kinds of films. And largely there were a lot of Americans that were featured because it's financed by American resources. So, yeah, Olympics are always good, always good for that kind of stir of patriotism that we feel. And come on, don't you don't you cheer for the Americans when you see the Olympics on?

Of course. Of course. Yeah. I'm you know, I'm I'm the kind of a yell out foul ball when it's not an American. So get out what else you have on your list and the others glory with Oh, yeah, with Denzel. I thought that was great. I have Gettysburg and I have a national treasure. Yes, that's on my list, too.

That's an interesting one, because you hit on what's come on. It's a mystery kind of, you know, Da Vinci Code ish kind of thing. But the idea that you get to visit some of those spots are what make it kind of fun to see. I really enjoyed those. Is a history buff, too. And my kids like them. And I've kind of used that as a gateway to introduce them to Indiana Jones.

Also, which I don't think it's quite as patriotic, no national treasure, but it's the same idea of like an archeologist kind of person who's into relics. So it's just from from a as a gateway into Indy for my kids. The National Treasure Series, I think is good and it's pretty low key. It's pretty kid friendly one I do not like.

Are you up for that? Sure. The Patriot. Okay. With Mel Gibson? Yeah. I think it's really heavy handed. And I think after I don't need this, you know, Liz and I. Yeah, I didn't blow it out for you. Yeah, I. I'd have to go back to my review because at the time I remember going we are they ever trying to manipulate us And frankly that's what all political ads are now is a manipulation.

So whenever you see any of these ones, who's got the bigger flag? That's what they're looking for. Who can who can sound like the bigger patriot and you know what? Patriotism is not something that you can put on. It's something that's in you does make sense. It does not sound like I'm reading from Bartlett's Familiar Quotations or something deep thoughts that nobody is running to see.

I see that so much with with politicians where they try to out patriot each other and like I am behind America more than you are, and I will salute more than you will. And no, and you know what? I remember the VFW and the American Legion man would walk in a parade on the 4th of July and they would salute.

And you felt every bit of their pride and the effort that they put into their country. And I don't know that that's at all what politicians are selling. You sound I'm against this this sponsored by the Adria. It's for Miller campaign. That's right. That's right. You know, it is it is really different. And I think we have not yet seen that great 4th of July movie, a 4th of July movie where maybe it's a small town that they're putting together, a small town celebration.

And you get a sense of what it means to be that kind of America and how it how it shuffles down. I mean, look it now, I said earlier, it's aliens were fighting and you'll see the Independence Day and you'll see all those kinds of, you know, I special effects kind of films where is that really it? I don't think that's it.

I don't think it's ahead Independence Day on my list for no other reason than it was. I don't know if it was a patriotic as much as just we're trying to save the world, but and it's titled Independence Day. So it's one day if you just kind of bring out for Independence Day. It's interesting and we'll see a lot of it.

Yeah, it'll be run like crazy over the 4th of July holiday, especially since now the 4th of July falls close to the middle of the week. Right. We'll have a whole weekend full of these. You know, they're going to be showing them wall to wall from Friday until Tuesday. So we'll see what happens. But, you know, we talked a little bit about, you know, World War two movies, Vietnam movies we're starting to see in the last decade or so movies with their more modern kind of wars, post-9-11 films like The Hurt Locker, Zero Dark 30, American Sniper.

Any thoughts on those? They're hard to watch because they are so real for us because we experienced a lot of it on the news. You know, we'd see these kinds of things and the whole bit with Taliban and all that. Are we are we through it? I don't know. And all of the 911 films that come about, you know, I think a lot of that is real, very difficult for those of us who've lived through it, to really sit and see it as something other than and, you know, one I'd like to push out there if you really want to look at a sense of history.

Ken Burns does such incredible documentaries about just every aspect of American life and the ones that, you know, he just did one about the Holocaust his last year, the U.S. in the Holocaust, and he's done the Civil War, he's done baseball, he's done Nashville, he's done, you name it. And he he touches on various aspects of our lives.

And I think inherent in all of that is a sense of patriotism. Yeah, he is a real proponent of, you know, who we are and what we learn. And where does this lead us? What what will we get from this? And that old line about how don't ignore history because you're doomed to repeat it. You know, I think he's reminding us, pay attention to your history.

Learn what happened so that then you don't make the mistakes again. I really wasn't thinking too closely about those Ken Burns documentaries because I was more in movie mode. But when you bring it at the Civil War, baseball, the one about country music, even though there are three separate subjects, they are very much intertwined in a sense, because it is about, you're right, patriotism, the fabric.

You know, baseball is is being like the fabric of America and one of those things. So, yeah, no, I love all those. You dropped me in front of a Ken Burns ten part documentary, and I'll see you in a week and then you're you're waiting. Well, wait a minute. I got to hear that voice because there are certain voices that always have to be in on these.

Wait a minute. Does he have them? And it's a very predictable kind of format, but he always has interesting tidbits that you never knew when he did. Ben Franklin, the Roosevelts. I mean, things that you go, Oh, really? I didn't know that. How come I have a knowing this all these years? And I think it's a matter of just digging in and finding this stuff and putting it in perspective.

What does this mean for the world at that time? Baseball is a real good one. With that, where he talks all about the players and what their place was and how important they were to, you know, maintaining morale in our country, black baseball players and what their struggle was like. There's a lot lot there to to unpack. But I think Ken Burns, if we're going with somebody who can really capture our times and our people and he doesn't like to do anything that's that current.

So you asking like, well, what would you do? It's about Trump. What kind of a Trump document he said is too close? We can't that we need to have perspective to be able to look back on these things and then see what we learn from that. That's yeah, that's fascinating. Maybe that's why some of these newer war movies should have been fewer of them to begin with.

But you just we haven't gotten enough time in between. And and we are seeing even now like a return to, you know, World War One and some of those earlier ones which we had kind of moved away from those early war. But we've we're kind of moving back almost to those just a little bit. You know, one fascinating thing, too, that you bring up with Ken Burns and those documentaries, if you remember in the baseball documentary, one of the guests, one of the figures talking about the history of the game was somebody that was I think he's always wearing a red sweater.

I don't know if you remember that guy in he kind of became known as like that red sweater guy in baseball. His name is Daniel Okrent. Right. He's an editor. I think they listed him in his he's an editor. He actually invented fantasy baseball. Oh, my gosh. He's the guy him in some friends of his created this thing called like they had a Rotisserie League Baseball thing.

That was the genesis to all of modern sports. So if you like, even if you're getting into some NFL fantasy football thing, you know, during the football season, it can all get traced back to that guy that was on Ken Burns Baseball. Did he make a dime of it? I don't know. No, I don't think so. I made those best ideas yet.

Know where. Right, Exactly. Exactly. Any other any other films you want to touch on before we head out? There are I mean, a number of just just Google patriotic films you like. I say, the World War two ones are fascinating because you'll find a story about a wife who's at home and what she has to deal with and the struggles and the pressures.

And that is very fascinating to see how they played that out or somebody going off to war, even something as simple as White Christmas. If you go back and look at White Christmas, where they're going to help this this fellow soldier there, their commanding officer, give him a better life. And you see that tie that something like the military does bring where you go white Christmas patriotic.

And it is it is a patriotic bill. So look at that kind of that period and look at those kinds of things they did. Even though they're singing and dancing, it could be a patriotic film. All right. Well, on that note, I think we'll sign off. Yep. Salute you all. Enjoy the 4th of July holiday. Throw some burgers and dogs on the grill, grab a cold one.

