Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma

Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma

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Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma episodes

  • Ep 79: Kim Griffith, angelic interpreter: Energy flows where attention goes
    What if the answers you keep searching for are already inside you? In this episode of Swishing Mindsets, Anuradha Varma speaks with Kim Griffith, an American author and angel communicator who interprets for Deborah, a collective of 76 angels named after the biblical prophetess, judge and warrior.

    Kim shares how a blunt conversation with her husband, who told her their marriage worked for him only 30% of the time, set her on a path away from complaint and cynicism and towards a life she now calls a joy. She explains why Deborah refuses to play fortune teller, why every choice (and "mistake") has a purpose, and how to tell a genuine sign from wishful thinking.

    There are practical tools too: quieting the monkey mind she calls "Karen", the I Am meditation, and the simple instruction to just ask. The conversation closes with a channelled message from Deborah and a live, unscripted experiment in which Anu tries to feel "the love of heaven" herself. Listeners are invited to try it along with her.

    Follow Kim: Website | Book your angel conversation 

    Timestamps
    00:43 What an angel communicator, or interpreter, does
    02:22 Why "Deborah": the prophetess, judge and warrior of Judges 4–5
    05:06 Feeling their energy, the "knock on the back of the head", and handing over a bad day
    06:15 A collective of 76, and whether they are guardian angels
    07:44 Divine spirit, energy, and telling your own inner voice apart from Deborah's
    09:35 What people come to Kim for, and why an open mind matters
    11:17 The leader who learned she isn't responsible for her team's feelings
    13:09 How this differs from life coaching
    14:53 Kim's story: faith, doubt, and a marriage at 30%
    18:16 Deciding to stop complaining, from Bob Proctor to Esther Hicks
    20:10 "We are not a fortune teller": why the power stays with you
    22:47 Energy flows where attention goes
    25:34 The answer is already inside you, and there are no mistakes
    27:49 Learning to trust your intuition
    29:21 Quieting "Karen", the monkey mind, and the I Am meditation
    33:30 Feathers, numbers and 11:11: how to read signs
    37:02 When you're troubled, where to start: just ask
    39:35 How to ask: there is no wrong way
    40:32 "Why does this keep happening to me?"
    43:21 Generalisations, gratitude, and the coach who asked, "Do your legs work?"
    46:26 Angel communicator vs medium, and feeling her late father's presence
    48:50 Deborah speaks: a channelled message
    54:33 A live experiment: Anu tries connecting with Deborah

    For more, email [email protected] 
    Disclaimer: Views are personal. Listener discretion is advised.
     

    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    1 hr 4 min
  • Ep 78: From Led Zeppelin Tribute Bands to Shamanic Healing: Clementine Moss, Zepperella
    Clementine Moss, founder and drummer of Zepperella, an all-female Led Zeppelin tribute band formed in 2005, is also a solo musician, author, and spiritual counsellor trained in depth hypnosis, applied shamanism, and energy medicine. 

    Clementine traces her path from a frustrated 27-year-old writer and bartender in New York City who picked up drumsticks on a whim, to becoming a devoted student of John Bonham's feel and timing, to founding Zepperella with guitarist Gretchen Menn.

    She reflects candidly on life on the road — the "sex, drugs, rock and roll" of touring in a van in her twenties versus the more disciplined, sober professionalism of touring today — and on what it meant, as a woman in heavy rock, to claim her own power and be heard.

