Kerry Knudsen is a Lichen Biologist who originated outside of academia and worked in construction until becoming fascinated by the natural world and immersing himself in desert lichens.In this episode we talk about the modern human approach to the living world, why the study of natural sciences is becoming increasingly popular among people outside of academia, the biosphere as a living machine, self-education using the internet, and more.  

A lichen is the symbiosis between a fungus and algae or cyanobacteria, many of which can go dormant for extremely long periods of time and tolerate harsh winds, drying out, being blasted with UV radiation, and slowly cooked on the rocks that they grow on. Some of them can live for thousands of years.

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