Fireworks. I love fireworks. It's the best thing ever. And you know they're not Eric. And I know. And a little trivia for you, Bruce. It will be my 15th wedding anniversary. Oh, my fourth. My wife and I got married in the 4th of July. We got married on the 4th of July. So 15 years this year. Oh, yeah.

So how do you celebrate? We usually go see fireworks. Okay, so we do that. But yeah, no, it's. We got married. We we had our ceremony, we had a reception, and then we. We drove out and watch fireworks. My wife, I was still in my tux. My wife is still in her wedding dress. Little girl comes up to her.

Did you get married today? And it was. It was fun. Oh, wow. But, you know, you can never forget it. So I've maybe that was that was that her choice? She said, let's get married on the 4th of July. It was my choice so I could never forget. So I was a kid. Well, you can always say these fireworks are just for you.

That's right. Exactly. Well, happy nursery and have a great 4th of July. We'll be back next week and we'll be talking to the cast of what we do in the Shadows. If you're a fan of the vampire show on Fox, we've got scoops for you about the next season and you are going to be surprised about what's coming.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The summer season opened with a number of big movies but a pair of films that opened last weekend fell short as "The Flash" managed only $55 million and "Elemental" took in only $29.6 million in U.S. box office results despite finishing in the top two slots.

Expectations were particularly high for "The Flash" considering the hype behind Michael Keaton reprising his role as Batman helping Ezra Miller's Barry Allen/The Flash character.

We dive into the movie — yes, there are spoilers — to discuss its standing in the DC Extended Universe, the various Batman and Superman cameos and the use of the multiverse as a plot device.

We follow that up with a discussion of Peter Sohn's latest Disney Pixar film "Elemental." While better than Sohn's first Pixar film "The Good Dinosaur," the movie lacks star power beyond Wendi McLendon-Covey and Catherine O'Hara and runs a little long.

What does this mean for the rest of the summer? It's hard to say for sure, but films up next might want to take note and be prepared for subpar results.

Where to watch

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Streamed and screened and entertainment podcasts about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with the Master of the Multiverse, Bruce Miller, editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter. Bruce, when you're in the multiverse, like, what are you doing in your other What's the other?

Bruce Miller doing right now? Other one is actually enjoying himself. This one, it's like the third circle of hell, You know, where you go, What am I doing? Why is this one so tough? But I think they always say that a different one gets you a better life. So I'm hoping that the better life is in another, more diverse universe.Unknown

Okay, so you brought it up now. You were the one. The flash. Yes. The Flash has these multiverses. This is the the kind of the overriding narrative that drives this thing, that there are many multiverses out there just like Spider-Man has the kind of the other world. And all I realize that this is is an excuse to be able to get rid of the actor that they don't want or is asking for too much money.

Because if you say, well, I'd like a dollar more to be able to do this, it got near you. We're going to go to another multiverse and they'll be different. We'll be fine or we'll go back to an old one. I don't know. I'm sick of that. And I really don't want those things to color. Just a straight old story.

Right. It's not. Whenever they need to get out of a problem, they just zip over to another multiverse verse and try and solve it. And that's what happens in the Flash. The flash as how much do we dare tell? Well, I'm out. If you haven't see the flash now, you're not going to see it. Right. So let's. Let's do this.

Should we just. This is a spoiler. This is not a spoiler free episode. Let's just now let's just go for it, because I'll tell you, I did like Ezra Miller as The Flash. I thought he was really good, and I liked him playing off himself because he has a two version kind of thing where he is good and at that kind of give and take.

He's funny and I know that they're trying for their own Spider-Man because Spider-Man skews young and I think The Flash, they need something like that in that old timey DC Comics universe. So all that is there was a good idea, and I'm glad they kept him. They didn't reshoot all that stuff, but then they decide that they're going to go dig back in some other universe.

And we see a Batman. We get a Batman. Ben Affleck, who I don't like as Batman, I never have and never will. And I think his term could be up, at least in my house, that he is. And then they go in and they find an old Batman, which is Michael Keaton. And Michael Keaton is a good Batman.

But they must have decided somewhere along the line that he needed a little more to do. And so they make him into Howard Hughes, and he's living in this old kind of rambling building or house or mansion or whatever you want to call it. And suddenly he's got more skills and toys than I ever remember because that Batman the thing with Batman.

Sorry, I'm on a rant, but the thing with Batman is he is a human. He's one of the only human people that don't have special powers or aren't from another planet or any of that kind of stuff. And now he's got a kid that can do everything. I'm not so sure about all that. I really I question it.

Yeah. So. Ezra miller. Forgetting about the controversies I thought was fine. No problems with Ezra. It was a solid, solid performance for as much as you could do with that role. It's, you know, obviously, it is what it is. And I had no problems. So I thought from. From just that aspect of it, totally fine. You and I have talked before.

I'm not a huge comic book movie person. It's just not my thing. I do like the Batman movies I like or I like seeing Batman movies. I don't always like the Batman movies. I like kind of the Superman thing. A little bit of Wonder Woman here and there, but that's kind of the extent of my superhero kind of movie going that I'll do.

I've never really seen any of the Marvel movies. Like one of them I saw That was probably a bad one, right? No, it was. Which one's with Ryan Reynolds? Oh, really? Ryan Deadpool. Deadpool. Yeah, Deadpool right now. Guy He's kind of in his own universe. He doesn't wrangle the others. No, that's. That's probably why I liked it. And it was just kind of somebody told me, Go see it, you'll like it.

And actually it was funny. And he makes fun of superheroes. That I like that. That's probably why I liked it. So. But my problem, my my problem, especially with these Batman movies and the whole DC thing is just the constant reboot after reboot after reboot after reboot in this. Like your point to the multiverse helps us because now you could just throw it all out and it doesn't even matter anymore.

Now there's another there's another movie franchise that I absolutely love, which is called the James Bond franchise. Now, they, of course, have had like seven James Bond's. But the difference there is the stories don't really conflict, right? You have you know, you'll get like six episodes of Sean Connery. He bows out. You bring in Roger Moore to do a half dozen, plus he bows out.

There's only been a couple of instances with short term bonds with George Lazenby doing that one that bridged the two. Connery's had a Timothy Dalton had two, and, you know, Pierce Brosnan by standards. What a year. You only had, I think, four movies. So that was on the shorter side. But, you know, even with with Daniel Craig, he was even though he didn't do the most movies, I think he was in the role for the longest.

Like he he was even longer than Roger Moore. He just he just kind of packed in more movies over a shorter period of time. I'm fine with that because it's just all those stories kind of live outside themselves. There's a little bit of crossover, a little bit of a nod here or there, but it's I'm fine with that, but it's just the constant starting and stopping with all these different actors.

I can't keep up. I don't even remember who Batman is anymore. And one other point that I'll make, too, is what I loved about the Tim Burton Batman with Michael Keaton, is that, sure, there's special effects? Sure, it has a certain look to it. But as you said, he's a superhero, but he's a human who's just taking he's a vigilante, Right?

So he's just kind of taking these extraordinary measures to kind of save save the day. They're vomiting special effects at us now. And I'm of the opinion that less is more. You don't have to. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it. And I think another franchise that kind of brought this back a little bit was Star Wars, where, you know, you had the original Star Wars, which sure had lots of special effects, but they they kept it pretty low key because they couldn't do more at the time.

And then I think the huge mistake with George Lucas when he did the prequel and back then, he just he went back. He like he re-edited the originals and put in all the special effects, which did not help. And then those prequel movies that he did, it was all shot against a green screen and it looks like and it doesn't feel real.

And what I think has been good with The Mandalorian and the newer ones is they went back and they're actually doing puppeteering again and the special effects that they do use in it, like let's De-Age Mark Hamill, because we can't have a 70 year old guy playing young Luke Skywalker. I'm totally fine with that. You know, you can bring Grand Moff Tarkin back because he's been dead for so long.

