Tankespjärn with Helena Roth

I’m so miserable when I’m in my head, Steve says, after we’ve spent some time speaking about the fascinating aspect of wintering, which also happen to be the name of a book by Katherine May, a book I highly recommend you read/listen to. Surprisingly, this is one of those audiobooks I’ve not only listened to with great enjoyment, but actually relistened to. (Have not been a big fan of audiobooks as a way for me to read, but have found a few that I truly enjoy listening to, so warming to the concept. And am an absolute fan of everyone finding whatever works for them!)

Wintering makes me feel held, recognizing myself in the manyfold stories of periods of personal winters, which may or may not fall in the physical winter period. So when I hear Steve share about two distinct different cycles he’s discovered in his life, I give him a bit of tankespjärn. What if… there’s no fixing to be done? What if these two different ways of being are simply natural cycles of (his) life? What if life isn't supposed to be 'the same' all year round? Maybe we need the cycle of forgetting, wintering, re-remembering, getting re-energized? I wonder if next time one of these in my head-cycles roll around for him, if the experience might be different? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

I know I am far from dependable when it comes to putting insights into action. Which is funny, as me being 'The Dependable One' for clients, family, friends is one of the meanders we stroll past in this, our third conversation. Turns out being dependable to others also means I am not dependable to me, habituated to put others ahead of myself and my needs.

My recent period of wintering, which has coincided with the actual winter, is one where the consequences of not caring for myself enough has become apparent in how little creative output I’ve had in the past months. I have a number of blog posts I… arghhh, I even struggle writing want to write there, feels much more like a should. Which might well be one reason why I’ve been procrastinating. Which, incidentally, is a concept I am warming to, more and more. It’s a very clear signal, and boy do I ever need clarity in signal-strength, helping me to get it, whatever it happens to be in the moment.

The Dependable-insight popped during a therapy session, followed by a question that I had no answer to. A void opened up, as I sat with it, and even now, I still don’t know the answer to it. Who am I, if I am not The Dependable one?

This, and much more in this conversation where I am certain you there will be some tankespjärn or two for you.

Links:

Steve Emery is most easily found on Color Sweet Tooth

Wintering by Katherine May

Living beautifully by Pema Chödrön

The year of bubbles for Helena

The Creative Community both me and Steve are a part of

Six Drawing Lessons by William Kentridge, and the first lesson on YouTube (to get you started)

Triggers.

A concept that’s been popping up more and more all over these past few years.

Urged to write Trigger warning or TW at the top of posts on social media, followed by a number of empty rows to make sure no one gets triggered by a question or statement or reflection on sexual assault, abortion, medical conditions, addictions, abuse and the like.

Rallying cries for trigger-safe environments, especially in academia, scare the living bejesus out of me… how can we get better at dealing with sensitive and hard topics, or, to use a term I’ve used a lot with my two compadres in Buddhas by the Roadside, sticky conversations, if we strive to remove any and all hint of them? Last time I checked practice makes perfect and you learn by doing are two proven ways to get better at things, as opposed to you learn by not-doing which I’ve never seen anyone advocate for.

At the same time, I realize that when I say it’s up to me to take responsibility for what I am triggered by, and doing the work necessary to get me better resourced to deal with it, perhaps I make it too easy? But on the other hand, whose job is it if it’s not mine? And this is valid for all aspects of my life. Because it’s my life. Not yours. I own it. It’s on me to take responsibility for it, and for honoring my boundaries, which also means I get to step away from a conversation that I am triggered by, and that I am not resourced for. But I don’t believe it to be a valid reason to shut the conversation down for everyone. That’s something completely different.