    The conversation moves into her parallel spiritual path: an early Vipassana retreat, years of shamanic study across cultures, and her current work in depth hypnosis — a modality blending Western psychology, Buddhist philosophy, and shamanic practice that she credits with quieting her own harsh inner critic. Listen in!Timestamps
    • 00:00 – Introduction: Clementine Moss, drummer, author, spiritual counselor
    • 00:49 – Taking up drums at 27 — leaving writing behind for a creative, collaborative outlet
    • 02:32 – Why drums specifically clicked, and her childhood connection to rhythm
    • 04:01 – The spiritual and communal dimension of drumming
    • 05:04 – Losing herself in the "flow state" behind the kit
    • 07:09 – Drums as a "beauty accessory" — letting go of self-judgment on stage
    • 08:02 – "If you have a problem, play the drums" — drumming as a clarity tool
    • 09:29 – Creativity surfacing during meditation and a 10-day silent retreat
    • 11:25 – Why Led Zeppelin — John Bonham's feel, timing, and emotional influence
    • 14:52 – How Zepperella came together, and where the name came from
    • 16:39 – Life in a band: van tours, 320 shows a year, and the myth vs. reality of rock life
    • 19:48 – Coming into her own power as a woman in heavy rock
    • 22:25 – Family support and touring life then vs. now
    • 24:07 – Pre-show rituals and superstitions around her drum kit
    • 25:29 – Her spiritual journey: early Vipassana experience and ongoing practice
    • 28:07 – Studying cross-cultural shamanic traditions and universal belief systems
    • 33:40 – Shamanic cosmology: upper, middle, and lower worlds
    • 36:09 – Depth hypnosis explained — blending psychology, Buddhism, and shamanism
    • 38:19 – How depth hypnosis helped quiet her own critical inner voice
    • 40:43 – The "Path of Service" course — recognizing self-depletion in caregiving
    • 43:26 – How she's evolved: trading ambition for enthusiasm
    • 45:54 – Where to find her music — new solo album and Zepperella's fifth album
    For more, email [email protected]
    Disclaimer: Views are personal. Listener discretion is advised.

    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    47 min
  • Ep 77: Cathy Nesbitt: The Worm Advocate Who Turned Garbage Into Gold
    Listen in to a conversation on worms, waste, and wellbeing with Cathy Nesbitt, a worm advocate, environmental innovator, sprout grower, and laughter yoga teacher from just north of Toronto, Canada. Cathy traces her unlikely path into vermicomposting — from reluctantly worm-sitting for a friend in 1993, to a "light bulb" moment reading that a pound of worms can convert a ton of organic waste a year. 

    She explains how indoor composting with worms (especially red wigglers) works, why it beats other composting methods for apartment dwellers, and busts myths around smell, rats, and "ew, worms in the house." The conversation moves through her school workshops reaching over 100,000 students, a moving trip to Guatemala helping women turn coffee-plantation and dump-site waste into livelihoods, her 23-year daily sprouting habit (and why raw sprouts pack more digestive enzymes than cooked food), and finally her pivot toward laughter yoga.

    Timestamps
    • 00:00 – Introduction: Kathleen Nesbitt, worm advocate from Canada
    • 00:37 – Why worms? Toronto's 2002 landfill crisis and garbage exports to the US
    • 03:01 – Origin story: reluctantly worm-sitting for a friend in 1993
    • 07:30 – The "light bulb" moment: a pound of worms, a ton of waste
    • 09:03 – Quitting her job to take a business-plan course and start a worm business
    • 10:13 – 2002 garbage strike and the road trip that launched her in the press
    • 12:20 – Tabling at events — and the awkward reactions from parents and kids
    • 13:37 – Pivoting to school workshops (100,000+ students over 23 years)
    • 15:56 – The teacher-friend's classroom worm bin story
    • 18:51 – Worms' role in nature, reproduction, and soil immunity
    • 21:02 – Do worms have personalities? Observing worm behavior
    • 23:14 – Worm biology: five hearts, hermaphrodites, mating and cocoons
    • 24:15 – Filming worms up close — the poop video kids love
    • 26:40 – Why worms over other composting methods; the rats-in-the-co-op story
    • 28:38 – How many worms you actually need (it's about lifestyle, not headcount)
    • 31:01 – Types of composting worms: red wiggler, European/African night crawler, perionyx
    • 32:13 – Worm jewelry, coconut coir from India, and peat moss vs. coir
    • 36:57 – The Guatemala "worm trip" story — from a tweet to a fundraiser
    • 41:06 – Inside Guatemala: coffee-waste composting and women's micro-businesses
    • 44:39 – Sprouting: 23 years of daily mung beans and the enzyme story
    • 50:01 – How laughter yoga entered her life, one day after nearly quitting
    • 52:30 – What is laughter yoga? Dr. Madan Kataria's mission for world peace
    • 54:01 – How laughter helped her stop taking rejection personally
    • 55:44 – Closing message: her free Tuesday laughter club and a hopeful note
    For more, email [email protected]
    Disclaimer: Views are personal. Listener discretion is advised.