But those things I'm okay with, But you don't have to throw up special effects at me nonstop. So that's my rant, you know? Well, what I found with the Flash is they go back and visit all these other characters, right? And you have to remember too much. You need to know something about that version of whatever. And they have a number of Superman that comes when, of course, there's that the heart tugging moment when you see Christopher Reeve as as Superman come out.

That's that's the gold standard for that, even though his films probably don't hold up at all. But you see that and you go all and then they toss in a Nicolas Cage Superman with a film never got made. And so the idea that that they would do that, but they conveniently don't hit all of the Batman. And it must have been something where, you know and you think all well they get that's choices as artistic choices.

No, it was probably because Christian Bale said, there's no way in hell you're using my image in this film. And he had it written into a contract. So you get a little bit of Batman from the Adam West years, and then you go, Well, now what's that about? Because that's TV. Do we do TV Batman? Or is that not, you know, so there are these things that are choices that they make that I'm sure it's because do we have the right go call on this.

Call the lawyers, see if we got the rights on this one. We're going to throw this one in just because I think they got nervous at the end and they decided we've got to have all these people show up, not unlike Space Jam, where they took every cartoon character they could throw in. That was a Warner Brother cartoon and then just have you kind of go nuts about it.

And you go, Well, wait a minute, why is there Wizard of Oz in this? I didn't know The Wizard of Oz was part of Space Jam, but that's what they do. And I think they get nervous and they don't trust their artistic instincts and they just do this stuff. And I don't think all that was necessary. We caught the concept That was enough.

You didn't need to show a world revolving with every character there was in it. I would hope that if they go back to the Flash and do it again, he gets new adventures with different characters. That Zod thing crazy and it can be more, more Shazam like if you will. And and I think you got a good actor.

Let him just do what he can do. They obviously with the multiverse have set up a total reset of the DC expanded universe because they've kind of just said, you know what, we're going to we've closed the door now. On Ben Affleck as Batman, and it seems like they're largely closing the door on probably some of the other ones.

I mean, there's going to come back here. Any idea is that Superman not there shouldn't be another shot at it, you know, So it's selective lawyering is all it it. Yeah. I loved Wonder Woman when that came out. The first one I thought I thought 1984 was just terrible. I was so disappointed when that one. I remember even telling my wife I'm like, honey, I saw, I saw the Wonder Woman and it's fabulous.

We need to go. And it was on HBO. It was it was during the pandemic, and it was just on HBO. I'm like, Let's watch it. You'll love it. It's actually like, I don't like, you know, I don't love comic book movies. And then we sat through it. I'm like, I'm apologizing to her after because that's how bad I thought it was.

So I even with her roll, are they going to bring her back for another Wonder Woman or have they said, you know, the last one wasn't good? Like we hit we hit a homerun with one second, one was there. So we're kind of we're going to reset that now, too. This is our deal breaker. This is the way we cut the contracts and move on and whatever it wants to be, it'll be.

But I think blast is worth keeping. I just wish that they would do different things that they and not this concept of let all or nothing forget it, make it 90 minutes, make it good, Give us a situation and a and a character. You got it. Who is the new Batman? Is the new Batman George Clooney? Well, who knows?

Oh, you know what? You know, he's back and I can see why this is not doing well in the theaters. I think you've got to realize that you cannot rely on the Old Faithful, the comic book nerds who will come do this no matter what, because took in other people. And I think that's where Marvel went wrong, too, is that they want to tie too much together and if you're a casual viewer, viewer like you, Terry, where you see one, you go, What is this crap?

I don't know what this is all about. You've got to make it stand alone. It's like we say, you know, I, I read the book and there are lots of things aren't in the movie that were in the book. Well, it's the movie has to stand alone. It's got to be able to tell its story and move on from there.

And so that's that's where they go wrong. I agree with you. And you know, it only did 55 million It led it led the box office almost almost doubled, elemental. But the 55 million is a terrible, terrible opening when you consider we're getting back to a point where movies are opening at 100 million plus and you know. Yeah.

And Flash is clearly I mean, it's not going to it's not going up. I mean, next week it's not going to do 90 million in week two. It's only going to go down. So, you know, will it even recoup its money? And, you know, you bring up the point of the casual viewer. I was lucky because I had seen, as I said, I see the Batman movies, I see the Superman movies.

So when I saw The Flash, it all made sense to me. But if you're a casual viewer and you didn't know what the deal was with Zod and all that stuff, you would be so lost. Like if you came in because you're like, I love Michael Keaton from those those early Batman movies with Timothy Burton, you're just going be lost because you're going be like, What is going on here?

You just dropped the storyline. Makes no sense. Ellen Slater, if you were familiar with Ellen's later way back when, her appearance doesn't mean anything to you. So it is what it is. I think that they did a great job with the Flash on TV when it was on the CW, and I think he was a perfectly good flash.

But when they're going in another direction and you're doing something that it's a little quirky stick with the quirk. Don't feel that you need to go back to the traditional and grab something there. One other point I'd like to make. We talked about the multiverse, the concept of the multiverse, right. And how big it's become because we're seeing it in a lot of different things, you know, Spider-Verse and and we saw it obviously everything everywhere.

I wonder, I was thinking this is a it's a concept that basically replaces time travel or it sort of replaces time travel because that was such a driver of of, you know, show movies, shows of the 6070s, eighties, you know, like Star Trek when they would get stumped in like, well, what should we do? Well, how about we just send the Enterprise back 200 years to get a humpback whale and bring it back to the future?

Right. And then, of course, there's back to the future. So I started I'm going into this movie knowing that it's the multiverse and thinking to myself, like, yeah, this is completely replace like the concept of time, travel back to the future and all that. And what did they do is this they heavily referenced back to the future in the flash where in this multiverse Eric Stoltz is not the part got the part you know and again you have to have a point of reference to enjoy the laugh.

And if you're a young kid, did you know that Eric Stoltz was originally cast as Marty McFly? You didn't. So it it kind of falls flat on that. I is this made for critics? Maybe it is I don't know they just want them to say nice things. I mean it's cute. It's a cute concept. They do hammer it a couple of times and maybe I don't need to two or three times of that to get it.

Now, let's talk about Elemental, because I you know, I'm a huge Disney fan. I love all those animated things. But boy, did it take effort to like Elemental. I'm not going to call it the worst Pixar movie I've ever seen that Cars. It's definitely not the best Pixar movie I've ever seen it. From my perspective, it was fine.

It checked all the boxes. We went on Father's Day. We took the kids. The kids enjoyed it my way. Restless? Nope. They liked it. They liked the movie. My wife cried during a couple scenes. She enjoyed it. I was fine. I was fine. You know, I walked out of it and I was like, That's fine. That's fine. It's a fine movie.

It's not great. It's not terrible. It's fine. I got what they were trying to do. They're trying to talk. Really. It's the immigrant story. Did you come to another country and you feel like you are alone and you don't fit in with others and you don't want to mix with others? And maybe mixing with others is a good thing.

And we see how this works out in everything. But I think it tries way too hard to be jokey and it tries to make every person it can think of. Like I could see them sitting around a table and saying, Okay, fire. Think of all the things that you can think of that have fire in it that we can use.

This is hotter than and you know, and they would just throw this out and then try to kind of squeeze that in in the process. And the idea that wind water, earth, an air or a soundtrack by Earth, wind and fire, how they don't, you know, combine. Well, they do. And if you just did a simple experiment, you'd know that all this does work together.

