Is uploading a documentary to YouTube really a route to serious money? At the TellyCast Digital Content Forum 2025, Lucy Smith (Fawkes Digital) chairs a panel of factual specialists working across the creator economy: Gerrit Kemming (founder and MD, Quintus Studios), Marvin Benoit (founder, Baker's Dozen Studios, former commissioning editor at Sky Originals and creative executive at YouTube Originals) and Jamie MacDonald (head of originals, After Party Studios).

The panel gets into what actually separates people who own audience from people who own IP, and why that distinction now shapes how factual programming gets funded, made and sold. Kemming explains why Quintus deliberately built its own YouTube audience rather than staying a pure distributor, and how that audience now replaces two or three pre-sale partners on a co-production. Benoit and MacDonald discuss splitting IP between production companies and creators, using Don't Get Catfish as a case study, and why "collaborate or evaporate" is becoming the operating principle for factual production.

Other topics covered: patchwork financing and moving beyond broadcaster-only development; which factual genres actually monetise well and why territory affects CPM; using digital platforms to trial and prove IP cheaply before scaling budget; the risk of creator talent not porting successfully across platforms; and what traditional broadcasters stand to lose by not competing in this space.

Recorded at BFI Southbank as part of the TellyCast Digital Content Forum 2025.

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Ahead of the TellyCast Digital Content Forum returning to BFI Southbank on 5 November, we're revisiting one of last year's standout sessions.

Daniel Winner chairs a conversation with three of the most active investors in creator and social video businesses in the UK: Indi Sunner of Lunar X, Jason Kingston-Brown of Viewture, and Claire Geddie of Electrify Video Partners.

They discuss why institutional capital has replaced vanity investing in this space, what makes a YouTube-first business investible, how valuations are actually calculated, why the "thousand true fans" model has overtaken subscriber count as the metric that matters, and what founders need in place before they raise.

Watch the panel session

Recorded live at the TellyCast Digital Content Forum 2025.

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Emma Walker founded Curly Media in January 2022, after deciding she did not want to spend her career in a television industry that was contracting around her. Three and a half years on, the agency has made Spotify's Wrapped campaign in the UK, Sky's Danny Dyer lookalike contest, video podcasts for Netflix and work for Nike and BBC Studios.

She joins Justin Crosby to explain the commercial logic that took her straight to brands. Brand money was already paying for television through ad breaks, so the question was never whether brands would fund content, only who they would fund it through. What follows is a practical account of how that money actually moves: which departments hold which budgets, why social, PR, marketing and out of home teams need to be treated as one conversation rather than several, and why understanding a client's internal politics matters as much as the creative work.

Emma takes us inside the Spotify Wrapped UK film, built around twelve artists and twelve scenes, each designed to stand alone so every artist could post their own moment. She explains the cultural nods that carried it, the ITV ad break takeover that put it in front of an audience that never sees TikTok, and the world building approach Curly now applies to every campaign, where a single hour on set produces assets that all belong to the same universe.

We also cover the economics. Project fees against retainers, the absence of an IP tail in branded work, and what changes when a business can finally see a few months of runway. Emma discusses hiring Jade Green out of Spotify's social marketing team, why brand side experience is now a competitive advantage for a production business, and a newly greenlit project that points somewhere genuinely new: a scripted mini series, brand funded, but commissioned by a broadcaster who keeps editorial control.

Plus the Disney and TikTok deal, a viral friendship between a monkey and a Buddhist nun, and who is going in the bin this week.

(00:00) Introduction 

(00:57) Founding Curly Media and being a chameleon business 

(02:50) The first commission and why podcasts were the way in 

(03:30) "I don't love podcasts": moving from audio to video 

(05:00) From video podcasts to branded social storytelling 

(06:00) Why branded entertainment works best when content leads 

(06:40) Brand money was already funding television 

(09:00) Where brand budgets sit and how to navigate departments 

(12:00) Sky's Danny Dyer lookalike contest and 10 million organic views 

(15:40) Making Spotify Wrapped UK 

(18:30) Cultural nods, bus auntie and building for the feed 

(21:00) The ITV ad break takeover and designing scenes to stand alone 

(23:00) World building: one shoot, one universe, many assets 

(24:40) Hiring Jade Green from Spotify and why brand side experience matters (28:45) A brand funded scripted series with broadcaster editorial control 

(30:30) Project fees, retainers and life without IP 

(32:40) What comes next and what producers can learn from creators 

(34:00) Story of the week: Disney and TikTok 

(36:20) Hero of the week 

(37:50) Get in the bin

TellyCast is the podcast about the business of digital-first video, hosted by Justin Crosby. Produced by Spirit Studios and recorded in London.