    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    59 min
  • Ep 76: Nancy Orlen Weber: Inside the mind of a psychic detective
    When Nancy Orlen Weber was 10 years old, she stood outside her school waiting for a limo to take her to the UN. Except that she got the date wrong – she was 30 years too early. “I was in a trance,” recalls the "Psychic Detective", who has spent over 40 years working alongside American law enforcement. A former registered nurse turned medical intuitive, animal communicator, and author, she has helped crack cold cases, missing persons investigations, including one of New Jersey's most notorious serial killer cases. 

    In this episode of Swishing Mindsets, the author of The Life of a Psychic Detective, and Soul Detective: How to Solve the Inner Mystery of You takes us behind her intuitive process and her deeply personal journey that shaped her ability to trust what "just comes to her." She opens up about talking to victims and animals on the other side, why she believes we're all "wireless", and shares a simple exercise anyone can try to find a lost object. Listen in!

    Follow Nancy: LinkedIn | Instagram | Website

    Timestamps
    00:00 Introduction — Meet Nancy Orlen Weber, the "Psychic Detective"
    05:47 How it started: nursing, intuition, and becoming a medical intuitive
    11:25 Early cases — the karate instructor, the buried dogs, and the shotgun warning
    16:40 The serial killer case — pieces, patterns, and an overlooked prosecutor
    27:19 Childhood shyness and shock at her own abilities
    28:51 Overcoming abuse and reclaiming personal power
    31:03 Gratitude, perspective, and the mindset that keeps her grounded
    32:19 Views on death, the other side, and her lifelong "teacher"
    34:00 Talking to animals and connecting with loved ones who've passed
    36:41 Synchronicity — "there are no real coincidences"
    37:06 How psychics experience time differently
    42:00 Learning to control the gift — belly breathing and retraining the mind
    44:38 A simple exercise to help you find lost objects using intuition
    51:06 Where to find Nancy's courses, workshops, and website

    To get in touch, email [email protected]
    Disclaimer: Views are personal. Listener discretion is advised.


    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    54 min
  • Ep 75: Jason Lange, embodiment coach: Why all men need a men’s group
    In this episode, Jason Lange — a US-based men's embodiment coach, group facilitator, and evolutionary guide — talks about why so many men live "from the neck up," disconnected from their bodies and emotions.

    Sharing his own breakthrough moment in a men's group that changed the course of his life and work, Jason unpacks the cultural conditioning behind the "man box" that teaches young boys that vulnerability is weakness, and how this shows up later as rumination, burnout, strained relationships, and even health crises. He explains how a men's group actually looks like in practice, why loneliness persists even among men with friends, the "provider trap", and his couples' programme designed to help partners reconnect. Listen in!