And like Izzy says:

We often try to blame someone else or something else for our things that didn't work out for us or, you know, aren’t working out for us. It's about taking that fricking responsibility for the things you do. ~Izzy

Besides this, there’s a mix of anime, podcasts (Jocko Willink, Jordan B Peterson, Esther Perel) and books (Women who run with the wolves) and a riff on the immense satisfaction available to me when I land in a group where I can dive deep into conversation. The book club’s of my Creative Community are absolutely magnificent – talk about a safe space where we are also invited and encouraged to bring our insecurities and questions, our beliefs and prejudices to the table, without fear of being hung out to dry in any way. Those types of settings are gold to me, and I hope you have them in your life too. If you don’t, make them happen. There’s a lot of tankespjärn to be had by hanging in circles where tankespjärn is par for the course. (And by listening to these meandering conversations, but that goes without saying, doesn’t it?)

Links:

Izzy can be found through RedCheeks

Crunchyroll.com for manga, anime and the likes

Run with the Wind (anime)

Esther Perel, author of the book Mating in Captivity

Jocko Willink author of the book Extreme Ownership and host of the Jocko podcast

Jocko Willink on the Tim Ferriss podcast

Diana Chapman on the Tim Ferriss Show

Three podcast episodes form the backbone of mine and Andy’s third meandering conversation. The Gentle Rebel Podcast-episode where Andy himself speaks with Sarah Santacroce about trademark, The Mythic Masculine-episode with Maya Luna about lack, adundance and trust, and how a lack of the two latter creates hoarding, and a conversation on Feel Better Live More between Rangan Chatterjee and Johann Hari where Johann shares a hearbreaking and -warming story from a Berlin council estate.

This fact in and of itself is actually proof (anecdotal as it were) of what we touch upon in one of our many meanders, pointing to the back-and-forth flow that is a part of life. Everything I take in, food, music, literature, experiences, relationships influences me and what I put out into the world. And I want you to take what you can from me, use it, share it, recreate it, get inspired by it. Imagine a world where I  d o n ‘ t  want you to use the word/concept of tankespjärn?! Wouldn’t that just be the most odd thing ever?

And at the same time, listening to Sarah share her story of a trademark-snafu (to say the least) on Andy’s podcast, really gave me food for thought. It’s just that… it feels wrong to me, to trademark, to fence in, to protect. I don’t want to live life like that, I don’t want to distrust others. But… there’s perhaps a cause for discernment here too? Or, being a subversive gentle rebel for that matter, which is where me and Andy end up after a couple of twists and turns where we provide tankespjärn to each other. Hopefully, to you too!

But. There’s more!

What of the gift economy? And even more so, how well-developed is my ability to give gifts, if a gift means that I have no expectations on the receiver. None. Which means it can be denied, if the intended receiver isn’t served by accepting it. Arghh, I don’t have to look far in my own life to find not just one, but many examples where I’ve supposedly given a gift, that I’ve arms with plenty of expectations. It’s a weaponization of sorts, one that I really want to de-arm. So I have my work cut out for me, that’s for sure.

Yeah.

It’s a good one this. (Too.)

Funnily enough I totally dropped the ball with regards to Andy’s musical album, only remembering after we’d finished talking, so I promise I will pick that one up in our next conversation, because I am so curious to hear how ‘his kids’ (i.e. the thirteen songs that chose to come to him in the fall) are faring!

Links:

Andy Mort

The Gentle Rebel podcast ‘Picking up the pieces when things fall apart (with Sarah Santacroce)’

Creative Commons

Gift Economy

Seth Godin riffs on the gift economy on AKIMBO

Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer

The Fundamentalist Podcast on gifts

The art of forgiveness

The Mythic Masculine episode with Maya Luna

Capitalism and Desire by Todd McGowan

Reddy had just returned from two weeks in the Himalayas when we sat down to talk, and this place, this majestic and mythical place, forms the centrepiece for most of our meandering conversation.

The Himalayas, the actual mountains. Huge. Solid. Immovable? Permanent?