And so they needed another villain. They needed somehow somebody to cause the problem that encourages them to come together to solve it. And they didn't. They kept these kind of universes or these worlds separate. And it was like, Oh, that's where the rich want people live. Oh, that's where the poor down and outer fire people live, you know?

And I don't know, it's a basically it was good to look at I don't know how you make a stuffed animal out of a fire, but yeah, I really had a prop. This is me now. I had a problem where they show this baby fire sucking on a can of lighter fluid. And I thought, this is like, wrong.

You don't if you image that to any little kids and they say, oh, lighter fluid, I could see a kid sucking on a bottle of that. I could. And so I think they didn't think through some of the things that they were playing. They just thought it was a cute gimmick and there it felt wet. I can see that, you know, as someone who grew up was born in New York and very familiar with the city culture and the concept of of a bodega that's run by an immigrant family, it resonated a little bit with me to an extent.

I got what they were trying to do again with the concept of, you know, a melting pot. And there were moments to even when I would lean over to my wife, it's like, is this family, is it is it a Greek family? Do you think they're touching on agriculture is No, no. Maybe it's Turkish. You know, it's like, oh, no, no, no.

Maybe it's like Pakistani or something like that. And, you know, and then of course, you see the relationship, the Korean heritage relationship, you know, to the Peterson And so and I think that's the point is you're not actually supposed to figure out what it is because it's this concept that it could be anything. Right. It's it's you know, these are the anyone that's an immigrant to this country or any country is going to face obstacles and discrimination.

And it doesn't really matter where it's from. It's just, you know, we're just going to bring in these concepts. So, you know, I think it's a good movie for lessons of inclusion and whatnot, but it just felt, you know, it's fine. As I said, I don't know how else to describe this movie other than it was fine. There was no stars in this movie.

No. And I tried to raise the voices and I thought, is this anybody? Is this somebody who is? And I thought at one point it was Miley Cyrus doing the voice of the Amber the flame girl. But no, it's it's not at all. Catherine O'Hara is in there is the mother. That's. Wait, wait. And it's that's the the the most notable actor that they they cast in it, which is kind of interesting from a few aspects because if you think back Disney up until really what the nineties largely just relied on on mostly unknown voice actors to do the roles and I think it was a lot of it had to do with like Toy

Story and The Lion King where you started casting bigger screen actors to take on these roles. So I am wondering a little bit because they went low key, because it wasn't just this barrage of A-list actors. Did that hurt this at the box office? Because there isn't that that big name? You know, normally what they do is they have and I was waiting for a Justin Timberlake song, actually, I thought this is almost like rolls.

They should throw in a Justin Timberlake song because there is a song in there. I think this is like one of those things they let people do with short subjects. They let them kind of go very creative and try things out. And maybe this one, they, you know, let's let's just give it a whole movie. Let's not give it a short subject because it seemed like a short subject concept.

And there is kind of a pattern to Disney Pixar characters that have a certain look that you can turn into merchandise. And like I say, I don't know how you merchandise this at all unless everything is just a character on a on a t shirt. But we'll see. It'll, you know, they'll do it. But I yeah I thought that of that kind of odd mix inside out did a better job of kind of blending things and making it seem like, okay now I don't have to think too hard on this.

And I thought too hard on this. I was trying all the time to make sense of it and I couldn't. The movie was a bit long for my tastes. Well, we again, animated films. Come on, I the kids start running about the 30 minute mark. And if they're not stopping by the 60 minute mark, you've gone too long.

I hate to get up to go to the men's room during a movie because I don't want to miss a thing. And as soon as the credits started rolling because and with these Pixar movies, you don't want to miss something at the end. So it's like the movie. The credits started rolling. I like beeline out, leave my family behind, take care of business, come back in because that you know, that gallon of soda I was drinking went right through me.

And then I was disappointed because there was nothing in the credits either. It just kind of they just straight rolled it. But it was it was a story that that I agree with could have been told in about 20 fewer minutes. And it would have been completely fine to keep the kids entertained. And I and I will say this, too, with Peter Sohn, who directed the movie, it's definitely the better of his two movies that he's done now for Pixar, because I.

I absolutely hated The Good Dinosaur. Did. Do you remember that one? I hated that, too. I hated it. Well, one thing I notice when you think of the good dinosaur, the only thing I remember was the grass looked good. It looked Grant's look good in. And that was and I remember walking out of it with my kids because they were a lot younger than am.

I like one of my daughters is crying. She's like, Dad, does this mean you're going to die, too? And because they killed now, they killed a dad. And I didn't like, Oh, good Lord, God, like you have to do. You have to kill a parent in every movie. Yeah, well, you know, interestingly, I think this is the only Pixar film that doesn't have a John Ratzenberger appearance.

Might be that could be a curse. That if you don't use him, you're in trouble. So I'm throwing out there that maybe they should have had him in there somewhere as somebody. But yeah, ice and earth. Did you ever see anything earthy besides that little kid picking the flowers out of his pits? Yeah. Yeah. And then they. The wind people.

It was a game, and that was it, Right? Right. And I would say that was somebody, too, from The Goldbergs, the mother on The Goldbergs as the voice of the Wind. Okay, Thank you. Wendy covered MacLaine to make clear she has a hyphenated name. When Wendi Mclendon-Covey Wright. Thank you, Your Honor. I'm sorry, Wendy. I apologized profusely, but you got a long name, you know.

Yeah, but Elemental 29.6 million to open. That is not. That's not where you want to be if you're Pixar. And on the heels of Disney wiping out a huge chunk of the Pixar department recently, maybe this is my this is well, it also came after light year because light year did not do well last year either. It's very much like Zootopia.

And I think if they're going to go back to that, well, Zootopia is a better way of dealing with it, because when you had characters who were goofy animals, you could be you could be snarky with them. And I think they wanted to be a little too noble. Yeah, Yeah. So Flash 55 million. Elemental 29.6 million. Not a great weekend for too big.

It's supposed to be two big heavy hitters. What do you think this this means? You know, coming up, is this just a blip on the radar? I don't think. Come up or what? What what do you think? Now, interestingly, we have no hard feelings. And Wes Anderson's new movie coming out this week, those will be low key because they're not expecting anything out of that.

I think no hard feelings will do really well once the word of mouth gets out there, because it's the old school R-rated comedy where it's like, ah, if you know what I mean. And I think people are looking for something like that, so that'll be a surprise. And then we get into Barbie week and boy, I'm seeing a lot of Barbie and I'm hearing a lot of Barbie, but it isn't all that positive.

So we'll see what happens. I want it to be very positive, but I think you know, it's going to be I think we're still on the roller coaster. I don't think we're there yet. We're not heading toward the the entrance of the theme park ride. So it'll be like Indiana Jones that'll go big. There's nerve endings about that thing, too, that it is not as adventurous as they want it to be.

These are viewers who've seen it and maybe, yeah, it'll still do well, Open. Well, it'll open big. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Like, it'll, it'll people like me will want to go see it because we're huge fans of the franchise, but we'll go see it. Maybe not like it and then not go back. So I don't know that it'll have a long run, but I think it'll open big.

Yeah, a little up, a little bit down. We'll see what comes in the next few weeks. Next week we are getting ready for the 4th of July holiday, so we are going to dive into our favorite patriotic movies of all time salute right. All right, Bruce. So thanks again and thank you all for listening to this episode is screened and screened.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We're heading into Father's Day, so there's no better time to take a look back at some of the great fathers in television and film history, as well as some more forgettable father figures.

Our list touches on a wide range of fathers, including Atticus Finch from "To Kill A Mockingbird," Phil Dunphy from "Modern Family," Walter White from "Breaking Bad" and Frank Costanza from "Seinfeld."

