The Vermont Conversation with David Goodman

It has been nearly two decades since a Vermonter won a coveted Rhodes Scholarship, widely considered the most prestigious scholarship in the world. The Rhodes Scholarship pays for international students to pursue postgraduate studies for up to three years at Oxford University in England.

This week, Lena Ashooh of Shelburne was named a 2025 Rhodes Scholar. She is one of 32 Rhodes Scholars chosen from the U.S. from over 3,000 students who applied. According to the Rhodes Trust, Vermont has had 43 Rhodes Scholars since the first cohort in 1903. The last Rhodes Scholar from Vermont was named in 2006.

"It's so special to be named a Rhodes Scholar as a Vermonter," said Ashooh. "People have such a special attachment to Vermont, even if they're not from there, it occupies this really beautiful place in their mind. It's a place of respite and joy and progressivism."

Lena Ashooh graduated from Champlain Valley Union High School in 2021. At CVU, Ashooh was active with 4-H and she founded Mi Vida, MiVoz (“my life, my voice”), a group that brought together the children of migrant farmworkers in Vermont with other youth to share stories and discuss how to make change. In 2020, she was named one of Vermont’s top youth volunteers and was recognized with a national Prudential Spirit of Community Award.

Ashooh is now a senior at Harvard. She is pursuing Harvard’s first major in animal studies, an interdisciplinary program that she designed that combines philosophy, psychology, biology, and political science. She explained that animal studies is a way to study social injustice.

“Looking at the ways that animals were mistreated or their freedom was being restricted also allowed us to attend to ways that people, and specifically vulnerable people, are also being mistreated, being subjected to exploitation or to disease and illness and pollution from farms,” said Ashooh.

While in college, Ashooh has lobbied legislators on environmental justice, worked as an intern for Vermont Rep. Becca Balint, and has done research in Puerto Rico on macaque monkeys. She is co-president of Harvard College Animal Advocates and she also plays the classical harp. At Oxford, Ashooh plans to study animal ethics, and address the question: “What does it mean to respect an animal as an individual?”

“My hope is that working on this question seriously as it pertains to animals might give us better philosophical concepts to be applied with humans as well. That can enable us to ensure that each person's individual value and the valuing of their contributions can be protected.”

Ashooh will pursue a postgraduate degree in philosophy at Oxford and is considering attending law school. She leaves open the possibility of returning to Vermont. 

“I've always found Vermont to be a front runner in spearheading progressive ideas that might change the way the country is thinking … I think Vermont would be a very exciting place to return to to try out some progressive policies that might help us head down that path towards a brighter future.”

President-Elect Donald Trump has vowed to take revenge on his enemies. He promised to begin mass deportations of undocumented immigrants on Day 1 and to further restrict reproductive rights. And he is threatening to overturn longstanding environmental protections and public health measures.

With Republicans now in control of all three branches of government in Washington, state attorneys general are being described as "a last line of defense against Trump."

Vermont Attorney General Charity Clark says she is ready for the fight.

“The federal government can't break federal statute. They can't violate the Constitution, and it's attorneys general like me who will represent the states in making sure that that doesn't happen,” said Clark. During Trump’s first term as president, Democratic attorneys general sued the Trump administration 155 times, winning 83 percent of the cases.

Clark noted that Trump “has a penchant for breaking the law. He doesn't respect the law in his personal life. He didn't respect it as president, and we can anticipate that he's not going to respect it again.”

“We're going to be ready on day one,” she said.

Clark was first elected attorney general in 2022 and re-elected this November. A native Vermonter whose family owned a popular grocery store in Londonderry, Clark is a graduate of the University of Vermont and Boston College Law School. She went off to New York City to work for a large law firm for six years before returning to Vermont in 2014 for a job in the attorney general’s office. Eight years later, she became Vermont’s top prosecutor. She is the first woman to be elected attorney general in Vermont (her predecessor, Susanne Young, was appointed by Gov. Scott to serve the final six months of Attorney General T.J. Donovan’s term when Donovan resigned in June 2022). Clark is currently one of just a dozen female attorneys general in the country.