Feels like it, at least from the perspective of a human life, which is nothing more than a blink in the longer arc of time that is earth-time, mountain-time. But like everything else, mountains also undergo transformation, along such a long arc of time than it’s hard to fathom. The Alp’s were much higher once, in their youth. Old, jagged, worn down with time. And I don’t even include any marks made by man in this aspect, simply the transformation that time warrants. Through sunshine and rain, temperature shifts and vegetation. Perhaps even a quake or two. The Himalayas are younger, a youth that is visible in their still rugged appearance. Give them another ten-twenty-thirty million years and their characteristic skyline will definitely shift from today.

Reddy had quite the experience on this journey, suffering from diarrhea as well as pulmonary issues, brought about by arrogance according to himself. But not being at his peak trekking the mountains, turned into a gift of sorts, gifted to him by the mountains themselves.

But this is but the start of our meander, which then dives deep down into the soil. Into place. I’ve lived in my house for just over 18 years now, and it feels very much as my place. But I don’t really have a deep ancestral connection to the place as such, the surroundings themselves.

The physical land that we exist on has all the connections that we seek, and the moment we lose the connection with that soil, with the place, with the land we belong to, then we're rootless. Then it doesn't matter. I could belong here. I could belong there. I could stay here. I could stay there. It really doesn't make a difference until I connect. ~Reddy

Turns out, Reddy has what he calls a native tongue that he doesn’t talk. Telugu. During our conversation, he’s rekindling a fervour for flavor, wanting to learn how to cook, and specifically learning to cook traditional dishes of his people. Odds are he’ll pick up some telugu then too, don’t you think?

This is such a deep conversation. Almost all conversations are about growth. And growth is considered as something outward. But we often miss out on the fact that growth comes from the roots that go down deep, inward, not the leaves that spread outward. ~Reddy

So give us a listen, see if this sparks your roots to go down, deep, inward. Maybe there’s some tankespjärn awaiting you there?

Links:

Reddy on Twitter (and me on Twitter)

Part of Reddy’s musings from his trip to The Himalayas

Episode #38 with Matthew and Inma on “plant people, mountain people and such”

Telugu, Reddy’s native language

Tara Wild (Daughters of the Flame)

Both me and Inma read Robin Wall Kimmerers book Braiding Sweetgrass in a reading retreat Zoom-session we attended together, and when we did, Inma said ‘This book is filled with what we’ve been talking about in our pod-conversations with Matthew’. I just started reading it, and even after only reading thirty pages, I totally get what she pointed to.

No surprise then that Robin Wall Kimmerer made her way into this, our third conversation, too, and when Matthew exclaimed “I'm all for not littering but 'leave no trace' is taking it a step to far” I am totally with him.

Humans are a part of the life inhabiting this earth, and as such, we are leaving a trace, as we should, along with everything else. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean that every trace we’re making is beneficial and appropriate, not at all, but… to go so far as to live here, thinking we are the scourge of the earth. Nah. That just doesn’t sit well with me.

In conversation in terms of ”What do we do now? What's happening? How is it gonna end? Is it going to end?” it's easy to be cynical, pessimistic, to lose hope. It looks really dire because it is.

Without discounting the gravity of what's going on in the world, in the relationship between human humans and the earth, the consequences of all our actions… Like I said, without disregarding the gravity of that, there's also space for optimism ~Matthew Word Bain

But that wasn’t where we started our conversation, recorded on January 4th. No, we started with God fortsättning, a Swedish term you’re to say when it’s no longer deemed appropriate to say Happy New Year. God fortsättning kind of translates into Happy continuation, wishing people a good time to come, after the new year has come and gone. From there, we dove into languages, accents and the attitude they carry, how we come to define and know ourselves, and how that’s related to memory, or rather, what we have forgotten about ourselves, spinning us into a long meander about how we are shaped by ourselves and our surroundings.

Like always ‘when we just step into the water together, we allow flow to emerge [so] that we can't not talk about something interesting and of substance and to have it cohere’ which Matthew said towards the end. Inma immediately agreed ‘we are able to navigate the conversation in a way where things that I'm popping on right now in my mind are going to be there somehow, even without an agenda’. It’s a treat to be a part of such meandering conversations as these, and I have a feeling you will find a piece of tankespjärn or two.