We won't give away the entire list, but rest assured there is some discussion of Homer Simpson, Jack Pearson, Darth Vader, Mike Brady, Tony Soprano and Cliff Huxtable. Yes, we're all over the place.

In other topics, the show covers "Jury Duty" and season 2 of "The Bear," plus new movies coming out including "Elemental" and "The Flash."

Where to watch

About the show

Streamed & Screened is a podcast about movies and TV hosted by Bruce Miller, a longtime entertainment reporter who is now the editor of the Sioux City Journal in Iowa and Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer for Lee Enterprises based in Madison, Wisconsin.

Episode transcript

Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:

Welcome everyone to another episode of Streamed and Screened and Entertainment podcast about movies and TV from Lee Enterprises. I'm Terry Lipshetz, a senior producer at Lee and co-host of the program with my entertainment journalism father figure. Bruce, you're editor of the Sioux City Journal and a longtime entertainment reporter. Hey, Papa. How are you? We'll try to talk to you.

Yeah, it's you know what? I've seen so much and been around so long that you can drop a name, and I think I can grab it. I think it's that easy. Yeah, I got to tell you, you know, even though we're entering that kind of dull season where all I watch is American Ninja Warriors, last night, I truly like that.

I that is my obsession. And I couldn't make it past the first one. But I loved watching that thing. And I never, ever, ever see the last episode of that. Never. I never know if anybody won or if it's it's just that whole thrill of the hunt. But last night, I decided I was going to binge something because I've heard too much about it.

And that's jury duty. Jury duty. I've been called for jury duty, but I've never I've never served on jury duty. But it's a reality show where everybody in the show, except one guy, is an actor. So there's this one gets kind of a Punk'd thing where they are trying to, you know, show how he would react during this situation, how he doesn't catch on.

I don't know. But James Marsden is in it as one of the people called to jury duty. And he's kind of an elevated sense of aspect of himself. You see this kind of pull of himself actor who you like, you know, third tier credits that they mention. Very funny. And I was just I was smitten with it. It's not necessarily well done, but there are so many moments that are such laugh out loud, funny moments that you got to see it.

It's on Amazon Prime and Freebie had it first, and I think you can find it through Amazon, but it is eight episodes and you just it it's like eating candy and I had such a great time looking at that that then you go to the next dig where you try to look up these people online to see if you've seen them in something else.

Because some of the actors looked vaguely familiar. And I think if I were that one guy, the first question I would have is why are we sequestering the jury for this little kind of two bit case? Why are we here for 15 days or whatever the amount of time was? But they don't seem to question it. It's like, well, I got a vacation and I'll be doing this, and here we are.

And then when they start spelling out the case and the guy who is, you know, defending the guy drops everything that the audio visual stuff doesn't work. You would be I would be very curious, like, something's up with this. And then I would look in my hotel room and think, I think this place is bugged. It's got to be bugged somehow.

But I do watch it because I think it is one of those kind of fun little summer things that takes no effort out of you. You don't feel like you're worn out after you've watched it. You do feel like it's something that you go, okay, like I had a good time. I love those little ones. They'll pop up on Netflix here and there.

Hulu or Prime, as you said, there's no effort, there's no thought process. I like like there's a few of them that'll show up on Netflix. They'll do those little documentaries like they the kid that wanted to buy the Harrier jet with the Pepsi points and they did four episodes on it and I couldn't stop watching it because it's just it's just a fun little romp.

So, I mean, I'm into selling Sunset on Netflix. That said, you know, Los Angeles area high end real estate show, and it looks like there's two bad little real estate offers on the sunset Strip. It looks like, you know, you could have a 7-Eleven next door. That's how dinky it looks. And yet they act like they are all, you know, catering to everybody who starts at $1,000,000,000.

And they basically seem to show the same house. It's like the same kind of URLs. All the houses in Los Angeles look alike. But selling sunset is another one of my binge binge. Crazes like that where you don't think and I think I need that after work is where you don't think at all and you let these people kind of just wash over you.

So for a make a reality show, remember, no thinking, wash over you. Here you go. Anything else you're watching or any movies on the horizon? Well, there are some things coming up I've been looking at, but I've not yet to tell. Not yet. And they had the big premiere last night of Indiana Jones. And so we're going to start hearing a lot about that.

If you haven't buried yourself already, please get on to one of those apps and you can put your picture inside a thing where it calls you a Barbie of some sort. Nice. That's out there in case you're looking for fun. Elemental. Have you seen Elemental or is that that's about to come? Elemental? No, I did go last week to Transformers and I will admit it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

Okay. I'm still not going to see it. No. What it does, though, you know, these they make no symptoms. They absolutely make no sense. And it started out with a toy that made no sense. And then they decided there was a film franchise. But in this one, they kind of back up and give you a little history about the things and why they are what they are and how they came into being and why they want to dominate the world.

So there's a little kind of a tutorial, if you will, that helps you understand this. And then they go on their little journey and transform into gorillas this time. Okay. Okay. And that is Optimus Primal. Not Optimus Primate, but Optimus Primal. Interesting. Interesting. I am looking forward to Indiana Jones. We've talked about this a few times that I've been hearing reviews, very mixed.

Like some people are loving it, some people not so much. So I'm really curious to see where that one falls. I could see that one getting very mixed reviews from critics, but doing very well with fans also gets critic proof. This is not one of those things that no matter how much people rant and rave, they're still going through it.

Absolutely. And I will dying to see it as soon as I can get to it. I am absolutely going to go see it. I'm just like a hardcore Lucasfilm. Indiana Jones Star Wars junkie. So I think they're absolutely, absolutely. Somewhere I have a whip and a hat, and that is one of the early warheads that's in my basement full of crap.

You'll find it out. If you ever want to excavate, that can be your Indiana Jones story. You go down there, dig out that stuff you got. Here's that whip. He was talking about. Yep, there's a whip down there. But you're going to see Elemental this way. Yeah. Father's Day. I love the idea that you get to pick the movie.

I know. Well, the options were. Hey, Dad, what would you like to do this weekend? And I'm thinking, I'm not sure. And then when my daughter says, Well, let's go see Elemental, so I'm okay, that sounds fine. The other option would was was Little Mermaid, and that was Oh, no or no on that one. And and the Barbie movie isn't out yet, which I, I kind of want to see that I'm kind of.

You want to see that. I want to see that one. So and I told them, I said I will absolutely go with you to go see the Barbie movie. But Elemental, I feel like you can't really can't usually go wrong with a Pixar movie. I love most of them. They've been a little bit more missed and hit the last couple of years.

But, you know, and they did just fire a whole bunch of Pixar people, like long time Pixar people, Disney. So that would be a great opening, wouldn't it? Yeah. Back. You'll have to pay for your own popcorn. Exactly. Yeah. I don't know if you saw that, Bruce, but. But Disney, because they've been cutting down because the revenues haven't been quite there and they wiped out a huge chunk of the Pixar Department and it included a lot of folks that had been there from the beginning.

Even they had a whole studio in Orlando that if you went to the Hollywood studios aspect of Disney World, you could watch them making, you know, God knows what. But it was animated films and they were actually doing the work there. And then they that one down and they shut some other ones down and then they went over to another country, did things there.

So who knows with that? And they almost shut it down before the original Little Mermaid came out. So it's hard to tell. I'm sure somebody in the in the money department looks and says, I think we need to make some cuts here. And the lowest profit area was. And that's where they go. Exactly. There is another program coming out soon.

Now, you have not gotten any advance screening of this, but you and I are both a bit of a fan of the show. The Bear season to come, it affects you. I have talked to people about the bear. I have done interviews for the bear. I've written a story about the upcoming bear, but they are very guarded about season two.