    Follow Jason: LinkedIn | Instagram | Website | Book a Call 

    Timestamps:
    00:25 – What is an "evolutionary guide" and "embodiment coaching"?
    03:37 – The "man box": cultural conditioning and the rules of masculinity
    04:22 – Research on what marks "boy to man" vs. "girl to woman"
    06:34 – Schooling, boys' energy, and the "ADHD" mislabeling
    08:14 – Adolescence, locker-room culture, and hiding vulnerability
    08:53 – Workplace culture and the cost of overwork on men's health
    09:42 – "Emotional robot": how disembodiment shows up in relationships
    10:21 – Reaching outward (alcohol, porn, overwork) to regulate inner states
    11:44 – Cross-cultural parallel: changing norms in India around boys/emotions
    12:43 – What disembodiment actually feels/looks like
    13:38 – Rumination, anxiety, and the toll of living "in the head"
    14:43 – Emotions as physical sensations; the cost of not feeling
    24:34 – Jason's personal story: therapy, men's group, and his breakthrough
    26:04 – Working with men on past trauma and physical/emotional abuse
    28:36 – Healthy sexuality, shame, and childhood conditioning
    29:09 – The "snuffed candle" — boys' curiosity shut down young
    30:03 – Power of group work: normalization and accelerated healing
    31:44 – How a men's group actually works (structure, format)
    32:14 – Why men join: pain, loneliness, and "triangulated" friendships
    33:58 – Story: feeling lonely even surrounded by friends
    34:08 – Teaching men to share what's "under the surface"
    36:15 – Suicide statistics and the cost of emotional suppression
    36:33 – Group accountability — calling out avoidance with compassion
    41:50 – The circle format and its power (vs. side-by-side bonding)
    43:19 – Men's groups aren't just heavy — celebrating wins too
    43:47 – Couples work and "12 Epic Dates" program
    45:34 – The "provider trap" and neglecting the marriage
    46:31 – Empty-nest wake-up calls: "I haven't loved you for 10 years"
    47:05 – What 12 Epic Dates offers couples
    47:53 – Toolkit for stopping rumination: getting into the body
    49:45 – Father energy, the "facing out" research, and resilience
    50:53 – Online vs. in-person groups

    To get in touch, email [email protected]
    Disclaimer: Views are personal. Listener discretion is advised.


    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    52 min
  • Ep 74: Upasana Sarraju, author: The strange science of Ig Nobel Prizes
    In this episode, Upasana Sarraju, author of The Ig Nobel Prizes and The Science That Refuses to Behave (Penguin Random House India) talks about research that "makes you laugh, then makes you think". From zebra-striped cows (which reduced insect bites) to the science of crumpled bedsheets, a galloping horse encoded into bacterial DNA, Upasana takes us through the strangest, funniest, and most unexpectedly profound corners of science. 

    She talks about her five-year correspondence with Ig Nobel Prize founder Marc Abrahams, the Indian scientists who've won the prize (including Dr. Chittaranjan Andrade, a psychiatrist who studies nose-picking and mountaineers in his spare time), and why the silliest-sounding questions often lead to the most meaningful discoveries.

    Follow Upasana: LinkedIn | Instagram | Website

    Timestamps:
    00:58 – What prompted the book; discovering the Ig Nobel Prizes
    02:55 – Mark Abrahams: five years of interviews, the founding of the Ig Nobel Prize/Improbable Research podcast
    05:22 – The book cover: the zebra-striped cow study (Ig Nobel 2025) and insect-deterring stripes
    08:01 – Tangent: do mosquitoes prefer certain blood types/sweat?
    08:39 – Other Ig Nobel studies on the cover (banana peel, pizza slice)
    09:02 – Why woodpeckers don't get headaches
    11:32 – What the Ig Nobel limelight does for scientists' careers
    12:28 – Encoding a galloping-horse movie into E. coli DNA using CRISPR
    21:25 – Riffing on "movie piracy via bacteria"
    23:12 – On book structure: each chapter as its own potential book
    24:33 – Chittaranjan Andrade: mountaineering, magic, music, NIMHANS
    33:38 – L. Mahadevan and the physics of folds, wrinkles, and crumpled bedsheets
    35:49 – Knots, tangled earbuds, and the physics of hair
    37:34 – Reflecting on minds like Mahadevan's
    38:21 – "On a Lazy Sunday Morning" chapter — everyday science (soggy cereal, coffee spills, banana peels)
    39:50 – What didn't make it into the book — cut personal stories (e.g., Dr. Manjula Reddy)
    43:03 – Material held back for a future book (cats/animals)
    43:29 – The footnotes — Easter eggs and tangents
    45:00 – Household dust, shed skin, and dust mites living in our eyebrows
    47:27 – Closing thoughts, future plans 

    To get in touch, email [email protected]
    Disclaimer: Views are personal. Listener discretion is advised.