“One of the things that I feel almost resentful about is the chaos that a Trump presidency is going to bring on us,” said Clark. “I think about especially my daughter and kids who are in elementary school now and pretty much their whole lives, have had either this chaos or the specter of this chaos and the fear of the second Trump term, and now we're getting it again. …Except this time, we're going to be ready.”

What happens if federal agents attempt to round up people living in Vermont who are undocumented, as Trump has threatened? 

“How is he going to pay for it? Who's going to perform the work? How many immigration officers do we even have here in Vermont?” replied Clark “I think we need to sort of stay calm, but we also need to plan and prepare.”

Clark believes that Vermont’s Reproductive Liberty Amendment, passed in 2022, will protect reproductive rights in the state, but a national abortion ban could upend it.

Abortion is “symbolic of the concept that women are independent human beings who deserve to control their own bodies. And it's appalling to me that we are where we are in this country,” said Clark. “I'm proud of where we are in Vermont, but it is hard to imagine we live in this country where people in Vermont, in every single town, voted to enshrine the right to abortion in our state constitution. And how can our viewpoint be so different from other places in this country? It's honestly disturbing that we are a part of the same union, and yet we have such differing views on this fundamental question of bodily autonomy for women.”

Attorney General Clark concluded with a message to Vermonters.

“I want to reassure them that as their attorney general, I'm going to fight to protect them. I'm going to use every tool in the toolbox to do that.”

“We also have to keep faith in our democracy. And in Vermont, we have a very strong, robust democracy. And we need to keep reinvesting in that vision and participating, even as we look to the future to another four years of Donald Trump.”

America has chosen a strong man — with an emphasis on “man.”

Donald Trump wagered that that a key to victory was appealing to men. His misogynist comments, his contempt for social and political norms, his embrace of authoritarian strongmen around the world was aimed at winning over men, especially young non-college educated men. It worked: the 2024 election results reflected an historic gender gap, in which most men voted for Trump, while most women voted for Vice President Kamala Harris.

The two century-old tradition of electing men to lead the U.S. continues, at least for another four years.

At the age of 91, Gov. Madeleine Kunin has a unique and long perspective on politics. She is the only woman to be elected governor in Vermont, serving three terms from 1985 to 1991. She went on to serve as U.S. Ambassador to Switzerland and Deputy Secretary of Education under Pres. Bill Clinton. Kunin founded Emerge Vermont to recruit and train Democratic women to run for office.

Kunin’s politics have long been informed by her personal experience with authoritarianism. A Swiss Jew, her family fled Europe in 1940 as Nazism spread.

“I'm inspired in a strange way by my proximity to the Holocaust,” she said the morning after Trump’s election. “We have to speak up. We have to participate. We can't just sit down and shut the door and stay by the fire. We have to fight more than ever and figure out how to be most effective.”

“We will have to fight hard to protect democracy from here on in.”

As a pioneering politician herself, Kunin said she was “very excited about the possibility of electing the first woman president. I hoped I would live that long.”

She mused, “In a time of uncertainty, the public likes a strong man.”

Kunin reflected on the need to “have more of a dialogue with young men so that they begin to understand who we are. That schism, that gap between men and women is not good for democracy.”

In the aftermath of defeat “your first reaction is to retreat,” Kunin conceded, “but I don't think we can afford to retreat. We have to still be activists. We still have to participate and make our voices heard… We just have to force ourselves to keep democracy alive and to express our political and social views and make sure that as women, we remain active.”

Kunin’s advice to women is to “keep on doing what you're doing … I would urge women to continue to strive for top offices and not be totally discouraged by this election.”

Kunin confessed that on the morning after the election, “I felt the real doom and gloom. But as the day goes on and as I'm talking to you, the fighting spirit is fighting its way back into my mind, into my psyche. I know we can't give up.”