They are not letting out any kind of screeners. Now, that always is a bad sign when you do that with a movie. If you don't let anybody see it in advance, it's like, oh, we're worried about the about the kind of reviews we might get. But I think this one, because they've got really great people working on it.

I think what it hinges on is what this new restaurant is, because if you may remember, this is spoiler alert. So turn me off. They found a lot of money at the end of the episode. The final episode of last season. So they have the money to be able to make upgrades to this little the beef or whatever it's called restaurant.

So that it's not was kind of a hit and run sandwich shop. It's much more than that. And I think they don't want you to know what it's going to look like. I don't think they want you to know how the plot is going to unfold. And I can still see chaos in there in the kitchen. It'll still be there.

But it's that kind of surprise element that they want to say. And that premieres next week. Yeah, it's it looks like the 20, maybe the 22nd on Fox and then a day later on Hulu, I got into the show pretty hardcore last year. I didn't see it when it dropped immediately, but my brother reached out, one of my brothers who's a chef, and he said, You know, that's how this always works.

Like I go see the journalism things. And then, you know, he goes, sees the food ones, but he's like, Hey, you go watch them. Yeah, exactly. But he, he, he thought it was really good and just mentioned, hey, you know, if you're looking for something, then check out watch it. And I got hooked pretty hard. Now, I found with the show that I couldn't watch really more than one episode because by the time I picked it up, it was already season one was already done.

So but I couldn't binge it because I would get through one episode and there's so much yelling because it's in a kitchen, there's a lot moving on and they're yelling at each other and they're bickering because they're family or longtime friends and that kind of thing. And I just felt exhausted, like emotionally drained by the end of it.

But it's a fun it's a comedy and it's a good feeling. But it's a good feeling. Yeah. Like it wasn't a horrible dream. Like I'm never going to come back to this. It just felt like, you know, I gave the show my all for 30 minutes of sitting here doing nothing, and I just can't go anymore. I need I need like a one day buffer before I come back on episode two.

Well, and this was one of those kobin shows that they were in a bubble and they weren't able to do a lot of, you know, exterior things, a lot of stuff outside of their little bubble. So they stayed in it and they had a culinary producer, somebody who showed them how to do like chopping or where you would grab for a bowl or where pots and pans needed to be located.

So if your brother has a lot of like technical knowledge about all those things, it was absolutely technically correct. And they all felt that they had some degree of facility with all of that. But what the goal of the producer was was to throw you into that atmosphere so you didn't know anything. So that's why you felt the tension is because you felt like you were right in the middle of that kitchen and all that trouble happening.

And one thing that he discovered, well, he was like, you know, planning all of this show is that there were a lot of times he would order Uber eats and then it would be like, you can't we what is this? And that figured into one of the episodes where, you know, suddenly they get a jillion orders at once and they can't keep up with it and so they'll just turn off that app again.

They won't come. So that was a surprise to me when I first I thought, wait a minute, is this why I'm not able to order at 7:00 at night? They've shut me off. That's what the trick is. So there are a lot of things that we can learn in the process of this, but it also makes you very appreciative of what goes into a kitchen.

I think I saw Bob ODENKIRK is listed as a guest star for season two. I don't know in what capacity because obviously they won't screen it. But coming off a better call. Saul, I guess he's looking for work. Yeah, well, he is. And he had the lucky egg. Yeah, he's getting all over the place. And that will be, by the way, if you want to jump ahead to that concept, the they're really doing a lot of pitches for what will be nominated for Emmys because the Emmy Awards will be coming out pretty shortly, the nominations.

And will a Better Call Saul get something in its last season because it's been really cheated a lot. But will the bear get something? That's another one, because technically it's classified as a comedy, but it plays really dark. And and then you have ones like Ted Lasso who supposedly are wrapping it up. You give them one more shot, you know, So there are a lot of questions that are rolling around the Emmys right now.

Well, we'll have to come back at that as soon as the nominations come out to new movies we have or Mantle and we have The Flash coming out this week. And you could pick the Flash. I could have and you did. Kids didn't want to go see that one. Well, I think there are some parts that maybe you'd go, kids, maybe we shouldn't be watching that.

Probably. Yeah. Yeah, they would. They wouldn't understand. They wouldn't understand the Michael Keaton aspect of it either. They're not going to get excited. Yeah. Who's that old guy? That's Batman. And it's not Batman. That's somebody else. I think Superboy super be in it. Yeah, I'm not going to say, but yeah. So there are so elementals all fresh and new and it's a not unlike the inside out which took on emotions.

Right. And this is another one where it's element s so air, wind, water all that is kind of swirled together into one thing about learning something from yourself. I don't know I Good luck. Thanks. This better be a popcorn movie. It's. Well, I'm bringing back the bucket. Remember, I bought my my annual bucket. That will give you popcorn galore.

Exactly. I'm coming back with my refill and everything. So that's my Father's Day. Your Jurassic Park bucket. Exactly. So that's my Father's Day. So we also figured for this week we're going to talk a little bit about Father's Day. So we're going to just kind of segway from that theme over to the big day and and talk a little bit about some of our favorite fatherly figures from TV and movie history.

What do you got for us? Well, you know, whenever you say who is the best father in film, it goes to one and one only. Atticus Finch from To Kill a mockingbird is Bar None the best dad of all times in films. That's what whenever they survey people. And then maybe because that's the one they remember most. There are others.

There are many, many others. Field of dreams, you know. I mean, you could just go down the line, but I think Atticus Finch is the one that people are most tied to in terms of Father, do you agree with me or I? It has been so long since I've seen that movie. I don't know if I can agree.

I've seen it. I've absolutely seen it. It's just been so, so long now and it's been on a a a theater tour because it was on Broadway several years ago. And Richard Thomas from The Waltons is playing Atticus Finch. And, you know, it's it's one of those cases where dad tries it's, you know, set years and years and years ago, tries to convince his children that, you know, maybe sometimes the people that you suspect are right aren't necessarily right.

And then they rewrote the or brought out an earlier version of the book. And that had a different take on things. But it's Gregory Peck. Come on. Gregory Peck. Yeah. You wrong? Gregory Peck has always And maybe he felt that that was limiting, too. In the later films he made. He did MacArthur after that. So there are all these kind of larger than life real heroes.

I think he played Lincoln at one point. And so I think that kind of dogged him, if you will. But he was like the perfect dad. Now, who did you think was a great movie, Dad? A great movie, dad for me. You had mentioned Field of Dreams, and I always kind of come back to that movie. It's a movie about fathers and sons relationships.

It's a movie that I watched just a few days after my my dad passed away earlier this year. And it's something that we watch because he he died in, you know, march right around the start of the baseball season. It's a movie I go back to year after year. And I also think, you know, for myself as somebody who's in his upper forties and getting a little bit older and but I have kids and, you know, it's a little bit of a midlife crisis kind of movie, too.

You know, it's it's like you're maybe in that job, which isn't as fulfilling as you thought it was going to be or you're not progressing through life. You know, you had all these dreams as a kid. You wanted to be a baseball player or a movie star or a rock star, or maybe just be sitting on a pile of cash doing whatever.

And here he's just an average guy farming, and he's having a midlife crisis and trying to find a way to reconnect his dad. So, you know, Kevin Costner, I thought, really did a great job of that role. It's one as I said, I go back to that year after year after year to watch it and I get choked up every time I watch it at the end when he's just going out to play catch with his dad.

Yeah, yeah. It's a touch. It can really it can really get you when you need that. But there are other ones, you know. Clark Griswold. Yeah. He's a nearly good dad. Come on. He's trying to give his family the kind of vacation that they've always wanted. Yeah, if things go wrong. But his intentions as a father are good, I think.