    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    50 min
  • Ep 73: Regina Linke, The Oxherd Boy: Big ideas for little kids
    “Where does my reflection go when I walk away from the mirror?” This question from her toddler put Regina Linke, a Taiwanese American author and illustrator, on the journey of creating her children’s book The Oxherd Boy which started as a webcomic on Instagram. It was followed up by Big Enough and now Little Helper, which combine the East Asian philosophy of Taoism, Buddhism, and Confucianism with Chinese brush painting.

    She talks about putting down big messages for little kids in simple language, reconnecting with her Taiwanese roots, and how her spiritual practice has helped her find resilience and calm as she goes through the journey of bringing her adoptive daughter home from Taiwan. Listen in! 

    Follow Regina on: Instagram | Website | The Oxherd Boy

    Timestamps:
    01:21 Moving to Taiwan as an adult and discovering her roots
    06:16 Creating opportunities for conversations with kids through The Oxherd Boy
    11:30 Explaining Confucianism, Tao and Buddhism
    17:23 How moving from corporate America to discovering herself in Taiwan
    20:31 How spirituality has helped her deal with her adoption journey
    24:30 Learning the ancient art of gongbi painting
    32:48 On The Little Helper book
    36:45 What she enjoyed working on
    41:15 Who the book is for

    Follow Anuradha on LinkedIn | Twitter | InstagramEmail: [email protected]

    Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are personal. Listener discretion is advised. 


    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    44 min
  • Ep 72: Botox, Me Too & migration: Guruprasad Kaginele & Narayan Shankaran on 'Kaayaa'
    “Are all beautiful people happy? Are all happy people beautiful?” is something that Guruprasad Kaginele addresses in his book Kaaya, a satirical comment on beauty and identity through the story of a US plastic surgeon caught in the Me Too movement, inspired by a real life incident. It has been translated from Kannada to English by Narayan Shankaran. 

    Here, they both discuss getting the cultural beats right during the process of translation, such as deciding on the phrase “boob job”. Guruprasad, a doctor based in the US for the last three decades, confesses to Kannada still being his language of “emoting”, while English remains of transactional value, and often erupting in “Aiyyo” to the bafflement of his American colleagues. They also touch upon issues of migration and enhancement culture, with walk-in botox clinics and lunch-hour collagen injections.

    Guruprasad is a prominent voice in contemporary Kannada literature. His novel Hijab received the 2017 Karnataka Sahitya Academy Award. Narayan Shankaran, a management professional, who enjoys writing and translating between Kannada and English, has earlier also translated a collection of short stories by Guruprasad, published as The Preferred Pronoun and Other Stories.

    Listen in!

    Related episode: Ep 39: Chandan Pandey & Sayari Debnath: Stories of desolation & translation

    Timestamps
    01:40 How the collaboration happened
    03:53 Writing Kaayaa, his process
    06:14 Narayan on the book
    10:33 Guru on themes of sexuality in Kannada literature
    13:55 Thinking and writing in Kannada
    18:24 Reacting with an “Aiyyo” instinctively in the US
    20:06 Narayan’s process of translation; reading out the excerpt
    28:06 Translating “boob job” from Kannada
    30:17 Inspiration for the story of Kaaya; the God complex of a plastic surgeon
    34:42 Commenting on the enhancement culture
    36:18 Guru on creating his women characters; cosmetic demands on beauty
    40:00 The migrant experience
    44:50 Narayan on the characters in Kaayaa

    Follow Anuradha on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram
    Email: [email protected]

    Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are personal. Listener discretion is advised.