As the 2024 presidential campaign hurdles to a climactic finish on Nov. 5, the two major candidates made their closing arguments. Vice President Kamala Harris spoke on Tuesday at the Ellipse in Washington, D.C., where she promised to be a unifier, casting Trump as a “petty tyrant” who wanted Americans to be “divided and afraid of each other.”

Trump made his final case in a six-hour long rally at Madison Square Garden on Sunday that featured a comedian describing Puerto Rico as a “floating island of garbage” and mocked Jews, Hispanics, Blacks and Palestinians. The New York Times described it as a “a closing carnival of grievances, misogyny and racism.” Many observers and historians have noted that Trump's rally evoked memories of a 1939 pro-Nazi rally held at Madison Square Garden that was captured in an Oscar-nominated film, “A Night at the Garden.”

The 2024 presidential race remains razor close. But longtime campaign strategist Stuart Stevens is confident of the outcome.

“I think Harris is going to win easily. I don't think it's going to be particularly close,” said Stevens.

“It's the most stable race I can remember. 47% of the country is either MAGA or open to MAGA and 53% isn't. So the Harris campaign's goal, task, challenge has been to get as much of that 53% as they can and get them to vote. So we wake up in a world where our Senator Bernie Sanders and my old friend Liz Cheney are on the same side. That's not a bad coalition.”

Stevens was a top adviser on five Republican presidential campaigns, including for Mitt Romney, George W. Bush and John McCain, and he has been a consultant on dozens of GOP campaigns for governor, Congress and the U.S. Senate.

Stuart Stevens now contends that the Republican Party has become an authoritarian movement. Vanity Fair recently described him as “the campaign cowboy who famously left the GOP to turn his fire on Trump.” He has written several bestselling books about his political conversion, including his latest, “The Conspiracy to End America: Five Ways My Old Party is Driving Our Democracy To Autocracy.”

Stuart Stevens is now a senior adviser to the Lincoln Project, which is working to defeat Trump in the 2024 election. He grew up in Mississippi but has lived for many years in Stowe.

Stevens pointed out that early voting turnout, especially by women, is breaking records. “What is striking about the early vote is that women are voting at 10% higher than men ... (and Harris) is winning women by 14 points ... Even I can do that math," he said.

“When this race is done, it's going to be seen as the women of America spoke,” Stevens asserted.

What happens to Trump if he loses?

“Trump is never going to concede,” Stevens predicted. “They will attempt to have the House (of Representatives) not certify. I think the period from election night until January 20 is going to be the most dangerous period in America since the Civil War.”

Stevens anticipates that if Trump loses he will quickly declare that he is running for president again. “No question. That’s all he does. It's his business. He's not going to go out of business.”

Stevens rues that “Trump didn't hijack the (Republican) party. He revealed it. And the reason that Trump is popular in the Republican Party is because he's what Republicans want.” Even if Trump loses, “it's not going to be the end of Trumpism." 

Stevens said that he is not optimistic about the Republican Party, “but I'm very optimistic about America. I just don't think that this is what the country is.”

America is drowning beneath a tsunami of lies.

The 2024 presidential campaign may be distinguished by the sheer volume and audacity of lying. Donald Trump has made embracing The Big Lie—the false claim that he won the 2020 election—a condition of entry into the MAGA universe. Once you accept The Big Lie, similarly brazen but smaller lies flow easily. And so Trump falsely claims that immigrants are eating pets and that disaster relief money is being stolen by Democrats and given to immigrants.

Lying is a bipartisan phenomenon, but Republicans dwarf Democrats in the number of lies that they tell. In September, New York Times fact-checkers analyzed a single stump speech made by both presidential candidates. Former President Trump made 64 false or inaccurate statements in his speech, while Vice President Kamala Harris made six such statements. In October, CNN determined that Trump made 40 false claims in just two speeches.

During the course of his presidency, Trump made 30,573 false or misleading claims, an average of 21 per day, according to the Washington Post. 