Links:

Matthew Word Bain on Medium and Instagram

Inma J Lopez, sommelier and writer on Attention

Robin Wall Kimmerer and Braiding Sweetgrass

Somatic trauma resolution therapist Kate White

Nora Bateson

Dave Snowden

Iain McGilchrist on The Coincidence of Opposites

Iain McGilchrist and The Master and his Emissary

Charles Eisenstein

Bokashi

Inspired by this (the second) conversation with Steve Emery, I just finished listening to The teachings of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda. In the book, Castaneda speaks a lot about ordinary and non-ordinary reality, something which my experiences through process-oriented therapy and Steve’s work with Internal Family Systems sure weave a colourful tapestry of (or between?) those aspects of reality.

Weird?

Yeah.

That’s the non-ordinary aspect of it.

But not less real. No less a part of reality.

But I promise, there’s more hands-on down-to-earth meanders here too. Like the question I posed when I gave an inspirational talk recently, wanting to provide a touch of tankespjärn:

What can you remove from your life, to make it richer?

One of the things I was thinking of myself when I asked this question, are all the should’s. I should do this, I shouldn’t do that…

Think about it.

Just for a minute.

What have you got in your life that adds to your list of should’s?

It might be a thing. A summer house. A boat, a fancy motorcycle, a gym card.

Or a thought. Diminishing your own self-worth, feelings of jealousy towards a colleague or best friend. Thinking you are too much. Or too little. Not enough.

Like an endless commentary on the inside, making me ask:

What’s it for? How does it serve?

I’ll wager that I am far from alone in having a pile of should’s to untangle. If nothing else, I’ve got Steve to keep me company. As strange as it might sound, we’ve both been helped along by the global Covid-pandemic, which has forced some things out of our lives. And when something is let go, it opens for other things to let come. Same here. Even if part of what’s gotten harder during the pandemic are lovely in and of themselves, like travelling for instance. When it’s not possible, or at least somewhat trickier to do, what’s available close by can be explored in ways never done before. Be it the surrounding area, cities or forests, meadows or ocean fronts, or your own interior realms, I promise there are things there that can make your life richer.

Hopefully, you’ll find some tankespjärn too.

Links:

Steve Emery is most easily found on Color Sweet Tooth

Internal Family Systems

The Storyskills workshop

You can hear Matthew Word Bain on Tankespjärn with Helena Roth too

Arnold Mindell, Process-oriented therapy with Dominic

Active imagination

Knucklebones

Carlos Castaneda and The teaching of Don Juan

Alan Watts’ Being in the Way podcast episode 8: Man and Nature

Robin Wall Kimmerer on On Being

The Creative’s Workshop aka PROn (n being the number of the specific cohort)

Jumping right in, I share my recent reading experience by Victoria Aveyard, Realm Breaker, a young adult fantasy book I really enjoyed. I prefer reading books in English for the simple reason that I enjoy sharing book quotes, and if they are in Swedish the audience is quite a lot smaller than when in English.

Being an avid reader, reading a large quota of English books, this is one reason why my English vocabulary is so well-stocked. Sitting down to write this, I made the connection to what we spend a lot of time meandering about in our conversation, namely RedCheeks, Izzy’s podcast where you can “peek behind the scenes and listen to long-form interviews with people who work with intimacy on screen.”

Izzy:

I’m super happy about this and I'm super excited for things to come because I started saying… Sorry, maybe if you have a question, go ahead and ask, because I started, like, unfolding…

Helena:

Unfold! That's the whole purpose of these conversations. For you to unfold or for us to unfold.

‘So.

Intimacy on screen’, you say.

Yup. The very one. That’s what RedCheeks is all about… except… both me and Izzy agree wholeheartedly that questions relevant to broach when it comes to intimacy on a movie set, are as relevant when it comes to intimacy  e v e r y w h e r e !