    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    48 min
  • Ep 71: Namratha Stanley: From an abusive marriage to a wine brand in France
    Namratha Stanley, the debut author of Vineyard Melody, moved to France in 2017 after an abusive marriage in India, to pursue a Wine MBA in Bordeaux. She now runs her wine brand Solicantus—sold in five countries, including India. 

    A single mom, she talks about the struggle to escape her abusive marriage as “being stuck in a web”, regaining confidence, taking things one step at a time to finally set up her wine brand and reunite with her daughter in France. Wine is a culture, says the entrepreneur, who believes in meeting life with an open spirit.

    She lets us in on the charm of living in France, the French penchant for prioritising intellectual and artistic enjoyment and, yes, their annoying but charming habit of complaining!

    Listen in!  

    Follow Namratha on: LinkedIn | Instagram | Website
    Buy her book: Amazon

    Timestamps
    01:30 Going to France on a chance, to escape her marriage
    05:20 What made her finally leave her marriage
    10:30 Women are redefining womanhood
    11:23 Identifying as the “victim”
    14:10 Life right now, managing her wine brand
    16:25 Her wine offerings
    20:30 Getting the right magical blend for her wine
    22:34 Availability in Mumbai and Bengaluru
    23:45 Wine trends in India
    25:07 One percent of Indians know their wines; growing audience
    26:20 Pairing wine with Indian food
    27:54 Wine as an investment — SWAG (silver, wine, art and gold)
    33:09 Survival instinct led to becoming an entrepreneur
    36:40 Busting French cliches
    40:10 About her book ‘Vineyard Melody’

    Follow Anuradha on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram
    Email: [email protected]

    Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are personal. Listener discretion is advised.


    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    43 min
  • Ep 70: ‘Single Papa’ Aditya Tiwari: Adoption, Down Syndrome, and an Everest dream
    “It’s the child who gives birth to the parent,” says Aditya Tiwari, who adopted his son Avnish, now almost 11, as a single father at the age of 28 in 2016, after a long legal battle. Today, Avnish, who was born with a hole in his heart and has Down Syndrome, has trekked to the Everest Base Camp at the age of seven, and is the youngest National awardee. 

    Here, while Aditya talks about the practicalities of bringing up a special child and meeting developmental milestones with support from experts, the joy of watching his child thrive is unmissable. 

    Listen in as the Indore-based software professional discusses his hopes and dreams for Avnish, and the inherent bias that favours women as parental figures!

    Follow Aditya Tiwari on: LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram

    Related episode: Ep 66: Arun Dohle, Adoptee Rights Council: How he met his mother

    Timestamps:
    02:04 Preparing for the Everest Base Camp
    06:52 Creating support systems for his special child Avnish
    09:35 Likes playing drums, explore nature, etc
    11:30 Importance of spending quality time with a child
    13:50 Meeting milestones and therapies
    18:40 Accepting a Down Syndrome child, don’t look for a miracle
    21:19 Living in the present
    23:06 Guardianship; concerns about securing Avnish’s future
    28:20 Creating support systems as a single parent
    30:20 Questions raised on adoption initially; adoption gives one choice
    32:10 Meeting Avnish as a baby in the orphanage and the legal battle to adopt
    34:56 Single men face a bias as adoptive parents
    37:27 Mindset barrier when it comes to fathers over mothers
    39:19 Avnish’s health challenges
    41:40 Challenges of claiming medical insurance
    45:17 Honing Avnish’s skills with help from experts

    Follow Anuradha on LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram
    Email: [email protected]

    Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed are personal. Listener discretion is advised.


    Want to be a guest on Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma? Send Anuradha Varma a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/1750746513391971e921bbda5
    49 min

About Swishing Mindsets with Anuradha Varma

From the publisher's feed

Listen in to conversations that "swish" or shift your perspective! Journalist and Mindset Coach Anuradha Varma interviews a diverse cast of people who share their expertise and experiences on a range…