As former president Donald Trump trades the White House for Mar-a-Lago, his luxury club in Florida, he leaves in his wake a Republican Party in disarray. Trump is threatening to support primaries against Republican politicians who he believes were disloyal to him. State parties are sharply divided, such as in Arizona, where the state Republican Party has doubled down on Trump and is planning to censure Republican Governor Doug Ducey, former Senator Jeff Flake, and Cindy McCain for not being sufficiently loyal to Trump. In Vermont, Republican Gov. Phil Scott, who supported Joe Biden and has been a frequent Trump critic, has slammed the Vermont Republican Party for “white supremacy dominating, racial inequity, and so forth.”

To talk about where Republicans go from after Trump, we’re joined by Stuart Stevens. For 25 years, Stevens was the lead strategist and media consultant to top Republican politicians, helping to elect presidents, senators, congressman, and governors. He was the strategist for Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney in 2012, and he worked on George W. Bush’s two presidential campaigns. Stevens, who lives in Vermont, is a senior advisor to The Lincoln Project, a group of ex-Republican operatives who opposed Trump. He is the author of the bestselling book, It Was All a Lie: How the Republican Party Became Donald Trump.

Is the GOP a threat to democracy? “Of course it is,” replies Stevens. “I don’t see how you can argue that.”