Talking Talmud

More cases of possible kiddushin. For example, betrothal with a mat of myrtle branches - to no response by the woman who takes the mat. Is that silence a matter of acquiescence or rejection? How would she knows the details of that kind of silence? Also, what about a designated sin-offering on the woman's behalf post childbirth? What if she dies in childbirth? Plus, what about a loan where the debtor dies - and whether the creditor can always collect the loan.

How much is a perutah actually worth? How do we define its value, given fluctuating currencies and given the different value of items in various places. Also, what happens when the value diminishes over time? Plus, how can some cases of actual effective kiddushin be valued at less than a perutah (Shmuel's opinion vs. that of R. Hisda). Plus, R. Hiya's wife's efforts to leave him.

The Gemara does a deep dive on Beit Shammai’s opinion that for Kiddushin to take place with money it must be at a value of at least a dinar. Several opinions are offered to help understand Beit Shammai’s reasoning.

Investigating the precise moment that sexual intercourse functions as betrothal. With practical implications. Also, a story of terumah and chuppah. [Who's Who: Yochanan Ben Bag Bag] Plus, the modesty of clear language and addressing difficult (sexual) topics directly.

More interesting cases - to illustrate the halakhah. How far do they go toward kiddushin? (Spoiler: Not kiddushin). Plus, kiddushin with a shtar/document. Note - it's not worth even a perutah, nor is it a bill of sale, in that it comes from the woman's husband-to-be, and not her father (or herself, once she's an adult). Note the requirement for consent. Also, does the document need to be written for this woman specifically, like divorce, or not so, like betrothal via money?

Betrothal with money has to be with something that has a clearly defined value. With a parallel to pidyon haben - redemption which also needs to be of a certain value. Also, what happens if the woman takes the money a man offers her for kiddushin and she destroys the money? Is that rejection of kiddushin, or is it too late? Or does she owe him the funds?

[NOTE: If the second part of today's daf sounds familiar from yesterday's daf, you are not wrong. It was a good we will share (maybe) at the siyum for Kiddushin. In the meantime, check Daf 7 soon for a renewed second half.]

A series of cases of possibly effective kiddushin, and the effect of the formal act of acquisition (kinyan). What does it mean that marriage is effected through an act of acquisition (as one buys property). Also, what happens if the man offers to betroth the woman in parts, with half of the money equivalent to a perutah? Half of this coin for half of you, and vice versa. Does it count for kiddushin? A good question - especially since it doesn't make any sense.

NOTE: If you listened to this before and it had a different second half, see Daf 8, and give the new second half here on 7 a try.

Other formulations that may or may not work for betrothal. What if the couple is talking about betrothal? Is that enough to betroth her? Also, the case of one who wants to betroth a woman with the money he's already lent her. Or the benefit of that loan.

Can each of these three ways of betrothal imply the others? Or can any two imply the third? Or do we need all three of them stated explicitly? Also, what about chuppah? Shouldn't it work to bring about a betrothal? The Gemara works out why not. Plus, the actual process of betrothal via "money."

Honing in on the language, specifically with regard to a girl's coming to physical majority. Plus, the question of superfluous words - with regard to letting a slave (or maidservant) go free. Also, investigating the source of betrothal taking place with money - is it logic or is it a verse?