“This is the flood-the-zone concept that … Steve Bannon articulated early in the Trump presidency,” said Bill Adair, who founded the Pulitzer Prize-winning fact-checking organization PolitiFact in 2007 when he was Washington bureau chief of the St. Petersburg Times (now the Tampa Bay Times). “The other practitioner of this is Vladimir Putin.”

Adair is now the Knight Professor of the Practice of Journalism and Public Policy at Duke University and the director of the Duke Reporters’ Lab. He has a new book, “Beyond the Big Lie: The Epidemic of Political Lying, Why Republicans Do It More, and How It Could Burn Down Our Democracy.”

“I think the consequences (for lying) are minimal, if any, now for Republican politicians, because the echo chamber repeats the lies so easily and Republican politicians are not held accountable,” explained Adair.

Fox News has shown that political lying can be profitable. “Conservative media not only has looked the other way when Republican politicians lie, but conservative media has echoed the lies brought in by commentators that have repeated the lies, and conservative media, interestingly, has found there's money in those lies,” said Adair. “Fox found if it did not repeat the lies about the 2020 election, that it lost viewers.” 

There is also a price for lying: In 2023, Fox agreed to pay Dominion Voting Systems $788 million for peddling phony conspiracy theories claiming that Dominion voting machines had switched votes from Trump to Biden. 

Adair argued that the disparity in political lying between Republicans and Democrats “has serious consequences. It not only makes it impossible for us to have a serious conversation about climate, to have a serious conversation about immigration, but it threatens our democracy. Because we can very easily envision not just a rerun of 2020 come the results of the November election. We can see that this time it could turn into a real crisis for our country all because of li

Can social media bring people together rather than divide and deceive us?

In the world of corporate social media platforms such as X (formerly Twitter) and Facebook, the notion of a nontoxic public forum seems quaint. These are places where political and personal brawling goes on 24/7 and disinformation flows as freely as cat videos. The platforms rely on high conflict to attract eyeballs and make money.

Vermonters have another option. Front Porch Forum (FPF), co-founded in 2006 by Michael Wood-Lewis and his wife Valerie, is a decidedly friendly online place where neighbors go to interact civilly with one another, and do what neighbors do: seek advice, buy and sell things, and discuss local issues without resorting to personal attacks. The site is heavily moderated by real people who read each posting and filter out items that offend, incite or misinform. It operates in every town and has nearly 235,000 members, including nearly half of Vermont’s adults.

The discord common on conventional social media is “not an accident,” said Wood-Lewis. "Another way of saying people are attacking each other and acting cruel is Ooh, member engagement is up. We can sell more ads. We can collect more data to sell to huge data brokers who do God knows what with people's private information. That's the business model of Twitter and Facebook and all these others.”

The idea of an online forum that builds community instead of dividing it is attracting national attention. The Washington Post recently reported, “At a time when Americans are increasingly disenchanted with social media, researchers are studying Front Porch Forum to try to understand what makes for a kinder, gentler online community — and what Big Tech could learn from it.”

The best indication of FPF’s influence is the way that it builds civic engagement. According to a new study by the nonprofit New_ Public, 61 percent of FPF users reported that they had attended a local event or public meeting as a result of something they read on the forum, over half reported that they had discussed issues with a neighbor and one fifth of users said they had volunteered locally in response to a posting on FPF.

FPF, which is headquartered in Burlington, employs 30 people, including many content moderators. Wood-Lewis said that a “critical part of our model is that each member-submitted posting is reviewed by our professional staff before publication (which) is absolutely not how any other social media works.”

FPF enforces a strict set of rules in its online public square, including no personal attacks. “We're not going to let people basically weaponize Front Porch Forum to do harm to our democracy, to our public health, things like that,” he said.

Elon Musk, who owns X, and Facebook owner Mark Zuckerberg insist that the unfettered exchange of views on their platforms is just free speech. Wood-Lewis begs to differ.

“I do not think the folks you mentioned have any real interest in protecting free speech. They have an interest in amassing power and money.”

Front Porch Forum “has felt better and better as the divisiveness in our national scene has gotten worse, and as the isolation brought on by the pandemic and social media and smartphones and so many different things in modern life has gotten worse,” said Wood-Lewis.

