Talking Moves

In this episode we talk to Jeanefer Jean-Charles and Lou Cope about money matters.

Money is always an awkward thing to talk about and when what we do is what we love it can feel even harder. But as we navigate our way within a business where we are constantly having to put a price tag on either ourselves – consultancy or advice perhaps – or the artistic work we make, we have to get better at talking about and asking for money.

Jeanefer and Lou talk us through the way they think about themselves, the values they hold and express through their work and art as well as the value they place on themselves. Both share their secrets for pricing up their time - including useful tools and techniques from imaginary assistants to the use of real ones - day rates to annual budgeting. They talk about the benefits of having a portfolio freelance career with financial resilience in mind but also in the loneliness and isolation that comes when working alone or as a temporary guest in an established team.

Together we pondered value in its broader sense: in crediting, having our voices heard and being included. And of course in the drive to do an excellent job as, in a freelance world, we are only ever as good as the last one...

Recording date: Wednesday 17 February 2021

Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production
Presented by Melanie Precious
Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious

In this episode we talk to Seeta Patel and Wayne Parsons about the relationship between organisation - be they venues, companies, agencies - and artists.

Living through a pandemic has highlighted the fragile ecology upon which the performing arts industry is built. The community Freelancers Make Theatre Work, a group of volunteers set up to give freelancers a voice, has published data which says that over a third of the freelance workforce received no support during Covid – making their reliance on the sometimes tenuous relationship between organisation and artist even more important.

Seeta and Wayne talk about how they supported themselves and their own dancers through Covid. They discuss the pivot to digital and conclude that perhaps we are all beginners within the digital world and have much to learn together if we are to continue to inhabit the digital space with integrity.

They muse upon the lessons that have been learnt, by both organisations and artists, throughout the crisis and how we all might learn from these as we build a stronger future. We unpick the value that associate programmes have for the artists who acquire them, the difficulties in maintaining relationships with organisations when personnel move on and how we build more sustainable opportunities for the artistic workforce.

We discuss the terminology ‘artist development’ and what artists really need to develop right now, and Melanie poses the question – what would you do, if you ran an organisation, to support artists like yourselves? The answers are illuminating…

Recording date: Tuesday 26 January 2021

Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production
Presented by Melanie Precious
Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious

In this episode we talk to Zoie Golding and Anthony Missen about the ways in which artists make a difference and the metrics we measure this by.

Inspired by the book, The Art of Relevance, by museum director Nina Simon, Melanie asks her guests why their work matters and to whom. They discuss ‘insiders’ – their loyal curators, artists, audience and participants who ‘get them’. And the 'outsiders' – people who may not know their work is out there and whom they strive to reach. Zoie also reflects on the outsiders who are inside – the ones who are close to us who also struggle to ‘get’ what we do…

We talk about permission and ethics and the trap so many of us fall into of ‘crashing’ into communities uninvited. Anthony and Zoie both reflect upon the numerous times they have needed to throw their lesson plans away and read the room and the permission they had to give themselves to do this. Anthony suggests that by evaluation we simply mean conversation and we discuss how easy this is to enable post-performance.

Finally, we ponder whether metrics of success, so often number driven, have changed at all in response to the crisis we are all living through now.

Recording date: Friday 29 January 2021

Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production
Presented by Melanie Precious
Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious

In this episode we talk to Charlotte Edmonds and Andrew Gardiner about resilience.

The government told us recently that dance was not a viable career, and whilst many would strongly dispute that - we probably all acknowledge it’s a difficult, sometimes even punishing choice. So it felt like a good time to check in with some of our dancing workforce to find out how they keep optimum mental and physical health, their tools of self care and how organisations can do better to nurture those who make our art.   Andrew and Charlotte discuss what resilience means to them, how their own challenges – of anxiety and dyslexia respectively, have helped them develop greater awareness of the triggers and mechanisms for self-care. Charlotte discusses how her internal struggles find a way out through her art – works such as Sink or Swim for the charity MIND and Grit for the Junior Company of Dutch National Ballet. Andrew talks about the increased sense of responsibility he has for his own team of collaborators when working with his newly founded company Society of Strays and how the switch to making his own work as opposed to embodying the work of others has helped find equilibrium.   Both reflect upon the pressures of a dancers rigorous training and the expectations of an ever-demanding industry. Honesty, openness and the ability to sense and respond to triggers are discussed as are the responsibilities we all have to take care of those who work with, for and amongst us.   Recording date: Wednesday 16 December 2020   Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production Presented by Melanie Precious Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious

In this episode we talk to Tamsin Fitzgerald and Gary Clarke about the ‘business of dance’ and the way they have built a team of support around them.
And of course a business is all about the people…..