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/85nAhf1oAIY

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Three years after ex-LADbible executives Ben Powell-Jones and Thom Gulseven launched Strong Watch Studios with backing from Hat Trick Productions' Jimmy Mulville, the digital-first studio is delivering for Channel 4, the BBC and Netflix - and has just hired two senior TV executives to help it do more. 

This week on TellyCast, Justin Crosby is joined by co-founder Ben Powell-Jones for his first solo appearance on the show, to talk through how Strong Watch actually works: the strategy-first pitch that won Channel 4's A Comedy Thing, why the studio calls itself a content company rather than a digital one, and why Ben believes TV and digital commissioning are converging into a single industry — content distribution.

The conversation also covers Strong Watch's expanding slate, including last year's Sidemen series three for Netflix and the Pluto TV FAST deal for its own factual series People Are Deep, why Ben thinks the creator economy is giving way to a "community economy" built on platforms like Patreon and Substack, and where AI fits — and doesn't — in the studio's workflow.

Inside this episode:

• Why Jimmy Mulville backed Strong Watch Studios, and how the deal came together
• Hiring senior TV executives Adam Reeve and Helen Gordon into a digital-first structure
• The strategy-first pitch behind Channel 4's A Comedy Thing, and who owns what
• Why TV and digital commissioning are merging into one "content distribution" industry
• Content acquisition, TFI Friday and Piers Morgan's Uncensored playbook
• Taking People Are Deep from YouTube to Pluto TV and FAST channels
• What LADbible's pandemic-era data taught Ben about stripping out "creative ego"
• The shift from creator economy to "community economy," and what Time Team's Patreon success reveals
• Why Strong Watch uses AI everywhere except in the content itself
• Story of the Week
• Hero of the Week
• Get in the Bin

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Recorded on the ground at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity, this Cannes special closes the current series of TellyCast before the summer break. Host Justin Crosby meets three guests working at the point where advertising, entertainment and technology now converge.

Jason Day, Head of EMEA at Luma AI, explains how the company is unifying multiple video and image models into a single creative platform, why he believes the technology has moved ahead of consumer expectations, and how brands are building AI capability in-house rather than outsourcing it. He also discusses Luma Agents and the Moses drama series produced with Wonder Project and Amazon Prime.

Will Scougal, EVP of Brand and Commercial Partnerships at ITV Studios' Studio 55, unpacks Double Date Island, the TikTok-first dating format built with Tinder and OMD. He sets out why ITV Studios is bringing broadcast-grade IP and creator craft to brands, and why production groups are still rare at Cannes.

Emma Hardie Commercial and Brand Director at Aardman, marks 50 years of the studio with a look at how Shaun the Sheep, Wallace and Gromit and a forthcoming Pokémon series translate into brand partnerships, gaming, Roblox and live experiences, from a Japanese farmhouse recreation to Feathers McGraw tattoos in China.

TellyCast returns in September, with the Digital Content Forum taking place in London on 5 November. Explore the back catalogue of more than 270 shows, plus recent content from the studio and events, on the TellyCast YouTube channel.

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What does it take to build one of the UK’s most successful branded entertainment franchises?

This week on TellyCast, Justin Crosby is joined by Mark Rivers, co-founder of Cold Glass Productions, the company behind the award-winning Dish from Waitrose podcast and video series.

Mark shares the remarkable story behind the show’s growth from a bold business plan into a billion-view entertainment brand, why Cold Glass doesn’t think of itself as a podcast company, and how premium digital entertainment is reshaping the production landscape.

They discuss:

• Why podcasting is now an entertainment business, not an audio business
• Building Dish from Waitrose into one of the UK’s biggest branded content success stories
• Creating different edits for YouTube and Spotify audiences
• The importance of quality in an increasingly crowded podcast market
• Working with A-list talent including Dave Grohl, Emilia Clarke and Louis Theroux
• Why distribution strategy should be developed alongside creative
• Cold Glass Productions’ new original series Outside In
• Subscription, Substack and the future of creator-led media businesses
• How TV production companies can learn from digital-first entertainment brands

If you’re interested in the future of podcasts, branded entertainment, YouTube strategy or the convergence of television and digital media, this episode is essential listening.

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What does it really take to build a production company for the creator economy?

This week on TellyCast, Justin Crosby is joined by production strategist Bryony Hopkins, founder of BRYONY Ink, whose career spans the BBC, LADbible Group, Strong Watch Studios and FlightStory.

Bryony has spent years designing production systems for creator businesses, broadcasters and digital-first studios, helping teams make premium content on lean budgets without sacrificing quality.

The conversation explores why traditional TV production models often struggle in digital, how creators are building media companies, and why operational excellence is becoming a competitive advantage.