Despite requests to expand to other states, Wood-Lewis insisted that FPF will stay local. The online forum proved its value by connecting people impacted by flooding in Vermont in 2011, 2023 and 2024 with help and resources.

“As long as Vermont communities are struggling in significant ways, Front Porch Forum wants to be there as an ally and a partner.”

The war between Israel and Hamas is now grinding into its second year. The war began on October 7, 2023, when Hamas fighters launched a surprise attack on Israel, killing 1,200 Israelis and taking civilian hostages. In retaliation, Israel launched a devastating bombardment and blockade of the Gaza Strip.

The toll of the war is staggering. In the past year, some 42,000 people in Gaza have been killed and nearly 100,000 injured, according to the Gaza health ministry, and about 8,700 Israelis have been injured, according to the Israeli foreign ministry.

Gaza is now experiencing an unprecedented humanitarian crisis. The health care system has collapsed and a “full-blown famine” is occurring in parts of Gaza, according to Cindy McCain, head of the United Nations World Food Program.

Now Israel’s war in Gaza is threatening to spiral into a regional conflict. In recent weeks, Israel assassinated the leader of Hezbollah, the Iran-backed Lebanese political party and militia, launched a ground invasion of Lebanon and attacked Syria and Yemen. Iran retaliated by firing missiles at Israel, many of which were intercepted by Israeli and U.S. military forces.

The war in Gaza has led to the biggest displacement in the region since the creation of Israel in 1948. That event is known by Palestinians as the Nakba, or catastrophe, when there was a mass expulsion of 750,000 Palestinians by Israeli forces.

The current war in Gaza is now the deadliest and most destructive of the five wars fought between Israel and Hamas since Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip in 2007.

That’s right, five wars in 16 years.

What is the deeper story behind the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? When did the Occupied Territories become occupied? What is Hamas? What is Zionism? Who are the Jewish settlers? How did the violence begin, and how does it end?

For answers to these and other questions, we turned to two experts at Dartmouth College, one Egyptian, the other American Israeli, who teach a course together on “The Politics of Israel and Palestine.” Ezzedine Fishere is a senior lecturer in the Middle Eastern Studies program and a former Egyptian diplomat. Bernard Avishai is a Visiting Professor of Government at Dartmouth and a journalist. He lives half the year in Israel. Shortly after I spoke to them last year, Fishere and Avishai were featured on CBS 60 Minutes, NPR, PBS and other media outlets.

As the world marks the first anniversary of the war in Gaza, we are rebroadcasting the 2023 discussion with Fishere and Avishai about the roots of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

“I'm deeply concerned that Israel's actions may create a larger conflagration,” Avishai said last year. “The radical zealot minorities in each people are like tails wagging the dog… People committing atrocities have kept the moderate center of each people away from each other.”

Fishere said that he wavers between being a realist who sees no end to the conflict and a dreamer who believes that a peaceful solution is within reach. “Bring the parties together around a political solution that number one, gives Israel security so that this doesn't happen again. Number two, gives Palestinians hope so that they have something positive to look to… a Palestinian state that garners support, that becomes a beacon of hope for those people, that allows them equality and dignity.”

In the last week, Israel bombed Beirut, assassinated the leader of Hezbollah, and launched a ground invasion of Lebanon. Israel claimed that its attacks were a response to rockets being launched by Hezbollah into northern Israel. The invasion of Lebanon marks an escalation of Israel’s year-long war in Gaza that has claimed the lives of more than 40,000 Palestinians. In the past few days, Iran fired missiles at Israel in retaliation for the attacks on Hezbollah, and there are now fears that these conflicts will spiral into a regional war.

For Tarek El-Ariss, the scenes of devastation in Beirut and civilians fleeing fighting are eerily familiar. El-Ariss grew up in Lebanon and survived its 15-year long civil war that raged from 1975 to 1990. He is now James Wright Professor and chair of Middle Eastern Studies at Dartmouth College.