Gary and Tamsin discuss how it feels to call what they do a business, and what their underlying core values of that business are. We delve into the moment when one became two (or more) and who those first members of their team were. We touch on how they built their wider network of support – with funders and venues. We explored how they nourish both themselves and their teams. And how could we talk about the business of dance without discussing that most famous of questions: To NPO or Not to NPO?   Gary lets us in on some of the ways he views his work and art with the branding of it very much at the forefront. Tamsin talked about the way her company supports artists to grow whilst contributing to the economy of her hometown in Hereford. They both talk about the importance of being based in their localities and their company relationships with local communities.   Together they discuss the vital role dancers play within their support network as well as the ways in which they care for themselves as they lead from the front - especially when faced with the challenges of lockdown and furloughing.   Recording date: Wednesday 16 December 2020   Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production Presented by Melanie Precious Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious

In this episode we talk to Rhiannon Faith and Ben Duke about their experiences of conceiving and creating dance films and we ask them, with the benefit of some experience and hindsight, how they are now approaching the use of technology and the digital experience as they conceive their next work.

We discuss the uncanny similarity between the themes at the core of Rhiannon’s ready-to-tour show Drowntown and the filmed prologue Drowntown Lockdown she ended up making - and she lets us into a trade secret about how to get the best shots using apparatus borrowed from her 4 month old’s nursery! Ben confessed to wondering ‘what am I and what is this thing I do without an audience?’ and admitted feeling reluctant to start making digital dance until the need to orchestrate pressure and deadlines to break the inertia of lockdown propelled him back into creation mode.

Together they discuss whether the digital outputs they created could replace the live experience, whether they were able to reach the kinds of audiences they aim to touch with their live work, the shift as we curate considered audience experiences rather than chase audience numbers and how we all, now, simply feel like beginners.

Recording date: 2 November 2020

Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production
Presented by Melanie Precious
Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious

In this episode we talk to Ingrid Molinos and Tory East about running a youth dance company during a global pandemic. They tell us about the work their companies, Young Amici and Hampshire Youth Dance respectively, would ordinarily do and how this has changed over the course of 2020. We discuss how young people reacted to their cancelled performances and auditions and the ways in which they have adapted, successfully or unsuccessfully, to online dancing… and we delve into the ways they have been able not just to train, but to live up to their intention of being ‘performance companies’ whilst being restricted to a digital output.

Ingrid talks about the ways in which she has tried to rebuild an inclusive environment for her young people and their families online and her summer school which had sold out. Tory reflects on the barrier Zoom put between them. They both reflect upon the race to upskill digitally in order to support their young dancers, the opportunity presented by One Dance UK through their U.Dance digital festival and the ways in which both they and their young people have come to appreciate just how much they can all achieve.

Together they discuss mental health, the vocational journey, leadership and whether these young people will ever want to make another film again!

Recording date: 6 October 2020

Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production
Presented by Melanie Precious
Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious

In this episode we talk to Katie Green and Ivan Blackstock about the ways in which they have been breaking from the conventional and working in exciting new ways… creating new partnerships, new audiences and new platforms for their work. Has their need to challenge the status quo been conscious and deliberate or simply accidental?

Ivan talks about his love and admiration for the music, fashion and technology industries and how these have opened his eyes to a new way of being and working, and Katie talks of the rich source of choreographic stimuli working with museums and heritage has given her. They both reflect on the things that have made them who they are and the challenges they have encountered along the way – not fitting the aesthetic, doors shutting, imposter syndrome and language barriers… but also enthuse about the opportunities they have seized within new worlds which have given them both the ability to keep creating.

Together they discuss the skills needed to create relationships, the care and consideration they give their colleagues and friends, audiences and themselves and the desperate need to adapt to survive. Now more than ever.

Recording date: 25 September 2020

Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production
Presented by Melanie Precious
Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious

In this episode we talk to Sarah Blanc and Mathieu Geffré about the way they approached the task, back in April, of pivoting their touring plans online.

They discuss their immediate feelings of desperation and the subsequent "battle to find a new way and new solutions" within new conditions. They talk about the nuts and bolts of involving a community cast during lockdown: building trust and connections through Whatsapp and Zoom. We discuss the choice of title for Mathieu’s lockdown film: The Ceremony, and Sarah’s approach to working remotely with an intergenerational cast using poetry. And we speak of ever-present frustrations of technology, intellectual rights and the challenges of keeping communities comfortable within a digital world.

Sarah and Mathieu bring the conversation to a close as they consider how they now place value on their work and the need they still have to "feel like we are surviving as artists".

Prior to listening to the podcast you may enjoy watching Sarah and Mathieu’s Up My Street Online films – a Greenwich Dance project conceived (pre-Covid) to be a cabaret tour to community centres.

Recording date: 4 August 2020

Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production
Presented by Melanie Precious
Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious

In this episode we talk to Maria Ghoumrassi and Wendy Steatham about the ways in which they have adapted their teaching to accommodate the need to be online.

They discuss their initial fears and approaches, the ways in which they have explored the functionality and played with the format, how they structure their classes: stripping back to fundamental technique or playing with open ended stimuli and the ways in which they have prioritised community and wellbeing. They drill down into some of the specifics such as camera off or on, break out rooms, playing with those ‘rectangles’, tackling the ‘delay’ as they count their dancers in and most importantly… how to deal with the rogue pet dog!

Together, Maria and Wendy muse thoughtfully about how this period may have changed us forever and what the dance class of tomorrow might look like.

Talking Moves is a Greenwich Dance production
Presented by Melanie Precious
Production by Carmel Smith, Lucy White and Melanie Precious