Yes. Then you go to Steve Martin from Father of the bride. He wants to make sure all of that pulls off are right. You have the dad from Mrs. Doubtfire, Mr. Mom, Finding Nemo. Yeah, and that's a good one. There are good dads in there. The one that I hadn't really thought of recently. Minari. Do you remember that?

Did you see Minari about a family that moves to They're in an Asian family to move to the Midwest and and they're farming and everything kind of goes wrong. But the dad wants to make sure everything is right. It won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actress, a woman who plays the grandmother. And that dad was a good dad.

You know, Ethan Hawke in boyhood, if you remember. Oh, that movie. Yeah, right. And then we get to The Godfather. Carmen, can you be better than The Godfather? Very overly protective. Dad's there. Yeah, He's the one that you touch. My kid. I kill you. Yeah, well, and even the The Godfather Part two, when Michael Corleone slams the door, not even a slam.

It's just more of a a hard shot. And Diane Keaton, like I'm the dad, the cutting. You want your mom, you've made your choice. Yeah, And parenthood, if you're that and then one that's going to cross over. Now, when I talk about this is Friday Night Lights, the movie Taylor the coach. Now in the movie it was Billy Bob Thornton, but in the TV series, you cannot get better as a dad than Eric Taylor.

He was a dad to all those kids on the team. And I kid you not. That is one of those shows that I. I have the entire box set that I will if I need to can go back to that because it's so inspirational and it's one that I can't watch the end because I don't want it over.

But they talk all the time about rebooting it, but there might be a class reunion with that. But Eric are three Taylors in TV that you want to think about Tim Taylor, Andy Taylor and Eric Taylor. Okay. Andy Griffith, Come on. Andy Taylor was the best dad from my childhood. He was always so protective, so fun, so willing to do whatever.

Great. Tim The tool man. Taylor Come on. He was like the fun dad that you could climb, right? And then we get to my Eric Taylor from Friday Night Lights. Those are three big TV TV dads that that resonate the John Hughes dads, too, because we've talked about John Hughes movies previously, the Dan Aykroyd and John Candy and the Great outdoors, just constantly trying to one up each other or at least John Candy, just trying to keep up with Dan Aykroyd.

Right. That was always fun and trying to eat the £96 steak. Right? Right. There's nothing on that plate but fat and grizzle. And then you look at the bad dads ones we'd find on TV. Homer Simpson, come on. Does it get worse than Homer? I don't know about Red Forman from that seventies show. Oh, he was kind of always grumpy and and barking orders at people.

And, you know, one day that I really hated Mike Brady from the Brady Bunch that Brady anything he just sat there and he was like doing architecture stuff for the kids were whatever but I really thought he was a bad dad if you were picking them out and more recently on TV, Jack Pearson is a good dad. Oh, yes, right.

Yes, This is us. This is us. Yes, he is that all-American dad. He everything is always positive, can do anything wrong. And he would be willing to go to the ends for anyone. I don't know. When we first saw him bad in the course of that series. No, I mean, he might have done things that were like. But I don't think you could ever classify him as a bad dad.

Still makes me nervous every time my wife pulls out the crock pot, though you don't wear it out of the house. You know, I'm not looking at about it was so angry. It's same and same. It's a slow cooker. It's fine. Oh, man, you know, You know who I always loved for? There's a couple of dads. I wouldn't necessarily call them good dads, but they were just to me, very entertaining TV dads.

Frank Costanza by Jerry Taylor from Seinfeld. And then the relationship between Ray Romano, Peter Boyle and Everybody Loves Raymond. I thought that connection was just really especially coming from a new York background, the the complaining about everything and just a very relatable relationship for me. You know, it's funny because in the new series Barb Kiss with Pete Davidson, he kind of has this thing, you know, in real life.

He lost his dad in 911, right? He had this kind of projection, if you will, with Ray Romano and Everybody Loves Raymond. And you see kind of a sense of that in this show. And Ray Romano does a kind of a cameo bit in the in the thing. But it is interesting. What about Phil Dunphy from Modern Family, isn't he like every dad who tries too hard?

Yes. I never could quite figure out if I liked him or not through the whole series. Like there would be some weeks where you just love Phil Dunphy, but then other weeks where he's just so ridiculous that I couldn't put up with him. And that was a show, too. I love Modern Family. I don't think I watched the final season.

I think I kind of tapped out. Oh, no. Yeah, you get that? It hit that point where I just. I saw enough and it was kind of the same thing for me, episode after episode, where it just kind of lost me that last year. And I just said, you know, I'm good. We peaked. Yeah. Is there a dad that you relate to?

What kind of a dad are you? I'm not Darth Vader that I know people yet. Not yet. Who am I? I do think I am a little bit of a rake in, Sela. I'm not ready to take up my backyard yet, but I feel like. Like a you know, I'm kind of in in that point in my life where I'm things aren't always what they were meant to be.

And I've had to go through some changes here and there. And, you know, can I this has always been my theory because I'm so old that I can have that Yoda like turnabout experience in your twenties. Anything's possible, right? In the thirties, you realize I got to get something done or else I'm going to be kind of wasting this life.

Forties. You feel like, Oh, did I make a mistake and go the wrong way? Am I? Should I regroup and start over fifties? You think you know what? I don't care. I have made my point. And in the sixties you're just glad you're around. So I'm still I'm still okay. But it's it's that kind of you know, and it's like class reunions where you go, well, I've got to prove to them that I've done something or, you know, whatever, and you find usually if you go to a class reunion, you'll find that the person that you really didn't see as the most successful is the most successful.

It could have been. The kid who was quiet in the back, got C's and didn't really cause a wave. And the one that you thought was the most likely to succeed maybe didn't. But look at those. Look at those ears and see what you if you don't agree with me on that, because I find that in the twenties you were just like, Oh, I can have fun, but I better hurry up because I've got to do something with my life so that it makes sense.

And that's the thirties where you're like all freaked about what it is. And then the forties, you're sadly for a little something. And then like I say, the fifties and sixties weren't we don't care and you can easily badmouthed people in the older years too. That's always good. I've got a couple of years still until I hit my fifties but I'll I'll give that some thought for just know that that's where your head is so great where you don't give a damn that I have that and I like I can hardly wait until it's the unfiltered years.

The seventies in the eighties when when I can just say whatever I think about somebody or doubt, worry about it, let it go. That's my my grandfather, who's 93, my last living grandparent, and he just doesn't care. He just totally unfiltered. Yeah, I think you look a little fat. Don't you? And you go, Wait a minute, You're not supposed to say that.

You're supposed to be nice, right? Yeah. I remember even with my in-laws, one of my wife's grandmothers who passed away a number of years ago, the one of the last time I saw her before she passed away. She's like, You've put on some weight since the last time I saw you. And I'm like, okay, we're we're good here.

If a whale came in the room, you wouldn't say those kind of things, right? So, yeah, but you'd say, My God, in your head, this one really looks like it got out of hand. But in your mind, Oh, you. You look like you're so healthy and you're having such a good time. How are things going? You know, that's what I'm waiting for is the unfiltered.

I'm just saying it like it is. So. You look marvelous, Terry. Thank you. I appreciate it. One last bother on my list that we didn't touch on Tony Soprano. Yeah. And is he a good dad? I don't know that he is. I think he's very protective of his family. I also thought, you know, he was a great dad when he took Meadow up to New England to go looking at colleges.