Prof. El-Ariss has been deeply engaged in facilitating dialogue in the Dartmouth community around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict during the past year. This campus-wide conversation was featured on CBS’ 60 Minutes, in the New Yorker, and other national media. But these peacemaking efforts fractured on May 1, when Dartmouth’s president called in police to break up a small student encampment protesting Israel’s war in Gaza. This resulted in the arrest of 89 students, faculty and community members, some violently.

“I don't think police has any room on campuses,” said El-Ariss, who said that members of his class went out to support the protesters. “I think campuses are places of intellectual engagement and dialog. This is what I do and this is what I focus on.”

Prof. Tarek El-Ariss has a new book, “Water on Fire: A Memoir of War.” He writes that he had “to learn to cohabit with war,” but that the experience continues to live inside him like a bullet buried in his body.

“The war is in us. It manifests itself in different shapes and forms and pain,” said El-Ariss. “Sometimes the bullet burns you, and sometimes you forget about that pain, and then it comes back. But you're always reminded of that which you have experienced, and you take this experience with you wherever you go, both with its bad parts, like the pain and the anxieties, but also in the survival mechanisms that you develop in order to survive this experience.”

El-Ariss said that to find a solution to the conflict in Israel, Palestine, and Lebanon, “You need to begin to acknowledge the humanity of the other and not think that I can eliminate the other so that I can preserve myself.” Attempting to wipe out a perceived adversary has “led to more instability and to more long term danger for those who are applying this model.”

“It's been 75 years at least, and that model is not working.”

El-Ariss said that as he views the spiraling Middle East conflict, “the despair and the hope coexist. There is the pain and the possibility of overcoming the pain. And these two things I have to hold on to, both at the same time.”

In 2017, Timothy Snyder wrote a short book, “On Tyranny: 20 Lessons from the Twentieth Century.” It was a cautionary tale drawn from Snyder’s studies of totalitarian regimes. He mused about how lessons from foreign regimes like Hungary, Russia, and Eastern Europe applied to the U.S. The lessons were warning signs that signaled when a country was veering toward totalitarianism. “On Tyranny” was the New York Times bestelling nonfiction book of 2017 and stayed on bestseller lists for years.

Timothy Snyder is the Richard C. Levin Professor of History and Global Affairs at Yale University and a permanent fellow at the Institute for Human Sciences in Vienna. The Guardian wrote, “In the years since the 2016 U.S. presidential election there has been no more significant critic of the advance of Trump’s form of nihilism than Timothy Snyder.” This year, he has testified before Congress about foreign influence in the U.S. and has campaigned tirelessly in support of Ukraine in its war against Russia.

Snyder has a new book, “On Freedom,” in which he reflects on what it means to be truly free. He talks about the difference between “freedom from” – or negative freedom – and “freedom to,” which he says is what a free society must embrace.

Snyder said that “freedom from” leads to “a clash of all against all. Because if freedom is just me against other stuff and I never have to ask who I am or what I want, then eventually I start to see you as a barrier.”

Sen. J.D. Vance is an example of someone who espouses negative freedom. “His view is that government can't do anything and therefore it won't do anything and therefore my oligarch friends get to run everything. And the only task that I have as a politician is a kind of performer who makes up stories that get people angry at one another and fight one another. Negative freedom leads …to a moral vacuum. It leads to political helplessness, and eventually it leads to social self-destruction.”

By contrast, “freedom to” is “not just a matter of … women not being oppressed, it's also a matter of their having health care so they can be free.”

“There's a positive feedback loop between doing things together and being more free as individuals.”

Is the U.S. on a glide path to fascism?

“Not a glide path, because I think history is made up of the structures and the trends but it's also made up of the funny little bumps that nobody expected,” Snyder replied. “I think it's fair to say that we are at a moment where things can go either way, and I think it's quite clearly defined now, precisely because the way Kamala Harris is talking about freedom. She's very much in a future orientation.”