What am I ok with? What do I feel comfortable doing, or receiving? What do I like? What do I want? And how do I want it? Where’s my boundaries? What am I consenting to? And what about you? How can we keep an ongoing conversation about consent flowing?

Beauty is in discovering all these things about the person you are with. Talking with them, diving deep and just exploring things together. ~Izzy

‘And how does this connect to expanding my English vocabulary through reading’, you ask, scratching your head, somewhat confused…

Well. Simply by having the conversation, asking the question(s), pondering my answer or the answer of my partner, I am expanding my intimacy vocabulary, aren’t I? And that’s a vocabulary that I can carry with me everywhere, because intimacy sure is so much more than bodies naked together in a bed, isn’t it?

I invite you to dive deep into intimacy with me and Izzy here. I’d be very surprised if there wasn’t at least one or two moments of genuine tankespjärn for you here.

Links:

Realm Breaker by Victoria Aveyard, a Young Adult fantasy book

Steve Emery, another meandering conversation-partner of mine

Five Corners at Lilith Performance Studio

RedCheeks podcast episode with a sex worker

Maria Appelqvist Ph.D.

Creativity, a form of parenting.

If I were to describe this conversation with Andy Mort, that would be it. How creativity is a form of parenting. With the birth of a creative output of some kind, be it music, writings, art or any number of other possible ‘babies’. Tending to a newborn, quite fragile, needing a lot of attention and care, incapable of caring for itself.

‘Advancing the songs that I talked about last time, which had come out of nowhere and are now growing up very fast, like good little children.’ ~Andy Mort

Before you know it the toddler starts to explore the world, going farther and farther from mother and/or father, becoming a child, a teen, getting ready to go it alone, but still needing that steady rock that a parent (hopefully) is. There, always and already there for one’s child. Suddenly, the day comes when the kid is no longer a kid but a young adult, ready to leave the nest and go out into the world on its own.

‘[…] that would be trying to force a newborn baby to talk or walk before they've naturally got to that place in their development.’ ~Andy Mort

Last time we talked, Andy had just given birth to thirteen songs, and this time, he’s spent some time putting rhythm and a bit of vocals to them, close to having fully formed demo’s, to quote him.

Thing is, when you are busy with a newborn creation (Andy’s thirteen songs, my current project The Book on Fear), it’s so easy to evict the budding teen’s of one’s creative output way before they are ready to stand on their own legs. For Andy, The Return to Serenity Island, a stand-alone-course he set up in the spring. For me, Doing Gentle with an Edge, the e- and audiobook released in the spring.

But then what? Busy with creative newborns, we are very slack parents for our teens. They also need attention (read: marketing, appreciation, being mentioned and introduced to new acquaintances and so on), more than we both give them.

If you are a creative giving birth to creative endeavours outputs, babies of any kind, do you recognise yourself in this analogy? If so, I am betting on you finding a few pieces of tankespjärn here. And if you don’t view yourself as a creative, hm… What if, just maybe, you actually are?

Links:

Andy Mort

The Return to Serenity Island

The intention of a more conscious life, digital and analog

Sudbury schools

Episode 33. The entanglement of grief and gift | with Inma & Matthew

The Creative’s Workshop

Sandra Koenig, my Supercoach Academy colleague from 2014

Doing Gentle with an Edge, the e/audiobook

Reddy showed up in snazzy glasses and a newly painted background wall which set off off in this three-hour conversation. It also inspired me to put on a tiara I’d recently fallen in love with. And I almost don’t know how to even approach that… wearing a tiara is, no, has been, so far away from who I am, or at least from whom I think I am. And then, invited to put one on when I met up with my three wives (long story that one, suffice it to say these are three ladies very dear to my heart. We all have a shared bond that goes deep, and I know that we all know that we are all there for each other.) for a spa-day together, not only did I like what I saw when wearing it, it made me feel good.