And he was very, very much wants to make it a dad daughter weekend, help her find a school. He found a rat. He took care of that, cleaned himself up after the murder, and then went ahead and finished a very nice weekend with his daughter. So I think he could have a moment there. You know, he took care each care business, but also took care of family at the same time.

Don't you think that his wife had a stronger influence on the kids than he did? Yes or no? I think that Carmela and there are all these similar types of movies and shows that get into that mafia stuff. It's it's always the same where they try to paint the spouse as kind of like, you know, some unwitting bystander.

But they're fully they know everyone. They know everything. She know she knows where the guns are hidden in the wall. So, yeah, it's like The Real Housewives of New Jersey, as much as they act like they don't know what's going on in their businesses, they're right there. And when they go to court, they're just as guilty as the husband.

So I've probably seen every episode of The Sopranos at least three times because I watched it when it came out initially. And then I also a long time ago was writing a weekly column for newspapers in New Jersey with my thoughts about The Sopranos each week. So I'd watch it then. And then a few years ago, I actually rewatched the whole series again, and I thought it held up.

Other than the flip phones, you know, the cell phone technology changed. But I thought by and large, the show itself held up very well. It was always the same thing with Carmela, where she would get angry. Tony got a change and then he would show up with a Porsche Cayenne or a diamond necklace. And then she's like, I love you, Tony.

And then I would it would totally change her demeanor for about three episodes, and then it would kind of go back in the other direction. That's the secret. That's the secret that a father learns about a mother. Yep. Right. Absolutely. Okay. Red Forman was a loud, mouthy one. But then you get to Ward Cleaver. What in the hell did Ward Cleaver ever do?

When he put on the suit? He went to work and he came home, and then he was served a drink or whatever, and he read the newspaper and had to be kind of the judge of the kids went, Oh, you better go see your father. And then he would kind of like take an eyebrow to them and, and well, now, Beaver, what happened?

All that kind of Well, weren't Cleaver was a big a a big fake he did nothing so yet he gets on the list of the best of the best dads and then I'd be remiss not to mention Cliff Huxtable. Oh, yeah. I didn't know what to do with him. What? I loved it. Well, now we're we're doing the character, not the not the person.

All right. But what I loved about Cliff Huxtable is that the kids tried to schmooze him and, you know, they would try to use that. Oh, dad, you're just so wonderful. And you kids are just stupid. He would just call them out on things. And it was like it was a dad who was on to them. And I don't think we had seen dads who were on to their kids and how they just kind of work their wiles because I'll bet any money that your daughters work you.

Oh yeah, yeah. You know, And yet here was a dad who said, No, I'm not buying into that. And I don't know what you know his job. Well, what exactly was it that he did? Because he stayed at home all the time. But I did enjoy watching that dynamic. I liked the dynamic. And then the wife who had the upper hand on him was a an interesting kind of dynamic.

I thought Walter White, could he be considered a good dad or a bad? That I don't know. I was wasn't sure if I wanted to put him on my list or not. I one hand I thought he was you know, he's thinking about himself. He's he's presumably terminally ill and he's looking out for the long term good of his family.

But he also had a lot of flaws in his planning and execution. Can bad equal good? I don't know. That's one of those things. All right, then what about the monster dads like Gomez Addams or Herman Munster? They were fun dads. Do they fit in there? Do they? You know, and I don't saw I didn't see any kind of parenting that went on with them.

No, there was none. I always I think I preferred Gomez Addams. So as a father, yeah, Herman was stupid. Yeah. And he was just kind of bumbling around, which isn't unlike a lot of men currently. We've still got Dan Conner on the Conners and he has changed over the years. I've probably seen two episodes total. I think I watched maybe one episode when they rebooted it as the new Roseanne show, and then not long ago, just almost by accident, I kind of watched a bit of an episode of The Conners and it was fine.

I liked him as a dad in the original series, but I also thought he was a classic blue collar, right? Do we know what he even did? I don't even remember. But he was a working man's dad. You work at some kind of factory plant, whatever. But he was. He was a solid Midwest. Yeah, working dad. It was.

He would make sure they stayed afloat no matter what. It meant that he had to do another job or had to do something else. They were going to stay afloat. And I like that he did in Indulged Roseanne in her kind of pipe dreams. Mm hmm. Which was interesting. But I think things are a little a little back to normal with the new series.

I don't know. But how about Full House Danny Tanner? Yeah, he was a little too upbeat for me. I don't know that the show was fun to watch as a kid. My daughters watch that show on stream. You know, we we turned on Fuller House for about 30 seconds and then flipped it off. And I, I at the time when it came out, we thought it was a little too grown up for my kids.

Yeah. So they could probably watch it now. They watch they watched the original series Front to back and loved it when it aired originally. I enjoyed it. I watch it now and the shows are to me are very tough to watch because I think it's just it's not realistic. Like you can afford this house. It's probably $8 million and San Francisco, your buddies are living with you.

What's that all about? It's just it was a strange, you know, in retrospect, a very strange show to me. A lot of memories with those characters. But yeah, well, that's. Oh, and then more recently, Blackish Dre. Interesting. But I found that he yelled a lot and I did not watch that show. So yeah, I thought he yelled too much for his own good and was always kind of flustered and I didn't really care for that.

I like Anthony, though. I think he's a great actor, but I don't know that he necessarily he was more in the line of George Jefferson. I want to be honest about all that. And yeah, and so right now, I don't know that there is a dad like Jack Pearson where you would go, okay, that's our big TV dad right now.

What about All in the Family? There's a classic TV dad for you. Yeah. And I don't know that he was really that fatherly knew. He didn't think Meat Head was good enough for his daughter. Right? I mean, he's protecting his daughter, but I don't know that he ever did anything. You know, particularly I don't know Dad, like, know about when he was in Archie's place.

But I Yeah, I just I don't think he's considered a dad at all. No, I think that's more of the show is, you know, the Archie Bunker character very ground breaking for the time, you know, to tackle issues with race and in all of that during the seventies. But beyond that, it does a great job of capturing I mean, I don't think those episodes could ever run today because there were too much political discourse about the points that they take.

But it is fascinating when you look at them in retrospect and you think, my God, these were things that were being thrown out on the television airwaves when we were just, I guess, naive. Yeah, a lot has changed since then that is. I don't know which you could do it. Is that the last? Yeah, I think that's about it on my list.

You covered a lot of ground there. I had a few in mind Again, Darth Vader. Not the best, Dad. He did try to reconcile with his son at the end. Okay, but now think about this. Were we just duped into thinking he's bad because of the perspective we got? Or was he just. Yeah, you sound very Obi-Wan Kenobi there.

It's just from a different point of view, right? I mean, from his perspective, he was probably a great dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Know, he slaughtered all the younglings. That's all we know. He went into the Jedi temple. And what you won't do for your kids, right? I know, Right, Exactly. We're going to go refill that bucket, though. That's right in the middle of the mantle.

When you think, oh, I can't watch this anymore, you go back and get an extra fill. I am looking forward to my popcorn. Any anything on the horizon, Bruce, before we sign off, you know, I really do want to dig into the flash, so if you get a chance, zip over to flash and see that because that has been such a troubled film all during its duration.

And now let's see if the hype actually if that was part of the hype or if indeed this was that film that had to be released because it is so great. So if you get a chance, please see that. And we'll talk the Flash next week, because I really want to know where you said I'm going to try to get there because my family is heading out of town, but I'm sticking around.

So maybe I will. I will have a date date evening with me, myself and I. And there you go and bring that bucket And I absolutely bring in the bucket. All right, Bruce, thanks again for another episode. Well, Terry, Happy Father's Day, too. And have lots of fun. And to all the fathers and listeners out there or the fathers that want to be fathers or whatever it might be, happy Father's Day.

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