Have tech companies become more powerful than governments? As the size and reach of firms like Google and Apple have increased, there is growing concern that these multi-trillion dollar companies are too powerful and have started replacing important government functions.

The products and services of these tech giants are ubiquitous and pillars of modern life. Governments and businesses increasingly rely on cloud services like Microsoft Azure and Amazon Web Services to function. Elon Musk's Starlink has provided internet access in the flood zones of North Carolina and the battlefields of Ukraine. Firms like Palantir are integrating cutting-edge AI into national defense systems.

In response to these rapid changes, and resulting concerns, regulators in Europe and the U.S. have proposed various measures—from antitrust actions to new legislation like the EU's AI Act. Critics warn  that overzealous regulation could stifle the very innovation that has driven economic growth and technological advancement, potentially ceding Western tech leadership to China. Others, like our guest, argue that these actions to rein in tech don’t go nearly far enough, and that governments must do more to take back the power she says that tech companies have taken from nation states.

Evan and Luke are joined by Marietje Schaake, a former MEP and current fellow at Stanford’s Cyber Policy Center. She is the author of The Tech Coup: How to Save Democracy from Silicon Valley. You can read her op-ed in Foreign Affairs summarizing the book.