By congrast, Donald Trump “is a guy who, facing prison and thinking about nothing except himself, needs to die in bed and that bed has to be in the White House and the rest of us be damned,” said Snyder. “He's also a person who's filled with grievance about a story that he made up himself. The internet is full now of people who use AI to generate fake images and then get mad at the fake images.”

“This is not a time to be unaware of choices or to be cynical about voting or to imagine that history or something is going to take care of us. Only we are going to take care of this for us.”

Snyder writes that “being joyous is the first step to freedom.”

“Freedom should make us happy because freedom is about caring about the little things that people care about and about being able to put those things together in our own unique ways and maybe to bring them to life, whether that's a family or whether that's a hobby or whether it's a profession or whether it's a sport or whether it's a getaway,” said Snyder.

“Freedom is the condition in which we're actually able to bring other values together. So it's inherently a happy thing.”

What do Nazis, fascists, incels, skinheads, misogynists, insurrectionists and Proud Boys all have in common? Many of them confide in reporter Elle Reeve.

It was around 2015 and Reeve was reporting for Vice News about the rise of the “alt right,” a term coined by its leader, Richard Spencer. She spent time on internet message boards like 4chan and 8chan where far right activists communicated, trolled liberals, and began to coalesce as a movement. These were often ordinary people who increasingly embraced conspiracy theories and violence.

This was during the presidency of Barack Obama, when many people were imagining that the U.S. was in the glow of a “post-racial” era. Reeve knew better. 

“Racism wasn't dying off with an older generation,” she told the Vermont Conversation. “There was a strong beating heart right there on the internet.”

In 2017, Reeve was there when the alt right burst out of obscure Internet chat rooms and into public consciousness in a violent attack in Charlottesville, Virginia. Her documentary account, “Charlottesville: Race and Terror,” earned her and Vice News Tonight a Peabody Award, four Emmys and a George Polk Award.

In 2019, Reeve became a correspondent for CNN, where she works today. She was at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 reporting on the attack on Congress by Trump supporters, many of whom she knew well.

Why do they talk to her? “They want to tell their story, they want to confess, they want to unburden themselves,” she said.

Reeve has a new book, “Black Pill: How I Witnessed the Darkest Corners of the Internet Come to Life, Poison Society, and Capture American Politics.” The title refers to how far right activists speak of taking the “black pill” of nihilism to justify their cruelty and violence. “It's this dark nihilism that the world is doomed. There's nothing you can do to change it, and you at best, can hope for it to collapse.”



Reeve traces how far-right rhetoric has moved from the fringes to the mainstream, with Donald Trump and J.D. Vance channeling extremist ideas and language.

Vance has denounced the “woke ideology” of “white women who are miserable about their own lives, enforcing codes about racial justice, gay rights on other people to make other people miserable, to account for how miserable they are in their own lives,” Reeve explained.

Vance’s use of the term “childless cat ladies” is another far right meme. “I've read that on 4chan six or seven years ago,” said Reeve. “It has trickled upward.”

Another far right notion that is now embraced by mainstream Republicans is that diversity is bad. “They think that racial and ethnic and gender diversity makes us weaker. It makes us fools. This is just something that they ridiculed all the time.”

Reeve explained the far right context of Trump’s attacks on people of color. “If a white person commits a crime in their world, it's because they're a bad guy. But if a Black person commits a crime in their world, it's because they're Black.”

Reeve warned that many people “are vulnerable to those ideas. I just interviewed a ton of people at a Trump boat parade. They were so nice to me, and then they started talking to me about how it's not right to eat people's cats, and these people do animal sacrifice, and they're dirty and they bring disease.”

“It's not all crazy people who believe this stuff. It's regular people and your neighbors," said Reeve. “You have an obligation to push back against that, whether or not they'll listen to you."

Reeve said about the future, “There has been an escalating radicalization among the Republican elite and a softening among the voters… People speak freely about civil war. That is dangerous.”

“I don't like it but I don't know where that balance ends up after the election. You can't do something like Jan. 6 without a feeling that there's an army behind you of supporters who will back you up.”