Topics include:

• Building production infrastructure for digital-first studios
• Why mindset matters as much as production skills
• Creating more content from every shoot day
• Scaling creator businesses sustainably
• The future of duty of care in the creator economy
• AI tools transforming production workflows
• Why TV professionals have valuable skills the creator economy needs
• Protecting creators while producing ambitious content
• The professionalisation of creator-led media businesses

Whether you’re a TV producer, production executive, creator, commissioner or studio founder, this episode is packed with practical insights into how production is evolving in the digital-first era.

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This week on TellyCast, Justin Crosby is joined by Peter White, Executive Editor at  Deadline⁠, for a wide-ranging conversation covering the biggest issues facing the global content business.

Peter shares his perspective from Los Angeles on the changing fortunes of Hollywood, the impact of YouTube on traditional television, the future of late-night programming following Stephen Colbert’s departure from CBS, the economics of streaming, and why production companies need to rethink how they make and monetise content.

The discussion explores major industry developments including the Paramount-Skydance deal, the rise of creator-led content, YouTube’s growing dominance in the attention economy, the future of unscripted television, and whether vertical drama is genuinely the next big thing or simply the latest industry fad.

Peter also explains why he believes the next generation of media talent will emerge from YouTube rather than traditional television, reveals why Deadline has expanded into live events, and shares his thoughts on the future relationship between creators, broadcasters and streamers.

A candid and insightful conversation about where television, social video and the wider creator economy are heading next.

In this episode:

• Is Hollywood really in crisis?
 • Why YouTube is winning the attention war
 • The future of late-night television after Stephen Colbert
 • The Paramount-Skydance merger and industry consolidation
 • Why production companies must reduce costs
 • Creator-led content versus traditional TV models
 • The rise of YouTube-first entertainment
 • Why Peter is sceptical about vertical drama
 • How Deadline is adapting to a changing media landscape
 • The future of TV, streaming and social video

TellyCast is the podcast exploring the future of television, social video and the creator economy.

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What happens when two experienced television producers decide to leave the traditional TV industry and build a digital-first business from scratch?

In this episode of TellyCast, Justin Crosby sits down with Pete Campion, Co-Founder of IndyStudios, to explore how he and former BBC producer Matt Ramsden have made the leap from broadcast television into the creator economy.

Pete spent more than two decades producing large-scale international factual series, including the hugely successful Gold Rush franchise. But as the economics of traditional television became increasingly challenging, he saw an opportunity to apply those storytelling skills to YouTube, digital channels and AI-powered content.

The conversation explores the realities of building a digital-first production company, why TV producers should have confidence in their storytelling skills, how Indie Studios is developing original YouTube channels, and why AI is creating entirely new opportunities for factual storytelling.

Pete also discusses audience behaviour on YouTube, the importance of owning intellectual property, collaborating with creators, working with brands, and the lessons traditional production companies need to learn if they want to succeed in the new production economy.

Elsewhere, Justin and Pete discuss the future of reality television, duty of care in content production, the opportunities for experienced TV producers in social video, and why storytelling remains the most valuable skill in any medium.

Whether you’re a producer, creator, commissioner, studio executive or media entrepreneur, this episode offers a fascinating insight into how one production company is navigating the transition from television to digital-first content.

Key Topics

• Building IndyStudios after redundancy from traditional TV
 • Why experienced TV producers are moving into digital-first content
 • Gold mining channels and niche audience strategies
 • Working with creators and athletes
 • The opportunities and risks of AI-generated storytelling
 • Legends of Gold and AI-powered factual content
 • What TV producers can learn from YouTube creators
 • Audience-first storytelling versus commissioner-led development
 • Duty of care in digital production
 • The future of independent production companies

Episode Highlights

• Pete’s journey from Gold Rush to founding IndyStudios
 • Why “storytelling will win” regardless of technology changes
 • How AI is unlocking previously impossible factual stories
 • Building owned IP instead of relying on commissions
 • Lessons learned from publishing on YouTube
 • The biggest mindset shifts TV producers need to make
 • Why collaboration is essential for traditional indies entering digital

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This week on TellyCast, Justin Crosby is joined by Naomi Channell, Head of Podcasts at Curve Media and creator of some of the UK’s fastest-growing true crime podcasts.

Naomi shares her journey from a 20-year career in television production to building a portfolio of hit podcast brands that now attract more than a million monthly listeners across audio and video platforms.

The conversation explores how Naomi developed her first podcast around the Stuart Lubbock case, why empathy and trust have become central to her approach to true crime storytelling, and how Curve Media has embraced podcasting as a serious digital-first business opportunity.

Naomi also reveals how shows such as The Affair and Totally True Crime have found audiences on Spotify, discusses the realities of podcast monetisation, and explains why TV production companies should be thinking about podcasts, communities, live events, books and platform licensing as part of a broader IP strategy.

If you’re interested in podcasting, digital-first content, social video, audience building or the future of media businesses, this is an essential listen.

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