“Play is something that cuts across boundaries, borders, cultures, religions, ages, hierarchy, status.” ~Reddy

Invited to play (I mean, putting on a tiara for crying out loud?!), I accepted the invite and all of a sudden, am transformed by the experience! Who knew I am a person who loves wearing a tiara? I sure didn’t, but I am so thrilled to have met that certain someone within me who does. Tiara-lady is certainly part of my crew of Superheroes, which also is something we spend quite a lot of time talking about.

“The individualism involved in dressing up is something I feel is almost lost to most people.” ~Reddy

Part of the reason the tiara clicked for me is how perfectly it matches my beloved GoT-poncho, a poncho I knitted while binge-watching the entire series, and have worn almost on a daily basis ever since. But more than that, it affects my entire physical presence. I have to sit up straight in it, as it’s a tad too big for my head and would fall off otherwise (now I know why royals walk with that regal air!). It’s not uncomfortable though. It’s fun. It makes me experience life from a different outlook than when I don’t have it on.

After me and Reddy had finished recording our marathon-long podcast episode, I had a Teams-meeting with two colleagues, and… I debated whether or not to continue wearing the tiara or not, and… surprise surprise (or not?!) I did. Logging on to Teams I heard one of my colleagues, both of whom I’ve worked closely with for the past year and a half, say “You’re all dressed up, Helena. Looking good in your tiara!”. They know me well, quirks and all, that’s for sure. And I love that!

So, playtime it is, take a listen and let me know what was the biggest piece of tankespjärn for you in this episode!

Links:

Reddy on Twitter (and me on Twitter)

Nudges of intuition

Gabor Maté on Under the skin with Russel Brand

All the times when I’ve forgotten to bring a cassette or find out there's nothing in the machine, or I forget a push record, it's always like, oh, that was the most precious thing that you could ever have recorded.

And I think of it like libations, like the original Greek notion of libations of this sacrificial offering. We use libations in terms of drinking, but that's just an adulteration of the original meaning, where you'd pour wine into the ocean or onto the sand just as you would sacrifice the thigh bones and stuff. I always think of it like libations to the recording gods. ~Matthew

Yeah, don’t I ever know it. And I am sure you do too. Perhaps for recording, perhaps in not managing to take a photograph of a perfect moment, or…

The quality of conversation I had with Alison and Gary of season one, before this pod-series was in the process, had me thinking more than once that I so wished we’d been recording. The wisdom, love and respect and insights shared… libations to the recording gods, for sure.

After me, Matthew and Inma finished talking about not recording the best conversations, we meandered around grief and gifts for the better part of the rest of the conversation.

The embodiment reaction of them both. The similarity of sensation in the body as they engulf you. The gift of memories arising again through grieving. How grief and gift, or sorrow and joy, go hand in hand, in harmony with one another, like two sides to a coin, rather than opposites.

Can you feel the mass of unresolved grief carried both individually and collectively in our society, a mass that’s only ever growing that Matthew speaks to? And what if… if we, if I, learn to grieve, to be with grief, perhaps there’s an opportunity there? What might open up for us all in learning to grieve on a culture-wide basis? Like the release of disharmony of two notes sung, two notes just next to each other, causing tension, before, at long last, being released into a more harmonious coupling? Might that release be experienced on a more collective level? Who knows.

I invite you to step into the world of grief and gifts, and be assured there’s some tankespjärn for you here, this time around too.

Matthew Word Bain on Medium and Instagram

Inma J Lopez, sommelier and write on Attention

https://www.sheldrake.org/audios/the-sheldrake-mckenna-abraham-trialogues

Jeremy Irons reads The Alchemist

The Art of Is and Free Play by Stephen Nachmanovitch

The Trialogues with McKenna, Abraham and Sheldrake

Iain McGilchrist on The Coincidence of Opposites

Iain McGilchrist and The Master and his Emissary

Tankespjärn community

Martín Prechtel

Jean Vanier on On Being in ’The Wisdom of Tenderness’